Topic: UK Politics: The Tory Years - 2015-17

[BlufPurdi]

f***ing hell. I can think of bigger embarrassments to our democracy.

[GeordieMessiah]

http://yournewswire.com/australian-tv-show-exposes-britains-westminster-paedophile-scandal/

Wouldn't this be better posted in the 'Jimmy Savile and other pervs' thread?

[thenorthumbrian]

Sorry, I can't help myself.  Egotistical maniac, or opinionated tosser with too much time on his hands, but let's go.




 

"A mile wide and an inch deep"

[Toondave]

noodles you have been usurped

[GeordieMessiah]

Sorry, I can't help myself.  Egotistical maniac, or opinionated tosser with too much time on his hands, but let's go.

"A mile wide and an inch deep"

[Kimbo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11747266/Why-the-spiteful-and-stupid-foxhunting-ban-must-be-reversed.html

Thoughts?

It's bollocks, the man buys the idea that fox hunting is about controlling the numbers, even though it's a fact they breed Foxes to hunt. They never killed anywhere near enough to justify that anyway, more get killed by cars, so surely the conclusion has to be that the Fox population doesn't actually need controlling? f*** knows how the natural world managed before humans came along to "control numbers".

The argument that the majority shouldn't tell the minority what to do naturally falls down when what someone wants to do it harm a living thing. You have to have zero compassion for animals to think this is a good argument.

As for the class war stuff, class is definitely part of the reason alot of people hate it, but it's also the ONLY reason the bloodsport has survived as long as it has and is being supported by the Tories. They always bring up the fact that some poor people are involved, obviously, someone has to do the work, them acting like they are defending working class jobs is completely insincere, and frankly I couldn't give a f*** anyway.


This is a far more informative article on foxhunting.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-fox-hunter-exposes-full-6054986

[OpenC]

Happily, I should imagine that Hunt Saboteurs will be much more effective in the twitter age, should the grim spectacle of overprivileged and underemployed hunt masters come back to plague the countryside

[Ian W]

It's literally insane that anyone thinks dressing up like redcoats, sounding a hunting horn and rampaging round the countryside with a pack of dogs is a valid form of pest control. Quite weird Rentokil haven't thought of that for their rat catchers or pigeon blokes.

[Turnbull2000]

Good to see the House of Lords doing what it does best - blocking or forcing amendments to ill-thought, populist legislation. Today they've intervened on the Tories Right-to-Buy for Housing Association tenants. Though no doubt this will just encourage Cameron to stuff the House with more of his cronies.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jul/20/reaction-to-camerons-speech-on-tackling-extremism-politics-live#block-55ad1b44e4b0571ff3515ca7

Labour and Liberal Democrats peers combined by 257 votes to 174, majority 83, to force through an amendment to the Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill. The amendment requires the Charity Commission to ensure independent charities are not compelled to use or dispose of assets in a way which is “inconsistent with their charitable purposes

[Hanshithispantz]

From where I sit now, the idea of killing a fox for pleasure feels peculiar and not terribly nice. The idea of owning a horse and perhaps even a red jacket specifically to chase foxes to their deaths seems even more peculiar.
But if you want to do it, I don’t care. Knock yourself out. Go crazy. If you want to hunt foxes, it’s your business, not mine. And that is pretty much where the debate should end.

Dat logic

[Toondave]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11747266/Why-the-spiteful-and-stupid-foxhunting-ban-must-be-reversed.html

Thoughts?

It's bollocks, the man buys the idea that fox hunting is about controlling the numbers, even though it's a fact they breed Foxes to hunt. They never killed anywhere near enough to justify that anyway, more get killed by cars, so surely the conclusion has to be that the Fox population doesn't actually need controlling? f*** knows how the natural world managed before humans came along to "control numbers".

The argument that the majority shouldn't tell the minority what to do naturally falls down when what someone wants to do it harm a living thing. You have to have zero compassion for animals to think this is a good argument.

As for the class war stuff, class is definitely part of the reason alot of people hate it, but it's also the ONLY reason the bloodsport has survived as long as it has and is being supported by the Tories. They always bring up the fact that some poor people are involved, obviously, someone has to do the work, them acting like they are defending working class jobs is completely insincere, and frankly I couldn't give a f*** anyway.


This is a far more informative article on foxhunting.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-fox-hunter-exposes-full-6054986

Should have said that I was primarily thinking about what he said on the classist stuff but , I think some others sort of proved his class war point though..

I'm on the side of the ban being a good thing but what Blair said (“I think on balance it was [a mistake] in the end. Its not that I particularly like hunting or have ever engaged in it. I didn't quite understand, and I reproach myself for this, that for a group of people in our society in the countryside this was a fundamental part of their way of life.”) does stick with me.

Would like to think all those so vehemently opposed to foxhunting are that way because they care about foxes but I really don't think it is the case a lot of the time.

[Disco]

It's very much written for it's audience like, I'll give him that.

[Foluwashola]

Fundamental way of life man. Such bollocks. Imagine the same patter is used for bullfighting in Spain. Passing cruelty off as tradition.

