Author Topic: UK Politics - Generation Tory  (Read 61797 times)

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Offline toon25

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2075 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 06:59:18 PM »
The absolute state of Priti Patel, man  :lol:

Can barely conceal the pure Tory hate-spunk running through her veins.

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2076 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 07:27:48 PM »
She’s genuinely dangerous.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2077 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 07:33:57 PM »
A Home Secretary who doesn't know the difference between terrorism and counter-terrorism.

It's like a bad sitcom.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • Newcastle
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2078 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 07:38:23 PM »
She’s a massive pro for the voting base though.

Like them she genuinely hates large swathes of the population, and genuinely wants to see their lives made as miserable as much as possible for the smallest of reasons, plus with her being a brown female she absolves all other racism / misogyny.

Hence why she got the gig.

Offline James

  • Book Wanker Wannabe
  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2079 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 10:08:02 PM »
Patel is Professor Umbridge personified
I looked into the eye of the Island and what I saw was beautiful.

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2080 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 10:24:01 PM »
Patel is Professor Umbridge personified

What does this mean?

Offline Troll

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
  • Sacramento, California
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2081 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 10:30:43 PM »
Patel is Professor Umbridge personified

What does this mean?

She's a person in the form of a person.

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2082 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 10:58:47 PM »
Ah f*** it, never mind.

Offline James

  • Book Wanker Wannabe
  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2083 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 11:17:09 PM »
Patel is Professor Umbridge personified

What does this mean?

Don’t tell me you have never read Harry Potter???
I looked into the eye of the Island and what I saw was beautiful.

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2084 on: Friday 22 May 2020, 11:43:11 PM »
Nope.

Offline GeordieMessiah

  • Forum Colossus
  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2085 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 02:28:27 AM »
She’s a massive pro for the voting base though.

Like them she genuinely hates large swathes of the population, and genuinely wants to see their lives made as miserable as much as possible for the smallest of reasons, plus with her being a brown female she absolves all other racism / misogyny.

Hence why she got the gig.

She got the gig because she gobbled Boris, tbh.
Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name
And the corporate snakes coming in to feed
On that pathetic fact known as human greed
Skin and bone being raked over those hot coals
This dump never seems to give time for human soul

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2086 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 07:32:40 AM »
She’s a massive pro for the voting base though.

Like them she genuinely hates large swathes of the population, and genuinely wants to see their lives made as miserable as much as possible for the smallest of reasons, plus with her being a brown female she absolves all other racism / misogyny.

Hence why she got the gig.

She got the gig because she gobbled Boris, tbh.

:anguish:
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2087 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 11:54:33 AM »

Corbyn created Twitter pile-ons it seems.

This man is taken seriously. :facepalm:
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Varadi

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2088 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 11:59:51 AM »

Corbyn created Twitter pile-ons it seems.

This man is taken seriously. :facepalm:

Twitter is an absolute cesspit for politics stuff, on all sides. I follow quite a few people on there whose opinions I respect, but I never, ever read the replies to their tweets.

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2089 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 12:04:58 PM »
I mean, it’s designed for the opposite of reasonable debate. It’s crazy to even attempt it.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2090 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 01:27:11 PM »

Twitter is an absolute cesspit for politics stuff, on all sides. I follow quite a few people on there whose opinions I respect, but I never, ever read the replies to their tweets.

This is the root of the problem. Twitter is a cesspit for every political ideology. It itself almost goads you into being your worst condescending self. Some of the centrists kicking about on it are positively vile c***s. But it's only ever used to highlight left wing or far right abuse. Left wing being bundled into Labour/SNP, cybernats/corbynistas, even Bernie was a victim of it. Look at this tweet, it's evil, it represents the whole of the left and the figurehead must personally put a stop to it. Flip over to the far right abuse, and well, suddenly they don't have political patrons worth ruining and we'll pretend they're not massively in the Tory camp these days too. Everyone else between these two camps gets a free being a c*** ride.

Really does show how badly these journalists are in their own echo chamber if he genuinely believes what he just wrote. Stuipid f***.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline James

  • Book Wanker Wannabe
  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2091 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 02:36:07 PM »
Nope.

I’m shocked you come across as very well read
I looked into the eye of the Island and what I saw was beautiful.

Offline toon25

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2092 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 03:37:41 PM »
That Dominic Cummings needs to be done in, like. Reprehensible c***.

Offline bobloblaw

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2093 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 03:54:59 PM »
It's a problem because it could end the current ideology driving our economics. That's it. It's okay to pump money in when it's needed, but they still want to control what counts as 'needed'. For instance, there's a good argument made by Blyth, Mazzucato and their type of economist, that the stimulus going on now should have been done instead of the austerity economics we got ten years ago.

