Author Topic: UK Politics - Generation Tory  (Read 135498 times)

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Offline BlufPurdi

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4400 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:27:47 AM »
Well exactly. Nothing's changed.

A complete non-issue that can't be altered with the best will in the world, and Tories have managed to make Labour split itself in two over. At some point we'll realise what the real game is here, and it's not standing on principles.

Literally read someone (I respect) on twitter say "at least it felt like a real democracy with Corbyn, even if we never got power", JESUS f***ing CHRIST.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Wullie

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4401 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:32:05 AM »
Well exactly. Nothing's changed.

A complete non-issue that can't be altered with the best will in the world, and Tories have managed to make Labour split itself in two over. At some point we'll realise what the real game is here, and it's not standing on principles.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline Super Duper Branko Strupar

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4402 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:37:21 AM »
Yep.
Soon you will find out the man I'm supposed to be.

Offline geordiesteve710

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4403 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:48:16 AM »

The scale of the defeat means that the only thing Labour can do now is try to be elected next time, they no longer have any power in tight votes. Everything must be viewed in that context.

Regrettably, this is the situation we find ourselves in. The problem is also magnified by parts of the media who seem intent on scrutinising the leader of the opposition carefully while giving the PM a relatively free ride. It's not right or fair but it's the reality.

Classic example is Kuenssberg 2 days ago branding Labour "ThE pArTy Of LoCkDoWn" when Starmer supported the idea of following scientific advice and a circuitbreaker.

If we gwt out of this pandemic without a lockdown and  without deaths in the 6 figures that will be the slogan to beat Starmer with in 2024. "Labour wanted to lock us down forever" etc

Log on to the N-O forum.
Check the transfer thread in the vague hope we might be going to spend some money, get p*ssed off.
Move to the Mike Ashley thread because I'm p*ssed off, get more p*ssed off.
Come to this thread to cheer myself up a bit.
Leave.
Repeat.

Online gbandit

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4404 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:49:31 AM »
Hopefully Kuenssberg f***s off with Andrew Neil soon

Offline madras

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4405 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:54:43 AM »

The scale of the defeat means that the only thing Labour can do now is try to be elected next time, they no longer have any power in tight votes. Everything must be viewed in that context.

Regrettably, this is the situation we find ourselves in. The problem is also magnified by parts of the media who seem intent on scrutinising the leader of the opposition carefully while giving the PM a relatively free ride. It's not right or fair but it's the reality.

Classic example is Kuenssberg 2 days ago branding Labour "ThE pArTy Of LoCkDoWn" when Starmer supported the idea of following scientific advice and a circuitbreaker.

If we gwt out of this pandemic without a lockdown and  without deaths in the 6 figures that will be the slogan to beat Starmer with in 2024. "Labour wanted to lock us down forever" etc


Another thing I noticed was if anyone varies from the Government its just political opportunism or politicising the pandemic when ignoring, after months of saying they are following the science, that they blatantly ignore the science without scrutiny.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Online ManDoon

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  • pls die DT
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4406 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:57:29 AM »
?s=19

Agree with him 100%
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Trump will do well man. Don't know why but I really feel this will be the case. Really hope it will come to be that way.

Steve Bruce "“We can’t compete with the bigs boys at the top end so the cup is our best bet - it’s a lovely day out”"

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4407 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 11:09:19 AM »
Labour need to be pushing hard on this private test & trace bullshit now, since Starmer took over it's all been back foot with the Tories driving the narrative.

They should have MPs on every channel and every media source hammering them to f*** for this.

That Carden point was bang on - however many billion into private firms and no legacy for the NHS or public health for use in the future. All profit.

Really seems like a battle they can win, might be different if T&T had succeeded but it's failed miserably.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline geordiesteve710

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4408 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 11:11:34 AM »
Labour need to be pushing hard on this private test & trace bullshit now, since Starmer took over it's all been back foot with the Tories driving the narrative.

