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Archives => Hall Of Fame => Topic started by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:48:01 PM

Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:48:01 PM
By just browsing the tables from the past 5 or 6 seasons, it seems that roughly 60 points is the target if you want to get 7th, which I think is a realistic, if slightly ambitious, target for us.

I think we'll be competing with teams like Everton, Sunderland and Villa, so I'll be tracking their results here as well.

Anyway, what I'm going to track is basically the actual points a team gets vs the expected points the team is supposed to get. I think the Premiership table at certain points of the season doesn't tell the full picture. Many times, teams that have good or bad starts only do so because the quality of the opposition, and it's not a true reflection of the quality of the team, so if you know how you're performing against how you're supposed to perform, then it can be comforting (or not). Chelsea, for example, started last season very well because they faced quite a lot of s*** teams.

Anyway, to get 58 points in a season - why 58? because the formula works better - you can lose all your matches against the top 6 away from home and draw against them at home. That gives you 6 expected points from 12 matches.

Then against everyone else, you're expected to win all your home games and draw all your away games, which is (13x3 + 13x1) = 52.

52 + 6 = 58. If any of Villa, Everton, Sunderland or us gets 58 points, I think that it'd be good enough for 7th place.

So, so far, we got one point against Arsenal, which was expected. Villa got a point away at Fulham, which was expected, Everton haven't played, while Sunderland actually got a point away at Liverpool, which is one more than was expected for them. Bolton won away from home, so they're at +2, Stoke got a point at home against a top 6 team so they're at 0.

Season: Up to Gameweek 21
Newcastle (+4)
Stoke (0)
Fulham (-7)
Everton, Sunderland (-8)
West Brom (-10)
Villa (-11)
Bolton (-15)

August results - GW 1 to 3
Newcastle, Stoke (+2)
Bolton (+1)
Everton (-1)
Sunderland, Villa (-2)
Fulham, West Brom (-4)

Actual Table after August
Newcastle (7)
Stoke, Villa (5)
Bolton, Everton (3)
Sunderland (2)
Fulham (1)
West Brom (0)

Even though West Brom have zero points so far, they are actually all right because of the tough set of fixtures that they've had - edit, actually they've had a real s*** run to start the season, they're already -4 behind the target. We're top of this little table so far, and doing better than we're expected to do. And although Bolton have only three points, they're still only one behind what they're expected to do, so they have some easy fixtures to come. It's still early doors so neither table is settled, but it gives a good indicator of the difficulty of the early fixtures so far, with Fulham having a completely miserable start to the season.

September results - GW 4 to 6
Stoke (+1)
Newcastle (0)
West Brom (-1)
Everton, Villa, Sunderland, Fulham (-2)
Bolton (-4)

Actual table after September
Newcastle (12)
Stoke (9)
Villa (8)
Everton (7)
Sunderland (5)
West Brom, Fulham (4)
Bolton (3)

We did well in September. We held our own, got the points that we were supposed to get and won the match that we needed to win, so we're still +2 in the table. Stoke had another good month, playing a few tough fixtures and getting one more point than expected. Even though they're 3 behind us in the actual table, they will have a bunch of easier fixtures. Comparing us and Everton is actually pretty interesting because they're actually 5 behind us in the actual table and in the expected table. At this point, both teams were expected to get 10 points, but Everton have only 7 while we have 12. So our 'ead over them is a strong lead which hasn't been boosted by easy fixtures. Looking ahead to GW 11, they're expected to get 1 point at home to Liverpool while we're expected to get 1 point away to Wolves. Both relatively difficult fixtures, but hopefully we come out with two more points from this weekend. Bolton had a miserable month but they've had many difficult fixtures so they will have the opportunity to make up the points in the actual table. They are interestingly tied with Everton in the expected table, which shows how tough their opening fixtures have been, although September was brutal for them. Fulham and West Brom have both had horrible starts, backed up by the actual table and the expected table.

October results - GW 7 to 10
Newcastle (+4)
West Brom (+1)
Everton (0)
Sunderland, Fulham (-2)
Bolton (-3)
Villa (-3)
Stoke (-4)

Actual table after October results
Newcastle (22)
Villa, Stoke (12)
West Brom (11)
Everton, Fulham, Sunderland (10)
Bolton (6)

It was a brilliant month for us. +4 is amazing, with the two away wins doing the job for us. We're flying high in this projected table and in the actual table as well. There's not much to say about us, really. Villa continue to drop easy points and now their position in the actual table is starting to reflect the amount of points that they've dropped so far. They also have a lot of difficult fixtures coming up so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up near 15th by the halfway stage of the season. Most of the other teams did ok this month, and of course the fact that most teams dropped behind the target isn't a surprise since it's expected that only one team will come near 58 points.

Looking ahead, November is actually a pretty chilled month for us because we aren't expected to pick up that many points, but the Everton match is actually crucial because a loss will mean a 5 point swing; -3 for us, +2 for them, so hopefully we can win and have a lead of 10 points in the expected table, and 15 points in the real table.

I think it's also pretty noteworthy that we are +6 overall if we're targeting 7th, but we're +2 if we're targeting 4th (70 points - win all your home games, draw away against everyone but the top 6), and interestingly Liverpool are at 0 if they're targeting 4th. ;) It's just something that I don't think many expected before the start of the season.

November results - GW 11 to 13
Newcastle, Everton (+1)
Fulham (0)
West Brom, Villa (-1)
Bolton, Stoke (-4)
Sunderland (-5)

Actual table after November
Newcastle (26)
Villa, Everton (16)
Stoke (15)
West Brom (14)
Fulham (12)
Sunderland (11)
Bolton (9)

Projected Final Table (after November results)
Newcastle (65)
Everton (56)
West Brom, Stoke (53)
Villa, Fulham (50)
Bolton (48)
Sunderland (47)

It was another great month for us. It's the third time in four months that we have been the best team out of the 8 teams that I have in this mini-competition. We had 3 tough fixtures, and came out with one more point than what was expected of us. We have a good lead in the real table of 10 points, which although isn't much, is still quite substantial. And now our lead in the projected table is also 9 points, which mirrors our lead in the real table. It shows that we've gone through our tough fixtures well and gotten enough points out of them. From now on the difficulty of our fixtures is similar to Everton's, which means that the ten point lead will be tougher for them to bridge. Stoke are dropping back gradually, and I think we can already rule out Sunderland, Bolton, Villa and Fulham from the race to 7th because they are far, far behind us in the expected table, and most of them are far back in the real table as well.

Our rival is obviously Everton, and it's worth noting here that their last three months have been -2, 0 and +1, for a total of -1. They're on form. They're getting the points that they need to get to 58 points, but they have some catching up to do because they lost some easy points at the start of the season. If we lose form then they will catch up very quickly.

The interesting case here is actually Villa, who have 16 points, tied with Everton. But they're a massive 6 points behind Everton in the expected table, which means the table thinks that they've got a lot of tough fixtures to come. And what do you know, look at their next set of fixtures. Three of their next four are against Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then they have two straight away matches to Stoke and Chelsea. I think they'll sink very soon.

I also included the projected table here for the first time. I think the 65 points that we're projected to get is actually quite feasible, and would easily get us 7th. Whisper it quietly, but 65 points would probably mean that we challenge for 4th for much of the season

This is up to November so far. Let's hope the table (real and projected) looks as beautiful as it does today in a month's time.

December results - GW 14 - 19
Stoke, Villa (+2)
Sunderland (+1)
Fulham (0)
West Brom (-2)
Everton (-3)
Newcastle (-5)
Bolton (-7)

Actual Table after December
Newcastle (30)
Stoke (26)
Everton (24)
Villa (23)
West Brom (22)
Sunderland (21)
Fulham (20)
Bolton (13)

Projected Final Table (after December results)
Newcastle (60)
Stoke (55)
Everton (53)
Villa (52)
West Brom (51)
Fulham (50)
Sunderland (48)
Bolton (41)

Disastrous month for us. Absolutely horrible. We f***ed up two easy home games in a row, losing 5 points in the process. The away win at Bolton salvaged some points for the month for us but it was a really terrible month. Only Bolton had a worse month. Stoke and Villa made up seven points on us. But, we were lucky that we had a built a good buffer so we still ended the month with a good 5 point lead in the expected table, and a 4 point lead in the real table, which means that we're expected to get one more point in the second half of the season than Stoke. It's a way of saying that our fixture list is easier than theirs by 1 point in the second half of the table.

Looking at other teams, Everton made up a few points on us, but they're still 7 behind us in the expected table, and 6 points behind in the real table, which means - again - that their fixtures are harder than ours by 1 point in the second half of the season. It's interesting to see that by this definition, we have the easiest fixtures out of every team we're competing with in the second half of the season, even if it's only by 1 point. We're 9 ahead of Sunderland in the real table but 12 ahead of them in the expected table, which means that their fixtures are harder than ours by 3 points in the second half of the season.

And if you look at it carefully you will see that Bolton are projected to reach 41 points if they play like a 7th place team from now on in. That's going to be a tough ask. They might not even reach 30 points at this rate.

We still have a decent lead, and we're still expected to reach 60 points, which means we've had a very good first half to the season. We could have had an amazing half if our December was slightly more respectable, but anyway, everything is still going ok.

January results - GW 20 to 23
Stoke (+3)
Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton (+2)
Fulham (+1)
West Brom, Everton (-3)
Villa (-5)

Projected Final Table (after January results)

February results

Projected Final Table (after February results)

March results

Projected Final Table (after March results)

April results

Projected Final Table (after April results)

May results
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:49:49 PM
I think you missed a 1 out in your estimation of where we might finish.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: EthiGeordie on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:50:05 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Doctor Zaius on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:51:17 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:53:22 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

But we'll see. Maybe this season things will be all shook up (uh-huh-huh).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:54:26 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.

From one extreame to the next.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:54:44 PM
I think it's an ambitious target for us, and yeah, obviously Villa and Everton are the favorites for 7th. But doing a 'battle for 10th' thread would have been f***ing s*** :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:55:04 PM
Think it could be interesting to follow even if we drop out of contention.

I would include Stoke, Fulham, WBA, and Bolton as well. Teams can be eliminated if they get to -15 or something.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:55:56 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:57:02 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.

Even if we don't get a striker (we will), we're going to be nowhere near relegation.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:57:27 PM
Think it could be interesting to follow even if we drop out of contention.

I would include Stoke, Fulham, WBA, and Bolton as well. Teams can be eliminated if they get to -15 or something.

No surprise that an American is on board with a statistics-based thread :thup: :lol:

Yeah, I'll include those teams as well and will update the OP once every few weeks.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:59:05 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.

Define 'two fantastic players'
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 14 August 2011, 03:59:27 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.

Even if we don't get a striker (we will), we're going to be nowhere near relegation.

Absolutely
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:01:28 PM
while I wouldn't bet on us getting 7th its an interesting enough battle, theres a load of teams in the middle of the table which are similar enough in ability
If Everton scratch enough cash together for a decent striker they'll get it but my bets on Bolton (again need a striker)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:01:44 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.

Even if we don't get a striker (we will), we're going to be nowhere near relegation.

:thup: As I say, I think you'll finish top 10. That said, I think getting Ben Arfa back soon-ish is key and getting plenty of games out of him.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AliGupter on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:05:05 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.

Define 'two fantastic players'

Iniesta and Messi.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:05:08 PM
I see the 'rivals' like this:

Man U, Chelsea - Battle for the title
Man City, Arsenal - Battle for 2nd/3rd.
Liverpool, Spurs - Battle for 4th/more likely 5th
Everton, Fulham, Villa - Battle for 7th/8th
Newcastle, Sunderland, WBA, Stoke, Bolton - Battle for top ten/midtable
Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR - Battle to avoid relegation


Chopped and changed Villa - put them in the group above based purely on having a prolific goalscorer like Bent up top for them, but they could easily be in our group of rivals.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BooBoo on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:05:20 PM
7th is ridiculous. Top half and we'll have done very well.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:05:33 PM
Think it could be interesting to follow even if we drop out of contention.

I would include Stoke, Fulham, WBA, and Bolton as well. Teams can be eliminated if they get to -15 or something.

No surprise that an American is on board with a statistics-based thread :thup: :lol:

Yeah, I'll include those teams as well and will update the OP once every few weeks.

 :lol:

If you could add some graphs that would be great. Oh, and weekly updates!

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SimplyAnth on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:07:49 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.

Why this week?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:08:18 PM
I see the 'rivals' like this:

Man U, Chelsea - Battle for the title
Man City, Arsenal - Battle for 2nd/3rd.
Liverpool, Spurs - Battle for 4th/more likely 5th
Everton, Fulham, Villa - Battle for 7th/8th
Newcastle, Sunderland, WBA, Stoke, Bolton - Battle for top ten/midtable
Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR - Battle to avoid relegation


Chopped and changed Villa - put them in the group above based purely on having a prolific goalscorer like Bent up top for them, but they could easily be in our group of rivals.

Everton will be comfortable for 7th like they are most seasons. Villa team has got worse and 73 games against Eastern European part time farmers will knack Fulham.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:09:43 PM
Interesting idea and thread :thup:

Look forward to following it with healthy scepticism ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:09:53 PM
City will finish well above Arsenal like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:14:15 PM
It's obvious that the final actual table will be the same as the final expected table, because all matches have been played. I think it'd be interesting to look at 10 games into the season, to see which teams are performing above expectations, even if their performance isn't reflected in the real table because of the quality of the opposition. I think I'll also do a 'form' table based on the last 8 matches to see how teams are doing against what they were expected to do over the last 8 matches.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:15:36 PM
Think it could be interesting to follow even if we drop out of contention.

I would include Stoke, Fulham, WBA, and Bolton as well. Teams can be eliminated if they get to -15 or something.

No surprise that an American is on board with a statistics-based thread :thup: :lol:

Yeah, I'll include those teams as well and will update the OP once every few weeks.

 :lol:

If you could add some graphs that would be great. Oh, and weekly updates!



I'll let thomas handle the graphs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:18:11 PM
FWIW I think Everton are a shoe-in for 7th and we will be a fair few points adrift somewhere between 10th and 12th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: toontownman on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:19:59 PM
Our position depends entirely on how long it takes our side to gel, we are a long ways off right now and missing at least four key players, two of which haven't joined the club yet!

On paper I think we have improved over the summer but teams like everyone and even way big Bolton yesterday have got their consistent flow already.

Do we have the players and potential to finish 7th? With two or more decent signings I would say so. But I think we won't see the team coming into itself until nearer Christmas. I will stick with 9th if we click, think too many games and points will be dropped before we start working.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:20:29 PM
I see the 'rivals' like this:

Man U, Chelsea - Battle for the title
Man City, Arsenal - Battle for 2nd/3rd.
Liverpool, Spurs - Battle for 4th/more likely 5th
Everton, Fulham, Villa - Battle for 7th/8th
Newcastle, Sunderland, WBA, Stoke, Bolton - Battle for top ten/midtable
Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR - Battle to avoid relegation


Chopped and changed Villa - put them in the group above based purely on having a prolific goalscorer like Bent up top for them, but they could easily be in our group of rivals.

No reason why someone from the battle for top ten group couldn't push on for 7th or 8th. It's a good goal at least.

Also, if ManU/Chelsea are battling for the title, then wouldn't Man City/Arsenal be for 3rd/4th and Liverpool/Spurs be for 5th?

IMO, Man City belongs with Man United/Chelsea though I think it's really ManU then everyone else. Arsenal will be battling for 4th with Liverpool/Spurs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cr4igora on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:25:25 PM
No reason why someone from the battle for top ten group couldn't push on for 7th or 8th. It's a good goal at least.
Agreed  :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:25:39 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.

Define 'two fantastic players'

For us right now, two fantastic signings would be akin to Tiote signing of last year at this time.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Doctor Zaius on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:26:47 PM
Think people are being very optimistic given that, as it stands, if Demba Ba gets an injury or doesnt happen to hit the ground running, we're relying on Shola, Lovenkrands and Best to get our goals. 

If we dont get another striker in, i honestly fear for us like. Relegation battle is probably a little on the pessimistic side like but never the less, we will be struggling for goals without another forward.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:27:43 PM
The other point I'll make here is that I din't think Spuds certain to be in the top 6, I think there are problems ahead for that team, I certainly wouldn't regard them as the media do as part of the big 6 now that can win the title.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:29:24 PM
Think people are being very optimistic given that, as it stands, if Demba Ba gets an injury or doesnt happen to hit the ground running, we're relying on Shola, Lovenkrands and Best to get our goals. 

If we dont get another striker in, i honestly fear for us like. Relegation battle is probably a little on the pessimistic side like but never the less, we will be struggling for goals without another forward.

Very true, I do think this year there is going to be a lot of dross at the bottom, which should keep us safe from danger.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:30:02 PM
unless we sign twp fantastic players this week, we are not finishing in the top 10. Neil's right we are no rivals to Everton and the like right now.

Define 'two fantastic players'

For us right now, two fantastic signings would be akin to Tiote signing of last year at this time.

For me at least we need another forward and a left back, while I'd obviously like the forward to be 'fantastic' I don't think it will make or break our top ten chances. I think you over-estimate the strength of the league.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Conjo on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:31:01 PM
Cool concept for a thread. Hope you keep it updated through the season in OP so we can follow.  O0 :clap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Sunday 14 August 2011, 04:42:16 PM
Depends very much on the calibre of the striker and left back we bring in.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: alexthegreat on Monday 15 August 2011, 10:16:59 PM
By just browsing the tables from the past 5 or 6 seasons, it seems that roughly 60 points is the target if you want to get 7th, which I think is a realistic, if slightly ambitious, target for us.

I think we'll be competing with teams like Everton, Sunderland and Villa, so I'll be tracking their results here as well.

Anyway, what I'm going to track is basically the actual points a team gets vs the expected points the team is supposed to get. I think the Premiership table at certain points of the season doesn't tell the full picture. Many times, teams that have good or bad starts only do so because the quality of the opposition, and it's not a true reflection of the quality of the team, so if you know how you're performing against how you're supposed to perform, then it can be comforting (or not). Chelsea, for example, started last season very well because they faced quite a lot of s*** teams.

Anyway, to get 58 points in a season - why 58? because the formula works better - you can lose all your matches against the top 6 away from home and draw against them at home. That gives you 6 expected points from 12 matches.

Then against everyone else, you're expected to win all your home games and draw all your away games, which is (13x3 + 13x1) = 52.

52 + 6 = 58. If any of Villa, Everton, Sunderland or us gets 58 points, I think that it'd be good enough for 7th place.

So, so far, we got one point against Arsenal, which was expected. Villa got a point away at Fulham, which was expected, Everton haven't played, while Sunderland actually got a point away at Liverpool, which is one more than was expected for them. Bolton won away from home, so they're at +2, Stoke got a point at home against a top 6 team so they're at 0.

Last update: Gameweek 1
Bolton (+2)
Sunderland (+1)
Newcastle, Villa, Everton, Stoke (0)
West Brom (-1)
Fulham (-2)

Anyway, next week, Sunderland are expected to beat us, while we're only expected to get a point against them. If Sunderland beat us, their 'points' tally will still be +1 because the victory was expected, while our points tally will be -1 with a defeat, 0 with a draw, and +2 with a win.

I'll update this once every few weeks to see how all the teams are doing.

60 points does seem a little bit ambitious to me. We've only cleared 58 points twice in the last 14 years. Really don't think this is going to be the year we do it
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Conjo on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:16:16 AM
Pip: If you want to spend even more time, make up a table where you can see what category of games the teams pick up most points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:28:24 AM
60 points is equal to 20 wins. No way are we going to get something like that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Andy on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:42:37 AM
FWIW I think Everton are a shoe-in for 7th and we will be a fair few points adrift somewhere between 10th and 12th.

Thought I'd put this in bold for Dave since he nearly always corrects this error.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Segun Oluwaniyi on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:43:52 AM
60 points is equal to 20 wins. No way are we going to get something like that.
This is a very stupid post.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:44:18 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 04:01:29 AM
58 points is 13 wins, 19 draws and 6 defeats. Obviously teams will probably win a couple more and lose more than six games, but for all intents and purposes, what I've set out will do.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: n4e on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 04:11:23 AM
60 points is equal to 20 wins. No way are we going to get something like that.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7971/dooggg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 08:57:48 AM
60 points is equal to 20 wins. No way are we going to get something like that.

Fkn Hell.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 09:05:37 AM
17th?





tight arsed owner
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Northern Monkey on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:06:40 PM
7th place?? Not while we have Ashley and/or Pardew. Absolutely no chance.

We need to aim for 16th/17th.

Terrible owner (do NOT try the "he keeps us afloat crap", thats nowhere near true), poor manager, amnd a team that man-for-man is worse than the one that got relegated. So 7th?? muahahaha.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 12:08:49 PM
7th place?? Not while we have Ashley and/or Pardew. Absolutely no chance.

We need to aim for 16th/17th.

Terrible owner (do NOT try the "he keeps us afloat crap", thats nowhere near true), poor manager, amnd a team that man-for-man is worse than the one that got relegated. So 7th?? muahahaha.

How's about you don't use the "this team is worse than 08/09" crap?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 01:50:46 PM
People laughing at my post. Have word with yourself man, the best possible way to get 60 points (in terms of games we are not going to get any points out of) is by winning 20 games. No way will we win 20 games, we will need to draw which then takes the amount of games we can afford to lose down again.

Any of you thinking we can achieve 60 points is f***ing deluded and retarded.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Tuesday 16 August 2011, 01:55:44 PM
People laughing at my post. Have word with yourself man, the best possible way to get 60 points (in terms of games we are not going to get any points out of) is by winning 20 games. No way will we win 20 games, we will need to draw which then takes the amount of games we can afford to lose down again.

Any of you thinking we can achieve 60 pints is f***ing deluded and retarded.

Psssst... Phil Mitchell, he's just called you f***ing deluded and retarded. :troll:


Wait, what? 60 PINTS?  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:24:58 PM
3 points for us? ;)

Bump. Quite tempted to sticky this, it's such a good idea.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:25:15 PM
Nobody reads stickies.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:26:55 PM
Nobody reads stickies.

You used to be cool.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:27:27 PM
I dont think Sunderland Are A realistic threat to our challenge for 7th
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:29:55 PM
7th place?? Not while we have Ashley and/or Pardew. Absolutely no chance.

We need to aim for 16th/17th.

Terrible owner (do NOT try the "he keeps us afloat crap", thats nowhere near true), poor manager, amnd a team that man-for-man is worse than the one that got relegated. So 7th?? muahahaha.

