Topic: Scottish Independence - No Wins!

[pedro111]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

I think England needs Scotland more then Scotland needs England.

Errr, how? We benefit from the oil and?.....

[mrmojorisin75]

Aren't we stronger as a collection of nations rather then being individual nations, ie Europe will swallow us all.

we're a f***ing joke as we are, don't see how breaking up will make things any worse

when i say worse i mean for everyone but england - i think breaking up would be a disaster for england personally, politics would go right-wing to the max and we'd become the island nation the tories always wanted

I would dread the day!

Id move to scotland or if I have the money fcking off to Canada, NZ, or Aus.

mind if i was scottish i'd be on the streets campaigning like a motherfucker to go indi like - assuming they could get the oil money (how can they by the way?)

never understood unionists from scotland, wales and ni personally, can't compute it

[Northerngimp]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

I think England needs Scotland more then Scotland needs England.

Errr, how? We benefit from the oil and?.....

I wasn't talking about it from a resources point of view, more about the issue thay Scotland brings a bit of balance.  Otherwise england will be a tory country.

[mrmojorisin75]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

I think England needs Scotland more then Scotland needs England.

Errr, how? We benefit from the oil and?.....

there doesn't need to be anything else einstein, look at the f***ing taxes the tories have just hit the oil companies with - that all goes away

think petrol is expensive now?  imagine jock mctavish selling it to the english

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Every government will tax the f*** out of fuel, you don't need to worry about that.

[mrmojorisin75]

Every government will tax the f*** out of fuel, you don't need to worry about that.

population of scotland is the key though isn't it ian?  salmond has a plan and it if i was a jock it'd sound pretty f***ing good to me

[The Prophet]

Do it, it'll be fun watching reality sink in

[mrmojorisin75]

Do it, it'll be fun watching reality sink in

who do what?

[Tooj]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

This.

[CaliMag]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

That is a good ficking point and a large part of the reason that Scotland is even considering this in the first place.

Thatcher and the Tories really had it in for the North and were pretty severe towards the NE... they were even worse towards Scotland. I still remember the Poll Tax fiasco in Scotland of 1989-1990.

[SiLvOR]

I'm all for Scottish independence, and you can add Welsh and Irish independence in to the pot to boot. IMO England is under represented in Westminster and foots the bill for the other countries while not getting the same benefits like free prescriptions, no tuition fees, drugs that are restricted in England due to cost but available in Scotland etc etc. The whole idea of the Union is past it's sell by date and devolution has only served to hasten the full break-up of it. It would have happened eventually. England should have it's own parliament and take control of her own affairs as should the other members of the union.

This isn't a racist thing by the way. Colour or religion don't come in to it. It's purely about people living in England, regardless of ethnicity, being ripped off by the rest of the UK.

Spot on mate.

[mrmojorisin75]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

That is a good ficking point and a large part of the reason that Scotland is even considering this in the first place.

Thatcher and the Tories really had it in for the North and were pretty severe towards the NE... they were even worse towards Scotland. I still remember the Poll Tax fiasco in Scotland of 1989-1990.

[CheickMansour]

It would mean Conservative governments forever in England, like.

Aye, I think it's the one thing that makes this even a possibility. Otherwise I don't think it would even be an issue.

If you come from a country that consistently votes for the left but you're constantly ruled by the Conservatives and the like (Lib dems and labour are barely different), then it must get pretty tiring.

Personally I'm against for that very reason. If devolution appeals to anyone, just think of years of endless Tory hell. Plus, I moved up to Scotland many year ago and found them to be much more similar to the North in terms of attitudes etc compared to those down south. Like someone suggested earlier, it would be interesting if the North were to break away with them. It won't happen though.

[cp40]

why hasnt jock mcGM had his two penneth in this thread?


i say fk em if they dont want us- fk off, bomb the b******s.










on the other hand, maybe not so good to break the union up, had some canny holidays in jocko land , might not of went if it was foreign.

[CheickMansour]

I'm all for Scottish independence, and you can add Welsh and Irish independence in to the pot to boot. IMO England is under represented in Westminster and foots the bill for the other countries while not getting the same benefits like free prescriptions, no tuition fees, drugs that are restricted in England due to cost but available in Scotland etc etc. The whole idea of the Union is past it's sell by date and devolution has only served to hasten the full break-up of it. It would have happened eventually. England should have it's own parliament and take control of her own affairs as should the other members of the union.

