Author Topic: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0  (Read 311184 times)

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Offline ManDoon

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13275 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 11:46:41 am »
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Quote
It ' time to market and the charm of the enfant terrible , back in fashion . No one wants it , but all seek him . Ben Arfa needs of the spotlight . The field as a film set , the prowess to restart combustion processes of his falling star . To become , finally , Hatem Ben Arfa , a child prodigy .

Offline Shay's Given Tim Flowers

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  • Stephen f***ing Hawkinson
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13276 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 11:57:33 am »
For some reason I'm thinking of Noodles.

Is this Noodles thing a way of calling some-one Right Wing on here?

I'm not sure how being opposed to Marxism makes someone a Right Wing extremist.  Maybe if you think someone arguing for political centrism is 'Noodles' you should probably check where you sit on the political spectrum. Somewhere to the left of Corbyn is my guess...

You're quite literally just making things up.

For what its worth I don't feel that Centrism is a dirty word or an inherently damaging political philosophy (to the extent it is a philosophy at all). It has been the dominant method of passing, in the main, progressive legislation in Western Democracies since the second World War.

Online TheHoob

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Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13277 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 12:26:08 pm »
Forgot Noodles was a thing  :lol: The libertarian social housing landlord and avid MotD watcher.

Offline cookidge

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13278 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 12:30:04 pm »
I'm not sure that bell-ends like Corbyn demanding a Stalinist society will fix this problem...

yeah, but there's fact that you've just made that up

Without plunging into academic debate, both of my key arguments about the effects of AI on society are very well covered in literature.  Just spend 30 seconds searching the web and you will find a huge amount of stuff that is all pretty much in agreement.  My point is that we don't know what a post-AI society will look like, so imposing a failed ideology on a pre-AI society is unlikely to be a wise move.

Your counter argument appears to be 'you're just making it up'.  You might have to do slightly better than that to persuade me that we should ditch our current political structure for an ideology that literally killed more people than the Nazis.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/communism-the-leading-ideological-cause-of-death-in-the-20th-century_2212529.html

I don't think anyone here has proposed communism.

"Overthrow capitalism" has been mentioned and is clearly hyperbole.

Corbyn is not a Stalinist.

Yikes.

Offline AsprillasShinPad

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13279 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 01:47:36 pm »
I realise that this thread is full of card carrying Corbynistas and anything I say that does't lick his hoop will only antagonise people.

I'm going to step away now and go back to the Football threads whilst we are all still friends.  :rose:

Offline Ian W

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  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13280 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 01:49:14 pm »
I realise that this thread is full of card carrying Corbynistas and anything I say that does't lick his hoop will only antagonise people.

I'm going to step away now and go back to the Football threads whilst we are all still friends.  :rose:

No offence to you specifically, but these are possibly the most annoying posts in existence.

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13281 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 01:56:19 pm »
Can we have a new political party please?  Going to feel absolutely filthy having to choose between the existing c***s come the next GE.

If there was a N-O Party, I'd vote for it.  As long as the Clique wasn't in charge.  ;)

what bothers you about labour out of interest, genuine question

I think Socialism has a long history of failure and Labour under Corbyn are very Socialist.  I get that they have a set of ideals, which is more than May's Conservatives in this case, but I personally prefer pragmatism over idealism.  Capitalism with a set of rules that foster social justice would be better, but I feel the Corbynites are too ideologically rigid to consider anything other than pure Socialism.

The strongest economic period this country ever had was after the war when we had a genuinely socialist government.
I would also point out that it was the same for the US under Roosevelt - further left than most Democrats are today.
This 'failure' thing is a fallacy.
The countries that have a social democrat government always do better than right-wing ones. Always.

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13282 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 01:59:16 pm »
I realise that this thread is full of card carrying Corbynistas and anything I say that does't lick his hoop will only antagonise people.

I'm going to step away now and go back to the Football threads whilst we are all still friends.  :rose:

I think you might find there has been a lot of criticism - where deserved - here of Corbyn.
I don't think anyone is 'card-carrying'.
When the alternative is as monstrous and incompetent as it currently is, then a Corbyn government becomes a 'softer landing'.