16th/17th?!?!  So we should aim to do worse than last season?

Words fail me.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:32:18 PM
I don't normally visit this thread but today it would be churlish not to.

7th? That's a step down from where I'm looking  :shifty:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:34:40 PM
I dont think Sunderland Are A realistic threat to our challenge for 7th

On a serious note Sessigon (sp) looks like a decent player, but Gyan looks out of form right now, Colback (dirty judus b****** :)) had a much better game than at Liverpool where he was a liability. The resyt of their team is distinctly average and they just don't look like they have goals in them, which could be a big problem for them, they need to buy a decent striker before the window closes methinks.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: CheickMansour on Saturday 20 August 2011, 04:34:43 PM
I don't normally visit this thread but today it would be churlish not to.

7th? That's a step down from where I'm looking  :shifty:

 :snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 20 August 2011, 05:07:20 PM
+2 points for us, -3 for the scum today.

I'll update this after the Chelsea match.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Frazzle on Saturday 20 August 2011, 05:16:30 PM
Are you going to keep updating the first post pip?

thanks.  :-* :blush:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Saturday 20 August 2011, 05:17:05 PM
TBH I had us down for 2 defeats from these two games, so to have gotten 4pts off them is a fantastic return.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 20 August 2011, 05:17:35 PM
Yeah, I'll think I'll go all out with this s***. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Frazzle on Saturday 20 August 2011, 05:18:15 PM
cool, thanks  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 20 August 2011, 07:35:47 PM
Right, after the games in Gameweek 2's been played, the results for this week are:

Newcastle (+2)
Villa, WBA, Stoke (0)
Fulham, Bolton (-1)
Everton, Sunderland (-3)

Gameweek 1 was
Bolton (+2)
Sunderland (+1)
Newcastle, Villa, Stoke, Everton (0)
WBA (-1)
Fulham (-2)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Saturday 20 August 2011, 07:42:30 PM
I like the expected points section. You've taken this to another level. Bravo.  :clap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: KaKa on Saturday 20 August 2011, 07:46:12 PM
I dont think Sunderland Are A realistic threat to our challenge for 7th

On a serious note Sessigon (sp) looks like a decent player, but Gyan looks out of form right now, Colback (dirty judus b****** :)) had a much better game than at Liverpool where he was a liability. The resyt of their team is distinctly average and they just don't look like they have goals in them, which could be a big problem for them, they need to buy a decent striker before the window closes methinks.

The money they spent on Wickham could have got them Bendtner, give or take a million. Terrible waste of money.

I like Wickham but he's a luxury, as he isn't ready yet.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 20 August 2011, 08:09:12 PM
People laughing at my post. Have word with yourself man, the best possible way to get 60 points (in terms of games we are not going to get any points out of) is by winning 20 games. No way will we win 20 games, we will need to draw which then takes the amount of games we can afford to lose down again.

Any of you thinking we can achieve 60 points is f***ing deluded and retarded.

Newcastle    38    11    13    14    ---  46

Now let's take 3 defeats away and make them wins. 14  13  11  ---  55

Now, say we make a draw into a win as well. 15  12  11  ---  57

Perhaps not exactly 60 points, but certainly not beyond the realm of possibility should we actually just improve a tiny bit this season. Also we could be luckier and get more wins rather than draws but still lose the same amount. You catch my drift?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 21 August 2011, 03:18:36 PM
Might have to add Wolves +2.

And Arsenal -2.   :iamatwat:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Monday 22 August 2011, 01:52:10 PM
Might have to add Wolves +2.

And Arsenal -2.   :iamatwat:

Read the OP?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Monday 22 August 2011, 02:21:47 PM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Monday 22 August 2011, 05:08:30 PM
I don't get it.

Well he doesn't think either Wolves or Arsenal will be battling for 7th :P
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Jimburst on Monday 22 August 2011, 05:37:34 PM
I think that was the joke.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Monday 22 August 2011, 05:42:33 PM
I was being serious about Wolves. I don't think they'll be pushing for 7th, but might as well include anyone with a + number at this point.

Arsenal was a joke.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:09:28 PM
Gameweek 3 results:
Everton, Stoke (+2)
Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton (0)
Fulham (-1)
Villa (-2)
West Brom (-3)

with the West Brom v Stoke match 0-0 after ten minutes.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Segun Oluwaniyi on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:32:52 PM
No team outside the top six is definitely better than us. In fact, most of them are suffering from financial difficulties or have sold important players. Even Spurs look somewhat fragile, though I think they have too much sheer qua;ity not to finish in the top six places (same for Liverpool and Arsenal, imo.) I thought Everton, West Brom, Villa, and Stoke would finish above us (in that order), but if we have a proper end to the window, everything is possible.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:35:56 PM
A strange thing has happened over the summer. Well, not so strange.

The Liverpools, Citehs, Man Utds' have basically trawled the ocean floors of the Premiership (which to them is 7 and below) for talent and creativity, so I'm not so surprised to see so very many teams struggling to score goals outside the top 6.

Cba to calculate how many there have been, but we're doing quite well to continue scoring. 3 in 3 isn't bad for a team outside the top 6. :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:36:24 PM
No team outside the top six is definitely better than us. In fact, most of them are suffering from financial difficulties or have sold important players. Even Spurs look somewhat fragile, though I think they have too much sheer qua;ity not to finish in the top six places (same for Liverpool and Arsenal, imo.) I thought Everton, West Brom, Villa, and Stoke would finish above us (in that order), but if we have a proper end to the window, everything is possible.

:thup: There's a few little divisions in the league now. Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea. Arsenal, Spurs, bindippers slightly below that. Genuinely feel that most other teams past that have a shot at making up the rest of the top half, it's that unsure.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: johnnypd on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:41:54 PM
we're so close to having a breakout season, imo. been really underwhelmed with the football ive seen from teams outside manchester so far. Everton were abysmal vs Blackburn, Villa look mediocre, Spurs haven't kicked on, fulham will drift back to lower midtable this season, Mackems are laughable.

 a few more players and we'll be challenging for Europe. the full-backs are still pretty weak and harm our chances of playing possession football, we could do with a bit of actual quality from out wide (maybe Marveaux will give us that) rather than Jonas and Obertan's effort, and of course we need a striker to ensure the likes of Loven and Shola get minimal time on the pitch. 3 days, 3 transfers, let's do it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 28 August 2011, 03:45:32 PM
we're so close to having a breakout season, imo. a few more players and we'll be challenging for Europe. the full-backs are still pretty weak and harm our chances of playing possession football, we could do with a bit of actual quality from out wide (maybe Marveaux will give us that) rather than Jonas and Obertan's effort, and of course we need a striker to ensure the likes of Loven and Shola get minimal time on the pitch. 3 days, 3 transfers, let's do it.

I have thought and mentioned this for a while. We have the base of a very good football team. Our spine is good enough to give a good go for a top 6 place, but we just need some more depth in certain areas like the fullbacks and ST.

We'll have a few lulls here and there, but there's no reason why we can't end up in 7th because we have some real quality in the team (Colo, Tiote, Cabaye, Marveaux, HBA). We're still probably four players away from our best first eleven and we're still able to compete and win matches, which is a good sign for the rest of the season. I still think that HBA is the key. He's the one who changes everything; he's our Suarez, the guy who makes everything tick.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Friday 2 September 2011, 01:19:22 AM
i like this thread alot, like the idea of it, until we lose 2 home games that we shouldnt have in a  row that is, and we get a minus 6...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Friday 2 September 2011, 02:24:49 AM
:lol: let's hope that doesn't happen, then
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Shayno on Friday 2 September 2011, 02:31:13 AM
Still think we could finish top 8 which would be a success imo
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Friday 2 September 2011, 03:34:09 AM
7th is the new 4th?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Friday 2 September 2011, 03:50:02 AM
i like this thread alot, like the idea of it, until we lose 2 home games that we shouldnt have in a  row that is, and we get a minus 6...

 :lol:

Same  - I'll love this thread until we're staring at a negative number. Games like the next one are crucial to building a buffer so when the inevitable losses to the Manchester teams and Wigan happen we're still in good shape. 10 points after four games would be a phenomenal start.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sydneycove on Friday 2 September 2011, 08:35:22 AM
i like this thread alot, like the idea of it, until we lose 2 home games that we shouldnt have in a  row that is, and we get a minus 6...

 :lol:

Same  - I'll love this thread until we're staring at a negative number. Games like the next one are crucial to building a buffer so when the inevitable losses to the Manchester teams and Wigan happen we're still in good shape. 10 points after four games would be a phenomenal start.

A win there would cement Pardew as our greatest manager of the decade :D
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roger Kint on Friday 2 September 2011, 08:44:03 AM
i like this thread alot, like the idea of it, until we lose 2 home games that we shouldnt have in a  row that is, and we get a minus 6...

 :lol:

Same  - I'll love this thread until we're staring at a negative number. Games like the next one are crucial to building a buffer so when the inevitable losses to the Manchester teams and Wigan happen we're still in good shape. 10 points after four games would be a phenomenal start.

A win there would cement Pardew as our greatest manager of the decade :D

Were you born after 2 January 2011 or just oblivious to it?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sydneycove on Friday 2 September 2011, 08:50:05 AM
It was a joke about our poor home performances against Wigan  :facepalm:

Or did MA trade up and sell us off to Whelan who relocated our home ground to be JJB Stadium?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roger Kint on Friday 2 September 2011, 08:51:03 AM
It was a joke about our poor home performances against Wigan  :facepalm:

Aye the use of the word 'there' made it so clear like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Rainforest on Friday 2 September 2011, 09:44:09 AM
Think bin-dippers is definately on par if not above Tottenham this season... same can be said for arsenal perhaps, yet to see how much Nasri and Fabregas really meant to them..
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Friday 2 September 2011, 09:56:12 AM
Everton, Villa, Stoke...think if we finish above two of them we'll finish top 8.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Rainforest on Friday 2 September 2011, 09:59:31 AM
Well, Bent will probably hammer in 20 goals for villa, thats a given. So I Guess we have to rely on someone to do the same here. Step up Demba
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Saturday 10 September 2011, 01:36:21 AM
Well, Bent will probably hammer in 20 goals for villa, thats a given. So I Guess we have to rely on someone to do the same here. Step up Demba

(http://goalkeepermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shay-Given-for-GoalkeeperMagazine.com_1.jpg)

 :pow:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 12 September 2011, 12:42:52 PM
Gameweek 4 results:
Stoke, West Brom (+2)
Villa (0)
Sunderland, Bolton (-1)
Everton, Fulham (-2)

with us to play. OP will be updated tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 12 September 2011, 12:44:02 PM
:lol: I admire your persistence with this project, Pip.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Martin Lol on Monday 12 September 2011, 03:33:14 PM
I find it interesting to be honest.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 12 September 2011, 04:18:34 PM
Aye :thup: OP looks even sexier with the new layout :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Saturday 17 September 2011, 05:17:12 PM
battle for 4th??
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 17 September 2011, 05:17:33 PM
CP40 knows. :smitten:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 17 September 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Right, after five weeks:

Gameweek 1:
Bolton (2)
Sunderland (1)
Villa, Newcastle, Stoke (0)
West Brom (-1)
Fulham (-2)

Gameweek 2:
Newcastle (2)
Villa, West Brom, Stoke (0)
Fulham, Bolton (-1)
Sunderland, Everton (-3)

Gameweek 3:
Everton, Stoke (2)
Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton (0)
Fulham (-1)
Villa (-2)
West Brom (-3)

Gameweek 4:
Stoke, West Brom (2)
Villa, Newcastle (0)
Sunderland, Bolton (-1)
Fulham, Everton (-2)

Gameweek 5 (so far):
Newcastle, Everton (0)
West Brom (-1)
Villa (-2)
Bolton (-3)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 17 September 2011, 06:18:59 PM
OP updated. Even though Villa have seven points so far, they've had the second worse start :lol:

I'm not sure if there's much significance early on in the season. I don't expect the 'expected table' to settle for some time, probably until we're getting close to about halfway through the season, but it's interesting that even though Villa are undefeated and are in the top ten in the actual league table, they obviously have a lot of tough fixtures to come. And West Brom, even though they only have three points so far, haven't had the worse of starts.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 17 September 2011, 06:25:14 PM
Still baffled by all this.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dokko on Saturday 17 September 2011, 06:26:21 PM
Still baffled by all this.

WTF is going on?

Its like handicapped football betting and all this 2.5 goals s***!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 17 September 2011, 09:07:00 PM
I prefer the "How long before we're in the bottom three" thread.

This is just baffling.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: morpeth mag on Saturday 17 September 2011, 09:09:00 PM
Can we not have a running total?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Disco on Saturday 17 September 2011, 09:09:04 PM
Still baffled by all this.

I'm definitely in this camp.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Andy on Saturday 17 September 2011, 09:10:40 PM
I think it's pretty easy to understand to be honest like. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Saturday 17 September 2011, 09:17:08 PM
Still baffled by all this.


pip has invented a new way of tracking progress. i find the old way of looking at the league table quite adequate.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Disco on Saturday 17 September 2011, 10:02:33 PM
Still baffled by all this.


pip has invented a new way of tracking progress. i find the old way of looking at the league table quite adequate.

Not American enough though is it?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Saturday 17 September 2011, 10:06:03 PM
You could be a fair few points ahead of us by the time we play you.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: johnnypd on Saturday 17 September 2011, 10:21:32 PM
looking at the fixtures i can see us continuing to do well for another month or so, but then we run into a wall of pretty tough games and we'll probably sink down to our more natural position. said after the two tough opening fixtures that we had winnable games up until late october, when we come into 5 more difficult games in a row (three of them man utd, man city and chelsea). be interesting to see if we can capitalise on playing lesser sides and then how we stand up to a tougher challenge.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 17 September 2011, 10:55:08 PM
looking at the fixtures i can see us continuing to do well for another month or so, but then we run into a wall of pretty tough games and we'll probably sink down to our more natural position. said after the two tough opening fixtures that we had winnable games up until late october, when we come into 5 more difficult games in a row (three of them man utd, man city and chelsea). be interesting to see if we can capitalise on playing lesser sides and then how we stand up to a tougher challenge.

I reckon 7 points from the next 4 games would equal a brilliant start. Wins against Blackburn & Wigan, and a draw at either Wolves or home to Spurs. Think we'll lose one though. Actually I think we should be looking at 10 points before we have that hard trio of games.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 18 September 2011, 05:10:45 AM
You could be a fair few points ahead of us by the time we play you.

Does that mean you're expecting more s*** performances against s*** teams from your side? Or are you talking about the actual league table?

We've got an easy run coming up, which means we won't be able to make up a lot of points. Winning against Blackburn and drawing against Wolves - which would be a good two matches - would leave us with no points gained in this metric because we're expected to pick up 4 points.

This table needs to be looked at in conjunction with the actual league table. Some teams that have had seemingly good starts - like Villa - have only done so because of the easy set of fixtures that they've had. Villa will plummet down the season before long when they start playing their tougher fixtures because they haven't built up enough of a buffer. We're two points ahead of schedule, which is brilliant because when we play the away matches in Manchester, any point gained is bonus. We won't have to 'catch up' per se because we win, draw and lose the games we're supposed to. If it all goes to plan we end up with 58 points and 7th place. But for Villa, if they don't pick up points against teams that they're expected to lose to, they'll be f***ed.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 18 September 2011, 10:34:01 AM
I think it's pretty easy to understand to be honest like. :lol:

This.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Sunday 18 September 2011, 10:39:25 AM
I think it's pretty easy to understand to be honest like. :lol:

This.


x2

I really like it.  Real potential here in this.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 18 September 2011, 03:41:16 PM
Gameweek 5:
Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland, Fulham (0)
West Brom, Stoke (-1)
Villa (-2)
Bolton (-3)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 18 September 2011, 03:56:11 PM
This is my favorite thread on the board at the moment. When I'm watching games I think about how it affects their +/- in this thread.

All hail Pip.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Sunday 18 September 2011, 04:59:02 PM
havent read all of op, cos it looks too complicated. but is it like a golf par for 7th place?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 18 September 2011, 05:03:47 PM
havent read all of op, cos it looks too complicated. but is it like a golf par for 7th place?

Yeah.

Home win against a non-top 6 side = par for the hole (or game)
Away draw to non-top 6 side = par for the hole (the game)

Home win against top 6 side = eagle
Away win against top 6 side = double eagle/albatross
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 18 September 2011, 06:50:19 PM
You could be a fair few points ahead of us by the time we play you.

Does that mean you're expecting more s*** performances against s*** teams from your side? Or are you talking about the actual league table?

We've got an easy run coming up, which means we won't be able to make up a lot of points. Winning against Blackburn and drawing against Wolves - which would be a good two matches - would leave us with no points gained in this metric because we're expected to pick up 4 points.

This table needs to be looked at in conjunction with the actual league table. Some teams that have had seemingly good starts - like Villa - have only done so because of the easy set of fixtures that they've had. Villa will plummet down the season before long when they start playing their tougher fixtures because they haven't built up enough of a buffer. We're two points ahead of schedule, which is brilliant because when we play the away matches in Manchester, any point gained is bonus. We won't have to 'catch up' per se because we win, draw and lose the games we're supposed to. If it all goes to plan we end up with 58 points and 7th place. But for Villa, if they don't pick up points against teams that they're expected to lose to, they'll be f***ed.

Oh I just meant in terms of us having hard fixtures coming up. Don't really have a game where we can say we 'expect' 3 points until deep into November.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Wednesday 21 September 2011, 01:56:22 PM
havent read all of op, cos it looks too complicated. but is it like a golf par for 7th place?

Yeah.

Home win against a non-top 6 side = par for the hole (or game)
Away draw to non-top 6 side = par for the hole (the game)

Home win against top 6 side = eagle
Away win against top 6 side = double eagle/albatross

:lol: superbly put :)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 24 September 2011, 06:05:40 PM
West Brom -2
Everton 0
Newcastle 0
Bolton 0
Fulham 0
[Stoke -1]

Form book week from the look of things, so far!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Saturday 24 September 2011, 06:07:33 PM
Battle for 7th? How about the battle for 4th?

 :troll:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Saturday 24 September 2011, 06:35:27 PM
If we are in late December, January time and are still in with a realistic shout then I'll get excited. We have made an excellent start to the season but it's still early days and one or two poor results could see us fall quite a few places.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:29:04 PM
Battle for 7th? How about the battle for 4th?

 :troll:

Just been looking at the full table and you do start to wonder just how well this team can do. Frightening stuff.  :frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: kirkwdavis2001 on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:30:03 PM
Champions League a very real possibility!!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ryan on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:32:14 PM
Automatic Champions League qualification tbf.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AlanSkärare on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:32:41 PM
Spurs are looking very good, Arsenal will get going and Liverpool - hurts to say it - all have quality superior to ours. But we're in harmony, and if we start winning away games and get results against the top teams. Who knows.


Wow, the hybris is really kicking in now. Well, it has been a while.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ikon on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:36:29 PM
Wonder how "good" Liverpool would be without Suarez though? By a mile their best player imo, apart from him they aren't exactly wow in my eyes.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:37:04 PM
Champions League a very real possibility!!

Simply has to be sarcasm.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Gorilla on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:40:56 PM
Tbh, I have no idea how good this side is, it could range from being in a relegation battle to qualifying for the europa league, guess well know around january.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 24 September 2011, 09:49:19 PM
Champions League a very real possibility!!

Simply has to be sarcasm.

Simply has to be sarcasm.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ujpest doza on Saturday 24 September 2011, 10:29:31 PM
Battle for 7th? How about the battle for 4th?

 :troll:
Don't you mean 3rd?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Rey Mysterio on Saturday 24 September 2011, 11:47:34 PM
Wonder how "good" Liverpool would be without Suarez though? By a mile their best player imo, apart from him they aren't exactly wow in my eyes.

I said a few minutes ago if you put Suarez in our squad we have the better squad. Their midfields shockingly over rated and Carragher is just s****.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ikon on Saturday 24 September 2011, 11:54:58 PM
Wonder how "good" Liverpool would be without Suarez though? By a mile their best player imo, apart from him they aren't exactly wow in my eyes.

I said a few minutes ago if you put Suarez in our squad we have the better squad. Their midfields shockingly over rated and Carragher is just s****.

Our squad/team certainly has potential to be a very good one IF we keep the core we've got and add a quality striker and LB and some cover for CB.

Those three additions should be top priority before anything else as it stands atm.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cubaricho on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:32:52 AM
A top quality striker and a top quality left back and our first team is in there with a shout.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ikon on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:35:52 AM
It confirms that im bored when i post the same thing in two different threads!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:42:48 AM
Our squad is too thin to compete for much higher than 7th, but that would be great and with a little luck possibly achievable, but I think we've had a great start, look definitely on course for a top 10 finish atm, but once injuries start to hit I think we'll have a tougher period of the season to come, and we've got to make sure that doesn't drag us down.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Revolution Number 9 on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:26:04 AM
The football poll on Sky Sports is 'Are Newcastle realistic top 4 contenders?' :lol:

So far its 9% yes and 91% no.
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:34:52 AM
With a bit of defensive cover and a top class striker we'd be shoe ins for 7th given our form so far. Bit of a shame,if defensive injuries hit we'll nose dive
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Si on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:41:05 AM
The football poll on Sky Sports is 'Are Newcastle realistic top 4 contenders?' :lol:

So far its 9% yes and 91% no.

Democracy works.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:42:48 AM
With a bit of defensive cover and a top class striker we'd be shoe ins for 7th given our form so far. Bit of a shame,if defensive injuries hit we'll nose dive

Imagine the boost a new striker could give us in January if we're still hovering around the top 6-8 places? Definitely need another centre-back, preferably one who can play full-back as well who's name isn't James Perch.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Parky on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:48:59 AM
With a bit of defensive cover and a top class striker we'd be shoe ins for 7th given our form so far. Bit of a shame,if defensive injuries hit we'll nose dive

Agreed.

Think the league is quite tame outside the top 3/4.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Sunday 25 September 2011, 08:38:34 PM
                   Krul
Simpson Saylor Colo Santon
                  Tiote
Marveaux   Cabaye    Jonas
                       Ben Arfa
                  Ba

                   Harper
Raylor Williamson Kadar Ferguson
Guthrie Abeid Vuckic Obertan
              Best Samiobi

Our squad isn't going to realistically get much better than that without dropping some serious cash (which isn't going to happen).  We really do have a great chance of 7th this year.  We may even get another striker and full back in January which will complete us IMO.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ginola on Sunday 25 September 2011, 08:51:30 PM
A striker and full back would complete us? CB is probably where we're the thinnest.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TherealnorthernTOON on Sunday 25 September 2011, 08:55:04 PM
A quality left back. Other then that mostly just get quality in depth and we can compete on all fronts we're in.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:14:41 PM
whon are the guaranteed top 6 ?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TheGuv on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:17:16 PM
whon are the guaranteed top 6 ?

