Author Topic: SJP development plans that never happened/future development debate  (Read 70432 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:39:02 PM »
From this



To this



Who would have thought?

Why not from that to this?



a) The Metro
b) Housing
c) Money

Didn't prevent previous expansions.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline ianovthetoon

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:39:35 PM »
I remember reading something in the Journal about a year ago saying that consultation work was being done on the feasibility of extending the Gallowgate and building the stand over the road to the same height as level 7, just means the east stand would look totally dwarfed, either that or Freddys getting the A Team in to blow the houses up facing it so we can extend that as well tongue.gif tongue.gif

Offline Optimistic Nut

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:40:42 PM »
From this



To this



Who would have thought?

Why not from that to this?



a) The Metro
b) Housing
c) Money

Didn't prevent previous expansions.

Because previous expansions never affected the Metro or the housing. If we'd moved stadium late 90s when we made the proposals to move to Leazes Park, that would have been it. One off payment for the stadium (at a time we could afford it), with no need to ever extend.
?s=21

Offline Nobody

  • General Member
  • That chick was like the Pele of anal
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:42:22 PM »
Believe it or not, we'd still have these photos and memories if we stay at St James' or not. ;)



But would we be able to marvel at SJP from within knowing that this monument before our eyes has risen from wood, smell that sense of history, hear the ghosts of teams, players and feats past?

When I'm at SJP today I get an overriding sense of history and tradition, I can feel it, on some nights, always nights, I swear you can feel something in the air, a presence or something.

Ever walked down Barrack road in the wee hours of a winter's morning with mist, drizzle and fog clinging to the air? You can hear the crowd of eras gone by and that smell, I just can't describe.

Nah, you can keep your purpose built plastic boxes with no sense of feeling and atmopshere.

I'll take wor stadium any day, regardless of capacity or disrepair.
Agreed! SJP is magnificent and a part of the clubs history! Would be a real shame to move away.

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:43:34 PM »
Last year, FS said the club were looking into expanding the Gallowgate, out of the blue as well. I think the quotes originally come from a speech he gave at some function and was first printed in a magazine, eventually winding up in the papers as second hand copy a few weeks later on what must have been a slow news day.

They are on this site somewhere.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline johnnypd

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:44:21 PM »
a horseshoe shape stadium would look excellent, an english take on the old american baseball + am football arenas. ohio state uni have a famous stadium with three huge sides and one tiny :

Offline Optimistic Nut

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:44:52 PM »
Believe it or not, we'd still have these photos and memories if we stay at St James' or not. ;)



But would we be able to marvel at SJP from within knowing that this monument before our eyes has risen from wood, smell that sense of history, hear the ghosts of teams, players and feats past?

When I'm at SJP today I get an overriding sense of history and tradition, I can feel it, on some nights, always nights, I swear you can feel something in the air, a presence or something.

Ever walked down Barrack road in the wee hours of a winter's morning with mist, drizzle and fog clinging to the air? You can hear the crowd of eras gone by and that smell, I just can't describe.

Nah, you can keep your purpose built plastic boxes with no sense of feeling and atmopshere.

I'll take wor stadium any day, regardless of capacity or disrepair.
Agreed! SJP is magnificent and a part of the clubs history! Would be a real shame to move away.

Yes...history. Imagine our chances of success in the future that we'd have had with an extra 15,000+ a season...you're talking an extra £8-10m a year.
?s=21

Offline Ally

  • General Member
  • Retired admin
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:45:11 PM »
Makes the East Stand look like a bus shelter!

sunderlandsuck

  • Guest
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:45:33 PM »
did they not plan to do what they did to the milburn and leezes to the east stand and the gallowgate when they expanded it to 52,000? and also planned to built a btadium on the town moor?

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:45:46 PM »
If push came to shove, I'd hope they could just fill the Metro station in, it's no use anyway. The housing behind the East Stand would be more of a problem.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline Nobody

  • General Member
  • That chick was like the Pele of anal
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:47:42 PM »
a horseshoe shape stadium would look excellent, an english take on the old american baseball + am football arenas. ohio state uni have a famous stadium with three huge sides and one tiny :

That looks mint!

Offline Yorkie

  • General Member
  • C'mTA
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:49:05 PM »
The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

Offline johnnypd

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:50:53 PM »
there were also preliminary plans drawn up to move to the Gateshead Stadium site or next to it, and Newburn Riverside (there's a business park there now). both terrible ideas.

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:52:45 PM »
From this



To this



Who would have thought?