Offline alijmitchell

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Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13283 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 01:59:39 pm »
I'm not sure that bell-ends like Corbyn demanding a Stalinist society will fix this problem...

yeah, but there's fact that you've just made that up

Without plunging into academic debate, both of my key arguments about the effects of AI on society are very well covered in literature.  Just spend 30 seconds searching the web and you will find a huge amount of stuff that is all pretty much in agreement.  My point is that we don't know what a post-AI society will look like, so imposing a failed ideology on a pre-AI society is unlikely to be a wise move.

Your counter argument appears to be 'you're just making it up'.  You might have to do slightly better than that to persuade me that we should ditch our current political structure for an ideology that literally killed more people than the Nazis.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/communism-the-leading-ideological-cause-of-death-in-the-20th-century_2212529.html

Right, I hate to engage in whataboutery, but may I just add that research has consistently stated the effect of income inequality to death rates. Your argument that political ideologies kills  should also include "and so does neoliberalism/capitalism". Otherwise you're blindly ignoring this just to reinforce your own biases.

EDIT - Not to mention the millions of folk killed in wars of aggression / empire building by capitalist nations.

EDIT - this makes me sound like an apologist for communist crimes - I'm not and don't ascribe to that ideology personally. I just hate that this has become a one sided debate - "communism kills", aye so does capitalism and current neoliberal policies.
« Last Edit: Thursday 11 October 2018, 03:30:15 pm by alijmitchell »

Online Kid Icarus

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Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13284 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 02:00:06 pm »
It seems to have become the new go-to argument when a few people disagree with you on N-O.
{o,o}
|)__)
-“-“-

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • #votekaka2018
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13285 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 02:00:20 pm »
Love it when a self identifying centrist goes straight off the deep end.

Offline cookidge

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13286 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 02:28:55 pm »
I realise that this thread is full of card carrying Corbynistas and anything I say that does't lick his hoop will only antagonise people.

I'm going to step away now and go back to the Football threads whilst we are all still friends.  :rose:

Not a big fan of Corbyn personally, I just don't think he's a Stalinist bud!

Online Northerngimp

  • Brexit W*nker
  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13287 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 02:34:18 pm »
 :lol: :lol:

Offline ManDoon

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13288 on: Thursday 11 October 2018, 04:50:05 pm »
I'm not sure that bell-ends like Corbyn demanding a Stalinist society will fix this problem...

yeah, but there's fact that you've just made that up

Without plunging into academic debate, both of my key arguments about the effects of AI on society are very well covered in literature.  Just spend 30 seconds searching the web and you will find a huge amount of stuff that is all pretty much in agreement.  My point is that we don't know what a post-AI society will look like, so imposing a failed ideology on a pre-AI society is unlikely to be a wise move.

Your counter argument appears to be 'you're just making it up'.  You might have to do slightly better than that to persuade me that we should ditch our current political structure for an ideology that literally killed more people than the Nazis.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/communism-the-leading-ideological-cause-of-death-in-the-20th-century_2212529.html

Right, I hate to engage in whataboutery, but may I just add that research has consistently stated the effect of income inequality to death rates. Your argument that political ideologies kills  should also include "and so does neoliberalism/capitalism". Otherwise you're blindly ignoring this just to reinforce your own biases.

EDIT - Not to mention the millions of folk killed in wars of aggression / empire building by capitalist nations.

EDIT - this makes me sound like an apologist for communist crimes - I'm not and don't ascribe to that ideology personally. I just hate that this has become a one sided debate - "communism kills", aye so does capitalism and current neoliberal policies.

:thup: I absolutely hate this. There is a f***ing ton of deaths you could attribute directly to Capitalism. 
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Quote
It ' time to market and the charm of the enfant terrible , back in fashion . No one wants it , but all seek him . Ben Arfa needs of the spotlight . The field as a film set , the prowess to restart combustion processes of his falling star . To become , finally , Hatem Ben Arfa , a child prodigy .

Online neesy111

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Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13291 on: Friday 12 October 2018, 08:21:49 am »
I'm not sure that bell-ends like Corbyn demanding a Stalinist society will fix this problem...

yeah, but there's fact that you've just made that up

Without plunging into academic debate, both of my key arguments about the effects of AI on society are very well covered in literature.  Just spend 30 seconds searching the web and you will find a huge amount of stuff that is all pretty much in agreement.  My point is that we don't know what a post-AI society will look like, so imposing a failed ideology on a pre-AI society is unlikely to be a wise move.

