Author Topic: Hugo Chavez Mega-thread.  (Read 68462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rehhagel

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 27 June 2006, 05:55:31 PM »
johnnypd

Quote
rob's right. but of course, the same is true of the capitalists in s america who are at the mercy of the imf and world bank. look where they took argentina.


Who are the capitalists in South America?
How are they at the mercy of the IMF and World Bank?

Offline Adam^

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 27 June 2006, 06:15:17 PM »
It's their country I agree - and if that's what they want  that's their lookout - he may be a financial genius of course or another Lee Kwan Yew in which case it's a good call

But he certainly should sort his own country out before trying to stir the s*** in other peopel's countries

I would suggest that he DOES need to keep an eye out for the CIA - the US Govt has a very long record of interfering in Latin America  - not that its done them a lot of good TBH




Exactly, if he goes pissing about in other countries other than giving them cheap oil or doing energy deals then its not good. And the CIA will obviously try something i can see it happening tbh.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #52 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 02:29:28 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1813471,00.html

Quote
Chávez calls for new talks on Falklands sovereignty

Associated Press in Caracas
Thursday July 6, 2006
The Guardian


Hugo Chávez, president of Venezuela, met his Argentinian counterpart Nestor Kirchner on Tuesday and signed a document urging Argentina and the UK to renew talks over the Falkland Islands.

Britain has repeatedly rejected Argentina's claim to the islands - about 400 miles off the Argentinian coast. An Argentine invasion of the territory prompted the 1982 war.

In the document Venezuela urged a "peaceful, fair and definitive solution to the sovereignty dispute ... including the principle of territorial integrity" and called on Argentina and the UK to renew negotiations "as soon as possible".

:lol:  Pushing it.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline 80

  • Administrator
  • General Member
  • Negative Cat
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 02:47:13 AM »
Kiss my dinkle, Hugo.

I always like the way we Humans use words. Two people having a debate and then one half claiming the other "isn't listening" to what they're saying, when what they actually mean is that they're not surrendering and complying.
Maturity is not Passivity.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #54 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 03:32:35 AM »
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1162836.ece

Quote
Bono drawn into dispute over computer game
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
Published: 06 July 2006

The Irish rock star Bono has been unwittingly caught up in a row over a computer game that features a fictionalised invasion of Venezuela to counter a "power-hungry tyrant" who has seized control of the country and its oil.

The computer game is played from the perspective of a mercenary who is dispatched to Venezuela with the guidance: "If you see it you can buy it, steal it, or blow the living crap out of it." Called Mercenaries 2: World in Flames, it is made byPandemic Studios, based in Los Angeles, in which a private equity firm established by the U2 lead singer has invested $300m (£165m). It is one of the world's largest independent games producers.

In Venezuela, political supporters of President Hugo Chavez have reacted angrily tonews of the game - reportedly due for release next year - and called for it to be banned. Gabriela Ramirez, a member of the National Assembly, told the Associated Press that it incorrectly portrayed Mr Chavez as a tyrant and Venezuela as a country on the verge of chaos.

"It sends a message to Americans, 'You have a danger next door, here in Latin America, and action must be taken'. It's a justification for an imperialist aggression."

In the US, activists are dismayed that a man who has campaigned on Aids and poverty should be linked, however unwittingly, to a product that makes entertainment from the destruction of an independent country.

Shirley Pate, of the Venezuelan Solidarity Network in Washington, said: " [The game shows] an attack on the entire city of Caracas, not just the government buildings but also the residential areas."

Gunnar Gundersen, a member of the Bolivarian Circle movement in Oregon, said: "We have family and friends in Venezuela and many of us have walked and stayed in the places featured in the war game. To us, these are not just clever abstract pictures."

Pandemic Studios has a reputation for the realism of its games. It has also produced Full Spectrum Warrior, a game that was initially made for the US Army to train soldiers in urban warfare techniques.

