Topic: UK Politics: The Tory Years - 2015-17

[Greg]

Labour abstaining on the Welfare Bill will come back to haunt them. They're now as good as dead electorally. They've just lost a large swathe of once reliable core voters. Forever.

Full list of those that broke the whip:

Diane Abbott

Debbie Abrahams

David Anderson

Richard Burgon

Dawn Butler

Ann Clwyd

Jeremy Corbyn

Geraint Davies

Peter Dowd

Paul Flynn

Mary Glindon

Roger Godsiff

Helen Goodman

Margaret Greenwood

Louise Haigh

Carolyn Harris

Sue Hayman

Imran Hussain

Gerald Jones

Helen Jones

Sir Gerald Kaufman

Sadiq Khan

David Lammy

Ian Lavery

Clive Lewis

Rebecca Long Bailey

Andy McDonald

John McDonnell

Liz McInnes

Rob Marris

Rachael Maskell

Michael Meacher

Ian Mearns

Madeleine Moon

Grahame Morris

Kate Osamor

Teresa Pearce

Marie Rimmer

Paula Sherriff

Tulip Siddiq

Dennis Skinner

Cat Smith

Jo Stevens

Graham Stringer

David Winnick

Iain Wright

Daniel Zeichner

Kelvin Hopkins (Teller)

[BlufPurdi]

to them.

Imagine actually abstaining.  What a bunch of soulless c***s.  The lack of conviction is terrifying alone.

[GeordieMessiah]

I think it's pretty damning that only a fifth of the parliamentary Labour Party can recall being elected a few weeks ago to represent the interests of lower paid, disabled and vulnerable people. So never mind saluting those that did vote against, that's the least we should expect of them, ffs! Those who abstained are responsible for a total capitulation to Osborne which renders them unelectable for years to come.

[BlufPurdi]

Saluting them going against their machine, to be fair, but I agree with what you're saying.

[toon25]

Absolutely has to be Corbyn for next labour leader. He is, as Tony Benn would have said, a signpost, not a weather cock like the rest of them.

To have him in the Commons would at least make for an alternative voice and open scope for debate. I can't believe the logic/s**** spouted by Harman and that bore Liz Kendall recently. Basically echoing Tory policies won't suddenly make your party electable ladies. Wake the f*** up.

[Kaizero]

Why is the old thread HoF material btw? 1000 pages of shouting at opinions

[Ally]

Not had much chance in recent weeks to follow Politics as closely as I'd like to. Is Jeremy Corbyn not just a token vote for the left wing or does he genuinely stand a chance of winning?

[Ally]

Just read this to answer my question http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33558209

[GeordieMessiah]

Why is the old thread HoF material btw? 1000 pages of shouting at opinions

Outta respect, kid.

[kingkerouac]

Why? Wages are rising faster than they have been for many years, inflation is low, the job market is tight.

Really?

1000 people chasing 1 job. Really?
I personally have had 1 pay rise in 12 years.

Don't fall for the spin, mate...

[Noodles]

David Lammy tweeting about his mum relying on tax credits when he was growing up as a kid, even though they were introduced in 2003, when he was 31

[Noodles]

Why? Wages are rising faster than they have been for many years, inflation is low, the job market is tight.

Really?

1000 people chasing 1 job. Really?
I personally have had 1 pay rise in 12 years.

Don't fall for the spin, mate...

A mate of mine in the engineering game has had 4 in 6 years. You're personal circumstances aren't always an accurate reflection of what other people are experiencing.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Thank goodness for the engineering game.

[Noodles]

Thank goodness for the engineering game.

There's such a lack of them at the moment there's no wonder they're paying them what they are. They even let him take a 6 month sabbatical to go travelling for a bit and kept his job open for him.

[GeordieMessiah]

You're personal circumstances aren't always an accurate reflection of what other people are experiencing.

Imma leave that quote right here and hope the penny drops for you soon.

[Greg]

David Lammy tweeting about his mum relying on tax credits when he was growing up as a kid, even though they were introduced in 2003, when he was 31

Family Income Supplement was introduce in 1971, replaced by Family Credit in the mid 80s. Basically in work benefits very similar to what Tax Credits are now.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Aye, my parents got an allowance per child for sure, they called it 'family allowance' but it might've been that.

[Noodles]

David Lammy tweeting about his mum relying on tax credits when he was growing up as a kid, even though they were introduced in 2003, when he was 31

Family Income Supplement was introduce in 1971, replaced by Family Credit in the mid 80s. Basically in work benefits very similar to what Tax Credits are now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_tax_credit

It was obvious at what he was referring to.

[Noodles]

You're personal circumstances aren't always an accurate reflection of what other people are experiencing.

Imma leave that quote right here and hope the penny drops for you soon.

You need to move on, this is getting obsessive.

[Incognito]

Why? Wages are rising faster than they have been for many years, inflation is low, the job market is tight.

Really?

1000 people chasing 1 job. Really?
I personally have had 1 pay rise in 12 years.

Don't fall for the spin, mate...

A mate of mine in the engineering game has had 4 in 6 years. You're personal circumstances aren't always an accurate reflection of what other people are experiencing.

I'm a highly skilled CNC Programmer, haven't had one in three and a half years at my current place.

[Noodles]

Sounds like they're mugging you off.

[BlufPurdi]

What are the actual ramifications of Labour abstaining yesterday?  Short of how cowardly it made them look (I'd honestly rather they voted for it if it's what they're believing in), will it make it harder to reverse these changes in the future in a hypothetical Labour administration?  Or is it just how pathetic they look, not standing up for the people that put in them in Parliament?

[Beren]

What are the actual ramifications of Labour abstaining yesterday?  Short of how cowardly it made them look (I'd honestly rather they voted for it if it's what they're believing in), will it make it harder to reverse these changes in the future in a hypothetical Labour administration?  Or is it just how pathetic they look, not standing up for the people that put in them in Parliament?

It's a rod to their back when things fall to s***, really, as well as a betrayal of their historical values IMO - the Tories will (justifiably?) say that Labour impliedly backed the moves. It also vindicates the claims about Labour just being Austerity-Lite.

[BlufPurdi]

Thought as much.

[Incognito]

What are the actual ramifications of Labour abstaining yesterday?  Short of how cowardly it made them look (I'd honestly rather they voted for it if it's what they're believing in), will it make it harder to reverse these changes in the future in a hypothetical Labour administration?  Or is it just how pathetic they look, not standing up for the people that put in them in Parliament?

I believe it has to go through the Commons again, after the Leadership election, when I hope it is opposed in more unity. The second reading I believe it is called.