Why not from that to this?



a) The Metro
b) Housing
c) Money

Didn't prevent previous expansions.

Because previous expansions never affected the Metro or the housing. If we'd moved stadium late 90s when we made the proposals to move to Leazes Park, that would have been it. One off payment for the stadium (at a time we could afford it), with no need to ever extend.

They did, the expansion impacted all four areas of land around the circumference of SJP. Maybe not to the extent further development would demand, but the only  real conceivable objection to further expansion would be money.

The Gallowgate could be raised to level 7, the bulk or mass of the Leazes could be replicated at that end without collapsing the Metro, although the road behind it would have to go, or maybe built over and incorporated in some kind of tunel or drive through.

The East Stand is a different kettle of fish altogether as the margin for expansion is very restriced. Now that is a toughy.

We'd have to look at other stadiums that incorporate housing or streets.

Where's Sparks when we need him ;)
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:56:19 PM »
did they not plan to do what they did to the milburn and leezes to the east stand and the gallowgate when they expanded it to 52,000? and also planned to built a btadium on the town moor?

I recall a poster making the point that planning permission was granted for eventual capacity raises on the three sides but developed two. I'd have thought there would be some form of expiry on that, though. The plans would be publicly available as with any such application.

Metro- an excuse dreamed up by Freddie Fletcher towards the end of his reign. It's really not an issue for an imaginsative engineer. Just remember what's sitting on top of the metro line as it runs from haymarket-monument-central!

Leazes Terrace on the other hand is a major issue. Not an insummountable one, but an expensive one for sure. We can't just do away with it and a L7-size East Stand would run right down the middle of the existing block. The best the club could hope to do is free up enough land to move the entire building brick by brick, preserving the aspects protected by the listing (and you just have to hope that doesn't include the foundations or internal layouts!) Facades have been protected with entirely new buildings built behind it (such as the edge of Monument Mall IIRC?).

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:57:00 PM »
The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

Because they knew what kind of negative impact it would have on the city center economy.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline johnnypd

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:00:36 PM »
there was never a planning application made for the Gallowgate when we expanded the Milburn and Leazes. i did read that the architects drew up plans in reserve tho. it is definitely possible to extend that stand, the only problem i can think is viability, the other extensions were paid for in part by executive seats, and i can't see that there's much room to increase the number of posh seats.

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:05:25 PM »
Looking at the East Stand, one of the options could be to cut out the front paddocks of all four stands, raise the pitch and pull in the East Stand to provide extra space at the back of that stand to pad it out and upwards. It is doable.

So is moving Leazes Terrarce a few feet foward, they did that kind of thing in Boston was it? It might have been Brooklyn.

Believe it or not, they can move whole houses forward without knocking a brik down, each house sits on a structure that rests on the earth if you like, careful management can move that structure onto a new prepared foundation.

That would be very very expensive however and not feasable funds wise I'd imagine.

Another option could be to build Leazes Terrarce into the East Stand, with the Terrace becoming the frontal facia of that stand like Shearer's Bar is the facia of the Gallowgate - the entrance if you like. The club could buy the Terrace and incoporate them into the stand.

Any other ideas?
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline ianovthetoon

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:08:30 PM »
I suppose its not unreasonable to simply build up, a structure of 2 or 3 extra smaller tiers, a totally different design to the cantilever more like a tower block kind of structure, at least the roof would be the same height all the way round!!

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:11:04 PM »
I suppose its not unreasonable to simply build up, a structure of 2 or 3 extra smaller tiers, a totally different design to the cantilever more like a tower block kind of structure, at least the roof would be the same height all the way round!!

Aye, it doesn't have to be symetrical. In fact if each stand looked different, I think that would add even more to the design. I know SJP at current gets called ugly but I think the lopsidedness gives it character and presence.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline NE5

  • General Member
  • In Zumba Bumba Land
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:30:00 PM »
Looking at the East Stand, one of the options could be to cut out the front paddocks of all four stands, raise the pitch and pull in the East Stand to provide extra space at the back of that stand to pad it out and upwards. It is doable.

So is moving Leazes Terrarce a few feet foward, they did that kind of thing in Boston was it? It might have been Brooklyn.

Believe it or not, they can move whole houses forward without knocking a brik down, each house sits on a structure that rests on the earth if you like, careful management can move that structure onto a new prepared foundation.

That would be very very expensive however and not feasable funds wise I'd imagine.

Another option could be to build Leazes Terrarce into the East Stand, with the Terrace becoming the frontal facia of that stand like Shearer's Bar is the facia of the Gallowgate - the entrance if you like. The club could buy the Terrace and incoporate them into the stand.

