Author Topic: WikiLeaks  (Read 25162 times)

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Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #500 on: Friday 12 April 2019, 10:53:29 pm »
I somehow highly doubt that he was motivated to not spread dirt on Trump because of fear of private prosecution. Sounds like an exemplar of grasping at straws to me.

You don't believe he considered the legal consequences of his actions. Okay. I'm happy to leave it at that.


I am not convinced that the legal consequences of his actions were a massive part of his rationale. I am also not terribly convinced that he is necessarily much of a rational thinker, as it is not a stretch to guess that he has a solid case of NPD. I also think your excuses for his actions are highly unrealistic, and fall into the trap of assuming everything everyone does is for rational reasons. Assange doing it because Trump hinted at making his legal troubles go away would probably be more likely than him worrying about private prosecution.

Was what he revealed, about Hilary, in the public interest?

Is there anything he could have revealead, but didn't, about Trump, that would have been in the public interest?


Absolutely. It's been pretty well-known since the 1980's all the shady s*** Trump has been up to. The fact that he is so adamant about hiding his tax returns should raise even more suspicions. It is in the public interest to see the extent of criminal connections and personal criminality of a potential f***ing president.

Of course it is. I've never said it wasn't, but by your own admission "It's been pretty well-known since the 1980's all the shady s*** Trump has been up to." so I'm not sure what WikiLeaks could have added to the debate that would have swung the election the other way.

I'm not American so I don't give a f*** which corrupt piece of s*** they elect as president. I do care who is foisted upon us as "leader of the free world". And Hilary's actions were carried out in her duties to that position. Every f***er over a certain level of earnings is avoiding tax, I have long given up hope of having a LOTFW who is financially transparent. However I still think there are enough people who don't kill innocent civilians to take up the role.

Offline QuakesMag

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  • Telling it how it isn't
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #501 on: Friday 12 April 2019, 11:23:50 pm »
I somehow highly doubt that he was motivated to not spread dirt on Trump because of fear of private prosecution. Sounds like an exemplar of grasping at straws to me.

You don't believe he considered the legal consequences of his actions. Okay. I'm happy to leave it at that.


I am not convinced that the legal consequences of his actions were a massive part of his rationale. I am also not terribly convinced that he is necessarily much of a rational thinker, as it is not a stretch to guess that he has a solid case of NPD. I also think your excuses for his actions are highly unrealistic, and fall into the trap of assuming everything everyone does is for rational reasons. Assange doing it because Trump hinted at making his legal troubles go away would probably be more likely than him worrying about private prosecution.

Was what he revealed, about Hilary, in the public interest?

Is there anything he could have revealead, but didn't, about Trump, that would have been in the public interest?


Absolutely. It's been pretty well-known since the 1980's all the shady s*** Trump has been up to. The fact that he is so adamant about hiding his tax returns should raise even more suspicions. It is in the public interest to see the extent of criminal connections and personal criminality of a potential f***ing president.

Of course it is. I've never said it wasn't, but by your own admission "It's been pretty well-known since the 1980's all the shady s*** Trump has been up to." so I'm not sure what WikiLeaks could have added to the debate that would have swung the election the other way.

I'm not American so I don't give a f*** which corrupt piece of s*** they elect as president. I do care who is foisted upon us as "leader of the free world". And Hilary's actions were carried out in her duties to that position. Every f***er over a certain level of earnings is avoiding tax, I have long given up hope of having a LOTFW who is financially transparent. However I still think there are enough people who don't kill innocent civilians to take up the role.


You are using an absurd bit of false equivalence. "Both are corrupt, so it's all the same." is so intellectually lazy that it's almost not even worth responding to when someone says it. Trump has made a career out of grifting people, and has shown for decades to manifest sociopathy on a level we have likely never seen in the White House for a century or more. It was obvious from day 1 of his campaign he was going to do the horrible s*** he was going to do if elected president. Hillary is fairly odious, and represents the neo-liberal order at some of its most cynical.  I deplore on so many levels many of the policy choices she supported, but to make her out to be this evil, bloodthirsty warmonger is a stretch, to say the least. Trump on the other hand is the type who would go to war just to politically save his own ass.