Your counter argument appears to be 'you're just making it up'.  You might have to do slightly better than that to persuade me that we should ditch our current political structure for an ideology that literally killed more people than the Nazis.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/communism-the-leading-ideological-cause-of-death-in-the-20th-century_2212529.html

You're making up that Stalin is demanding a Stalinist society, is what Mojo is saying. Is there a way of calculating the deaths under Capitalism? Next time I'd advise using a site that isn't completely bias. As you can see here: https://www.theepochtimes.com/c-opinion

Big fans of old Trump and Pence and Brett Kav  O0


yeah i thought that was pretty f***ing obvious tbh
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13292 on: Friday 12 October 2018, 08:26:56 am »
ah, i'll help fill you in, it's presumably because decades of those supposed wide-ranging political beliefs running riot have literally left loads of people to actually starve, and die

By wide ranging, I mean the broad political spectrum of everyone from hardened communist to neo-liberal supercons, not that I was making any claim about my own views- just that we seem to be becoming increasingly bipolar and Ian's comment sums that up- essentially anyone failing to adhere to one of the prescribed ideologies is in effect without one.

Are we going to end up like the States there are only two options and you can either go with them or be irrelevant? Labour and Tories might always have been the largest parties, but the presence of reasonably-sized third parties has done much to be the carbon control rod of the political agenda. With them weakened the main parties can count on the centre-left or centre-right respectively as a given and become under greater influence of the fringes, hence we now have the DUP and Brexremists calling the shots.

i think we're already there tbh, everyone just prefers to think that we're not because it's understandably uncomfortable for us

we're obviously not as far gone as them and it could be turned around, but something has to change soon man
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • #votekaka2018
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13293 on: Friday 12 October 2018, 08:42:23 am »

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • #votekaka2018
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13294 on: Sunday 14 October 2018, 10:08:21 am »
Tories keeping their core vote very happy with this...

Quote
Some 2.8 million homes would see their income cut under the universal credit system, according to the Policy in Practice analysis.

In a major blow to May’s early vow to help those “just about managing”, working homeowners currently receiving tax credits are badly hit under universal credit. According to the research, a million homeowners currently receiving tax credits will be worse off under the new system. They will lose an average of £43 a week.

Researchers found that 600,000 working single parents receiving the current tax credits system will be worse off, losing £16 a week on average. About 750,000 households on disability benefits will be worse off. Their average loss is £76 a week.

The self-employed lose out under rules in universal credit that assume a minimum income from self-employment, usually £1,187 a month. It means that 600,000 self-employed people will be worse off.

Families with more than two children suffer as a result of changes to the law that limits state support to two children. Under the tax credits system, payments are made for more than two children if they were born before 6 April 2017. As a result, 300,000 families will be worse off, losing an average of £40 a week each.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/14/universal-credit-hits-vulnerable-hardest

Offline Varadi

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13295 on: Sunday 14 October 2018, 12:54:11 pm »
The impact on the disabled in particular is absolutely brutal :(

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13296 on: Sunday 14 October 2018, 01:08:20 pm »
The impact on the disabled in particular is absolutely brutal :(

It's f***ing criminal.

But it's a good opportunity to raise an interesting point about politics overall. I'm not using this to defend my position on the EU, before anybody goes down that route. Nor am I trying to undermine the value of expert opinion. Iam simply trying to put it into context.

So...


Riddle me this, riddle me that, what do you think the FINANCIAL experts, advising on "brexit"would think of that?

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13297 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 12:22:10 pm »
£9billion of council pension funds invested in fracking. How long until protesters are vilified for wanting to deprive the hard-working public sector of their hard-earned pensions.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • #votekaka2018
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13298 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 12:26:51 pm »
£9billion of council pension funds invested in fracking. How long until protesters are vilified for wanting to deprive the hard-working public sector of their hard-earned pensions.

:yao: I hear the Mail, Express, Sun, Times, and Telegraph are furious.

Online Greg

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Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #13299 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 12:28:01 pm »
£9billion of council pension funds invested in fracking. How long until protesters are vilified for wanting to deprive the hard-working public sector of their hard-earned pensions.

Not in fracking. In companies that are involved in fracking. Big difference - most of that is made up of huge multinationals like Shell, BP and ConocoPhillips.