Author Topic: It's not all Shepherds fault  (Read 6720 times)

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Kenton Magpie

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It's not all Shepherds fault
« on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:38:57 AM »
Roeder is just as much to blame, he sets the team out to play his way and as we know the way he does this is just if not worse than the rubbish we saw under the grim reeper souness

alex

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:45:45 AM »
Roeder is just as much to blame, he sets the team out to play his way and as we know the way he does this is just if not worse than the rubbish we saw under the grim reeper souness
:lol: Who appointed Roeder again?

Morph

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:46:31 AM »
Roeder is just as much to blame, he sets the team out to play his way and as we know the way he does this is just if not worse than the rubbish we saw under the grim reeper souness
:lol: Who appointed Roeder again?

exactly.

who also appointed dalglish, gullit and souness?

rosstoon

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:46:41 AM »
Whos appointed Roeder yep that was shephard. Who backed every manager with millions and millions that was shephard aswell

Morph

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:47:18 AM »
Whos appointed Roeder yep that was shephard. Who backed every manager with millions and millions that was shephard aswell

but he backed the wrong guys with millions and millions.

NUFCnutter

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 10:51:53 AM »
and who gave Newcastle United those millions and millions to back the managers? US that's who. Its our money that we put in the club, week in, week out! The fact that Shepherd has allowed numerous managers to waste the money with no return is another reason why he should go!

SHEPHERD OUT!!!!

thompers

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:07:37 AM »
:lol: Most stupid thread ever.

ArtyH

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:10:47 AM »
As Shepherd states he is a fan as well as the chairman, listening to his comments of past signings makes me feel a lot of them have been made out of a nepotistic way. To fulfill his own desire, I remember him saying Hugo Viana was one of his best signings when he arrived, yes we all know how that one went.
The club needs a clean out from top to bottom, so we can get some respect back from the rest of the football world. We have fallen a long way from grace when the reigns were handed over to Shepherd by Sir John Hall, I well remember to good old days under Hall when The TOON were every ones favourites, how soon that feeling can evaporate, we are now a joke. Face it , its true, the only way to change it is to make Shepherd go, then start to rebuild with genuine people who know what they are doing, and have genuine feelings for the supporters.
At this moment in time most genuine supporters are apathetic and in denial , most have lost the passion of recent years, due to p*ss poor displays.
It has got to change so we can get some respect back from the football community!!!

Offline johnnypd

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:10:54 AM »
Kenton, if we simply go after Roeder then the responsibility of finding a new manager will once again fall into Shepherd's hands, and we'll be back to square one when he appoints the wrong man again. this time we have to go after the source of the problems.

Offline colinmk

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:13:21 AM »
Hmmm thread moderation should maybe be allowed for some circumstances  :winking:

Kenton Magpie

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:16:55 AM »
I want Shepherd out as much as the next fan, but people need to stop looking past Roeder and landing all the blame on Shepherd's doorstep, he listened to the fans who where chanting Glenn Roeders name at the back end of last season (you know who you are no matter how much you deny it now), he has backed every manager with millions to improve the squad, he may be a liar a money man and a poor chairman for appointing the last and previous manager but all i am saying is Roeder is not totally void from the blame, like i said he manages the team, he said he could get the best out of the defense, but just because he is a Mr Nice guy people let him off.

SHEPHERD AND ROEDER OUT!!

Offline Ian W

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:22:02 AM »
I want Shepherd out as much as the next fan, but people need to stop looking past Roeder and landing all the blame on Shepherd's doorstep, he listened to the fans who where chanting Glenn Roeders name at the back end of last season

Like I've said in other threads, fair enough some fans were calling for Roeder. But Shepherd isn't supposed to just appoint whoever the fans ask for just because it's popular, he's supposed to know better than us and do what is right for the club. Any numpty can listen to what the fans are chanting and give them the job.

His popularist moves are a symptom of the fact he just wants to appease the fans in the short term each time and maintain his own position.

Ridzuan

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:24:31 AM »
I think we have too much discussion on this already.But if youre asking my view on it,yes I agree.Its not just Shepherd fault,but Roeder as well.Nevertheless,Shepherd is the main reason for our declining since the last 2 seasons or so.

Kenton Magpie

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:25:51 AM »
Agreed!

Offline Cronky

  • General Member
Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:31:26 AM »
No-one's saying that Roeder's perfect, but there's a wider picture here.

The most important thing that any Chairman has to do is to find the best possible manager available. He then has to financially back that manager's decisions about staff and players to the best he can, with the resources available. Those are the basics.

Shepherd hasn't done that. He intervenes far too much in transfer activity, not trusting his manager's judgements. Look at Sir Bob's book for details. He also seems to be determined to give the job to Shearer at some stage, and to give him some kind of role in the club in the interim. That's a big deterrent to good managerial candidates.

The greatest managers in the world would not be able to function in those circumstances. If they are responsible for results, they have to be given full control over the means to get those results. No organisation functions well when power and responsibility are divided off like that.
People generalise too much.

