Author Topic: Dalian Atkinson - RIP  (Read 5305 times)

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Offline ED209

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #25 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 05:56:24 PM »
It's none of our business what problems the guy was having, it seems like the police were a little trigger happy.. I read he was shot twice with the taser. After the first he was stunned and was staggering forward slightly, so they nailed him again with it.

You wouldn't know if there was an underlying heart condition, one of the reasons they shouldn't use something like that in the first place.

Any person or animal for that matter who is cornered when they've lost control isn't going to suddenly start following instructions no matter how much force is used. They really need to rethink things.

What do you suggest then ?
In the end what you remember are not the words of your enemies but the silence of your friends.

Offline Troll

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #26 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:02:08 PM »
:lol:  This debate about whether the police should be allowed tasers must seem surreal to our American contingent.

Offline Wullie

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #27 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:02:42 PM »
Used to have a video when I was a kid of all the best Premiership goals from 92-93 and that one against Wimbledon always stuck in my mind as being the best, absolutely fantastic.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline Figures 1-0 Football

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #28 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:06:05 PM »
Witness saying they tasered him once, he fell to the floor and they tasered him another 4-5 times while motionless on the ground. Is this standard practice?

"Witnesses" are often wrong. Not saying they are in this situation, but quite frequently they are. But no, to answer your question - that isn't standard practice.

It's none of our business what problems the guy was having, it seems like the police were a little trigger happy.. I read he was shot twice with the taser. After the first he was stunned and was staggering forward slightly, so they nailed him again with it.

You wouldn't know if there was an underlying heart condition, one of the reasons they shouldn't use something like that in the first place.

Any person or animal for that matter who is cornered when they've lost control isn't going to suddenly start following instructions no matter how much force is used. They really need to rethink things.

How do you know the police were "a little trigger happy" in this situation? What a completely ridiculous post.

The circumstances leading to Atkinson's death will be investigated and if there are problems with how the police dealt with the situation, then they will be dealt with accordingly. To speculate about the circumstances is daft, especially when we are discussing the loss of a life.

Tasers are a useful piece of equipment for police officers as an alternative to shooting somebody. The Taser should only be deployed where there is a risk of harm.

Sadly, the police don't have the opportunity to ask each individual that they Taser if they have taken any drugs and/or have any heart conditions that may cause them to die during the process. Usually, they are deployed in a crisis situation where there is no alternative.
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Offline Shay's Given Tim Flowers

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #29 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:16:42 PM »
Tasers cause cardiac arrythmia and Atkinson went into cardiac arrest after being tasered. They significantly increase the risk even if they aren't the operative cause of death as such.


Like myself, you have no idea of what actually caused his death. Well unless you personally conducted his post mortem examination.

The taser might have caused his death, the taser might not have caused his death. Nobody knows at this stage.

Likewise none of us know enough about what actually went on to say whether the use of taser was justified or not.

Well that's bollocks. Cardiac arrest caused his death. I do know that the police are often over zealous in using force. I do know that there are clear associated risks associated  with the use of tasers. As such they should only ever be used as a last resort in my opinion. I know that this is often not the case. 

Offline Shay's Given Tim Flowers

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #30 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:20:36 PM »
Anyway, a man who brought joy to many has died young. Whatever the circumstances it's tragic.

Offline Troll

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #31 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:21:22 PM »
Tasers cause cardiac arrythmia and Atkinson went into cardiac arrest after being tasered. They significantly increase the risk even if they aren't the operative cause of death as such.


Like myself, you have no idea of what actually caused his death. Well unless you personally conducted his post mortem examination.

The taser might have caused his death, the taser might not have caused his death. Nobody knows at this stage.

Likewise none of us know enough about what actually went on to say whether the use of taser was justified or not.

Well that's bollocks. Cardiac arrest caused his death. I do know that the police are often over zealous in using force. I do know that there are clear associated risks associated  with the use of tasers. As such they should only ever be used as a last resort in my opinion. I know that this is often not the case. 

Aye, it's possible he might have had an unrelated heart attack at exactly the same time they tasered him, but I think we're safe to assume it was the taser.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #32 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 06:23:28 PM »
Tasers cause cardiac arrythmia and Atkinson went into cardiac arrest after being tasered. They significantly increase the risk even if they aren't the operative cause of death as such.


Like myself, you have no idea of what actually caused his death. Well unless you personally conducted his post mortem examination.

The taser might have caused his death, the taser might not have caused his death. Nobody knows at this stage.

Likewise none of us know enough about what actually went on to say whether the use of taser was justified or not.

Whether it was justified or not, who knows... but it's not exactly a giant stretch of the imagination to surmise that 'man who got tasered and then died' is very likely to have died as the result of the tasering. It is not just a coincidence that he was tasered :lol:

Offline ED209

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #33 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 07:48:09 PM »
Tasers cause cardiac arrythmia and Atkinson went into cardiac arrest after being tasered. They significantly increase the risk even if they aren't the operative cause of death as such.