No one from Pandemic Studios or Elevation Investment was available for comment yesterday. A spokeswoman for Bono was unable to comment.

However, on an online games forum, Scott Walker, the chief designer for the game, recently wrote: "[This] is a work of fictional entertainment. The story, characters and setting of the game should in no way be construed as negative towards the current Venezuelan government or the people of the country.

"One of the key reasons Venezuela was chosen for the setting of Mercenaries 2 is that is a fascinating and colourful country, full of wonderful architecture, geography and culture."

Earlier this year, Mr Chavez started recruiting and training a people's militia to help lead a "war of resistance" against what he claims was the threat of an invasion by the US. The US has repeatedly denied the allegation.

Mr Chavez, who was first elected in 1998, survived a short-lived coup in 2002. The US has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to his political opponents, including those who were involved in the coup.

His presidency has seen improvements in literacy and health care and a reduction in poverty, but he has also been accused of increasingly tightening his control of state institutions and introducing measures that could stifle the largely opposition-owned media.

f*** Bono, to be honest.  The rest is bad enough.

Conditioning of the US people (youth?) into anti-Chavez feelings?
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #55 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 07:52:04 AM »
I'd say it was part of a brain-washing campaign, if that wasn't a contradiction in terms.

Offline Rehhagel

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #56 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 05:43:29 PM »
A computer game is a " justification for an imperialist aggression."  Gabriela Ramirez must be the joker for the National Assembly.

Forget the Israel lobby, it's Pandemic Studios that really dictates foreign policy in the U.S. and "conditions minds" (Bluff), they're not even a secret group either.

Jokers.


Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #57 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 05:44:40 PM »
Yep, and I really said they dictate foreign policy eh.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Rehhagel

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #58 on: Thursday 6 July 2006, 05:51:15 PM »
No, that's what Gabriela said, you said it conditions minds.

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #59 on: Friday 7 July 2006, 11:41:20 PM »
You've gotta respect what JP says:  :thup:

Source: http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=269

Quote

Chavez is a threat because he offers the alternative of a decent country
13 May 2006

Venezuela's president is using oil revenues to liberate the poor - no wonder his enemies want to overthrow him, writes John Pilger in the Guardian.

I have spent the past three weeks filming in the hillside barrios of Caracas, in streets and breeze-block houses that defy gravity and torrential rain and emerge at night like fireflies in the fog.

Caracas is said to be one of the world's toughest cities, yet I have known no fear; the poorest have welcomed my colleagues and me with a warmth characteristic of ordinary Venezuelans but also with the unmistakable confidence of a people who know that change is possible and who, in their everyday lives, are reclaiming noble concepts long emptied of their meaning in the west: "reform", "popular democracy", "equity", "social justice" and, yes, "freedom".

The other night, in a room bare except for a single fluorescent tube, I heard these words spoken by the likes of Ana Lucia Fernandez, aged 86, Celedonia Oviedo, aged 74, and Mavis Mendez, aged 95. A mere 33-year-old, Sonia Alvarez, had come with her two young children. Until about a year ago, none of them could read and write; now they are studying mathematics. For the first time in its modern era, Venezuela has almost 100% literacy.

This achievement is due to a national programme, called Mision Robinson, designed for adults and teenagers previously denied an education because of poverty. Mision Ribas is giving everyone a secondary school education, called a bachillerato. (The names Robinson and Ribas refer to Venezuelan independence leaders from the 19th century.) Named, like much else here, after the great liberator Simon Bolivar, "Bolivarian", or people's, universities have opened, introducing, as one parent told me, "treasures of the mind, history and music and art, we barely knew existed". Under Hugo Chávez, Venezuela is the first major oil producer to use its oil revenue to liberate the poor.