Guessing:

Man Utd
Man Citeh
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
Liverpool
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: taps01 on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:19:44 PM
whon are the guaranteed top 6 ?

Man u, Man city, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:22:24 PM
I know it's early days but there's absolutely nowt outside the top 5 or 6 that has really impressed me this season. We're compact at the back, hard-working throughout and have that spark coming into the team now.

7th is ambitious but certainly not impossible. Our achilles heel will be injuries.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ikon on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:24:51 PM
And Liverpool aren't that good without Suarez, not that i think we'll end up higher than them like, but not totally impossible, depends on injurys as already been mentioned.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Doug on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:28:11 PM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Turnbull2000 on Sunday 25 September 2011, 09:41:22 PM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

Sad but true. But that's the same for most other clubs in the modern game. You can thank the expanded Champions League for that IMO.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Sunday 25 September 2011, 10:05:12 PM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

Dear me :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Sunday 25 September 2011, 10:07:39 PM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

Dear me :lol:

its true.


this s*** about doing it the arsenal way dosent ring true to me, cos Ashley is missing the bit where they get a few good years out the player on the way to a profit.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Sunday 25 September 2011, 10:16:33 PM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

Dear me :lol:

its true.


this s*** about doing it the arsenal way dosent ring true to me, cos Ashley is missing the bit where they get a few good years out the player on the way to a profit.

Did we get a few good years out of Hamann?

If a massive offer is made then yeah that player will most likely go.  That's something almost any club has to live with.  Of course it can be a big problem if that money isn't then available to put back in, that's the real worry but its not a downside of doing well.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: toontownman on Monday 26 September 2011, 04:12:06 AM
A spot on the top 7 is a possiblity if we can be there or there abouts by January. A decent striker, LB/RB and then a couple of squad cover places (CB/RW/DM) would see us really pushing on.

A striker, fullback and CB seems realistic enough for January. Hopefully we dont let any players leave (other than Perch, Lovenkrands, Shola, Ranger, younglings on loan) but you never know. Think its a bit of stretch for the board to spend money on a DM cover when they would say Guthrie/Gosling/Cabaye/Abeid can all play in CM. Likewise with RW (Obertan, Guti, Marveaux, Gosling, Guthrie and Raylor all having played there).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Monday 26 September 2011, 04:17:21 AM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

Dear me :lol:

its true.


this s*** about doing it the arsenal way dosent ring true to me, cos Ashley is missing the bit where they get a few good years out the player on the way to a profit.

Did we get a few good years out of Hamann?

If a massive offer is made then yeah that player will most likely go.  That's something almost any club has to live with.  Of course it can be a big problem if that money isn't then available to put back in, that's the real worry but its not a downside of doing well.

Hamann really wanted to go though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRC on Monday 26 September 2011, 05:14:35 AM
Wish people would shut the f*** up about this selling our best players. Every player we've sold was good business, we are 4th in the league, so shut the f*** up.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roids on Monday 26 September 2011, 07:52:30 AM
Wish people would shut the f*** up about this selling our best players. Every player we've sold was good business, we are 4th in the league, so shut the f*** up.
Well said, some people would still be moaning if we ever won the league. Miserable b******s, gotta give Ashley some credit, things are looking sharp on and off the pitch for us; best we've looked since SBR was in charge
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 26 September 2011, 07:56:29 AM
Ashley deserves f*** all credit for where we are, it's down to players and manager imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Monday 26 September 2011, 08:03:18 AM
Wish people would shut the f*** up about this selling our best players. Every player we've sold was good business, we are 4th in the league, so shut the f*** up.


no :p
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ovesbar on Monday 26 September 2011, 08:43:01 AM
Ashley deserves f*** all credit for where we are, it's down to players and manager imo.

Does he deserve any credit for the players and manager we have?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Monday 26 September 2011, 09:41:44 AM
Ashley deserves f*** all credit for where we are, it's down to players and manager imo.

Does he deserve any credit for the players and manager we have?

Course not, all down to blind luck apparently.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 09:45:30 AM
Ashley deserves f*** all credit for where we are, it's down to players and manager imo.

Does he deserve any credit for the players and manager we have?

Course not, all down to blind luck apparently.

 :lol:

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 09:48:17 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: icemanblue on Monday 26 September 2011, 09:57:29 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:08:13 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:14:13 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ocho on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:22:46 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

Everton and Stoke are two.  Everton always pull out of the bag somehow, despite playing without a decent striker for the last 5 seasons.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: dinotheprehistoricgeordie on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:23:39 AM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

Everton and Stoke of the top of my head.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:44:44 AM
The downside of our team doing well of course is that Ashley is likely to sell any of our good players in January if an offer is put in for them.

I don't think we'll see any of the key players sold in January, unless massive offers a la Carroll come in.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bealios on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:58:34 AM
Fantastic start, but the squad is thin. I think we have a good shot at 7th-9th this year, but an injury to Colo, Taylor (S), Tiote, Cabaye would have a serious impact.

Despite their relative ability to the rest of that list, losing Best/Ba or Simpson/Taylor (R)  ( :kasper:) in the next month would also cause a problem, if only because the replacements at the moment (assuming Santon needs a month or so to get to full fitness) are unlikely to be up for the job, although hopefully Ferguson's return alleviates the concern over cover at full back.

Striker, RB (or LB and move Santon over) and CB (cover) in January are a must. We can't reasonably expect more than that this season, and I don't think we will get more than that. If we get those players (and lose nothing in January), then I think we're in a good place to keep up the steady progression to a regular top 8 side that needs to be the realistic aim for the next few years.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Monday 26 September 2011, 12:29:27 PM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

As has been said, Everton and Stoke and er... Ah to hell with it, they all could.

/refusing to get carried away. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 12:37:01 PM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

As has been said, Everton and Stoke and er... Ah to hell with it, they all could.

/refusing to get carried away. :lol:

 :lol:

Anyway, I think Evertons luck of always coming good will run out this year.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: dinotheprehistoricgeordie on Monday 26 September 2011, 01:01:23 PM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

As has been said, Everton and Stoke and er... Ah to hell with it, they all could.

/refusing to get carried away. :lol:

 :lol:

Anyway, I think Evertons luck of always coming good will run out this year.

They're not lucky man. The only way I could see Everton being in any serious trouble would be if Moyes left.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 26 September 2011, 01:03:16 PM
Yeah Everton are not unlucky, they're just a good side with a good manager.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Monday 26 September 2011, 01:05:35 PM
http://www.evertontime.com/ (http://www.evertontime.com/)

It has to catch up to them eventually, Moyes or no Moyes.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 01:07:02 PM
More I look at the other teams outside of the top 5 or 6 then I really see nothing to be too worried about. Add to that a squad that now contains a very tough and creative midfield then I think you are always confident that goals will come.

As others have said I hope Mr Carr is beavering away as we type and getting us more gems for January.

Believe!!!!

Cringe.

:lol: Just a bit.
Not that I'm one to knock CT's positivity too much, but remain unconvinced that there's much chance of us getting any higher than 10th tbh. There's still plenty outside the top 5 or 6 capable of giving us a tonking.

So after

Man u
Man c
Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
Liverpool
???
???
???
Newcastle

Who are the three teams that so far you think have potential to finish above us? Mr Bottled Dog.

As has been said, Everton and Stoke and er... Ah to hell with it, they all could.

/refusing to get carried away. :lol:

 :lol:

Anyway, I think Evertons luck of always coming good will run out this year.

They're not lucky man. The only way I could see Everton being in any serious trouble would be if Moyes left.

Wrong jumble of words. I meant more that Moyes being able to keep getting good results with a squad that loses its best players and doesnt really spend is coming to an end.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 01:08:05 PM
http://www.evertontime.com/ (http://www.evertontime.com/)

It has to catch up to them eventually, Moyes or no Moyes.

 :lol: Thats what I meant!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Monday 26 September 2011, 03:22:19 PM
Didn't know where else to put this article.....
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12040_7204296,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12040_7204296,00.html)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Monday 26 September 2011, 03:27:59 PM
Its quite funny but I'd forgotten all about the horrific pre-season of Ben-Arfas injury, Tiote stranded, Cbaye and Bartons visa woes and all the twitter unpleasantness.

Quite amazing start all considered.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: magpie99 on Wednesday 28 September 2011, 05:57:58 AM
Despite their result at Sunderland last week, I still thinmk Stoke will be a dark horse for 7th along with us. We will probably fight it out with them, Everton, Liverpool, Villa

Top 4 will be the same as last year and if Spurs prob ably 5th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Wednesday 28 September 2011, 09:15:03 AM
Despite their result at Sunderland last week, I still thinmk Stoke will be a dark horse for 7th along with us. We will probably fight it out with them, Everton, Liverpool, Villa

Top 4 will be the same as last year and if Spurs prob ably 5th.

Depends how far they go in Europe.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:32:51 PM
Gameweek 6:
Newcastle, Everton, Bolton, Fulham, Stoke, Aston Villa (0)
Sunderland (-1)
West Brom (-2)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:41:22 PM
The season so far hasn't really proved much in terms of this battle for 7th (assuming it's as clear-cut as saying teams will be competing for 7th).

You've started well and should rightly feel confident about your chances of finishing higher than you may have thought, but you could equally hit a sticky patch and be looking at the bottom half. So long left to make any solid predictions.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dokko on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:44:31 PM
Absolute nailed on Everton go on a great run 2nd half of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:47:19 PM
Not nailed on, but there's no fluke we consistently do it.

However equally you have to seriously question why we always f*** up in the 1st half. Maybe if we're in the top 6 come January, we'll decide to do the opposite, just for s***s and giggles. Albeit no giggles.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dokko on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:52:22 PM
Not nailed on, but there's no fluke we consistently do it.

However equally you have to seriously question why we always f*** up in the 1st half. Maybe if we're in the top 6 come January, we'll decide to do the opposite, just for s***s and giggles. Albeit no giggles.

If you were 6th in jan you'd challenge (not saying you'd get) 4th spot.

Everton's 2nd half pickup is as inevitable as Bruces 2nd half decline.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Thursday 29 September 2011, 05:56:25 PM
Well, six matches in and only two teams are on track for the target of 58 points. I think it's an ambitious target and something like 55 would do, so any team that doesn't fall too far behind will have a shot at 7th. We - Newcastle - have started very well, assisted by some easy fixtures, but one of the most difficult things is to win the matches that you're actually supposed to win, and we're doing brilliantly in that respect. It's a promising start for us and getting close to 60 points should be our goal now, if it wasn't at the start of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Atticus on Thursday 29 September 2011, 06:06:42 PM
Haven't posted in this thread yet but just wanted to do so to give my appreciation, it's a really interesting read.

Regardless of the absolutes involved (like the definitive "top six") and the subjective elements (Pip just picking the teams himself, etc.), it's great fun to keep up with and will hopefully prove a somewhat accurate way of measuring how things will pan out in the longer-term.

Massive :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ash on Thursday 29 September 2011, 06:19:36 PM
Without wanting to hijack Pip's thread, I've been keeping a little table of my own to see how we're doing this season in comparison to the corresponding results from last season.

We're already six points better off which is pretty impressive in my opinion and should we pick up the three points on Saturday, we'd be eight points ahead after just seven games. For what it's worth too, we're five points better off from home games and one better off away from home.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Heron on Thursday 29 September 2011, 06:52:26 PM
Thankfully we'll be in 4th before the battle for 7th occurs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Kanji on Thursday 29 September 2011, 07:48:41 PM
Pip, this is a brilliant thread, finally decided to read through it. Nice work and great to follow, cheers mate.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 29 September 2011, 10:23:27 PM
Just for a bit of fun, I'm going to be updating last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's equivalent fixtures, and the three promoted clubs replacing the three relegated clubs (Brum with QPR, Blackpool with Norwich & West Ham with Swansea). I will be naming it the "Last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's and the three promoted clubs replacing the relegated clubs" table.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+48..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+32...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........71 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+20..........64  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+18.........63  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ...+6...........55  (7th, 54)
Newcastle United.................38...........+3...........52  (12th, 46)
Fulham................................38......... ...+5...........47  (8th, 49)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-5...........47  (14th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-6............47  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-8............47  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-12..........46  (9th, 48)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-18............42  (18th, 39)
Wigan Wanderers................38..........-19...........42  (16th, 42)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........41  (10th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-24............39  (19th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-18..........38  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-23...........37  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-23............35  (20th, 33)

We'll move up to 7th if we beat Wolves to gain 2 points, and Liverpool win at Everton to take 3 points off them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 29 September 2011, 10:32:32 PM
We've only got 3 points to defend over our next 4 matches too as we drew 3 of them and lost 1 last season so we could be touching 60 points soon.  :frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:17:15 AM
Extending on this theme, we only picked up 10 points from the same matches in our next 14 games last season, winning just one of them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:56:25 AM
Thanks for doing this, its very interesting.

Although Bolton are only three points down on their target after some very hard fixtures, you would think the loss of momentum and pressure on Coyle from the headline number of points they have from their games so far would prevent them getting results in the easier games to come.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: James on Saturday 1 October 2011, 10:26:50 AM
If you look at the first teams of us and Arsenal/Liverpool, there is not much difference. We have a couple of weak areas, and a weaker squad which means they should do better, but we should be improving.

On current form, a composite XI would be:

Krul
Simpson Taylor Coloccini Enrique
Gervinho Tiote Cabaye Jonas
Suarez Best

So basically, only three players from those two clubs are playing better than our own.

When you look at actual quality, we have:

Reina
Sagna Mertesacker Coloccini Enrique
Gerrard Tiote Cabaye
Gervinho  Van Persie
Suarez


So we still have players that could get into either team, and what is interesting is that our influential players are better, and Arsenal and Liverpool are relying on players finding form, whereas we are hoping our players stay fit and in-form.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: James on Saturday 1 October 2011, 10:35:08 AM
Looking at our rivals for 7th, the following team would be the form team:

Stoke
Newcastle
Bolton,
Everton
Villa,
Sunderland
West Brom
Fulham

Krul
Hutton Woodgate Coloccini Baines
Osman Tiote Cabaye Jonas
Agbonlahor Best

So again we appear to have the best players right now in the majority of positions.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Saturday 1 October 2011, 10:42:08 AM
I still don't get any of this   :undecided:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: broonalegeordie on Saturday 1 October 2011, 08:59:55 PM
Very interesting thread this one. Thanks for the effort.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:01:43 PM
+2 today :aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:11:54 PM
Battle for the title tbh :snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ash on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:13:28 PM
If you look at the first teams of us and Arsenal/Liverpool, there is not much difference. We have a couple of weak areas, and a weaker squad which means they should do better, but we should be improving.

On current form, a composite XI would be:

Krul
Simpson Taylor Coloccini Enrique
Gervinho Tiote Cabaye Jonas
Suarez Best

So basically, only three players from those two clubs are playing better than our own.

When you look at actual quality, we have:

Reina
Sagna Mertesacker Coloccini Enrique
Gerrard Tiote Cabaye
Gervinho  Van Persie
Suarez


So we still have players that could get into either team, and what is interesting is that our influential players are better, and Arsenal and Liverpool are relying on players finding form, whereas we are hoping our players stay fit and in-form.

Sagna/Kelly would be ahead of Simpson on current form.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Saturday 1 October 2011, 09:40:44 PM
Battle for the title tbh :snod:

Yeah. The CL spot is starting to look like a consolation prize right now. :bluestar:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 1 October 2011, 11:01:13 PM
Meaningless point of note: Statto.com's points prediction currently has us finishing on 57pts. Good enough for 7th last year, and a point behind 6th. It's 8th on their forecasted table.

Manchester United
Manchester City
Chelsea
Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton
Newcastle United
Aston Villa
Stoke City
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: madras on Saturday 1 October 2011, 11:05:34 PM
Battle for the title tbh :snod:
link that to rtg, there'll be apoplexy.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Sunday 2 October 2011, 12:08:09 AM
I think Everton will be raided in January
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 2 October 2011, 08:44:51 AM
"Last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's and the three promoted clubs replacing the relegated clubs" table.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+48..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+35...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........71 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+22.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+20..........64  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+4...........54  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+2...........52  (7th, 54)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........48  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+5...........47  (8th, 49)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-5...........47  (14th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-6............47  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-9............45  (11th, 47)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........42  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-18............42  (18th, 39)
Wigan Wanderers................38..........-21...........41  (16th, 42)
Norwich City..........................38.........-24............39  (19th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........38  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........36  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-23............35  (20th, 33)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 2 October 2011, 01:08:03 PM
Battle for the title tbh :snod:

:smug:

Oh yeah!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Heron on Sunday 2 October 2011, 01:09:34 PM
f***ing 7th. Divn't be daft man. FFS.
































































1st.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 2 October 2011, 08:43:41 PM
Today's results sees us move a point closer to Arsenal,

"Last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's and the three promoted clubs replacing the relegated clubs" table.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+48..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+35...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........71 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........67 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+22.........66  (6th, 58)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+19..........63  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+4...........54  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+2...........52  (7th, 54)
Fulham................................38......... ...+11...........49  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........48  (9th, 48)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-5...........47  (14th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-5............47  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-9............45  (11th, 47)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........42  (10th, 47)
Wigan Wanderers................38..........-21...........41  (16th, 42)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............41  (18th, 39)
Norwich City..........................38.........-24............39  (19th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........38  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........36  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-24............35  (20th, 33)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: OzzieMandias on Monday 3 October 2011, 09:23:31 AM
Wigan Wanderers?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 3 October 2011, 10:17:42 AM
Wigan Wanderers?

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 3 October 2011, 10:18:34 AM
D'oh. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Monday 3 October 2011, 10:22:04 AM
Meaningless point of note: Statto.com's points prediction currently has us finishing on 57pts. Good enough for 7th last year, and a point behind 6th. It's 8th on their forecasted table.

Manchester United
Manchester City
Chelsea
Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton
Newcastle United
Aston Villa
Stoke City

I think we'll finish ahead of Everton this season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Monday 3 October 2011, 10:31:48 AM
We have every chance to take the 7th place. Only thing for certain is the top 3 teams, and I reckon Tottenham will end up in 4th. Some class signings in January, and I will really get my hopes up.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 3 October 2011, 10:53:02 AM
We are competing with Villa, Everton, and Stoke for 7th imo. We'll know for sure by early November if thats going to hold up.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:12:20 PM
Gameweek 7:
Newcastle (+2)
Fulham, West Brom, Villa (0)
Stoke, Bolton, Everton (-1)
Sunderland (-2)

Another excellent week for us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:18:47 PM
Meaningless point of note: Statto.com's points prediction currently has us finishing on 57pts. Good enough for 7th last year, and a point behind 6th. It's 8th on their forecasted table.

Manchester United
Manchester City
Chelsea
Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton
Newcastle United
Aston Villa
Stoke City

I think we'll finish ahead of Everton this season.

Me too now, it would be a minor miracle if they managed to pick up enough points without any strikers and relying on Tim Cahill.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: James on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:29:17 PM
Villas Boas says we are in the title race :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:32:10 PM
I think it's between us and Villa. I thought Stoke but they don't seem to do well after a European tie so far. Everton will probably be there or thereabouts as usual but I just think us and Villa have players who can nick a match more.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: STM on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:51:59 PM
Villas Boas says we are in the title race :lol:

I love the way foreign coaches and players come into our league thinking "anyone can win it", i'm sure Ben Arfa said something similar the other week. It's actually quite refreshing and reflects the fact that on the continent other clubs do cause upsets. It's also nice to see that he has no concept of the "big four", although he's slightly mental if he thinks we are seriously in any title race.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:52:45 PM
I think it's between us and Villa. I thought Stoke but they don't seem to do well after a European tie so far. Everton will probably be there or thereabouts as usual but I just think us and Villa have players who can nick a match more.

Stoke's away record is positively atrocious. Always going to be a drag.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: teohgk on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:56:57 PM
Villas Boas says we are in the title race :lol:

not so bright after all , ain't he  :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Monday 3 October 2011, 12:59:57 PM
Villas-Boas is one of the few managers in the league I don't want to punch in the face.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Doctor Zaius on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:01:55 PM
Still cant see us finishing 7th. Think as the season goes on, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool will have too much quality. Can see us falling by the wayside so to speak as the season goes on. Still think we'll be there or thereabouts for a while and ultimately end up finishing top half. However, 7th is astep too far for me.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:05:30 PM
Still cant see us finishing 7th. Think as the season goes on, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool will have too much quality. Can see us falling by the wayside so to speak as the season goes on. Still think we'll be there or thereabouts for a while and ultimately end up finishing top half. However, 7th is astep too far for me.

An upgrade from relegation battle, though. :thup: You had a positivity transplant?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:06:47 PM
Seems optimistic, but look at the other teams fighting for it. I really don't rate Stoke at all, and think they'll be lucky to finish top half. As for Aston Villa and Everton, they're weakened if anything (Everton seriously lacking strikers, Aston Villa lacking game plan) Who else is there? Fulham? No f***ing way.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: robm on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:12:21 PM
Still cant see us finishing 7th. Think as the season goes on, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool will have too much quality. Can see us falling by the wayside so to speak as the season goes on. Still think we'll be there or thereabouts for a while and ultimately end up finishing top half. However, 7th is astep too far for me.
I thought it was assumed that Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool would be top 6 anyway so dont come into the mix?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bealios on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:21:27 PM
Although a great start, having actually watched most of the 90mins this season, we have definitely rode our luck a little - Wolves, QPR in particular, and we have also had better fixtures than most competing for 7th.

