Author Topic: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions  (Read 60918 times)

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Offline Disco

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1100 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 11:07:21 AM »

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1101 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 11:07:24 AM »
Jesus man  :lol:

Mind I can see why you might laugh when comparing to other North East wages, as it is a massive increase on the average regional wage. To be fair though when you look on a National average of what a Traindriver is paid, then the actual rise they are requesting has some substance. People could argue that is what they signed up for when they joined up, but the terms and conditions have changed a fair bit and will change again with the introduction of the new fleet. Currently your average Metro Traindriver is looking to move on within a couple of year to another TOC for much higher wages.

You would be surprised how much turnover there has been over the last five year especially. There is a big cost with training a new driver over roughly a 12 week period, having to do this at very frequent levels due to high staff turnover is not cost effective. There is also a requirement to have a stable and consolidated staffing establishment in place to ensure that there is full cover for the operation of the service, specifically with the introduction of the new fleet in the not too distant future.

I understand the reasons for them asking for that, its just its a whopping lift to get them to that salary.  Especially when there seems to be constant emergency and planned maintenance required on the system.   If they are given this upscale in salary will there be less investment into the system or would the cost be pushed to the commuter?

Good question the first point concerning investment is that no it wouldn’t effect that as the government has already agreed increased investment to upgrading the system both in terms of the infrastructure (already happening) and the fleet (upcoming). The second point I can’t say positively no, but I would be surprised if fees would be increased on the back of increased payments to a section of staff. Remember the Metro funding comes from local government and I just don’t think they would allow that to happen.

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1102 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 01:17:32 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Online neesy111

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1103 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 01:27:03 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Already do it on the DLR, a number of tube lines can switch it on as well.

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1104 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 01:29:58 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Years off, if at all. The current (driver operated trains) have lasted 40 years and I would imagine that the new (again driver operated trains) would have a similar lifeline. Unless there was radical changes to UK policy regarding the operation of trains, then I can't see this changing much either.

Offline BottledDog

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1105 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 02:50:02 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Years off, if at all. The current (driver operated trains) have lasted 40 years and I would imagine that the new (again driver operated trains) would have a similar lifeline. Unless there was radical changes to UK policy regarding the operation of trains, then I can't see this changing much either.

Not totally sure why though. As pointed out by neesyoneoneone, the DLR has been driver less since 1987.
Guessing Mainlines, where there are some complex crossovers into other lines might be tricky to upgrade, but surely the Metro was, and is, ripe for it?
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Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1106 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 04:02:52 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Years off, if at all. The current (driver operated trains) have lasted 40 years and I would imagine that the new (again driver operated trains) would have a similar lifeline. Unless there was radical changes to UK policy regarding the operation of trains, then I can't see this changing much either.

Not totally sure why though. As pointed out by neesyoneoneone, the DLR has been driver less since 1987.
Guessing Mainlines, where there are some complex crossovers into other lines might be tricky to upgrade, but surely the Metro was, and is, ripe for it?

You just answered your own point as Nexus from Pelaw operates onto Network Rail infrastructure and runs in tandem with mainline TOCs.

Offline ikri

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1107 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 04:23:52 PM »
Train drivers shouldn't be on £50k a year, man, that's mental :lol:

Check sometime just how many people die on metro/train lines.  It's pretty high.  I've been told previously that the average train driver kills one person per year.

50k might sound like a lot, but that's basically hazard pay.

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1108 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 05:03:28 PM »
Train drivers shouldn't be on £50k a year, man, that's mental :lol:

Check sometime just how many people die on metro/train lines.  It's pretty high.  I've been told previously that the average train driver kills one person per year.

50k might sound like a lot, but that's basically hazard pay.

You’re not kidding either and as someone who has been involved in the removal of the bodies it is a harrowing experience. Metro drivers also work longer shifts and have to deal with passengers (at times threatening) compared to mainline TOCs.

Offline LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1109 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:33:05 PM »
What do people think someone who is responsible for transporting hundreds of people safely should be paid?

£50K a year doesn't sound that much to me considering the shifts they work and the crappy trains they have to drive. Dealing with certain members of the public isn't fun either.
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Offline Wullie

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1110 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:35:16 PM »
Wouldn't imagine train drivers have much to do with the public.
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Online Infinitely Content

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1111 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:37:49 PM »
Anyone know when this is likely to be resolved? Proper nightmare coming back from work earlier this evening like, feels s**** when the journey home significantly eats into the evening.

