Author Topic: Racism in Football  (Read 92174 times)

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Offline Wullie

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 12:44:14 AM »
Regarding the Emre thing, I have no doubt that he said something out of order, for Yobo and Howard to pursue their case so strongly there had to have been something substantial there. However, once again the Premier League went soft on it, and the way they handled the case was laughable.

The way it needs to be done is: player X calls player Y a nigger / chink / paki / martian... player Y and player Z both hear it, and complain. Instant fine / ban on X.

THAT would be taking a hard line for on-pitch racism, as there is no way to prove these things, except hearsay.

But isn't that playing with fire somewhat?

Imagine Man Utd vs Chelsea, Drogba and Rooney get into a slanging match, along comes Kalou who swears blind that Rooney racially abused Drogba - bang, Man Utd lose one of their best players for God knows how long - and it has to be a ban, because a fine won't touch any of them.
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Offline ohmelads

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 12:50:40 AM »
Regarding the Emre thing, I have no doubt that he said something out of order, for Yobo and Howard to pursue their case so strongly there had to have been something substantial there. However, once again the Premier League went soft on it, and the way they handled the case was laughable.

The way it needs to be done is: player X calls player Y a nigger / chink / paki / martian... player Y and player Z both hear it, and complain. Instant fine / ban on X.

THAT would be taking a hard line for on-pitch racism, as there is no way to prove these things, except hearsay.

It would be very easy to get somebody you don't like very much in real trouble by making accusations like this. Similarly, as Wullie points out, a team could get another team in trouble the same way.

Regarding the Emre thing, it's anyone's guess really. The media sparked rumours of past incidents to try and create a profile of him as a racist, going back to any black player he had ever had an argument with or looked at the wrong way. Yet none of those players mentioned came out and spoke about Emre, not one of them. You say Howard and Yobo pursued their case so strongly, but who is to say it wasn't a misunderstanding or a heat of the moment thing which got out of hand? In the end they were asked to give a statement, and it was reported that it was quickly thrown out because their stories didn't even match up. It all depends who you choose to believe, which is precisely the point.

It should be innocent until proven guilty. Hear-say isn't good enough, there are plenty of people out there who will happily call anyone a racist in order to appear all righteous.

michaeljbuck

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 01:00:34 AM »
I know people don't believe in human rights much these days, but I've always been a staunch supporter of them. People should have the right to freedom of speech. Is racism bad? Yes, it's a form of collectivism and only done by the ignorant to compensate for their lack of success and importance. However, does racist abuse impede on any of the rights of the players on the field? No. They're not going to like it, but we shouldn't censor everything somebody is going to be offended by. What good are fines and bans going to do? First of all they're going to be punishing the vast majority for the actions of a minority, but more importantly and worryingly they will just drive racism underground, which makes it even more dangerous. Do you think if clubs issued fines to people shouting racist abuse they would change their opinion? Of course not. It would make them more bitter, more racist, and they would just be masking their dangerous feelings.

So, you might wonder what I think is the way forward. Well, it really comes down to education. People are racist because they are ignorant (in the malicious sense; not racist jokes etc.). That is the fault of society. Especially this phase of multiculturalism we've had recently. It raised tensions, and I'm glad that now we are going to the more sensible policy of integrating. The only way you can get rid of racism in society is to educate people.

And some of these policies are so Orwellian and ridiculous. This, for example:

Quote
The way it needs to be done is: player X calls player Y a nigger / chink / paki / martian... player Y and player Z both hear it, and complain. Instant fine / ban on X.

Ridiculous. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Players could easily conspire to get opposition team-mates banned etc. It's just full of problems and does nothing to help anybody.

Offline DJ_NUFC

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 01:01:13 AM »
Yeah, I agree totally that it can be, and in some cases WILL be, used unprofessionally. But having a witness is pretty much all a person can do to being called so-and-so.

I remember Mihaljovic calling Viera a 'black monkey,' Vieri branding Lua Lua a black something (in that case, Aaron Hughes backed Lua up) and the whole Aragones issue.

The thing is, racism is a societal problem that seeps into football, not the other way around.

If nothing is done when instances like these keep happening -- and let's face it, they're gonna continue -- then it's seen as nothing but condonation.

The sad thing is, no player then will ever get any sort of justice or respite from being called a racial slur from one of his opponents, and we might as well look at it as 'part of the game.' When in real life, on any given Sunday League football pitch, you call someone a nigger and you'll have the opposing eleven on your arse and will be hospitalised for months.

So if we don't condone it in life, why so on a pitch?

With the stadia, again, it comes down to the men in power, and FIFA have lacked testicles on this issue just as they have on a million other issues in the past, so we should just bypass them and the FA, La Liga, Seria A and other leagues should make their own rules.

Offline ohmelads

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 01:22:44 AM »
There don't seem to be that many incidents of players at the top level accusing other players of racist remarks on the field. You've highlighted a few, but it's always going to be difficult to know the truth and you can't go punishing people based on hear-say. You can't do it anywhere else so why should you be able to do it on the pitch.

