Poll

Benitez approval rating

Still behind him 100%
Behind him but losing faith
Undecided
He's on borrowed time
We should sack him (PS: wanna buy this match ticket so I can keep my loyalty points going?)

Author Topic: Rafael Benítez  (Read 764800 times)

neesy111, Scoreboard82, M1tche, janu, gekkotime and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline covmag

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14225 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 11:10:33 pm »
Agree.52,000 will still rock up.not knowing why they are there
Ashley please just f*** off

Offline Ankles Bennett

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14226 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 11:46:11 pm »
:lol: he won't.

It'll still be full.
More fool them then.  Half full won't cut it for AS and the FCB.

Offline Chris_R

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14227 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 11:59:36 pm »
If that was the case... They wouldn't still be talking.

Why do people persist with this?

Things we know for certain:

- Rafa's a consummate professional who always honours his contract
- Rafa is presently under contract

Given the above, if you're employed by someone and they ask you to go to a meeting, you go. If they ask you to come back tomorrow, you come back tomorrow. Anything else is breach of contract and Rafa will not do that, we know this. He'll go to every meeting he's invited to, he'll listen to everything said to him. That doesn't mean for one instant that he'll sign anything at the end of it. He'd be mad to, and another thing we know about Rafa is he's clearly not mad.

He will continue to attend every meeting the club ask him to, because that's his job and he's been asked to attend these meetings by his bosses. To read anything more in to that is crazy, to suggest that him still attending meetings is a positive is just delusional.

I absolutely hope I'm wrong, Rafa is the best thing about the club at the moment, the only thing that keeps me even remotely interested. But he will leave this summer, I'm as sure as I can be about that.

Offline toontownman

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14228 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 12:04:43 am »
If that was the case... They wouldn't still be talking.
Exactly this. Doesn't mean it still wont end with him walking but still talking means there is willingness and something to talk about...

..hopefully not severance lol.
Chris Hughton, simply the best manager we had from 2009-2010.

Offline Chris_R

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14229 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 12:07:10 am »
If that was the case... They wouldn't still be talking.
Exactly this. Doesn't mean it still wont end with him walking but still talking means there is willingness and something to talk about...

..hopefully not severance lol.

It absolutely doesn't. It just means he's doing what his bosses ask him to do whilst still under contract.

Of course it doesn't mean there's NOT something to sort out either, but you simply cannot read into continued dialogue the things you're trying to. He's simply going to meetings his bosses have asked him to attend. Knowing him as we do, how can he not?

Offline marki

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14230 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 12:45:45 am »
after 2 days of talks i think rafa will know if he,s staying or going by now ,its just the fans that dont know whether there coming or going  :azn:

Offline LV

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14231 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 12:47:56 am »
after 2 days of talks i think rafa will know if he,s staying or going by now ,its just the fans that dont know whether there coming or going  :azn:

I’ll definitely be coming if he stays.

Offline tmonkey

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14232 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 12:54:20 am »
If that was the case... They wouldn't still be talking.

Why do people persist with this?

Things we know for certain:

- Rafa's a consummate professional who always honours his contract
- Rafa is presently under contract

Given the above, if you're employed by someone and they ask you to go to a meeting, you go. If they ask you to come back tomorrow, you come back tomorrow. Anything else is breach of contract and Rafa will not do that, we know this. He'll go to every meeting he's invited to, he'll listen to everything said to him. That doesn't mean for one instant that he'll sign anything at the end of it. He'd be mad to, and another thing we know about Rafa is he's clearly not mad.

He will continue to attend every meeting the club ask him to, because that's his job and he's been asked to attend these meetings by his bosses. To read anything more in to that is crazy, to suggest that him still attending meetings is a positive is just delusional.

I absolutely hope I'm wrong, Rafa is the best thing about the club at the moment, the only thing that keeps me even remotely interested. But he will leave this summer, I'm as sure as I can be about that.

His contract allowed him to walk away for free some time after February I think it was. Or at least that's what was reported.

Offline Chris_R

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14233 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 01:09:13 am »

His contract allowed him to walk away for free some time after February I think it was. Or at least that's what was reported.

So?

He always sees out his contracts. We know this about him. He could have walked away at any point for a fee, maybe from February for no fee. But he would never do either, it's not what he does. He was always going to be our manager until the day his contract expired, unless he was sacked. That remains the case, and he'll conduct himself with the utmost decorum and professionalism until that day comes. If that includes going to pointless meetings with fatso, then that's what he'll do because that's the man he is.