Mavis Mendez has seen, in her 95 years, a parade of governments preside over the theft of tens of billions of dollars in oil spoils, much of it flown to Miami, together with the steepest descent into poverty ever known in Latin America; from 18% in 1980 to 65% in 1995, three years before Chávez was elected. "We didn't matter in a human sense," she said. "We lived and died without real education and running water, and food we couldn't afford. When we fell ill, the weakest died. In the east of the city, where the mansions are, we were invisible, or we were feared. Now I can read and write my name, and so much more; and whatever the rich and their media say, we have planted the seeds of true democracy, and I am full of joy that I have lived to witness it."

Latin American governments often give their regimes a new sense of legitimacy by holding a constituent assembly that drafts a new constitution. When he was elected in 1998, Chávez used this brilliantly to decentralise, to give the impoverished grassroots power they had never known and to begin to dismantle a corrupt political superstructure as a prerequisite to changing the direction of the economy. His setting-up of misions as a means of bypassing saboteurs in the old, corrupt bureaucracy was typical of the extraordinary political and social imagination that is changing Venezuela peacefully. This is his "Bolivarian revolution", which, at this stage, is not dissimilar to the post-war European social democracies.

Chávez, a former army major, was anxious to prove he was not yet another military "strongman". He promised that his every move would be subject to the will of the people. In his first year as president in 1999, he held an unprecedented number of votes: a referendum on whether or not people wanted a new constituent assembly; elections for the assembly; a second referendum ratifying the new constitution - 71% of the people approved each of the 396 articles that gave Mavis and Celedonia and Ana Lucia, and their children and grandchildren, unheard-of freedoms, such as Article 123, which for the first time recognised the human rights of mixed-race and black people, of whom Chávez is one. "The indigenous peoples," it says, "have the right to maintain their own economic practices, based on reciprocity, solidarity and exchange ... and to define their priorities ... " The little red book of the Venezuelan constitution became a bestseller on the streets. Nora Hernandez, a community worker in Petare barrio, took me to her local state-run supermarket, which is funded entirely by oil revenue and where prices are up to half those in the commercial chains. Proudly, she showed me articles of the constitution written on the backs of soap-powder packets. "We can never go back," she said.

In La Vega barrio, I listened to a nurse, Mariella Machado, a big round black woman of 45 with a wonderfully wicked laugh, stand and speak at an urban land council on subjects ranging from homelessness to the Iraq war. That day, they were launching Mision Madres de Barrio, a programme aimed specifically at poverty among single mothers. Under the constitution, women have the right to be paid as carers, and can borrow from a special women's bank. From next month, the poorest housewives will get about £120 a month. It is not surprising that Chávez has now won eight elections and referendums in eight years, each time increasing his majority, a world record. He is the most popular head of state in the western hemisphere, probably in the world. That is why he survived, amazingly, a Washington-backed coup in 2002. Mariella and Celedonia and Nora and hundreds of thousands of others came down from the barrios and demanded that the army remain loyal. "The people rescued me," Chávez told me. "They did it with all the media against me, preventing even the basic facts of what had happened. For popular democracy in heroic action, I suggest you need look no further."

The venomous attacks on Chávez, who arrives in London tomorrow, have begun and resemble uncannily those of the privately owned Venezuelan television and press, which called for the elected government to be overthrown. Fact-deprived attacks on Chávez in the Times and the Financial Times this week, each with that peculiar malice reserved for true dissenters from Thatcher's and Blair's one true way, follow a travesty of journalism on Channel 4 News last month, which effectively accused the Venezuelan president of plotting to make nuclear weapons with Iran, an absurd fantasy. The reporter sneered at policies to eradicate poverty and presented Chávez as a sinister buffoon, while Donald Rumsfeld was allowed to liken him to Hitler, unchallenged. In contrast, Tony Blair, a patrician with no equivalent democratic record, having been elected by a fifth of those eligible to vote and having caused the violent death of tens of thousands of Iraqis, is allowed to continue spinning his truly absurd political survival tale.

