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Would you take Ben Arfa back?

Yes
I hate football

Author Topic: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France  (Read 967289 times)

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Offline LV

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16175 on: Wednesday 15 May 2019, 02:12:43 pm »
He’s mint

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Offline Away Day Gadgie

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16176 on: Wednesday 15 May 2019, 02:33:49 pm »

Ben Arfa under someone like Sir Bobby would have been pure joy :smitten:

Shame he never really had that sort of person/manager in his career.

Think he'd be good under Eddie Howe, personally.

Good shout.  He’d thrive under that kind of attack-minded stewardship 👍
"I will tell you this once, if you ever tell me to f*** off again, I will crack your skull.”
 - Duncan Ferguson, 1999.

Offline madras

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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16177 on: Wednesday 15 May 2019, 06:10:50 pm »
So he's never had a good manager, then?  This same s*** has happened at every club he's been at.  At some point you have to stop making excuses for him.

Most mansgers in the game are strict disciplinarians who dont appreciate or know how to handle gifted flair players with attitude problems or teamwork issues. Jealousy amongst footballers is also a huge issue which needs strong man management skills. That's why the likes of Sir Bobby and Keegan are so rare because they had the abilities to handle players like this for the good of the club, and why there's way more Pardews and Sounesses who'll hang the likes of Ben Arfa out to dry at every opportunity.

For example when Beresford complained to Keegan about Ginola not tracking back, Keegan told him to not worry about what Ginola does because Ginola would win more games for the team. Basically a "stfu and get on with your job". A lesser manager would've tried to "fix" Ginola and then bench/exile him for "not listening" when these players' personalities are part of what makes them the players they are. Of course some genius flair players are going to have poor attitudes, their arrogance and ego is very much what drives their playstyle.

On top of that players like Ben Arfa are generally not good or consistent enough for the bigger sides to bother with. They can get players of a similar ability level without the flaws. Ben Arfa needed to be at a "sleeping giant" type of club who can't attract players of his ability level without the flaws, clubs where its worth putting up with the flaws or compensating for them through tactics/teammates (and telling those teammates to stfu when they whinge) because the player can propel them to heights it's otherwise very hard to achieve. When Hatem hit good form for us in a formation that allowed him more freedom to attack and less defensive duties, we finished 5th, and we've not had a player anywhere near as good since. We should have had the side built around him, but again, a manager who couldn't handle him was in charge. Unfortunately most managers would rather work with a Ritchie or Atsu than a Ben Arfa.

So odds were always against Ben Arfa establishing himself over a long term. Needs both right club and right manager in place. For us it was right club, wrong manager. For PSG it was both wrong. For Nice it was both right. For France he never stood a chance with a disciplinarian like Deschamps.

He's just unlucky he never found the right combination for long enough, and the buggest blame on him should be his choice of club/manager to sign for. Had he signed for Barca instead of PSG I suspect the latter part of his career would've been different.

Ben Arfa under someone like Sir Bobby would have been pure joy :smitten:

Shame he never really had that sort of person/manager in his career.
Is it worth asking why managers of that style all round Europe never came for him ?

My opinion purely but I dont think SBR or Keegan would have signed him.
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Offline godzilla

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16178 on: Wednesday 15 May 2019, 06:23:36 pm »
So he's never had a good manager, then?  This same s*** has happened at every club he's been at.  At some point you have to stop making excuses for him.

Most mansgers in the game are strict disciplinarians who dont appreciate or know how to handle gifted flair players with attitude problems or teamwork issues. Jealousy amongst footballers is also a huge issue which needs strong man management skills. That's why the likes of Sir Bobby and Keegan are so rare because they had the abilities to handle players like this for the good of the club, and why there's way more Pardews and Sounesses who'll hang the likes of Ben Arfa out to dry at every opportunity.

For example when Beresford complained to Keegan about Ginola not tracking back, Keegan told him to not worry about what Ginola does because Ginola would win more games for the team. Basically a "stfu and get on with your job". A lesser manager would've tried to "fix" Ginola and then bench/exile him for "not listening" when these players' personalities are part of what makes them the players they are. Of course some genius flair players are going to have poor attitudes, their arrogance and ego is very much what drives their playstyle.

On top of that players like Ben Arfa are generally not good or consistent enough for the bigger sides to bother with. They can get players of a similar ability level without the flaws. Ben Arfa needed to be at a "sleeping giant" type of club who can't attract players of his ability level without the flaws, clubs where its worth putting up with the flaws or compensating for them through tactics/teammates (and telling those teammates to stfu when they whinge) because the player can propel them to heights it's otherwise very hard to achieve. When Hatem hit good form for us in a formation that allowed him more freedom to attack and less defensive duties, we finished 5th, and we've not had a player anywhere near as good since. We should have had the side built around him, but again, a manager who couldn't handle him was in charge. Unfortunately most managers would rather work with a Ritchie or Atsu than a Ben Arfa.

So odds were always against Ben Arfa establishing himself over a long term. Needs both right club and right manager in place. For us it was right club, wrong manager. For PSG it was both wrong. For Nice it was both right. For France he never stood a chance with a disciplinarian like Deschamps.

He's just unlucky he never found the right combination for long enough, and the buggest blame on him should be his choice of club/manager to sign for. Had he signed for Barca instead of PSG I suspect the latter part of his career would've been different.

Ben Arfa under someone like Sir Bobby would have been pure joy :smitten:

Shame he never really had that sort of person/manager in his career.
Is it worth asking why managers of that style all round Europe never came for him ?

My opinion purely but I dont think SBR or Keegan would have signed him.

or Rafa. The lad has talent but his attitude is questionable (you can say the same about Shelvey also).

Offline OCK

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16179 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 10:32:04 am »
Only seems to be a problem when he isn't playing, which goes with his cocky/confident attitude. I'm the same way like, I know I'm the bestest in the world, so I get well miffed when I'm picked last.

Offline sixx

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16180 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 10:36:01 am »
I dunno. A big part of his appeal for me is his enfant terrible attitude. He's probably horrible to work with at times but I don't really care.

Offline huss9

  • General Member
  • heathen
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16181 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 10:44:39 am »
dont think there was ever any real bad attitude on the pitch when he turned out for us.
just tried to do it all himself sometimes when pardew chucked him on at the end if we were losing.
john gibson in the chronicle this afternoon;
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Offline Ian W

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  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16182 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 10:51:23 am »
He's never had a bad attitude on the pitch, supposedly it all happens behind the scenes.

Offline Newcastle Fan

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  • NUFC forever
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16183 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 11:45:31 pm »
Ahh man I feel really lucky to have watched him that season we finished 5th, and was there for both his Blackburn and Bolton goals :love:

Offline Kanji

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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16184 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 01:40:39 am »
He had 0 issue with Puel. Puel let him do his thing and they had their best season in ages. He only left Nice because his childhood club was in for him and Puel was leaving too, right?
"We are not a stepping stone, we are Newcastle United." - Rafa Benitez

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16185 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 08:24:47 am »
Yep.

Offline ManDoon

  • General Member
Re: Hatem Ben Arfa - Rennes win Coupe de France
« Reply #16186 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 09:43:20 am »
I dunno. A big part of his appeal for me is his enfant terrible attitude. He's probably horrible to work with at times but I don't really care.

Same here
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
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