Author Topic: Joelinton  (Read 134901 times)

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Offline TRon

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3050 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 04:54:04 PM »
What does he do well? Scoring goals? No. Holding the ball up and linking the play? No. Conviction when in on goal? No. Working hard for the team? No.

Let's be realistic. Last season, he had 3-4 good moments in a WHOLE f***ing season.  :lol:




His link up play isn't bad mostly, think you are wrong there, it will look better when we start passing the ball to feet. I think he works pretty hard as well, covers plenty of ground during a game, I think this is another myth which is easy to latch onto.

He's not a goal scorer though, I don't think he has a striker's movement, that has been my main criticism of him. The same can be said of Carroll these days as well tbh.

Offline mighty__mag

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3051 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 05:02:38 PM »
:lol: nah, don't think so.

Klopp likes him and has already used a player we got relegated with previously to go on and win the league, and so knows we specialise in mismanaging players.

Should try and swap him for Brewster or Origi who are both available and are more in line with what Bruce prefers.

Dont use that as an excuse though? McClaren mismanaged every player that season. Thauvin went back to france played extremely well and called up to the national side. In reference to Gini we used him advanced and he scored 11 goals very good return, I'd agree he's doing a job at Liverpool, but it's nothing major or anything to do with how well he's suddenly been managed, he was a good player to start with, and he joined a very good side, Klopp has used him where he sees useful for Liverpool.

I don't think its mismanaged etc like you say, I just dont think we're the right club for him (Joelinton), sometimes that's just the way it is.



Wijnaldum is a very good example actually, he was getting pelters on here, then he joined a club in the same league and has won the title and the European cup. Now obviously Joelinton isn't in the same league as Gini, but we do have some fans with an ugly attitude towards certain players and they are usually of a certain type.

Yes but in fairness, those fans dont actually hate Joelinton or want him to fail, they just get annoyed if he's selected as it's like playing with 10 men.

Why would anyone be pleased about that? But equally I blame Bruce for selecting him consistently, but I'm of the opinion it was forced last season perhaps from above, and we may see less of Joelinton this season.

Personally I dont have an issue with the player, but given we had a fully fit squad to choose each week he would never make my starting line up because there are better players than him already here.
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Offline TRon

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3052 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 05:30:05 PM »
:lol: nah, don't think so.

Klopp likes him and has already used a player we got relegated with previously to go on and win the league, and so knows we specialise in mismanaging players.

Should try and swap him for Brewster or Origi who are both available and are more in line with what Bruce prefers.

Dont use that as an excuse though? McClaren mismanaged every player that season. Thauvin went back to france played extremely well and called up to the national side. In reference to Gini we used him advanced and he scored 11 goals very good return, I'd agree he's doing a job at Liverpool, but it's nothing major or anything to do with how well he's suddenly been managed, he was a good player to start with, and he joined a very good side, Klopp has used him where he sees useful for Liverpool.

I don't think its mismanaged etc like you say, I just dont think we're the right club for him (Joelinton), sometimes that's just the way it is.



Wijnaldum is a very good example actually, he was getting pelters on here, then he joined a club in the same league and has won the title and the European cup. Now obviously Joelinton isn't in the same league as Gini, but we do have some fans with an ugly attitude towards certain players and they are usually of a certain type.

Yes but in fairness, those fans dont actually hate Joelinton or want him to fail, they just get annoyed if he's selected as it's like playing with 10 men.

Why would anyone be pleased about that? But equally I blame Bruce for selecting him consistently, but I'm of the opinion it was forced last season perhaps from above, and we may see less of Joelinton this season.

Personally I dont have an issue with the player, but given we had a fully fit squad to choose each week he would never make my starting line up because there are better players than him already here.

He's not going to be starting as much this season, and he really shouldn't have been starting that many games last season but as you said, there wasn't really any other options  due to Gayle and Carroll being sofa bound for most of it. He played in a cup game yesterday when we made 10 changes, and I watched the game and he was getting singled out for abuse, and I don't think he was that bad in the first half. He actually got worse in the second for hold up play.