I reckon we will pick up around 10  - 12 points between now and when the January transfer window opens (12 games I think), and would hope that doesn't leave us too far behind the rest. At that point we will have probably played more of the supposed harder fixtures than most teams, and will have a better idea how realistic 7th place is.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:21:50 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:29:01 PM
Lee Dixon is quoted on the BBC website saying Arsenal look like struggling to make the top eight. Surely they'll still have more than enough to be 6th at absolute worst?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:29:06 PM
Anyway, just for fun, to get a top four place, 70 points is the target. A simple change to my formula would be that instead of drawing all your home matches against the top 6, you have to win all your home matches against them. The rest of the formula stays the same, and your target is now 70 points. We have 15 points from our first 7 matches. To get 7th, we need to have 11 points after 7 matches. So we're 4 ahead. To get 4th, we need to have 13 points. So we're actually 2 ahead ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:31:56 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

We've made a fantastic start, but forgive me if I say I'm going to read this post again at Christmas. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:32:40 PM
 :lol: I agree, Dave.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:34:46 PM
Lee Dixon is quoted on the BBC website saying Arsenal look like struggling to make the top eight. Surely they'll still have more than enough to be 6th at absolute worst?

I wanted them to win yesterday but realistically they are more likely to be our rivals for the 6th/7th spot that Spurs so I suppose it was better that they lost.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:36:37 PM
I did say that I think that we'll end up competing for 7th, and not 4th, but one can and should dream, especially when Ben Arfa hasn't had a sniff yet :laugh: :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:41:42 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

:thup: You are spot on, but as you say it all depends on injuries and what January brings. Also I desperately hope that we have seen the end of Shola Ameobi playing 90 minutes (or starting -> subbed off), because it's so important to play our best strikers, and get Ben Arfa in there. Also excited to see Santon, which I believe will be an excellent asset. If we manage to get a fullback, a CB cover and a Papiss Cisse-esque striker in January, there's no reason to settle for "just" a top half finish.

4th is a bit too optimistic though, even if Liverpool and Arsenal are basically s*** these days, they still have the quality to at least contend for the final CL spot. But as I said I think Tottenham will take it, and so it would be magical if we get a decent result against them. And I'd be smiling if we don't get absolutely trashed by the Manchester teams.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:47:35 PM
Lennon Modric Parker Bale
            vDv
          Adebayor

Kuyt Gerrard Adam Downing
          Suarez Carroll

Walcott Ramsey Song Wilshere Gervinho
                   RvP

Obertan/Marveaux Cabaye Tiote Jonas
               HBA
                Ba

----------------

You telling me our front six is that much worse than any of the others I listed? Especially if we take out a weak link like Obertan and play someone with technique, pace and guile like Marveaux. I like the Spurs front six, but it's injury prone as f***. The Arsenal one also won't have Wilshere for a while, and as good as Arteta is, Wilshere's better. I didn't rate the Liverpool team after they made all their signings and after seeing them play, I still don't rate them as being much better than ours. I would say all the other front six are slightly better than ours, but not by much, and certainly not by an amount that can't be bridged with a good signing in January. For what it's worth, I like the Everton front six as well but they're really s*** out of luck at the moment, otherwise there's no reason why they can't push for 4th.

I think our defence is much weaker than any of the other teams and it's compounded by how little depth we have there as well, but a good front six that controls the ball solves most of the problems that a bad defence usually face. Win our home matches, get some favorable decisions, wish for luck in the injury department and we won't be more than 3 or so points away from fourth place in January ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Monday 3 October 2011, 01:48:53 PM
If we get a quality full back and a good back up CB in January, we can finish 4th-7th, no doubt.
The question is, when will the wall pushers and Arsenal start picking up?  The top three is a closed shop, with the murderers, Arsenal and Spurs forming the next three.
But there is a huge gap between Arsenal (6th) and Everton/Villa (8-9th).  We should comfortably fill that gap.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:04:10 PM
I also think that it's a huge credit to us that we've only conceded four goals, by the way. Sure, we've gotten lucky along the way but in our past few matches, we have not given away too many clear-cut chances and that's due to the fact that we're controlling more of the ball. If we can keep this up - well, if our central midfield can keep up the intensity of pressure and the  composure on the ball - then we will be able to win the games that we're supposed to, and that's the most important thing for a team wanting to challenge for a place high up in the league. It's why the likes of Stoke will never really challenge for 6th - because their style of football is dependent on being successful at free-kicks, corners and throw-ins, and that's something that you won't get much of in away matches against the better teams because you won't see much of the ball. Our style of football - from the QPR game onwards - has been one which is easier to replicate in away matches, and that will help us pick up many, many points away from home. We basically dominated Villa for a good proportion of the match and the first half against Wolves was another excellent display. Like I said, we have a good team and we're playing good football. We haven't been super lucky or winning because of ridiculous refereeing decisions, so our position is on merit, and thus, something that can be used to project the rest of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:06:40 PM
Anything in the top 10 would signify a really great season tbh. The worry is that when we inevitably drop off and start sliding down the table people become disappointed with that, but really as long as way stay top 10 it's been progress. Remember despite being 4th, we've played no one, outside of Arsenal who are in a bad place right now. November will see us start to drop, for sure, that's going to be a killer month.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Lenny on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:08:37 PM
As much as I love our midfield/attack and it's potential, I'm not sure it's quite up to most certainly Spurs quality, and maybe the others.

We just don't know enough about our players yet. They have all made promising starts, but it's still very early for Marveaux, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Ba.

That being said, before the season even started I've been banging on at my mates saying that we should be targeting 7th place. It's definitely achievable.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Turnbull2000 on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:24:57 PM
Top four :lol:

Even talk of top seven deserves a mild lol IMO. IF we're still between 5th-10th after another 10 games, then fair enough. But until then, it's only realistic to consider finishing top half.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:37:18 PM
Villas Boas says we are in the title race :lol:

:frantic: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 3 October 2011, 02:44:32 PM
Btw I'm not sure why we'll be buying players in January. If we're doing particularly well then there will be no need to...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Monday 3 October 2011, 03:04:26 PM
Btw I'm not sure why we'll be buying players in January. If we're doing particularly well then there will be no need to...

Isn't player movement in and out is almost guaranteed every window - When was the last time we didn't bring in someone in January?


Edit: Quick check on .com suggests it was Souness' last season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:02:31 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:06:49 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:09:53 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

Aye. We found it out to our cost as well - playing on the Sunday after Thursday is a tough ask. Unless you have the quality and depth of a top team, it's invariably going to catch up with you.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:11:43 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

It's their away form - really. If you look at it, it's absolutely absymal. Their home form keeps them up there but like you say European games will take their toll.

That begs the question, if we did finish 7th and get into Europe just how f***ed would we be next season?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:12:13 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

Aye. We found it out to our cost as well - playing on the Sunday after Thursday is a tough ask. Unless you have the quality and depth of a top team, it's invariably going to catch up with you.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MW on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:15:02 PM
Think we'll finish 8/9th, after a few injuries.

Imagine if we just kept going and won the league :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:16:39 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

Are you off your tits?

We've had a cracking start, but not played anyone of note yet. Let's see if you're saying that after we've played Spurs, Stoke away, Everton, Citeh, Manyoo and Chelsea within 6 weeks of each other.

7th place would be an exceptional finish, considering the lack of investment in the squad.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:16:45 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

It's their away form - really. If you look at it, it's absolutely absymal. Their home form keeps them up there but like you say European games will take their toll.

That begs the question, if we did finish 7th and get into Europe just how f***ed would we be next season?

Just had a look at Stoke's away results, yeah their form on the road is pretty dreadful. It's early days yet to judge I guess but it's looking like after every European game, Stoke either lose/draw in the following PL game. So far, they've actually been playing away games after the midweek Europa League fixture. Hmmm.

Regarding your last sentence, we would be pretty f***ed next season, our squad size is too small to sustain a challenge in Europe and the PL.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skeletor on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:18:58 PM
Think we'll finish 8/9th, after a few injuries.

Imagine if we just kept going and won the league :lol:

I'd expect to be Rick Roll'd as we're about to lift the trophy.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Monday 3 October 2011, 05:21:03 PM
Stoke have scored 4 goals in 7 games this season and are still 8th in the league...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:13:58 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

Are you off your tits?

We've had a cracking start, but not played anyone of note yet. Let's see if you're saying that after we've played Spurs, Stoke away, Everton, Citeh, Manyoo and Chelsea within 6 weeks of each other.

7th place would be an exceptional finish, considering the lack of investment in the squad.

Hmmm, I think buying at least 3 first-team players (if not 5/6) in one transfer window is pretty good going. Especially when two of them are directly responsible for our 'good results'.


Or did you mean "considering we didn't spunk £35million on the squad in one go"?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SiLvOR on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:17:16 PM
After this brilliant start, I'm finding it very hard to calm down and not get my hopes up of us winning the league. However, I believe that if we can capture 7th, or even 6th that would be a huge achievement. I'd still be very happy with a top 10 finish come the end of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:22:36 PM
After this brilliant start, I'm finding it very hard to calm down and not get my hopes up of us winning the league. However, I believe that if we can capture 7th, or even 6th that would be a huge achievement. I'd still be very happy with a top 10 finish come the end of the season.

:nods:

I echo your sentiments.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:23:57 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

Are you off your tits?

We've had a cracking start, but not played anyone of note yet. Let's see if you're saying that after we've played Spurs, Stoke away, Everton, Citeh, Manyoo and Chelsea within 6 weeks of each other.

7th place would be an exceptional finish, considering the lack of investment in the squad.

Hmmm, I think buying at least 3 first-team players (if not 5/6) in one transfer window is pretty good going. Especially when two of them are directly responsible for our 'good results'.


Or did you mean "considering we didn't spunk £35million on the squad in one go"?

No Stu, I meant lack of investment in the squad.

For example, we have a very thin on the ground defence. If we get a serious injury to Coloccini or Taylor, we have to play James Perch.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:31:14 PM
After this brilliant start, I'm finding it very hard to calm down and not get my hopes up of us winning the league. However, I believe that if we can capture 7th, or even 6th that would be a huge achievement. I'd still be very happy with a top 10 finish come the end of the season.

I'm excited too but come on :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:36:14 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

Are you off your tits?

We've had a cracking start, but not played anyone of note yet. Let's see if you're saying that after we've played Spurs, Stoke away, Everton, Citeh, Manyoo and Chelsea within 6 weeks of each other.

7th place would be an exceptional finish, considering the lack of investment in the squad.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:38:55 PM
One thing's for sure: Everton certainly won't be finishing 'best of the rest' this year. They'll be lucky to finish 12th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:41:21 PM
Ah, s***. Cheers for telling me. I'll notify David and the lads, they'll be gutted.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:44:42 PM
Ah, s***. Cheers for telling me. I'll notify David and the lads, they'll be gutted.

You've been Ronaldo'ed. Sit down, take a few deep breaths then resume activity at a gentle pace.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:46:12 PM
Ah, s***. Cheers for telling me. I'll notify David and the lads, they'll be gutted.

You've been Ronaldo'ed. Sit down, take a few deep breaths then resume activity at a gentle pace.

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:46:29 PM
Ah, s***. Cheers for telling me. I'll notify David and the lads, they'll be gutted.

You've been Ronaldo'ed. Sit down, take a few deep breaths then resume activity at a gentle pace.

 :okay:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SiLvOR on Monday 3 October 2011, 06:54:14 PM
After this brilliant start, I'm finding it very hard to calm down and not get my hopes up of us winning the league. However, I believe that if we can capture 7th, or even 6th that would be a huge achievement. I'd still be very happy with a top 10 finish come the end of the season.

I'm excited too but come on :lol:

:lol: that was a bit OTT :D
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:14:26 PM
:lol: Obviously everyone's starting to get excited and thinking 'what if'. But of course very few are genuinely thinking we could keep the pace for the rest of the season. However, it doesn't half get me thinking positively about the future.

This all kind of reminds me of Sir Bobby, obviously with nowhere near that class of manager. But fair play, Pardew is genuinely trying his heart out to turn us into a more youthful, attacking side. I don't believe he can take us to the level Sir Bobby did for those few years, but I can certainly see us one of the 'best of the rest' as it were, challenging to reach the latter stages of cups, final Europa spot and at least top half etc.

From there, if we can get lucky with a class addition or two to do a Spurs and break up the pack from time to time, then all the better.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Norseman on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:15:30 PM
The last couple pages.. Those who think we are serious top four contenders :idiot2: :lol:

We'll have done very well to finish the season in the top half with thr current squad.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Wearside on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:21:12 PM
If we get a quality full back and a good back up CB in January, we can finish 4th-7th, no doubt.
The question is, when will the wall pushers and Arsenal start picking up?  The top three is a closed shop, with the murderers, Arsenal and Spurs forming the next three.
But there is a huge gap between Arsenal (6th) and Everton/Villa (8-9th).  We should comfortably fill that gap.

 :mackems: :mackems: :mackems:

Speechless.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BeloEmre on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:28:19 PM
If we get a quality full back and a good back up CB in January, we can finish 4th-7th, no doubt.
The question is, when will the wall pushers and Arsenal start picking up?  The top three is a closed shop, with the murderers, Arsenal and Spurs forming the next three.
But there is a huge gap between Arsenal (6th) and Everton/Villa (8-9th).  We should comfortably fill that gap.

 :mackems: :mackems: :mackems:

Speechless.
Good.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:32:12 PM
If we get a quality full back and a good back up CB in January, we can finish 4th-7th, no doubt.
The question is, when will the wall pushers and Arsenal start picking up?  The top three is a closed shop, with the murderers, Arsenal and Spurs forming the next three.
But there is a huge gap between Arsenal (6th) and Everton/Villa (8-9th).  We should comfortably fill that gap.

 :mackems: :mackems: :mackems:

Speechless.
Good.

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:35:18 PM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Wearside on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:37:34 PM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:39:24 PM
Go for it. Can't wait to see the 5 threads about it. :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BooBoo on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:40:00 PM
Wearside has been on the ropes recently. Not a single shred of credibility.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:40:20 PM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.

Can I save you the bother and type the responses on here now?

"2-1!!!1!!!!!1 1  HAHA!!!"

"FTM"

"9-1!!!!111! 1HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!"

"weeyz keyyz"
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mole_Toonfan on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:41:44 PM
I thought at the beginning of season we had a good chance of finishing in on top of the best of the rest aka 7th( granted i thought we would sign a striker  :lol: )

So obviously this unbeaten run has done nothing but make me optimistic but having said this i dont believe we are good enough yet to finish in the top 6( I hope iam wrong ! )

7th and going deep in both cups would equal a great season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:42:06 PM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.

Can I save you the bother and type the responses on here now?

"2-1!!!1!!!!!1 1  HAHA!!!"

"FTM"

"9-1!!!!111! 1HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!"

"weeyz keyyz"

Can't forget "Tats y weez alwayz hav tha claass lyk"
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Monday 3 October 2011, 07:56:29 PM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.

Didn't you get banned on there after last week's Tesco Value Lager induced outburst? :lol:
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 09:44:07 AM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

It's their away form - really. If you look at it, it's absolutely absymal. Their home form keeps them up there but like you say European games will take their toll.

That begs the question, if we did finish 7th and get into Europe just how f***ed would we be next season?

f***ed IMO,unless there's significant investment in a bigger more quality squad........ so f***ed.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 12:12:46 PM
Stoke's away form is abysmal, they have only got 16 pionts from a possible 69 in there last 23 away games since the start of last season, only scoring 16 goals. Imo if this carries on they will find it hard to get it the top 10.
Title: Re: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 01:17:53 PM
Stoke's away form is abysmal, they have only got 16 pionts from a possible 69 in there last 23 away games since the start of last season, only scoring 16 goals. Imo if this carries on they will find it hard to get it the top 10.

Didn't realise it was that bad like!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TheGuv on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 02:17:25 PM
Stoke's away form is abysmal, they have only got 16 pionts from a possible 69 in there last 23 away games since the start of last season, only scoring 16 goals. Imo if this carries on they will find it hard to get it the top 10.

Didn't realise it was that bad like!

And of course with that record they beat us last season :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 03:12:47 PM
Stoke's away form is abysmal, they have only got 16 pionts from a possible 69 in there last 23 away games since the start of last season, only scoring 16 goals. Imo if this carries on they will find it hard to get it the top 10.

Didn't realise it was that bad like!

And of course with that record they beat us last season :lol:

:sad: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 03:16:12 PM
stop with the 4th s*** man
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 03:57:03 PM
Do people really enjoy thinking about finishing something like 9th or 10th?

Honestly, man, just enjoy our position at the table. Dream a little, live a little. Be optimistic, enjoy life. We're 4th by merit, playing good football and have a very good first-eleven. Why not be optimistic - even if it's unrealistic - and dream about finishing 4th? If we can play our best line-up throughout the season then there's no reason why we couldn't, with a bit of luck. It's as simple as that. Enjoy this thought.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:02:57 PM
10th is drastically pessimistic. Not the position itself, but when looking at the teams capable of finishing top half. I'm still going for 7th, which would be wonderful. We should look to not fall too far behind the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:15:40 PM
I can honestly see us finishing as high as sixth this season - we're looking a very good unit, and will only get better as HBA and Marveux get involved.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ocho on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:22:12 PM
I can honestly see us finishing as high as sixth this season - we're looking a very good unit, and will only get better as HBA and Marveux get involved.

I honestly think we can finish above Arsenal.

I might be knee jerking, but from the last few performances - they look a shambles defensively, their midfield isn't great and a lot of pressure is on Van Persie to carry to score the goals as well.

I think Spurs and Liverpool are ahead of us, but 6th isn't completely out of our reach.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:24:26 PM
Do people really enjoy thinking about finishing something like 9th or 10th?

Honestly, man, just enjoy our position at the table. Dream a little, live a little. Be optimistic, enjoy life. We're 4th by merit, playing good football and have a very good first-eleven. Why not be optimistic - even if it's unrealistic - and dream about finishing 4th? If we can play our best line-up throughout the season then there's no reason why we couldn't, with a bit of luck. It's as simple as that. Enjoy this thought.

i'm enjoying it massively, but it's totally un-realistic to expect us to finish there. reasons being tougher opponents, likely injuries and pretty poor cover and a distinct lack of the chance of us strengthening in january.

why isnt expecting us to finish 6th-8th optimistic? it'll be a great season imo
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:40:28 PM
Do people really enjoy thinking about finishing something like 9th or 10th?

Honestly, man, just enjoy our position at the table. Dream a little, live a little. Be optimistic, enjoy life. We're 4th by merit, playing good football and have a very good first-eleven. Why not be optimistic - even if it's unrealistic - and dream about finishing 4th? If we can play our best line-up throughout the season then there's no reason why we couldn't, with a bit of luck. It's as simple as that. Enjoy this thought.

Spot on.

When we got promoted under Keegan I dont think anyone could quite believe how well we did in that first season. Or for that matter how well we did in the Championship season.

We have some very very good players at the moment and anything is possible. Isnt dreaming of what might be the thing that makes it so exciting?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:42:28 PM
Obviously, dreaming of fourth is very different to expecting it to happen or even thinking it might.

I'm enjoying our start to the season and our position a lot, but there's no way in hell we'll finish fourth.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: FrenchWilliam on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:45:41 PM
Today's results sees us move a point closer to Arsenal,

"Last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's and the three promoted clubs replacing the relegated clubs" table.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+48..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+35...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........71 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........67 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+22.........66  (6th, 58)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+19..........63  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+4...........54  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+2...........52  (7th, 54)
Fulham................................38......... ...+11...........49  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........48  (9th, 48)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-5...........47  (14th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-5............47  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-9............45  (11th, 47)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........42  (10th, 47)
Wigan Wanderers................38..........-21...........41  (16th, 42)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............41  (18th, 39)
Norwich City..........................38.........-24............39  (19th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........38  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........36  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-24............35  (20th, 33)

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but are you not basically just making the 2011/12 table?? I.e. in May, your table will just be the same as the actual table?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:50:08 PM
Do people really enjoy thinking about finishing something like 9th or 10th?

Honestly, man, just enjoy our position at the table. Dream a little, live a little. Be optimistic, enjoy life. We're 4th by merit, playing good football and have a very good first-eleven. Why not be optimistic - even if it's unrealistic - and dream about finishing 4th? If we can play our best line-up throughout the season then there's no reason why we couldn't, with a bit of luck. It's as simple as that. Enjoy this thought.

i'm enjoying it massively, but it's totally un-realistic to expect us to finish there. reasons being tougher opponents, likely injuries and pretty poor cover and a distinct lack of the chance of us strengthening in january.

why isnt expecting us to finish 6th-8th optimistic? it'll be a great season imo

You have given realistic reasons why we won't finish 4th. I agree with all your reasons, and I agree that finishing 7-8th would be a fantastic season. And yes, that is actually quite optimistic, as well. Now, let's say that by some freak nature, we have players who are Barca-like in their ability to stay on the pitch, which means we can play all of them 45 times this season and thus start our best eleven in every match. How far away do you think we'll be from 4th? I think we'll have a shot at 4th, if that happens. And yes, that means I'm being ridiculously optimistic by projecting our position based on the premise that we'll have no injuries, but it's a fun thought, isn't it? And it's certainly not something that is completely out of this world, too.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:53:16 PM
We could also have unbelievable, incredible amounts of luck in every single game this season and win the league.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:56:00 PM
That's just being unrealistic.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:56:35 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SiLvOR on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:58:17 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.

What team do you consider to be in with a shot at 4th?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:58:35 PM
That's just being unrealistic.

HYPOCRISY.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: James on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 04:58:40 PM
It isn't just injuries though pip, it is also about fatigue, form, and mental strength plus maintaining the luck we have had so far. To be honest if we get all that we might have trouble replicating our performance in future seasons.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cubaricho on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:00:10 PM
Anything in the top half and we've had a great season, anything above 8th and it's been fantastic.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:02:52 PM
Look lads the absolute most we can think about is 7th-8th really and that would be a fantastic season in the circumstances. I think the core of our team staying fit and the team spirit could carry us to that position but anything more is a total pipe dream.

In the short term it would be brilliant if we could get a result against Spurs though because the table will would look fab and it would prove the start hasn't been a production of purely the fixture computer. Everybody knows we'll fade away but it would be great to keep it up for just a little bit longer.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:06:01 PM
Anything in the top half and we've had a great season, anything above 8th and it's been fantastic.

Sums up my thoughts too.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:26:45 PM
7th is what we're capable of imo, if Arsenal want to keep being s*** then we could do slightly better.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:35:57 PM
7th is what we're capable of imo, if Arsenal want to keep being s*** then we could do slightly better.

 :nods: Think we're completely capable of being the best of the rest this season, despite Arsenal's poor start, I still see the top six being a closed shop for this season. The way I see it, the top half can be split into 3 groups of 3. The two Manchesters and Chelsea; Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool; then us, Villa and Everton. With a couple decent additions, we could definitely push on next season though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:36:21 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.

