Poll

Should this woman have been jailed?

Yes
6 (37.5%)
No
10 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Is community service enough?  (Read 3958 times)

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Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Is community service enough?
« on: Monday 23 October 2006, 02:59:48 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/6076112.stm

Quote
Mother spared jail for baby death

A mother who started a fire in which her four-month-old son died has been spared jail at Newcastle Crown Court.

Danielle Wails had claimed she was tied up by intruders who started the fire at her Newcastle home in August 2005.

She denied the murder of Alexander Gallon but her guilty plea to infanticide was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court.

The 22-year-old was given a three-year community order with a period of supervision and other requirements.

Paul Sloan QC, prosecuting, said the opinion of two psychiatrists was that the balance of her mind was disturbed when the incident occurred.

Consultant psychiatrist Adrian East told the court he was satisfied Wails was suffering from post-natal depression and had been diagnosed with the symptoms in the months before the killing.

On Monday, the court heard Wails had started the fire in the Cowgate area of Newcastle to try to win back the baby's father Robert Gallon, from whom she had split after a series of rows.

The court heard Wails had claimed she was not supported by health and social services staff but records showed she had missed some appointments and that efforts to contact her had proved futile.

Wails told people that Alexander was ill and needed hospital treatment, which proved to be lies.

After Alexander's death, it emerged Wails had bombarded Mr Gallon and his family with phone calls and texts in a reconciliation bid.

Mr Sloan said: "There were many other false claims. It would seem that the underlying purpose behind these false claims was to win back her partner's sympathies and support.

"She was also bombarding people with calls to find out where Robert Gallon was. She clearly wanted him to return to her."

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 03:06:30 PM »
I don't think putting her in jail would help, I've no idea what post-natal depression would feel like, but putting her in jail isn't going to benefit anyone.  She's in clear need of help.

You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Parky

  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 03:09:32 PM »
Agreed. It seems she has psychological problems that need looking at and going through this tragedy is punishment enough for her, she must feel terrible.

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 03:11:45 PM »
PND is a well established condition and its been the cause of a seteady stream of tragedies over the years

TBH the docotors should brief expectant mums and their famillies more on it  so people can see what is happening and maybe react or ask for help in time
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Offline Dokko

  • TT
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 05:58:41 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/6076112.stm

Quote
Mother spared jail for baby death

A mother who started a fire in which her four-month-old son died has been spared jail at Newcastle Crown Court.

Danielle Wails had claimed she was tied up by intruders who started the fire at her Newcastle home in August 2005.

She denied the murder of Alexander Gallon but her guilty plea to infanticide was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court.

The 22-year-old was given a three-year community order with a period of supervision and other requirements.

Paul Sloan QC, prosecuting, said the opinion of two psychiatrists was that the balance of her mind was disturbed when the incident occurred.

Consultant psychiatrist Adrian East told the court he was satisfied Wails was suffering from post-natal depression and had been diagnosed with the symptoms in the months before the killing.

On Monday, the court heard Wails had started the fire in the Cowgate area of Newcastle to try to win back the baby's father Robert Gallon, from whom she had split after a series of rows.

The court heard Wails had claimed she was not supported by health and social services staff but records showed she had missed some appointments and that efforts to contact her had proved futile.

Wails told people that Alexander was ill and needed hospital treatment, which proved to be lies.

After Alexander's death, it emerged Wails had bombarded Mr Gallon and his family with phone calls and texts in a reconciliation bid.

Mr Sloan said: "There were many other false claims. It would seem that the underlying purpose behind these false claims was to win back her partner's sympathies and support.

"She was also bombarding people with calls to find out where Robert Gallon was. She clearly wanted him to return to her."

There's a failure in the system which has been tragically identified here (for me anyway)

She missed appointments and was diagnosed with PND? Nobody thought it was priority to chase her up?

Her ex is just as much to blame, knowing she was ill and leaving her with a baby, idiot, and now he pays too.

Tragic, but she shouldn't be in prison and really the question should be aimed at those who did not chase this up, did they do enough morally and to the letter of the law, and if so, should the law be changed? ie, issue a warrant for her arrest.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 06:16:51 PM »
She's f***ed anyway, just seen the news and the people in her area are less than impressed, or remotely sympathetic.

What does Dave think about this, by the way?
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline GeordieMessiah

  • Forum Colossus
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 06:29:00 PM »
So easy to blame the social workers. Always the scapegoats in cases like this. Not that I'm excusing from any neglect of duties as Toon's Taylor has pointed out already - but honest to God, their job isn't one I'd wish upon my worst enemy.
Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name
And the corporate snakes coming in to feed
On that pathetic fact known as human greed
Skin and bone being raked over those hot coals
This dump never seems to give time for human soul

Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 06:46:15 PM »
She's f***ed anyway, just seen the news and the people in her area are less than impressed, or remotely sympathetic.

What does Dave think about this, by the way?

Initially I was outraged but your first post is most agreeable thinking about it.

Offline S.S.R.

  • Photoshop King
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 23 October 2006, 08:16:10 PM »
I knew a lass who got drugged up and set her flat ablaze. Her and her mate got the foam out of her settee and started a little fire.

Got a community order because she was 'depressed'. Never too depressed to spend her big disability cheque on the p*ss a few nights a week, though.

Invicta_Toon

  • Guest
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 01:44:24 AM »
at the end of the day, there always some crimes where I just think, seriously, as if that person was in their right mind to have done such a thing, that they need to be tried in the normal way


what you do f***ing do with them I have no idea though.

Offline Howaythelads

  • Clueless
  • General Member
  • Auld
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:14:54 AM »
She's f***ed anyway, just seen the news and the people in her area are less than impressed, or remotely sympathetic.

What does Dave think about this, by the way?

He was sitting on the fence waiting to see what his superiors thought about it.
HTL

Magnetic North

  • Guest
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:15:37 PM »
Aside from the f***ing hopeless shortcomings of the agencies involved, and of course the oft-wrong psychiatrists, the thought of Danielle Wails having further children worries me gravely. Post-natal depression is widely recognised but in this case the condition became a vehicle for the destruction of an innocent young life.

Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:32:23 PM »
She's f***ed anyway, just seen the news and the people in her area are less than impressed, or remotely sympathetic.

What does Dave think about this, by the way?

He was sitting on the fence waiting to see what his superiors thought about it.

Ouch! You're so cutting!

Offline Rob W

  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:36:37 PM »
Aside from the f***ing hopeless shortcomings of the agencies involved, and of course the oft-wrong psychiatrists, the thought of Danielle Wails having further children worries me gravely. Post-natal depression is widely recognised but in this case the condition became a vehicle for the destruction of an innocent young life.

she looks like a right chav ....................
The rapturous, wild & ineffable pleasure of drinking at someone else's expense

Magnetic North

  • Guest
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 02:57:26 PM »
Some people might advocate a hysterectomy for her as one precautionary measure, but God only knows how her already questionable temperament would react to her child-bearing gadgets being removed.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 04:40:49 PM »
I agree with the worry of her being allowed kids again, but what can you do?  I'd like to think she doesn't even want another.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline GeordieMessiah

  • Forum Colossus
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 05:49:56 PM »
Well obviously having now had time to mull it over, I think her punishment should have been to be tied to a sofa by a bunch of toddlers and then they could have set it alight. See how she liked that...
Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name
And the corporate snakes coming in to feed
On that pathetic fact known as human greed
Skin and bone being raked over those hot coals
This dump never seems to give time for human soul

Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 05:52:24 PM »
Well obviously having now had time to mull it over, I think her punishment should have been to be tied to a sofa by a bunch of toddlers and then they could have set it alight. See how she liked that...

Clearly sitting on the fence waiting to see what your superiors thought about it.

Offline GeordieMessiah

  • Forum Colossus
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 05:59:58 PM »
Well obviously having now had time to mull it over, I think her punishment should have been to be tied to a sofa by a bunch of toddlers and then they could have set it alight. See how she liked that...

Clearly sitting on the fence waiting to see what your superiors thought about it.

My superiors? There's no such thing. bluebigrazz.gif
Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name
And the corporate snakes coming in to feed
On that pathetic fact known as human greed
Skin and bone being raked over those hot coals
This dump never seems to give time for human soul

Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 06:01:37 PM »
HTL.

Offline GeordieMessiah

  • Forum Colossus
  • General Member
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 06:02:41 PM »
Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name
And the corporate snakes coming in to feed
On that pathetic fact known as human greed
Skin and bone being raked over those hot coals
This dump never seems to give time for human soul

Offline Dave

  • Administrator
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 06:05:06 PM »
;)

Magnetic North

  • Guest
Re: Is community service enough?
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 24 October 2006, 07:35:03 PM »
I forgot to answer Dave's initial question. No, community service isn't enough. GeordieMessiah's idea is good to go!