Poll

Should 'Count Dankula' have been prosecuted under hate crime laws for his video?  Note: Not asking if you think it's funny, that's irrelevant.  

Yes
10 (16.4%)
No
51 (83.6%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Free Speech  (Read 31064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:03:39 PM »
I haven't watched the 'offending article' so can't comment. It has no appeal whatsoever, other than, I suppose, watching it would afford me the right to discuss it.

The biggest crime here is that it's being discussed at such length.

As for the vid above, where he "schooled" the interviewer. Well just great. Every time somebody says "gas the jews", it's a small victory to him. f***. I've just done it.

You don't think it should be discussed at length when a bloke has literally been convicted in a UK court for 'hate speech' after a clear joke?

Like an actual skit with a punchline?

It wouldn't be discussed at all if he hadn't been tried.
Stan is there a reason why you convolute things like this?

He's been tried so we're discussing whether or not it's right or wrong. Either watch the video/read up on it and give your opinion or don't :lol:

Not being a dick like but howay man.

 I type 3 lines and I'm accused of talking at length and convoluting things?

firetotheworks

  • Guest
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:03:48 PM »


You've just offered a comment after saying you haven't seen it so can't comment.

My opinion is that it's a bullshit decision and that it's a really f***ing sad day when it's c***s like Tommy Robinson who are muddying the waters and using the situation for their own rank agenda by being the ones that are pretending to stand up for freedom of speech.

It's absolutely no different to what Cartman's been doing for 20 years, does that make Trey Parker and (the Jewish) Matt Stone racists or anti-Semites? Of course it f***ing doesn't, and neither does this.

What comment was about the video I haven't seen?



Every time somebody says "gas the jews", it's a small victory to him. f***. I've just done it.

Misses the point entirely because you haven't seen the original video.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:04:10 PM »
He's obviously being used by the likes of Robinson, and he is using Robinson's platform to get attention, but it didn't have to be him. There are plenty of high-profile left wing columnists and activists that claim to be liberal that could have aligned themselves with him, and actually stood up for liberal values. Robinson would have gone nowhere near him if he was surrounded by guardian columnists.

Yeah, I do agree.  In fact, it was the Jonathan Pie writers that got me onto this, I presume they're left given the content of their show. 
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Hanshithispantz

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:04:51 PM »
I haven't watched the 'offending article' so can't comment. It has no appeal whatsoever, other than, I suppose, watching it would afford me the right to discuss it.

The biggest crime here is that it's being discussed at such length.

As for the vid above, where he "schooled" the interviewer. Well just great. Every time somebody says "gas the jews", it's a small victory to him. f***. I've just done it.

You don't think it should be discussed at length when a bloke has literally been convicted in a UK court for 'hate speech' after a clear joke?

Like an actual skit with a punchline?

And you've totally missed my point. Maybe I should have said the ONLY crime. Does that help you any?
It reads like you're talking about us discussing it is a crime though, not the fact it went to trial. Wires crossed 'n that.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:05:57 PM »
It's funny that in a thread about free speech, everybody is so dictatorial about what I should watch.

Offline Hanshithispantz

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:06:24 PM »
I haven't watched the 'offending article' so can't comment. It has no appeal whatsoever, other than, I suppose, watching it would afford me the right to discuss it.

The biggest crime here is that it's being discussed at such length.

As for the vid above, where he "schooled" the interviewer. Well just great. Every time somebody says "gas the jews", it's a small victory to him. f***. I've just done it.

You don't think it should be discussed at length when a bloke has literally been convicted in a UK court for 'hate speech' after a clear joke?

Like an actual skit with a punchline?

It wouldn't be discussed at all if he hadn't been tried.
Stan is there a reason why you convolute things like this?

He's been tried so we're discussing whether or not it's right or wrong. Either watch the video/read up on it and give your opinion or don't :lol:

Not being a dick like but howay man.

 I type 3 lines and I'm accused of talking at length and convoluting things?
Because you're known to put things forward in a vague and convoluted way. nowt to do with the length of your posts.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:06:36 PM »
Not in the slightest bit true, Stan, but on you go mate, keep prattling on.  We'll move on from you I've no doubt.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Online Kimbo

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:12:15 PM »
He's obviously being used by the likes of Robinson, and he is using Robinson's platform to get attention, but it didn't have to be him. There are plenty of high-profile left wing columnists and activists that claim to be liberal that could have aligned themselves with him, and actually stood up for liberal values. Robinson would have gone nowhere near him if he was surrounded by guardian columnists.