But, generally right leaning outlets, don't want that to become the common consensus as it rips up everything they preach about Labour and the left not being reliable with the finances of a nation. There's no independent outlet or even what would be considered a centrist economist arguing against this. It's just the right wing that is.

Read Mazzucato's most recent piece in the FT. I know you asked for someone that understands economics, and I'd be lying if I said I truly did, but it's more about who you follow and read and she's perfect. Blyth doesn't write enough, but his videos, podcasts etc are just as valuable. As cynical as it sounds, our current economic model is being held together by the power structures still in place, the old school politicians that still wish it was the 90s don't want to accept the change required. Keep people talking about balancing the books, living within our means etc, and not actually understand the basics of economics.

I'm a big fan of Blyth will read the others.

My understanding (might be complete bollocks) is that the debt isn't an issue for the following reasons
1) We print our own money, so we can never run out of it
2) Interest rates are super low levels, also who the f*** are we paying money, to invent more money - doesn't make sense
3) Inflation is the worry due to all this money printing, but billions (maybe trillions) have been pumped in as QE but inflation is still pretty low
4) If the govt is spending money, building things paying wages etc, this money is circulated in to the economy. People buy stuff and people pay taxes (on wages and the stuff they buy), so the govt is getting back a % of any cash it spends regardless

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new-moment-explained

This is an intersting article on the alternative Modern monetary theory, though I can't see those in power going this route without a fight

I'll preface this by saying government debt is not inherently bad.

There are several reasons to limit government borrowing/quantitative easing:

A: Crowding Out Effect
B: Worries about paying interest on the debt preventing spending on other things
c: Inflation (through debt monetization)
D: Government intervention through spending can lead to inefficient outcomes and deadweight loss
E: The negative effects tend to be regressive... property owners are less impacted by inflation than renters, for example
F: External debt holders will be less willing to buy your debt if you devalue your currency - it makes their investments worthless
G: Just as a thought experiment, ask yourself if your government should spend $100T a year.  If not, why not?

Online Adam^

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2094 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 04:05:02 PM »
It's a problem because it could end the current ideology driving our economics. That's it. It's okay to pump money in when it's needed, but they still want to control what counts as 'needed'. For instance, there's a good argument made by Blyth, Mazzucato and their type of economist, that the stimulus going on now should have been done instead of the austerity economics we got ten years ago.

But, generally right leaning outlets, don't want that to become the common consensus as it rips up everything they preach about Labour and the left not being reliable with the finances of a nation. There's no independent outlet or even what would be considered a centrist economist arguing against this. It's just the right wing that is.

Read Mazzucato's most recent piece in the FT. I know you asked for someone that understands economics, and I'd be lying if I said I truly did, but it's more about who you follow and read and she's perfect. Blyth doesn't write enough, but his videos, podcasts etc are just as valuable. As cynical as it sounds, our current economic model is being held together by the power structures still in place, the old school politicians that still wish it was the 90s don't want to accept the change required. Keep people talking about balancing the books, living within our means etc, and not actually understand the basics of economics.

I'm a big fan of Blyth will read the others.

My understanding (might be complete bollocks) is that the debt isn't an issue for the following reasons
1) We print our own money, so we can never run out of it
2) Interest rates are super low levels, also who the f*** are we paying money, to invent more money - doesn't make sense
3) Inflation is the worry due to all this money printing, but billions (maybe trillions) have been pumped in as QE but inflation is still pretty low
4) If the govt is spending money, building things paying wages etc, this money is circulated in to the economy. People buy stuff and people pay taxes (on wages and the stuff they buy), so the govt is getting back a % of any cash it spends regardless

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new-moment-explained

This is an intersting article on the alternative Modern monetary theory, though I can't see those in power going this route without a fight

I'll preface this by saying government debt is not inherently bad.

There are several reasons to limit government borrowing/quantitative easing:

A: Crowding Out Effect
B: Worries about paying interest on the debt preventing spending on other things
c: Inflation (through debt monetization)
D: Government intervention through spending can lead to inefficient outcomes and deadweight loss
E: The negative effects tend to be regressive... property owners are less impacted by inflation than renters, for example
F: External debt holders will be less willing to buy your debt if you devalue your currency - it makes their investments worthless
G: Just as a thought experiment, ask yourself if your government should spend $100T a year.  If not, why not?


Many of those make sense, though I'd argue that the inflation side of things and the debt repayment aren't a big issue at the present as both are very low and have been for some time.