Chávez is, of course, a threat, especially to the United States. Like the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, who based their revolution on the English co-operative moment, and the moderate Allende in Chile, he offers the threat of an alternative way of developing a decent society: in other words, the threat of a good example in a continent where the majority of humanity has long suffered a Washington-designed peonage. In the US media in the 1980s, the "threat" of tiny Nicaragua was seriously debated until it was crushed. Venezuela is clearly being "softened up" for something similar. A US army publication, Doctrine for Asymmetric War against Venezuela, describes Chávez and the Bolivarian revolution as the "largest threat since the Soviet Union and Communism". When I said to Chávez that the US historically had had its way in Latin America, he replied: "Yes, and my assassination would come as no surprise. But the empire is in trouble, and the people of Venezuela will resist an attack. We ask only for the support of all true democrats."

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #60 on: Friday 7 July 2006, 11:51:07 PM »
When I said to Chávez that the US historically had had its way in Latin America, he replied: "Yes, and my assassination would come as no surprise. But the empire is in trouble, and the people of Venezuela will resist an attack. We ask only for the support of all true democrats."

 blueyes.gif

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #61 on: Friday 7 July 2006, 11:57:47 PM »
Viva Hugo!!

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #62 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 12:07:34 AM »
Viva compadre!! :banana:

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #63 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 12:13:24 AM »
More from JP:

Source: http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=349

Quote

America's new enemy
14 Nov 2005

Latin Americans have spent the past few years finding their voices. Now they may have the strength to defy their northern neighbour.
 
I was dropped at Paradiso, the last middle-class area before La Vega barrio, which spills into a ravine as if by the force of gravity. Storms were forecast and people were anxious, remembering the mudslides of 1999 that took 20,000 lives. "Why are you here?" asked the man sitting opposite me in the packed jeep-bus that chugged up the hill. Like so many in Latin America, he appeared old, but wasn't. Without waiting for my answer, he listed why he supported President Hugo Chavez: schools, clinics, affordable food, "our constitution, our democracy" and "for the first time, the oil money is going to us". I asked him if he belonged to the MVR (Movement for the Fifth Republic), Chavez's party, "No, I've never been in a political party; I can only tell you how my life has been changed, as I never dreamt."

It is raw witness like this, which I have heard over and over again in Venezuela, that smashes the one-way mirror between the west and a continent that is rising. By rising, I mean the phenomenon of millions of people stirring once again, "like lions after slumber/In unvanquishable number", wrote Shelley in The Mask of Anarchy. This is not romantic; an epic is unfolding in Latin America that demands our attention beyond the stereotypes and cliches that diminish whole societies to their degree of exploitation and expendability.

To the man in the bus, and to Beatrice whose children are being immunised and taught history, art and music for the first time, and Celedonia, in her seventies, reading and writing for the first time, and Jose whose life was saved by a doctor in the middle of the night, the first doctor he had ever seen, Chavez is neither a "firebrand" nor an "autocrat" but a humanitarian and a democrat who commands almost two-thirds of the popular vote, accredited by victories in no fewer than nine elections. Compare that with the fifth of the British electorate that reinstalled an authentic autocrat in Downing Street.

Chavez and the rise of popular social movements, from Colombia down to Argentina, represent bloodless, radical change across the continent, inspired by the great independence struggles that began with Simon BolIvar, born in 1783 in Venezuela, who brought the ideas of the French Revolution to societies cowed by Spanish absolutism. BolIvar, like Che Guevara in the 1960s and Chavez today, understood the new colonial master to the north. "The USA," he said in 1819, "appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty."

At the Summit of the Americas in Quebec City in 2001, George Bush announced the latest misery in the name of liberty in the form of a Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) treaty. This would finally allow the United States to impose its ideological "market", neoliberalism, on all of Latin America. It was the natural successor to Bill Clinton's North American Free Trade Agreement, which has turned Mexico into a US sweatshop. Bush boasted it would be law by 2005.