Offline LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3053 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 07:20:54 PM »
I doubt people are basing their assessment on one game. More likely one season. I'd love him to come good but even when he had played off another striker or on the left he's looked mediocre at best. Prove us all wrong Joelinton, we'd be very happy if you did.
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Offline The Ideal Crash

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3054 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 07:41:28 PM »
A general consensus is beginning to form I see, and yeah could well be right.

He’s not doing himself any favours in the chances he’s getting.

I would however like to see him play in our strongest side, as part of it, not coming on to replace someone who’s doing a good job. At least give him that chance before he’s flogged off somewhere.

A sort of no.10 role, either centre, left or right. Just see what he can do on the ball when there are other players running ahead of him creating space.

He’s not a hold up player..

Offline Unbelievable!

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3055 on: Wednesday 16 September 2020, 11:09:15 PM »
A general consensus is beginning to form I see, and yeah could well be right.

He’s not doing himself any favours in the chances he’s getting.

I would however like to see him play in our strongest side, as part of it, not coming on to replace someone who’s doing a good job. At least give him that chance before he’s flogged off somewhere.

A sort of no.10 role, either centre, left or right. Just see what he can do on the ball when there are other players running ahead of him creating space.

He’s not a hold up player..

Does . not . compute

Offline The Ideal Crash

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3056 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:16:44 AM »
A general consensus is beginning to form I see, and yeah could well be right.

He’s not doing himself any favours in the chances he’s getting.

I would however like to see him play in our strongest side, as part of it, not coming on to replace someone who’s doing a good job. At least give him that chance before he’s flogged off somewhere.

A sort of no.10 role, either centre, left or right. Just see what he can do on the ball when there are other players running ahead of him creating space.

He’s not a hold up player..

Does . not . compute

I shall simplify. Playing with the likes of ASM, Wilson, Fraser and or Almiron around him. Especially Wilson..

I still think he can come good.. just needs to be given a chance with the best players around him.

So, try this.. if it doesn’t work then we’ll know 100%.


Offline KaKa

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3057 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:33:00 AM »
Agree with you and would love to see that also. Almost certain we never will.

He'll keep playing Carroll ahead of him, who has been even less of a goal threat since he came back.
I'll be watching the games, and I'll be talking about the teams. If it's a disaster it will be quite humorous and exactly what Mike Ashley deserves and to be honest I'll quite enjoy it. I am totally indifferent to results and the team success going forward.

Now, in certain games should the team do well, I will be happy more for the players, because I feel bad for them mostly, and I still want to see some of them do well. I will still feel comfortable giving the team credit when they do well. I just don't care about any outcome at this point and none of my money goes into anything to do with Mike Ashley's operations.

Offline The Ideal Crash

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3058 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:43:48 AM »
Agree with you and would love to see that also. Almost certain we never will.

He'll keep playing Carroll ahead of him, who has been even less of a goal threat since he came back.

There’s a decent YouTube video explaining his lack of goals and it makes perfect sense.

He shone in a team playing a high pressing game. Actually did his best work playing in a 2 up front.

You have to blame the scouting for this one, he’s clearly a good player doing what he’s good at which is precisely why the scouts recommended him.

But completely ignoring that we’d never be set up in the same way as Hoffenheim and in keeping mostly the same set up as what Rafa had, we’d be struggling to get 30% possession in games.

It’s absolute madness that the coaching setup and scouts are so out of sync to have missed something like that?

I think he’s been thrown under the bus

Offline KaKa

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3059 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 01:16:16 AM »
It's actually depressing man. I saw the video you mentioned.

There are also numerous scouting articles from his time in Germany that talk about the type of player he is and even some talking about what Newcastle would be getting and how to get the best of him after we had bought him.

They are all very positive and speak of the qualities he can bring in the right setup and of his big potential to get even better. I can only imagine how baffled they are in Germany at our incompetence.

It's funny because the same thing is happening to an even better player at West Ham, in Haller, who a lot of people on here wanted last summer. He is getting destroyed by another PFM in Moyes, who is playing a 30 year old converted winger upfront instead of him and then complaining about needing funds for players.

