Author Topic: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?  (Read 116011 times)

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Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1275 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 01:57:17 PM »
The Brits will sell ANYTHING in the arms line

We're talking about the various Saudi arms deals struck over teh last 20 years

If they ask nicely we'll sell them an A bomb or two ........................
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1276 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 01:58:49 PM »
I don't doubt it Rob. Keep the House of Saud buying from us rather than Northrop Grumman etc...

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1277 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 02:02:00 PM »
iirc we helped out with Dimona along with the Yanks....

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1278 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 03:16:25 PM »
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=4883&sectionid=3510101

Quote
Israelis training death squads in Colombia
Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:59:15
The Interpol issued an arrest warrant for three Israelis who are accused of training Colombian private armies, right-wing death squads and drug cartels, Israeli Ynetnews reported.

The Ynetnews added that the three Israelis, Yair Klein, Melnik Ferri and Abraham Tzedaka are wanted for charges of criminal conspiracy, and instruction in terrorism. If convicted, they could face 11 years in prison.

The statements were made by a spokesperson of the Colombian Domestic Intelligence, talking on condition of anonymity.

Also, the three Israelis are accused of helping set up training camps in order to train private armies working for drug lords Pablo Escobar and Gonzalo Rodriguez Gacha. The camps are meant to train the mercenaries about explosives, car bombs and high-profile killings, the Ynetnews added.

One of the accused Israelis, Klein, appeared in a video filmed in 1998. The video is used to train far-right squads.

The Ynetnews also said that Klein spent 16 months in a prison in Sierra Leon for his role in what is known as “gun-for-blood” diamonds deal.

Klein was interviewed in Israel by the Carocal TV in March, and denied that he ever worked with the cocaine cartels, but said that he trained far-right death squads on methods to “eliminate leftists insurgency”, the Ynetnews said.

According to Klein, he was originally hired “with the blessing of the Colombian Defense Ministry”. His job was to organize the security of the banana industry in Uraba region.

Many of the mercenaries he trained carried some of the most brutal massacres in Columbia.

Bur Klein argues that these squads are not “trained to kill” and that they are trained to defend themselves.

Also, Escobar is behind bringing down airplanes, detonating police headquarters and offered his army of assassins a set rate for the killing of policemen, the Ynetnews said.

In 1993, Escobar was shot down by the police in Madelin, his hometown, while Gacha was killed by the police in 1989.

Tut tut.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Invicta_Toon

  • Guest
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1279 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 04:20:43 PM »
Eurofighter...Be obsolete by the time it's delivered. mackems.gif

good job we're buying some Lightnings then eh? The eurofighter is for the economy, the lightning is for defence

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1280 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 04:40:51 PM »
Eurofighter...Be obsolete by the time it's delivered. mackems.gif

good job we're buying some Lightnings then eh? The eurofighter is for the economy, the lightning is for defence

Hopefully not the 1968 versions eh Vic? ;)

Invicta_Toon

  • Guest
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1281 on: Thursday 5 April 2007, 04:57:31 PM »
Eurofighter...Be obsolete by the time it's delivered. mackems.gif

good job we're buying some Lightnings then eh? The eurofighter is for the economy, the lightning is for defence

Hopefully not the 1968 versions eh Vic? ;)

why not?, they wer quite handy tbh

and no, Mk II's

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1282 on: Friday 6 April 2007, 10:16:18 AM »
Eurofighter...Be obsolete by the time it's delivered. mackems.gif

good job we're buying some Lightnings then eh? The eurofighter is for the economy, the lightning is for defence

Lightnings? 

Not the ghastly JSF "Lightning II" I hope?

Another overweight, late, over cost, yankee plane bought by us to creep futher up the arse of the US military......................

My guess is that we'll cancel it because of cost overruns .....................
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1283 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 12:15:43 PM »
saw a commentary article in a chicago paper this morning that led me to this link: http://www.danielpipes.org/rr/4465.php

i confess i haven't read the whole link, and you can see right from the off where its bias would be, but it did raise one of my eyebrows.

your thoughts?
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1284 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 12:26:10 PM »
My thoughts are that I reckon Israel may well get a rough deal, from time to time, but it's not like they media are praising the Palestinians for anything they do.  I've got to say though, I must miss these news reports with anti-Israeli bias.  I've seen the odd article in the papers, generally from the Independent and Guardian ripping into them, but not much else.

Also, if they want to talk about fairness, how about addressing the issue of how much the US gives to Israel in aid, every year, in comparison with the Palestinian's whole aid budget?

PS. I also haven't read the whole link, cause it's just the same old tired s***.  Typical, "You think Palestinians are opressed, wait to you see how us Israelis are treated!!!!!!!1111111111111ONE" crépe.  My heart bleeds, really. 
« Last Edit: Thursday 3 May 2007, 02:04:31 PM by BlufPurdi »
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1285 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 12:58:15 PM »
My thoughts are that I reckon Israel may well get a rough deal, from time to time, but it's not like we're praising the Palestinians for anything they do.  I've got to say though, I must miss these news reports with anti-Israeli bias.  I've seen the odd article in the papers, generally from the Independent and Guardian ripping into them, but not much else.

Also, if they want to talk about fairness, how about addressing the issue of how much the US gives to Israel in aid, every year, in comparison with the Palestinian's whole aid budget?