On 5 November, Bush arrived at the 2005 summit in Mar del Plata, Argentina, to be told his FTAA was not even on the agenda. Among the 34 heads of state were new, uncompliant faces and behind all of them were populations no longer willing to accept US-backed business tyrannies. Never before have Latin American governments had to consult their people on pseudo agreements of this kind; but now they must.

In Bolivia, in the past five years, social movements have got rid of governments and foreign corporations alike, such as the tentacular Bechtel, which sought to impose what people call total locura capitalista - total capitalist folly - the privatising of almost everything, especially natural gas and water. Following Pinochet's Chile, Bolivia was to be a neoliberal laboratory. The poorest of the poor were charged up to two-thirds of their pittance-income even for rainwater.

Standing in the bleak, freezing, cobble-stoned streets of El Alto, 14,000 feet up in the Andes, or sitting in the breeze-block homes of former miners and campesinos driven off their land, I have had political discussions of a kind seldom ignited in Britain and the US. They are direct and eloquent. "Why are we so poor," they say, "when our country is so rich? Why do governments lie to us and represent outside powers?" They refer to 500 years of conquest as if it is a living presence, which it is, tracing a journey from the Spanish plunder of Cerro Rico, a hill of silver mined by indigenous slave labour and which underwrote the Spanish empire for three centuries. When the silver was gone, there was tin, and when the mines were privatised in the 1970s at the behest of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), tin collapsed, along with 30,000 jobs. When the coca leaf replaced it - chewing it curbs hunger - the Bolivian army, coerced by the US, began destroying the coca crops and filling the prisons.

 

In 2000, open rebellion burst upon the white business oligarchs and the US embassy whose fortress stands like an Andean Vatican in the centre of La Paz. There was never anything like it, because it came from the majority Indian population "to protect our indigenous soul". Naked racism against indigenous peoples all over Latin America is the Spanish legacy. They were despised or invisible, or curios for tourists: the women in their bowler hats and colourful skirts. No more. Led by visionaries such as Oscar Olivera, the women in bowler hats and colourful skirts encircled and shut down the country's second city, Cochabamba, until their water was returned to public ownership.

Every year since, people have fought a water or gas war: essentially a war against privatisation and poverty. Having driven out President Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada in 2003, Bolivians voted in a referendum for real democracy. Through the social movements, they demanded a constituent assembly similar to that which founded Chavez's BolIvarian revolution in Venezuela, together with the rejection of the FTAA and all the other "free trade" agreements, the expulsion of the transnational water companies and a 50 per cent tax on the exploitation of all energy resources.

When the replacement president, Carlos Mesa, refused to implement the programme he was forced to resign. Presidential elections are scheduled for 4 December and the opposition MAS (Movement to Socialism) may well turn out the old order. The leader is an indigenous former coca farmer, Evo Morales, whom the US ambassador has likened to Osama Bin Laden. In fact, he is a social democrat who, for many of those who sealed off Cochabamba and marched down the mountain from El Alto, moderates too much.

"This is not going to be easy," Abel Mamani, the indigenous president of the El Alto Federation of Neighbourhood Associations, told me. "The elections won't be a solution even if we win. What we need to guarantee is the constituent assembly, from which we build a democracy based not on what the US wants, but on social justice." The writer Pablo Solon, son of the great political muralist Walter Solon, said: "The story of Bolivia is the story of the government behind the government. The US can create a financial crisis; but really for them it is ideological; they say they will not accept another Chavez."

The people, however, will not accept another Washington quisling. The lesson is Ecuador, where a helicopter saved Lucio Gutierrez as he fled the presidential palace in April. Having won power in alliance with the indigenous Pachakutik movement, he was the "Ecuadorian Chavez", until he drowned in a corruption scandal. For ordinary Latin Americans, corruption on high is no longer forgivable. That is one of two reasons the Workers' Party government of President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva is barely marking time in Brazil; the other is the priority he has given to an IMF economic agenda, rather than to his own people. In Argentina, social movements saw off five pro-Washington presidents in 2001 and 2002. Across the water in Uruguay, the Frente Amplio, socialist heirs to the Tupamaros, the guerrillas of the 1970s who fought one of the CIA's most vicious terror campaigns, formed a popular government last year.

