Author Topic: COVID-19  (Read 171835 times)

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Offline St. Maximin

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4525 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 11:45:35 AM »
I’m surprised at the amount of collective Stockholm syndrome that seems to have taken place on social media because Boris has set out a roadmap to lift restrictions he’s imposed. Everyone seems happy to forgot how woeful this government have been because the carrot of being allowed out has been dangled.

Can’t blame people for having hope
The hope makes things so much easier to handle. Even if things don't work out as hoped...

I certainly haven't forgotten how the government have been terrible, but credit where it's due. This doesn't justify their actions throughout 2020 but they don't mean they can't be praised also when they do get things right.

Online neesy111

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4526 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 11:46:07 AM »
I know plenty who have defended him throughout the Pandemic.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4527 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 11:51:00 AM »
I know plenty who have defended him throughout the Pandemic.

I want to spend 24 hours in the life and social media profiles of these people to see how this s*** happens.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4528 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 11:57:40 AM »
I know plenty who have defended him throughout the Pandemic.
Mainly those that voted for him and can't face admitting they were wrong.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4529 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 11:59:38 AM »
I think I mentioned earlier in the year, but the main issue within schools is that a low percentage of staff absence renders the school unworkable. They have now changed the guidance that the LFTs won't be used to keep close contact students and staff in school so they still have to isolate for 10 days. So, we're back to how it was (albeit with a few vulnerable staff vaccinated) before this lockdown with a more contagious variant and more testing which will pick up more cases. If teachers don't get bumped up the list, they will still keep getting sent home and schools will be sending kids home. I'm personally in no rush to jump the queue myself, but I can't see any other solution?

This seems to have been largely absent from the discussion. Unless case levels remain low, you will see classes / yeargroup bubbles sent home and made to isolate. Parents have not been properly informed through this roadmap that their children may be sent home and made to stay home at very short notice and with no obvious means of relief care.

Deeply foolish not to vaccinate all school staff in the first batch and it may well come back to bite government on the arse.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • Newcastle
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4530 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:00:38 PM »
Think I'll be taking it easy from doing owt in a packed indoor venue until I've had my first jab like. Looking forward to leaving the confines of the NE1-7 postcodes as much as anything.

Online Hhtoon

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4531 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:02:11 PM »
If they're going to reopen schools in a fortnight, I really don't know why they've not set aside one or two days and just vaccinated as many school staff as possible. At the rate they've been going they could have done first doses for the lot in a couple of days.

It would make absolute sense. Can only assume it's a logistical issue with linking people to the profession?

Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4532 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:03:02 PM »
I think I mentioned earlier in the year, but the main issue within schools is that a low percentage of staff absence renders the school unworkable. They have now changed the guidance that the LFTs won't be used to keep close contact students and staff in school so they still have to isolate for 10 days. So, we're back to how it was (albeit with a few vulnerable staff vaccinated) before this lockdown with a more contagious variant and more testing which will pick up more cases. If teachers don't get bumped up the list, they will still keep getting sent home and schools will be sending kids home. I'm personally in no rush to jump the queue myself, but I can't see any other solution?

This seems to have been largely absent from the discussion. Unless case levels remain low, you will see classes / yeargroup bubbles sent home and made to isolate. Parents have not been properly informed through this roadmap that their children may be sent home and made to stay home at very short notice and with no obvious means of relief care.

Deeply foolish not to vaccinate all school staff in the first batch and it may well come back to bite government on the arse.
This was ad hoc school to school. Family friend's son was sent home twice as someone in one of his classes tested positive. Whereas my daughter wasn't sent home despite two positive tests in her form class. She wasn't close enough apparently despite being g in the same room.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline Slim

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4533 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:16:19 PM »
Just seen flight from AMS to Hawaii for £250 quid in December....humm do I roll the dice

Online neesy111

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4534 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:21:55 PM »
Think I'll be taking it easy from doing owt in a packed indoor venue until I've had my first jab like. Looking forward to leaving the confines of the NE1-7 postcodes as much as anything.
Same.  Beer garden at most for me in terms of socialising.

Offline midds

  • Administrator
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4535 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:30:39 PM »
I think I mentioned earlier in the year, but the main issue within schools is that a low percentage of staff absence renders the school unworkable. They have now changed the guidance that the LFTs won't be used to keep close contact students and staff in school so they still have to isolate for 10 days. So, we're back to how it was (albeit with a few vulnerable staff vaccinated) before this lockdown with a more contagious variant and more testing which will pick up more cases. If teachers don't get bumped up the list, they will still keep getting sent home and schools will be sending kids home. I'm personally in no rush to jump the queue myself, but I can't see any other solution?

This seems to have been largely absent from the discussion. Unless case levels remain low, you will see classes / yeargroup bubbles sent home and made to isolate. Parents have not been properly informed through this roadmap that their children may be sent home and made to stay home at very short notice and with no obvious means of relief care.

Deeply foolish not to vaccinate all school staff in the first batch and it may well come back to bite government on the arse.
This was ad hoc school to school. Family friend's son was sent home twice as someone in one of his classes tested positive. Whereas my daughter wasn't sent home despite two positive tests in her form class. She wasn't close enough apparently despite being g in the same room.

Happened loads during the Autumn. We had to submit seating plans for each class so if there was a kid who tested positive they could go back and see who they had been 'close' to. No idea how close you had to be but it looked like within a couple of metres in a classroom setting. Problem was the positive case sits next to different people in different lessons so 1 kid could, potentially, mean sending 40+ kids home to isolate. Sheer pot luck tbh.

Offline Jackie Broon

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4536 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:35:29 PM »
So we're essentially going back to the level of restrictions that didn't work to contain the Kent strain before this lockdown but we're still at 10k positive tests per day and now the Kent strain is the dominant strain everywhere and we'll have 25% of the population walking around with partial immunity thinking they're invincible. What could possibly go wrong?



33% of adults already vaccinated, the groups responsible for 90% of deaths have all been vaccinated, that will increase by the time the Schools go back and even further again by the time the next set of restrictions are lifted. The objective was always stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed which should be the case moving forwards.

Setting the objective as being the NHS not being overwhelmed has resulted in 120,000 deaths. It is a lagging indicator, if the NHS is anywhere near being overwhelmed we're already at the point where we have 2 months+ of 500+ deaths per day, 15,000+ deaths per month, and countless other people being left with long term heath conditions. The objective should have and should be to get a keep case levels down to a level that can be controlled by testing and tracing. Each time we have left our lockdowns far too late and come out of them too soon, and we've clearly haven't learnt any lessons from that either in the government, scientific community or population.
We have had three technical lockdowns and I agree we've locked down too late each time. Saying that we've had fairly tight restrictions since September in many areas of the country before this lockdown came into place and I don't see this as being too soon at present. By the time we can merely do things like meet in groups of six outside, the lockdown will have gone on nearly three months (longer for those in tier four), which is longer than we had last year. We have an excellent vaccine programme with studies producing more positive results, plus better understanding of how to treat covid, so this isn't the same. It's been an awful winter and people just need some hope and optimism - I'm not some covid-denier or someone who thinks lockdowns don't work ignoring all the evidence, but the harm they cause is pretty apparent and if they keep going on they are taking significant parts away from people's lives.

Ultimately everyone's situation is different and we all have different priorities. People who are vulnerable or have vulnerable family members have every right to be concerned for their well-being when restrictions are eased, while people fearing for their jobs shouldn't feel guilty when they are told they can open up their businesses also. Personally I think the government have approached this well (for once), but fully accept I could be wrong about that as I have been before.

But my point is not that we shouldn't open up, it's that we keep locking down too late and too softly and opening up too soon. Had we locked down faster and harder our lockdowns would not have needed to be as long and had we got down to a nominal level of infection before opening up again we could have controlled it better with test and trace and local lockdowns, as they have in other countries.

What isn't talked about much is that our approach has resulted in the worst of both worlds, we have among the highest death rates in the world and among the worst economic impact, most other countries with very high death rates have relatively low economic impacts. The government's response has been an unmitigated disaster and this will be no different.


Offline Minhosa

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4537 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:52:21 PM »
Think I'll be taking it easy from doing owt in a packed indoor venue until I've had my first jab like. Looking forward to leaving the confines of the NE1-7 postcodes as much as anything.

Exactly the same here too. We've been really cautious as a family since this whole thing kicked off (I'm asthmatic and ever so slightly shitting myself about a nasty respiratory disease as I struggle for breathe often throughout the year).

So, other than fuel stations, we've barely crossed the doors (food delivered, kids schooling from home etc) but the opening up, from selfish viewpoint, would have been preferable after a first jab tbh.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4538 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 12:55:24 PM »
Notable that our unit would usually be full of toddlers and babies with RSV, and we have had virtually none - almost no flu either. One of the intensivists has been doing this for decades and says he's never seen anything like this. One element might be that it's been bloody cold and snowy, but clearly the precautions have worked on more than COVID.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline ponsaelius

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4539 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:02:07 PM »
That was always going to be the case like - but it doesn't mean you can lockdown every winter forever.

I think a cultural shift towards more mask wearing during flu season like in East Asian countries and a more sympathetic/conscientious work culture which doesn't force people into the office when sick will be one of the very few positives to come from this mess. But anything more than that is not reasonable to carry forward forever.
Before that why didn't the Wigan fans just walk the the Stewart's, the Stewart's only went up to the touchline, their was a big gap between the end of the Stewart's and the stand they could have walked through.
God man replacement's don't have to 100% of best to 100% of a replacement.
The are both white, both intellects, both middle class, both the typical 'people who would have thought could never do such a thing ', all traits of a Psychopath.

Offline Stifleaay

  • Heavy scarer of dogs
  • General Member
  • Come here you ginger bitch.
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4540 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:04:29 PM »
I’ve got my vaccines booked. :D

Offline ponsaelius

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4541 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:08:03 PM »
Exciting news. Do you know which one you're getting?
Before that why didn't the Wigan fans just walk the the Stewart's, the Stewart's only went up to the touchline, their was a big gap between the end of the Stewart's and the stand they could have walked through.
God man replacement's don't have to 100% of best to 100% of a replacement.
The are both white, both intellects, both middle class, both the typical 'people who would have thought could never do such a thing ', all traits of a Psychopath.

Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4542 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:08:14 PM »
Notable that our unit would usually be full of toddlers and babies with RSV, and we have had virtually none - almost no flu either. One of the intensivists has been doing this for decades and says he's never seen anything like this. One element might be that it's been bloody cold and snowy, but clearly the precautions have worked on more than COVID.
I’ve got my vaccines booked. :D
Have you got underlying ? My daughter has Epilepsy and was told she'd be in tier 6 and we've heard nowt yet.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4543 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:09:11 PM »
That was always going to be the case like - but it doesn't mean you can lockdown every winter forever.

I think a cultural shift towards more mask wearing during flu season like in East Asian countries and a more sympathetic/conscientious work culture which doesn't force people into the office when sick will be one of the very few positives to come from this mess. But anything more than that is not reasonable to carry forward forever.

Yup. Other than please Christ can the US start to actually do something about its labour policies (sick leave, childcare) and health service?
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
  • London, UK
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4544 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:13:47 PM »
Boris likely to go when all of this is done? Got Brexit over the line and navigated COVID

f***ed up the economy and killed tens of thousands.
So, a knighthood.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4545 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:14:01 PM »
Also, I'd be interested to hear from anybody with the knowledge what the norm is for mask-wearing in places like Japan, China etc. I mean, pre-COVID, and not the mask-wearing to combat airborne pollution. Like, is it seasonal? Is it only in certain cities, or certain environments (public transport etc)? I can see some adoption of this in the US, at least for a while. Really looking forward to the childish, macho culture wars around it too.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline Stifleaay

  • Heavy scarer of dogs
  • General Member
  • Come here you ginger bitch.
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4546 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:15:20 PM »
Exciting news. Do you know which one you're getting?
I don’t know in advance but it’s the same vaccination centre that my mam and stepdad went too (Parks, North Shields) and they both had the Oxford one.
I’m not getting too worked up on which one I get, they both appear to be fairly similar in terms of effectiveness in anyway, and I’ll likely be getting a 3rd/booster one in the fall regardless.

My 2nd vaccine is booked in for May 22nd, which means it should follow nicely for me to wait for the pubs and everywhere else to whiten down for 3 weeks whilst my vaccine takes effect to enable me to socialise more.

Offline Stifleaay

  • Heavy scarer of dogs
  • General Member
  • Come here you ginger bitch.
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4547 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:17:44 PM »
Notable that our unit would usually be full of toddlers and babies with RSV, and we have had virtually none - almost no flu either. One of the intensivists has been doing this for decades and says he's never seen anything like this. One element might be that it's been bloody cold and snowy, but clearly the precautions have worked on more than COVID.
I’ve got my vaccines booked. :D
Have you got underlying ? My daughter has Epilepsy and was told she'd be in tier 6 and we've heard nowt yet.
Yeah, however I only got my text today whilst I was driving, as soon as I got home I booked it up.
Apparently tier 6 people are being put forward via their GP, so it will be how fast your GP works on it. If you are worried, just give them a call.

Offline Jackie Broon

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4548 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:20:39 PM »
Notable that our unit would usually be full of toddlers and babies with RSV, and we have had virtually none - almost no flu either. One of the intensivists has been doing this for decades and says he's never seen anything like this. One element might be that it's been bloody cold and snowy, but clearly the precautions have worked on more than COVID.
I’ve got my vaccines booked. :D
Have you got underlying ? My daughter has Epilepsy and was told she'd be in tier 6 and we've heard nowt yet.

My wife had hers this morning. Might be worth contacting your doctor as it's at their discretion, my wife has asthma which isn't at a level that's classed as severe but she has been hosipitilised with it in the past so her doctor put her down for the vaccine.

Offline St. Maximin

  • General Member
Re: COVID-19
« Reply #4549 on: Tuesday 23 February 2021, 01:28:41 PM »
So we're essentially going back to the level of restrictions that didn't work to contain the Kent strain before this lockdown but we're still at 10k positive tests per day and now the Kent strain is the dominant strain everywhere and we'll have 25% of the population walking around with partial immunity thinking they're invincible. What could possibly go wrong?



33% of adults already vaccinated, the groups responsible for 90% of deaths have all been vaccinated, that will increase by the time the Schools go back and even further again by the time the next set of restrictions are lifted. The objective was always stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed which should be the case moving forwards.

Setting the objective as being the NHS not being overwhelmed has resulted in 120,000 deaths. It is a lagging indicator, if the NHS is anywhere near being overwhelmed we're already at the point where we have 2 months+ of 500+ deaths per day, 15,000+ deaths per month, and countless other people being left with long term heath conditions. The objective should have and should be to get a keep case levels down to a level that can be controlled by testing and tracing. Each time we have left our lockdowns far too late and come out of them too soon, and we've clearly haven't learnt any lessons from that either in the government, scientific community or population.
We have had three technical lockdowns and I agree we've locked down too late each time. Saying that we've had fairly tight restrictions since September in many areas of the country before this lockdown came into place and I don't see this as being too soon at present. By the time we can merely do things like meet in groups of six outside, the lockdown will have gone on nearly three months (longer for those in tier four), which is longer than we had last year. We have an excellent vaccine programme with studies producing more positive results, plus better understanding of how to treat covid, so this isn't the same. It's been an awful winter and people just need some hope and optimism - I'm not some covid-denier or someone who thinks lockdowns don't work ignoring all the evidence, but the harm they cause is pretty apparent and if they keep going on they are taking significant parts away from people's lives.

Ultimately everyone's situation is different and we all have different priorities. People who are vulnerable or have vulnerable family members have every right to be concerned for their well-being when restrictions are eased, while people fearing for their jobs shouldn't feel guilty when they are told they can open up their businesses also. Personally I think the government have approached this well (for once), but fully accept I could be wrong about that as I have been before.

But my point is not that we shouldn't open up, it's that we keep locking down too late and too softly and opening up too soon. Had we locked down faster and harder our lockdowns would not have needed to be as long and had we got down to a nominal level of infection before opening up again we could have controlled it better with test and trace and local lockdowns, as they have in other countries.

What isn't talked about much is that our approach has resulted in the worst of both worlds, we have among the highest death rates in the world and among the worst economic impact, most other countries with very high death rates have relatively low economic impacts. The government's response has been an unmitigated disaster and this will be no different.
Yeah I agree with you on the previous lockdowns and this one starting too late; just don't think this time is quite comparable because it's occurring during a swiftly progressing vaccination programme that studies are showing is both preventing severe symptoms and limiting transmission. Considering there are some people who strangely want society opened up much quicker, I think this is a decent compromise. Many parts of the UK would have effectively been in lockdown three months by the time the rule of six comes into force again (it wasn't much longer before the pubs reopened last year) and hopefully we'll keep the airport quarantine rule in place for a while, which should also make a big difference to last year.

Social distancing requirements such as wearing masks will have to continue significantly after this summer in my opinion, but all being well we should be getting things down to a manageable level.