Topic: Elon Musk

[BlufPurdi]

Read this a few months ago:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/02/elon-musk-responds-to-claims-of-low-pay-injuries-and-anti-union-policies-at-tesla-plant/

Sounds like just another rich t***.  But hey, he likes space and technology.

[neesy111]

Read this a few months ago:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/02/elon-musk-responds-to-claims-of-low-pay-injuries-and-anti-union-policies-at-tesla-plant/

Sounds like just another rich t***.  But hey, he likes space and technology.

Yeah because everything you read on the internet is true.....

[BlufPurdi]

Touchy.

[BlufPurdi]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk-tesla-wages-apology

Better?

Or is this just "the internet" talking again?

EDIT: 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

http://fortune.com/2017/02/26/elon-musk-tesla-union-claims/

[Nobody]

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html
Long read, but absolutely worth it.

[pbxtn]

Musk is pretty much my one hope for humanity right now, can't believe anyone can criticise the man for trying to drag the human race forward.

[BlufPurdi]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions, as I (and generally all of you) would with any other.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

[Toondave]

I think, unless he's pulled the wool over my eyes, the difference is that his motivations are a lot different to most people like Jobs'. Jobs was just a t*** who would've exploited his grandmother for profit, whereas musk would exploit his grandmother if it would benefit mankind.

Obviously that is of little comfort to those working under such conditions but still 

[pbxtn]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

Sure, a lot of people who he employs don't like him, I've read his book, he doesn't tolerate people who don't work as hard as he does. He knows what he wants and runs people into the ground in an attempt to turn his ideas into reality.

[54]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions, as I (and generally all of you) would with any other.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

From everything i've seen about him, he does actually seen like a decent person tbh, does a fair bit for charity from what I remember.

[firetotheworks]

Jobs was a massive c***, like. The love for him was bizarre.

[sadnesstan]

Musk is pretty much my one hope for humanity right now, can't believe anyone can criticise the man for trying to drag the human race forward.

[BlufPurdi]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

Sure, a lot of people who he employs don't like him, I've read his book, he doesn't tolerate people who don't work as hard as he does. He knows what he wants and runs people into the ground in an attempt to turn his ideas into reality.

That makes it okay then.

[pbxtn]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

Sure, a lot of people who he employs don't like him, I've read his book, he doesn't tolerate people who don't work as hard as he does. He knows what he wants and runs people into the ground in an attempt to turn his ideas into reality.

That makes it okay then.

   Obviously it would be better if he was going round asking everyone how their weekend was and paying everyone great wages.

[Parky]

I like Tesla and like others on here I have enjoyed his talks and visionary mind space. But every time I look at the fundamentals I see issues. The battery tech for instance is owned by Panasonic.

BMW and Mercedes are planning to enter the market in a big way over the next 2/3 years and move over from hybrid to more EV...These are historical car companies with decades of industry knowledge and vast networks. I'm not sure how Tesla is going to withstand further saturation of an already tiny market (albeit growing) when the big boys arrive.

[Toondave]

Is it wholly owned by Panasonic? I was aware they'd signed quite a comprehensive r&d agreement with them

[Parky]

Is it wholly owned by Panasonic? I was aware they'd signed quite a comprehensive r&d agreement with them

Panasonic is the supplier from what I can tell although it must be that Tesla are now involved in developing new products with them. My point being the batteries aren't Tesla propitiatory. I'm not trying to take Tesla down piece by piece I really hopes he succeeds.

''Palo Alto, Calif. – Panasonic corporation and Tesla Motors finalized a supply agreement for automotive-grade lithium-ion battery cells. Panasonic is the world’s leading battery cell manufacturer and a diverse supplier to the global automotive industry. Panasonic’s automotive grade lithium-ion battery cells will be used in Tesla’s premium electric sedan, Model S.''

https://www.tesla.com/blog/panasonic-enters-supply-agreement-tesla-motors-supply-automotivegrade-battery-c

[neesy111]

Is it wholly owned by Panasonic? I was aware they'd signed quite a comprehensive r&d agreement with them

Panasonic is the supplier from what I can tell although it must be that Tesla are now involved in developing new products with them. My point being the batteries aren't Tesla propitiatory. I'm not trying to take Tesla down piece by piece I really hopes he succeeds.

