Author Topic: Kevin Keegan is a legend  (Read 311305 times)

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Offline Cronky

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3325 on: Monday 16 November 2020, 12:54:29 PM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

I think there's something in that.

I always remember around the time that we signed Tino, I read this article by Brian Clough in one of the tabloids. He said that when he was manager of Notts Forest, during their title-winning season, he was very tempted to make sure of success by buying another player towards the end of the transfer window. In the end, he decided to hold his nerve, because a new player at that stage might be difficult to integrate, and might be seen by his existing squad as a vote of no confidence in them. For those reasons, he decided against entering the transfer market, and he now had similar doubts as to whether it was wise for Keegan to buy Tino.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.

I recently saw an interview with Sir Les, where he himself said that changing the line-up to bring in Tino was a significant error. It's not that Tino can be held 'to blame'. It's just that he was the wrong player at the time.
People generalise too much.

Online sadnesstan

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3326 on: Monday 16 November 2020, 01:36:39 PM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

I think there's something in that.

I always remember around the time that we signed Tino, I read this article by Brian Clough in one of the tabloids. He said that when he was manager of Notts Forest, during their title-winning season, he was very tempted to make sure of success by buying another player towards the end of the transfer window. In the end, he decided to hold his nerve, because a new player at that stage might be difficult to integrate, and might be seen by his existing squad as a vote of no confidence in them. For those reasons, he decided against entering the transfer market, and he now had similar doubts as to whether it was wise for Keegan to buy Tino.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.

I recently saw an interview with Sir Les, where he himself said that changing the line-up to bring in Tino was a significant error. It's not that Tino can be held 'to blame'. It's just that he was the wrong player at the time.

Sir Les was  brilliant and I've got all the time in the world for him, but the truth is he wasn't able to adapt his game to play alongside Tino. Which is not really surprising and can easily lead one to think it was the wrong decision.

Offline InspectorCoarse

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  • " What i don't understand is this " ...
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3327 on: Monday 16 November 2020, 02:19:31 PM »
We couldve swapped like for like and hoyed on Huckerby for Gillespie

Offline TRon

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3328 on: Monday 16 November 2020, 02:28:07 PM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

I think there's something in that.

I always remember around the time that we signed Tino, I read this article by Brian Clough in one of the tabloids. He said that when he was manager of Notts Forest, during their title-winning season, he was very tempted to make sure of success by buying another player towards the end of the transfer window. In the end, he decided to hold his nerve, because a new player at that stage might be difficult to integrate, and might be seen by his existing squad as a vote of no confidence in them. For those reasons, he decided against entering the transfer market, and he now had similar doubts as to whether it was wise for Keegan to buy Tino.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.

I recently saw an interview with Sir Les, where he himself said that changing the line-up to bring in Tino was a significant error. It's not that Tino can be held 'to blame'. It's just that he was the wrong player at the time.

Sir Les was  brilliant and I've got all the time in the world for him, but the truth is he wasn't able to adapt his game to play alongside Tino. Which is not really surprising and can easily lead one to think it was the wrong decision.

Personally I thought Les went missing in the second half of the season whereas Tino seemed to be fine when the pressure was on. That finish against Liverpool in th famous 4-3, he was cool as a cucumber. So yeah, while I'm a big Les fan, think that wasn't quite the whole story there. Those figures for goals and finishes bear out his effectiveness and I agree with Optimistic that he got scapegoated a bit.

Offline Optimistic Nut

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3329 on: Friday 20 November 2020, 03:25:23 PM »
6 year old nephew’s not been into football yet. Last couple weeks my brother’s been reading his Autobiography to him as his bedtime story, he’s absolutely obsessed with the bloke. :lol:
?s=21

Offline Inferior Acuña

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3330 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 06:30:36 AM »
What was the thinking behind bringing Tino in - was there a particular shortcoming that he was trying to fix?

Offline Optimistic Nut

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3331 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 07:13:00 AM »
Beardsley replacement?
?s=21

Online neesy111

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3332 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 09:52:39 AM »
Wasn't he scared of beardsley or ferdinand getting injured?

Offline Tsunami

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3333 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 06:13:21 PM »
When it all comes down to it this is what did us. I still can’t believe what happened tbh. When Batty scores at Blackburn I was convinced we’d just get there, I then watched the Forest game on a night out in town and can’t begin to describe how I felt when Woan scored.