Phil K

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:55:13 AM »
Yes, certainly it's not all Shepherd's fault.
And equally yes, Roeder should rightly, be castigated.
Roeder's abortion of an attempt at last minute dealings should what little nous he has for the transfer game.
No bargains, no delight from the fans at a surprise deal, just the lunacy of a FOUR MONTH loan from Man U to give their young potential a run out at a "lesser" club of no import any longer. Would he have been shipped to Liverpool for example ? And he hasnt even played him, for God's sake even though we need help and theres half the loan gone already. Embarrasing.
Glenn's a nice bloke and we would all loved him to succed. But he wont because he's not cut out for this level. The academy was right.
Shepherd was right to get shot of Bobby. But the way he did it was terrible. He should have been moved upstairs at the end of the previous season, not sacked.
But this is the main problem. Shepherd does not have the touch. The only touch he seems to have is the same as the directors of the 60's and 70's.
Take but not give.
Hall gave and took.
The fans all say "You deserve it" if a chairman coins it in after doing a good job. And remember, John hall didnt actually win anything, but took us close.
Shepherd has been an unmitigated disaster. Yet still is coining it in - westwood had an eye patch. He rightly got the name of pirate, and little respect. At least we won the UEFA (Fairs at the time) Cup under his chairmanship. The only thing Shepherd looks like "winning" is a hat trick of relegations for Roeder.
SHEPHERD OUT.
END THE MADNESS.

Phil K

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 11:58:41 AM »
No-one's saying that Roeder's perfect, but there's a wider picture here.

The greatest managers in the world would not be able to function in those circumstances. If they are responsible for results, they have to be given full control over the means to get those results. No organisation functions well when power and responsibility are divided off like that.
Roeder isn't even lower league standard, never mind good.
The mess on Aug 31 showed that amply.
Shepherd and Roeder are the Disatrous Duo, Fatman and Roeder. :roll:

Imperio

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 12:27:30 PM »
It all goes back to Shepherd, if he had got it right after he fired Robson, then we wouldnt be in the mess we are in now. Fair enough, he backs his managers, but he's backing the ones that arent going to take us anywhere, even backwards in the case of Souness.

You can blame Roeder for bad results, but you've also got to look at why he's manager, and not a world class manager like we were promised.


Offline ChezGiven

  • General Member
Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 12:33:23 PM »
Kenton, if we simply go after Roeder then the responsibility of finding a new manager will once again fall into Shepherd's hands, and we'll be back to square one when he appoints the wrong man again. this time we have to go after the source of the problems.

Spot on. There is no point harping on about Roeder as this guarantees Fred another chance at choosing a manager which he has failed at doing successfully apart from on one occassion out of five.

Bring back Frank Watt thats what i say.


Offline Cronky

  • General Member
Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 12:47:52 PM »
No-one's saying that Roeder's perfect, but there's a wider picture here.

The greatest managers in the world would not be able to function in those circumstances. If they are responsible for results, they have to be given full control over the means to get those results. No organisation functions well when power and responsibility are divided off like that.
Roeder isn't even lower league standard, never mind good.
The mess on Aug 31 showed that amply.
Shepherd and Roeder are the Disatrous Duo, Fatman and Roeder. :roll:

Yes, but whose mess was it? It's made explicit in Sir Bob's book, and it's been backed up by strong indications with Souness and Roeder, that all the manager is allowed to do is give the Chairman a list of the players he wants. The setting of priorities within that list, timing of bids, the amount of bids, is in the Chairman's hands. The manager is only one of a number of people who Shepherd consults.

No top manager would put up with that. No manager can make a success in such a crucial area, operating in that way.
People generalise too much.

Invicta_Toon

  • Guest
Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 01:49:11 PM »
No-one's saying that Roeder's perfect, but there's a wider picture here.

The greatest managers in the world would not be able to function in those circumstances. If they are responsible for results, they have to be given full control over the means to get those results. No organisation functions well when power and responsibility are divided off like that.
Roeder isn't even lower league standard, never mind good.
The mess on Aug 31 showed that amply.
Shepherd and Roeder are the Disatrous Duo, Fatman and Roeder. :roll:

Yes, but whose mess was it? It's made explicit in Sir Bob's book, and it's been backed up by strong indications with Souness and Roeder, that all the manager is allowed to do is give the Chairman a list of the players he wants. The setting of priorities within that list, timing of bids, the amount of bids, is in the Chairman's hands. The manager is only one of a number of people who Shepherd consults.

No top manager would put up with that. No manager can make a success in such a crucial area, operating in that way.

that's all Mourinho does tbh.

It comes down to who you put on the list

And don't forget there is anecdotal evidence theat FF chooses players without consulting the manager

Offline OzzieMandias

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 01:57:57 PM »

that's all Mourinho does tbh.


Aye, but he has a) Peter Kenyon and b) Roman Abramovich to hand the list to. And as they're a) smarter and b) much, much richer than Fat Freddy -- not to mention hugely more ambitious -- he tends to get who he wants.

Invicta_Toon

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 01:59:37 PM »

that's all Mourinho does tbh.


Aye, but he has a) Peter Kenyon and b) Roman Abramovich to hand the list to. And as they're a) smarter and b) much, much richer than Fat Freddy -- not to mention hugely more ambitious -- he tends to get who he wants.

so you want a chairman manager?

much like they have in League One?

only 2 years to wait..

Offline OzzieMandias

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Re: It's not all Shepherds fault
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:00:36 PM »
Please don't put words into my mouth. That's NE5's job.