Topic: Is Israel the real danger to world peace?

[Parky]

Is Israel the real blackmailer? Continually saying they will have to sort out their upstart neighbours
if we don't do something about it.
India have had an atomic 'drop' capability since 1986 and this has come through the turbulent
and Hindu fundamentalist era of the BJP.......Pakistan has essentially had a military junta in power
since Bhutto left office...South Africa one of the original most unstable govt has had nuclear
weopans for yonks....
Do people think if Iran had a weapon they would be more dangerous than any of the above?
Are the media leading us a merry dance?
Have we not learnt anything from the lies peddled about Iraq and her 'weapons' and intentions?

[BlufPurdi]

I think Israel is the real problem in the world.  There's little doubt of that for me. 

However, I do not believe that Iran wouldn't use their weapons.  Particularly their current President. 

I think it goes deeper than the State of Israel though.  They hold insane power in America, and more questions need to be asked why the West have blindly backed them through their land grab.  Or why they were even given the land in the first place, and the Jewish population got rights and the Palestinians were just trodden all over.

A lot of the current problems of the world stem back to that one issue.  Until that is sorted, and properly, we'll never see this end.

[Parky]

Why have we? It has taken on mythical resonance for some over the years.

[Parky]

I haven't looked at the figures recently but U.S. aid to Israel is astronomical.....One thing I discovered by chance
recently is that they still get huge sums also from Germany and recently in the form of German built stealth submarines.

[BlufPurdi]

The backing is so blind though, that dodgy reasons can only be why.

I have no problem saying I think there's a Global agenda.  Sadly I can't prove it.  But then, no one seems to be able to give me a decent reasons as to why Israel gets this backing. 

Personally think we're on track for a one world Government, eventually.  And all these wars are just one step closer to doing so. 

First they'll unify the continents.  Much in the way of the United States.  European Union will become a A European state.  North America will become one.  It'll happen all over.  Once you have about 6 Surperstates it's much easy to Govern the world.  Which America is clearly dying to do. 

Only thing is, there will be agressive opposition to this.  Which is going to be horrific, one way or the other.  Let's be honest, over the past 60 years, that's the way it's gone.  Continental Unions never existed until after the World Wars.  They're expanding ever more, and soon they'll put constitutions in place that give them more power over the individual states.  Tell me, is that not what's happening in Europe already?

[Adam^]

Ive been there and it is. The whole country is a disgrace IMO, they have ridiculous military when all there nieghbours have small ill equiped armies. They have build there great wall through palitinina houses skols and towns. They have no respect for human rights either. When i went i was threatened with an assaultrifle aimed at my face im not sure why but he checked my passport and he nearly died when he saw GB on it.

The Jewish lobbies in America have far to much power and they play on the holocaust thing to much imo. THe holocaust was a truely dreadful event yes but that doesnt mean the jews have a divne right to take land from other peoples.

They need to be sorted out and loose the american backing then see how things would shape up. The UN cant touch them due to the uproar it would cause in america. Real threat to world peace as they could unsettle the middleeat then things would just escualte.

[BlufPurdi]

I haven't looked at the figures recently but U.S. aid to Israel is astronomical.....One thing I discovered by chance
recently is that they still get huge sums also from Germany and recently in the form of German built stealth submarines.

Also another reason why I think we're all in it together.  Say one thing do the other.  Actions speak louder than words, and all that.

[Adam^]

Give the palestines a state and their rights back thats all that is needed.

Cant see it happening tho. A bomb goes off in isreal so they buldoze a refugeu camp ?? How the hell is that helping they simply p*ss more ppl off who are willing to go blow more things up.

[BlufPurdi]

There's a lot to be said about the oppression of Palestinians.  But suicide bombings isn't an answer.  They're not entirely free of blame. 

There's a particular savagery about the so called freedom fighters.  Both in Palestine and Iraq, or Afgahnistan. 

However, Israel are the more powerful and should lead by example and not an eye for an eye.

[Parky]

Actually Bluff me old mucker we have to be a little careful where this thread goes huh?

The holocaust card....tell me about it I live in Germany.
My girlfriend told me off cause I said the lead character in King Kong had bigger nose than the ape himself.

She told me that you have to be careful saying things like that here.
I laughed it off....Makes you wonder like.

[BlufPurdi]

Give the palestines a state and their rights back thats all that is needed.