Yeah, I do agree.  In fact, it was the Jonathan Pie writers that got me onto this, I presume they're left given the content of their show. 

That guy seems pretty unpopular at the moment for comments made in a channel 4 interview on freedom of speech. Lots of prominent left wing types are criticising him for it.



I wish we were like America and had some old document that told everyone what freedom of speech was, as it is there's a line that people are constantly trying to push, and I expect with the relentless moaning about twitter abuse there's going to be plenty of legislating on it over the next decade.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:12:21 PM »
The point is Bluf that if freedom of speech existed, we'd be free to talk about something else. Of course it's fuckng wrong, I could write an essay on why it is wrong.

I assume you've taken offence because you feel I was ridiculing your "schooled" comment. Apologies, I wasn't ridiculing your comment. He was schooled. No doubt. But it was no victory for free speech.

It was somebody who made a video of a dog, ouwitting a journalist.

Offline Adam^

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:12:51 PM »
Who are these PC brigade folk though? I'm a lefty millennial and I have no idea who these people are, yet I kept being told I'm part of this PC madness. Free speech to means you can say whatever you want, if what you say is deemed offensive by law then you have to deal with the consequences of that.

Framing the dog doing a salute as an attack on free speech is not correct, the issue is that the salute is deemed as offensive by a court of law. I don't think it is but lets change the laws that charged him rather than everyone shouting about FREE SPEECH IS DEAD which helps no one.

There are those who wish to stop down any debate which I disagree with, then there are those who are only using their platform to spread hatred of other people, religions and ethnicities. Both are as bad as each other, are we to let people stand at the monument shouting hatred about various groups or is it better to limit their access to such platforms to avoid it all together? I'd say let them talk and debate their views, but most of these cases there is no debate its people with an opinion with no right of reply (infowars etc).

Who's calling you part of the PC brigade? I'm left wing on most policies but have never been called PC like.

I have some friends (facebook friends) with some interesting views on politics, who constantly claim I'm a lefty liberal PC snowflake, also got some older family members who have called me that at various times when I've challenged their views on immigration brexit etc.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:13:19 PM »
He's obviously being used by the likes of Robinson, and he is using Robinson's platform to get attention, but it didn't have to be him. There are plenty of high-profile left wing columnists and activists that claim to be liberal that could have aligned themselves with him, and actually stood up for liberal values. Robinson would have gone nowhere near him if he was surrounded by guardian columnists.

Yeah, I do agree.  In fact, it was the Jonathan Pie writers that got me onto this, I presume they're left given the content of their show. 

That guy seems pretty unpopular at the moment for comments made in a channel 4 interview on freedom of speech. Lots of prominent left wing types are criticising him for it.



I wish we were like America and had some old document that told everyone what freedom of speech was, as it is there's a line that people are constantly trying to push, and I expect with the relentless moaning about twitter abuse there's going to be plenty of legislating on it over the next decade.

He's unpopular for saying that?? f***ing hell.

Online Kimbo

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:16:30 PM »
The line of thought seems to be that it's easy for a privileged white man to be pro-freedom of speech as they've never had to suffer from hate speech.

firetotheworks

  • Guest
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:25:52 PM »
It's funny that in a thread about free speech, everybody is so dictatorial about what I should watch.
You literally posted 'the only crime is that it's being discussed' man. Contribute all you want, but you're going to be told you're talking nonsense if you're talking nonsense.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:29:15 PM »
He's obviously being used by the likes of Robinson, and he is using Robinson's platform to get attention, but it didn't have to be him. There are plenty of high-profile left wing columnists and activists that claim to be liberal that could have aligned themselves with him, and actually stood up for liberal values. Robinson would have gone nowhere near him if he was surrounded by guardian columnists.

Yeah, I do agree.  In fact, it was the Jonathan Pie writers that got me onto this, I presume they're left given the content of their show. 

That guy seems pretty unpopular at the moment for comments made in a channel 4 interview on freedom of speech. Lots of prominent left wing types are criticising him for it.



I wish we were like America and had some old document that told everyone what freedom of speech was, as it is there's a line that people are constantly trying to push, and I expect with the relentless moaning about twitter abuse there's going to be plenty of legislating on it over the next decade.