Like myself, you have no idea of what actually caused his death. Well unless you personally conducted his post mortem examination.

The taser might have caused his death, the taser might not have caused his death. Nobody knows at this stage.

Likewise none of us know enough about what actually went on to say whether the use of taser was justified or not.

Well that's bollocks. Cardiac arrest caused his death. I do know that the police are often over zealous in using force. I do know that there are clear associated risks associated  with the use of tasers. As such they should only ever be used as a last resort in my opinion. I know that this is often not the case. 

Aye, it's possible he might have had an unrelated heart attack at exactly the same time they tasered him, but I think we're safe to assume it was the taser.

Its not safe to assume anything.

The taser might have caused his death, it might not have. Its use might have been perfectly reasonable, it might not have been.

What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

If it was a cardiac arrest many things could have caused it - The media reports he had health problems and had been having dialysis, they also report he was drunk. Perhaps it wasn't the best idea to get drunk with such health problems? Perhaps this caused his heart to stop?

Perhaps he had some kind of injury which caused his heart to stop? Perhaps he had took a drug such as cocaine which caused his heart to stop? Perhaps he was in a state of excited delirium which caused his heart to stop?

My point is that I don't know, the media don't know and posters on internet forums don't know.  People are far to quick to jump to conclusions before they know the full facts of what went on.

The Daily Mail publishing things like "tasered to death by police" doesn't help. People believe what they read in the media even if it turns out to be wrong. What never happens in these situations is seeing a senior police officer saying what happened and defending officers actions (if of course they are defensible).

One thing that will be quickly known if if the tasered 5 times stories are true - Tasers record how many times they are activated and for how long. I am sure the IPCC will have already downloaded this information.
In the end what you remember are not the words of your enemies but the silence of your friends.

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #34 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 07:54:30 PM »
What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

i know you're police and might take this the wrong way but are there many examples of this happening in the UK police force?  i'm by nature fairly suspicious of organisations with as much power and ability to close ranks as the police and army, can't ever recall hearing about police being nailed to the cross for excessive force or whatever in high profile cases, maybe it just never makes the news or i've just missed it (if so no aggro intended, is an honest question)
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline ED209

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #35 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:00:48 PM »
What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

i know you're police and might take this the wrong way but are there many examples of this happening in the UK police force?  i'm by nature fairly suspicious of organisations with as much power and ability to close ranks as the police and army, can't ever recall hearing about police being nailed to the cross for excessive force or whatever in high profile cases, maybe it just never makes the news or i've just missed it (if so no aggro intended, is an honest question)

People get sacked/disciplined all the time for various things. Most forces publish the details online.

It isn't the 1970's any more, everything is open to scrutiny.
In the end what you remember are not the words of your enemies but the silence of your friends.

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #36 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:02:41 PM »
What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

i know you're police and might take this the wrong way but are there many examples of this happening in the UK police force?  i'm by nature fairly suspicious of organisations with as much power and ability to close ranks as the police and army, can't ever recall hearing about police being nailed to the cross for excessive force or whatever in high profile cases, maybe it just never makes the news or i've just missed it (if so no aggro intended, is an honest question)

People get sacked/disciplined all the time for various things. Most forces publish the details online.

It isn't the 1970's any more, everything is open to scrutiny.

yeah sure, it was the high profile stuff i mentioned specifically...i barely follow the news nowadays but weren't there a few cases of suspicious deaths in custody and so on not long back (a few years)?  were they all deemed legit?
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline brummie

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #37 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:07:09 PM »
I used to love that side, in many ways they were better than the title winning side of ten years earlier.

Atkinson and Dean Saunders, what a pair.

I was at Selhurst for the goal of the season but the one I will always remember was the league cup semi final against tranmere, his header as he hung in the air for about a minute, and the old wooden Trinity Road stand feeling like it was going to explode.
Well focus on the quasar in the mist, the Kaiser has a cyst

Offline ED209

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #38 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:08:39 PM »
What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

i know you're police and might take this the wrong way but are there many examples of this happening in the UK police force?  i'm by nature fairly suspicious of organisations with as much power and ability to close ranks as the police and army, can't ever recall hearing about police being nailed to the cross for excessive force or whatever in high profile cases, maybe it just never makes the news or i've just missed it (if so no aggro intended, is an honest question)

People get sacked/disciplined all the time for various things. Most forces publish the details online.

It isn't the 1970's any more, everything is open to scrutiny.

yeah sure, it was the high profile stuff i mentioned specifically...i barely follow the news nowadays but weren't there a few cases of suspicious deaths in custody and so on not long back (a few years)?  were they all deemed legit?

