Poll

VAR to be used in the Premier League, are you:

Happy
69 (48.3%)
Ambivalent
47 (32.9%)
Angry
27 (18.9%)

Total Members Voted: 138

Author Topic: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)  (Read 43467 times)

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Offline ToonArmy1892

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #750 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 02:03:07 AM »
So I'm watching the LIV-ARS game on MOTD (4ish hours after the event) and there is an incident which VAR deems worthy of a second look;

Commentator: " I've no idea what they're looking at".

Maybe somebody could have asked somebody, before recording started.

?

He is commentating live.

It's edited.

Of course the action they show is, but the commentators are live, they don't commentate a re-run.

The post match analysis isn't live though. Point is, the program didn't address it. It was, essentially, a nothing event, why bother showing it in the highlights, if they're not going to clarify it in analysis?

I'm pretty sure the post match analysis is live like but i agree with your point.

It was like a dig at VAR.

Offline sadnesstan

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #751 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 05:05:39 AM »
So I'm watching the LIV-ARS game on MOTD (4ish hours after the event) and there is an incident which VAR deems worthy of a second look;

Commentator: " I've no idea what they're looking at".

Maybe somebody could have asked somebody, before recording started.

?

He is commentating live.

It's edited.

Of course the action they show is, but the commentators are live, they don't commentate a re-run.

The post match analysis isn't live though. Point is, the program didn't address it. It was, essentially, a nothing event, why bother showing it in the highlights, if they're not going to clarify it in analysis?

I'm pretty sure the post match analysis is live like but i agree with your point.

It was like a dig at VAR.

That's what I thought. But it's a stupid dig when somebody at the BBC could clearly have discovered the facts, in the four hours between the live (as it happens) commentary, and the live (on the telly 4 hours after the event) analysis.

Offline ToonArmy1892

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #752 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 03:33:34 PM »
 :lol: Clear pen not given in the Citeh game, that's the problem with pens and reds, it's just the VAR's opinion.


Offline Mr Logic

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #753 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:08:22 PM »
VAR to the rescue.
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Offline Ginola

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #754 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:19:49 PM »
Should have penalties for the fouls on David Silva and Kane

Offline BlackandWhite

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #755 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:34:48 PM »
The term VARCE is applicable still.

A clear penalty and clear red card for the foul on Muto when he was through on goal all missed.

Offline sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #756 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:37:15 PM »
I think it was Danny Murphy, on nbcsn, trying to explain why Var didn't give Kane a penalty. Painful.

Online Stifleaay

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #757 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:40:06 PM »
The ball was away from Kane before Lascelles went down, Kane was always struggling to get to it. I would have been p*ssed if it went against us, one of those where you would be claiming that somewhere along the lines you have been paid back for a wrong decision if it went for you.
« Last Edit: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:50:13 PM by Stifleaay »

Offline Ginola

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #758 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:47:15 PM »
:lol: It was nowhere near away from him

Offline sadnesstan

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #759 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 06:48:42 PM »
The ball was away from Kane before Lascelles went down, Kane was always struggling to get to it. I would have been kissed if it went against us, one of those where you would be claiming that somewhere along the lines you have been paid back for a wrong decision if it went for you.

Aye. But that wasn't how Murphy saw it. He was saying that the VAR guys thought it was a foul, but that was just their opinion, and couldn't overturn the decision because they knew where Dean was coming from.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was exactly what was going on. Like I said, Painful.

Offline Segun Oluwaniyi

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #760 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:00:43 PM »
If they are going to have VAR, the referee needs to be the one looking at the "clear and obvious error" on the screen. I strongly dislike the idea of a third party making the actual call other than the pseudo-scientific offsides decisions.

Online Yorkie

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #761 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:10:56 PM »
If they're determined to retain this margin for error, then I really don't understand its purpose in the first place.

My view of the Kane/Lascelles incident today is: Lascelles impeded Kane without managing to get a fair touch on the ball. It was clumsy and a little bit unfortunate (unlike, say, a late tackle where he's taken his shooting leg from under him), but the presence of an out-of-control defender has ultimately prevented an attacker from getting a clear shot at goal. Surely, given those circumstances, we're talking foul and penalty?

Assuming my view of the incident is correct, the referee therefore has missed an infringement. On what grounds is that infringement allowed to prevail, if VAR has been introduced to ensure that the correct decisions are made? What's the criteria there? Do the officials in the back-office have to completely contradict the existence and purpose of the technology by arbitrarily 'looking through the eyes of the referee' and finding a balance somewhere? How is that a fair system? It's like trying to be subjective for subjective's sake, even though you've got all the tools to be objective. It's inconsistent and - more concerningly - it smashes open the door for biased calls.

I just find the whole thing utterly flawed and a total f***ing waste of everybody's time.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #762 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:16:57 PM »
If they're determined to retain this margin for error, then I really don't understand its purpose in the first place.