They should have MPs on every channel and every media source hammering them to f*** for this.

That Carden point was bang on - however many billion into private firms and no legacy for the NHS or public health for use in the future. All profit.

Really seems like a battle they can win, might be different if T&T had succeeded but it's failed miserably.

100%
Log on to the N-O forum.
Check the transfer thread in the vague hope we might be going to spend some money, get p*ssed off.
Move to the Mike Ashley thread because I'm p*ssed off, get more p*ssed off.
Come to this thread to cheer myself up a bit.
Leave.
Repeat.

Offline Varadi

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4409 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 03:48:04 PM »
Marina Hyde's latest piece nails the current shower perfectly

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/16/conservatives-party-boris-johnson

Offline toon25

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4410 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 04:33:29 PM »
Hopefully Kuenssberg f***s off with Andrew Neil soon

I don’t think I’ve known a person less qualified to do the job she’s doing. She’s a s*** writer and a gossip merchant, better suited to writing stories about Katie Price’s tits in the Sun.

Arrogant c*** of the highest order with little gravitas to back it up

Online sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4411 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 05:11:28 PM »
Hopefully Kuenssberg f***s off with Andrew Neil soon

I don’t think I’ve known a person less qualified to do the job she’s doing. She’s a s*** writer and a gossip merchant, better suited to writing stories about Katie Price’s tits in the Sun.

Arrogant c*** of the highest order with little gravitas to back it up

Don't need any when the BBC pay your wages. The global reputation of the Beeb is enough to ensure anybody that works there is treated with reverence. Or loathed, by the scum that one day they may be forced to mingle with.

Offline Super Duper Branko Strupar

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Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4412 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 08:35:20 PM »
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2020/10/why-keir-starmer-s-approach-security-comes-big-risk

Made me think. I still agree with Starmer's position now, but obviously hope there is a longer play here. I was aware of the Torys' derision of the Human Rights Act but you forget it in amongst all this s***. That better be being planed for. I'm confident it is, though.
Soon you will find out the man I'm supposed to be.

Offline Si

  • General Member
  • I dont handle change well.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4413 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 08:38:51 PM »
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2020/10/why-keir-starmer-s-approach-security-comes-big-risk

Made me think. I still agree with Starmer's position now, but obviously hope there is a longer play here. I was aware of the Torys' derision of the Human Rights Act but you forget it in amongst all this s***. That better be being planed for. I'm confident it is, though.
It's a dog s*** bill and will come back to haunt him.
Bearings Straight!

Offline BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4414 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 08:49:13 PM »
For what it's worth, I don't agree with it. I think him of all people, the esteemed human rights lawyer, should be taking the stand and using that forensic and convincing manner of his to try and change minds, but I understand what they're doing all the same. We have to be in a better position first, although they have to accept what politics means to other people too, the people they largely take for granted sadly. We can't just dismiss people because they won't accept abstaining, it's honestly how we lost Scotland. Those that accepted it would calmly explain the logic, but every single time they pulled apart every MP in Scotland that abstained on things like Trident and Iraq related issues to the point of genuine extinction. It does create problems to the left of us, which is less of a problem because of no feasible alternative, but it drives the likes of the SNP. 

In saying that, it's clear we also need to get better tactically at what's happening. The Tories are awful, possibly incompetent, personal belief is malicious and corrupt, but either way they know how to hold onto power and they love watching Labour tear themselves apart over s*** like this, it's so easy. Somehow the SNP can abstain on things, not sure on this mind, and not get the same reaction from its people, there is too much of an adversarial culture in the party and it needs sorted one way or another.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Super Duper Branko Strupar

