Author Topic: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder  (Read 267037 times)

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Offline Troll

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9325 on: Saturday 17 October 2020, 09:50:48 PM »
Just look at what you've done!



Offline Si

  • General Member
  • I dont handle change well.
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9326 on: Saturday 17 October 2020, 10:06:04 PM »


Just look at what you've done!



God damn it Jim I'm a Newcastle fan not a trade negotiator.
Bearings Straight!

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • Newcastle
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9327 on: Saturday 17 October 2020, 10:06:14 PM »

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9328 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 12:38:11 AM »


Just look at what you've done!



God damn it Jim I'm a Newcastle fan not a trade negotiator.

It’s tax Jim, but not as we know it.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9329 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 12:39:33 AM »
Ye cannae change the laws of Britain.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline leffe186

  • General Member
  • Akron, Ohio
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9330 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 12:40:52 AM »
I’m here all week. Try the food replicator.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline geordiesteve710

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9331 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 01:24:38 PM »
[emoji38] as I recall, the only reason I posted in the first place was an attempt to demonstrate that it wasn't only simpletons, racists and old folk (or all of the above) who voted to leave, which is how the national narrative shaped up for a while.

I could have just said nowt (and probably should since I'd watched the Scotland referendum thread unfold) but for a while I believed what leffe posted up the page, that it was important to introduce new perspectives and positions to a thread which contained only angry accord. I don't believe that so much any more, it counted for f*** all and just made everybody even angrier [emoji38]


:lol: Fair enough. I just don't think we can afford to not talk about this stuff. There will always be people who argue in bad faith, and people who just don't see things the same way, and you're not likely to change minds there. But it's important to me to see different perspectives and look at my own thoughts as well. I've always been fairly clever but have also always tended to avoid conflict, so I really need to work on my political knowledge and debate skills. To be pompous as f***, I do think it's important for us to model the behaviour we want in others.

I find FB f***ing intolerable for this stuff, but N-O actually considerably more thoughtful and considered.

It's a societal thing as much as anything, people seem to want to debate things solely with the intent of "winning" and changing the minds of others. This very rarely works and you end up with one if not two sides getting more and more frustrated with each other for not changing their minds. There's very rarely any attempt to understand the reasoning/priorities/position of the other side. Maybe that's down to the rise of electronic communications where it's easier to be abrupt/dismissive/an all round dick to someone than if you were sat next to them in the pub?

In terms of this thread it became tiresome watching the same people demand that leave voters state their reasons for voting leave just to pull these reasons to pieces with the process repeated every time a piece of news broke.

Getting back on topic, my instinct is that Boris is bluffing. He wants a concession on the regulatory alignment/level playing field stuff. That would be a massive "win" for him, but I can't see the EU giving too much on that. If he doesn't get what he wants I could see him getting a concession elsewhere (fishing perhaps??) then spinning it as a great success and signing the deal anyway.
Log on to the N-O forum.
Check the transfer thread in the vague hope we might be going to spend some money, get p*ssed off.
Move to the Mike Ashley thread because I'm p*ssed off, get more p*ssed off.
Come to this thread to cheer myself up a bit.
Leave.
Repeat.

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9332 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 01:46:46 PM »
Getting back on topic, my instinct is that Boris is bluffing. He wants a concession on the regulatory alignment/level playing field stuff. That would be a massive "win" for him, but I can't see the EU giving too much on that. If he doesn't get what he wants I could see him getting a concession elsewhere (fishing perhaps??) then spinning it as a great success and signing the deal anyway.

Fishing rights is one of the few areas where the no-deal fallback is in favour of the UK (it doesn't benefit the industry, as they would face barriers to sell into the EU market) and it's a good headline grabber about territorial sovereignty. The EU have already moved quite a way on the matter- just as the UK have on LPF.

Trying to predict this is impossible given the actors involved, but I think you are right in that there will be a huge deal made over here of an EU concession on fishing which allows the UK to retain control of access to the waters (but with EU states paying for the access the currently enjoy, to be renegotiated in a few years when it will be somebody else's problem). Meanwhile the UK will soften their position on state aid and LPF which is much more boring and technical and doesn't grab the headlines like fishing, even though it's far more important.

That may be hopeful on my count. But allowing the current Tories free reign to subsidies their mates companies with tax revenues- as they have done with the PPE contracts- doesn't bear thinking about.

Offline Tomato Deuce

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9333 on: Sunday 18 October 2020, 02:08:42 PM »
Wonder how Toondave is getting on.

Terribly I hope. He once posted an actual drawing from the BNP on here. Can't beleieve he wasnt banned

Trump supporter, too. Dickhead.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9334 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:48:19 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
  • London, UK
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9335 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:51:38 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

I don't think I've seen them report from the talks without some amount of 'spin' going on.
Apparently there'll be many more jobs, increased wages and more housing.
Otherwise what was the point?

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9336 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:53:27 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

The EU can't give a Canada style agreement because we are right next to the EU, not 2,500 miles away.  Otherwise it would be a terrible deal for them.