As for the fans, I agree that FIFA and UEFA have been weak and seem to display no consistency with the punishments they hand out. It seems almost accepted that it's going to happen in Mediterranean countries so they just get a slap on the wrist, yet you know if there were hundreds of people making monkey noises at Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge, loud enough to be heard by millions of viewers on TV, there'd be hell on and UEFA would come down on it heavily.

Offline DJ_NUFC

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 02:03:19 AM »
There don't seem to be that many incidents of players at the top level accusing other players of racist remarks on the field. You've highlighted a few, but it's always going to be difficult to know the truth and you can't go punishing people based on hear-say. You can't do it anywhere else so why should you be able to do it on the pitch.

As for the fans, I agree that FIFA and UEFA have been weak and seem to display no consistency with the punishments they hand out. It seems almost accepted that it's going to happen in Mediterranean countries so they just get a slap on the wrist, yet you know if there were hundreds of people making monkey noises at Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge, loud enough to be heard by millions of viewers on TV, there'd be hell on and UEFA would come down on it heavily.

 :thup:

Moe-Ali

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 04:24:29 AM »
Stadium bans.

Moe-Ali

  • Guest
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 04:25:36 AM »
There don't seem to be that many incidents of players at the top level accusing other players of racist remarks on the field. You've highlighted a few, but it's always going to be difficult to know the truth and you can't go punishing people based on hear-say. You can't do it anywhere else so why should you be able to do it on the pitch.

As for the fans, I agree that FIFA and UEFA have been weak and seem to display no consistency with the punishments they hand out. It seems almost accepted that it's going to happen in Mediterranean countries so they just get a slap on the wrist, yet you know if there were hundreds of people making monkey noises at Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge, loud enough to be heard by millions of viewers on TV, there'd be hell on and UEFA would come down on it heavily.


Alot of the top black players at some point or another are racially abused, i've read about henry, eto'o vieira, drogba, kluivert, and many more.
The one thing they all admit is that its very common and it is a tough pill to swallow, but never the less they swallow it.

Offline The Bonk

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 05:12:30 AM »
Why not mic the pitch more?  There's got to be a mic that has the technology to span the pitch area for recording or a multitude of microphones.

Moe-Ali

  • Guest
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 9 August 2007, 05:21:22 AM »
Why not mic the pitch more?  There's got to be a mic that has the technology to span the pitch area for recording or a multitude of microphones.

Good idea, never really thought of that, and yes there are mics like that, but i doubt fifa would be interested, because they are still iffy about the video replay, some saying it would over modernize the game? im not quite sure where i stand on this.
I think there should be a goal judge in some booth somewhere watching video and replays of the match, comunicating by mic  to the officials, using similar mic's to the ones used in the world cup, makes it more convenient.

Offline LooneyToonArmy

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #35 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 02:52:04 AM »
nee wonder they didn`t sign hardly any black fellas until recently

It may not be thousands doing monkey chants..........like in Spain, but it really saddens me when I hear our fans resorting to racist taunts of opposing players. Lad near me today calling SWP a 'little black ' and a 'little coon'. Depressing.

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=349931

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=349968
« Last Edit: Monday 1 September 2008, 03:24:36 AM by LooneyToonArmy »

Heneage

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #36 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 03:03:39 AM »
I've come across one racist comment in my nigh 2 years at SJP someone called Sun Ji-Hai a "Slanty Eyed T**t" No sooner had he uttered it he knew what he'd done. The fact I was sat a yard from him made it no better nor worse, but I warned him. Its an absolute joke most of those who say the same insults have black friends, or black players on their team.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #37 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 05:16:39 AM »
when we played PSV at home a few years back i had to sit and listen to some filthbag in the leazes make dog barking noises everytime park ji-sung or lee young-pyo touched the ball

well i suppose i didn't actually have to just sit and listen like, could have started a fight or something but that would just have validated his actions or some other hippy bullshit-speak...now that i'm married to a korean i think it might have a different outcome however, should i encounter it again

became quite tragic & embarrassing near the end of the game as everyone was just uncomfortable and this really is the best way to deal with them; isolate and humiliate

personally i find people who openly shout and spout racist remarks/slurs are the ones who have very little understanding of their words, they're not the ones conducting race hate wars in the background they're just thick-as-pigshit clowns using the easiest putdown they know

it's the silent ones you gotta watch out for 'cause they know enough to hide their real beliefs and thus are far far more dangerous
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Pie

  • Guest
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #38 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 07:45:00 AM »
nee wonder they didn`t sign hardly any black fellas until recently

It may not be thousands doing monkey chants..........like in Spain, but it really saddens me when I hear our fans resorting to racist taunts of opposing players. Lad near me today calling SWP a 'little black ' and a 'little coon'. Depressing.

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=349931

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=349968
To be fair, SJP has its fair share of knuckledragging racist plebs too.