  • General Member
  • Bam Bam.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4415 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 08:59:54 PM »
It's a dog s*** bill, that's why they're abstaining. We believe that, I've no doubt Starmer and most in the Labour party think exactly the same. But Bluf's right, we have to be in a better position AND we have to understand what politics means to others. However, unfortunately, that means understanding what politics means to those who are not of our opinion on this. Because we need them to vote with us. This Tory government HAS to be beaten at the next election. And we need to rebuild Labour support. And if that means pandering a bit to the current narrative of populist patriotism, then that's necessary. Because we need to change their minds. And we can change their minds. But positioning yourself as wholly unaccepting of their opinion just will not work. I have no doubt the Labour party position is to vastly improve this bill in the future. They've stated quite clearly their opposition to it currently, and the points contained within it that they don't find at all acceptable, and demanding the assurance this isn't applied retrospectively. But we can't improve it unless we're in power. And we're currently on the wrong side of the vernacular. We can be petulant and continue to lose or we can be smarter and make actual f***ing changes.

Even as the party in opposition, we still need to considered as a party that is representative of people's opinions. Otherwise we break up and get demolished for the next 30 years. There are some of us on the left that are adamant that will absolutely not f***ing happen. It would be nice if everyone was of the same opinion.

Soon you will find out the man I'm supposed to be.

Offline OCK

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4416 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 09:04:05 PM »
Boris can't even negotiate with Manchester.

Offline Si

  • General Member
  • I dont handle change well.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4417 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 09:04:23 PM »
[emoji38]
Bearings Straight!

Online ManDoon

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  • pls die DT
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4418 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 09:10:31 PM »
It's a dog s*** bill, that's why they're abstaining. We believe that, I've no doubt Starmer and most in the Labour party think exactly the same. But Bluf's right, we have to be in a better position AND we have to understand what politics means to others. However, unfortunately, that means understanding what politics means to those who are not of our opinion on this. Because we need them to vote with us. This Tory government HAS to be beaten at the next election. And we need to rebuild Labour support. And if that means pandering a bit to the current narrative of populist patriotism, then that's necessary. Because we need to change their minds. And we can change their minds. But positioning yourself as wholly unaccepting of their opinion just will not work. I have no doubt the Labour party position is to vastly improve this bill in the future. They've stated quite clearly their opposition to it currently, and the points contained within it that they don't find at all acceptable, and demanding the assurance this isn't applied retrospectively. But we can't improve it unless we're in power. And we're currently on the wrong side of the vernacular. We can be petulant and continue to lose or we can be smarter and make actual f***ing changes.

Even as the party in opposition, we still need to considered as a party that is representative of people's opinions. Otherwise we break up and get demolished for the next 30 years. There are some of us on the left that are adamant that will absolutely not f***ing happen. It would be nice if everyone was of the same opinion.

Fair enough, but I don't even think right wing lunatics consider this bill any good, who are we appeasing? Is there anyone who reckons this bill is in anyway good?
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Trump will do well man. Don't know why but I really feel this will be the case. Really hope it will come to be that way.

Steve Bruce "“We can’t compete with the bigs boys at the top end so the cup is our best bet - it’s a lovely day out”"

Offline Super Duper Branko Strupar

  • General Member
  • Bam Bam.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4419 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 09:16:40 PM »
It's a dog s*** bill, that's why they're abstaining. We believe that, I've no doubt Starmer and most in the Labour party think exactly the same. But Bluf's right, we have to be in a better position AND we have to understand what politics means to others. However, unfortunately, that means understanding what politics means to those who are not of our opinion on this. Because we need them to vote with us. This Tory government HAS to be beaten at the next election. And we need to rebuild Labour support. And if that means pandering a bit to the current narrative of populist patriotism, then that's necessary. Because we need to change their minds. And we can change their minds. But positioning yourself as wholly unaccepting of their opinion just will not work. I have no doubt the Labour party position is to vastly improve this bill in the future. They've stated quite clearly their opposition to it currently, and the points contained within it that they don't find at all acceptable, and demanding the assurance this isn't applied retrospectively. But we can't improve it unless we're in power. And we're currently on the wrong side of the vernacular. We can be petulant and continue to lose or we can be smarter and make actual f***ing changes.