The same guy had Felipe Anderson and Lanzini on the bench while playing a midfield of Rice, Noble and Soucek against us. Three holding midfielders. Against a Newcastle United side that hasn't exactly been a swash buckling attacking outfit under Bruce.

It's just so pathetic really :lol:

I'll be watching the games, and I'll be talking about the teams. If it's a disaster it will be quite humorous and exactly what Mike Ashley deserves and to be honest I'll quite enjoy it. I am totally indifferent to results and the team success going forward.

Now, in certain games should the team do well, I will be happy more for the players, because I feel bad for them mostly, and I still want to see some of them do well. I will still feel comfortable giving the team credit when they do well. I just don't care about any outcome at this point and none of my money goes into anything to do with Mike Ashley's operations.

Offline Kanji

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3060 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 03:04:57 AM »
Almiron will score, assist and work better for the team in that role you guys envision for Joelinton. I wish it wasn’t so but it’s fact. It’s pointless to say anything else because the player and manager are not suited for one another and when given the chance to just make a proper play or show something - Jo simply hasn’t gotten the job done or shown any glimpses he will here.
N U F C

Offline mrmojorisin75

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3061 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 04:46:07 AM »
I didn't see the Blackburn game that's provoked a lot of discussion but unless I'm mistaken he's been played up front again in a team had around 35% possession at home to a team from a lower division. That about right?
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Offline Kanji

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3062 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 10:33:52 AM »
And did f*** all but yes.
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Offline samptime29

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3063 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 10:39:49 AM »
We really saying Joelinton should be in the team ahead of Almiron?

Offline Newcastle Fan

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3064 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 10:40:57 AM »
We really saying Joelinton should be in the team ahead of Almiron?

I think its ridiculous to even have him ahead of Carroll is twice the striker he is :lol:

Offline sadnesstan

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3065 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 11:18:39 AM »
It's actually depressing man. I saw the video you mentioned.

There are also numerous scouting articles from his time in Germany that talk about the type of player he is and even some talking about what Newcastle would be getting and how to get the best of him after we had bought him.

They are all very positive and speak of the qualities he can bring in the right setup and of his big potential to get even better. I can only imagine how baffled they are in Germany at our incompetence.

It's funny because the same thing is happening to an even better player at West Ham, in Haller, who a lot of people on here wanted last summer. He is getting destroyed by another PFM in Moyes, who is playing a 30 year old converted winger upfront instead of him and then complaining about needing funds for players.

The same guy had Felipe Anderson and Lanzini on the bench while playing a midfield of Rice, Noble and Soucek against us. Three holding midfielders. Against a Newcastle United side that hasn't exactly been a swash buckling attacking outfit under Bruce.

It's just so pathetic really :lol:

The German's also said buying a volkswagon would save the planet.

Don't trust their sales patter one bit.

Offline The Ideal Crash

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3066 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 11:21:31 AM »
We really saying Joelinton should be in the team ahead of Almiron?

No I’m not saying that, I just would like to see him played in a position and to his strengths, being in the same starting 11 as Wilson, Fraser, ASM etc.. players who will make runs and create space for him.

Just lumping the ball up to him or hoofing it into the channels and expecting him to do something with it is not fair on the lad.

I think the way ASM, Almiron or even Fraser play, they’ll need to be rotated to keep them injury free so there’s definitely a place for the lad.

Offline Unbelievable!

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3067 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 11:51:28 AM »
Almiron will score, assist and work better for the team in that role you guys envision for Joelinton. I wish it wasn’t so but it’s fact. It’s pointless to say anything else because the player and manager are not suited for one another and when given the chance to just make a proper play or show something - Jo simply hasn’t gotten the job done or shown any glimpses he will here.

It’s as simple as that :thup:

Our best team doesn’t have Joelinton in it. You might as well argue that we should have put the ginger Pirlo in the team with the remaining best players to get the best out of him. You have to do what’s best for the team, not what’s best for an individual player. What’s best for the team is Joelinton sitting on the bench and more capable players out on the pitch.


