Author Topic: US Politics & Society  (Read 80326 times)

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Online Tomato Deuce

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3850 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:33:28 am »

Online Tomato Deuce

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3851 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:43:18 am »
In addition to being odious c***s, these people are just so goddamn stupid


Offline CFlan

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3852 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 05:25:00 am »
DeBlasio is expected to announce his candidacy tomorrow :anguish:

Offline Mike

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3853 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 06:58:59 am »
:lol: Time to peel another donation off to Liz.

Offline Troll

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3854 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 07:06:51 am »
Going to be fun in here in a year when Biden strolls to the nomination.

Offline TheHoob

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3855 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 08:02:39 am »
Saw someone describe Biden as being everything that was wrong with Clinton but with none of the positives, is that about right?  :lol: Always thought he was a decent guy (sans being like Me Tickle), albeit that view is almost entirely formed by memes.

Offline ManDoon

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3856 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:10:16 pm »

The f***ing state of this hag
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Trump will do well man. Don't know why but I really feel this will be the case. Really hope it will come to be that way.

Offline Disco

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3857 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:16:27 pm »
Got to keep them rape babies alive so they can suffer when they're born. White Jesus will judge them accordingly.

Offline Klaus

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3858 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:19:46 pm »
In addition to being odious c***s, these people are just so goddamn stupid


That is the worst pro life argument I have seen yet :lol:

Offline ManDoon

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3859 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:21:48 pm »
I guess the every life is precious doesn't extend to the death penalty
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Trump will do well man. Don't know why but I really feel this will be the case. Really hope it will come to be that way.

Offline LoveItIfWeBeatU

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3860 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 12:28:53 pm »
The f***ing state of this hag

She's doing a Nazi salute in her profile picture.
Thier is not a word. "Their" is the correct spelling.

Win, Lose or Draw. NOT "Loose"!

Offline Gottlob

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3861 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 01:59:24 pm »
The argument in favour of abortion rights should focus on two aspects: the idea that prior to a certain number of weeks, probably somewhere between 18 and 24 but at least somewhere in the second trimester, what you have isn't scientifically or morally a human being, and that a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body trumps the rights of a fetus which is neither viable nor conscious in any meaningful sense; and the fact that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions more dangerous, putting both the woman and the fetus at risk. There's even evidence that legal abortion can lower the abortion rate, at least in tandem with sex education and easy access to contraception, which are the best ways to reduce the number of abortions which take place.

From there you can move on to all sorts of hypotheticals. But when your first line of argument involves a twelve-year-old's rape babies, you've already lost, because the situation is too specific and those who are against abortion will just regard those cases, at best, as collateral damage towards a greater good.

Offline BlufPurdi

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3862 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 02:13:28 pm »
:thup:
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
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We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline YankeeToon

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3863 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 02:46:18 pm »
The argument in favour of abortion rights should focus on two aspects: the idea that prior to a certain number of weeks, probably somewhere between 18 and 24 but at least somewhere in the second trimester, what you have isn't scientifically or morally a human being, and that a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body trumps the rights of a fetus which is neither viable nor conscious in any meaningful sense; and the fact that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions more dangerous, putting both the woman and the fetus at risk. There's even evidence that legal abortion can lower the abortion rate, at least in tandem with sex education and easy access to contraception, which are the best ways to reduce the number of abortions which take place.

From there you can move on to all sorts of hypotheticals. But when your first line of argument involves a twelve-year-old's rape babies, you've already lost, because the situation is too specific and those who are against abortion will just regard those cases, at best, as collateral damage towards a greater good.

Problem is, the opposition fundamentally disagrees with point 1 and doesn't give a s*** about point 2. Mothers dying in childbirth or from back alley procedures is also acceptable collateral damage.

Offline B-more Mag

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3864 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 02:51:59 pm »
The argument in favour of abortion rights should focus on two aspects: the idea that prior to a certain number of weeks, probably somewhere between 18 and 24 but at least somewhere in the second trimester, what you have isn't scientifically or morally a human being, and that a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body trumps the rights of a fetus which is neither viable nor conscious in any meaningful sense; and the fact that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions more dangerous, putting both the woman and the fetus at risk. There's even evidence that legal abortion can lower the abortion rate, at least in tandem with sex education and easy access to contraception, which are the best ways to reduce the number of abortions which take place.