The top 3 teams are untouchable and those are Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham will be fighting it out for 4th spot and you can now probably discount Arsenal from that list as well. Liverpool and Spurs are good but not so far ahead of us that it's impossible to even dream we might finish ahead of them. Unlikely? yes. Impossible? Not while we're sitting in 4th and they are looking up at us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:44:22 PM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: buzza on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 05:48:32 PM
I reckon we can get into Europe this season. 5th or 6th place is a good aim, reckon the big guns have more experience and better squads than us (manu, mancity, chelsea, redscum, spurs). Battle it out with the arse if they ever recover.
Think we will sail a top ten finish...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 08:04:54 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.

This isn't quite true though is it? The teams being Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool. Arsenal is struggling, Liverpool will have they're usual share of extra s***-matches, and Tottenham depends on they're best XI staying injury free, like us. We're not as good as these teams, but to say "nowhere near" is way off the mark. If we were to beat Tottenham (f***ing start *cough* Ben Arfa and *cough* Santon), you can't really play the "lucky" card anymore.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 08:14:28 PM
All this talk of potentially finishing above Arsenal, f***, imagine if it happened. Parky would be gloating to f***, even though it took longer to happen that beating Benitez.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 08:57:50 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.

The top 3 teams are untouchable and those are Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham will be fighting it out for 4th spot and you can now probably discount Arsenal from that list as well. Liverpool and Spurs are good but not so far ahead of us that it's impossible to even dream we might finish ahead of them. Unlikely? yes. Impossible? Not while we're sitting in 4th and they are looking up at us.

Liverpool and Spurs are both significantly ahead of us in both quality and depth to the extent that nobody can seriously expect that we'd consistently get a result against both of them, which would be what is requierd for us to pip fourth.

Maybe Arsenal will implode and we'll somehow get to sixth. Anything beyond that exceeds my capacity for dreaming even.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 11:07:03 PM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 11:24:52 PM
Even on our best day with our best players we're nowhere near as good as any of the teams with a chance at fourth so I find it difficult to even dream about finishing in that place.

Sixth or seventh would be fantastic.

The top 3 teams are untouchable and those are Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham will be fighting it out for 4th spot and you can now probably discount Arsenal from that list as well. Liverpool and Spurs are good but not so far ahead of us that it's impossible to even dream we might finish ahead of them. Unlikely? yes. Impossible? Not while we're sitting in 4th and they are looking up at us.

Liverpool and Spurs are both significantly ahead of us in both quality and depth to the extent that nobody can seriously expect that we'd consistently get a result against both of them, which would be what is requierd for us to pip fourth.

Maybe Arsenal will implode and we'll somehow get to sixth. Anything beyond that exceeds my capacity for dreaming even.

True enough.

The thing is... if we held onto Enrique and spent the Carroll money well. We could realistically be competing with the also rans. As things are--- with our thin squad--- we're competing with the other mid-tablers (Villa, Everton, etal)  at best.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Tuesday 4 October 2011, 11:49:21 PM
I think Stoke will struggle to realistically finish 7th.

Villa will be there or thereabouts, and we will be as well.

But we're only 7 games in. A lot can happen - for example, maybe Fulham have turned the corner?

There's no reason you shouldn't be looking at 7th, but I guess the question is - as cliche as this sounds - how do you respond when the going gets tough, you lose a couple and/or pick up a few injuries?

For me, there seems to be signs that suggests the extra games due to the Europa League could very well knack Stoke in the long run.

Aye. We found it out to our cost as well - playing on the Sunday after Thursday is a tough ask. Unless you have the quality and depth of a top team, it's invariably going to catch up with you.

It was never a problem for us when we were in the UEFA cup though. It is however definately effecting Stoke in a negative way however main Stoke's issues are their inability to score (4 goals in 7 games so far) and their lack of any away form, they are so reliant on being able to pick up points at home it's unreal, if they ever lost their home form for whatever reason they would be relegation candidates. They are a mid table team at best, remember they've not finished top ten ever in the the PL don't think it'll start this season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr. Snrub on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:06:08 AM
Excluding the top 6 we have the best starting 11 in the league.  It's not even up for debate.

Villa are doing ok, Stoke will kick their way to a few points and Everton might claw their way back in but other than that the rest of the league is dross.

7th is and rightly should be a realistic target imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: afar on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:11:00 AM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.

What is this delusion that we had, I just don't recall it. Was it when we were challenging for the title that we perhaps expected to push on for the title instead of finishing 2nd two years in a row ? Or when we were qualifying for the champions league, we expected to stay there ? Or that the fans of one of England's best supported clubs expected a team that matched that support, not one that struggled to stay in the prem then dropped out, while the likes of Wigan, Fulham, Hull and Stoke City maintained a higher status in the game ?

Pre KK days there was zero reason for any fan to have any expectations at all about this club, I was there for that and we put up with a whole lot of s*** trust me.

This delusion you speak of is all in yours and every other small brained closed mind, uneducated rival fans head.

Are people right now getting a little carried away with some early season form, you bet your bottom dollar they are, but it's purely because we are right at this moment in time are back in a position we would regularly occupy only a few years ago and they are hopeful it's not just a temporary thing (it is I'm afraid). 99.9% of the fans know we'll not finish top 4 even top 6 but really there's nothing outside those top 6 clubs in this division that even the likes of you lot should be worried about. 7th right now is very much on for us. For me there is more delusion from your lot about how much better your players are than ours despite the league table, now if you wanna talk delusion there's your story mate.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:17:30 AM
Poor Wearside's getting ripped to shreds tonight, like. And in two threads. :lol:

Nah,just loving that the delusion is well and truly back amongst Newcastle supporters.

Great viewing this thread, think I might introduce RTG to it.

What is this delusion that we had, I just don't recall it. Was it when we were challenging for the title that we perhaps expected to push on for the title instead of finishing 2nd two years in a row ? Or when we were qualifying for the champions league, we expected to stay there ? Or that the fans of one of England's best supported clubs expected a team that matched that support, not one that struggled to stay in the prem then dropped out, while the likes of Wigan, Fulham, Hull and Stoke City maintained a higher status in the game ?

Pre KK days there was zero reason for any fan to have any expectations at all about this club, I was there for that and we put up with a whole lot of s*** trust me.

This delusion you speak of is all in yours and every other small brained closed mind, uneducated rival fans head.

Are people right now getting a little carried away with some early season form, you bet your bottom dollar they are, but it's purely because we are right at this moment in time are back in a position we would regularly occupy only a few years ago and they are hopeful it's not just a temporary thing (it is I'm afraid). 99.9% of the fans know we'll not finish top 4 even top 6 but really there's nothing outside those top 6 clubs in this division that even the likes of you lot should be worried about. 7th right now is very much on for us. For me there is more delusion from your lot about how much better your players are than ours despite the league table, now if you wanna talk delusion there's your story mate.

Spot on, a mackem trying to tar anyone else as delusional is a pretty amazing spectacle mind.

That said, it's only the magedia stopping the fantastic collection of players they signed this summer from fulfilling their true potential. It's not as if it was clear to everyone that you could sign 10 or 100 average players and you would still be average. Although, aiming for average must be a positive right now for them.

Please don't wire my jaw wireside.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:36:49 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Wearside is a decent poster?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:39:13 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Wearside is a decent poster?

:yao:

Yes
Title: Re: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:39:38 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Wearside is a decent poster?

Yes.

Though tbf, he was a decent poster at first....
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Interpolic on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:40:55 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Wearside is a decent poster?

:yao:

Yes

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:58:28 AM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?

Er, I was referring to the bollocks about finishing 4th. I would agree 7th looks like a reasonable target, but it's nothing more than that. We're at risk of getting way too carried away with ourselves.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:03:05 AM
He's not bad. None of the regular non-NUFC posters are out-and-out trolls.  Could be a lot worse.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:12:32 AM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?

Er, I was referring to the bollocks about finishing 4th. I would agree 7th looks like a reasonable target, but it's nothing more than that. We're at risk of getting way too carried away with ourselves.

Disagree. Don't think there are many getting carried away atm, unless you count contemplating with a bit of luck possibly challenging for 4th as getting 'carried away'. It's when people start with "Aye, we'll get 4th no problem!" is when we worry.

We've had a good start to the season. People are happy. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:21:50 AM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?

Er, I was referring to the bollocks about finishing 4th. I would agree 7th looks like a reasonable target, but it's nothing more than that. We're at risk of getting way too carried away with ourselves.

Well yes, great start but that's all it is. Birmingham managed a 12 game unbeaten run the season before last so not going to go overboard, 40 points first, then we'll see where we can end up; Fingers crossed top 10, hopefully even higher.

Lovely to have the feeling that maybe, just maybe, we can keep on going and springing the surprises though. :snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Interpolic on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:23:34 AM
We've got 32.6% of last season's points total in 18.4% of the games, it's easy to get carried away.  I'm starting to look at winnable games like Wigan at home like they're actually winnable and this will not end well. :lol:

But yeah, I still think 7th is our maximum possible achievement in the league this year barring massive f***-ups from stronger sides.  7th would be a very big achievement but - apologies for being a broken record about this - I'd be happy to make sacrifices to make a big go of it in the cups because I think with a side like ours we could really make our mark in one of the cups this season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:32:51 AM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?

Er, I was referring to the bollocks about finishing 4th. I would agree 7th looks like a reasonable target, but it's nothing more than that. We're at risk of getting way too carried away with ourselves.

Well yes, great start but that's all it is. Birmingham managed a 12 game unbeaten run the season before last so not going to go overboard, 40 points first, then we'll see where we can end up; Fingers crossed top 10, hopefully even higher.

Lovely to have the feeling that maybe, just maybe, we can keep on going and springing the surprises though. :snod:


:thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: alpal78 on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 03:09:51 AM
I'm with Dave, we'll have to wait a bit more particularly after those crazy sequence of games against the big guns before making a reasonably accurate forecast. Of course we should be happy with the start but as of now, I'll be happy with a top 10 place which hopefully we will build on. If we do spend a bit in January (which I doubt), then we could maybe push a bit higher. The problem with our squad is just that, the squad is too thin. Of course all teams maybe barring Man City have inferior squad players but for us although we have some top players in the first team, the drop in class for their replacement is so big, I would be laughing if it was not painful. Coloccini - Williamson,  Tiote & Cabaye - Guthrie, Gosling and Smith, Ba & Best - Ameobi & Lovenkrads. Our season will really depend on whether these players get injured. Of course there is also the African Cup which means Tiote will miss some crucial games....mind you when he comes back he might not be in top form either due to the fatigue after an intense tournament, so it's all up in the air at the moment.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 09:28:47 AM
People are still talking about this? :lol: RTG posters would rightly be getting absolutely slaughtered if the very notion was put forward on there.

We've made a good start, let's see where it takes us. Comfortably top half would be a very good season as things stand.

I think it's far worse people still doubting whether we're capable of finishing 7th. We've lost 1 game in 15, have a core of players in Krul, S.Taylor, Coloccini, Tiote, Cabaye, Jonas, Ben Arfa & Ba that anyone outside of the top six would love, and that's before you include the likes of Santon & Marveaux.

Whether we can hold it together over 38 games is questionable but to laugh at people talking about 7th place when it's more than a realistic target is a bit strange imo.

Last season we were average and averaged 1.2 points a game, if we do the exact same over the remaining 31 games we'll finish just 2 points off what Everton did last year, not too unrealistic is it?

Er, I was referring to the bollocks about finishing 4th. I would agree 7th looks like a reasonable target, but it's nothing more than that. We're at risk of getting way too carried away with ourselves.

I think most people have only talked about dreaming of a 4th place, I doubt anyone would actually go out and put money on it. Unless you got cracking odds of course.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 09:35:11 AM
50/1 at Ladbrokes.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 11:51:05 AM
I like to think I'm a positive guy, but there's more chance of hell freezing over than us finishing 4th. As it's already been said the top six is more or less a closed shop, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal possess far stronger and deeper squads than the remaider of the league. Behind them you have Everton and Villa, the latter of which have been significantly weakened by the sales of Young and Downing. If we can compete with these usual suspects and have a bash at seventh I'll be a happy man.

Last season we were caught in the mid-table melee. It came to the last day of the season and we could have finished anywhere between 9th and 13th. The way sides are beating each other in the bottom half it looks though a similar scenario could unfold this season. If we can avoid the scramble and finish convincingly in the top half it will represent progress. If we aim for 7th and just fall short we should achieve that, hence targeting seventh should be our goal for the season.

This was the major gripe with our summer spending. We without doubt made some excellent signings, Cabaye and Ba in particular but the squad is still desperately short of quality in defence and up top. If we'd actually bothered to invest some of the Carroll money we might of had the strength and depth to have an ouside shot at 5th or 6th. As it stands when injuries and suspensions kick in we have little quality to replace the absentees.

I'm throughly enjoying our start to the season and long may the run continue. However you can't help but feel some are getting a bit carried away just as others did with the negativity during the post summer fallout. We have a very good first team capable of a very good top half finish, nevertheless the lack of quality throughout the squad puts the top six beyond us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:06:35 PM
fair comment prophet.

I didnt see the3rd place under Keegan, or 4th under Robson coming.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: brummie on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:11:07 PM
Isn't it a bit depressing, really, that clubs like us, you, Everton et al are reduced to scrabbling around treating 4th as the new 1st, and really seeing 6th or 7th as good as we can possibly get?

What a hideous, uncompetitive mess football is in this country
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cp40 on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:13:05 PM
Isn't it a bit depressing, really, that clubs like us, you, Everton et al are reduced to scrabbling around treating 4th as the new 1st, and really seeing 6th or 7th as good as we can possibly get?

What a hideous, uncompetitive mess football is in this country


adds to my point made earlier about the premier league killing the product they are selling.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:42:58 PM
I like to think I'm a positive guy, but there's more chance of hell freezing over than us finishing 4th. As it's already been said the top six is more or less a closed shop, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal possess far stronger and deeper squads than the remaider of the league. Behind them you have Everton and Villa, the latter of which have been significantly weakened by the sales of Young and Downing. If we can compete with these usual suspects and have a bash at seventh I'll be a happy man.

Last season we were caught in the mid-table melee. It came to the last day of the season and we could have finished anywhere between 9th and 13th. The way sides are beating each other in the bottom half it looks though a similar scenario could unfold this season. If we can avoid the scramble and finish convincingly in the top half it will represent progress. If we aim for 7th and just fall short we should achieve that, hence targeting seventh should be our goal for the season.

This was the major gripe with our summer spending. We without doubt made some excellent signings, Cabaye and Ba in particular but the squad is still desperately short of quality in defence and up top. If we'd actually bothered to invest some of the Carroll money we might of had the strength and depth to have an ouside shot at 5th or 6th. As it stands when injuries and suspensions kick in we have little quality to replace the absentees.

I'm throughly enjoying our start to the season and long may the run continue. However you can't help but feel some are getting a bit carried away just as others did with the negativity during the post summer fallout. We have a very good first team capable of a very good top half finish, nevertheless the lack of quality throughout the squad puts the top six beyond us.

Good post.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: brummie on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:57:03 PM
If you were Mike Ashley - and this is something we're seeing with Lerner now, too - and you were faced with the choice of investing, say, 30m, and having a run at 6th, or keeping the money and settling for 8th-10th, what would you do?

In the past, I've always said I'd have a run at improving, but now I am not too sure. I think there are a lot of very wealthy people in football ownership - and I mean people like Ashley, Lerner, Short et al - who have seen what Man City have done, the sheer gobsmacking unbelievableness of the sums involved, and realised that the ante has been upped quite considerably.

I can see why they settle for mid table, to be honest, if the alternative is to pour gigantic sums of money into something which will only marginally improve their club.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: James on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 12:57:32 PM
6 of our 7 games are current bottom 10 apparently.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:00:44 PM
6 of our 7 games are current bottom 10 apparently.

That's what happens when you lose to the Super Toon Army. That's all us, baby.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:08:21 PM
Was about to say, they'd not be bottom half if they could beat us.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:08:38 PM
... If we can avoid the scramble and finish convincingly in the top half it will represent progress. If we aim for 7th and just fall short we should achieve that, hence targeting seventh should be our goal for the season ...

Progress? It would represent a f***ing miracle the way many on here and in the press were going on a month or two ago. O0

Oh, and I think Pardew has stated in the past that the way they work is through achievable short term goals, something I tend to agree with.
I can understand the money men asking for a top half minimum as an aim, but how exactly does a club go about targeting 7th?

You can hope for clean sheets in the next 3, get 10 points from the next 4, but ultimately doesn't it just come down to going into every game looking to do as well as you can, then just seeing where we end up?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: clintdempsey on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:16:52 PM
Was about to say, they'd not be bottom half if they could beat us.  :lol:

Blackburn would, but they'd be the only ones I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:21:34 PM
With Arsenal supposedly in turmoil and Spurs and Liverpool having jekyl/hyde performances, this represents the best chance in years for us, Villa, Everton etc. to break the top six/seven IMO.

We might not get a better chance.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:26:21 PM
Anything in the top 10 will be a decent season.  Need to take baby steps in terms of expectations. One season at a time. Top 10 and a decent cup run would be a good return this year. Then hopefully keep the squad together and keep adding to it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:49:01 PM
I think you can tell how seriously Pardew etc are taking having a great season in the way they seem to have turned the reserves into a meaningful thing again.

Carvers quotes from the Chronny are interesting.

Quote
“We are satisfied because we did it right.

“The senior lads worked hard and passed it well.

“We put bodies in the box and got the ball forward a lot. We have to be happy.

“I have played in games like this and coached a lot of them as well and if you have senior players in there and you do not do things right you can finish up on the end of a hiding,


“In fairness we treated the game like a first-team match.

“We had all of the senior staff here due to the fact we had so many seniors playing.


“It was a similar team to the one which beat Forest in the Carling Cup.

“We thought it was important to do it right and treat it like a first-team game.”


All good stuff imo. Seems like the club is purring along in perfect harmony. Takes a bit of getting used to.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 01:54:27 PM
If you were Mike Ashley - and this is something we're seeing with Lerner now, too - and you were faced with the choice of investing, say, 30m, and having a run at 6th, or keeping the money and settling for 8th-10th, what would you do?

In the past, I've always said I'd have a run at improving, but now I am not too sure. I think there are a lot of very wealthy people in football ownership - and I mean people like Ashley, Lerner, Short et al - who have seen what Man City have done, the sheer gobsmacking unbelievableness of the sums involved, and realised that the ante has been upped quite considerably.

I can see why they settle for mid table, to be honest, if the alternative is to pour gigantic sums of money into something which will only marginally improve their club.

Very good, and at the same time depressing, point. We can progress gradually and over the long term if we continue to make great signings at bargain prices (which is very hard) but nobody can break the top 3 or 4 now without insane levels of investment.

Spurs have done well, but is it sustainable? Not if someone buys Modric and Bale off them for £30m each. Fair play for holding onto them so far mind.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Isn't it a bit depressing, really, that clubs like us, you, Everton et al are reduced to scrabbling around treating 4th as the new 1st, and really seeing 6th or 7th as good as we can possibly get?

What a hideous, uncompetitive mess football is in this country

It's depressing isn't it? The clubs at the top hold all the cards. They rake in the most cash, maintain the bigger squads and corner the market in quality. The chasing pack don't stand a chance. They don't have the cash to bring in the ability required to close the gap and when they do unearth a gem they're swiftly hoovered up by one of the aforementioned sides. A lot of it has to do with player power, as soon as their heads are turned by the bright lights, bigger pay cheques and the European football on offer they bugger off.

Man City and Chelsea are generally hated for throwing money around but as things currently stand it's the only way to get to the top and stay there. Just look at Arsenal, they've failed to match the huge sums of money spent by the top three and they are paying the price. It's a crappy choice between selling your soul or taking the honest approach and settling for mid-table mediocrity.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: buzza on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 02:15:04 PM
But once you reach those champs league spots, people take notice of your players i.e. the bales, modrics  and by selling them on a t ridiculous fees you can then perhaps up the ante slightly when buying young talents i.e. buying much more finished young talents.
What it takes is us holding on to the better players until we have a like for like (but cheaper) alternative at the ready to replace them.
The comments previous about investing 30-40m to get two places more in the league just doesn't make sense... I would certainly just hang around waiting for the long term results hopefully to pay off. if Arsenal can do it repeatedly (until now!) then why shouldn't we?
I like our own model tbh, just would like better organization and planning for our buys (striker left back this summer), ie. get rid of Llambias maybe?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 02:15:32 PM
If you were Mike Ashley - and this is something we're seeing with Lerner now, too - and you were faced with the choice of investing, say, 30m, and having a run at 6th, or keeping the money and settling for 8th-10th, what would you do?

In the past, I've always said I'd have a run at improving, but now I am not too sure. I think there are a lot of very wealthy people in football ownership - and I mean people like Ashley, Lerner, Short et al - who have seen what Man City have done, the sheer gobsmacking unbelievableness of the sums involved, and realised that the ante has been upped quite considerably.

I can see why they settle for mid table, to be honest, if the alternative is to pour gigantic sums of money into something which will only marginally improve their club.

Very good, and at the same time depressing, point. We can progress gradually and over the long term if we continue to make great signings at bargain prices (which is very hard) but nobody can break the top 3 or 4 now without insane levels of investment.

Spurs have done well, but is it sustainable? Not if someone buys Modric and Bale off them for £3om each. Fair play for holding onto them so far mind.

Haven't Spurs funded most of their spending by selling players for big money though? Their wage structure still remains on the modest side I believe. brummie is right, only Man U, Chelsea and Man City can afford to chuck insane amounts of money which virtually guarantees a CL spot. Everyone else is gambling on one spot so to throw huge money at it is a massive risk unless you have an owner with limitless funds.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Wednesday 5 October 2011, 02:58:45 PM
I like to think I'm a positive guy, but there's more chance of hell freezing over than us finishing 4th. As it's already been said the top six is more or less a closed shop, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal possess far stronger and deeper squads than the remaider of the league. Behind them you have Everton and Villa, the latter of which have been significantly weakened by the sales of Young and Downing. If we can compete with these usual suspects and have a bash at seventh I'll be a happy man.

Last season we were caught in the mid-table melee. It came to the last day of the season and we could have finished anywhere between 9th and 13th. The way sides are beating each other in the bottom half it looks though a similar scenario could unfold this season. If we can avoid the scramble and finish convincingly in the top half it will represent progress. If we aim for 7th and just fall short we should achieve that, hence targeting seventh should be our goal for the season.

