Author Topic: Kevin Keegan is a legend  (Read 303090 times)

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Offline huss9

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  • heathen
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3350 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 12:12:02 AM »
Nothing on this planet could get me to press that play button.
john gibson in the chronicle this afternoon;
"John Carver has talked of playing two up top in an effort to score goals, tactically be more direct to grind out points, and just about every other possibility known to man or beast. They are the ramblings of a drowning desperado."

Offline HaydnNUFC

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  • Yes, I'm really that young.
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3351 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 12:20:51 AM »
Always found 'The Entertainers' label odd, knowing our 66 goals would still now be the lowest of all PL winners.

If our lot were entertaining, then what the hell have the champions all been :lol:

The entertainers was nicknamed after the 1993/94 season.

Was it after we won at Oldham when we were nicknamed that? Remember reading that somewhere.
But...6 in a row. But...Calciopoli.

I reckon Haydn wears pure concentrated pheromones.

Online sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3352 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 01:44:29 AM »
Always found 'The Entertainers' label odd, knowing our 66 goals would still now be the lowest of all PL winners.

If our lot were entertaining, then what the hell have the champions all been :lol:

The entertainers was nicknamed after the 1993/94 season.

Was it after we won at Oldham when we were nicknamed that? Remember reading that somewhere.

I seem to remember Cole hitting one like Oba Martins [v spurs] in that game. Edge of the box, hammered into near top corner. Would that be right?

Offline Paully

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3353 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 06:35:06 AM »
Always found 'The Entertainers' label odd, knowing our 66 goals would still now be the lowest of all PL winners.

If our lot were entertaining, then what the hell have the champions all been :lol:

The entertainers was nicknamed after the 1993/94 season.

Was it after we won at Oldham when we were nicknamed that? Remember reading that somewhere.

I seem to remember Cole hitting one like Oba Martins [v spurs] in that game. Edge of the box, hammered into near top corner. Would that be right?

Nar that was Chelsea home!

His goals at Oldham were a delightful left foot chip and a scuffed shot off his other foot! Brilliant night that!

Offline Cronky

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3354 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 07:55:04 AM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.


Didn't Gary Neville snap him in half around January time with a late tackle and he missed the 2nd half of the season? As I remember he was doing great and then when he was gone we were worse because the other could just focus on Ginola.

I've checked this out, and he didn't actually miss all that many games in the second half of the season. He did end up on the subs bench quite a bit though.

I think Gillespie was a more limited player than Keegan had at first thought. He'd scored a good goal against us the previous season, and I think that influenced Keegan's thinking. But Premiership defenders sussed him out after a while and he became less effective.

In the first half of the season, that team had a beautiful balance to it, with Sir Les leading the line, Pedro and Rob Lee creating things down the centre, Ginola and Gillespie down the flanks, and Clark acting as the anchor man. Batty for Clark was a good exchange, but as I said in other post, Tino's arrival forced a change in the set up. If Tino had been a wide player it would have worked, but he was a central striker and the whole balance of the attack was disrupted.
People generalise too much.

Offline Paully

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3355 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 08:04:59 AM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.


Didn't Gary Neville snap him in half around January time with a late tackle and he missed the 2nd half of the season? As I remember he was doing great and then when he was gone we were worse because the other could just focus on Ginola.

It was Phil Neville at their place end of December and it would be a blatant red now!

Offline magorific

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3356 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 08:34:38 AM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

I think there's something in that.

I always remember around the time that we signed Tino, I read this article by Brian Clough in one of the tabloids. He said that when he was manager of Notts Forest, during their title-winning season, he was very tempted to make sure of success by buying another player towards the end of the transfer window. In the end, he decided to hold his nerve, because a new player at that stage might be difficult to integrate, and might be seen by his existing squad as a vote of no confidence in them. For those reasons, he decided against entering the transfer market, and he now had similar doubts as to whether it was wise for Keegan to buy Tino.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.

I recently saw an interview with Sir Les, where he himself said that changing the line-up to bring in Tino was a significant error. It's not that Tino can be held 'to blame'. It's just that he was the wrong player at the time.

Sir Les was  brilliant and I've got all the time in the world for him, but the truth is he wasn't able to adapt his game to play alongside Tino. Which is not really surprising and can easily lead one to think it was the wrong decision.