From there you can move on to all sorts of hypotheticals. But when your first line of argument involves a twelve-year-old's rape babies, you've already lost, because the situation is too specific and those who are against abortion will just regard those cases, at best, as collateral damage towards a greater good.

While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said:

1. In the current context, the issue of children being forced to bear their rapists children isn't being used as a front-line argument. It's coming up because the Alabama legislature specifically voted down an amendment to the bill which would have allowed an exception in cases of rape and incest. The battle over the general prohibition of abortion under the Alabama bill was already lost. The votes were there to pass it. The legislators opposing the bill were simply asking for an amendment to add an exception in the limited cases of rape and incest. The majority rejected it. The cruelty is the point.

2. The front-line arguments against laws prohibiting abortion are generally as you have stated them. The problem is that many Republicans do not "believe" in science--they believe in the Bible and their shitty, lying evangelical preachers--and the rest of them may understand science, but they do not give a single f***. Because, again, the cruelty is the point.

Offline loki679

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3865 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 03:25:45 pm »
I guess the every life is precious doesn't extend to the death penalty

The death penalty?  It doesn't even extend any further than birth.  Soon as they can't use that kid as a means to impose their will on women it's on its own.  Never see these c***s lobbying for increased spending on neo-natal facilities or healthcare for infants from underprivileged backgrounds.

Nope, they just care about controlling the vag, soon as that's out the way that 'life' can rot in hell for all they care.
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Online leffe186

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3866 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 04:31:20 pm »
The argument in favour of abortion rights should focus on two aspects: the idea that prior to a certain number of weeks, probably somewhere between 18 and 24 but at least somewhere in the second trimester, what you have isn't scientifically or morally a human being, and that a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body trumps the rights of a fetus which is neither viable nor conscious in any meaningful sense; and the fact that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions more dangerous, putting both the woman and the fetus at risk. There's even evidence that legal abortion can lower the abortion rate, at least in tandem with sex education and easy access to contraception, which are the best ways to reduce the number of abortions which take place.

From there you can move on to all sorts of hypotheticals. But when your first line of argument involves a twelve-year-old's rape babies, you've already lost, because the situation is too specific and those who are against abortion will just regard those cases, at best, as collateral damage towards a greater good.

Problem is, the opposition fundamentally disagrees with point 1 and doesn't give a s*** about point 2. Mothers dying in childbirth or from back alley procedures is also acceptable collateral damage.

What they said. The anti-choice side is just ignoring the first argument completely.

I've said this before, there are essentially two anti-choice groups: those who think abortion is killing babies (typically for religious reasons) and those who wish to exploit the first group to gain/consolidate power (Republicans). The argument has already been made and concluded in Roe vs Wade, with a bit of tweaking since due to changes in medical technologies. The anti-choicers lost in that instance, but have now manoeuvred their way to a position when they can bypass that discussion entirely.
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Offline Gottlob

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3867 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 07:12:19 pm »
I understand the immediate context regarding the measure that has passed in Alabama, but it has wider implications because the aim seems to be to take the matter all the way to the Supreme Court, so battles lines are being drawn and both sides are finding what resonates. And again, while I understand the context this week, there seems to be a profusion of pro-choice or abortion rights arguments that focus on the issue of rape, and particularly the rape of children.

My perspective is that to win the battle you have to stick with the headline points rather than resorting to hypotheticals, which are too specific and too easily written off to have an effect. Fundamentalists and increasingly right-wing conservatives don't believe in science, but you still emphasise and perhaps renegotiate if necessary the date at which a fetus becomes viable and meaningfully conscious or human, and you hammer home the point that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions less safe. Otherwise attempts to construct a watertight and emotionally persuasive argument on very narrow lines not only don't work, they actually tacitly give ground to the opposition, something that has been happening all the time on the left whether it's regarding abortion, immigration, etc.