Even as the party in opposition, we still need to considered as a party that is representative of people's opinions. Otherwise we break up and get demolished for the next 30 years. There are some of us on the left that are adamant that will absolutely not f***ing happen. It would be nice if everyone was of the same opinion.

Fair enough, but I don't even think right wing lunatics consider this bill any good, who are we appeasing? Is there anyone who reckons this bill is in anyway good?

We're trying to appease those that have no f***ing idea of the detail of any of this f***ing bill, unfortunately. Which is a f*** ton of people. The people that would shout Labour down for opposing "National Security", without any regard for the effectiveness, sacrifices or consequences. We're appeasing the ignorant, as hard as that may be to take. But we're in an age of utter f***ing ignorance. And if we want people to not be stupid and ignorant, we can't shout them down as being stupid and ignorant. No one on the planet responds positively to that. This isn't about policy, its about the group psychology.
Soon you will find out the man I'm supposed to be.

Online neesy111

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4420 on: Friday 16 October 2020, 10:08:20 PM »
It's a dog s*** bill, that's why they're abstaining. We believe that, I've no doubt Starmer and most in the Labour party think exactly the same. But Bluf's right, we have to be in a better position AND we have to understand what politics means to others. However, unfortunately, that means understanding what politics means to those who are not of our opinion on this. Because we need them to vote with us. This Tory government HAS to be beaten at the next election. And we need to rebuild Labour support. And if that means pandering a bit to the current narrative of populist patriotism, then that's necessary. Because we need to change their minds. And we can change their minds. But positioning yourself as wholly unaccepting of their opinion just will not work. I have no doubt the Labour party position is to vastly improve this bill in the future. They've stated quite clearly their opposition to it currently, and the points contained within it that they don't find at all acceptable, and demanding the assurance this isn't applied retrospectively. But we can't improve it unless we're in power. And we're currently on the wrong side of the vernacular. We can be petulant and continue to lose or we can be smarter and make actual f***ing changes.

Even as the party in opposition, we still need to considered as a party that is representative of people's opinions. Otherwise we break up and get demolished for the next 30 years. There are some of us on the left that are adamant that will absolutely not f***ing happen. It would be nice if everyone was of the same opinion.

Fair enough, but I don't even think right wing lunatics consider this bill any good, who are we appeasing? Is there anyone who reckons this bill is in anyway good?

We're trying to appease those that have no f***ing idea of the detail of any of this f***ing bill, unfortunately. Which is a f*** ton of people. The people that would shout Labour down for opposing "National Security", without any regard for the effectiveness, sacrifices or consequences. We're appeasing the ignorant, as hard as that may be to take. But we're in an age of utter f***ing ignorance. And if we want people to not be stupid and ignorant, we can't shout them down as being stupid and ignorant. No one on the planet responds positively to that. This isn't about policy, its about the group psychology.

This is it, 95%+ of people won't have a foggiest clue about this bill.


Offline Thomson Mouse

  • General Member
  • Perth, Western Australia
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4422 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 12:39:08 PM »
?s=21
People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.

Offline toon25

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4423 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 02:04:40 PM »
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/priti-patel-ignored-ministers-pleas-to-stop-lefty-lawyer-attacks-after-law-firm-stabbing/18/10/?fbclid=IwAR1QVPzdvg8messCtzg6045dQUBiAI-C41Mmx7GmriI65RkJlNvhtHf3pAo

What a lovely person Priti Patel is :harry:

But apparently Labour don’t take security in this country  :lol:

The hottest fires of hell would be too cool for this woman. Rotten to the f***ing core. I wonder what living in a Patel world would actually look like (aside from 15ft statues of the cretin)

Offline BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #4424 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 02:37:57 PM »
Find it rather surprising Suella Braverman intervened. Must have been her position compelling her to, as 9 times out of 10 she's as bad as Patel. Perhaps not the sneering, but definitely as full of s*** and will say anything to justify a position. Don't know enough about Buckland to say.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.