Personally I thought Les went missing in the second half of the season whereas Tino seemed to be fine when the pressure was on. That finish against Liverpool in th famous 4-3, he was cool as a cucumber. So yeah, while I'm a big Les fan, think that wasn't quite the whole story there. Those figures for goals and finishes bear out his effectiveness and I agree with Optimistic that he got scapegoated a bit.

Ferdinand stopped hitting the back of the net, Beardsley started to show his age, but personally I thought the introduction of Batty to the team had more of an impact than Asprilla. Batty was a good player no doubt, but I think the dynamic of the team changed and we were a better team with Clark in the middle. A half decent keeper and we would have wrapped the title up as well.

Still hurts like a motherfucker.

As much as I love him, all roads of regret lead back for me to Sir Les and the Man United home game. Had we won, that was it - title done and dusted (seven points clear with a game in hand). But, as good as Schmeichel was, he missed a couple of unbelievable chances that night.

Offline Optimistic Nut

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3357 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 08:44:26 AM »
He scored 17 during the first half of the season then 8 in the second half. Still not bad at nearly 1 in 2 but when you compare it with Cantona who scored 10 in 15 in that run-in, 5 of them in 1-0 wins, it was a big factor. Seemed every game at the time where on the highlights Cantona would score and Schmeichel would make one top save a game.

The support cast were fading too, Rob Lee for example had 7 by Christmas, he only scored 1 after that.
« Last Edit: Sunday 22 November 2020, 08:57:30 AM by Optimistic Nut »
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Offline JeffJ

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3358 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 11:31:14 AM »
There was a stupid 3-3 at a s*** Man City (the Curle-Tino match). Two points lost to one of the worst teams in the league during the run-in.

Incredible game to be at but when we left you realised how vulnerable we were away from home, 3-2 up at a dogshit team and didn’t see it out. That on the back of losing at West Ham really started the slide. Think Man Utd had a similar crazy game at City but won 3-2.

Offline Scoreboard82

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3359 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 07:38:14 PM »
Me and my mate were wondering what day in March we’d need to book off in March to celebrate the title. It was absolute agony watching what unfolded.
Me and a work mate had vowed that if we won it we'd run naked through the George and Dragon from the old Eldon Square entrance and out of the exit to the bus concourse for those who can remember. Our blushes were spared but I'd have gladly got locked up for seeing it through.

Offline Tsunami

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  • Ashley Out
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3360 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 08:30:14 PM »
You’d have ran passed us in the G&D, at that time we were never out of the place as it was the nearest pub to work.

Offline Collage

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3361 on: Sunday 22 November 2020, 09:10:05 PM »
I’d take losing the title 1996 style every season, rather than the current apathetic misery.

Offline Inferior Acuña

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3362 on: Yesterday at 09:58:08 PM »
I do feel somewhat relieved that I wasn't old enough to really live the heartache. I try and think of the times I've felt most heartbroken: it's the cup exits - the likes of Lisbon, Marseille, Alkmaar, Partizan, daft ones like the Wolves 2-3 - with no guarantee of us ever actually going on and winning it anyway. Surrendering that title, God, some of those moments must have made a person feel suicidal. :lol:

Same. I remember the season and went to quite a few games - including that 3-3 away at Man City. But I was only 6, I was just enjoying the ride and thought it was great that we were one of the best teams and that was all I knew - when we didn't win the title I just thought we'd win it another year. f***ing idiot :lol:

Offline Cronky

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3363 on: Yesterday at 11:31:56 PM »
I do feel somewhat relieved that I wasn't old enough to really live the heartache. I try and think of the times I've felt most heartbroken: it's the cup exits - the likes of Lisbon, Marseille, Alkmaar, Partizan, daft ones like the Wolves 2-3 - with no guarantee of us ever actually going on and winning it anyway. Surrendering that title, God, some of those moments must have made a person feel suicidal. :lol:

Same. I remember the season and went to quite a few games - including that 3-3 away at Man City. But I was only 6, I was just enjoying the ride and thought it was great that we were one of the best teams and that was all I knew - when we didn't win the title I just thought we'd win it another year. f***ing idiot :lol:

Ha ha. I can remember my little nephew at the time saying, 'Coming second is still pretty good'. I just thought, if only you knew how seldom the chance to finish first comes round.
People generalise too much.