:thup:

I think a lot of people suffer from groupthink without ever seeing it.  Dare say I do myself when it's something I believe.  I can talk to people, and I hate referring back to him but he's as close to our own version of South Park humour I can think of, that I know would love Jerry Sadowitz stuff, in fact in a few cases do love him, but have somehow come out on the other side of this.  I don't get it.  I can only think it's because of the 'alt-right' tag, and people just can't face standing up to the onslaught so meekly go along with the tide of change.

Kind of unrelated, but definitely a free speech issue.  There's plenty of people I follow on twitter, for instance, that are talking about how we should criminalise Holocaust denial in the UK.  The fact that the countries that have the strongest and most represented far-right elements are countries with that f***ing law doesn't even resonate.  Do people not realise by making people completely hide their views, due to legal reasons, you're really just hiding a problem in the making.  That's not to say they should be allowed to run around offending with their s****, they don't, if they cross the line they can be done for a hate crime, but there's a better balance than outright banning the ability to say something or taking punitive actions against t***s making s*** jokes. 
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Hanshithispantz

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:29:18 PM »
That Pie video is good like, I'd be happy to see him more like that (out of character).


Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:37:56 PM »
It's funny that in a thread about free speech, everybody is so dictatorial about what I should watch.
You literally posted 'the only crime is that it's being discussed' man. Contribute all you want, but you're going to be told you're talking nonsense if you're talking nonsense.

Yes. A crime against free speech. The thread is titled "Free Speech, yes or no?". (at least I thought it was)

Offline HTT

  • tl;dr
  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:49:31 PM »
I’m all for fee speech providing I agree with whatever is being said...
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Offline B-more Mag

  • General Member
  • Only here for the GC.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:49:46 PM »
Off topic, but I'd be happy to be labeled PC. The people that use the as a pejorative the most are the same ones who have no concept of why it's not a great adea to be total f***ing assholes to marginalized people if the first place.

Offline B-more Mag

  • General Member
  • Only here for the GC.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:53:02 PM »
Another thing that pisses me off, as long as I'm already getting all crotchety, is the way some people rattle on about "freedom of speech" in entirely private contexts, as opposed to when there's government involvement, which is the only time it's a thing.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:55:36 PM »
is there a link to the video i should be watching or is it just that t*** talking to the other t*** with the curb music?
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:57:28 PM »
I assumed most had seen it, but here:



Not sure there is a direct link to the original anymore, he probably got banned from YT.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Online thomas

  • NO's Best Foreigner - Participant
  • General Member
  • Here's that Portuguese wizard battle you ordered.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 02:58:45 PM »
Another thing that pisses me off, as long as I'm already getting all crotchety, is the way some people rattle on about "freedom of speech" in entirely private contexts, as opposed to when there's government involvement, which is the only time it's a thing.
:thup: the idiots who think facebook/twitter/social media "censorship" is a first amendment issue would be hilarious if their numbers weren't so large.

Offline BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 03:00:59 PM »
Off topic, but I'd be happy to be labeled PC. The people that use the as a pejorative the most are the same ones who have no concept of why it's not a great adea to be total f***ing assholes to marginalized people if the first place.

Political correctness has done a lot of good, no doubt.  It's just the constant furthering of it that's a bit worrying.  People were saying 10, 20 years ago they'd eventually come for comedians/comedy, usually the last line of those able to cause offence without being subjected to ludicrous use of very justified hate crime laws.  And here we are.  I'll be really mad when they take Jerry away from me.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Offline Tomato Deuce

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 03:02:18 PM »
Off topic, but I'd be happy to be labeled PC. The people that use the as a pejorative the most are the same ones who have no concept of why it's not a great adea to be total f***ing assholes to marginalized people if the first place.
Another thing that pisses me off, as long as I'm already getting all crotchety, is the way some people rattle on about "freedom of speech" in entirely private contexts, as opposed to when there's government involvement, which is the only time it's a thing.

:thup:

Always gets me that the “anti-PC” types who throw around terms like ‘liberal snowflake’ are also those who scream bloody murder when they’re on the receiving end of even the slightest bit of criticism.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Free Speech or Not?
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 29 April 2018, 03:08:44 PM »
Those who don't believe in free speech have every right to shut the f*** up.