Author Topic: Poppygate  (Read 13985 times)

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Online ToonArmy1892

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #50 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 01:39:41 AM »
You don't need to wear a poppy to remember abd respect people who have died.

Simple as that.

Offline loki679

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #51 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 04:54:40 AM »
The money from the poppies goes the the British Legion, right? Could always just make a small donation instead.
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Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #52 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 05:31:54 AM »
The money from the poppies goes the the British Legion, right? Could always just make a small donation instead.

This is a contentious issue also, the appropriation of the poppy as a symbol of support or thanks for service and sacrifice has surplanted the initial poignance. I may be ignorant and the connection has always been in place, but it is no longer a differentiated reminder of a war in which people were brazenly lied to, with patriotism of the working and middle classes preyed on massively, leading to conscription and sometimes the execution of objectors. It wasn’t about protecting their country either; it was empire building and the egos of the crowned heads of Europe.

I have no problem with the British legion and supporting our troops but I feel it’s been appropriated. The Great War and World War 2 I suppose were a warning (the latter was more about protecting values of course.) Still, the point remains. Tin hat on here, risking inappropriate metaphor

Offline kingkerouac

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #53 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 08:15:39 AM »
The money from the poppies goes the the British Legion, right? Could always just make a small donation instead.

This is a contentious issue also, the appropriation of the poppy as a symbol of support or thanks for service and sacrifice has surplanted the initial poignance. I may be ignorant and the connection has always been in place, but it is no longer a differentiated reminder of a war in which people were brazenly lied to, with patriotism of the working and middle classes preyed on massively, leading to conscription and sometimes the execution of objectors. It wasn’t about protecting their country either; it was empire building and the egos of the crowned heads of Europe.

I have no problem with the British legion and supporting our troops but I feel it’s been appropriated. The Great War and World War 2 I suppose were a warning (the latter was more about protecting values of course.) Still, the point remains. Tin hat on here, risking inappropriate metaphor

 :clap:

Offline HaydnNUFC

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #54 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 04:30:52 PM »
The money from the poppies goes the the British Legion, right? Could always just make a small donation instead.

This is a contentious issue also, the appropriation of the poppy as a symbol of support or thanks for service and sacrifice has surplanted the initial poignance. I may be ignorant and the connection has always been in place, but it is no longer a differentiated reminder of a war in which people were brazenly lied to, with patriotism of the working and middle classes preyed on massively, leading to conscription and sometimes the execution of objectors. It wasn’t about protecting their country either; it was empire building and the egos of the crowned heads of Europe.

I have no problem with the British legion and supporting our troops but I feel it’s been appropriated. The Great War and World War 2 I suppose were a warning (the latter was more about protecting values of course.) Still, the point remains. Tin hat on here, risking inappropriate metaphor
:thup:

The First World War is one of the most costly but pointless wars in history, for both sides. The conditions for the soldiers were absolutely horrific on the Western Front up until probably Cambrai.

The Second World War was unfortunately necessary due to the oppressive nature of the two main Axis powers. Plus I find a bit more patriotism in WWII, alone against the Germans from mid 1940 to 41, Battle of Britain, the Kommandobefehl to name a few things.
But...6 in a row. But...Calciopoli.

I reckon Haydn wears pure concentrated pheromones.

Offline James

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #55 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 06:11:18 PM »
For me the poppy and also the army generally has been hijacked by the right and racist movements so I will not wear.

However I will be observing and respecting the minutes silence for those who fought for our country apolitically
I looked into the eye of the Island and what I saw was beautiful.

Offline Toon Hoser

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #56 on: Monday 15 October 2018, 09:24:46 PM »
It’s also a tradition in Canada and I don’t recall any poppy-related controversies from my time there. Plenty of folks wore them, plenty didn’t.


The poppy furore doesn't happen here.  The only poppy-related scandale I can remember is when some c*** stole a coin box and triggered a round-the-clock manhunt.

Offline Stifleaay

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 08:37:46 PM »
In my previous post I said I haven’t worn one since I left school, probably an exaggeration but I do hardly get one.

Now though I’m making a point of not wearing one. If I have change I’ll give some to the Legion, however I’m recent days I have seen the poppy nazi’s come out in force. Sick of people claiming someone is racists against white’s or British of you don’t wear one, whilst making racist remarks to others.
Poppy has became a symbol of the white racist, f*** it, I want no part of it.

Offline Kimbo

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 09:58:10 PM »
I’ve never heard of people being racist against whites for not wearing a poppy.

Re: Poppygate
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:02:42 PM »
That's because it's a ridiculous statement.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make

Offline Stifleaay

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #60 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:25:03 PM »
I’ve never heard of people being racist against whites for not wearing a poppy.
I’m not saying people are, I’m saying racists use it to say people who don’t wear one are racist against white people.