It didn't take 2 years of his dog s*** presidency to see that. It was obvious from the outset of his campaign. If Assange was really in it for the service of the public, then he would have happily tried to hack into Trump's many dark secrets - secrets that are already coming out in spades. And the election was so tight, who knows? The Stormy Daniels s*** may have tipped it in Hillary's favor. The many facets of the Russia investigation as well. So that is what Wikileaks could have added to the debate that may have swung the election the other way.

What Hillary did with the emails was f***ed up and utterly idiotic. But even worse, it's been common practice within the last three administrations, and even continues to be a common practice in Trump's (Assange possibly couldn't know that the last point would be the case, granted). On a side note, it particularly pisses my dad off as he worked for the DoD. If he did, he would have been crucified. But they all knew that this private server s*** was on epidemic proportions with higher administration officials since the latter days of Clinton.

When you are running for president, the level of scrutiny should be the same for all candidates, unless you have a very specific agenda, which Assange apparently did.



Not one of the cool kids, and really insecure about it.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #502 on: Friday 12 April 2019, 11:52:00 pm »
I'm quite clearly NOT saying that it's all the same. Revelations about the actions of individuals whilst in political office, is very different to proving somebody fiddles their tax.

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #503 on: Tuesday 16 April 2019, 07:51:08 am »
I somehow highly doubt that he was motivated to not spread dirt on Trump because of fear of private prosecution. Sounds like an exemplar of grasping at straws to me.

You don't believe he considered the legal consequences of his actions. Okay. I'm happy to leave it at that.


I am not convinced that the legal consequences of his actions were a massive part of his rationale. I am also not terribly convinced that he is necessarily much of a rational thinker, as it is not a stretch to guess that he has a solid case of NPD. I also think your excuses for his actions are highly unrealistic, and fall into the trap of assuming everything everyone does is for rational reasons. Assange doing it because Trump hinted at making his legal troubles go away would probably be more likely than him worrying about private prosecution.

Was what he revealed, about Hilary, in the public interest?

Is there anything he could have revealead, but didn't, about Trump, that would have been in the public interest?

He met with smiley-faced-fascist Nigel Farage in secret a year or two ago.
A good example of the old adage that your enemy's enemies are not necessarily your friend.

Offline Troll

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #504 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 03:51:25 pm »
:lol:  Turns out Ecuador kicked him out for smearing his own s*** on the walls.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #505 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:02:15 pm »
Yeah, that's clearly bollocks.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Anderson

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #506 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:04:18 pm »
POIDH
Newcastle 4-4 Arsenal: "From impending tragedy to near-triumph via the most improbable route possible - 95 minutes that neatly encapsulate 130 years of football on this particular piece of grass. Newcastle, United, will never be defeated."

Sir Bobby Robson - What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses or the marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

Offline Troll

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Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #507 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:14:31 pm »

firetotheworks

  • Guest
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #508 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:16:50 pm »
I wouldn't trust anything that comes out about him now tbh, from either side.

Offline BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #509 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:28:29 pm »
I thought you'd be able to see a bit of PR like.  He's been kicked out because it was an untenable situation to begin with, and because his country was losing friends, fast, by continuing to do it.  The negotiations have been going on for years now, the idea that s*** appearing on the wall was the sudden catalyst is just so farcical I'm surprised anyone even printed it.  It's been obvious for a bout 2 years that it was set to happen.  I suppose Mr Moreno was just making sure the US wouldn't execute him after the s*** smearing, seems reasonable. :rolleyes:

It's true he's been intolerable so I'm not sticking up for him, but I'm not letting that go unchallenged.  Clearly a lot of s**** and the spin game is in effect.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

firetotheworks

  • Guest
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #510 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:39:44 pm »
Not to beat a dead horse, but the reaction to this reminds me of the Dankula stuff in that, yet again, who the person is has dictated the reaction amongst a lot of people as if it's completely impossible for them to wrap their head around the concept of not liking someone, but also completely disagreeing with the way they've been treated and the precedent that it sets.

