Author Topic: European Elections and the Rise of the (far) Right  (Read 12456 times)

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Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #25 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 10:48:39 AM »
La Parka's post also didn't allude to strictly a war of nations.

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #26 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 10:52:49 AM »
Been talking to my missus about this for ages. We watch Euronews and the trend is clear . Trump re-enforces this rise of nationalism and growth of the right. Its gonna lead to war.

War between who?

Does it matter? A rise of nationalism has manifested itself in increased hatred of muslims; moderate and those in the extremes who follow it. The world hangs in the balance at the minute of which despots to fund to contain the worst element, how to deal with the legacies of intervention in the middle east and Russia flexing their geo-political muscles. There has already been developments with this in the Ukraine which in Jan 2016 (its government anyway) also happened to cosy up to membership of DCFTA. War is inevitable; international and/or civil. The degree to which it extrapolates is the thing you can debate.

It matters quite a bit who actually goes to war with each other.

There are already proxy wars between the US/'coalition' and Russia in the middle East. There are huge racial tensions in France on a civil level and we're at war with an extreme but wholly prevalent ideology in radical Islam. The rise of extreme right wing in terms of realpolitik will only increase these tensions that lead to proxy/civil or open war. We're in the age of proxy/ideological/digitial/covert warfare that's a lot harder to pinpoint than say the days of the triple entente and Austro-Germany.

We've been in a proxy war with Russia over Ukraine for a long time now, its no suddenly appeared...Its caused by the West creeping further Eastwards into what used to be and what Russia sees as it sphere of influence.

The Syrian proxy has been going on for a long time and its only recently that the big players have had to play their hands, Russia directly getting involved and then it was Russia supporting one of its allies from foreign fighters.

I'm just asking who you think will go to war?  European nations at each other again, European countries breaking down into civil war???

I highly doubt it.


Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #27 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 10:59:53 AM »
Been talking to my missus about this for ages. We watch Euronews and the trend is clear . Trump re-enforces this rise of nationalism and growth of the right. Its gonna lead to war.

War between who?

Does it matter? A rise of nationalism has manifested itself in increased hatred of muslims; moderate and those in the extremes who follow it. The world hangs in the balance at the minute of which despots to fund to contain the worst element, how to deal with the legacies of intervention in the middle east and Russia flexing their geo-political muscles. There has already been developments with this in the Ukraine which in Jan 2016 (its government anyway) also happened to cosy up to membership of DCFTA. War is inevitable; international and/or civil. The degree to which it extrapolates is the thing you can debate.

It matters quite a bit who actually goes to war with each other.

There are already proxy wars between the US/'coalition' and Russia in the middle East. There are huge racial tensions in France on a civil level and we're at war with an extreme but wholly prevalent ideology in radical Islam. The rise of extreme right wing in terms of realpolitik will only increase these tensions that lead to proxy/civil or open war. We're in the age of proxy/ideological/digitial/covert warfare that's a lot harder to pinpoint than say the days of the triple entente and Austro-Germany.

We've been in a proxy war with Russia over Ukraine for a long time now, its no suddenly appeared...Its caused by the West creeping further Eastwards into what used to be and what Russia sees as it sphere of influence.

The Syrian proxy has been going on for a long time and its only recently that the big players have had to play their hands, Russia directly getting involved and then it was Russia supporting one of its allies from foreign fighters.

I'm just asking who you think will go to war?  European nations at each other again, European countries breaking down into civil war???

I highly doubt it.



Direct Russian intervention and escalation of proxy war is hardly a step in the right direction mind. Further political movement to the far right is only going to escalate matters on civil and international levels. With a bit of hope, these elements won't prevail in these elections. Who will 'go to war'. I can't be sure. But this right wing/anti Islam thing can't be underestimated if such elements get into power on a wider scale.

Offline Shay's Given Tim Flowers

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #28 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:00:53 AM »
I thought the Ukranian Civil War was about some Western Ukrainian's wanting to join the EU with Eastern Ukraine being essentially, Russia.  Also thought the Ukraine owed Russia a s*** lot of money.

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #29 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:08:43 AM »
Been talking to my missus about this for ages. We watch Euronews and the trend is clear . Trump re-enforces this rise of nationalism and growth of the right. Its gonna lead to war.

War between who?

Does it matter? A rise of nationalism has manifested itself in increased hatred of muslims; moderate and those in the extremes who follow it. The world hangs in the balance at the minute of which despots to fund to contain the worst element, how to deal with the legacies of intervention in the middle east and Russia flexing their geo-political muscles. There has already been developments with this in the Ukraine which in Jan 2016 (its government anyway) also happened to cosy up to membership of DCFTA. War is inevitable; international and/or civil. The degree to which it extrapolates is the thing you can debate.

It matters quite a bit who actually goes to war with each other.

There are already proxy wars between the US/'coalition' and Russia in the middle East. There are huge racial tensions in France on a civil level and we're at war with an extreme but wholly prevalent ideology in radical Islam. The rise of extreme right wing in terms of realpolitik will only increase these tensions that lead to proxy/civil or open war. We're in the age of proxy/ideological/digitial/covert warfare that's a lot harder to pinpoint than say the days of the triple entente and Austro-Germany.