The social movements are now a decisive force in every Latin American country - even in the state of fear that is the Colombia of Alvaro Uribe Velez, Bush's most loyal vassal. Last month, an indigenous movement marched through every one of Colombia's 32 provinces demanding an end to "an evil as great as the gun": neoliberalism. All over Latin America, Hugo Chavez is the modern BolIvar. People admire his political imagination and his courage. Only he has had the guts to describe the United States as a source of terrorism and Bush as Senor Peligro (Mr Danger). He is very different from Fidel Castro, whom he respects. Venezuela is an extraordinarily open society with an unfettered opposition that is rich and still powerful. On the left, there are those who oppose the state in principle, believe its reforms have reached their limit, and want power to flow directly from the community. They say so vigorously, yet they support Chavez. A fluent young anarchist, Marcel, showed me the clinic where Cuban doctors gave his girlfriend critical emergency treatment. (In a barter arrangement, Venezuela gives Cuba oil in exchange for doctors.)

At the entrance to every barrio there is a state supermarket, where everything from staple food to washing-up liquid costs 40 per cent less than in commercial stores. Despite specious accusations that the government has instituted censorship, most of the media remains violently anti-Chavez: a large part of it in the hands of Gustavo Cisneros, Latin America's Rupert Murdoch, who backed the failed attempt to depose Chavez in April 2002. What is different is the proliferation of lively community radio stations which played a crucial part in Chavez's rescue then by calling on people to march on Caracas.

While the world looks to Iran and Syria for the next Bush attack, Venezuelans know they may well be next. On 17 March, the Washington Post reported that Feliz RodrIguez, "a former CIA operative well connected to the Bush family", had taken part in the planning of the assassination of the president of Venezuela. On 16 September, Chavez said, "I have evidence that there are plans to invade Venezuela. Furthermore, we have documentation: how many bombers will over-fly Venezuela on the day of the invasion . . . the US is carrying out manoeuvres on Curacao Island. It is called Operation Balboa." Since then, leaked internal Pentagon documents have identified Venezuela as a "post-Iraq threat" requiring "full spectrum" planning.

The old-young man in the jeep, Beatrice and her healthy children, and Celedonia with her "new esteem", are indeed a threat - the threat of an alternative, decent world that some lament is no longer possible. Well, it is, and it deserves our support.

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #64 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 10:36:54 AM »
aye well if they can't get their political systems right after 170 years.............

Why do all their leaders finish up stealing from the people?   
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline Rehhagel

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #65 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 01:55:21 PM »
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've gotta respect what JP says:


Quote
"...he has "seldom felt as safe in any country" as in Saddam's Iraq, a claim he usually follows up by presenting Blair's Britain in contrast as "a police state". " - Johann Hari on Pilger - http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/article752189.ece

According to my secret right wing source, he said this on Jan 7th 2005 in "The Independent"

Quote
John Pilger - who says he has "seldom felt as safe in any country" as when he visited Saddam's Iraq - now openly supports the resistance on the grounds that "we can't afford to be choosy".  - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68468


John Pilger, gotta respect what he says.


Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #66 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 03:28:07 PM »
Pilger - mad as a hatter these days - worse than the cross-eyed tea drinking lunatic Benn IMHO

Sees conspiracy everywhere - pity he was a good journo 30 years ago
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #67 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 04:48:14 PM »
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've gotta respect what JP says:


Quote
"...he has "seldom felt as safe in any country" as in Saddam's Iraq, a claim he usually follows up by presenting Blair's Britain in contrast as "a police state". " - Johann Hari on Pilger - http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/article752189.ece

According to my secret right wing source, he said this on Jan 7th 2005 in "The Independent"

Quote
John Pilger - who says he has "seldom felt as safe in any country" as when he visited Saddam's Iraq - now openly supports the resistance on the grounds that "we can't afford to be choosy".  - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68468


John Pilger, gotta respect what he says.