Online neesy111

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3868 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 07:22:50 pm »

Offline YankeeToon

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3869 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 07:33:38 pm »
I understand the immediate context regarding the measure that has passed in Alabama, but it has wider implications because the aim seems to be to take the matter all the way to the Supreme Court, so battles lines are being drawn and both sides are finding what resonates. And again, while I understand the context this week, there seems to be a profusion of pro-choice or abortion rights arguments that focus on the issue of rape, and particularly the rape of children.

My perspective is that to win the battle you have to stick with the headline points rather than resorting to hypotheticals, which are too specific and too easily written off to have an effect. Fundamentalists and increasingly right-wing conservatives don't believe in science, but you still emphasise and perhaps renegotiate if necessary the date at which a fetus becomes viable and meaningfully conscious or human, and you hammer home the point that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions less safe. Otherwise attempts to construct a watertight and emotionally persuasive argument on very narrow lines not only don't work, they actually tacitly give ground to the opposition, something that has been happening all the time on the left whether it's regarding abortion, immigration, etc.

There is no negotiation to be had, though. One side will accept nothing other than 'life begins at conception and all abortion should be illegal.' If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, that's God's will. If she dies of complications from pregnancy, God's will. If she dies of an unsafe back alley procedure, that's God's vengeance for her sinful choices. There is no middle ground because one side will not accept any compromise.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3870 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 08:03:36 pm »
This has been some blinding PR for Handmaids Tale Season 3, coincidentally starting in a couple of weeks.

Offline cubaricho

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3871 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 08:21:22 pm »
The argument in favour of abortion rights should focus on two aspects: the idea that prior to a certain number of weeks, probably somewhere between 18 and 24 but at least somewhere in the second trimester, what you have isn't scientifically or morally a human being, and that a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body trumps the rights of a fetus which is neither viable nor conscious in any meaningful sense; and the fact that criminalising abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just makes abortions more dangerous, putting both the woman and the fetus at risk. There's even evidence that legal abortion can lower the abortion rate, at least in tandem with sex education and easy access to contraception, which are the best ways to reduce the number of abortions which take place.

From there you can move on to all sorts of hypotheticals. But when your first line of argument involves a twelve-year-old's rape babies, you've already lost, because the situation is too specific and those who are against abortion will just regard those cases, at best, as collateral damage towards a greater good.

While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said:

1. In the current context, the issue of children being forced to bear their rapists children isn't being used as a front-line argument. It's coming up because the Alabama legislature specifically voted down an amendment to the bill which would have allowed an exception in cases of rape and incest. The battle over the general prohibition of abortion under the Alabama bill was already lost. The votes were there to pass it. The legislators opposing the bill were simply asking for an amendment to add an exception in the limited cases of rape and incest. The majority rejected it. The cruelty is the point.

2. The front-line arguments against laws prohibiting abortion are generally as you have stated them. The problem is that many Republicans do not "believe" in science--they believe in the Bible and their shitty, lying evangelical preachers--and the rest of them may understand science, but they do not give a single f***. Because, again, the cruelty is the point.

And all of this is even before we get to the racist subtext of bills of like these. Especially in states like Alabama.
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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3872 on: Thursday 16 May 2019, 11:02:47 pm »
This is a theoretical question and absolutely no way born out of any expectation, but in cases like this in Alabama, would the Federal Government have any power to block this?
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make

Online Tomato Deuce

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3873 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 01:58:07 am »
This is a theoretical question and absolutely no way born out of any expectation, but in cases like this in Alabama, would the Federal Government have any power to block this?

I’m not positive, but I believe the U.S. Attorney could sue the State of Alabama in federal district court on the grounds that it violates the Constitution. They won’t, because the likes of the ACLU and Southern Poverty Law Center will beat them to the punch.

Edit: federal courts have the power to issue injunctions when state laws violate the Constitution.

Offline Mike

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Re: US Politics & Society
« Reply #3874 on: Friday 17 May 2019, 02:02:07 am »

:lol: Would space pirates exist before we invented the technology required to launch space force? Aren't space pirates kinda dependent on the black market that would arise as we developed spaceships?

I'm overthinking what that dipshit said.