Author Topic: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder  (Read 255565 times)

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Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9050 on: Thursday 10 September 2020, 10:26:42 PM »
Pissing off Scotland really helps the Tories, since it ensures the SNP will win every seat right? Meaning Labour can’t get enough to win in Westminster.
Do you think the Nats (Scots and Welsh) would work with Labour to keep out the Tories if there were a hung parliament ?
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9051 on: Thursday 10 September 2020, 10:41:16 PM »
Not in a coalition unless we offered a second referendum. They've made that pretty clear a few times, but could and probably would do things on a deal by deal basis as a minority government or whatever. I'd just give them the second referendum though, Scotland's off.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9052 on: Thursday 10 September 2020, 10:51:40 PM »
Not in a coalition unless we offered a second referendum. They've made that pretty clear a few times, but could and probably would do things on a deal by deal basis as a minority government or whatever. I'd just give them the second referendum though, Scotland's off.
Labour would know it would have less chance if Scotland left the Union (Not even so much of a majority themselves but stopping a tory majority), so are unlikely to allow a referendum.

If the Tories were to be thinking that way they'd let them have another referedum straight after Brexit and get rid.

Personally I think they should be allowed another referendum, there's more grounds now than there was then.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9053 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 12:06:42 AM »
No issue with a referendum being offered, but on the basis they help sort changes rollback the mess of the last 10+ years.

Offline madras

  • Philosoraptor
  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9054 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 12:09:46 AM »
No issue with a referendum being offered, but on the basis they help sort changes rollback the mess of the last 10+ years.
How can they help and why should they help anyone except themselves for the s*** they are in ?
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9055 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 07:56:06 AM »
SNP have also always been clear they'd be happy to work with a cooperative UK government. They've just never had one.

If Labour want ANY chance in Scotland, they need to move to accepting a referendum and allow their party members to drift whatever way on the issue. They have lost the hardcore unionist vote, it never really had it actually. It needs the left leaning votes that disappeared to the SNP over the last 15 years. They will never win them back by shouting down Scotland, which is essentially what these people do. That's who they lost, they never lost a large unionist vote, but a left leaning segment of the electorate that went indy. To win Scotland, they must accept indy. We've been doing the same thing for 10 years and the results just get worse and worse.

Eventually the SNP will be kicked from power, if only due to pure fatigue. Labour need to be ready to step in, but I'm sure they'll still be having arguments how it's better to be in the f***ing UK like a bunch of blind drunks.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Disco

  • General Member
  • Newcastle
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9056 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 09:53:00 AM »
Problem is if Labour said anything remotely positive about Scotland and/or independence, they'll get absolutely crucified in the English press than normal. Not only does it feed their narrative perfectly that Labour hate England and God's chosen people but it further feeds the culture war. I think you severely misunderstand how much angry English people despise the SNP, Scottish people in general and motivated by bitterness towards anyone who is't their own demographic love the idea of the Blues denying them what they want.

So long as the libs (Non-English, Labour, remoaners, public sector, non-whites) are being owned and they're 'winning' they're happy.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9057 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 09:58:49 AM »
I think we refuse to accept these people were never going to vote Labour at all. Let them fume. We can still win power whilst the Daily Mail class fumes and spits. It's the middle ground we're after now, and increasingly I've not seen many English commentators making a positive case for staying in the Union. And more people in England want Scotland to go than ever before, from both sides. Those that sympathise and those that just want them to f*** off, last I saw anyway.

EDIT: Double checked that, and it's true. More English than ever before are content for Scotland to get independence. Of course, the majority still want them to stay, but flat out support amongst even the English is growing.
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9058 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 10:01:05 AM »
Scottish independence is a critical step in the death of Empire mentality. Once England accepts its position as a middle-sized country which has the capability to punch above its weight but is no superpower, only then will we actually improve as a country.

The Tory hangup on state aid seems ad odds with their traditional viewpoint- but if left unfettered will give even greater scope for friends and allies of the executive (not necessarily of the party) to be awarded well-padded state contracts. And then you have the possibility of a state-industrial complex whereby those who look kindly upon the executive are favoured in their 'new and bold innovations' allowing them to put critics and dissidents out of the market. Employees of the 'winners' should remember on which side their bread is buttered when it comes to political utterances. It's a wonderful recipe for wide-scale corruption.

Online r0cafella

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9059 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 10:11:28 AM »
The state aid thing is Cummings.

He wants to fund the UK’a very own Google.
United we stand, divided we fall.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9060 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 10:19:22 AM »
I think we refuse to accept these people were never going to vote Labour at all. Let them fume. We can still win power whilst the Daily Mail class fumes and spits. It's the middle ground we're after now, and increasingly I've not seen many English commentators making a positive case for staying in the Union. And more people in England want Scotland to go than ever before, from both sides. Those that sympathise and those that just want them to f*** off, last I saw anyway.

EDIT: Double checked that, and it's true. More English than ever before are content for Scotland to get independence. Of course, the majority still want them to stay, but flat out support amongst even the English is growing.

If the Scot's want independence then I want it for them. The important thing is we maintain a positive relationship. None of this aggression that we've had with the EU.


Offline kingkerouac

  • General Member
  • London, UK
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9061 on: Friday 11 September 2020, 03:17:42 PM »
Problem is if Labour said anything remotely positive about Scotland and/or independence, they'll get absolutely crucified in the foreign-owned, English press than normal. Not only does it feed their narrative perfectly that Labour hate England and God's chosen people but it further feeds the culture war. I think you severely misunderstand how much angry English people despise the SNP, Scottish people in general and motivated by bitterness towards anyone who is't their own demographic love the idea of the Blues denying them what they want.

So long as the libs (Non-English, Labour, remoaners, public sector, non-whites) are being owned and they're 'winning' they're happy.
Fixed it.

Offline TheHoob

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9062 on: Sunday 13 September 2020, 09:22:44 PM »


lol

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9063 on: Sunday 13 September 2020, 09:24:31 PM »
State aid should be less of an issue now- we've already conceded an EU-approved regime to Japan!

[Edit... Hoob beat me to it!]

Offline Varadi

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9064 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 01:32:02 PM »
Ed Miliband standing in for Starmer in the withdrawal bill debate today - hope he gets stuck right in!

Offline AyeDubbleYoo

  • General Member
  • Ian W
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9065 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 03:05:42 PM »
Love a bit of Ed.

Offline Matt

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9066 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 03:30:39 PM »
Looking forward to some chaos.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9067 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 05:21:50 PM »
Ed is having Johnson for breakfast.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline David Edgar

  • General Member
  • But it is what it is. We are where we are.
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9068 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 05:28:11 PM »
Miliband just finished off what little there was of Johnson's soul.

Offline Cf

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9069 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 05:39:15 PM »
Can't eat a bacon sandwich properly though can he?

Offline TheHoob

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9070 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 05:55:34 PM »
f***ing hell  :lol:


Offline Varadi

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9071 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 06:02:45 PM »
f***ing savage by Miliband, he's loving this :lol:

Offline Rafalove

  • General Member
  • Was summerof69
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9072 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 06:27:14 PM »
He would have been such a good prime minister.

Offline Klaus

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9073 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 06:32:13 PM »
Absolutely brutal :lol:

Offline GeordieDazzler

  • General Member
Re: Brexit 2: Brexit Harder
« Reply #9074 on: Monday 14 September 2020, 06:44:49 PM »