Topic: Hall to sell shares?

[NE5]

what are you babbling on about ? Why do you think they should put the club before their own personal interest ?

Actually, if a bid was made, and this doesn't happen, will you applaud the fact that they have put the club before their personal interest ? Somehow, I doubt it.

I am aware of the pitfalls, how well they have done, and where our current standing is, you're the one who wants them out because you think they are s***, and infer almost anyone would be better.

Why do I think they should put the club before their own aims?

It's easy really, that's what they said they got involved in the club for, they claim they are supporters and they are the ones who have taken vast sums out of the club while claiming only to be fans.

They have set themselves up as something they don't appear to be, if they get stick for that then they're reaping what they've sown.  Are you blind and deaf to what they say and do?

If this bid is turned down then I'll think that they weren't offered enough money and they'd rather stay and take money out annually through dividends and salaries which have rocketed while the club has gone backwards.  I don't think the good of the club enters into it, I think the good of the bank accounts of those in charge comes first and always will.

I want them out because they've turned this club into a laughing stock and they're taking the club backwards, I don't think just anybody coming in would improve things and I'm sure you'll now back up what you've said with a link, I'll not be holding my breath.

If they sell up to this group of people, who is to blame if it goes tits up?

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

It does appear, indeed, that is what he - and others - want.

[Mick]

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

I couldn't care less that they get paid, what I do care about is that we don't get value for money.

What did Douglas Hall do last year for his pay?

How long did douglas Hall actually spend in this country so that he could earn that money?

What did Shepherd Manpower Limited do last year that justified them being paid over £300,000?

What does Alison Hall and Bruce Shepherd do for the salaries they earn, a combined sum of £70,000?

Are you happy that these large sums of money leave the club?

People always get paid for working and that's only right, they should earn it first.

[NE5]

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

I couldn't care less that they get paid, what I do care about is that we don't get value for money.

What did Douglas Hall do last year for his pay?

How long did douglas Hall actually spend in this country so that he could earn that money?

What did Shepherd Manpower Limited do last year that justified them being paid over £300,000?

What does Alison Hall and Bruce Shepherd do for the salaries they earn, a combined sum of £70,000?

Are you happy that these large sums of money leave the club?

People always get paid for working and that's only right, they should earn it first.

Incredible post from someone who says the supported the club in the 70's and 80's.

What have we had for our money. Well, European football on a regular basis including Champions League qualifications, major England players and other internationals, major top name managers, a superb stadium, 2 FA Cup Finals.

How many other clubs have had this ? Only 4 that I can think of.

What exactly, do you think 370,000 quid is going to bring to the football team ?

[Baggio]

what are you babbling on about ? Why do you think they should put the club before their own personal interest ?

Actually, if a bid was made, and this doesn't happen, will you applaud the fact that they have put the club before their personal interest ? Somehow, I doubt it.

I am aware of the pitfalls, how well they have done, and where our current standing is, you're the one who wants them out because you think they are s***, and infer almost anyone would be better.

Why do I think they should put the club before their own aims?

It's easy really, that's what they said they got involved in the club for, they claim they are supporters and they are the ones who have taken vast sums out of the club while claiming only to be fans.

They have set themselves up as something they don't appear to be, if they get stick for that then they're reaping what they've sown.  Are you blind and deaf to what they say and do?

If this bid is turned down then I'll think that they weren't offered enough money and they'd rather stay and take money out annually through dividends and salaries which have rocketed while the club has gone backwards.  I don't think the good of the club enters into it, I think the good of the bank accounts of those in charge comes first and always will.

I want them out because they've turned this club into a laughing stock and they're taking the club backwards, I don't think just anybody coming in would improve things and I'm sure you'll now back up what you've said with a link, I'll not be holding my breath.

If they sell up to this group of people, who is to blame if it goes tits up?

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

It does appear, indeed, that is what he - and others - want.

I don't think anyone expects Shepherd to work for the club on a voluntary basis, it's more the fact that we pay dividends to shareholders when the money could be put back into the team...

[Mick]

You have lost the plot Mick. You can't expect them to work for nothing. The club has gone forwards, very much so, since 1992. We are the 5th best club in the country in the last decade. You can't call that "going backwards" unless you think every club has a divine right to stay 2nd in the league. This is deluded, and I have pointed out many clubs in the past who also have fell from far greater heights. This is the reality of football. From a business perspective, building a new training complex and expanding the stadium, is very much a major development that has moved the club forward.

The very fact that you expect so much from the club, shows they have succeeded massively in raising expectations. Not understanding this, is the sort of comment that leads me to think you didn't support the club in the 70's and 80's like you say you did.

People are in anything for money. Welcome to the real world. If they sell up, why would you blame them ? I could say - blame people like yourself who give them flak and those who booed at the testimonial. This offer, rumour, or whatever it is, is a wake up call to those who think that we will automatically replace them with someone better.

You post that lot and claim that I've lost the plot         

Where have I ever said people should work for nothing?

I see you use the usual put down, it's worn thin now.

People aren't in everything for money, do you think Steve Gibson is trying to milk Boro?

I was expecting you to look to put any blame away from Shepherd, you really are a sheep. bluebiggrin.gif

[Mick]

It does appear, indeed, that is what he - and others - want.

How unusual for you to see something that isn't actually in a post, well done.

[NE5]

You have lost the plot Mick. You can't expect them to work for nothing. The club has gone forwards, very much so, since 1992. We are the 5th best club in the country in the last decade. You can't call that "going backwards" unless you think every club has a divine right to stay 2nd in the league. This is deluded, and I have pointed out many clubs in the past who also have fell from far greater heights. This is the reality of football. From a business perspective, building a new training complex and expanding the stadium, is very much a major development that has moved the club forward.

The very fact that you expect so much from the club, shows they have succeeded massively in raising expectations. Not understanding this, is the sort of comment that leads me to think you didn't support the club in the 70's and 80's like you say you did.

People are in anything for money. Welcome to the real world. If they sell up, why would you blame them ? I could say - blame people like yourself who give them flak and those who booed at the testimonial. This offer, rumour, or whatever it is, is a wake up call to those who think that we will automatically replace them with someone better.

You post that lot and claim that I've lost the plot         

Where have I ever said people should work for nothing?

I see you use the usual put down, it's worn thin now.

People aren't in everything for money, do you think Steve Gibson is trying to milk Boro?

I was expecting you to look to put any blame away from Shepherd, you really are a sheep. bluebiggrin.gif

You say I'm a sheep      !!!!

What I say is FACT. But don't let it get in the way of your "opinion".

You didn't really support the club pre-Shepherd and Hall, did you ?

[Mick]

Incredible post from someone who says the supported the club in the 70's and 80's.

What have we had for our money. Well, European football on a regular basis including Champions League qualifications, major England players and other internationals, major top name managers, a superb stadium, 2 FA Cup Finals.

How many other clubs have had this ? Only 4 that I can think of.

What exactly, do you think 370,000 quid is going to bring to the football team ?

That's a pathetic response, what has Bruce Shepherd and Alison Hall done at the club?

Is Bruce getting paid to watch the games because that's all I've seen him do and can't ever remember him being credited with anything.  I can't even remember Alison attending a game so she must get paid for working from home.

[NE5]

Incredible post from someone who says the supported the club in the 70's and 80's.

What have we had for our money. Well, European football on a regular basis including Champions League qualifications, major England players and other internationals, major top name managers, a superb stadium, 2 FA Cup Finals.

How many other clubs have had this ? Only 4 that I can think of.

What exactly, do you think 370,000 quid is going to bring to the football team ?

That's a pathetic response, what has Bruce Shepherd and Alison Hall done at the club?

Is Bruce getting paid to watch the games because that's all I've seen him do and can't ever remember him being credited with anything.  I can't even remember Alison attending a game so she must get paid for working from home.

It is not, you are asking "are we happy at this money being lost to the club". Its peanuts.

[macbeth]

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

I know Mick kcan speak for himself but I may well get lumped in with his views so I'll comment  :winking:

I have absolutely no problem with people being paid for a job of work. That covers the turnstile operators, the players, the manager or the directors. If they do a good job for the club they deserve the salaries they get.

In the cas eof the directors this is currently £500,000 per year for Shepherd, and £450,000 per year for Douglas Hall. Last year the club had 8 board meetings and Douglas  all managed to make 6 of them, all other directors attended them all.

Mick (I think) and I have a problem with dividends. Dividends are paid to everyone who owns shares. So I get money for owning 350 shares. If you owned shares you would get money too. I see no benefit at all to NUFC in them giving me £7 as a dividend each year. As a shareholder I would much prefer my £7 to have been kept and used by the club in some way to make the club better. My £7 could be viewed as being negligible, and irrelevant, but over the last 8 years that has come to about £40 the club have just given away to me, and I have done nothing in return to merit that. Clearly a waste of the club's money.

[Mick]

Incredible post from someone who says the supported the club in the 70's and 80's.

What have we had for our money. Well, European football on a regular basis including Champions League qualifications, major England players and other internationals, major top name managers, a superb stadium, 2 FA Cup Finals.

How many other clubs have had this ? Only 4 that I can think of.

What exactly, do you think 370,000 quid is going to bring to the football team ?

That's a pathetic response, what has Bruce Shepherd and Alison Hall done at the club?

Is Bruce getting paid to watch the games because that's all I've seen him do and can't ever remember him being credited with anything.  I can't even remember Alison attending a game so she must get paid for working from home.

It is not, you are asking "are we happy at this money being lost to the club". Its peanuts.

It's not peanuts, Douglas Hall is on something like £450,000.  Add that to the money already mentioned and we've got close to £1 million leaving the club for nothing, every year.

[NE5]

Incredible post from someone who says the supported the club in the 70's and 80's.

What have we had for our money. Well, European football on a regular basis including Champions League qualifications, major England players and other internationals, major top name managers, a superb stadium, 2 FA Cup Finals.

How many other clubs have had this ? Only 4 that I can think of.

What exactly, do you think 370,000 quid is going to bring to the football team ?

That's a pathetic response, what has Bruce Shepherd and Alison Hall done at the club?

Is Bruce getting paid to watch the games because that's all I've seen him do and can't ever remember him being credited with anything.  I can't even remember Alison attending a game so she must get paid for working from home.

It is not, you are asking "are we happy at this money being lost to the club". Its peanuts.

It's not peanuts, Douglas Hall is on something like £450,000.  Add that to the money already mentioned and we've got close to £1 million leaving the club for nothing, every year.

And 1m a year will buy us who exactly ?

Accept the fact they should get paid for a moment, and they were paid half what they do. That means only half a million is "lost" to the club a year. What does half a million buy a premiership club. Precious little I'm afraid. If speculating to accumulate is the name of the game, you can settle for the directors we used to have that didn't speculate if that is what you prefer.

With the team up and down, and a half full ground like the mackems. You don't really identify with those times do you Mick ?

[NE5]

Seems to me Mick you aint happy because they get paid, Do you think if the club gets sold that the buyer wont take money out?

I know Mick kcan speak for himself but I may well get lumped in with his views so I'll comment  :winking:

I have absolutely no problem with people being paid for a job of work. That covers the turnstile operators, the players, the manager or the directors. If they do a good job for the club they deserve the salaries they get.

In the cas eof the directors this is currently £500,000 per year for Shepherd, and £450,000 per year for Douglas Hall. Last year the club had 8 board meetings and Douglas  all managed to make 6 of them, all other directors attended them all.

Mick (I think) and I have a problem with dividends. Dividends are paid to everyone who owns shares. So I get money for owning 350 shares. If you owned shares you would get money too. I see no benefit at all to NUFC in them giving me £7 as a dividend each year. As a shareholder I would much prefer my £7 to have been kept and used by the club in some way to make the club better. My £7 could be viewed as being negligible, and irrelevant, but over the last 8 years that has come to about £40 the club have just given away to me, and I have done nothing in return to merit that. Clearly a waste of the club's money.

did you attempt to buy shares originally, when the flotation failed ?

[bobjonson]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

[Dunedin]

This whole scenario gives me a feeling of dread. I can see no reason for a hedge fund to purchase NUFC other than short termism and quick profit, neither would benefit the club and supporters. Maybe this is why there have been no players purchased yet

[macbeth]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.


I'm interested what things are these ?

Shepherd's other company had Shepherd Offshore had sales of under £3m in 2004 and then again 2005. They made a profit of under £100,000 in each of those two years.

Cameron Hall had sales of £9m in total for the in the last two years they managed to file accounts, 2002 and 2003. Cameron Hall made a loss of over £1m in that period.

The Hall's income from owning NUFC in that period came to £7.6m, and he was paid a further £900l on top of that.
Shepherd had dividneds of £1.9m and slaarey of over £1m.

[bobjonson]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.


I'm interested what things are these ?

Shepherd's other company had Shepherd Offshore had sales of under £3m in 2004 and then again 2005. They made a profit of under £100,000 in each of those two years.

Cameron Hall had sales of £9m in total for the in the last two years they managed to file accounts, 2002 and 2003. Cameron Hall made a loss of over £1m in that period.

The Hall's income from owning NUFC in that period came to £7.6m, and he was paid a further £900l on top of that.
Shepherd had dividneds of £1.9m and slaarey of over £1m.

no mention of the wynyard project then?

or shep scrap metal?

know your stuff do you

[NE5]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind knowing if Mick is aware of this. If he was a fan at the time, he most certainly would have been.

[NE5]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.


I'm interested what things are these ?

Shepherd's other company had Shepherd Offshore had sales of under £3m in 2004 and then again 2005. They made a profit of under £100,000 in each of those two years.

Cameron Hall had sales of £9m in total for the in the last two years they managed to file accounts, 2002 and 2003. Cameron Hall made a loss of over £1m in that period.

The Hall's income from owning NUFC in that period came to £7.6m, and he was paid a further £900l on top of that.
Shepherd had dividneds of £1.9m and slaarey of over £1m.

you might get your wish macbeth. They may sell out to this company. Then you'll be happy I take it ?

[indi]

Sorry, yes, I forgot to mention that one ! The problem with that scenario is the belief that there would be a second buyer waliting in the wings when we haven't seen one yet. It would make sense if the team could get into the CL, and gain a bigger brand image. Apart from that I'm not sure what other tarting up could be done.

Hedge funds typically make their money from having better information than the rest of the market and thereby making "better" decisions. Because they are smaller than the big city-investors - banks, insurance and pension companies, etc - they are able to focus on sections of the market from which they think a good profit can be made. If they're looking to invest in NUFC then they will have given it serious amounts of thought and must have concluded that they can make money. As you seem to agree, I don't think there's too much scope for them to squeeze more money from trading - tickets, merchandise, etc - in the short-term. There definately is in the long-term, although this will take considerable investment and implementation of an appropriate strategy, not the kind of stuff hedge funds normally get involved in. This is what leads me to believe that they think they'll be able to make some quick money from: coming in, getting the club heading in the right direction, and then selling it on to someone else. I obviously don't know if they have someone lined up, but I don't see them being in for the long haul, so I'm assuming that they believe they'd have interest when they came to sell.

Really depends on the Halls personal financial situation. The Cameron Hall accounts were in a right mess which was why they had to sell the shares back to the club in 2003. There was an allegation going around that the reported approach to Sir John last summer was done to boost the share price at a time when the NUFC shares were the only asset owned by Cameron Hall. Cameron Hall has made financial commitments against their assets and were going to default a the value of the assets were low. Boosting the share price made their assets cover their commitments and bought them more time. If there is still a financial problem they may well sell the shares at a discount to just shift them, and pay off debts. The shares are in the Cameron Hall books as having cost just under 11p each, so even selling for around the current market price would give a 300% return  :winking:   53m shares would give about a further £18m profit.

The thing is though, it doesn't really matter how desperate the Halls are to get rid of the shares, if the hedge fund don't see a profit to be made they won't buy them, even if they give them away. The only way they'd make a profit is if they can sell them on to someone else, so if they don't think there'll be any buyers, they won't invest. The last thing they'd want to happen is to be left owning a football club they couldn't make any money out of.

I think they'd come in, install a new management - business-wise, not neccesarily team-wise - show the city the club was going to be run using sound business principles, wait for the share price to rise, then sell-up and move on. Whether or not this is good for the club is debatable, but it's important to remember they wouldn't make much money out of a failing football club.

[bobjonson]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind knowing if Mick is aware of this. If he was a fan at the time, he most certainly would have been.

although I never did, a mate of mine (sheff utd fan?) did send his cheque of for 3k, it was returned a few months down the line with a thank you letter saying due to lack of investment etc!!

SJH etc originally didnt want to OWN the club, but wanted to get rid of the slime that did at the time. imo anyway.

[Mick]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind knowing if Mick is aware of this. If he was a fan at the time, he most certainly would have been.

I did know of this and I was one of the 50% or so who were required to make a pledge who actually did it, were you?

[Dragon55544]

Anyone remember when there was speculation Mgm Mirage were gonna buy Newcastle and build a Casino on the side and turn Newcastle into a mini Las Vagas? Maybe they have something to do with it, Newcastle are the shortlist and IMO will get the go ahead for the Super-Casino.

[bobjonson]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind knowing if Mick is aware of this. If he was a fan at the time, he most certainly would have been.

I did know of this and I was one of the 50% or so who were required to make a pledge who actually did it, were you?

so you actually sent a cheque off?

well done

[NE5]

couple of things to add.

years ago (early 90's) we tried to get  "the fans" to buy into the club originally, there was a share bond thingy and iirc was 1k at a time and they ended up with a very poor response, so it was shelved.  Few months later SJH took over.

SJH and shep have other things on the go and tbh nufc money is small fry compared to what their other investments bring in.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind knowing if Mick is aware of this. If he was a fan at the time, he most certainly would have been.

I did know of this and I was one of the 50% or so who were required to make a pledge who actually did it, were you?

Did you ? Perhaps you can tell us what the minimum investment was then ? And it wasn't the 3k that bob says.

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?