Any other ideas?

pay some shady character to blow it up, like they should have done decades ago

http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?

"He wants what we want and goes to the games for the same reason as we do, he wants us to win for the pleasure that brings.  He wants to build the club up and put everything in place to make sure we can maintain a high position once we reach it." - mick [aka Stephensons Rocket], aug 10th 2008

"I think Keegan would be a daft option, he's been here and done the best he could." - mick, 6th March 2006

"Ashley will do something Shepherd has never ever done, he'll spend HIS own personal money on players as the club will be his." - mick 7th June 2007

I think we've done well in the last window - mick, 23 Oct 2008

any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006

Offline NE5

  • General Member
  • In Zumba Bumba Land
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:34:08 PM »
Believe it or not, we'd still have these photos and memories if we stay at St James' or not. ;)



But would we be able to marvel at SJP from within knowing that this monument before our eyes has risen from wood, smell that sense of history, hear the ghosts of teams, players and feats past?

When I'm at SJP today I get an overriding sense of history and tradition, I can feel it, on some nights, always nights, I swear you can feel something in the air, a presence or something.

Ever walked down Barrack road in the wee hours of a winter's morning with mist, drizzle and fog clinging to the air? You can hear the crowd of eras gone by and that smell, I just can't describe.

Nah, you can keep your purpose built plastic boxes with no sense of feeling and atmopshere.

I'll take wor stadium any day, regardless of capacity or disrepair.
Agreed! SJP is magnificent and a part of the clubs history! Would be a real shame to move away.

Yes...history. Imagine our chances of success in the future that we'd have had with an extra 15,000+ a season...you're talking an extra £8-10m a year.

much more than that is the "capture" of more supporters who may be inclined to move elsewhere rather than possibly be outcast.
Plus the spin offs. Sorry to disagree with people, but I think putting tradition before ambition and progress is extremely small minded and unambitious.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?

"He wants what we want and goes to the games for the same reason as we do, he wants us to win for the pleasure that brings.  He wants to build the club up and put everything in place to make sure we can maintain a high position once we reach it." - mick [aka Stephensons Rocket], aug 10th 2008

"I think Keegan would be a daft option, he's been here and done the best he could." - mick, 6th March 2006

"Ashley will do something Shepherd has never ever done, he'll spend HIS own personal money on players as the club will be his." - mick 7th June 2007

I think we've done well in the last window - mick, 23 Oct 2008

any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:36:33 PM »
Believe it or not, they can move whole houses forward without knocking a brik down, each house sits on a structure that rests on the earth if you like, careful management can move that structure onto a new prepared foundation.

That would be very very expensive however and not feasable funds wise I'd imagine.

Another option could be to build Leazes Terrarce into the East Stand, with the Terrace becoming the frontal facia of that stand like Shearer's Bar is the facia of the Gallowgate - the entrance if you like. The club could buy the Terrace and incoporate them into the stand.

There are companies that specialise in moving buildings brick by brick. A few buildings were moved to Beamish in this way.

As for incorporating it, I don't see how it would fit in.

Offline Yorkie

  • General Member
  • C'mTA
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #48 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:37:59 PM »
The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

Because they knew what kind of negative impact it would have on the city center economy.

Just wanted to come back to this.

Now i'm sure you know more about this than i do; after all - i haven't lived in Newcastle for any more than a month in any single period. But i would be willing to bet that Newcastle United FC is the city's biggest seller.

The major bulk of people who come to watch games are local - but i've got a friend just down the road from me who's got a season ticket. And i/they live a good two hours or so from Newcastle. I predict about 10% of the home support is coming from somewhere else in the country. And, when you consider the away support - 2/3000 every game - that's more people coming into the area.

More people coming into the area, eating in 'our' restaurants, buying our souvenirs, staying in our hotels, travelling on 'our' Metro. Lots and lots of money coming into the area - and i can't see how that can be bad for the economy. Increase the capacity of Newcastle's stadium by 35,000 (that's how big the extension would have been in 1997), and that's more money into the area.

Like i say, you probably know more than it about it than i do, and i'm only looking from it from one (uneducated) point of view.

smoggeordie

  • Guest
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 11:40:14 PM »
Wasn't there a problem with the foundations in the gallowgate? Like we can't extend it because the ground around the end isn't strong enough?



As for incorporating it, I don't see how it would fit in.

for some reason I just though of one gadgie moving EVERY single brick in SJP over the summer and when everyone came back for the new season they were shellshocked :lol: