Poll

VAR to be used in the Premier League, are you:

Happy
67 (48.9%)
Ambivalent
46 (33.6%)
Angry
24 (17.5%)

Total Members Voted: 137

Author Topic: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)  (Read 32807 times)

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Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #700 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 09:49:09 AM »

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
or we could just go back to the old rules which worked just fine and throw var in the bin rather than try and mutilate the rules so var fits.

Which ones, they've been changed countless times in small ways over the years like. Look at offside, has gone from daylight to the width of a fingernail man.

Rules don't have to be changed wholesale like, they just have to make sense with VAR.

So of the 4 things they're saying it's used for, as an example:

Offside: needs to be a practical advantage taken by the attacker, this mm bullshit is nonsense. Make it daylight again which var can easily capture with very little controversy. Advantage goes to the defender if it's in doubt, imo.

Red card incidents: is there an issue with it for this? I guess the main one would be you can't review things like 2nd yellows right? Not sure anything needs to change there

Mistaken identity: again any issue?

Penalties: main one is surely this f***ing nonsense about the hand being in an unnatural position or whatever it is. They need to adjust the rules so every f***ing ball kicked at a defender won't result in a penalty

As regards the overall point about something happening 28 passes ago that led to a goal, it's going too far imo. Off the top of my head make it active in areas or something, so if there's a foul in the final third of the pitch prior to a goal then it's eligible for var review and the goal can be chalked off.

I get that a foul could be committed next to your own box to win the ball then you go up and score right away. You'd feel aggrieved but at the end of the day if you take the ball 90 yards and score the other team has had ample opportunity to stop you doing it and haven't.

Go back a couple of seasons, Everton at home when we lost to a last minute header from a corner that should have been a goal kick.

So literally 3 touches after a wrong call, VAR rule that one out?

I'm actually curious, I haven't read up enough on what it is to be used for.

I've not read the intricacies of it if I'm being honest, just on about the bits I've seen and read and what I would do.

I think there has to be balance to the cost (time) and benefit like anything else. So in the example you give, for me, if the wrong call leads to a direct free it should be reviewable, however if it gives a corner or indirect free kick then no as you have the opportunity to defend what's coming as a team. I think they should allow some kind of challenge system as well, maybe 1 per half on key calls.

That kind of balance, to do otherwise leads down the path Wullies quote was on about.
So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Online Sima

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #701 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:11:06 AM »
I think one of the worst things as a fan of a club is that VAR will strip away the excitement and adrenaline rush of your team scoring a goal.

The joy that comes with a last minute winner?  Don’t bother anymore because even if the officials on the field give it, your joy might be pulled back and even if it is given you’ve got to hang around while it is confirmed to celebrate which won’t feel instinctive.

Offline loki679

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #702 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:13:00 AM »
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.
Comfy chairs, beer, and doom. Humanity's future is an early 90s LAN party.

Offline neesy111

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #703 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:13:29 AM »
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.

This 100%.

Offline bigfella

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #704 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 11:14:28 AM »
I think one of the worst things as a fan of a club is that VAR will strip away the excitement and adrenaline rush of your team scoring a goal.

The joy that comes with a last minute winner?  Don’t bother anymore because even if the officials on the field give it, your joy might be pulled back and even if it is given you’ve got to hang around while it is confirmed to celebrate which won’t feel instinctive.

This is the truth. Football is the best game in the world, because good sport from the spectator's point of view, is all about tension and release.

Offline Mike

  • General Member
  • *cocaine scream*
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #705 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 04:19:49 PM »
:lol: Wolves' disallowed goal feels dead harsh.

Offline mrmojorisin75

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
« Reply #706 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 05:18:43 PM »
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.

This 100%.

The f*** are you two daft c***s on about man?

So raise your fists and march around
Dont dare take what you need
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or i'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name

Sleep now in the fire

Offline LFEE

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #707 on: Sunday 11 August 2019, 06:43:36 PM »
:lol: Wolves' disallowed goal feels dead harsh.

Just seen it. Another VAR classic. Wonder if someone will bring a compilation DVD out of the best ones :lol:

Offline sbnufc

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #708 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:26:56 PM »

Online sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #709 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:48:57 PM »
It's absolutely s****, but it's here to stay and the rules will be adapted to fit the technology.

Offline duo

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #710 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:53:16 PM »
Why such the push for VAR? What's it achieved? Instead of discussing a ref decision where discussing how poor VAR is.