Offline BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #511 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 04:55:05 pm »
Aye, agree completely.  It's exactly why they're making so much of his behaviour in the embassy now.  They didn't care when it made them look like they were standing up for the little guy, with a boisterous Hugo Chavez backing them up.  They were all alone in the end though, with the noose tightening round their and the other Left leaning nation's necks of South America. 

But they needed an IMF bailout, which by no means coincidentally was approved the day after Assange's arrest.  :rolleyes: :lol:

s***, on the walls, everyone, look over there.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Troll

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #512 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 05:05:07 pm »
I thought you'd be able to see a bit of PR like.  He's been kicked out because it was an untenable situation to begin with, and because his country was losing friends, fast, by continuing to do it.  The negotiations have been going on for years now, the idea that s*** appearing on the wall was the sudden catalyst is just so farcical I'm surprised anyone even printed it.  It's been obvious for a bout 2 years that it was set to happen.  I suppose Mr Moreno was just making sure the US wouldn't execute him after the s*** smearing, seems reasonable. :rolleyes:

It's true he's been intolerable so I'm not sticking up for him, but I'm not letting that go unchallenged.  Clearly a lot of s**** and the spin game is in effect.

You just said there wasn't.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #513 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 06:21:46 pm »
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #514 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 08:54:29 pm »
Might have been doing some art and he ran out of watercolours.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #515 on: Wednesday 17 April 2019, 11:42:35 pm »
I somehow highly doubt that he was motivated to not spread dirt on Trump because of fear of private prosecution. Sounds like an exemplar of grasping at straws to me.

You don't believe he considered the legal consequences of his actions. Okay. I'm happy to leave it at that.


f***ing hell should be klaxons going off in the quakes household here like :lol:
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline QuakesMag

  • General Member
  • Telling it how it isn't
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #516 on: Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:18:33 am »
I'm quite clearly NOT saying that it's all the same. Revelations about the actions of individuals whilst in political office, is very different to proving somebody fiddles their tax.

Except it would not just be about Trump's taxes, but could well help substantiate to some degree some of the whispers of his hyper-criminality over the past 40 odd years. Just fiddling taxes is most likely a small tup of the iceberg for his decades of criminal enterprise. Who knows how many vectors point to connections to a hostile power. Pretty obvious that he as a president is compromised in some way. Yo don't think that revelations of these connections back in October of 2016 or his s*** with Michael Cohen this may have swayed the election in Hillary's favor, considering that the margins in battleground states were ridiculously small?

Having said all that, I do suspect that there is no f***ing way that Assange will get a fair shake, despite thinking he is an odious piece of s*** with a god complex. What wikileaks orginally appeared to stand for was holding these Project for a New American Century assholes to some accountability that the media often didn't do, particularly during the lead up to the Iraq war. Crucifying him for that is not good for any of us.
Not one of the cool kids, and really insecure about it.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #517 on: Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:24:36 am »
I'm quite clearly NOT saying that it's all the same. Revelations about the actions of individuals whilst in political office, is very different to proving somebody fiddles their tax.

Except it would not just be about Trump's taxes, but could well help substantiate to some degree some of the whispers of his hyper-criminality over the past 40 odd years. Just fiddling taxes is most likely a small tup of the iceberg for his decades of criminal enterprise. Who knows how many vectors point to connections to a hostile power. Pretty obvious that he as a president is compromised in some way. Yo don't think that revelations of these connections back in October of 2016 or his s*** with Michael Cohen this may have swayed the election in Hillary's favor, considering that the margins in battleground states were ridiculously small?