My view of the Kane/Lascelles incident today is: Lascelles impeded Kane without managing to get a fair touch on the ball. It was clumsy and a little bit unfortunate (unlike, say, a late tackle where he's taken his shooting leg from under him), but the presence of an out-of-control defender has ultimately prevented an attacker from getting a clear shot at goal. Surely, given those circumstances, we're talking foul and penalty?

Assuming my view of the incident is correct, the referee therefore has missed an infringement. On what grounds is that infringement allowed to prevail, if VAR has been introduced to ensure that the correct decisions are made? What's the criteria there? Do they completely contradict the existence and purpose of the technology by arbitrarily 'looking through the eyes of the referee' and finding a balance somewhere? How is that a fair system? It's like trying to be subjective for subjective's sake, even though you've got all the tools to be subjective. It's inconsistent and - more concerningly - it smashes open the door for biased calls.

I just find the whole thing utterly flawed and a total f***ing waste of everybody's time.

They make themselves look totally ridiculous by holding different standards to different incidents. They've apparently been told to apply a very high bar to overturn a penalty decision, so Lascelles/Lerma/Lamela in the last two weekends are not considered enough of a howler to overturn. That would be all well and good, "clear and obvious" in action, if they weren't examining offsides to the nearest atom and don't get me started on handball.
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Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #763 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:18:25 PM »
i thought it was the right call on the penalty, lascelles went over and brushed him but it was hardly a barge or anything...kane basically held his position rather than moving to the ball which he could have done in order to buy a penna
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Offline Andy

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #764 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:28:47 PM »
i thought it was the right call on the penalty, lascelles went over and brushed him but it was hardly a barge or anything...kane basically held his position rather than moving to the ball which he could have done in order to buy a penna

Kane leaned his body towards Lascelles. Was looking for the penalty IMO.

Offline ToonArmy1892

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #765 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:29:23 PM »
i thought it was the right call on the penalty, lascelles went over and brushed him but it was hardly a barge or anything...kane basically held his position rather than moving to the ball which he could have done in order to buy a penna

Kane leaned his body towards Lascelles. Was looking for the penalty IMO.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #766 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 07:29:31 PM »
i thought it was the right call on the penalty, lascelles went over and brushed him but it was hardly a barge or anything...kane basically held his position rather than moving to the ball which he could have done in order to buy a penna

Kane leaned his body towards Lascelles. Was looking for the penalty IMO.

precisely, the ball was there but he stopped moving toward it and looked for lascelles instead

correct call
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Online triggs

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #767 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:00:24 PM »
I think if Kane didn't put his body towards Lascelles he would have stayed up and got a shot away and it was also accidental so don't think it was a pen
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Offline Rompe

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #768 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:04:16 PM »
Lascelles was nowhere near the ball and quite clearly impeded Kane. Whether or not Kane was looking for it is a different discussion. Should've been a penalty, but we got lucky today.
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Offline Andy

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #769 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:09:21 PM »
Lascelles was nowhere near the ball and quite clearly impeded Kane. Whether or not Kane was looking for it is a different discussion. Should've been a penalty, but we got lucky today.

Wouldn't say it's a different discussion since it's almost definitely the reason it wasn't given IMO. Many penalties are denied on the basis of "he was looking for it".

Offline Rompe

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #770 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:14:01 PM »
Lascelles was nowhere near the ball and quite clearly impeded Kane. Whether or not Kane was looking for it is a different discussion. Should've been a penalty, but we got lucky today.

Wouldn't say it's a different discussion since it's almost definitely the reason it wasn't given IMO. Many penalties are denied on the basis of "he was looking for it".

But a foul is a foul, wouldn't you agree? Whether the player is looking for it should be irrelevant as long as he is in fact fouled. Kane was looking for it, but he was hindered by Lascelles who didn't try to play the ball. In my eyes that's a penalty.
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Offline Andy

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #771 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:25:55 PM »
Well it depends, if the striker goes out of his way to make contact it can't always be a penalty or they'd all just ignore the ball and look for the defender's leg at every opportunity. And saying Lascelles didn't try to play the ball is a bit harsh since he fell over and injured himself, it's not like it was a reckless lunge.

Offline ToonArmy1892

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #772 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:26:47 PM »
Surprised the Dean didn't give it like.

Offline BlackandWhite

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #773 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 08:28:44 PM »
At the end of the day Laccelles has fallen over and taken Kane down with him in the penalty box. Injury or no injury, looking for it or not, it is a pen. The laws don’t legislate for players looking for pens unless they’ve deliberately looked to cheat I.e. dived.

I can see why VAR didn’t give it now if we’re having this much of a debate about it. And that is one of the reasons why football is rife with refereeing controversy. Different referees have different opinion, see things differently, etc. Controversy in decision will always be a part of football and if there is one thing VAR has done it has certainly proved that.

Offline madras

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Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #774 on: Sunday 25 August 2019, 09:14:36 PM »
Thought it was a pen at the time but theres one particular angle where it looks like Kane leans in and because Lascelles isnt there, because hes already fallen, it makes Kane go down and then he seems to deliberately put his leg over Lascalles to make it more likea foul than it was.
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