Cant see it happening tho. A bomb goes off in isreal so they buldoze a refugeu camp ?? How the hell is that helping they simply p*ss more ppl off who are willing to go blow more things up.

That's all that's needed?  'Fraid not.  Have you not heard of Kashmir?  That's little to do with Israel, but gets about half the air time in the media.  Many Muslims are as outraged at that as they are the Palestinian cause. 

Iraq, Afghanistan too.  These are almost more important than Palestine for future peace at the moment.  No, there's more than just Palestine that needs sorted. 

[BlufPurdi]

I don't think I've said anything out of line.  I'm not having a go at Jews, at all.  It's the leaders of these countries, not the people.

I'm sure many Jewish people share my views, infact I know many do.  I've read the books.  Islamic countries are us much to blame for the problems of the world as Israel in recent times.  Just Israel might as well be America the way they're always backed up.  And the whole Israel thing kicked it off. 

The Holocaust was horrific.  I don't believe I made any reference to it though.

EDIT:  Ah, Adam^ did.  The holocaust wasn't used as the reason to take Palestine, ever.  The movement to take Palestine started way before WW2 was even a remote possiblity.  Try 60/70 years, and read about Zionism.  Please don't use that, as it's wrong and is offensive to people.

[Parky]

The Western media subliminally have built up this myth that along the lines that only white christians are safe with
deadly weopans and the 'wogs' can't be trusted.
Although Europe has started 2 world wars and America has used 2 nuclear weopans against civilians.

[Parky]

My quote thing ain't working Bluff, but I was only playing you have been the paragon of virtue.
I was alluding to spying 'eyes' rather than any over enthusiatic remarks on our part.
Not quite Guantanamo stuff yet mate.

[Tisd09]

The backing is so blind though, that dodgy reasons can only be why.

I have no problem saying I think there's a Global agenda.  Sadly I can't prove it.  But then, no one seems to be able to give me a decent reasons as to why Israel gets this backing. 

Personally think we're on track for a one world Government, eventually.  And all these wars are just one step closer to doing so. 

First they'll unify the continents.  Much in the way of the United States.  European Union will become a A European state.  North America will become one.  It'll happen all over.  Once you have about 6 Surperstates it's much easy to Govern the world.  Which America is clearly dying to do. 

Only thing is, there will be agressive opposition to this.  Which is going to be horrific, one way or the other.  Let's be honest, over the past 60 years, that's the way it's gone.  Continental Unions never existed until after the World Wars.  They're expanding ever more, and soon they'll put constitutions in place that give them more power over the individual states.  Tell me, is that not what's happening in Europe already?

If this question is a bit personal I am sorry. but I am interested to know if you have any religious beliefs?

Its just I remember (not very well mind you) that in the Bilble it talks about or suggest a One World Government with a head figure who will be seen by many as a saviour. As bringing peace firstly to the Middle East with regards to Israel then "sorting out" the rest of the World. It also talks about opposition to this New World Order?

I too find it strange that Israel are backed unconditionally at times, almost as if we are duty bound to defend Israel. They too have commit serious offences against Palastinians.

I wish I could talk more about things like this as it is really interesting but to be honest I don't know enough to comment deeper into the subject.?

DISCLAIMER: In no way anything I have said is meant as any offence if any is taken, and this is just my interpretation of things and the way I have understood things.

[Parky]

Bluff what in your opinion is behind this global agenda, I am interested in the same vein as 09?

[BlufPurdi]

If this question is a bit personal I am sorry. but I am interested to know if you have any religious beliefs?

Its just I remember (not very well mind you) that in the Bilble it talks about or suggest a One World Government with a head figure who will be seen by many as a saviour. As bringing peace firstly to the Middle East with regards to Israel then "sorting out" the rest of the World. It also talks about opposition to this New World Order?

I too find it strange that Israel are backed unconditionally at times, almost as if we are duty bound to defend Israel. They too have commit serious offences against Palastinians.

I wish I could talk more about things like this as it is really interesting but to be honest I don't know enough to comment deeper into the subject.?

DISCLAIMER: In no way anything I have said is meant as any offence if any is taken, and this is just my interpretation of things and the way I have understood things.

No, I am not religious.  And it wasn't offensive, or personal, for me anyway.

But that's where it all comes from and why I believe this one world Government is also inevitable.  Especially with the way America is. 