This isn't a racist thing by the way. Colour or religion don't come in to it. It's purely about people living in England, regardless of ethnicity, being ripped off by the rest of the UK.

I don't know about Wales or Ireland, but doesn't Scotland receives its money as a block grant, which it then chooses to divide and use as it wants? It's not like free prescriptions drain money from England's NHS budget. Instead, x amount of money is set aside for Scotland and it receives that money regardless of whether they have free prescriptions/ free university or not.

[AfroP]

they would be doomed to fail on they're own
majority of the NHS and public services are paid for with tax revenue generated here, unemployment and alcoholism are rife in Scotland and many of the skilled workers come to the UK to find work and better paying jobs.

If they do seperate from us I think we should charge them rent for taking up the top half of our island :-)

[ross magoo]

I'm not opposed to it in principle but somebody would need to put forward a good economic argument in its favour first and i'm still waiting for that to happen.  There are a lot of questions still to be answered such as what would an independent Scotland have done about the RBS collapse (go to the IMF with our begging bowl is not an acceptable answer).  I want to know what the SNP's plans are for job & wealth creation, health, education etc post-independence but so far they've been pretty reluctant to get into that discussion, it's all been a bit too "vote for independence first and we'll sort out the important stuff later" for my liking.

So right now it's a no from me but if they can come up with a plan that stacks up then i am open to having my mind changed.  However i won't hold my breath on that given that in my experience most of the SNP's support comes from parochial anti-English bigots who aren't even interested in the politics or economics of it unfortunately.

[GeordieMessiah]

[indi]

I wouldn't want to see Scotland leave the union, I don't think it would be in either the Scottish or the British interests, we'd all be worse off I reckon.

As for Northern Ireland I'm not so sure, it'd be tempting to just let it be someone else's problem, but rationally the same thing probably applies to them and all.

[GeordieMessiah]

As someone born in Newcastle, but who has lived most his life in Scotland, I've got an arseful of splinters from having sat on the fence on this issue for years. On balance, if I think about it then I have to admit I have a good deal of sympathy with those who call for greater autonomy for Scotland, not least because of what Thatcher did to this country and the Poll Tax being just one of them, but I'm not in favour of independence. I think I'd actually favour a system of federal government with power devolved to all four home nations, each having their own Parliament (possibly with England having two assemblies, one for North of England and another for the South of England). I think that would ensure that every area had a more representative system of government, and a greater degree of self-determination in terms of social and economic policy. I'd also want the House of Lords to become an elected UK-wide Senate with overall control of defence, foreign affairs and international development. That would make sense to me.

There's no clear, definitive evidence on whether Scotland could actually go it alone successfully, or if there is I have yet to see it, but these recent news stories make for interesting reading if you're bothered enough to equip yourselves with some slightly more informed opinion on the issue, rather than rolling out half-arsed, dog-eared, cliché-ridden, angst laden tripe that dogs this debate.

• http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/22/new-study-undermines-economic-independence-scotland
• http://news.scotsman.com/scottishindependence/Michael-Keating-How-can-Scotland.6785081.jp
• http://news.stv.tv/scotland/253188-snp-economic-adviser-unsure-of-benefits-independence-would-bring/

I have to say the comments in this thread by some folks about wanting to escape to Scotland to escape the ravages of Tory government have put a wry smile of recognition on my face. After all, it was only 7 years ago that the North-East was given an opportunity to have its own Assembly which was rejected at the time, quite forcefully: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3984387.stm

[indi]

Yep, you lot f***ed it all for the rest of us too.

[indi]

"you lot" being the north east, not GM and the rest of the sporran wearers.

[GeordieMessiah]

"you lot" being the north east, not GM and the rest of the sporran wearers.

I am not actually Scottish, nor do I own or have I ever worn a sporran.

But I take your point otherwise.

[indi]

Dinae fash y'sell big yin, ah ken ya noo a Scot.

[GeordieMessiah]

Dinae fash y'sell big yin, ah ken ya noo a Scot.