That quote might well be technically correct, there was much less crime and disorder when Saddam was in power than there is now, it's an obvious fact, saying so, does not make someone a supporter of Saddam Hussein. I notice neither of them, neither Hari or the other fella, quote any further from what Pilger has said on the subject, I wonder why? Surely, if he was a supporter of Saddam, as both they, and you, are trying to imply, then there would be much more explicit quotes available than that one.

Even if that is what he believes, given that no-one is perfect and everybody makes their fair share of mistakes and misjudgements, I think that I, for one, could forgive John Pilger this one statement. The man's a living legend, and deservedly so, he's brought the attention of people who would otherwise never ever have known to some of the most important issues of our times; he's reported from places no-one else would go to and about issues no-one else had/has the balls to tackle; he's given publicity and therefore hope to people who had none. To those who criticise him I ask this: What the f*** have you ever done!?!

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #68 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 06:44:37 PM »
Bought his books?

The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #69 on: Saturday 8 July 2006, 06:51:21 PM »
I'm reading Hidden Agendas as we speak - well not literally, like - and it's massively powerful.

I almost bought his new one today, but I'll wait for the paperback.

Which ones have you read Rob?

I did get this though: :D


Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #70 on: Sunday 9 July 2006, 09:45:52 AM »
The oil gives Hugo a chance to build a resistence economy around it. It is a very difficult transition moving from a 'hostage economy' over to more de-centralised planning models.

The ordinary people of Venezuala have been energised by being able to see first hand and quite quickly the trickle down of policy and ideology change. In phase one this is always critical and builds a mass awareness.

Btw the reason Hugo seems to be meddling and trying to build coalitions with neighbours and other like minded leaders......Is because he is clever enough to know...VENEZUALA WILL FAIL ALONE.

Viva la revalucion!! :banana:

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #71 on: Sunday 9 July 2006, 10:51:30 AM »
oh god.... Heroes, Secret Lies, Distant voices, his early book on E timor ...............

The trouble I find is that he's got morestrident and more into conspiracy theories as time goes on - less the investigative journo and more the lunatic writing in green ink........................................
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline indi

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #72 on: Sunday 9 July 2006, 10:54:55 AM »
oh god.... Heroes, Secret Lies, Distant voices, his early book on E timor ...............

The trouble I find is that he's got morestrident and more into conspiracy theories as time goes on - less the investigative journo and more the lunatic writing in green ink........................................

For example?

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #73 on: Sunday 9 July 2006, 11:06:45 AM »
my opinion I guess
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: An Audience With Hugo Chavez.
« Reply #74 on: Sunday 9 July 2006, 11:09:15 AM »
The oil gives Hugo a chance to build a resistence economy around it. It is a very difficult transition moving from a 'hostage economy' over to more de-centralised planning models.

The ordinary people of Venezuala have been energised by being able to see first hand and quite quickly the trickle down of policy and ideology change. In phase one this is always critical and builds a mass awareness.

Btw the reason Hugo seems to be meddling and trying to build coalitions with neighbours and other like minded leaders......Is because he is clever enough to know...VENEZUALA WILL FAIL ALONE.

Viva la revalucion!! :banana:


Y'know Parky  no-one really wants to be part of a "resistance economy" - they want to be part of sucessfull, growing AND fair economy.    I can see nowt but pain ahead

and I do agree he'll fail - its economic illeratacy, the man on a white horse syndrome and a lot of people inside and outside of his country are actively working to see him fail.  Gone by mid 2008 is my guess
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense