Author Topic: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?  (Read 582 times)

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Offline Rafalove

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The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 05:20:01 PM »
So over the last few years we have seen Donald Trump start a trade war with China. We’ve seen the Communist party clashing with pro democracy protestors in Hong Kong and gradually take away their rights. It would also seem to be the case they are now coming down on Australia very hard for calling for an international investigation in to Covid-19. Britain is now, thinking about rolling back 5G networks over security concerns.
Are we heading for a Cold War? What is the best way to handle China? Can we work with them?

Offline Kaizero

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 05:21:21 PM »
Remove Trump from office and there'll be no major issues that normal diplomacy can't resolve.
But only in their dreams can men be truly free. It was always thus and always thus will be.

Offline Rafalove

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 05:32:56 PM »
You think? I’m not convinced. Many of Trumps issues are fairly valid are they not? CCP does have a problem with intellectual property theft and they have benefited from favourable Trading terms. I would probably agree though Trump could have raised certain issues perhaps in private with Xi Jinping or raised them more delicately before coming out all guns blazing. That doesn’t mean the out come would have been any better. Just look recently at the Action towards Australia. Slapping tariffs on Barley for daring to ask for an enquiry in to what happened in quite a respectful manner.

Offline Kaizero

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 05:36:58 PM »
A President that knew how to handle politics and diplomacy would make any fears moot at this point in time between the west and the east. There's no need for the current escalation, and a change of presidency will sort that. Trumps antagonistic nature has changed the face of international politics, has it gone beyond what is salvageable? I don't believe it has, an actual President will roll back a lot of the issues and things will become normalized again. On the other hand, four more years and I think it will change the world for the worse for a long period of time.
But only in their dreams can men be truly free. It was always thus and always thus will be.

Offline samptime29

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 05:41:35 PM »
Remove Trump from office and there'll be no major issues that normal diplomacy can't resolve.

Yep. It's not in China's benefit to have a war with the West.

A Trump f*** up could cause problems, but agree with you here.

Offline Raconteur

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 10:50:48 PM »
China’s actions re Australia need to be viewed through the lens of some fairly open anti-Chinese sentiment from Australian politicians. We have our own cuntservative anti-“communist” politicians, but we’ve also had a string of politicians proven to be in the pocket of the CCP. We have stupid hawks who want to sail though the South China Sea in our rusty tugboats next to the American aircraft carriers, and we have a Home Office run by a fascist who has created the boogeyman of Chinese students being spies.

So China has been waiting to give Australia a kick in the nuts and Scott f***ing Morrison gave them the opportunity. Why the f*** he had to take the lead on this... oh, wait. Someone told Scotty from Marketing it would look good...
Steve Bruce: Ashley Enabler.

"I have heard lots of nonsense about tactics but the big thing is about showing pride and having a go." 29/09/19

Offline Tyne81

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 10:16:40 AM »
The practices they have allowed to go on causing many spreads of infectious diseases globally and the tiny matter of their human rights should equal a harsh comeback but it won't as cash is king so suck it up and move on.

Offline BlufPurdi

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 10:33:40 AM »
There'll be no cold war. A trade war, yeah, but nah on the rest. Depends on the US mind, if they retain Trump all bets are off, anything could happen, but if Biden does get in there will be much more international cooperation. China's needed much more than needing to remind them to do better on human rights, they're integral to any fight against climate change and increasingly gaining control all over Africa so losing them loses a lot plays there too.

The UK are absolutely gagging for significant trade deals, so whilst they might roll over on the 5G stuff, they'll give so many concessions elsewhere just to wave a 'trade deal' around to the British public that it'll be nothing other than a gesture to the general China paranoia of the west right now. The fact we've even entertained the 5G stuff shows how staggeringly desperate we are. Although, personally I don't care about it and it is indeed hyperparanoia stuff.

Conversely, if Trump does get reelected, there's a good chance that pushes the EU further away and just as likely to be a trade war there too. No cold wars, just more trade wars with different blocs. Guy's mental, wants Civ style total domination victory.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Raconteur

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 11:43:20 AM »
I dunno, Bluf, there’s plenty of hawks to wave shiny war plans in Trump’s face.

There’s already indications that the US is trying to muscle up against China (in a typically clumsy, Trumpian manner): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/23/us-security-officials-considered-return-to-nuclear-testing-after-28-year-hiatus
Steve Bruce: Ashley Enabler.

"I have heard lots of nonsense about tactics but the big thing is about showing pride and having a go." 29/09/19

Offline BlufPurdi

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 11:45:49 AM »
Is that a pointer towards a new cold war, or just an egotistical arms race? Genuine question. :dontknow:

He's been weird on the nuclear weapons issue since he arrived. :lol:
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 02:40:20 PM »
Is that a pointer towards a new cold war, or just an egotistical arms race? Genuine question. :dontknow:

He's been weird on the nuclear weapons issue since he arrived. :lol:

Isn't it the same thing? The cold war only existed to drive the arms race, and increase global sales.

Offline BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 25 May 2020, 03:19:13 PM »
Well yeah, I had meant to say initially that it depends what you mean by cold war. Literally speaking, we're basically already in one and have been for the last few years if not the decade, with Russia and or China. As for it escalating to the standards of the previous cold war I'm not sure. There were proxy wars all over the world fought between the two, for sustained periods. That's kind of yet to materialise (Ukraine might be the exception and that's no China), even if a trade war here or an arms race there have. Not sure it ever will, although there's still plenty of spark available in the likes of Venezuela and the Middle East, and sure elsewhere.

Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Doctor Zaius

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 30 May 2020, 06:58:01 AM »
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/politics/trump-china-announcement/index.html

Big don going for it. Fuckin heedthaball c*** that he is

Offline Raconteur

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  • I don't see any method at all, sir
Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 30 May 2020, 08:32:22 AM »
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/politics/trump-china-announcement/index.html

Big don going for it. Fuckin heedthaball c*** that he is

Soon enough, Trump and Miller are going to find Taiwan on a map and ask "What's the go with this little island?"

If he wants to light a touchpaper, then recognising Taiwan will do that (and he's got form with Jerusalem). But it's hard to see this as anything except noise for his base. You'd expect the Chinese to dominate Don if the gloves came off for real.
Steve Bruce: Ashley Enabler.

"I have heard lots of nonsense about tactics but the big thing is about showing pride and having a go." 29/09/19

Offline Gorilla

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 30 May 2020, 08:35:30 AM »
We'll get through Coronavirus then this prick will start a major war.

Offline Rafalove

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Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 30 May 2020, 01:16:18 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-52842303


Could be offering a path to citezinship in the uk for Hing Kongers with British passport holders.

Offline Raconteur

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  • I don't see any method at all, sir
Re: The west v The Chinese Communist party. Cold War on the horizon?
« Reply #16 on: Monday 1 June 2020, 05:51:42 AM »
Much as I may chuckle cynically, this has genuinely frightening implications - imagine what hell could be unleashed if China truly flips Trumps switch...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/01/mr-president-dont-go-hide-china-goads-us-over-george-floyd-protests
Steve Bruce: Ashley Enabler.

"I have heard lots of nonsense about tactics but the big thing is about showing pride and having a go." 29/09/19