To attempt to read anything in to him continuing to do what he has always done at every club is to completely missjudge the entire essence of Rafa Benitez. That said, I get why people are doing that, we all want to believe. Me included. But let's be realistic here, Rafa is just being Rafa here, there's nothing we can read into his continued attendance of meetings and failure to say "f*** it" and stomp off.

Offline tmonkey

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14234 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 03:47:33 am »

His contract allowed him to walk away for free some time after February I think it was. Or at least that's what was reported.

So?

He always sees out his contracts. We know this about him.He could have walked away at any point for a fee, maybe from February for no fee. But he would never do either, it's not what he does. He was always going to be our manager until the day his contract expired, unless he was sacked. That remains the case, and he'll conduct himself with the utmost decorum and professionalism until that day comes. If that includes going to pointless meetings with fatso, then that's what he'll do because that's the man he is.

To attempt to read anything in to him continuing to do what he has always done at every club is to completely missjudge the entire essence of Rafa Benitez. That said, I get why people are doing that, we all want to believe. Me included. But let's be realistic here, Rafa is just being Rafa here, there's nothing we can read into his continued attendance of meetings and failure to say "f*** it" and stomp off.

That's a very specific set of (what I presume to be) assumptions though given this scenario is very specific. I've always thought that the whole "seeing your contract through" concept in football related to finishing the season as opposed to working right up until the actual date on the contract.

Unless they're not assumptions, and in the past Rafa was at a club where the season has finished (i.e. "job done" from his viewpoint) just before his contract expires, and the Board had said they didn't want him to stay because they didn't share his vision, and his contract still had a few weeks remaining, and the same contract allowed him to walk with no fees/penalties from that point onwards, Rafa had stayed regardless till he had hit that original expiry date in the contract?

If so, or if there's a quote from him saying "I won't leave a job till the contract date has expired no matter what, even if they want me to go", then fair enough. If there's nothing of the sort from Rafa's past, and you are just assuming based on his character, then just to clarify I'm not stating your argument [that these talks could be worthless and he's just seeing the contract out because he's a man of principle] is wrong. I'm saying maybe it's 50% likely that you're right, but that there's a 50% chance that you're not, i.e. Rafa views it as "job done", he's seen his contract through in terms of the spirit of the contract, and he'd not be hanging around meeting with a filibustering Ashley if his time was being wasted.

There's also the possibility that if Ashley was wasting Rafa's time, Rafa could just head back up to his office in St James' (as opposed to quitting) because it's not like he'll have a contract clause saying "if the owner wants to meet with you in X location for X days, you must always attend, or else". This is a multi-millionaire widely respect/experienced/successful football manager, not your average office lackey who'll jump if the boss tells him to. He's a headstrong and confident man who is also on a contract that is about to expire where (presumably) both parties can terminate with no cost, so heading back to the club instead of staying in pointless meetings would have no actual consequences (at worst Ashley would terminate Rafa's contract). I'm not quite sure he'd just put up with Ashley pissing him about for 4 days straight in an office in London just because he's a nice guy who won't walk away from a job. Maybe he is, I just don't see it as a certainty. And yes, this does give some hope.

Online neesy111

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14235 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 03:48:38 am »
Absolutely comical a manager who WANTS to stay at NUFC is this close towards the end of his contract.

Offline covmag

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14236 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 06:48:24 am »
Dunno if this deserves a thread on it's own.
Question...
If Rafa goes are you still gonna go and renew?

Me..definitely NOT

I'm not being a petulant child I just see no point in supporting a club run like this.
Ashley please just f*** off

Offline Cronky

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14237 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 07:56:26 am »
It's hard to see how this is going to get resolved. It's not as though each party was unaware of the other's basic position before the meetings started.

I suspect that Rafa has a genuine vision whereby if there is investment that brings the squad up to, say, a Leicester / Everton like level, he would be able to over achieve from then on. With the crowd behind the team at home, and Rafa's ability to organise a defensive performance away, we could do very well.

The stumbling block is probably this idea of a one-off investment which brings the squad to a certain point, and thereafter becomes self-sustaining. Generally speaking, that doesn't seem to work in the Premiership. Once you start spending, you usually have to continue spending to maintain position. It's difficult in practice to reach the kind of 'plateau' that the strategy suggests.

What Rafa has to do is sell the idea that his idea is the exception, and that in the case of our particular club with him as the particular manager, it will all work. Rafa believes in it for sure.

Ashley's view - and don't shoot the messenger - is that he saved the club from administration and financial collapse, and he's not willing to put any more of his own money in.

Is he going to blink first? I've really no idea. Rafa's vision makes sense, but Ashley can be a very tough nut to crack.
People generalise too much.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14238 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:13:07 am »
and he's not willing to put any more of his own money in.