This was the major gripe with our summer spending. We without doubt made some excellent signings, Cabaye and Ba in particular but the squad is still desperately short of quality in defence and up top. If we'd actually bothered to invest some of the Carroll money we might of had the strength and depth to have an ouside shot at 5th or 6th. As it stands when injuries and suspensions kick in we have little quality to replace the absentees.

I'm throughly enjoying our start to the season and long may the run continue. However you can't help but feel some are getting a bit carried away just as others did with the negativity during the post summer fallout. We have a very good first team capable of a very good top half finish, nevertheless the lack of quality throughout the squad puts the top six beyond us.

:thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Lenny on Thursday 6 October 2011, 03:29:00 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 6 October 2011, 03:42:13 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:
Also since the premier League started any team 4th after seven games has always finished in the top half of the table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Thursday 6 October 2011, 03:45:52 PM
Well. It's not like the Toon to ever do things properly.We're going to re-write the history books this season. Just maybe not in a positive way. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Lenny on Thursday 6 October 2011, 03:46:49 PM
Nailed on relegation now :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Thursday 6 October 2011, 03:58:10 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:

Spurs could be 4th if they won their game in hand. So technically we're not there, yet.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Thursday 6 October 2011, 04:35:28 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:

:frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Thursday 6 October 2011, 04:53:52 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:

Spurs could be 4th after having played 7 games after beating us....
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Lenny on Thursday 6 October 2011, 04:54:34 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:

Spurs could be 4th if they won their game in hand. So technically we're not there, yet.

God damn technicalities! They'd have to win 4-0 to go above us on goals scored, and their game in hand is Everton, so I can't see it :razz:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Thursday 6 October 2011, 04:55:43 PM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:

Spurs could be 4th if they won their game in hand. So technically we're not there, yet.

God damn technicalities! They'd have to win 4-0 to go above us on goals scored, and their game in hand is Everton, so I can't see it :razz:

Just wanted to point it out. In the end, it's good to know that it's between us and them now for finishing 4th anyway. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Lenny on Thursday 6 October 2011, 04:58:02 PM
Exactly, it's all about stats! :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Thursday 6 October 2011, 06:54:24 PM
I don't want to get too carried away, but I reckon we might just never lose another game again.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:09:28 PM
I don't want to get too carried away, but I reckon we might just never lose another game again.

lol DELUDED
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:17:47 PM
Don't think it's absurd to suggest we have a chance of finishing sixth. No need to mock those with optimism.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:31:45 PM
Can we have this thread title changed to "The Battle for 4th" please?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:40:33 PM
Can we have this thread title changed to "The Battle for 4th" please?

"The Battle for the Title (5/20)" tbh
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:43:09 PM
Can we have this thread title changed to "The Battle for 4th" please?

"The Battle for the Title (5/20)" tbh

4th is the new 5th now that Liverpool and Arsenal are s***.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Parky on Thursday 6 October 2011, 07:43:10 PM
Once the lack of squad cover and inj kick in around xmas, think staying in the top 10 will be a good effort.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Thursday 6 October 2011, 09:07:37 PM
We've got 3 first team players missing at the moment.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 6 October 2011, 09:16:09 PM
We might hit lucky with injuries you never know. When we look back to 01-02, the only injuries we had that season really were Dyer up until about December, and Bellamy for the last 10 games or so. (okay Carl Cort as well)

Hit lucky like that and you never know.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Parky on Thursday 6 October 2011, 09:24:07 PM
African nations in Jan.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ToonTastic on Friday 7 October 2011, 11:26:49 AM
Apparently in the past 4 seasons, the team in 4th place after their 7th game of the season went on to finish the season in.... 4th!

Guessing that trend gets bucked this year :lol:
Also since the premier League started any team 4th after seven games has always finished in the top half of the table.

Full list here http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12038_7225664,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12038_7225664,00.html)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Revolution Number 9 on Friday 7 October 2011, 11:29:46 AM
Easy man, we're going to win literally every game from here until the end of time.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Christmas Tree on Friday 7 October 2011, 02:49:48 PM
Even KK says we can finish 6th  :frantic:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/07/keegan-newcastle-united-can-end-in-top-six-72703-29554278/ (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/07/keegan-newcastle-united-can-end-in-top-six-72703-29554278/)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Friday 7 October 2011, 02:53:05 PM
It's f***ing ON.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Friday 7 October 2011, 02:54:08 PM
It's f***ing ON.

:frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:09:48 PM
:lol:

I'll wait till after Spurs tbh. One of our biggest league games in recent history imo. It can define our season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:15:59 PM
If we can finish in a Europa position we'll have had a great season.  4th is possible, but only if we can get Marveaux and Ben Arfa to fit into the side and keep all our key players fit.  Its too much to ask, but we can dream I suppose.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:49:27 PM
tbh im tempted to never look at this thread until a seperate "race for 4th" table is added and updated until its statistically impossible...basically beat all teams home and away apart from the top 4, where you have to take 4 points over a season :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Troll on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:54:09 PM
I love how everyone's waiting for us to lose and go on a poor run.  With Ben Arfa, Santon and Marveaux still to get into the side and Ba just hitting form, we're only going to improve.

Unless a centre back gets injured.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:56:43 PM
I love how everyone's waiting for us to lose and go on a poor run.  With Ben Arfa, Santon and Marveaux still to get into the side and Ba just hitting form, we're only going to improve.

Unless a centre back gets injured.

(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nejournal/feb2010/7/3/mike-williamson-405777878.jpg)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:58:05 PM
I think we'll get better too, just we'll play better teams than the ones we've played so far soon
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Friday 7 October 2011, 03:58:53 PM
I love how everyone's waiting for us to lose and go on a poor run.  With Ben Arfa, Santon and Marveaux still to get into the side and Ba just hitting form, we're only going to improve.

Unless a centre back gets injured.

(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nejournal/feb2010/7/3/mike-williamson-405777878.jpg)

O haiii

(http://www.nufc.co.uk/javaImages/8d/a2/0,,10278~9020045,00.jpg)

:troll:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: RupertCommunicator on Friday 7 October 2011, 06:35:08 PM
Thread is dead.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Friday 7 October 2011, 07:28:47 PM
I love how everyone's waiting for us to lose and go on a poor run.  With Ben Arfa, Santon and Marveaux still to get into the side and Ba just hitting form, we're only going to improve.

Unless a centre back gets injured.
It will be interesting to see how we cope with defeat and/or a poor run though.  So far we've not been tested - said in a lot of threads November will be trying and we'll learn a lot about the true character of this team in the results afterwards.  Based on what we learn from that we can start talking about finishing spots imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Saturday 8 October 2011, 07:13:48 PM
Have we had a rolling table posted in this thread yet?  Here's one anyway...

Pos Pos v LstYr Team P W D L F A GD GD v LstYr PTS PTS v LstYr
1 -0 Man Utd 38 23 11 4 87 35 52 +11 80 +0
2 +1 Man City 38 22 8 8 72 34 38 +11 74 +3
3 -1 Chelsea 38 21 8 9 63 35 28 -8 71 +0
4 +1 Tottenham 38 19 10 9 58 47 11 +2 67 +5
5 +1 Liverpool 38 20 6 12 63 41 22 +7 66 +8
6 -2 Arsenal 38 18 9 11 67 48 19 -10 63 -5
7 +5 Newcastle 38 14 12 12 56 52 4 +5 54 +8
8 -1 Everton 38 13 13 12 50 48 2 -4 52 -2
9 -1 Fulham 38 11 16 11 51 39 12 +6 49 +0
10 -1 Aston Villa 38 12 13 13 47 57 -10 +1 49 +1
11 +3 Bolton 38 13 8 17 54 59 -5 -1 47 +1
12 +1 Stoke City 38 13 8 17 43 50 -7 -5 47 +1
13 -2 WBA 38 11 12 15 52 63 -11 +4 45 -2
14 -4 Sunderland 38 10 12 16 40 53 -13 -2 42 -5
15 +1 Wigan 38 9 14 15 41 60 -19 +2 41 -1
16 +2 QPR 38 9 14 15 36 62 -26 -5 41 +2
17 +2 Norwich 38 10 9 19 51 75 -24 -1 39 +0
18 -3 Blackburn 38 9 11 18 44 65 -21 -8 37 -6
19 -2 Wolves 38 10 5 23 44 68 -24 -4 35 -5
20 +0 Swansea 38 7 13 18 40 67 -27 +0 34 +1

I love that we've taken 8 more points this season :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Saturday 8 October 2011, 07:18:22 PM
No doubt about it, Pardew rescued Hughton's sinking ship.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 8 October 2011, 07:55:35 PM
No doubt about it, Pardew rescued Hughton's sinking ship.

Agreed.

(cf. http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,79195.msg3251553.html#msg3251553 (http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,79195.msg3251553.html#msg3251553))
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Unbelievable! on Saturday 8 October 2011, 09:25:42 PM
No doubt about it, Pardew rescued Hughton's sinking ship.

 :fool:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jukeboxromeo on Saturday 8 October 2011, 09:26:31 PM
We've somehow improved by that table's reckoning, how strange.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr Logic on Saturday 8 October 2011, 11:56:54 PM
Have we had a rolling table posted in this thread yet?  Here's one anyway...

Pos Pos v LstYr Team P W D L F A GD GD v LstYr PTS PTS v LstYr
1 -0 Man Utd 38 23 11 4 87 35 52 +11 80 +0
2 +1 Man City 38 22 8 8 72 34 38 +11 74 +3
3 -1 Chelsea 38 21 8 9 63 35 28 -8 71 +0
4 +1 Tottenham 38 19 10 9 58 47 11 +2 67 +5
5 +1 Liverpool 38 20 6 12 63 41 22 +7 66 +8
6 -2 Arsenal 38 18 9 11 67 48 19 -10 63 -5
7 +5 Newcastle 38 14 12 12 56 52 4 +5 54 +8
8 -1 Everton 38 13 13 12 50 48 2 -4 52 -2
9 -1 Fulham 38 11 16 11 51 39 12 +6 49 +0
10 -1 Aston Villa 38 12 13 13 47 57 -10 +1 49 +1
11 +3 Bolton 38 13 8 17 54 59 -5 -1 47 +1
12 +1 Stoke City 38 13 8 17 43 50 -7 -5 47 +1
13 -2 WBA 38 11 12 15 52 63 -11 +4 45 -2
14 -4 Sunderland 38 10 12 16 40 53 -13 -2 42 -5
15 +1 Wigan 38 9 14 15 41 60 -19 +2 41 -1
16 +2 QPR 38 9 14 15 36 62 -26 -5 41 +2
17 +2 Norwich 38 10 9 19 51 75 -24 -1 39 +0
18 -3 Blackburn 38 9 11 18 44 65 -21 -8 37 -6
19 -2 Wolves 38 10 5 23 44 68 -24 -4 35 -5
20 +0 Swansea 38 7 13 18 40 67 -27 +0 34 +1

I love that we've taken 8 more points this season :smug:

Format! My eyes are bleeding.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Sunday 9 October 2011, 12:46:06 AM
cba to format that mess.  Posted as I found it :( 

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Sunday 9 October 2011, 12:47:26 AM
We've somehow improved by that table's reckoning, how strange.

3 points gained against QPR, 2 points dropped by not drawing Man'U and the other promoted team.  Other results are the same.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Sunday 9 October 2011, 01:04:19 AM
cba to format that mess.  Posted as I found it :( 

 
   Pos
   Pos v LstYr
   Team
   P
   W
   D
   L
   F
   A
   GD
   GD v LstYr
   PTS
   PTS v LstYr
1
-0
Man Utd
38
23
11
4
87
35
52
+11
80
+0
2
+1
Man City
38
22
8
8
72
34
38
+11
74
+3
3
-1
Chelsea
38
21
8
9
63
35
28
-8
71
+0
4
+1
Tottenham
38
19
10
9
58
47
11
+2
67
+5
5
+1
Liverpool
38
20
6
12
63
41
22
+7
66
+8
6
-2
Arsenal
38
18
9
11
67
48
19
-10
63
-5
7
+5
Newcastle
38
14
12
12
56
52
4
+5
54
+8
8
-1
Everton
38
13
13
12
50
48
2
-4
52
-2
9
-1
Fulham
38
11
16
11
51
39
12
+6
49
+0
10
-1
Aston Villa
38
12
13
13
47
57
-10
+1
49
+1
11
+3
Bolton
38
13
8
17
54
59
-5
-1
47
+1
12
+1
Stoke City
38
13
8
17
43
50
-7
-5
47
+1
13
-2
WBA
38
11
12
15
52
63
-11
+4
45
-2
14
-4
Sunderland
38
10
12
16
40
53
-13
-2
42
-5
15
+1
Wigan
38
9
14
15
41
60
-19
+2
41
-1
16
+2
QPR
38
9
14
15
36
62
-26
-5
41
+2
17
+2
Norwich
38
10
9
19
51
75
-24
-1
39
+0
18
-3
Blackburn
38
9
11
18
44
65
-21
-8
37
-6
19
-2
Wolves
38
10
5
23
44
68
-24
-4
35
-5
20
+0
Swansea
38
7
13
18
40
67
-27
+0
34
+1
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr Logic on Sunday 9 October 2011, 01:06:49 AM
My hero....  :love:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr Logic on Sunday 9 October 2011, 01:14:10 AM
In all seriousness the thing that gives me more hope than any other at this point is the amount of goals we've conceded.

Ok, it could all go pear-shaped quickly with a 5-0 reverse or an injury to one of our current CB's but it is quite a platform to stand on. A tight defence is quite the building block. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Sunday 9 October 2011, 09:00:41 AM
thomas (http://www.otf2.com/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: teohgk on Sunday 9 October 2011, 11:14:06 AM
No doubt about it, Pardew rescued Hughton's sinking ship.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 9 October 2011, 11:21:47 AM
I think "sinking ship" is a bit harsh, but we've certainly improved under Pardew particularly at home.

If you look at our home record under Hughton (defeats to Blackpool, Stoke & Blackburn in particular), I'd say Everton at home is the only home defeat we could be a bit disappointed about.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 16 October 2011, 07:05:43 PM
"Rolling League Table"

Surprising ones seem to be Arsenal still 4th based on their equivalent results last season, and Bolton actually 3 points better off despite only having 6 in total.

We only got 2 points in the same matches in our next 6 games so this could look even better shortly.  :frantic:
(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+50..........81 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+34...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+29..........73 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+21..........66  (4th, 68)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+20.........64  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+4...........54  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...0...........51  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-2............50  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-3...........49  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-9..........48  (9th, 48)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-7............47  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........44  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............42  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........41  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............40  (18th, 39)
Wigan Wanderers................38..........-23...........40  (16th, 42)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........39  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........35  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-26............32  (20th, 33)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:01:15 PM
Gameweek 8:
Bolton (+2)
Newcastle, Sunderland, West Brom, Villa, Stoke, Everton (0)
Fulham (-1)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:08:25 PM
If you look at Bolton's position in this table then look at their position in the real table, you'll probably think this whole endeavor is pointless seeing as the team that's ranked 18th is actually the third best out of eight teams challenging for 7th, but look at their schedule and you'll laugh; it's been an absolutely killer start to the season for them in terms of fixtures and it lightens up considerably. I mean, home against City, Chelsea and Man Utd out of 4 home matches and away against Liverpool and Arsenal out of 4 away matches. Nightmare schedule. I think they're a good team and they'll climb out of their hole quickly now that they've got their hard fixtures out of the way.

On the other hand, I look at a team like Fulham and I think they're in big trouble given how easy their fixtures have been and how they've drawn so many winnable matches.

It's still early but you can probably make a few educated guesses on how the season will turn out by looking at the expected table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thewellander on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:18:58 PM
With Bolton, I suppose it depends on how badly their confidence has been battered by their tough start to the season. It's possible (and probably likely) they'll lift themselves up the table to a respectable position, but it may be harder for them to turn it around than it should be.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ash on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:27:04 PM
With Bolton, I suppose it depends on how badly their confidence has been battered by their tough start to the season. It's possible (and probably likely) they'll lift themselves up the table to a respectable position, but it may be harder for them to turn it around than it should be.

Especially with no Sturridge or Elmander this season either.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: buzza on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:36:35 PM
With Bolton, I suppose it depends on how badly their confidence has been battered by their tough start to the season. It's possible (and probably likely) they'll lift themselves up the table to a respectable position, but it may be harder for them to turn it around than it should be.

Especially with no Sturridge or Elmander this season either.
That's a huge loss for them as they were both outstanding performers last season... Who did they replace them with btw?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr. Snrub on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:37:59 PM
With Bolton, I suppose it depends on how badly their confidence has been battered by their tough start to the season. It's possible (and probably likely) they'll lift themselves up the table to a respectable position, but it may be harder for them to turn it around than it should be.

Especially with no Sturridge or Elmander this season either.
That's a huge loss for them as they were both outstanding performers last season... Who did they replace them with btw?

David N'gog. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: aussiemag on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:39:12 PM
With Bolton, I suppose it depends on how badly their confidence has been battered by their tough start to the season. It's possible (and probably likely) they'll lift themselves up the table to a respectable position, but it may be harder for them to turn it around than it should be.

Especially with no Sturridge or Elmander this season either.
That's a huge loss for them as they were both outstanding performers last season... Who did they replace them with btw?

Tuncay and David N'Gog
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: buzza on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:39:16 PM
ouch!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 04:43:06 PM
Injuries to Holden and Lee haven't helped either.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 06:59:23 PM
I think they'll be in and around 7th spot come May. Play some neat football at times IMO. Fulham always draw like f*** :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jukeboxromeo on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 07:20:17 PM
The thing is, Sturridge wasn't there in the first half of the season and Elmander might as well not have been in the second. If you consider them as one player, then that's 18 goals we need to find from somewhere. Tuncay hasn't played much, but N'Gog actually has impressed so far.

Also, we're not having problems scoring this season (we're 6th top scorers atm), it's just the defence that has been dreadful.

We have had a hard start, yes, but there's really no excuse for losing to Norwich at home.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Gorilla on Wednesday 19 October 2011, 07:28:54 PM
The thing is, Sturridge wasn't there in the first half of the season and Elmander might as well not have been in the second. If you consider them as one player, then that's 18 goals we need to find from somewhere. Tuncay hasn't played much so far, but N'Gog actually has impressed so far.

Also, we're not having problems scoring this season (we're 6th top scorers atm), it's just the defence that has been dreadful.

We have had a hard start, yes, but there's really no excuse for losing to Norwich at home.
Morale is key though, after a few good results the players start thinking more positively and are less nervous.  When you are down at the bottom and losing on a regular basis the players over analyse each decision.  too scared to try risky balls or try to take on a man in fear of a counter attack, players also less likely to commit forward.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 22 October 2011, 07:54:52 PM
Joint leaders for October if my maths isn't too dodgy.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ginola on Saturday 22 October 2011, 07:56:03 PM
Us and WBA both on +2?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 22 October 2011, 07:56:59 PM
:thup:

Stoke can join us with a win.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 22 October 2011, 08:16:19 PM
Nope. 0 for today for us because the three points was expected. West Brom and Sunderland are +2 with Villa and Bolton -3.

edit: If you mean for October then yes, us and WBA are on +2 and Stoke can join us with a win.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: morpeth mag on Saturday 22 October 2011, 08:40:29 PM
Whats the culmulative score after 9 games?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Saturday 22 October 2011, 09:45:28 PM
i wanna see a comparison with last season of how many points we have, so like a list of 38 weeks, and on the left how many points we had after each game, on the right this season's total as it happens (best way i can explain it)

obviously im too lazy but some-one can who is more statty than me
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 22 October 2011, 09:57:29 PM
i wanna see a comparison with last season of how many points we have, so like a list of 38 weeks, and on the left how many points we had after each game, on the right this season's total as it happens (best way i can explain it)

obviously im too lazy but some-one can who is more statty than me

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2857/captureak.png)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:02:11 PM
Next five games will really test our metal.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:05:16 PM
Next five games will really test our metal.

Aye. Are we titanium or are we aluminium?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:08:34 PM
Both. An alloy.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Si on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:11:24 PM
Great table that, so we've got the same points after 9 games as we had after 15 or 16 games last season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:12:04 PM
5 points from 5 games would be a very good return.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:15:38 PM
5 points from 5 games would be a very good return.

Would rather have 15.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 22 October 2011, 10:26:39 PM
"Rolling League Table"

Liverpool actually gained a point since they lost this one against Blackpool last year, meaning Norwich drop two points, we're now 10 points better off with our equivalent fixtures than last season, and in our next 4 fixtures we got 0 points and minus 9 goal difference, so we can't really drop!

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+50..........81 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+34...........74 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+29..........73 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+21..........66  (4th, 68)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........65  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+5...........56  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...0...........51  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-2............50  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-5............50  (11th, 47)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........49  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........45  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........44  (8th, 49)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........41  (10th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-21............40  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............40  (18th, 39)
Wigan ATHLETIC................38..........-24...........39  (16th, 42)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........39  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........35  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-26............32  (20th, 33)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Sunday 23 October 2011, 10:44:27 AM
5 points from 5 games would be a very good return.

Would rather have 15.

Well I'd rather have 25 ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 23 October 2011, 02:39:46 PM
i wanna see a comparison with last season of how many points we have, so like a list of 38 weeks, and on the left how many points we had after each game, on the right this season's total as it happens (best way i can explain it)

obviously im too lazy but some-one can who is more statty than me

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2857/captureak.png)

Nice.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 23 October 2011, 06:17:32 PM
"Rolling League Table"

Everton close the gap by two points.


(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........78 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+40...........77 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+29..........73 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+22..........66  (4th, 68)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........65  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+5...........56  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+2...........53  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-3............50  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-5............50  (11th, 47)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........49  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........45  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...-1...........43  (8th, 49)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........41  (10th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-21............40  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............40  (18th, 39)
Wigan ATHLETIC................38..........-24...........39  (16th, 42)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........39  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........35  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-26............32  (20th, 33)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: loki679 on Sunday 23 October 2011, 06:21:51 PM
I'd be very happy if the table looked that way come the end of the season.  9 point gap between 6th and 7th will take some work to close up though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 23 October 2011, 06:39:31 PM
Gameweek 9:
Everton, West Brom, Sunderland (+2)
Newcastle, Stoke (0)
Villa, Fulham, Bolton (-3)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 23 October 2011, 06:42:21 PM
I'd be very happy if the table looked that way come the end of the season.  9 point gap between 6th and 7th will take some work to close up though.