Fenton



Miss control by Batty https://www.premierleague.com/video/single/1785310?PLAYLIST=15723


Online Yorkie

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3334 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 06:18:41 PM »
I do feel somewhat relieved that I wasn't old enough to really live the heartache. I try and think of the times I've felt most heartbroken: it's the cup exits - the likes of Lisbon, Marseille, Alkmaar, Partizan, daft ones like the Wolves 2-3 - with no guarantee of us ever actually going on and winning it anyway. Surrendering that title, God, some of those moments must have made a person feel suicidal. :lol:

Offline nufcjb

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3335 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 06:21:23 PM »
Accidentally clicked the 1st page of the thread. Thought Bruce was gone for a minute.

Offline TRon

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3336 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 06:35:37 PM »
What was the thinking behind bringing Tino in - was there a particular shortcoming that he was trying to fix?

I think it was just a chance to bring a world class striker to the club, almost an insurance policy in case the goals dried up as the pressure of winning the title mounted. Which they did tbf.

Offline Robster

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3337 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 07:35:21 PM »
I do feel somewhat relieved that I wasn't old enough to really live the heartache. I try and think of the times I've felt most heartbroken: it's the cup exits - the likes of Lisbon, Marseille, Alkmaar, Partizan, daft ones like the Wolves 2-3 - with no guarantee of us ever actually going on and winning it anyway. Surrendering that title, God, some of those moments must have made a person feel suicidal. :lol:

I've never got over it. I know I never will.
" Managers matter, but our manager is desperate for you, and his boss, to believe that they don't. "
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Offline Tsunami

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3338 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 08:03:01 PM »
Me and my mate were wondering what day in March we’d need to book off in March to celebrate the title. It was absolute agony watching what unfolded.

Offline JeffJ

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3339 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 10:38:20 PM »
I do feel somewhat relieved that I wasn't old enough to really live the heartache. I try and think of the times I've felt most heartbroken: it's the cup exits - the likes of Lisbon, Marseille, Alkmaar, Partizan, daft ones like the Wolves 2-3 - with no guarantee of us ever actually going on and winning it anyway. Surrendering that title, God, some of those moments must have made a person feel suicidal. :lol:

I was only 15 but remember the doubt creeping in when we lost 2-0 West Ham, followed by that mad 3-3 at Man City, points dropped against poor relegation threatened teams. Next game was Man Utd on the Monday night, still haven’t watched that game back, just remember relentlessly battering them for 45 minutes and somehow couldn’t beat Schmeichel then we fell for the sucker punch and everything changed.

The run-in was absolute torture, Man Utd seemingly always playing and winning before we had kicked a ball just piled on the pressure. Blackburn loss hurt the most, total gut punch that we never recovered from, still can’t get over how we were 5 minutes away from grinding out a huge 3 points and ended up on the floor with nothing.

We stood applauding the players on their lap of honour after the Spurs game and my dad said to me ‘you’ll never see us come this close to winning it ever again’, I didn’t believe him at the time but I’ve never forgotten.

Online Ashley17

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3340 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 10:41:48 PM »
When it all comes down to it this is what did us. I still can’t believe what happened tbh. When Batty scores at Blackburn I was convinced we’d just get there, I then watched the Forest game on a night out in town and can’t begin to describe how I felt when Woan scored.

Fenton



Miss control by Batty https://www.premierleague.com/video/single/1785310?PLAYLIST=15723


This was definitely the game for me. I got asked to write about the worst loss and chose this one

https://thatsliquidfootball.com/2020/04/08/losing-my-favourite-game-fenton-fenton-oh-jesus-christ-with-dave-black/

Offline Cronky

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3341 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 10:51:52 PM »
It's very hard to convey just how badly we played after Batty put us ahead.

I've always thought that if there's a hell, they could do no worse than force me to watch those 10 or so minutes over and over again on a continuous loop.
People generalise too much.

Offline UncleBingo

  • General Member
Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3342 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 10:55:05 PM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

I think there's something in that.

I always remember around the time that we signed Tino, I read this article by Brian Clough in one of the tabloids. He said that when he was manager of Notts Forest, during their title-winning season, he was very tempted to make sure of success by buying another player towards the end of the transfer window. In the end, he decided to hold his nerve, because a new player at that stage might be difficult to integrate, and might be seen by his existing squad as a vote of no confidence in them. For those reasons, he decided against entering the transfer market, and he now had similar doubts as to whether it was wise for Keegan to buy Tino.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.

I recently saw an interview with Sir Les, where he himself said that changing the line-up to bring in Tino was a significant error. It's not that Tino can be held 'to blame'. It's just that he was the wrong player at the time.