''Palo Alto, Calif. – Panasonic corporation and Tesla Motors finalized a supply agreement for automotive-grade lithium-ion battery cells. Panasonic is the world’s leading battery cell manufacturer and a diverse supplier to the global automotive industry. Panasonic’s automotive grade lithium-ion battery cells will be used in Tesla’s premium electric sedan, Model S.''

https://www.tesla.com/blog/panasonic-enters-supply-agreement-tesla-motors-supply-automotivegrade-battery-c

Panasonic's new battery plant is in the same building as Tesla, it's the biggest factory in the world or it will be when completed.

http://jalopnik.com/inside-the-tesla-gigafactory-the-biggest-factory-in-th-1784369456

[Parky]

Is it wholly owned by Panasonic? I was aware they'd signed quite a comprehensive r&d agreement with them

Panasonic is the supplier from what I can tell although it must be that Tesla are now involved in developing new products with them. My point being the batteries aren't Tesla propitiatory. I'm not trying to take Tesla down piece by piece I really hopes he succeeds.

''Palo Alto, Calif. – Panasonic corporation and Tesla Motors finalized a supply agreement for automotive-grade lithium-ion battery cells. Panasonic is the world’s leading battery cell manufacturer and a diverse supplier to the global automotive industry. Panasonic’s automotive grade lithium-ion battery cells will be used in Tesla’s premium electric sedan, Model S.''

https://www.tesla.com/blog/panasonic-enters-supply-agreement-tesla-motors-supply-automotivegrade-battery-c

Panasonic's new battery plant is in the same building as Tesla, it's the biggest factory in the world or it will be when completed.

http://jalopnik.com/inside-the-tesla-gigafactory-the-biggest-factory-in-th-1784369456

Thanks.

BMW are developing their own batteries.

''The technology is clearly available and BMW is certainly deploying massive capital investment to bring lithium air batteries closer to automotive production. Sufficiently scaling the technology, which is unstable, and consistently producing it in the numbers required to power a greater share of the more than 2m vehicles BMW sell per year, is the problem.

BMW says it’s delivery date for lithium air battery cars are 2026, although Robertson cautions against believing we’ll completely divorce from unleaded or diesel soon. “The internal combustion engine has a long way to go. We (BMW) will improve the efficiency and mate them to electric vehicles in many cases.”
Our suspicion is that the first battery powered M-cars will be chief beneficiaries of lithium air. We certainly hope BMW gets the chemistry correct with those.''

http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Gear_and_Tech/so-bmw-is-developing-super-batteries-for-electric-cars-20170315

[loki679]

The gigafactory only started mass production of their own cells in January.  At full capacity (expected 2020) it'll be producing more than the entire global Li-ion battery industry made in 2013.

[Parky]

The gigafactory only started mass production of their own cells in January.  At full capacity (expected 2020) it'll be producing more than the entire global Li-ion battery industry made in 2013.

Massive article on the Gigafactory and battery tech. Long boring read.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/3976731-teslas-huge-mistake-thin-film-lithium-ion-batteries-power-ev-revolution

Some chit chat on the Tesla forum.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/question-will-lithiumion-batteries-become-obsoleted-soon

[firetotheworks]

I can criticise him for low pay and unsafe working conditions.  He's a capitalist like the rest of the exploiters of society.  He does have some great ideas, but I'll not do what people did with Steve Jobs and pretend their inventions make them a great person or likeable.

Sure, a lot of people who he employs don't like him, I've read his book, he doesn't tolerate people who don't work as hard as he does. He knows what he wants and runs people into the ground in an attempt to turn his ideas into reality.

That makes it okay then.

Would you rather he was a Hank Scorpio like?  

[BlufPurdi]

I'd rather people stop giving him a free pass cause he does something cool.  Doesn't matter what you do, you shouldn't get away with exploiting your workforce.  And I think every single one of you know this but have decided in this case it doesn't matter.   Mental.

[Parky]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mars-elon-musk-city-million-people-constructed-2062-red-planet-space-a7802296.html

[firetotheworks]

Nah, that's just an assumption tbh. Of course he shouldn't exploit his workforce, but that doesn't detract from his work just as much as his work doesn't excuse him.

It's a societal problem imo, no one's going to specifically single him out and go to town on him with protests etc it when it's everywhere and you can pick from a sea of other arseholes doing the same thing, with causes that deliberately kills the population and/or the planet for profit, as opposed to one who's attempting to save it for profit. It's just about picking your battles imo, it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter and shouldn't change.