We've been in a proxy war with Russia over Ukraine for a long time now, its no suddenly appeared...Its caused by the West creeping further Eastwards into what used to be and what Russia sees as it sphere of influence.

The Syrian proxy has been going on for a long time and its only recently that the big players have had to play their hands, Russia directly getting involved and then it was Russia supporting one of its allies from foreign fighters.

I'm just asking who you think will go to war?  European nations at each other again, European countries breaking down into civil war???

I highly doubt it.



Direct Russian intervention and escalation of proxy war is hardly a step in the right direction mind. Further political movement to the far right is only going to escalate matters on civil and international levels. With a bit of hope, these elements won't prevail in these elections. Who will 'go to war'. I can't be sure. But this right wing/anti Islam thing can't be underestimated if such elements get into power on a wider scale.

Its not perfect but it looks to have brought an end to the Syrian conflict.

Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of Russia but we'll be looking for trouble if we keep creeping Eastwards. Its like Poking an injured tiger with a stick.

As for Europe, I cant see any flavour for war between nations and I cant see any flavour for war between the peoples of Europe.

And as for the RW, yeah its worry but you cant ignore the likes of Tony Blaire who helped light up the whole Middle East and he was/is a neo liberal.


Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #30 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
I thought the Ukranian Civil War was about some Western Ukrainian's wanting to join the EU with Eastern Ukraine being essentially, Russia.  Also thought the Ukraine owed Russia a s*** lot of money.

Its part of a much wider issue, all about hemming Russia in and killing its leverage and sphere of influence.

Offline Shay's Given Tim Flowers

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #31 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
But it started with Ukranian self determination? 

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #32 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:15:59 AM »
But it started with Ukranian self determination? 

Yeah they had have massive protests over the years both pro Russia / Pro west...to the point where both sides have piled in.  I wonder  :undecided:

Its no surprise Russia has stepped in to protect its own interests as the West try to lure Ukraine over to them.

Its all very odd.

Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #33 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:21:25 AM »
I may have over played Russia's role but due to the expanse of radical Islam after outbreak insyria and other areas of the Persian gulf, states have further been drawn in and tensions regarding people seeking or taking advantage of asylum have pushed behaviour to the extreme right. It's going to be a gradual sliding scale and a lot can happen so no I can't predict any breakout. Just think it's too much of a heating pressure cooker right now not to just blow...somewhere. Intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan has undoubtedly been a mistake and a huge factor the other side. I find it a real shame that Blair tainted his ledger as such and tagged on to dubyah finishing what daddy started.

Offline Toondave

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #34 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:21:43 AM »
Nation split on ethnic and cultural lines. US agitating Ukrainians to accept EU deal against the proposal in place between Russia and Yanukovych. When the EU/Western supported protesters ousted Yanukovych, Russia sought to, depending on your point of view (or it's both as I believe), protect ethnic/cultural Russians in the Donbass region from retaliation or to retain what influence it has in the area. The Crimea issue is slightly separate - it's Russia's only port with access to the Med (not including Syria's Tartous) and has been pseudo-Russian for ages, Tartars couldn't really give a f*** about Ukraine and were more than happy to be under Russian protection - the Civil war just gave a convenient backdrop to solidify Crimea as Russian.

Offline Toondave

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #35 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:24:26 AM »
I may have over played Russia's role but due to the expanse of radical Islam after outbreak insyria and other areas of the Persian gulf, states have further been drawn in and tensions regarding people seeking or taking advantage of asylum have pushed behaviour to the extreme right. It's going to be a gradual sliding scale and a lot can happen so no I can't predict any breakout. Just think it's too much of a heating pressure cooker right now not to just blow...somewhere. Intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan has undoubtedly been a mistake and a huge factor the other side. I find it a real shame that Blair tainted his ledger as such and tagged on to dubyah finishing what daddy started.

The refugee policy pursued by Merkel through the EU is nothing short of disastrous no matter which side you fall on (other than wanting to seem nice). It has resulted in thousands of deaths that were completely avoidable. Cameron, for all his sins, had the right idea with helping them at source and only taking refugees directly from danger areas with RFA. Can argue numbers all day but those are two hugely different strategies, one of which puts image ahead of practicality in my eyes.

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #36 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:31:16 AM »
Ukraine's natural resources...

Iron Ore
Coal
Natural Gas :hmm:
Oil   :hmm:
Nickel
Mercury
Arable land

Its  damn rich in resources - http://www.azomining.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=47

Hello Europe!  :lol:

Offline Disco

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #37 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:32:27 AM »
You alright there Gimp?

Offline Toondave

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #38 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:34:12 AM »
Most of the industry is in the Donbass region too.

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #39 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 11:34:28 AM »

Offline La Parka

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #40 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:32:54 PM »
Been talking to my missus about this for ages. We watch Euronews and the trend is clear . Trump re-enforces this rise of nationalism and growth of the right. Its gonna lead to war.

War between who?