Liverpool have 12 points to defend in their next 5 games which include wins over Man City at home & Chelsea away, we have 1, so we could see that close a bit. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Monday 24 October 2011, 02:00:16 AM
You know, I didn't give being in fourth spot a whole lot of thought but now that we've been there a while I realize that I'm going to feel pretty crummy when we inevitably hand it over to Spurs at some point.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pata on Monday 24 October 2011, 02:40:06 AM
You know, I didn't give being in fourth spot a whole lot of thought but now that we've been there a while I realize that I'm going to feel pretty crummy when we inevitably hand it over to Spurs at some point.

Yeah, just thought today how s*** I'm going to feel when we drop down from there. Ridiculous  :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Monday 24 October 2011, 02:58:34 AM
I don't mind losing 4th, its going to happen anyway. It's going down to 9th, 10th and possibly the lower half that will be s***. I just hope we don't go as far down as the lower half over the season, and if we do I hope it isnt for long. We have 5 tough games coming up and we should still be in the top 10 at the end of them, even if we lose all 5 I can't see 10 teams in the league having more than 19 points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: buzza on Monday 24 October 2011, 09:31:04 AM
The reality probably is that our real competition for Fifth or sixth place is Liverpool, Arsenal and perhaps Villa (?)...

oiljoijoij

We should take four points, Arsenal 3 pts, Livpl 4 pts and Villa whatever...

We can make a nice cushion for the up and coming tough games against the top guns, from which I am now thoroughly expecting to get a point from either Manu or Chelsea...
Even losing 2-3 games on the trot and we would still be in the top six-seven I think...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Monday 24 October 2011, 11:55:24 AM
Villa doesn't really look like competition. They've been utterly unimpressive and we'll see the fans turning on McLeish soon enough.

Very mediocre season on the cards I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Monday 24 October 2011, 01:08:53 PM
This is a brilliant thread !
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 24 October 2011, 01:25:42 PM
I don't mind losing 4th, its going to happen anyway. It's going down to 9th, 10th and possibly the lower half that will be s***. I just hope we don't go as far down as the lower half over the season, and if we do I hope it isnt for long. We have 5 tough games coming up and we should still be in the top 10 at the end of them, even if we lose all 5 I can't see 10 teams in the league having more than 19 points.

Since the Premier League became 20 clubs, the best points tally for a team who's finished 10th has been 53, the average seems to be 49-50. We could show slightly better than relegation form from now until May and be on for about that total. Would be a massive let down to just manage that now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: GuyP on Monday 24 October 2011, 08:55:45 PM
i wanna see a comparison with last season of how many points we have, so like a list of 38 weeks, and on the left how many points we had after each game, on the right this season's total as it happens (best way i can explain it)

obviously im too lazy but some-one can who is more statty than me

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2857/captureak.png)

thank you, perfect!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 29 October 2011, 05:34:20 PM
"Rolling League Table" (post-Liverpool game)

We move a further point clearer of Everton due to their defeat today against Man Utd, which they drew last season.


(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+41...........77 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........69  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+24.........68  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+10..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+5...........56  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+1...........52  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-3............50  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-8............48  (11th, 47)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............40  (18th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-22............35  (20th, 33)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 29 October 2011, 05:39:25 PM
Our form in the first quarter of the season is going to be so annoying when we do this comparatives s*** next season :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Saturday 29 October 2011, 06:04:40 PM
Our form in the first quarter of the season is going to be so annoying when we do this comparatives s*** next season :laugh:

Not unless we're challenging for the title :lol:
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Saturday 29 October 2011, 06:21:31 PM
Nut,I really wish I understood those tables!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Disco on Saturday 29 October 2011, 06:26:12 PM
Nut,I really wish I understood those tables!

Just stick with the one that matters mush. That's what I do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/table/default.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/table/default.stm)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 29 October 2011, 06:54:40 PM
Nut,I really wish I understood those tables!

It's last season's final table, with this season's results replacing those results. eg, last season we lost 2-1 at home to Blackburn, but beat them 3-1 this season, so our goal difference has improved by 3 goals, and we've got 3 extra points.

Pretty pointless stuff really. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:21:21 PM
Manchester United 1/66
Manchester City 1/100
Chelsea 1/6
Spurs 6/5
Liverpool 6/5
Arsenal 11/8
Newcastle 28/1
Everton 50/1

Odds for finishing top 4. :fwap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:23:08 PM
:lol:

I know it's based mostly on where the money is going, but I still like looking - as though it's an indication of what's going to happen.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/w-o-big-6 (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/w-o-big-6) :indi:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Foluwashola on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:24:11 PM
We're nearly twice as good as Everton. Haha, Neil.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:26:14 PM
question
when the hell did the phrase "big 6" come around and how quickly can it be gotten rid of
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:29:47 PM
question
when the hell did the phrase "big 6" come around and how quickly can it be gotten rid of

When Arsenal and Liverpool started underperforming probably.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:31:45 PM
We're nearly twice as good as Everton. Haha, Neil.

4 Newcastle

16 Everton

4 times as good, actually.

 :okay:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO (not in any particular order within groups btw).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:36:15 PM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO
I'd create a special category just for Wigan called Beyond s***
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:42:46 PM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO
I'd create a special category just for Wigan called Beyond s***

Blackburn?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:43:33 PM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO
I'd create a special category just for Wigan called Beyond s***

Blackburn?
they just have a s**** manager, few decent players in that side
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:44:42 PM
Speaking of which, what happened to those Scottish midfielders at Wigan, they were rated as 's*** hot' not long ago weren't they. Not another Davis, O'Neil etc..?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:45:09 PM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO (not in any particular order within groups btw).

I think Villa will be bottom half.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: kirkwdavis2001 on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:47:13 PM
Your wisdom says 8th though?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:48:46 PM
a. that's from last season
b. they're not my predictions
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: kirkwdavis2001 on Sunday 30 October 2011, 10:52:14 PM
c. okay then sewell lad :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Monday 31 October 2011, 02:08:13 AM
Title challengers
Man City
Man United

Challengers if they get their s*** together
Chelsea

Champions League spot contenders
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool

Slightly better than the rest
Us
Everton
Villa
Stoke

As good/bad as each other
Everyone else

IMO (not in any particular order within groups btw).

I think Villa will be bottom half.

Not if they replace McLeish... and fast.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gggg on Monday 31 October 2011, 02:25:55 AM
Has Lerner got any ambition to replace Mcleish? He's spent a shitload and seen no return and seemingly given up. A downsizing club going nowhere isn't going to attract many better managers.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:43:54 PM
"Rolling League Table"

6th place will be ours if Fulham beat Spurs and we beat Everton.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+41...........77 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........69  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+24.........68  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+11...........59  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+1...........52  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-8............48  (11th, 47)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-20............40  (18th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-22............35  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:44:56 PM
 :megusta:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:54:08 PM
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3151/captureuez.png)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:56:18 PM
f*** 7th!




(I'm joking, it would be class)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Nobody on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:58:15 PM
13 points better compared to the same games last season? That's ridiculous :lol:
Also, we've got almost half of our points total from last season :crazy2:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:58:20 PM
This thread is great, but the facts say it all. We're 9 points clear of 8th, f***ing 9! Our goal difference is plus 9 as well. We could lose all 3 of the Manc and Chelsea games and still be in the top 7 at that stage. Unreal.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:58:28 PM
Same points as we had half way through last year? That's unreal. Pretty sure we were around 5th this time last year after the Arsenal away win but clearly the points tally is much much better.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MW on Monday 31 October 2011, 10:59:21 PM
so we got the same points in almost half the games? niccce
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 31 October 2011, 11:01:06 PM
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3151/captureuez.png)

Looking good.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 09:20:14 AM
Gameweek 10:
Newcastle, Fulham (+2)
Villa (0)
West Brom, Everton, Bolton (-1)
Sunderland (-2)
Stoke (-3)

Season: Up to Gameweek 10
Newcastle (+6)
Stoke (-1)
Everton (-3)
West Brom (-4)
Sunderland, Bolton (-6)
Villa (-7)
Fulham (-8)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 09:31:01 AM
It was a brilliant month for us. +4 is amazing, with the two away wins doing the job for us. We're flying high in this projected table and in the actual table as well. There's not much to say about us, really. Villa continue to drop easy points and now their position in the actual table is starting to reflect the amount of points that they've dropped so far. They also have a lot of difficult fixtures coming up so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up near 15th by the halfway stage of the season. Most of the other teams did ok this month, and of course the fact that most teams dropped behind the target isn't a surprise since it's expected that only one team will come near 58 points.

Looking ahead, November is actually a pretty chilled month for us because we aren't expected to pick up that many points, but the Everton match is actually crucial because a loss will mean a 5 point swing; -3 for us, +2 for them, so hopefully we can win and have a lead of 10 points in the expected table, and 15 points in the real table.

I think it's also pretty noteworthy that we are +6 overall if we're targeting 7th, but we're +2 if we're targeting 4th (70 points - win all your home games, draw away against everyone but the top 6), and interestingly Liverpool are at 0 if they're targeting 4th. ;) It's just something that I don't think many expected before the start of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 11:11:58 AM
:thup: good summary
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 11:55:59 AM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:00:37 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

<------------------------------------------------------------------THIS RIDICULOUS------------------------------------------------------------------>




/We'll not beat Everton. No chance. :huff:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:11:14 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:12:41 PM
Sunderland would happily lose points to stop us from moving up the table :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:14:22 PM
Sunderland would happily lose points to stop us from moving up the table :lol:

Aye :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:16:31 PM
I keep thinking the league table's a mistake.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:22:38 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:

Just had a look at the fixture list - we're actually playing Man City on our last home game in May. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 12:49:05 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:

Just had a look at the fixture list - we're actually playing Man City on our last home game in May. :lol:

Can you imagine if we won the league at home to Man City on the last day of the season?? I mean can you f***ing imagine? :lol: :lol:

[No, me neither :okay:]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 01:20:14 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:

Just had a look at the fixture list - we're actually playing Man City on our last home game in May. :lol:

Can you imagine if we won the league at home to Man City on the last day of the season?? I mean can you f***ing imagine? :lol: :lol:

[No, me neither :okay:]

If it would come down to that game I'd come over for sure - just to say it was because of my great record I have when it comes to watching us at SJP.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 01:22:13 PM
I think you missed a 1 out in your estimation of where we might finish.

So happy to be being proved wrong so far, hope it continues.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 01:22:24 PM
Sky will be gutted they don't have the City match on like, imagine the hype they'd build up for it if we were still both unbeaten going into it, would be unbearable, especially considering they'd have a two week international break to drum up their hype for it. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 01:27:43 PM
Many thanks for the updates to this and the rolling league table.
Thirteen more points of the same games than last season and way ahead of the teams identified as our contenders in the OP.
Howay the Toon!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 01:32:27 PM
Cowboy talk apart, I was probably more concerned about last night's game than the ones against Citeh, Manure or Chelsea............
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 02:39:44 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

:frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 03:22:35 PM
its getting silly this good form, its unnatural
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:01:20 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:

Just had a look at the fixture list - we're actually playing Man City on our last home game in May. :lol:
It's clearly written in the stars. :pow: :fwap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:14:19 PM
Just had a scary thought.

How ridiculous would it be if we beat Everton, Man United dropped points to the Scum, and we went into the City match in 2nd place for a "title decider" with the leaders? :lol:

Is the title decided in November? :undecided:

Just had a look at the fixture list - we're actually playing Man City on our last home game in May. :lol:
It's clearly written in the stars. :pow: :fwap:

:laugh: it looks like it. :frantic:

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:25:30 PM
:lol: :lol: Absolutely no chance man.

As it stands, if we dont get a striker in before the end of August, we'll be in a relegation battle for me like. Simply cant see where our goals are coming from.

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:37:11 PM
Does 7th become Europa League only if all 4 cup finalists are already qualified for Europe?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:40:28 PM
Does 7th become Europa League only if all 4 cup finalists are already qualified for Europe?

I think so.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 04:55:07 PM
I'm sure there's slightly different rules for the two cups. I think only the winners of the league cup get a European spot, and if they've already got one via the league it's passed onto 6th place. But, I think losing finalists qualify for a European spot in the FA cup if the winners already have one.

So 7th is a Europa League spot if both FA Cup finalists and the League Cup winner have already finished in the top 6. I think that's the craic anyway.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 05:04:50 PM
I'm sure there's slightly different rules for the two cups. I think only the winners of the league cup get a European spot, and if they've already got one via the league it's passed onto 6th place. But, I think losing finalists qualify for a European spot in the FA cup if the winners already have one.

So 7th is a Europa League spot if both FA Cup finalists and the League Cup winner have already finished in the top 6. I think that's the craic anyway.

That's how I always thought it worked. :thup: Love how it always seems to get debated about at some point every season, though. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Tuesday 1 November 2011, 07:24:19 PM
I'm sure there's slightly different rules for the two cups. I think only the winners of the league cup get a European spot, and if they've already got one via the league it's passed onto 6th place. But, I think losing finalists qualify for a European spot in the FA cup if the winners already have one.

So 7th is a Europa League spot if both FA Cup finalists and the League Cup winner have already finished in the top 6. I think that's the craic anyway.

Fair enough. Looking likely a top side will win Carling Cup so half way there.

Don't care who disregards the Europa League, i'd f***ing love to be back in it and get a few cracking away days!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 12:27:29 PM
If we get the same results as last season in the remainder of the games we play this season, (assuming QPR are Blackpool, Norwich are Birmingham, Swansea are West Ham) we would finish on 61 points.

Mind, there were some awful results in there where we should improve this year but some fantastic results like beating Liverpool, Arsenal and drawing against Man United and Chelsea(x2).

61 points on average will see you get around 6th position , although Everton and Liverpool have finished 4th with 61 and 60 points respectively.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Nobody on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 12:31:10 PM
I'm sure there's slightly different rules for the two cups. I think only the winners of the league cup get a European spot, and if they've already got one via the league it's passed onto 6th place. But, I think losing finalists qualify for a European spot in the FA cup if the winners already have one.

So 7th is a Europa League spot if both FA Cup finalists and the League Cup winner have already finished in the top 6. I think that's the craic anyway.

Fair enough. Looking likely a top side will win Carling Cup so half way there.

Don't care who disregards the Europa League, i'd f***ing love to be back in it and get a few cracking away days!
Agree, I want us to get to Europa League, and I want us to try and win it once we're there. Not saying always play our league starting XI, but something like how we treated the League Cup this year would be perfect for me.
Would be fantastic if we could get a Swedish (or even Scandinavian) team if we managed to get in there.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 12:33:32 PM
I really want to travel away for a European game, was a bit young during the last era.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 04:18:01 PM
Loved the random European bullshit games during the Roeder era. Was so confident we were going to win the whole thing after we slaughtered AZ at home. Was browsing airfare costs to Glasgow and everything :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MW on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 04:47:41 PM
I really want to travel away for a European game, was a bit young during the last era.

Same here :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Wednesday 2 November 2011, 04:50:21 PM
I really want to travel away for a European game, was a bit young during the last era.

Same here :thup:

And here. :thup: (Eventhough I've been to Frankfurt for our UEFA Cup away game in 2006.)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Saturday 5 November 2011, 02:48:30 PM
"Rolling League Table"

6th place will be ours if Fulham beat Spurs and we beat Everton.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+41...........77 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........69  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+24.........68  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+11...........59  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+1...........52  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-8............48  (11th, 47)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-20............40  (18th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-22............35  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)

Up to +16 off the same fixtures, with 62 points in the rolling table now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: rocksammy on Saturday 5 November 2011, 02:52:57 PM
"Rolling League Table"

6th place will be ours if Fulham beat Spurs and we beat Everton.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+41...........77 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........69  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+24.........68  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+11...........59  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...+1...........52  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-8............48  (11th, 47)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-20............40  (18th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-22............35  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)

Up to +16 off the same fixtures, with 62 points in the rolling table now.
an everton -2 ye ?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Kanji on Saturday 5 November 2011, 02:57:03 PM
Saying it again, this is an abs. compelling and brilliant thread - the math and logic done on this explains it brilliantly.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 5 November 2011, 05:33:59 PM
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4325/captureupo.png)

:laugh2:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Saturday 5 November 2011, 05:36:04 PM
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4325/captureupo.png)

:laugh2:
:frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 5 November 2011, 05:37:15 PM
Rocky Balboa - Getting strong now - HD 720p (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W37vSkM16ds#ws)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Numbers on Saturday 5 November 2011, 05:37:56 PM
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4325/captureupo.png)

:laugh2:
:promotion:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 5 November 2011, 05:40:00 PM
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4325/captureupo.png)

:laugh2:
:frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:24:38 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:30:51 PM
Harsh :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:45:08 PM
quote author=Sewelly link=topic=89764.msg3318381#msg3318381 date=1320528278]
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.
[/quote]
 
  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:47:53 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.

Pow , right in the kisser.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AliGupter on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:48:12 PM
:memelol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:49:56 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:51:57 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.

Pow , right in the kisser.

To be fair, that post was before the Arteta transfer, I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Baggio on Saturday 5 November 2011, 09:54:19 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.

 :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:01:14 PM
If we lose our next three games, we'll probably still be in the top 6 (just), and we'll have played 9 of last seasons top 10 in our opening 14 games.


But we'll still have played no one.  :sweetjesus:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:01:41 PM
With all due respect, I don't particularly see you as our rivals.

Agreed.

Ouch :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:17:38 PM
"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MW on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:20:00 PM
This has been annoying me for ages.

names       games played     ???           ???
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:21:04 PM
Goal difference and points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MW on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:23:05 PM
so what the league table seems to be on course for based on last season replaced by this years results?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:23:36 PM
so what the league table seems to be on course for based on last season replaced by this years results?

:thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:27:07 PM
Just for a bit of fun, I'm going to be updating last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's equivalent fixtures, and the three promoted clubs replacing the three relegated clubs (Brum with QPR, Blackpool with Norwich & West Ham with Swansea). I will be naming it the "Last season's league table with this season's results replacing last season's and the three promoted clubs replacing the relegated clubs" table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Saturday 5 November 2011, 10:30:43 PM
We can drop out of the top five if Arsenal and Spurs win their next two.

Pardew out!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Sunday 6 November 2011, 01:29:56 AM
"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+11..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-8...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...+1...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-26...........35  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-27...........35  (17th, 40)

Look at the gap from us to Everton who come next. No team below us is doing significantly better than last season, so no signs of anyone doing a charge either. Out of the remaining 27 games, even just nine wins, eight draws and ten defeats would give us 60 points. I think you'd have to say that is the minimum target now.

If anyone is thinking this is all nerdy and crap, feel free to click on another link, but I think it provides lots of context for where the team is and what should be done in January. It was arguable that we could have spent in January and kicked on for a Europa place last season, but absolutely clear as day that we should this year. Its there for the taking.

With four teams (Chelsea are yet to convince) effectively fighting for two CL places, we can expect them to take points off each other and the fourth placed team to be less dominant than before. I'm not saying we'll do it, but it makes it easier for another club to come in and have a go.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Sunday 6 November 2011, 01:33:57 AM
A lot depends on factors such as injuries.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sydneycove on Sunday 6 November 2011, 04:34:48 AM
So even if we lose our next two games if Liverpool lose there next 2 we go above them in that table right (as they won the corresponding fixtures last season)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 6 November 2011, 09:13:34 AM
So even if we lose our next two games if Liverpool lose there next 2 we go above them in that table right (as they won the corresponding fixtures last season)

We'll go 6th if Fulham beat Spurs as well. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ykmkmdd on Sunday 6 November 2011, 11:31:44 AM
OptaJoe Opta Sports
1 - Just 1 of the 25 sides to have won 25+ points in the first 11 games of a PL season have ended outside the top six in that campaign. Form.

 :frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 6 November 2011, 11:41:46 AM
OptaJoe Opta Sports
1 - Just 1 of the 25 sides to have won 25+ points in the first 11 games of a PL season have ended outside the top six in that campaign. Form.

 :frantic:

We're going to be the second.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 6 November 2011, 11:49:44 AM
:lol: :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Sunday 6 November 2011, 11:50:45 AM
Its going to be difficult still (Especially January with Tiote and Ba missing for a month) but we have given ourselves such a platform to build on having turned losses and draws last season to wins this season in most games and still have Wolves, Swansea, Qpr, Norwich, West Brom at home. Next 3 will be tough games but we could be in a strong position still come beginning of January and we will have played the top two teams away. Even losing the next 2 will keep us within 3 points of chelsea (Assuming they beat liverpool)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 6 November 2011, 01:56:01 PM
OptaJoe Opta Sports
1 - Just 1 of the 25 sides to have won 25+ points in the first 11 games of a PL season have ended outside the top six in that campaign. Form.

 :frantic:

Nice :frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Sunday 6 November 2011, 04:40:41 PM
I love how we mathematically can't fall out of the top 7 if we lose all 3 of our next games :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Baggio on Sunday 6 November 2011, 04:43:54 PM
OptaJoe Opta Sports
1 - Just 1 of the 25 sides to have won 25+ points in the first 11 games of a PL season have ended outside the top six in that campaign. Form.

 :frantic:

Anyone know who that was?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 6 November 2011, 04:49:05 PM
I love how we mathematically can't fall out of the top 7 if we lose all 3 of our next games :smug:

:smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Sunday 6 November 2011, 05:18:11 PM
OptaJoe Opta Sports
1 - Just 1 of the 25 sides to have won 25+ points in the first 11 games of a PL season have ended outside the top six in that campaign. Form.

 :frantic:

Anyone know who that was?
Wigan, 05-06 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table/2005-11-05 (http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table/2005-11-05) table after 11 games.

(http://i.imgur.com/M8cX1.gif)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 6 November 2011, 05:20:05 PM
Their record for the rest of that season: P27 W7 D5 L15 :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Troll on Sunday 6 November 2011, 05:42:47 PM
I've noticed everyone saying one team always pushed above their weight at the start of the season, using Hull and Blackpool as examples, so I looked at their seasons.  We're doing better than they ever were.

In 08/09 it took Hull 16 games to get to 25 points.  Those 16 games also included a 5-0 home defeat to Wigan.  After the 16 games they only won one more all season.

In 10/11 it took Blackpool 17 games to equal our current points.  They also picked up 6-0 and 4-0 defeats on the way.

