Poll

What would be the best option?

Theresa May's deal
Walk away with no deal
Forget it and stay in

Author Topic: why is it so hard to do a Brexit  (Read 673531 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BottledDog

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24900 on: Friday 18 January 2019, 06:02:40 PM »
"Newcastle is a strange club and I don't know what else you can say about them" - Ferguson.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24901 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 01:14:50 AM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/18/theresa-may-leaves-diplomats-disbelief-presenting-eu-leaders/


Quote
Theresa May leaves diplomats in 'disbelief' after presenting EU leaders with unchanged Brexit demands

:lol:

Quote
Theresa May has left European diplomats in a state of “disbelief” following a series of phone calls to EU leaders in which she made no change to her demands despite her Brexit plan being voted down by a 230-vote margin this week.

Senior EU diplomatic sources said that Mrs May’s unchanged stance was “greeted with incredulity” following a call with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday night.

“It was the same old story - the same set of demands - all unchanged despite the defeat,” said the source with knowledge of the calls.

Mrs May is understood to have repeated the same performance in conversations with the French president Emmanuel Macron, the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte and the Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, provoking what one source called “diplomatic eye-rolling” in Brussels.

Two other senior diplomatic sources confirmed the contents - or lack of contents - of the calls to the Telegraph. “She hasn’t asked for anything new,” said the second source.

Mrs May’s demands are understood to still centre around either a legally binding time-limit for the Irish backstop; a right for the UK to withdraw unilaterally, or a hard commitment to finalising a trade deal before 2021 to avoid the backstop coming into force.

These demands were firmly rejected by the EU at the European Council summit in December after leaders expressed doubts that they would be sufficient to get the deal over the line in Westminster.

In the aftermath of Tuesday’s massive Commons defeat senior Brussels diplomats congratulated themselves that they had been vindicated, viewing the rejection as confirmation that the problems with the deal went far beyond tinkering with the so-called ‘backstop’.

Sources said that Martin Selmayr, the EU’s top civil servant who is now running the EU’s ‘no deal’ planning operation made a self-congratulatory presentation at a meeting of EU ambassadors on Wednesday saying the EU had been right not to grant concessions.

Ambassadors agreed that Mrs May would now need to go back to the drawing board and seek cross-party support for a new deal - perhaps centred on the permanent customs union favoured by Labour - before returning to Brussels.

But her decision to plough on, apparently undeterred by the rejection, has now led EU diplomats to conclude that Mrs May is still “playing for time” and believes a version of her deal - with a concession on the backstop - will eventually go through Parliament.


UK sources confirmed that Mrs May’s strategy was still to re-pitch her deal, with a concession to the Brexiteer European Research Group and the Democratic Unionist Party when it became clear that there was no Commons majority for an alternative.

“It seems clear she is still ‘running down the clock,” the EU source, “She is still staking everything on the DUP and ERG. To coin a phrase, ‘nothing has changed’”.

Mrs May’s strategy was given a boost yesterday when Germany's Foreign Minister, Heiko Maas, became the first major EU politician to concede that the EU could still re-open the draft Withdrawal Agreement.

In an interview, Mr Maas said a discussion should be held on whether to re-open the draft deal for Britain's planned exit from the European Union, but only if all EU members agreed.

"In the end, it will be about the question (of) whether to reopen the deal which needs the approval of all 27 member states, which means that everyone has to join in. This is what needs to be discussed now," he told the German broadcaster ZDF.

The remarks appeared to directly contradict the letter from Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission to Mrs May issued ahead of Tuesday’s vote, which had said that the EU would not agree to “anything that changes or is inconsistent with the Withdrawal Agreement”.

EU diplomats privately now concede, however, that in the light of Mrs May’s defeat it is no longer completely impossible that the Withdrawal Agreement could be changed - perhaps even to include some kind of time limit to the backstop - if it was guaranteed to close the deal.

The EU has said it will not renegotiate until Westminster has demonstrated there is a majority for a new deal, which would not rule out MPs passing the Withdrawal Agreement with on condition that it include time-limit for the backstop for, say, five years after it was triggered.

“I’m still highly sceptical EU leaders would accept this,” concluded a diplomat with knowledge of EU discussion, “But if the Commons had demonstrated there was support for such a deal, there’s no doubt that would put the us [the EU] on the spot.”

Quote
Key Brexit moments | What to expect over the coming months
21 January 2019: The Prime Minister must present her new plan on EU withdrawal to Parliament.
29 January 2019: MPs will vote on the Government's Brexit Plan B.
January-March: Ratification process for the Brexit deal begins in UK Parliament. After Westminster votes on the deal, the European Parliament will have the final vote, in March.
29 March 2019: By automatic operation of the law, Britain will leave the EU. Any negotiated transition period begins now.
End of 2020: Britain is scheduled to leave the transition period, 21 months after entering it.

Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline r0cafella

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24902 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 01:22:34 AM »
So far it's as I said. She can't move because any movement would be bad for both her and her party.
From Mays point of view she's in a minefield whilst sat next to a ticking time bomb.
United we stand, divided we fall.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24903 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 02:30:35 AM »

The good Doctor.