Does it matter? A rise of nationalism has manifested itself in increased hatred of muslims; moderate and those in the extremes who follow it. The world hangs in the balance at the minute of which despots to fund to contain the worst element, how to deal with the legacies of intervention in the middle east and Russia flexing their geo-political muscles. There has already been developments with this in the Ukraine which in Jan 2016 (its government anyway) also happened to cosy up to membership of DCFTA. War is inevitable; international and/or civil. The degree to which it extrapolates is the thing you can debate.

It matters quite a bit who actually goes to war with each other.

how could you expect anyone to predict that at this stage though, it's the 'rise of the right' in the sense that it's ongoing...if you get right-wing leaders/policies in a few governments across europe it'll lead to war (no i can not guarantee this)

So you are predicting war but have no idea who the combatant nations would be???

it would depend on who is elected where and what type of protectionism/nationalist policies they implement obviously, why is that hard?

it's what i believe the 'rise of the right' will lead to but i can neither predict things exactly any better than you can provide evidence it won't happen



The rise of the right/nationalism will spawn a disgusting leader sooner rather than later. Countries becoming increasingly insular, restrictive and believing themselves to be better than others will lead to war. I have no clue to how this will manifest but all this wall building will eventually lead to someone tearing them down.

Offline Klaus

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #41 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:47:36 PM »
It is only a matter of time before we have s far right leader in (probably) Central Europe, leading to division and possibly even conflict. The only country which will benefit from this is Russia, but I struggle to see any way to change the tide of opinion across the continent. I really can only see populism increasing as countries take in more refugees and have ever increasing populations.

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #42 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:48:16 PM »
Been talking to my missus about this for ages. We watch Euronews and the trend is clear . Trump re-enforces this rise of nationalism and growth of the right. Its gonna lead to war.

War between who?

Does it matter? A rise of nationalism has manifested itself in increased hatred of muslims; moderate and those in the extremes who follow it. The world hangs in the balance at the minute of which despots to fund to contain the worst element, how to deal with the legacies of intervention in the middle east and Russia flexing their geo-political muscles. There has already been developments with this in the Ukraine which in Jan 2016 (its government anyway) also happened to cosy up to membership of DCFTA. War is inevitable; international and/or civil. The degree to which it extrapolates is the thing you can debate.

It matters quite a bit who actually goes to war with each other.

how could you expect anyone to predict that at this stage though, it's the 'rise of the right' in the sense that it's ongoing...if you get right-wing leaders/policies in a few governments across europe it'll lead to war (no i can not guarantee this)

So you are predicting war but have no idea who the combatant nations would be???

it would depend on who is elected where and what type of protectionism/nationalist policies they implement obviously, why is that hard?

it's what i believe the 'rise of the right' will lead to but i can neither predict things exactly any better than you can provide evidence it won't happen



The rise of the right/nationalism will spawn a disgusting leader sooner rather than later. Countries becoming increasingly insular, restrictive and believing themselves to be better than others will lead to war. I have no clue to how this will manifest but all this wall building will eventually lead to someone tearing them down.
Exactly
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline Toondave

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #43 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:48:45 PM »
How does Russia benefit from war in Europe?

Their economy can barely support the Syrian intervention as it is and they have a lot of Europe hooked on gas.

Offline Klaus

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #44 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:54:57 PM »
How does Russia benefit from war in Europe?

Their economy can barely support the Syrian intervention as it is and they have a lot of Europe hooked on gas.

Perhaps not war itself, but they certainly want to see division within the EU which is why they give/loan the NF funds for example.

Offline Toondave

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the Right
« Reply #45 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 12:57:06 PM »
Well they naturally feel threatened by encroachment into what they consider their sphere of influence, personified in part by the EU. I very much doubt their endgame is war.


I think conflict is far more likely in the China Sea.

Offline Kaizero

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the (far) Right
« Reply #46 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 05:22:47 PM »
On the other hand, we've had a right wing government for the past four years here in Norway and nothing is more certain than the fact they're about to be kicked the f*** out in November. Approval has never been as low and they're tanking in all the polls (then again polls seem to mean nothing anymore :anguish:).

Same here, "Perussuomalaiset" got into government after last elections with over 20% of the votes, now they are at below 10% (polls :lol:)and close to becoming irrelevant again.

Yeah, I feel the best way to get rid of the far right is to let them try to rule for a while and showing everyone just how incompetent they are when they actually have power and aren't just complaining about the ones in power. This only goes for the coubtries where they can't force themselves to stay in power forever though.

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the (far) Right
« Reply #47 on: Friday 24 February 2017, 06:00:29 PM »
Well they naturally feel threatened by encroachment into what they consider their sphere of influence, personified in part by the EU. I very much doubt their endgame is war.

I think conflict is far more likely in the China Sea.

no one is saying anyone's end game is war, or at least i'm not, but sew enough division and have enough hard-right parties in charge it'll not take much for things go off of their own accord...bit of protectionism, pinch of nationalism, hint of blaming all problems on immigrants etc. etc.

no idea why people are so keen to ignore the lessons of relatively recent history
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: European Elections and the Rise of the (far) Right
« Reply #48 on: Saturday 25 February 2017, 08:44:00 AM »
Reminds me of this:


Offline Si

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Bearings Straight!