[Parky]

Tell us more Bluff. bluebiggrin.gif

[BlufPurdi]

Bluff what in your opinion is behind this global agenda, I am interested in the same vein as 09?

A one world Government.  New World Order.  Whatever people want to call it, that's where I think we're headed. 

I'd like to hear other people's takes on it, I know there's many that don't agree, which I respect. 

America already see its self as the, and I quote to the word, 'the leader of the Free World'.  It would be in prime control of any Government.  Only thing is, this is never going to happen over a table, diplomatically.  Only an incredible war could instigate such actions.  Or some sort of Civil War in America, which I can't see, but I guess is as possible as WW3.

[Parky]

It starts with the Grail Bluff.....

[Shearer9]

I seriously doubt that America would ever be in a position to rule very large portions of the world.  We have trouble controlling one of the countries, imagine America attempting to control the entire middle east, or all of Africa or South America.  Wouldn't happen.  I don't think America would ever be leading the way in a one world government.  Sure, we like to have our fingers everywhere and be silently pulling strings, but if any movement towards a one world government will come, I'd imagine the push would be from the EU, with Economic promises to Africa and Asia. 

Bluf does make a good point about Israel, there's not even really a slant in the media about this, it's all Israel-good Muslims-bad.  Despite the fact that the spread of Islam makes me uneasy, I know for a fact that many Muslims want nothing but peace for themselves and the societies they live in.  I just wish that Christians in general had the passion that Muslims do, and feeling strong enough about their beliefs to be willing to die for them.

[BlufPurdi]

That's mainly why I think it would need to happen after something major.  Perhaps a Civil War in America with the EU going in to regain control.  Sounds insane, but at the moment it's as likely as a Nuclear Holocaust (WW3).  Thing is, you have to realise, I think a lot of these things are staged, so that's why I think it's going to happen, because the Elite want it to.

Things can't half change drastically and all of that is years off.  I'm not talking about a one world Government in the next decade.  More 20, if not more years away, but it is inevitable one way or the other.  Human Race is never going to explore space in future times as competing little nations. 

There's a lot left to happen before it, in my opinion. 

[80]

That's mainly why I think it would need to happen after something major.  Perhaps a Civil War in America with the EU going in to regain control.  Sounds insane, but at the moment it's as likely as a Nuclear Holocaust (WW3).  Thing is, you have to realise, I think a lot of these things are staged, so that's why I think it's going to happen, because the Elite want it to.

Things can't half change drastically and all of that is years off.  I'm not talking about a one world Government in the next decade.  More 20, if not more years away, but it is inevitable one way or the other.  Human Race is never going to explore space in future times as competing little nations. 

There's a lot left to happen before it, in my opinion. 

For the record, I very much agree that a lot of very powerful and influential people have consistantly attempted to move the Earth in the direct of Human unity through various means. I'm not so much thinking of Illuminati-type stuff, though.

There would be a lot of people who would argue that we'll only explore space (with particular vigour, at any rate) if "we" are comprised of competing states. That Human advancements are the result of conflict. Would the USA have put Armstrong and Aldrin on the Moon if there were no Soviets? It would be a total waste of time and money, surely. Shy of more apocalyptic visions (which I'm not averse to), sustainable world governance will only come about if/when we should make contact with aliens, or more to the point, alien civilisations that would be capable of harming us.

[Tisd09]

Power and fear can lead to World Dominance. Think if someone did "step out of line" in American eyes and they retaliated with all their power they could "wipe out" quite a few nations. This will be an awesome example of power which will lead to fear and thus being easier to "control" things.

The increase in wars over the nex 10-20 years will lead to many nations becoming weaker and many becoming stronger. I see it as a very real possibility that there could be one ruling nation over them all. The Great British Empire dominated a large portion of the world.

Now in this technological and media saturated World this power and dominance can be achived, with the coverage there to enhance the fear factor.

[Rob W]

What gets up my nose is the way everyone is runnign around shouting that Iran is about to blow up the world when the Israelis have had a "secret" (well, non admitted) bomb for years

If I was Iranian I'd be putting absolute maximum effort into getting a bomb - they are surrounded by N powers and any fool can see why Kim Il Sung is still in power and Saddam is sitting in the dock in Baghdad.

Set off one bucket of instant sunshine and watch people back off