Point B is interesting as yes if you have a load of interest repayment to make (side point who are they paying this interest to?) you have less to spend on schools etc, though you could argue that spending that money up front in the first place could help to negate the need for some future spending.
Point D, again it depends what you are spending it on, I'd argue spending on infrastructure and investment (loans/grants) to businesses would make a lot of sense in the current climate.
Point F, makes sense and I'm not suggesting we devalue it, just that huge sums have been pumped in and there have been very few negative impacts.
Point G, thats a lot of money but again what are they spending it on? If they are spending it on things that improve society then it would make sense. You need a balance, not the current thinking where they seem determined to cut spending and cutting taxes.

Offline bobloblaw

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2095 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 04:17:46 PM »
It's a problem because it could end the current ideology driving our economics. That's it. It's okay to pump money in when it's needed, but they still want to control what counts as 'needed'. For instance, there's a good argument made by Blyth, Mazzucato and their type of economist, that the stimulus going on now should have been done instead of the austerity economics we got ten years ago.

But, generally right leaning outlets, don't want that to become the common consensus as it rips up everything they preach about Labour and the left not being reliable with the finances of a nation. There's no independent outlet or even what would be considered a centrist economist arguing against this. It's just the right wing that is.

Read Mazzucato's most recent piece in the FT. I know you asked for someone that understands economics, and I'd be lying if I said I truly did, but it's more about who you follow and read and she's perfect. Blyth doesn't write enough, but his videos, podcasts etc are just as valuable. As cynical as it sounds, our current economic model is being held together by the power structures still in place, the old school politicians that still wish it was the 90s don't want to accept the change required. Keep people talking about balancing the books, living within our means etc, and not actually understand the basics of economics.

I'm a big fan of Blyth will read the others.

My understanding (might be complete bollocks) is that the debt isn't an issue for the following reasons
1) We print our own money, so we can never run out of it
2) Interest rates are super low levels, also who the f*** are we paying money, to invent more money - doesn't make sense
3) Inflation is the worry due to all this money printing, but billions (maybe trillions) have been pumped in as QE but inflation is still pretty low
4) If the govt is spending money, building things paying wages etc, this money is circulated in to the economy. People buy stuff and people pay taxes (on wages and the stuff they buy), so the govt is getting back a % of any cash it spends regardless

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new-moment-explained

This is an intersting article on the alternative Modern monetary theory, though I can't see those in power going this route without a fight

I'll preface this by saying government debt is not inherently bad.

There are several reasons to limit government borrowing/quantitative easing:

A: Crowding Out Effect
B: Worries about paying interest on the debt preventing spending on other things
c: Inflation (through debt monetization)
D: Government intervention through spending can lead to inefficient outcomes and deadweight loss
E: The negative effects tend to be regressive... property owners are less impacted by inflation than renters, for example
F: External debt holders will be less willing to buy your debt if you devalue your currency - it makes their investments worthless
G: Just as a thought experiment, ask yourself if your government should spend $100T a year.  If not, why not?


Many of those make sense, though I'd argue that the inflation side of things and the debt repayment aren't a big issue at the present as both are very low and have been for some time.

Point B is interesting as yes if you have a load of interest repayment to make (side point who are they paying this interest to?) you have less to spend on schools etc, though you could argue that spending that money up front in the first place could help to negate the need for some future spending.
Point D, again it depends what you are spending it on, I'd argue spending on infrastructure and investment (loans/grants) to businesses would make a lot of sense in the current climate.
Point F, makes sense and I'm not suggesting we devalue it, just that huge sums have been pumped in and there have been very few negative impacts.
Point G, thats a lot of money but again what are they spending it on? If they are spending it on things that improve society then it would make sense. You need a balance, not the current thinking where they seem determined to cut spending and cutting taxes.

The obvious question is "how much debt is too much."  The MMT argument is that no debt/spending is too much.  It is why basically every economist, from the right to Paul Krugman thinks it is flawed. http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/modern-monetary-theory/

Point F for example: you may not be suggesting it, but supporters of MMT are.  Just google Rashida Tlaib and million dollar coin.

Offline GeordieDazzler

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2096 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 04:18:57 PM »

Offline Ian W

  • General Member
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2097 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 06:52:38 PM »
Nope.

I’m shocked you come across as very well read

I am, Harry Potter is not a requirement for that :lol:

Offline Super Duper Branko Strupar

  • General Member
  • Leeds Leeds Leeds
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2098 on: Saturday 23 May 2020, 07:10:38 PM »
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: UK Politics - Generation Tory
« Reply #2099 on: Sunday 24 May 2020, 12:41:35 AM »
Nope.

I’m shocked you come across as very well read

I am, Harry Potter is not a requirement for that :lol:

I was trying to think of a nice way to say that for ages :lol:.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.