:anguish:
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline chopey

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14239 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:17:39 am »
Ashley will take another £33 million this year

Offline ExiledGeordie

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14240 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:26:41 am »
It's hard to see how this is going to get resolved. It's not as though each party was unaware of the other's basic position before the meetings started.

I suspect that Rafa has a genuine vision whereby if there is investment that brings the squad up to, say, a Leicester / Everton like level, he would be able to over achieve from then on. With the crowd behind the team at home, and Rafa's ability to organise a defensive performance away, we could do very well.

The stumbling block is probably this idea of a one-off investment which brings the squad to a certain point, and thereafter becomes self-sustaining. Generally speaking, that doesn't seem to work in the Premiership. Once you start spending, you usually have to continue spending to maintain position. It's difficult in practice to reach the kind of 'plateau' that the strategy suggests.

What Rafa has to do is sell the idea that his idea is the exception, and that in the case of our particular club with him as the particular manager, it will all work. Rafa believes in it for sure.

Ashley's view - and don't shoot the messenger - is that he saved the club from administration and financial collapse, and he's not willing to put any more of his own money in.

Is he going to blink first? I've really no idea. Rafa's vision makes sense, but Ashley can be a very tough nut to crack.

Or maybe Rafa can convince Ashley in so many words that’s he’s f***ed if he brings some two bob manager in because he’s going to have to spend anyway and there’ll be the threat of relegation. Rafa guarantees Prem status and with just a modicum of change in terms of ambition and spend the manager and fans will be relatively happy. Ashley is such a stubborn fuckwit though god knows what he’ll do.

Offline chopey

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14241 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:30:52 am »
That's the major problem tho, Ashley does not want success, he wants his place on the Premier league gravy train as cheaply as possible and nothing else, the fact is that he has told us this several times
« Last Edit: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:59:42 am by chopey »

Offline dtd

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14242 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 08:36:48 am »
A manager of Rafa’s stature and quality actively wanting to stay at this two-bit excuse of a football club, and you’ve got these two knackers actively trying to f*** things up. Some people don’t know when they’ve got a good thing.

If he goes, just burn the thing to the ground.
"What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love." - Sir Bobby Robson

Offline Scoot

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14243 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 09:28:09 am »
Dunno if this deserves a thread on it's own.
Question...
If Rafa goes are you still gonna go and renew?

Me..definitely NOT

I'm not being a petulant child I just see no point in supporting a club run like this.

I renew in March so I'm already in for next season. Paid it all in 1.

Bought it totally in the hope that Rafa stays.

Offline chopey

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14244 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 09:43:25 am »
Rafa to Juve

Hughes to NUFC

Offline Menace

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  • If only.
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14245 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 09:59:08 am »
Hughton to Juve

Allegri to Brighton
Quote from: Sunderland Fan
We are always second best to them, always.

Offline Danh1

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Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14246 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 10:06:14 am »
Dunno if this deserves a thread on it's own.
Question...
If Rafa goes are you still gonna go and renew?

Me..definitely NOT

I'm not being a petulant child I just see no point in supporting a club run like this.

Not a chance, it’s more than Rafa. If Rafa goes then it is further proof (not that any was needed like) that the club has 0 ambition. Rather spend £630 a year on something else.

Offline Sir Toon

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  • If Ashley is the answer, what is the question?
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14247 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 11:07:52 am »
Wouldn't be surprised if we hear nowt until the end of June or anything at all because if Rafa doesn't sign a new deal then the default plan for Ashley's NUFC is to do nowt, say nowt and hope things sort themselves out.

One thing is certain, Ashley has never been interested in bettering the football club and wont start now.

Online godzilla

  • General Member
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14248 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 11:11:02 am »
Wouldn't be surprised if we hear nowt until the end of June or anything at all because if Rafa doesn't sign a new deal then the default plan for Ashley's NUFC is to do nowt, say nowt and hope things sort themselves out.

One thing is certain, Ashley has never been interested in bettering the football club and wont start now.

Think if there is no deal then Rafa would possibly make an announcement to that effect (or make sure the press do it for him) as he has too much respect for the fans.

Offline Sir Toon

  • General Member
  • If Ashley is the answer, what is the question?
Re: Rafael Benítez
« Reply #14249 on: Saturday 18 May 2019, 11:19:41 am »
Hopefully he hasn't signed any legal documents to stop him telling it like it is but with Keegan's court case win and his ESPN reveal, we all know the score anyway. Question is, how much longer is this s*** going to go on for?