Offline Klaus

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #61 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:28:30 PM »
The poppy burning (in Luton I think) in response to soldiers abusing POWs was what began the formation of the EDL and other far right groups. Sadly yes, racists and nationalists try to adopt the Union Jack and poppy etc, but most sensible people know that they mean something different.

I haven’t heard a white racist, abuse another white guy for not wearing one mind :lol:

Offline Kimbo

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:32:34 PM »
I’ve never heard of people being racist against whites for not wearing a poppy.
I’m not saying people are, I’m saying racists use it to say people who don’t wear one are racist against white people.

I'm just saying I haven't heard of that accusation before, my understanding was that some think it's anti-Britain and unpatriotic not to wear one, and some think it is pro-war and imperialist if you do wear one.

Offline MKSC

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #63 on: Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:32:58 PM »
Won't wear one as I feel it's a pointless piece of tat that has been appropriated by the sort of people who post things like "the older generation have cost us our future with Europe, have they" with a pictures of angry pro-eu protesters and a load of war graves. As if the two things are linked in any way at all.

It's all got very pro-military rather than just rememberence, which as a complete peacefreak I can't get with. Being a historian I study and talk about war a lot, and frankly it's nearly always a waste of time and lives. I'll remember the poor b******s who were sent to die for good ol' blighty (and all the foreign troops too) in my own way. I donate to veterans charities and regularly visit war graves on my travels.

Online ToonArmy1892

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #64 on: Monday 22 October 2018, 12:48:56 AM »
Won't wear one as I feel it's a pointless piece of tat that has been appropriated by the sort of people who post things like "the older generation have cost us our future with Europe, have they" with a pictures of angry pro-eu protesters and a load of war graves. As if the two things are linked in any way at all.

It's all got very pro-military rather than just rememberence, which as a complete peacefreak I can't get with. Being a historian I study and talk about war a lot, and frankly it's nearly always a waste of time and lives. I'll remember the poor b******s who were sent to die for good ol' blighty (and all the foreign troops too) in my own way. I donate to veterans charities and regularly visit war graves on my travels.

:clap:

Offline loki679

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #65 on: Monday 22 October 2018, 05:22:51 AM »
I’ve never heard of people being racist against whites for not wearing a poppy.
I’m not saying people are, I’m saying racists use it to say people who don’t wear one are racist against white people.

Well, white people have had it pretty hard tbf
Comfy chairs, beer, and doom. Humanity's future is an early 90s LAN party.

Offline xLiaaamx

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #66 on: Monday 22 October 2018, 06:18:09 AM »
Dont wear one because I dont see the point. a piece of plastic does nowt.

Offline Fugazi

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 23 October 2018, 04:36:01 PM »
Consider winning

Offline Ian W

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday 23 October 2018, 04:38:32 PM »
Just need to add some Halloween stuff and they've got all the bases covered.

Offline Altamullan

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 24 October 2018, 09:55:53 PM »
Respect and appreciation of people (young men, in the main, friend or foe) whose lives have been foreshortened or blighted by doing what they thought was right for the collective good. I always wear one. I feel I have a better sense that most of the price that has been paid. Regardless of ‘brain washing’ or  true drivers for conflict—rarely  something that the unblinkered neutral can get behind—millions have died or been scarred for life by doing what they’ve thought was right for their own comrades/society. I respect that. The horror, glory and shame included.

There’s a great line from a song written by Eric Bogle (And the band played Waltzing Matilda) which captures this for me: “When the young people ask, ‘What are they marching for?’ then I ask myself the same question.’ Worth a listen (as is Green Fields of France).

No se ganó Zamora en una hora y lo barato sale caro

Offline Darth Crooks

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 24 October 2018, 10:28:24 PM »
Good post and clip that. Had the right poignance.

Online sadnesstan

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #71 on: Wednesday 24 October 2018, 11:13:04 PM »
Always raises a tear, that song.

Offline Ian W

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 24 October 2018, 11:42:56 PM »
I might be misunderstanding the poppy... I've always thought of it more as a celebration or a sign of pride than a symbol of regret.

Waltzing Matilda is an anti-war song, if wearing a poppy is just paying tribute to individual victims of war then fair enough. But it seems a bit mixed up to say the least.

I have very mixed views about the armed forces. Of course in things like WW2 we did what we had to do for the world, but those wars seem more like the exception than the general rule. I respect the bravery of fighters in isolation, but I think we should regret the need to have them and any time we've used them.

Guess maybe it's different for each person.

Online sadnesstan

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 24 October 2018, 11:55:17 PM »
It's a symbol of remembrance, it's personal attachments will depend on the individual memories I guess. Those who's loved ones returned as heroes will remember with pride, and a little regret. Those who lost more than they gained will be regretful, with nothing but national pride to warm them.


Similarly, "And the band played waltzing matilda" isn't essentially an anti-war song. For me it reflects exactly what you said in your third paragraph.

Offline neesy111

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Re: Poppygate
« Reply #74 on: Thursday 25 October 2018, 12:16:25 PM »