Having said all that, I do suspect that there is no f***ing way that Assange will get a fair shake, despite thinking he is an odious piece of s*** with a god complex. What wikileaks orginally appeared to stand for was holding these Project for a New American Century assholes to some accountability that the media often didn't do, particularly during the lead up to the Iraq war. Crucifying him for that is not good for any of us.

Once again I don't disagree. But none of us can know whether Wikileaks had access to such information. Access to Clinton's stuff was childsplay, safe to say Criminal enterprises wouldn't be so naïve.

Offline QuakesMag

  • General Member
  • Telling it how it isn't
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #518 on: Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:38:05 am »
I'm quite clearly NOT saying that it's all the same. Revelations about the actions of individuals whilst in political office, is very different to proving somebody fiddles their tax.

Except it would not just be about Trump's taxes, but could well help substantiate to some degree some of the whispers of his hyper-criminality over the past 40 odd years. Just fiddling taxes is most likely a small tup of the iceberg for his decades of criminal enterprise. Who knows how many vectors point to connections to a hostile power. Pretty obvious that he as a president is compromised in some way. Yo don't think that revelations of these connections back in October of 2016 or his s*** with Michael Cohen this may have swayed the election in Hillary's favor, considering that the margins in battleground states were ridiculously small?

Having said all that, I do suspect that there is no f***ing way that Assange will get a fair shake, despite thinking he is an odious piece of s*** with a god complex. What wikileaks orginally appeared to stand for was holding these Project for a New American Century assholes to some accountability that the media often didn't do, particularly during the lead up to the Iraq war. Crucifying him for that is not good for any of us.

Once again I don't disagree. But none of us can know whether Wikileaks had access to such information. Access to Clinton's stuff was childsplay, safe to say Criminal enterprises wouldn't be so naïve.

One would expect that until  they've seen the levels of ineptitude of Trump and his cronies since. It's just that not many people bothered digging at that point. Doesn't seem that a lot of this s*** was very far from the surface after all.
Not one of the cool kids, and really insecure about it.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #519 on: Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:02:17 pm »
Do you think Trump would have beaten Sanders?

Offline QuakesMag

  • General Member
  • Telling it how it isn't
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #520 on: Friday 19 April 2019, 12:33:07 am »
Not sure. Probably not, I guess, but anything with the name socialism in it has been weaponized to a large degree here, which would have posed problems during the election (things are clearly changing a bit with the younger generations though). Don't think there was a chance in hell that Trump would have beaten Biden if he chose to run though. Biden would have been as close to a sure thing as the Democrats could have mustered up last time around. But the Democrats are the Washington Generals to the Republicans' Harlem Globetrotters, and picked probably one of the only candidates who could have possibly lost. Even then, it apparently took an amazing set of circumstances to enable a Trump victory, given how fine the margins were in the battleground states.
Not one of the cool kids, and really insecure about it.

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #521 on: Saturday 20 April 2019, 01:53:23 pm »
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/free-ola-bini

s*** on his walls too, Moreno?

I really would like to go how the conversation between him and the fascist Farage went.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: WikiLeaks
« Reply #522 on: Saturday 20 April 2019, 02:11:45 pm »
Absolutely.  He's not someone I align with, Assange that is, just the rest of it is suspect to f***.  But he can't scream about transparency then have secret little meetings with questionable individuals and expect everyone to be all cool with that.  It's been his own actions that have led to him to become so alone, he basically had the whole Left, then shat on it, directly or indirectly, by playing middle man during Trump's ascendancy.  You have to wonder if he thought he'd get a pardon if he helped him, possibly saw it as worth the gamble.  Would have gone as far as saying I wouldn't have minded his Clinton shenanigans had he applied the same approach to Trump.  Argued that at the time too.

Slightly off-topic, but the Podesta emails, did they uncover anything worth uncovering?  I keep hearing people say he was highlighting her corruption, but I'm unsure of what emails did that? 
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make