Offline junkhead

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #39 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 09:08:15 AM »
I don't think I've ever heard a single racist remark at a game in England.. I think that the authorities have taken the required steps to kick it out of football there.. which is good
in Italy, most teams have big nazi fractions, although I understand that's been countered over the last couple of seasons and plenty of people have bans now
.. in my country racism is stuck so deep in people's minds that if you had to ban people for it, football will be played in front of empty stands.. of course, most supporters aren't skinheads, but when the monkey noises and racist chants start, most people seem to join in without any hesitation.. pathetic
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Offline ElDiablo

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #40 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 10:40:22 AM »
At the Arsenal game Sagna shielded the ball out of play right below me and one bloke just shouts out "f***ing nigger". Disgusting b******.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #41 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 10:42:34 AM »
I don't think I've ever heard a single racist remark at a game in England.. I think that the authorities have taken the required steps to kick it out of football there.. which is good
in Italy, most teams have big nazi fractions, although I understand that's been countered over the last couple of seasons and plenty of people have bans now
.. in my country racism is stuck so deep in people's minds that if you had to ban people for it, football will be played in front of empty stands.. of course, most supporters aren't skinheads, but when the monkey noises and racist chants start, most people seem to join in without any hesitation.. pathetic

you've either been very, very fortunate or not gone to many matches...
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline Fatwax

  • General Member
  • CAROL!
Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #42 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 10:58:45 AM »
I don't think I've ever heard a single racist remark at a game in England.. I think that the authorities have taken the required steps to kick it out of football there.. which is good
in Italy, most teams have big nazi fractions, although I understand that's been countered over the last couple of seasons and plenty of people have bans now
.. in my country racism is stuck so deep in people's minds that if you had to ban people for it, football will be played in front of empty stands.. of course, most supporters aren't skinheads, but when the monkey noises and racist chants start, most people seem to join in without any hesitation.. pathetic

you've either been very, very fortunate or not gone to many matches...

I haven't in England, but I did hear some when I was at the Bernabeau. It's horrible to hear things like that and there's just no need.

Offline dustynrg

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #43 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 11:22:41 AM »
When we played Frankfurt a couple of years ago I stood beside a bunch of knuckle draggers (our fans) who called Emre a Turkish c***, Martins a hopeless N***** t*** and kept directing their chants at a woman (NUFC fan) who was Asian and the word "PAKI" was used in her direction.  That puzzled me more than anything as she was obviously Chinese. As there was one of me and six of them I took the coward's way out and moved into an empty seat six rows to the front.

I got the impression from their charva conversation they were Army wallahs, obviously stationed in Germany. It saddened me more than anythign and still does when I think of it.

Online LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #44 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 11:26:50 AM »
A guy in his 70s who goes to my gym often laments that there are 'too many' black people in our team. The ironic thing is he's permanently brown from sunbed sessions.
Thier is not a word. "Their" is the correct spelling.

Win, Lose or Draw. NOT "Loose"!

Phil K

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #45 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 11:30:40 AM »
As much as I feel that FIFA should do something they only seem interested if its an ENGLISH team.
The Spaniards get away with it, and the Turks too.
CONSTANTLY.
But individual players will always insult each other and say things in the heat of the action.
Why for example is it OK for one black player to call another n*****r, yet not a white ?
Yes, I know - but its then double standards, isnt it. One rule for one colour player, another for the other
Its either for both or neither. But we are actually doing this in the law of the land too - only white people can be racist, only christians bigots.
It sickens me to be honest. The law should apply to ALL not some.

A guy in his 70s who goes to my gym often laments that there are 'too many' black people in our team. The ironic thing is he's permanently brown from sunbed sessions.

LOL - yeah. Mind - I've always held that the sunbed sh*tbrains bake off a significant part of their limited IQ's every time they go into one.

you've either been very, very fortunate or not gone to many matches...

'Course if you go looking for them - you'll find them....even when they HAVEN'T been said....it's called a Guardian-reader mentality.

Online WarrenBartonCentrePartin

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #46 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 11:32:38 AM »
I know we have knuckledraggers, but that is a city where the BNP gets a lot of votes, and mackem ST-holding mates who sit near the very back told me "BNP" had been written in the muck on the back wall.
Had a few dances off her when I've been in Blue velvet with friends. She's one of the ones who will push her fanny in your face, usually I like that but hers smells f***ing rotten. Only had dances off her because she agreed to take less money for the dances when me and my mate said we were skint.

I was a pure creep when I was a kid tbf. Used to spunk in deoderant can lids too

Offline Jamie

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #47 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 12:26:33 PM »
Is it OK if i call Michael Owen a scouse c*** though sometimes at games when i'm angry ?  :lol:
“Home advantage gives you an advantage.“

Phil K

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #48 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 12:41:03 PM »
Is it OK if i call Michael Owen a scouse c*** though sometimes at games when i'm angry ?  :lol:
He's from Chester so I'm not sure thats technically correct !

Pie

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Re: Racism in Football - FA clear Mark Clattenburg of racism claims
« Reply #49 on: Monday 1 September 2008, 12:41:35 PM »
Is it OK if i call Michael Owen a scouse c*** though sometimes at games when i'm angry ?  :lol:
Not really, he wasnt born there.