[GeordieMessiah]

Good to see the House of Lords doing what it does best - blocking or forcing amendments to ill-thought, populist legislation. Today they've intervened on the Tories Right-to-Buy for Housing Association tenants. Though no doubt this will just encourage Cameron to stuff the House with more of his cronies.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/jul/20/reaction-to-camerons-speech-on-tackling-extremism-politics-live#block-55ad1b44e4b0571ff3515ca7

Labour and Liberal Democrats peers combined by 257 votes to 174, majority 83, to force through an amendment to the Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill. The amendment requires the Charity Commission to ensure independent charities are not compelled to use or dispose of assets in a way which is “inconsistent with their charitable purposes

Good on those allegedly out-of-touch, undemocratic, elitist Peers, eh? Just goes to show the House of Lords can be a very useful check on the madness of some governments...

[OpenC]

Toondave: it's not so much about class war as it is about some people believing that they can just ignore the law.

I live in the country where this s*** went on, and still does.  It's not 'part of our way of life', it's just something that some people liked to do because they get all excited at the thought of wearing a red jacket and sitting on a horse in public, thinking that people from miles around and their kids will come to see them in the village square, lashing in the sherry, like they used to do in the good old days.  Most of them just like the idea of a fast and unplanned ride around the local fields, which they know perfectly well they can do without killing things.

This isn't classist; I know enough of them (my lass is in the horsey set, although not a hunter) who freely admit that this is the case.  There are those who believe they're providing a vital service to farmers which cannot be provided any other way.  They belong in Beamish.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.  Almost thread worthy

[Toondave]

Toondave: it's not so much about class war as it is about some people believing that they can just ignore the law.

I live in the country.  It's not 'part of our way of life', it's just something that some people liked to do because they get all excited at the thought of wearing a red jacket and sitting on a horse in public, thinking that people from miles around and their kids will come to see them in the village square, lashing in the sherry, like they used to do in the good old days.  Most of them just like the idea of a fast and unplanned ride around the local fields, which they know perfectly well they can do without killing things.

This isn't classist; I know enough of them (my lass is in the horsey set, although not a hunter) who freely admit that this is the case.  There are those who believe they're providing a vital service to farmers which cannot be provided any other way.  They belong in Beamish.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.  Almost thread worthy

Fair enough, do you think though that there is an element of classism amongst support for the ban, not so much amongst those in the country such as yourself but with the more metropolitan lot? For example, if we put the PETA types aside for a second (we can actually leave them there tbh) you don't see the same sort of people who decry foxhunting asking for a ban on Halal or Kosher slaughter - because, now here is my conjecture, that would be seen as racist or antimultikulti.

[Shay's Given Tim Flowers]

Spiritual Belief v Bloodsport probably plays some sort of role in that.

[Toondave]

Spiritual Belief v Bloodsport probably plays some sort of role in that.

Spiritual belief is more important than animal rights? Both are part of culture, whether they're on the same level is irrelevant as I would have thought minimising cruelty was above both.

[Hanshithispantz]

There's a difference between Halal slaughter and setting dogs onto a fox for the craic like, although I agree it should be 'as humane as possible or not at all.'

[OpenC]

No, I would like to think most people who oppose it do so in support of animal welfare.  You get similar antipathy for (for example) badger culling, which isn't seen as an upper middle class thing.

End of the day, I think most people, rabid animal rights people aside, would accept that with no apex predators in this country, it falls to man to organise things; it's just the the arguments for fox hunting in the traditional manner no longer count for much.  People see farmers making do with three wire fences and think, 'well, it's no wonder you're losing livestock'.  If I left my house unlocked, somebody might well steal my computer at some point - but I couldn't justify roaming around and shooting (much less ripping to pieces with dogs) people who look like they might be responsible.  Ridiculous extremes example of course, but seriously: there is no way to physically keep foxes away from lambs or chickens? 

[Shay's Given Tim Flowers]

To put it another way killing meat for consumption v bloodsport.

[Toondave]

To put it another way killing meat for consumption v bloodsport.

so as long as they eat the foxes

[Toondave]

No, I would like to think most people who oppose it do so in support of animal welfare.  You get similar antipathy for (for example) badger culling, which isn't seen as an upper middle class thing.

End of the day, I think most people, rabid animal rights people aside, would accept that with no apex predators in this country, it falls to man to organise things; it's just the the arguments for fox hunting in the traditional manner no longer count for much.  People see farmers making do with three wire fences and think, 'well, it's no wonder you're losing livestock'.  If I left my house unlocked, somebody might well steal my computer at some point - but I couldn't justify roaming around and shooting (much less ripping to pieces with dogs) people who look like they might be responsible.

 

[Shay's Given Tim Flowers]

To put it another way killing meat for consumption v bloodsport.

so as long as they eat the foxes

Depends if it's kosher or Halal #Britainfeast

[GeordieMessiah]

Labour abstaining on the Welfare Bill will come back to haunt them. They're now as good as dead electorally. They've just lost a large swathe of once reliable core voters. Forever.