Offline jdckelly

  • Book Wanker
  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #711 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:54:04 PM »
the fundamental problem I have with it boils down to does it make football more enjoyable to watch, thus far the definitive answer for myself has been hell f***ing no

Offline duo

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #712 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:57:43 PM »
the fundamental problem I have with it boils down to does it make football more enjoyable to watch, thus far the definitive answer for myself has been hell f***ing no
This^

Absolute s*** what happened yesterday at Man City - takes the joy out the game for a decision no one would have questioned before.

Online sadnesstan

  • General Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #713 on: Sunday 18 August 2019, 04:42:19 PM »
Won't be long before you can bet on the outcome of VAR.

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #714 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 02:39:14 PM »
The problem with VAR is that we asked for it. We wanted to reach the correct decisions. What it's taking away (as others correctly identify) is the drama behind it. Yes it was the correct decision in the Man City game, but we need to work out where we want the balance, either with VAR and getting decisions right (with reduced drama / enjoyment for viewers) or the reverse. Also throw into the mix that a referee also has discretion to refer / not refer certain incidents to VAR and the picture gets even more complicated.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #715 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 02:47:03 PM »
It was only the "correct decision" because the laws have been changed this summer for the purposes of accommodating VAR.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #716 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 02:50:04 PM »
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #717 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 02:58:55 PM »
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.

If you read the 4th bullet point from the bottom on this link highlighting the changes to the Laws of the Game, you'll find it does. In that situation, it hit the attacking player's (Laporte's) arm. Whilst accidental it hit his arm and under this definition it was the correct decision to rule the goal out.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of the new law change, but the decision based on the reading of the law in this instance was correct. I believe the overriding rationale behind provisions like this is that they don't want attackers to be seen to be scoring with their hand/arm (although they have taken this to an extreme here).

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #718 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 02:59:15 PM »
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.

If you read the 4th bullet point from the bottom on this link highlighting the changes to the Laws of the Game, you'll find it does. In that situation, it hit the attacking player's (Laporte's) arm. Whilst accidental it hit his arm and under this definition it was the correct decision to rule the goal out.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of the new law change, but the decision based on the reading of the law in this instance was correct. I believe the overriding rationale behind provisions like this is that they don't want attackers to be seen to be scoring with their hand/arm (although they have taken this to an extreme here).

Helpfully I've forgotten the link, here it is: http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #719 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:08:19 PM »
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm
and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity

How does that in any way describe what happened on Saturday?

Laporte did not gain control or possession of the ball at any point. The only way you can get that paragraph to disallow the goal on Saturday is to add extra meaning to the words that aren't there, "oh yeah they meant if it goes to a teammate obvs". If they meant that, they should have written it.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #720 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:14:18 PM »
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm
and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity

How does that in any way describe what happened on Saturday?

Laporte did not gain control or possession of the ball at any point. The only way you can get that paragraph to disallow the goal on Saturday is to add extra meaning to the words that aren't there, "oh yeah they meant if it goes to a teammate obvs". If they meant that, they should have written it.

The bold part applies here. By Laporte's handball and touch onto Jesus, it created a goalscoring opportunity from which Jesus scored.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #721 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:18:18 PM »
He has to gain control or possession of the ball first, before that part of the sentence applies.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #722 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:23:33 PM »
He has to gain control or possession of the ball first, before that part of the sentence applies.

'New handball rules introduced this season state that any goal resulting from handball, accidental or otherwise, must be ruled out and Man City found out to their cost just how strictly these laws will be applied.'

Taken from the post-match report from BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49302583).

As I said before, I don't agree with these rules, but they are what they are and will be enforced to the letter of the law.

Offline Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #723 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:26:04 PM »
:lol: We're reading the laws themselves, why are you quoting a BBC article at me?

"By the letter of the law" which is what we're talking about, that goal was entirely legal. Laporte did not gain control or possession and BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW he (personally) has to do that, before scoring or creating, for it to be an offence. He did not, therefore it wasn't.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Offline TheNE40

  • New Member
Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
« Reply #724 on: Monday 19 August 2019, 03:33:39 PM »
:lol: We're reading the laws themselves, why are you quoting a BBC article at me?

"By the letter of the law" which is what we're talking about, that goal was entirely legal. Laporte did not gain control or possession and BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW he (personally) has to do that, before scoring or creating, for it to be an offence. He did not, therefore it wasn't.

Because the BBC (and their writers) are aware of the laws and their contents and wouldn't go out to misinform their readership.

I'll agree to disagree on this one. Looks like both myself, the refereeing team (Michael Oliver and the VAR crew) and anyone else who think it was correct to deny the goal were all wrong !