Topic: UK Politics - Generation Tory

[GeordieMessiah]

Of the likely runners and riders I think Starmer has a chance of winning an election. I don't think anyone else gains more than about 20-30 seats.

But sadly, because he's not a one-armed black lesbian wheelchair user single parent, he's not what the Momentum/Corbynite faction want to see at the helm, so his path will be blocked.

I mean, he's a Knight of the Realm, Queen's Counsel and incredibly intelligent and he still manages to empathise enough with the arse end of society to have altruistic tendencies, but it won't be good enough for the home-knitted jumper rebellion.

Hopefully that’s absolutely bollocks, which it sounds like it is.

It's not bollocks though is it? Sadly, the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes which bears more resemblance to the shoe disciples in the Life of Brian than it does to a government in waiting.



But so long as the Corbynistas have their 'principles' and keep 'winning the argument' whilst alienating their core voters, eh? I'm sure knowing that Burgon thinks they 'won the argument' is a great comfort to anyone reliant on public services, the NHS, education, the justice system. Don't worry about the cliff-edge Brexit in December 2020 folks. Don't worry about the likelihood of martial law being imposed if things go truly up s*** street in 2021.

I'm so f***ing angry with how things have turned out and so depressed by it all. 

[mrmojorisin75]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

[GeordieMessiah]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

[ManDoon]

Pretty sure preening is always done by the person? So what’s wrong with “self preening”?

[GeordieMessiah]

Pretty sure preening is always done by the person? So what’s wrong with “self preening”?

It means being excessively pleased with oneself, being overly self-satisfied - and somehow being cocksure that (despite being 10% or so behind in all the opinion polls throughout the previous months) they were nailed on to win the election.

[Jimburst]

Of the likely runners and riders I think Starmer has a chance of winning an election. I don't think anyone else gains more than about 20-30 seats.

But sadly, because he's not a one-armed black lesbian wheelchair user single parent, he's not what the Momentum/Corbynite faction want to see at the helm, so his path will be blocked.


I mean, he's a Knight of the Realm, Queen's Counsel and incredibly intelligent and he still manages to empathise enough with the arse end of society to have altruistic tendencies, but it won't be good enough for the home-knitted jumper rebellion.

Fancying some attention today GM?

As if that's not the sole reason for the existence of this forum? Or are you here for altruistic purposes, Jimbo?

Many thanks for the lovely welcome back after all these months, though.

Welcome back.

Aye, most of my posts on here are calling people out for spelling mistakes or being idiots, so I suppose I'm mostly here for self gratification.

[neesy111]

Welcome back @GeordieMessiah

[leffe186]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

They really, really didn't have a free open goal. As this guy on the front lines puts it:

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

Brexit completely f***ed Labour, and the Tories knew it, that's precisely why they fought for the election in the first place. Of course Labour made a bit of a pig;s ear of things, but they were fighting against the odds. That guy from Scunthorpe who people are taking the p*ss out of - well sure, his vote for the Tories as a vote for change seemed silly, but the change he was looking for was Brexit. Why do you think this election was an open goal? A significant proportion of their own support lined up behind Brexit. They were hamstrung anyway. Sure, Corbyn was an easy mark, and sure, they were divided, but facing a wilfully compliant media (traditional and non-traditional) just applied the coup de grace.

[madras]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

They really, really didn't have a free open goal. As this guy on the front lines puts it:

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

Brexit completely f***ed Labour, and the Tories knew it, that's precisely why they fought for the election in the first place. Of course Labour made a bit of a pig;s ear of things, but they were fighting against the odds. That guy from Scunthorpe who people are taking the p*ss out of - well sure, his vote for the Tories as a vote for change seemed silly, but the change he was looking for was Brexit. Why do you think this election was an open goal? A significant proportion of their own support lined up behind Brexit. They were hamstrung anyway. Sure, Corbyn was an easy mark, and sure, they were divided, but facing a wilfully compliant media (traditional and non-traditional) just applied the coup de grace.

Its how it was handled, Corbyns lack of position on it for months. Attack them on the legitimacy of a confirmatory vote that even Rees Mogg had proposed way back.

Labour just didnt attack or defend itself, it just said here are our policies, do you like them ?

[Kimbo]

Thornberry is the first to officially throw her beret into the ring, but with Flint torpedoing her boat early on I expect she has no real chance.

[Klaus]

Thornberry ffs, this is how far we have fallen.

[Shay's Given Tim Flowers]

She's not awful by any stretch. Esther Mcvey ran for leadership for the Tory's 

[kingkerouac]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

Oh, come on, the right-wing press, the anti-semitic trolling, and the elephant in the room - Brexit, did for Labour.
Anyone standing with a red rosette had no chance.

[Wullie]

Good to see you GM.