PS. I also haven't read the whole link, cause it's just the same old tired s***.  Typical, "You think Palestinians are opressed, wait to you see how us Israelis are treated!!!!!!!1111111111111ONE" crépe.  My heart bleeds, really.  Tosser.  Not you Bob, this "Joel S. Fishman" creep...

interesting.  the commentary article that i actually did read  :D    contained some references to ww1 and how the british media/propaganda efforts during this war influenced hitler in the next.  i'll try and drum up an online link... 

btw, who is bob, is it me?     ???
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1286 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 12:59:27 PM »
:lol:

Yeah.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1287 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 01:02:56 PM »
i thought in england, bob was your uncle?    ;)

anyway, here's the link to the sun times editorial:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/368599,CST-EDT-PIPES03.article
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1288 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 01:11:25 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1289 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 01:18:21 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1290 on: Thursday 3 May 2007, 01:33:41 PM »
With all the malarky with the empire and such it was important (as with any imperial power) to portray things in a certain light. I can easily understand if Hitler learnt or admired some of the Home Office's/Foreign Office/ Ministry of Propoganda's antics. However Himmler and Goebbels etc got a lot of their ideation and mass appeal from tricks/bravura they picked up from Romans and other mythical symbolism, especially with regard to rallies and speeches etc. A dictator or imperial power cannot operate with impunity unless it is in control of its citizens hopes and desires. French retirement holiday home anyone? :lol:

The Germans like numbers, they like to pinpoint an exactitude it makes them feel comfortable.

Simple example, in England we might remark a player is coming back to fitness or he is nearly there and should train in a couple of weeks. The Germans will always say he IS 70% fit. They don't understand it unless there is a number.

THE NUMBER. :lol:

Offline sicsfingeredmong

  • General Member
  • The poster formerly known as Shaman.
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1291 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 03:36:24 AM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.
A senior dressing room figure admitted.

"Everyone was put up for sale in August. That caused mistrust. Nobody knew what the future was after that. People started looking for a way out after that. You would though, wouldn't you?"

The downside when applying Ashley's Sports World's 'Clearance Sale' mentality to football club ownership. The beginning of the player revolt when applying the 'Pile 'em High, Sell 'em cheap' sales merchant - for which Ashley is: an el-cheapo Sales Merchant..... a glorified scam artist of sorts - ideology to football club ownership

The aftermath: Keegan......... gone. Given......... as good as gone. Club stalwarts.

Throw Owen into the mix of those who seek greener pastures.

Who else will crawl out of the woodwork?

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1292 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 01:22:28 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1293 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 05:24:18 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...

Sounds like a job for Mr Google. :)

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1294 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 05:42:07 PM »
Bet Tom_NUFC would know. blueyes.gif
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1295 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 05:44:58 PM »
Bet Tom_NUFC would know. blueyes.gif

Surely a nailed on RobW speciality. ;)

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1296 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 06:32:17 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...

Sounds like a job for Mr Google. :)

yes, of course i can google it.   but i want real "man in the street", "eyewitness to history" sort of stuff.   were any of you as students taught this sort of thing?  was it mentioned in textbooks?   
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1297 on: Tuesday 8 May 2007, 06:41:34 PM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...

Sounds like a job for Mr Google. :)

yes, of course i can google it.   but i want real "man in the street", "eyewitness to history" sort of stuff.   were any of you as students taught this sort of thing?  was it mentioned in textbooks?  

Er... :)


What are you like?

Offline bulivye

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1298 on: Wednesday 9 May 2007, 01:15:03 AM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...

Sounds like a job for Mr Google. :)

yes, of course i can google it.   but i want real "man in the street", "eyewitness to history" sort of stuff.   were any of you as students taught this sort of thing?  was it mentioned in textbooks?  

Er... :)


What are you like?

not sure i'm understanding the question.  is it the geordie, "what are you, like?"  or are you asking me for similes about myself?   :coolsmiley:
altogether elsewhere vast
herds of reindeer move across
miles and miles of golden moss
silently and very fast

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?
« Reply #1299 on: Thursday 10 May 2007, 11:56:36 AM »
Israel has the most heavily funded propganda machine in America ( Washington) in modern history of one country influencing the politics of another.

are you suggesting that the article is not to be believed because of this?  which i'm not denying btw.  i'm more interested in reponses to the ww1 british mass media campaigns & the influence they're alleged to have had on hitler.  i've never heard this before and want to know if native brits can shed some light on the topic for me.

American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), otherwise known as "The Lobby" in Washington. Visit their website for a rundown of their achievements ie. influencing White House foreign policy in the Middle East region.

thanks, i am fairly well aware of the pro-israel lobby in DC.  i actually used to live in a very jewish part of america.  i really want to know about the british mass media campaigns of WWI etc...

Sounds like a job for Mr Google. :)

yes, of course i can google it.   but i want real "man in the street", "eyewitness to history" sort of stuff.   were any of you as students taught this sort of thing?  was it mentioned in textbooks?  

Er... :)


What are you like?

not sure i'm understanding the question.  is it the geordie, "what are you, like?"  or are you asking me for similes about myself?   :coolsmiley:

All empires have an idealistic core (misguided or otherwise), that is the driving force. Ideals are often blind. Propoganda isn't really the dessimination of these ideals and goals, but a counter story that loops/reverses the idea that the Empire is actually under thread. Propoganda only really works once  people accept that these conflicting 'stories' are both true.

The mind works with dualities and especially with survival or emotional issues it needs stark contrast. Once this is blurred by propoganda, people find it difficult to make a judgement call on whether what their country is doing is actually good for them or bad. Nowadays peoples ability to differentiate is so eroded, laughable ideas of the survival of whole countries and races is patently believed. I mean really big 'fears', fears that make the bad data, fears that are like ghosts, fears of biblical proportions are digested and held as 'truths' when infact there is very little evidence. Modern propoganda makes the danger seems very intangible and almost indistingushable from  lower brain (flight or fight) notions of evil, as if it will overwhelm as if 'the danger' almost has magic powers. Bottom line is that it is actually so vast and overwhelming the mind although questioning it cannot step away from it using rational thought because it attacks our base and primeval fears.