Poll

Should 'Count Dankula' have been prosecuted under hate crime laws for his video?  Note: Not asking if you think it's funny, that's irrelevant.  

Yes
10 (16.4%)
No
51 (83.6%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Free Speech  (Read 31103 times)

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Offline Tomato Deuce

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #975 on: Friday 1 November 2019, 12:47:27 AM »
Jack's a weird little nonce himself, but he's made a shrewd move here.

Offline B-more Mag

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #976 on: Thursday 21 November 2019, 10:03:58 PM »
Wew!

Quote
On the First Amendment
This message was sent to the Kelley School of Business community Nov. 20, 2019.

Professor Eric Rasmusen has, for many years, used his private social media accounts to disseminate his racist, sexist, and homophobic views. When I label his views in this way, let me note that the labels are not a close call, nor do his posts require careful parsing to reach these conclusions. He has posted, among many other things, the following pernicious and false stereotypes:

That he believes that women do not belong in the workplace, particularly not in academia, and that he believes most women would prefer to have a boss than be one; he has used slurs in his posts about women;
That gay men should not be permitted in academia either, because he believes they are promiscuous and unable to avoid abusing students;
That he believes that black students are generally unqualified for attendance at elite institutions, and are generally inferior academically to white students.
Ordinarily, I would not dignify these bigoted statements with repetition, but we need to confront exactly what we are dealing with in Professor Rasmusen’s posts. His expressed views are stunningly ignorant, more consistent with someone who lived in the 18th century than the 21st. Sometimes Professor Rasmusen explains his views as animated by his Christian faith, although Christ was neither a bigot nor did he use slurs; indeed, he counseled avoiding judgments. Rhetorically speaking, Professor Rasmusen has demonstrated no difficulty in casting the first, or the lethal, stone.

His latest posts slurring women were picked up by a person with a heavily followed Twitter account, and various officials at Indiana University have been inundated in the last few days with demands that he be fired. We cannot, nor would we, fire Professor Rasmusen for his posts as a private citizen, as vile and stupid as they are, because the First Amendment of the United States Constitution forbids us to do so. That is not a close call.

Indiana University has a strong nondiscrimination policy, and as an institution adheres to values that are the opposite of Professor Rasmusen’s expressed values. We demand tolerance and respect in the workplace and in the classroom, and if Professor Rasmusen acted upon his expressed views in the workplace to judge his students or colleagues on the basis of their gender, sexual orientation, or race to their detriment, such as in promotion and tenure decisions or in grading, he would be acting both illegally and in violation of our policies and we would investigate and address those allegations according to our processes. Moreover, in my view, students who are women, gay, or of color could reasonably be concerned that someone with Professor Rasmusen’s expressed prejudices and biases would not give them a fair shake in his classes, and that his expressed biases would infect his perceptions of their work. Given the strength and longstanding nature of his views, these concerns are reasonable.

Therefore, the Kelley School is taking a number of steps to ensure that students not add the baggage of bigotry to their learning experience:

No student will be forced to take a class from Professor Rasmusen. The Kelley School will provide alternatives to Professor Rasmusen’s classes;
Professor Rasmusen will use double-blind grading on assignments; if there are components of grading that cannot be subject to a double-blind procedure, the Kelley School will have another faculty member ensure that the grades are not subject to Professor Rasmusen’s prejudices.
If other steps are needed to protect our students or colleagues from bigoted actions, Indiana University will take them.

The First Amendment is strong medicine, and works both ways. All of us are free to condemn views that we find reprehensible, and to do so as vehemently and publicly as Professor Rasmusen expresses his views. We are free to avoid his classes, and demand that the university ensure that he does not, or has not, acted on those views in ways that violate either the federal and state civil rights laws or IU’s nondiscrimination policies. I condemn, in the strongest terms, Professor Rasmusen’s views on race, gender, and sexuality, and I think others should condemn them. But my strong disagreement with his views—indeed, the fact that I find them loathsome—is not a reason for Indiana University to violate the Constitution of the United States.

This is a lesson, unfortunately, that all of us need to take seriously, even as we support our colleagues and classmates in their perfectly reasonable anger and disgust that someone who is a professor at an elite institution would hold, and publicly proclaim, views that our country, and our university, have long rejected as wrong and immoral.

Lauren Robel
Executive Vice President and Provost
https://provost.indiana.edu/statements/index.html

Offline Tomato Deuce

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #977 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 01:52:03 PM »
That’s a strong statement and effective management of that situation, but how the hell did he get hired in the first place :lol:

Offline Jimburst

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #978 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:12:29 PM »
That's well good and incredibly sensible.
A splatterhouse turd done in the manky toilets of a discotheque, brought on my the consumption of cowies or toot.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #979 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:27:51 PM »
Apart from he quite obviously should be fired :lol: My guess is they'll just make his life increasingly difficult until he quits or does something sackable.