[leffe186]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

They really, really didn't have a free open goal. As this guy on the front lines puts it:

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

Brexit completely f***ed Labour, and the Tories knew it, that's precisely why they fought for the election in the first place. Of course Labour made a bit of a pig;s ear of things, but they were fighting against the odds. That guy from Scunthorpe who people are taking the p*ss out of - well sure, his vote for the Tories as a vote for change seemed silly, but the change he was looking for was Brexit. Why do you think this election was an open goal? A significant proportion of their own support lined up behind Brexit. They were hamstrung anyway. Sure, Corbyn was an easy mark, and sure, they were divided, but facing a wilfully compliant media (traditional and non-traditional) just applied the coup de grace.

Its how it was handled, Corbyns lack of position on it for months. Attack them on the legitimacy of a confirmatory vote that even Rees Mogg had proposed way back.

Labour just didnt attack or defend itself, it just said here are our policies, do you like them ?

I agree with that, but it doesn't change the fundamental point that many people didn't care, they really did just want to Get Brexit Done. They didn't want a confirmatory vote, they didn't want a second referendum. I think the constituency of historically Labour voters who wanted Brexit broadly liked the policies and broadly hated Corbyn, but neither of those really mattered enough on their own. The key choice Labour had was to (a) back the Leave vote and lay out their plan for negotiating new trade deals etc (b) back the Remain vote and lay out their plan to stop Brexit (c) a second referendum. I don't think any of those three choices would have changed the result of the election, sadly.

[madras]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

Oh, come on, the right-wing press, the anti-semitic trolling, and the elephant in the room - Brexit, did for Labour.
Anyone standing with a red rosette had no chance.

Did Labour go on the attack about Tory Islamaphobia ?

Did Labour go on the attack about a confirmatory referendum ?

Did Corbyn hammer home Johnson's lies about 40 new hospitals in the debates ?

[madras]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

They really, really didn't have a free open goal. As this guy on the front lines puts it:

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

Brexit completely f***ed Labour, and the Tories knew it, that's precisely why they fought for the election in the first place. Of course Labour made a bit of a pig;s ear of things, but they were fighting against the odds. That guy from Scunthorpe who people are taking the p*ss out of - well sure, his vote for the Tories as a vote for change seemed silly, but the change he was looking for was Brexit. Why do you think this election was an open goal? A significant proportion of their own support lined up behind Brexit. They were hamstrung anyway. Sure, Corbyn was an easy mark, and sure, they were divided, but facing a wilfully compliant media (traditional and non-traditional) just applied the coup de grace.

Its how it was handled, Corbyns lack of position on it for months. Attack them on the legitimacy of a confirmatory vote that even Rees Mogg had proposed way back.

Labour just didnt attack or defend itself, it just said here are our policies, do you like them ?

I agree with that, but it doesn't change the fundamental point that many people didn't care, they really did just want to Get Brexit Done. They didn't want a confirmatory vote, they didn't want a second referendum. I think the constituency of historically Labour voters who wanted Brexit broadly liked the policies and broadly hated Corbyn, but neither of those really mattered enough on their own. The key choice Labour had was to (a) back the Leave vote and lay out their plan for negotiating new trade deals etc (b) back the Remain vote and lay out their plan to stop Brexit (c) a second referendum. I don't think any of those three choices would have changed the result of the election, sadly.

Because it wasnt sold, most I spoke to thought it was precisely a second referendum, the same question as the first. The Tory position is weak when its pushed but it has to be hammered, and ridiculed as being nonsensical. It wasnt. FFS Labour still doesnt defend itself from the 2008 crash.

[leffe186]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

Oh, come on, the right-wing press, the anti-semitic trolling, and the elephant in the room - Brexit, did for Labour.
Anyone standing with a red rosette had no chance.

Did Labour go on the attack about Tory Islamaphobia ?

Did Labour go on the attack about a confirmatory referendum ?

Did Corbyn hammer home Johnson's lies about 40 new hospitals in the debates ?

Would it have mattered if they did? Because I really don't think so, but we'd have to agree to disagree on that.

I think Labour didn't campaign particularly well, but the key point where I disagree with GM is the idea that the election was a free, open goal. I'm yet to see a convincing argument that it's completely or even primarily Labour's fault that they lost. Brexit was an almighty chain around their neck, coupled with systematic misinformation online and a distinctly peculiar approach from the BBC. And, of course, the usual suspects (Sun, Mail etc etc).

[leffe186]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

They really, really didn't have a free open goal. As this guy on the front lines puts it:

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

Brexit completely f***ed Labour, and the Tories knew it, that's precisely why they fought for the election in the first place. Of course Labour made a bit of a pig;s ear of things, but they were fighting against the odds. That guy from Scunthorpe who people are taking the p*ss out of - well sure, his vote for the Tories as a vote for change seemed silly, but the change he was looking for was Brexit. Why do you think this election was an open goal? A significant proportion of their own support lined up behind Brexit. They were hamstrung anyway. Sure, Corbyn was an easy mark, and sure, they were divided, but facing a wilfully compliant media (traditional and non-traditional) just applied the coup de grace.

Its how it was handled, Corbyns lack of position on it for months. Attack them on the legitimacy of a confirmatory vote that even Rees Mogg had proposed way back.

Labour just didnt attack or defend itself, it just said here are our policies, do you like them ?