I don't know which deaths you refer to. The IPCC website will probably have your answer.
In the end what you remember are not the words of your enemies but the silence of your friends.

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #39 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:09:47 PM »
What is certain is that the IPCC will be all over it and I assure you if any officer has done something wrong they will be nailed to the cross buy the IPCC for it.

i know you're police and might take this the wrong way but are there many examples of this happening in the UK police force?  i'm by nature fairly suspicious of organisations with as much power and ability to close ranks as the police and army, can't ever recall hearing about police being nailed to the cross for excessive force or whatever in high profile cases, maybe it just never makes the news or i've just missed it (if so no aggro intended, is an honest question)

People get sacked/disciplined all the time for various things. Most forces publish the details online.

It isn't the 1970's any more, everything is open to scrutiny.

yeah sure, it was the high profile stuff i mentioned specifically...i barely follow the news nowadays but weren't there a few cases of suspicious deaths in custody and so on not long back (a few years)?  were they all deemed legit?

I don't know which deaths you refer to. The IPCC website will probably have your answer.

fair enough, wrong thread anyway, tragedy whatever the cause
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline Incognito

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #40 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:30:25 PM »
I used to love that side, in many ways they were better than the title winning side of ten years earlier.

Atkinson and Dean Saunders, what a pair.

I was at Selhurst for the goal of the season but the one I will always remember was the league cup semi final against tranmere, his header as he hung in the air for about a minute, and the old wooden Trinity Road stand feeling like it was going to explode.
They were certainly better to watch than Ron Saunders' side. You weren't a bad side to watch in 81 but the Big Ron Villa side were much more dynamic. I thought they were unlucky to lose out to Manchester United for the title, and of course as a Newcastle supporter, I can certainly empathise with that.
RIP gejon/cajun/ Jon Lockwood.

Proud to have made your acquaintance Sir.

Offline LionOfGosforth

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #41 on: Monday 15 August 2016, 08:47:53 PM »
Used to have a video when I was a kid of all the best Premiership goals from 92-93 and that one against Wimbledon always stuck in my mind as being the best, absolutely fantastic.

Going back a bit more, I can recall him playing for Ipswich around 87 or 88, he scored a hat-trick against Middlesbrough who they beat 4-0, 2 of them long range rakers. I remember watching those highlights and thinking he must be one of the best young strikers in the world at the time  :lol:  Maybe he was?!

I think Newcastle were linked to him around then too which was very exciting to me as a teenager scouring the Ronnie Gill for tidbits. Nowt happened of course and we signed the midgets Hendrie and Robertson instead. Fantastic striker, RIP.

Offline ED209

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 08:22:40 AM »
More info coming to light today, the low from the daily mail but first published in the Sun. It might ad a little more justification to the use of taser? Perhaps him ripping his tube out causing blood loss contributed to his cardiac arrest? (if in fact that was what killed Atkinson.-

Brother Kenroy told how Atkinson, who had been suffering depression after dialysis treatment for kidney failure, tried to strangle his elderly father Ernest at his home in Telford, Shropshire.
Kenroy, 53, told The Sun: 'My brother had lost it. He was in a manic state and depressed — out of his mind and ranting. He had a tube in his shoulder for the dialysis and he had ripped it out and was covered in blood.
'He got dad by the throat and said he was going to kill him. He told dad he had already killed me, our brother Paul and sister Elaine and he had come for him. He was not in his right mind.'



In the end what you remember are not the words of your enemies but the silence of your friends.

Offline newsted

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 07:54:44 PM »
Just horrible for everyone concerned, including the guy on the other end of the taser, who would have known the possible consequences. No winners. :(

Sadly s*** has to happen sometimes.
:) As you were.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 08:16:56 PM »
If he's so weak because of his treatment / tube ripping that he ends up dead, then I would suggest that the police could have overpowered him with ease, and thus opted out of the tasering.

Offline Disco

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #45 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 08:20:20 PM »
Wonder if after killing fans and ex players they'll be interested in moving on to fat owners who enjoy breaking the law?

Offline neesy111

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 08:22:32 PM »
Sounds like using the taser would be a horrific choice if he was in that state.

Offline newsted

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 16 August 2016, 09:28:36 PM »
If he's so weak because of his treatment / tube ripping that he ends up dead, then I would suggest that the police could have overpowered him with ease, and thus opted out of the tasering.

Sounds like using the taser would be a horrific choice if he was in that state.

But they wouldn't have known. He'd have been a raging blood-covered nutter threatening peoples' lives. I don't know, awful all round :(
:) As you were.

Offline Disco

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 18 October 2018, 04:02:13 PM »

Offline OCK

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Re: Dalian Atkinson - RIP
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 18 October 2018, 06:30:35 PM »
I'll admit that if Dalian Atkinson carved 3 people up, I am fine with their utilization of the taser.

America has changed you.