Sir Les was  brilliant and I've got all the time in the world for him, but the truth is he wasn't able to adapt his game to play alongside Tino. Which is not really surprising and can easily lead one to think it was the wrong decision.

Personally I thought Les went missing in the second half of the season whereas Tino seemed to be fine when the pressure was on. That finish against Liverpool in th famous 4-3, he was cool as a cucumber. So yeah, while I'm a big Les fan, think that wasn't quite the whole story there. Those figures for goals and finishes bear out his effectiveness and I agree with Optimistic that he got scapegoated a bit.

Ferdinand stopped hitting the back of the net, Beardsley started to show his age, but personally I thought the introduction of Batty to the team had more of an impact than Asprilla. Batty was a good player no doubt, but I think the dynamic of the team changed and we were a better team with Clark in the middle. A half decent keeper and we would have wrapped the title up as well.

Still hurts like a motherfucker.

Offline Optimistic Nut

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3343 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:00:53 PM »
There was a stupid 3-3 at a s*** Man City (the Curle-Tino match). Two points lost to one of the worst teams in the league during the run-in.
?s=21

Offline Candi_Hills

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3344 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:26:12 PM »
I always thought a key point was that Kevin was so self assured in his early days here and that he didn't give a monkey's when others questioned his decisions. This seemed to change during 95-96 season somewhat.

I remember there was negativity about Beresford (something about him having a dodgy knee or failing a medical) and Bracewell signing and Kev just plowed on through . Same with the signing of Cole there were people within football who were like "What ? He's spending how much on him ?" and Keegan was "like this lad's got it" . Even the signing of Beardsley, voices within the club weren't happy about that signing because of his age and Kevin was adamant. You can look at the sale of Andy Cole as a larger example that KK was completely sure of himself.

Then there definitely seemed to be a change of Special K's mentality and he started listening to the media and the naysayers. To me this started with the signing of David Batty which seemed to be on the back of people saying that we couldn't win the title playing the way we were. Then over time and with the loss of the title this seemed to validate the criticism's of him with a lot of people and perhaps in Kevin's mind. Culminating in when he left England and saying he tactically wasn't up to it.

We'll never know for sure whether things would have turned out differently if Keegan had done differently, but I've since been inclined to think that Clough made the right call. Tino was a good player all right, but he wasn't the player we needed. Including him meant that the Sir Les - Pedro partnership, which had been so fruitful, was disrupted, with Beardsley being pushed out right. The weak link in the side, and the player that should have been replaced, was Gillespie. We needed a wide player.


Didn't Gary Neville snap him in half around January time with a late tackle and he missed the 2nd half of the season? As I remember he was doing great and then when he was gone we were worse because the other could just focus on Ginola.

Online Ketsbaia

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3345 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:30:43 PM »
Always found 'The Entertainers' label odd, knowing our 66 goals would still now be the lowest of all PL winners.

If our lot were entertaining, then what the hell have the champions all been :lol:

Offline Lazarus

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3346 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:32:53 PM »
To me batty was the right signing for the right reason at maybe the wrong time.

A purely defensive minded midfielder. Able to break up play and win the ball back.

Tino was maybe the right player for the wrong reason at the wrong time.

He was almost the physical manifestation of keegans attacking philosophy but that 7.5m couldve been better spent elsewhere.

The right player for the right reason at that time wouldve been a keeper.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but another thing to bear in mind he there were no reserve squad. with pedro getting older and rob lee not having a midfield partner of similar ability that defensive minded midfielder and attacking flair player were perhaps holes in the squad that needed filled.

Online neesy111

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3347 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:44:43 PM »
When it all comes down to it this is what did us. I still can’t believe what happened tbh. When Batty scores at Blackburn I was convinced we’d just get there, I then watched the Forest game on a night out in town and can’t begin to describe how I felt when Woan scored.

Fenton



Miss control by Batty https://www.premierleague.com/video/single/1785310?PLAYLIST=15723

That goalkeeping by Hislop is some of the worst I've ever seen.

Online neesy111

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3348 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:45:43 PM »
Always found 'The Entertainers' label odd, knowing our 66 goals would still now be the lowest of all PL winners.

If our lot were entertaining, then what the hell have the champions all been :lol:

The entertainers was nicknamed after the 1993/94 season.

Offline CFlan

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Re: Kevin Keegan is a legend
« Reply #3349 on: Saturday 21 November 2020, 11:46:33 PM »
Nothing on this planet could get me to press that play button.