The fact is, we are negotiating against the biggest trading bloc in the world and we believe we are at equal with them when we are not.  Many expected the EU unity to breakdown over these talks which hasn't happened.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9337 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:54:54 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

I don't think I've seen them report from the talks without some amount of 'spin' going on.
Apparently there'll be many more jobs, increased wages and more housing.
Otherwise what was the point?

Idk man, I'm kind of so sick of it all. I'm just interested to see if they're just outright lying as I expect or if there's some basis to it.

I keep hearing bits about "fishing" but what could the problem be there? The EU can't expect to demand anything wrt our waters and us vice versa, so what's the issue, tariffs?

Also the level playing field was agreed to afaik so we can't be trying to renege on that.

Guess the devil might be in the detail and nuances but should that be enough for this latest tantrum?
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9338 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:56:29 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

The EU can't give a Canada style agreement because we are right next to the EU, not 2,500 miles away.  Otherwise it would be a terrible deal for them.

The fact is, we are negotiating against the biggest trading bloc in the world and we believe we are at equal with them when we are not.  Many expected the EU unity to breakdown over these talks which hasn't happened.

In what specific ways would it be terrible for them nees? I'm sure you're right would just like to know why.

In that case we're demanding something unrealistic then, which tracks for these t***s.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9339 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 08:59:06 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

The EU can't give a Canada style agreement because we are right next to the EU, not 2,500 miles away.  Otherwise it would be a terrible deal for them.

The fact is, we are negotiating against the biggest trading bloc in the world and we believe we are at equal with them when we are not.  Many expected the EU unity to breakdown over these talks which hasn't happened.

In what specific ways would it be terrible for them nees? I'm sure you're right would just like to know why.

In that case we're demanding something unrealistic then, which tracks for these t***s.

Because it gives tariff free access to the common market without following most of the EU's rules.  That would make the UK a dumping ground for trade etc by other countries and would damage EU competiveness.  It's fine for markets that are 1000's miles away as that limits the type of trade that can be done.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9340 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 09:02:53 AM »
So, see this Tory narrative of the EU being unreasonable in trade talks etc. - is there a breakdown of what this actually entails and the truth of it anywhere? Obviously the Tories they wheel out never explain why this is in detail.

Why wouldn't the EU give us a "Canada style deal" unless we wanted something included that doesn't already exist in the current Canada deal?

Is that about the size of it, we're still wanting our cake and to eat it?

I would be amazed if it was anything else.

The EU can't give a Canada style agreement because we are right next to the EU, not 2,500 miles away.  Otherwise it would be a terrible deal for them.

The fact is, we are negotiating against the biggest trading bloc in the world and we believe we are at equal with them when we are not.  Many expected the EU unity to breakdown over these talks which hasn't happened.

In what specific ways would it be terrible for them nees? I'm sure you're right would just like to know why.

In that case we're demanding something unrealistic then, which tracks for these t***s.

Because it gives tariff free access to the common market without following most of the EU's rules.  That would make the UK a dumping ground for trade etc by other countries and would damage EU competiveness.  It's fine for markets that are 1000's miles away as that limits the type of trade that can be done.

Ah so nothing more complex than that then, fucksake :lol:

Had assumed there was something more nuanced, but then we are dealing with liars, conmen and crooks so shouldn't be surprised.

Wonder why the media are letting them all over everything claiming it's all the EUs fault then... :whistle:
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9341 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 09:10:26 AM »
It's complete non-starter, but gives UK opportunity to say EU are being unreasonable.  The French are probably being the hardest in the talks.

Offline AyeDubbleYoo

  • General Member
  • Ian W
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9342 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:18:21 AM »
The EU being unreasonable is going to be very little consolation mind you.

Offline Slim

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9343 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:26:12 AM »


Online Rafalove

  • General Member
  • Was summerof69
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9344 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:27:31 AM »
We knew they would be unreasonable though. It’s no excuse. They were unreasonable with Greece over bailouts.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9345 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:31:43 AM »
what, exactly, are they being unreasonable about though? :lol:

is not giving us exactly what we want because it goes against all the principles of their common market being unreasonable?
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Online Rafalove

  • General Member
  • Was summerof69
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9346 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:33:05 AM »
That’s a fair point aswell.

Offline gbandit

  • General Member
  • Brighton
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9347 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:33:54 AM »
It’s such a f***ing nonsense. If you vote to leave a large union and know you will need to negotiate with them over a huge number of things, you know you’re going to get shafted as you are only one small piece of the Union. Any imbecile who uses the argument that we have been unfairly treated when we get a s*** deal just wants to play the victim so they don’t have to accept they made a bad decision in voting to harm their own interests

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9348 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:34:15 AM »
There probably areas where the EU are being a bit unreasonable but it's to be expected, they hold most of the cards.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9349 on: Monday 19 October 2020, 10:39:16 AM »
I don't know how gullible you'd have to be to believe that in a negotiation involving Johnson and Cummings, a conman and a sociopath, it's the other party who are being unreasonable.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.