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1112 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:39:06 PM »
Wouldn't imagine train drivers have much to do with the public.

Metro ones do other TOCs no they don’t

Offline LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1113 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:42:07 PM »
Wouldn't imagine train drivers have much to do with the public.

When a passenger is unwell and an ambulance is called, the train waits at the station until the medics arrive. Have you never been on a Metro when a charver has been causing bother? The driver calls the police. I've read about charvers attacking the driver compartment. Also the scum who throw stones, etc at the trains. There'll be more public interactions than you think (and the driver would want).
Thier is not a word. "Their" is the correct spelling.

Win, Lose or Draw. NOT "Loose"!

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1114 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 09:53:51 PM »
Wouldn't imagine train drivers have much to do with the public.

When a passenger is unwell and an ambulance is called, the train waits at the station until the medics arrive. Have you never been on a Metro when a charver has been causing bother? The driver calls the police. I've read about charvers attacking the driver compartment. Also the scum who throw stones, etc at the trains. There'll be more public interactions than you think (and the driver would want).

Umpteen more also including dealing with passengers when faults occur e.g. door fault, the driver has to leave the cab, wade through passengers to check the door and then isolate the door if there is a fault, whilst having passengers then asking what’s going on (sometimes abusively)

Offline Wullie

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1115 on: Tuesday 3 December 2019, 11:55:22 PM »
Ah fair enough didn't know that.
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Offline loki679

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1116 on: Wednesday 4 December 2019, 04:01:17 AM »
Walk down a train, lock a door and talk to people. 50k please. :lol:

People in much harder jobs get much less
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Online neesy111

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1117 on: Wednesday 4 December 2019, 04:31:28 AM »
Walk down a train, lock a door and talk to people. 50k please. :lol:

People in much harder jobs get much less

And people in much easier jobs get far more...

Offline LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1118 on: Wednesday 4 December 2019, 10:39:08 AM »
Pay soldiers and nurses Metro driver wages!
Thier is not a word. "Their" is the correct spelling.

Win, Lose or Draw. NOT "Loose"!

Offline Northerngimp

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1119 on: Wednesday 4 December 2019, 11:08:00 AM »

Online Optimistic Nut

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1120 on: Thursday 5 December 2019, 06:04:37 AM »
I’m sure I saw on Facebook someone saying should a Metro driver earn as much as a nurse actually. :lol:
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Offline Northerngimp

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1121 on: Thursday 5 December 2019, 08:55:28 AM »
I’m sure I saw on Facebook someone saying should a Metro driver earn as much as a nurse actually. :lol:

Nurse at the top of his or her pay grade or a young'un working their way up the ladder?

Offline sadnesstan

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1122 on: Thursday 5 December 2019, 02:54:50 PM »
Everybody wants more.

Offline madras

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1123 on: Thursday 5 December 2019, 04:34:28 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Years off, if at all. The current (driver operated trains) have lasted 40 years and I would imagine that the new (again driver operated trains) would have a similar lifeline. Unless there was radical changes to UK policy regarding the operation of trains, then I can't see this changing much either.

Not totally sure why though. As pointed out by neesyoneoneone, the DLR has been driver less since 1987.
Guessing Mainlines, where there are some complex crossovers into other lines might be tricky to upgrade, but surely the Metro was, and is, ripe for it?

More that they are basically sealed from things on the tracks, unlike most of the rail network.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Online godzilla

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Re: The Metro - Upgrades, issues, hundreds of billions
« Reply #1124 on: Thursday 5 December 2019, 07:20:47 PM »
At some point driver less trains will be considered which will remove the cost of a driver altogether.  :undecided:

Years off, if at all. The current (driver operated trains) have lasted 40 years and I would imagine that the new (again driver operated trains) would have a similar lifeline. Unless there was radical changes to UK policy regarding the operation of trains, then I can't see this changing much either.

Not totally sure why though. As pointed out by neesyoneoneone, the DLR has been driver less since 1987.
Guessing Mainlines, where there are some complex crossovers into other lines might be tricky to upgrade, but surely the Metro was, and is, ripe for it?

More that they are basically sealed from things on the tracks, unlike most of the rail network.

I could virtually write a book on the reasons why driver(less) trains would be an improbability on the Metro system