How can almost none of them be ready to go now (suggesting some of them are? But none of them be ready to go in March?

Offline Darth Crooks

  • General Member
  • The greatest show on Darth
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24904 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 07:42:07 AM »
I’m not sure but I think withdrawal has to  set in stone until he can do anything.

Offline BlueStar

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24905 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 08:51:24 AM »
So May's Plan B is just to try Plan A again?

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24906 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 12:08:47 PM »
Furrage looking to create a new party.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24907 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 12:20:37 PM »
Furrage looking to create a new party.

Despite how much of a c*** he is, I'd rather a party led by him than the revamped UKIP-Tommy Brigade.  At least Farage tries to play politics properly, rather than showing up and intimidating c***s like Robinson et all.  I didn't realise how much worse the far right could by until Farage f***ed off, and that sad old man Batten turning it into a pure fascist den of idiocy and pseudo intellectualism. 
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24908 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 12:23:02 PM »
Furrage looking to create a new party.

Despite how much of a c*** he is, I'd rather a party led by him than the revamped UKIP-Tommy Brigade.  At least Farage tries to play politics properly, rather than showing up and intimidating c***s like Robinson et all.  I didn't realise how much worse the far right could by until Farage f***ed off, and that sad old man Batten turning it into a pure fascist den of idiocy and pseudo intellectualism. 

:thup:

Offline Adam^

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24909 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 12:54:15 PM »
Much better to have all the right wing doylems all voting for one party than tacking their votes on to the Tory's and helping them get in to govt. Any party farage makes will only ever get a few seats at most in our current voting system .

Offline Klaus

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24910 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 12:58:33 PM »
Much better to have all the right wing doylems all voting for one party than tacking their votes on to the Tory's and helping them get in to govt. Any party farage makes will only ever get a few seats at most in our current voting system .

:thup: UKIP becoming far right and Farage f***ing off, will only benefit the Tories.

Offline Gottlob

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24911 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 01:32:44 PM »
Farage is capable of gaining fairly widespread support, and that fact plus his dubious connections to Mercer, Bannon, Trump, Banks and more broadly on the far-right speaking circuit make him much more dangerous than a handful of more crude but decidedly fringe figures. I don't think there's any doubt that Farage helped shape the current state of British politics, and when UKIP were strong it seemed as much of an ideological concern for Labour as it was an electoral concern for the Conservatives.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24912 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 02:43:14 PM »

Ignoring the commentary I think this audio pretty much sums up what was being talked about the other day. 'Ah, it'll be fine. I'll be fine'
« Last Edit: Saturday 19 January 2019, 03:00:07 PM by Disco »

Offline Unbelievable!

  • General Member
  • Adopted Geordie
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24913 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 04:17:56 PM »
Oh man Perez

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24914 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 04:18:18 PM »
What? :lol:
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Unbelievable!

  • General Member
  • Adopted Geordie
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24915 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 04:19:29 PM »

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24916 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 04:20:14 PM »
:lol: O0
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24917 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 05:02:39 PM »

Nice to see the Remain top brass are really learning from the previous mistakes.  Staggering levels of idiocy and arrogance from someone that does actually know better, too.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Online Bizza

  • General Member
  • Darlington FC, Newcastle United
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24918 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 05:11:08 PM »
Furrage looking to create a new party.

The more parties splitting the vote on that side of things the better :thup:

Offline Darth Crooks

  • General Member
  • The greatest show on Darth
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24919 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 05:31:54 PM »
Oh man Perez

Good. I was fed up of hearing the usual leave arguments.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24920 on: Saturday 19 January 2019, 06:30:54 PM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-deal-vote-theresa-may-second-referendum-vote-election-yvette-cooper-a8736216.html

Going to be fantastic when Cooper's maneuvering ensures the worst all worlds deal.  Trying to be too smart for her own good, and she'll shove all the no dealers and those against a second ref (particularly in Labour) into the May Deal camp. 
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24921 on: Sunday 20 January 2019, 11:56:04 AM »
Not a lot said here about Corbs blanking May, thoughts?

Personally think they all should have done it, every single party leader.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24922 on: Sunday 20 January 2019, 11:59:47 AM »
He didn't go as long as no deal was on the table.  Everyone else went with the same demand and got nothing, so whether he should have went or not, he was ultimately right.  If she won't budge on red lines, why the hell should anyone else. 
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline geordiesteve710

  • General Member
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24923 on: Sunday 20 January 2019, 12:39:33 PM »

Nice to see the Remain top brass are really learning from the previous mistakes.  Staggering levels of idiocy and arrogance from someone that does actually know better, too.

It's an appallingly distasteful way to carry on. Not necessarily accurate either, given the way the brexit landscape has changed since the referendum.
Log on to the N-O forum.
Check the transfer thread in the vague hope we might be going to spend some money, get p*ssed off.
Move to the Mike Ashley thread because I'm p*ssed off, get more p*ssed off.
Come to this thread to cheer myself up a bit.
Leave.
Repeat.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: why is it so hard to do a Brexit
« Reply #24924 on: Sunday 20 January 2019, 01:06:54 PM »

Not a single c*** can accuse her of being pro-Corbyn.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.