Offline Conjo

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3068 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:04:28 PM »
Almiron will score, assist and work better for the team in that role you guys envision for Joelinton. I wish it wasn’t so but it’s fact. It’s pointless to say anything else because the player and manager are not suited for one another and when given the chance to just make a proper play or show something - Jo simply hasn’t gotten the job done or shown any glimpses he will here.

It’s as simple as that :thup:

Our best team doesn’t have Joelinton in it. You might as well argue that we should have put the ginger Pirlo in the team with the remaining best players to get the best out of him. You have to do what’s best for the team, not what’s best for an individual player. What’s best for the team is Joelinton sitting on the bench and more capable players out on the pitch.



I don't think anyone is "envisioning" Joelinton in that role at the expense of Almiron. However some want to see what Joelinton can add to the team in such a role, as he's never been given the opportunity to play in the role he had success with in Germany. Don't see what is so outrageous about that. ASM/Almiron/Fraser are all interchangable so there's definitely room to add Joelinton for a few matches to give him a chance to prove himself.
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Online Judge Holden

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3069 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:07:25 PM »
Just cut our losses & flog the b****** if we can find a buyer.

Online Nobody

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3070 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 12:12:30 PM »
#teamDisco

Offline Rod

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3071 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 03:04:43 PM »
Almiron will score, assist and work better for the team in that role you guys envision for Joelinton. I wish it wasn’t so but it’s fact. It’s pointless to say anything else because the player and manager are not suited for one another and when given the chance to just make a proper play or show something - Jo simply hasn’t gotten the job done or shown any glimpses he will here.

It’s as simple as that :thup:

Our best team doesn’t have Joelinton in it. You might as well argue that we should have put the ginger Pirlo in the team with the remaining best players to get the best out of him. You have to do what’s best for the team, not what’s best for an individual player. What’s best for the team is Joelinton sitting on the bench and more capable players out on the pitch.
I wouldn't even have him on the bench.  He contributes nothing at all.  That's  nothing at all.  He's hopeless, clueless and useless.  Get rid!

Offline KaKa

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3072 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 03:14:04 PM »
PFM ALERT!!!
I'll be watching the games, and I'll be talking about the teams. If it's a disaster it will be quite humorous and exactly what Mike Ashley deserves and to be honest I'll quite enjoy it. I am totally indifferent to results and the team success going forward.

Now, in certain games should the team do well, I will be happy more for the players, because I feel bad for them mostly, and I still want to see some of them do well. I will still feel comfortable giving the team credit when they do well. I just don't care about any outcome at this point and none of my money goes into anything to do with Mike Ashley's operations.

Offline Unbelievable!

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3073 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 03:21:45 PM »
Almiron will score, assist and work better for the team in that role you guys envision for Joelinton. I wish it wasn’t so but it’s fact. It’s pointless to say anything else because the player and manager are not suited for one another and when given the chance to just make a proper play or show something - Jo simply hasn’t gotten the job done or shown any glimpses he will here.

It’s as simple as that :thup:

Our best team doesn’t have Joelinton in it. You might as well argue that we should have put the ginger Pirlo in the team with the remaining best players to get the best out of him. You have to do what’s best for the team, not what’s best for an individual player. What’s best for the team is Joelinton sitting on the bench and more capable players out on the pitch.



I don't think anyone is "envisioning" Joelinton in that role at the expense of Almiron. However some want to see what Joelinton can add to the team in such a role, as he's never been given the opportunity to play in the role he had success with in Germany. Don't see what is so outrageous about that. ASM/Almiron/Fraser are all interchangable so there's definitely room to add Joelinton for a few matches to give him a chance to prove himself.

There’s literally a post that Kanji’s post was in response to with a team lineup envisioning just that. The point is that we have better options, that you would need to drop, for the position where you might get the best out of Joelinton.

Offline Stifmeister

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Re: Joelinton
« Reply #3074 on: Thursday 17 September 2020, 06:53:53 PM »
Sell him as soon as possible. Wilson is much better