I agree with that, but it doesn't change the fundamental point that many people didn't care, they really did just want to Get Brexit Done. They didn't want a confirmatory vote, they didn't want a second referendum. I think the constituency of historically Labour voters who wanted Brexit broadly liked the policies and broadly hated Corbyn, but neither of those really mattered enough on their own. The key choice Labour had was to (a) back the Leave vote and lay out their plan for negotiating new trade deals etc (b) back the Remain vote and lay out their plan to stop Brexit (c) a second referendum. I don't think any of those three choices would have changed the result of the election, sadly.

Because it wasnt sold, most I spoke to thought it was precisely a second referendum, the same question as the first. The Tory position is weak when its pushed but it has to be hammered, and ridiculed as being nonsensical. It wasnt. FFS Labour still doesnt defend itself from the 2008 crash.

It's a little difficult for me to comment on the public perceptions of their message in the UK because I'm over here in the US. Somebody on here (Northerngimp?) made the point that the question in a second referendum might be slanted towards Remain under a Labour government, which remains *cough* to be seen but is a fair point and might colour people's perceptions too. Again, though, the impression I get is that the key people simply weren't listening.

It sounds like the Labour Party have consistently failed to firmly, eloquently and effectively defend themselves over 2008, and now their Brexit position. There are mitigating factors for that failure, sure, but that's obviously true. Again though, I just think Brexit was far too much of a factor in this election for that to shift the needle at all. Labour helped lay the foundations for that failure over the last decade, but they were just carrying the bricks for the real workers - the Conservative Party, social and mainstream media, investment bankers - sure, the Russians, let's go there. The key thing to do now would be to immediately go on the attack - and this is where Labour have the biggest opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Thomson Mouse]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

Oh, come on, the right-wing press, the anti-semitic trolling, and the elephant in the room - Brexit, did for Labour.
Anyone standing with a red rosette had no chance.

Did Labour go on the attack about Tory Islamaphobia ?

Did Labour go on the attack about a confirmatory referendum ?

Did Corbyn hammer home Johnson's lies about 40 new hospitals in the debates ?

The Islamaphobia is generallythought of as ok compared to anti-semitism in the general population.

Leffe is right, Labour shouldn’t have agreed to an election until Brexit was sorted out.

[Ian W]

Antisenitism is an ironic thing to lose on, given how many northern working class people don’t like Jews.

[Rafalove]

Antisenitism is an ironic thing to lose on, given how many northern working class people don’t like Jews.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone have a problem with Jews tbh. There aren’t really many of them though.

[GeordieMessiah]

Antisenitism is an ironic thing to lose on, given how many northern working class people don’t like Jews.

Don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone have a problem with Jews tbh. There aren’t really many of them though.

I was thinking that too - to the extent I bothered to Google how many Jews there are in the UK. It's apparently just 250K. For such a relatively small community, they don't half have some considerable (some might say disproportionate) influence in shaping the political landscape of this country, don't they? Or is it antisemitic to say that?

[GeordieMessiah]

the Labour party has become a caricature of its former self, a ridiculous farce of a party, a condescending cult of woke, effete, self-preening arseholes

not necessarily disagreeing with you but have you been paying attention to the tory party at all

Yes - they've become every bit as bad a cult as HM Opposition. Johnson's government could be even more dystopian than what's preceded it.

But the point being that Labour blew their chance with their self-indulgent, Messianic cult of Corbyn, and their God complex thinking they could right all the wrongs of the past 10 years in a single manifesto.

They had a free, open goal with this election and the Chris Waddled the ball into the stratosphere. I don't know if I'll ever forgive them for that.

Oh, come on, the right-wing press, the anti-semitic trolling, and the elephant in the room - Brexit, did for Labour.
Anyone standing with a red rosette had no chance.

Did Labour go on the attack about Tory Islamaphobia ?

Did Labour go on the attack about a confirmatory referendum ?

Did Corbyn hammer home Johnson's lies about 40 new hospitals in the debates ?

Truth be told, ever since Alastair "sexed-up dossier" Campbell left them, they have been hugely inept in their comms. Yes, Corbyn managed to reach out to a huge number of people who had been 'beyond' mainstream politics, hence his Jesus on the Mountain like gatherings across the country. But they were only ever attended by Corbyn enthusiasts and it looked to everyone else as though Labour had become a sectarian cult. Saw Starmer earlier on was saying that Labour should have flattened the 'Get Brexit Done' slogan at birth, but they allowed it to become the rallying call of this general election. Cummings may be an evil little t*** but he's a dangerously clever evil little t*** and he's outplayed Labour again and again. And I loathe that fact.

[Kimbo]

Well who did Corbyn hire as directer of comms? One of his mates and the oddest of oddballs at the guardian, a man that thinks Stalin wasn't too bad, Seumas Milne. It seems to me that you should hire someone that is well connected and respected among media s***s. Their job is to deal with the BBC, the sun, the mirror, and whoever else on a daily basis, not just the morning star, the canary, and novara media.