Constitution is whack.

Offline Jimburst

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #980 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:28:28 PM »
Is it really that obvious?
A splatterhouse turd done in the manky toilets of a discotheque, brought on my the consumption of cowies or toot.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #981 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:30:29 PM »
:lol: yes. I'm sure it's some level of meta woke to think otherwise, but he has to teach a class where one could reasonably assume he abhors at least 50% of the students. No matter what happens with grading, he's supposed to treat those people as equal on a day-to-day basis? Aye right. I'm sure that'll happen.

Offline Jimburst

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #982 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:41:17 PM »
:lol: yes. I'm sure it's some level of meta woke to think otherwise, but he has to teach a class where one could reasonably assume he abhors at least 50% of the students. No matter what happens with grading, he's supposed to treat those people as equal on a day-to-day basis? Aye right. I'm sure that'll happen.

They can fire him as soon as he treats someone unequally, just not for something he's said in his private life.
A splatterhouse turd done in the manky toilets of a discotheque, brought on my the consumption of cowies or toot.

Offline SEMTEX

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #983 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:50:40 PM »
In America, sure. Wouldn't be allowed in the Queen's land. Constitution is still whack.

He works for a private organisation, and chooses to express his beliefs on a public forum. There's nee way he should be protected. If I had inadvertently hired some neo-nazi at work, I'd be f***ing mortified.

Online neesy111

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #984 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:53:41 PM »
He works for a private organisation, and chooses to express his beliefs on a public forum. There's nee way he should be protected. If I had inadvertently hired some neo-nazi at work, I'd be f***ing mortified.

This is it.

Offline thomas

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #985 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:55:33 PM »
A public university is a private organization?

Offline thomas

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #986 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 02:56:59 PM »
Also this is a side effect of the first amendment - not being able to preemptively persecute for thought crimes - not the specific incident it was crafted for :lol:

Offline Troll

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #987 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 03:15:31 PM »
You can fire anyone at any time for any reason in Indiana.  The reason he's still got a job is because it's nearly impossible to get rid of someone with tenure.

Offline ManDoon

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #988 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 04:47:20 PM »
:lol: yes. I'm sure it's some level of meta woke to think otherwise, but he has to teach a class where one could reasonably assume he abhors at least 50% of the students. No matter what happens with grading, he's supposed to treat those people as equal on a day-to-day basis? Aye right. I'm sure that'll happen.

They can fire him as soon as he treats someone unequally, just not for something he's said in his private life.

Not his private life though is it? Social media is public. Not something he said at his dinner table.

Also

"hat he believes that black students are generally unqualified for attendance at elite institutions, and are generally inferior academically to white students."

that is undefendable that he wouldn't express that sort of bias in his work, its not even possible to think he would separate out that view when it directly aligns with his work.  He should have been gone instantly
:lol: I dunno. I'm starting to think it was us.
Trump will do well man. Don't know why but I really feel this will be the case. Really hope it will come to be that way.

Steve Bruce "“We can’t compete with the bigs boys at the top end so the cup is our best bet - it’s a lovely day out”"

Offline Disco

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #989 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 04:55:38 PM »
Might be angling for a job as Education Secretary.

Offline Tomato Deuce

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #990 on: Monday 25 November 2019, 07:16:40 PM »
I think it probably has more to do with tenure than the First Amendment.

Offline Disco

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #991 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 01:44:58 PM »

Liberal elite up to their old banning tricks again.

Offline leffe186

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #992 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 02:03:48 PM »
I think it probably has more to do with tenure than the First Amendment.

Although the two are inextricably linked.
Obviously, I'm speaking of a hypothetical world in which there is a greater club than Tottenham.

Offline Papavasiliou

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #993 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 02:18:49 PM »

Liberal elite up to their old banning tricks again.

War on Xmas, m8!

Offline thomas

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #994 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 02:34:02 PM »
those are really the kind of decorations that need a rustic, handmade touch. Don't want the spirit tainted by commercialized, mass produced s****. Hope they start an etsy.

Offline Wullie

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #995 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 02:43:26 PM »
Imagine going round someone's house and seeing one of those hanging up. :lol:

Be like when Ted sees the Nazi priest's secret room.

"Would you have Christmas decorations without extermination camps on them?"

"No no that sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all I'm afraid."
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline BlufPurdi

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Re: Free Speech
« Reply #996 on: Monday 2 December 2019, 03:25:28 PM »
:lol:
Making mistakes is how you learn.
Every generation must fight the same battles again and again and again. There is no final victory, and there is no final defeat, and so a little bit of history may help.
“What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.
That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.