In 04/05 it took Everton 13 games to get what we did in 11.  They qualified for the Champion's League.  Obviously the league was a lot less competitive back then, but I can't see our form dropping so badly we emulate the first two teams.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:02:32 PM
The difference between these teams who started surprisingly well and fell away is that they didn't have the likes of

Krul, Colo, Santon, S Taylor, Jonas, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye, Best, Ba

To name a few, now while I am under no illusions we will finish top 6, we just have a much, much better squad than some of the teams we are being compared to.

They started well probably because they were a bit of a surprise package and had "something to prove" where as we are a team full of quality players who have just had a very good work ethic drummed into them. We also have a team mainly built up of a history of good character/successful lads from the continent looking to succeed in a new league/young and hungry players hoping to push their careers on a notch.

We will be fine, I am still realistic (maybe verging on pessimistic) and will accept a top 10 finish but think 7th is realistic. Even in January I don't think we need a host of new players, a forward and a defender would be sufficient imo even if we don't get both it wouldn't be the end of the world, it's a long season but we are struggling to get Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Santon into the side FFS :lol:

Green with envy  :yao:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:07:27 PM
Going into the international break...

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+12..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-13............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...0...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........38  (17th, 40)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-29...........32  (16th, 42)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Parky on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:08:55 PM
The difference between these teams who started surprisingly well and fell away is that they didn't have the likes of

Krul, Colo, Santon, S Taylor, Jonas, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye, Best, Ba

To name a few, now while I am under no illusions we will finish top 6, we just have a much, much better squad than some of the teams we are being compared to.

They started well probably because they were a bit of a surprise package and had "something to prove" where as we are a team full of quality players who have just had a very good work ethic drummed into them. We also have a team mainly built up of a history of good character/successful lads from the continent looking to succeed in a new league/young and hungry players hoping to push their careers on a notch.

We will be fine, I am still realistic (maybe verging on pessimistic) and will accept a top 10 finish but think 7th is realistic. Even in January I don't think we need a host of new players, a forward and a defender would be sufficient imo even if we don't get both it wouldn't be the end of the world, it's a long season but we are struggling to get Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Santon into the side FFS :lol:

Green with envy  :yao:

Good post.

The Parky long range radar says 6th. Above Liverpool. :yao:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:14:45 PM
Going into the international break...

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+12..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-13............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...0...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........38  (17th, 40)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-29...........32  (16th, 42)



Would settle for that.

Fingers crossed for the long range radar though Parky :thup: lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:30:25 PM
The difference between these teams who started surprisingly well and fell away is that they didn't have the likes of

Krul, Colo, Santon, S Taylor, Jonas, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye, Best, Ba

To name a few, now while I am under no illusions we will finish top 6, we just have a much, much better squad than some of the teams we are being compared to.

They started well probably because they were a bit of a surprise package and had "something to prove" where as we are a team full of quality players who have just had a very good work ethic drummed into them. We also have a team mainly built up of a history of good character/successful lads from the continent looking to succeed in a new league/young and hungry players hoping to push their careers on a notch.

We will be fine, I am still realistic (maybe verging on pessimistic) and will accept a top 10 finish but think 7th is realistic. Even in January I don't think we need a host of new players, a forward and a defender would be sufficient imo even if we don't get both it wouldn't be the end of the world, it's a long season but we are struggling to get Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Santon into the side FFS :lol:

Green with envy  :yao:

Canny post. Agree with everything you've said there :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Parky on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:41:42 PM
Going into the international break...

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+12..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-13............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...0...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........38  (17th, 40)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-29...........32  (16th, 42)



Would settle for that.

Fingers crossed for the long range radar though Parky :thup: lol:

I will break Dalglish. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:45:18 PM
I have faith in you, Suarez breaking his neck after one of his done would help/be pretty funny.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 6 November 2011, 06:49:29 PM
I have faith in you, Suarez breaking his neck after one of his done would help/be pretty funny.

Suarez will be out for the season after the pain from three extra set of wisdom teeth begin to grow through his current set of gnashers.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 6 November 2011, 07:04:52 PM
Going into the international break...

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+44..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+42...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+30..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+12..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+13...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ...-1...........49  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-13............47  (13th, 46)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-4...........46  (14th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-10..........46  (9th, 48)
Fulham................................38......... ...0...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............45  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-24...........38  (17th, 40)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........37  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-29...........32  (16th, 42)



Would settle for that.

Fingers crossed for the long range radar though Parky :thup: lol:

I will break Dalglish. :lol:

Excellent :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 8 November 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Season: Up to Gameweek 11
Newcastle (+6)
Stoke (-2)
Everton, West Brom (-4)
Sunderland, Bolton (-6)
Villa (-7)
Fulham (-9)

Gameweek 11:
Newcastle, Bolton, West Brom, Villa, Sunderland (0)
Fulham, Stoke, Everton (-1)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 8 November 2011, 02:26:20 PM
We broke the league :yao:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 19 November 2011, 01:07:35 PM
If Norwich hang on, we're guaranteed to be at least joint 6th even if we get thumped in the next 3. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 19 November 2011, 01:34:56 PM
If Liverpool & Spurs lose this weekend, we're 1 point off 5th in that rolling table regardless of our result today. :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 21 November 2011, 06:00:32 PM
On our nearest competitor for 7th place:

Quote
With Villa sitting eighth in the table prior to the weekend, Alex McLeish would appear to have made a decent start to his managerial reign at the club. However, he and the club's supporters are acutely aware that the fixture computer gave Villa a relatively gentle start to the campaign.

Not so between now and the end of the year, when they will face Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea and visit Stoke. They will do well to still look in rude health after that punishing sequence.

:yao:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 21 November 2011, 06:18:52 PM
My guess is Everton will be our nearest competitors for 7th spot, so we better be 4 points clear of them by the final day of the season!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 21 November 2011, 09:57:56 PM
With our goal difference we're now effectively 11 points clear of 8th place Villa (who have only won three games, none away from home) after the same number of games.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 21 November 2011, 09:59:32 PM
The cut off in quality after the top 6 is absolutely ludicrous. I can see us being in no mans land between the two leagues that have developed.

Unless Everton pull their finger out.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:12:06 PM
Everton don't have enough quality and depth in attack imo
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:12:45 PM
Say that nearly every season but they always muscle up to being best of the rest.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: alexthegreat on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:13:59 PM
With the exception of ourselves, outside the top 6 theres barely anyone playing football that their fans could be enjoying.

I suppose QPR look alright and Swansea and Norwich are doing quite well.

Everton's supporters were on some sort of a protest march the other day. Stoke fans are subjected to Pulis who might have been found out by the rest of the league.

They're not happy with Bruce at Sunderland. They're not exactly pleased with McLeish at Villa. Rumblings of discontent from Wigan, Bolton, and Wolves. Open revolt at Blackburn.

I actually thought 7th was totally unrealistic at the start of the season, but looking at the state of the sides outside the top 6 I'll be a little disappointed if we don't manage it now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:16:13 PM
Forgot Fulham. Easy mistake to make given how they like to observe their football in respectful silence.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:16:59 PM
To be honest, Spurs winning tonight was proberbly the best thing in the long run, I know we are no longer 3rd but realisticly were not going to finish in the top four, and now that there is a clear 7 piont gap between 8th and 7th and a 10 piont gap between us and 8th, it means that even if we lose our next two games we will still be at least four pionts clear of 8th. We should be complete favorites for 7th, and hopefully teams that end up in the top four end up in the final of the FA and Carling Cups.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:22:15 PM
Btw I know Spurs are good and Villa were bad, but if virtually any team came to SJP and stood off us to the degree they did tonight I'd fancy us to beat them. Villa are currently ranked 8th (ie on form, the best of 'the rest') and the respect they gave Spurs was ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 21 November 2011, 10:34:39 PM
"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+43...........79 (3rd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+29..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........70 (2nd, 71)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+13..........65 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+12...........62  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....0...........51  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-11............47  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........46  (9th, 48)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-5...........45  (14th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-15............44  (13th, 46)
Fulham................................38......... ...-3...........43  (8th, 49)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............42  (18th, 39)
Norwich City..........................38.........-19............41  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-10..........40  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........38  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-25...........37  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-19............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-30...........30  (16th, 42)


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Monday 21 November 2011, 11:35:37 PM
Looking grim for Wigan there. Oh dear. What a shame. Never mind.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The Prophet on Monday 21 November 2011, 11:41:34 PM
Btw I know Spurs are good and Villa were bad, but if virtually any team came to SJP and stood off us to the degree they did tonight I'd fancy us to beat them. Villa are currently ranked 8th (ie on form, the best of 'the rest') and the respect they gave Spurs was ridiculous.

Aye.

We did exactly the same at WHL last season. Shows what great strides we've made really.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cubaricho on Tuesday 22 November 2011, 01:48:47 AM
Looking at this optimistically I think at the end of the season we'll see:

1-6


Newcastle






8-20.

That's being very optimistic though.  I'll be happy with anything better than 10th.  I just see us being in a kind of no-man's land between the top six and 8-> like someone stated above.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Kanji on Tuesday 22 November 2011, 02:19:47 AM
Looking at this optimistically I think at the end of the season we'll see:

1-6


Newcastle






8-20.

That's being very optimistic though.  I'll be happy with anything better than 10th.  I just see us being in a kind of no-man's land between the top six and 8-> like someone stated above.

I'm hoping we finish 6-8th. 6th with some absolute mint luck, and hopefully we round out at 7th. 

Cuba, remember when I said "with luck - we could finish 7th" in the Celt pub before the orlando city friendly? Very well could be a possibility and hope we continue to perform at the high standard for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 26 November 2011, 05:22:47 PM
Joint 6th in this if City win.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 26 November 2011, 05:30:02 PM
Took us eight more games last season to break 25 points. In those eight games we lost four.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 26 November 2011, 05:40:54 PM
I'll do last week's with this week's at the end of the whole game week but you for us it was (0) last week and (+1) this week. Brilliant.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Saturday 26 November 2011, 06:59:33 PM
As if we're TEN points clear of 8th. That's unbelievable.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Sunday 27 November 2011, 02:24:56 AM
Joint 6th in this if City win.
Aye amazing! We mightn't win away at Arsenal, but you'd have to think we can match last years' form on the whole. 63 points!!

In lesser matters, Citeh now top and with a gap if they win today. It'll also knock the wind out of Liverpool, the other big improved team around us in your table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 03:42:05 AM
"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+43...........79 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+42..........78 (1st, 80)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+28..........71  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+26..........70 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+16..........67 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+21.........66  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+15...........63  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+4...........54  (7th, 54)
Aston Villa...........................38............-12..........46  (9th, 48)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............46  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-4...........44  (8th, 49)
Stoke City............................38...........-14............44  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-17............44  (19th, 39)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-9...........42  (14th, 46)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............41 (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21.........38  (15th, 43)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........37  (10th, 47)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........37  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-19............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-27...........33  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:05:43 AM
Really though, is it time to consider ourselves as genuine top 6 contenders? A third of the way through the season, already had our toughest two away matches, and we're set up brilliantly.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ykmkmdd on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:09:58 AM
Really though, is it time to consider ourselves as genuine top 6 contenders? A third of the way through the season, already had our toughest two away matches, and we're set up brilliantly.

I think so - we're in the top 6 on merit and after next week will have played all the other teams in it. Long, long way to go but we're certainly in the mix I reckon.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:11:32 AM
Everton, Villa and Stoke would have been three I thought would challenge for 7th, it might still be the case and the season is long, but I have not seen anything from those 3 that makes me think they are better than us. The rest of the league except the obvious "top 6" are a total pile of w***. We will lose games to a few of them but starting 11 is no better than ours.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:13:04 AM
Will be good to see how well we do against Norwich, Swansea and West Brom as they have slip up written all over them, would like to see us get at least 6 points - should be getting 7-9 though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:13:14 AM
Really though, is it time to consider ourselves as genuine top 6 contenders? A third of the way through the season, already had our toughest two away matches, and we're set up brilliantly.

I still think that finishing 7th is a good and realistic aim, and hope it brings Europe. But no reason why we can't finish top 6. Not many teams this season will go to Old Trafford and get a point. Not many teams will go to Citeh and create half a dozen glorious chances.

The type of games that will define if we can finish top 6 will be beating the duckeggs of the league at home. Thankfully it's something that we've started doing this season.

Just enjoying it while it lasts though. Still 26 games to go, anything can happen.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:15:35 AM
Really though, is it time to consider ourselves as genuine top 6 contenders? A third of the way through the season, already had our toughest two away matches, and we're set up brilliantly.

I still think that finishing 7th is a good and realistic aim, and hope it brings Europe. But no reason why we can't finish top 6. Not many teams this season will go to Old Trafford and get a point. Not many teams will go to Citeh and create half a dozen glorious chances.

The type of games that will define if we can finish top 6 will be beating the duckeggs of the league at home. Thankfully it's something that we've started doing this season.

Just enjoying it while it lasts though. Still 26 games to go, anything can happen.

Its putting those chances away that seems to be our problem, we always create a few. Hopefully we will start finishing them
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cfcmagpies on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:16:09 AM
Will be good to see how well we do against Norwich, Swansea and West Brom as they have slip up written all over them, would like to see us get at least 6 points - should be getting 7-9 though.


 :) Not this Newcastle.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:18:18 AM
Will be good to see how well we do against Norwich, Swansea and West Brom as they have slip up written all over them, would like to see us get at least 6 points - should be getting 7-9 though.




 :) Not this Newcastle.

So far I agree, just always fear when I see games like that because in the past we would have lost 2 out of 3, will know far more about the team after them games than the last 2 and Chelsea I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Sunday 27 November 2011, 10:19:02 AM
Still refusing to believe we will finish better than 8th. Best to keep expectations low for now :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 27 November 2011, 11:53:59 AM
Thought this thread appropriate for this:

Man Utd have dropped points against:
Stoke
Liverpool
Man City
Newcastle

Tottenham have dropped points against:
Man City
Man Utd
Newcastle

:)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Sunday 27 November 2011, 11:55:53 AM
Really though, is it time to consider ourselves as genuine top 6 contenders? A third of the way through the season, already had our toughest two away matches, and we're set up brilliantly.

I would be all for this if the african cup of f***ing nations wasnt looming on the horizon.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 27 November 2011, 12:00:38 PM
Still refusing to believe we will finish better than 8th. Best to keep expectations low for now :)

8th? Who do you think are better than us aside from the obvious six? Good enough to overcome a ten point deficit at least?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 12:06:28 PM
Still refusing to believe we will finish better than 8th. Best to keep expectations low for now :)

8th? Who do you think are better than us aside from the obvious six? Good enough to overcome a ten point deficit at least?

I could potentially see us turning 10 points around, there's absolutely ages to go yet.

That's not to say we will - 16 points from 12 games is like title-winning form for us in the first half of the season, so we might compensate by not actually doing much from January onwards this time.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Sunday 27 November 2011, 01:46:10 PM
Still refusing to believe we will finish better than 8th. Best to keep expectations low for now :)

8th? Who do you think are better than us aside from the obvious six? Good enough to overcome a ten point deficit at least?

With Neil on this, I can well imagine them overtaking us. Come above Everton and we'll have had a tremendous season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 06:25:48 PM
I should emphasise I'm not saying that we will but it's hardly unthinkable. We've made a charge for a few years in a row and I wouldn't expect you to maintain your current rate of points. Equally, you could think "well, we've been better than them this season so see no reason, with a 10 point lead, why we wouldn't finish above them", which is obviously hard to argue against.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Sunday 27 November 2011, 06:27:48 PM
Still refusing to believe we will finish better than 8th. Best to keep expectations low for now :)

8th? Who do you think are better than us aside from the obvious six? Good enough to overcome a ten point deficit at least?

We're only 13 games in man, hell of a long way to go.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Sunday 27 November 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Everton have a nice next 5 games, but they've got a horrible February and March. Should know by the turn of the year what sort of season they're going to have. Last day of the season could end up being a Europa League shootout!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Sunday 27 November 2011, 06:31:59 PM
I think 10 points will be too much for Everton to make up. They have a decent first 11 but their squad is light same as us. A couple of key injuries and they're struggling.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 06:33:44 PM
Everton have a nice next 5 games, but they've got a horrible February and March. Should know by the turn of the year what sort of season they're going to have. Last day of the season could end up being a Europa League shootout!

Fixtures have been comparable to yours really. A few really hard games back to back but now we have some easier games (on paper), which is shown by us winning our last 2.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 27 November 2011, 07:36:19 PM
Surprised some are claiming 7th as pretty much ours just because we're 10 points ahead of 8th. Everton, also with a game in hand, could make it 7 points without us having a say. We've had a fantastic start but anything could happen. Especially considering we're Newcastle United fans ffs. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 07:38:07 PM
Surprised some are claiming 7th as pretty much ours just because we're 10 points ahead of 8th. Everton, also with a game in hand, could make it 7 points without us having a say. We've had a fantastic start but anything could happen. Especially considering we're Newcastle United fans ffs. :lol:

In fairness, if you can't be optimistic after the first 13 games you've had then I don't know when you can.

No doubt you're more likely to finish above us than vice versa but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up the other way round.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 27 November 2011, 07:43:51 PM
I'm optimistic about the team's potential and the future, but there seems to be quite a feeling amongst some that we're easily the best of the rest by some distance. While, obviously, the table doesn't lie, we are right now, pretty much saying the same as you, anything can happen.

Hell, I've got a pre-season bet with an Everton supporting mate that he thought we'd finish above you, and I said you'd finish above us. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Sunday 27 November 2011, 07:49:52 PM
Surprised some are claiming 7th as pretty much ours just because we're 10 points ahead of 8th. Everton, also with a game in hand, could make it 7 points without us having a say. We've had a fantastic start but anything could happen. Especially considering we're Newcastle United fans ffs. :lol:
Hope they do make it 7 without us having a say tbh.  Not that we have a chance in hell of keeping pace with Spurs, but the illusion (delusion) is nice.

So much depends on January. Are we going to sell valuable assets or add to our squad?

Selling Coloccini would be an absolute disaster. Wouldn't put it past Ashley. 
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 27 November 2011, 07:57:28 PM
Surprised some are claiming 7th as pretty much ours just because we're 10 points ahead of 8th. Everton, also with a game in hand, could make it 7 points without us having a say. We've had a fantastic start but anything could happen. Especially considering we're Newcastle United fans ffs. :lol:

If this is in reference to my post, I certainly don't think it's nailed on or owt like that. But as Neil says, we're now a third of the way into the season AND we've played four of the only six teams who will normally win more often than they lose. I'm therefore reasonably convinced that we're a pretty good team, and capable of beating the majority of sides in the league - particularly at home.

We've had a great start but the main thing for me is that we actually look like maintaining it at present, especially considering the way we came back from the City defeat (a game in which we exceeded my expectations anyway). There's a long way to go but I'll be very disappointed if we don't finish in the top half after this start. In fact I think it would require a pathetic rest of the season, considering we're already about half the way towards the points total we'd need based on previous seasons.

The biggest concern I have at the moment is January.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:08:17 PM
:thup: Fair play. Wasn't just you btw, just noticed a few people recently saying there's the top 6, then us, then the rest.

Top half definitely should be minimum now, no argument there. I certainly think we've got the ability to take 7th, just my negative attitude causing me to look at the teams below and think 'they've got a good chance'. At least it'll be even better if we manage it. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:10:13 PM
Throughout the league things are getting scrappy, so now if we can go back to routinelly beating all the teams we should beat we should do very well. The pressure around us scrapping on the bottom half of the table seems to have gone so right now, bar a massive form collapse, going to just enjoy rest of season, top half is really my only expectation now, would be very silly to drop down like that, anything else is a bonus. This has been a very very fun season so far, and don't want to ruin it by getting desperately eyeing up 5th position etc. Next season, with a better squad expectations can rise etc.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: eliassenfredrik on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:19:07 PM
Everton is the only team that in anyway are capable of taking the 7th spot in front of us, as I see it. And that is the absolute worst case scenario. We really have to f*** things up quite heavily to finish below 7th. I'm not saying this to look like a prick, but bar Everton, there aren't any teams capable of doing it really (at least not this season). If we get a result against Chelsea, I don't see how people can't see this. Even if Tiote and Ba goes for a month, I'm fairly positive.

*We've been without Tiote for some matches in a row now, and have looked, let's be honest, impressive against the best teams in the league.
*We have the possibility to buy another DM in January, should it be necessary, same goes for a striker and a CB cover.

I'll admit Arsenal and Liverpool MOST LIKELY will go past us, but we have every opportunity to stop that from happening, and I'll say it; finish 5th. It's optimistic, but it's also realistic. Atm, I only see 4 teams clearly better than us, and we have lost to only 1 of them, before taking on Chelsea.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:23:18 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:26:24 PM
34 points from 25 games to get 60 points seems a more than realistic target.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:26:59 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Absolutely 100% cannot see that unless they really improve, and fast.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:28:19 PM
Maybe, but god McLeish has got me thoroughly depressed whenever they come up on match of the day.

I think Fulham for that 'best of the rest' slot, they are a very odd one, I am never entirely sure if they're good or bad...they just seem to quietly amass points
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:28:34 PM
When put like that, 9 wins, 8 draws and 8 defeats seems a realistic target.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: OzzieMandias on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:31:51 PM
I'm not taking a single thing for granted yet. If we get past the Chelsea game without our heads dropping, then we're right to be optimistic about the rest of the season, but injuries, suspensions and the Africa Cup of Nations could still cost us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Gorilla on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:31:53 PM
Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham, Man City, Man United, we've not played anyone decent yet. 

We didnt get a massive haul from those games but losing only 1 is telling imo, I'm not saying we are top 4 or even top 6, but until we've played barcelona, we havent been proven as a half decent side.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:32:22 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Nah. Nee chance.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Karjala on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:32:58 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.
Theyve looked horse s*** from what ive seen of them.

Everton must be our main rivals for 7th, but theres a long way to go yet!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:37:29 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Nah. Nee chance.

If Villa finish above both Everton and Newcastle and I'm safe from the Leon Best bet, then I'll instead change my display name for a month to "Jenas' #1 fan", display pic to McLeish and will send brummie a personal letter of apology with £20 included for the charity of his choice.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Nobody on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:37:32 PM
Massive that Guthrie has filled in for Tiote as well as he has like. Gives me confidence that we should be able to do well when Tiote is away in January/February.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Karjala on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:39:27 PM
You'd like to think that Best and Ben Arfa could work for a month or so too.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:41:33 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Nah. Nee chance.

If Villa finish above both Everton and Newcastle and I'm safe from the Leon Best bet, then I'll instead change my display name for a month to "Jenas' #1 fan", display pic to McLeish and will send brummie a personal letter of apology with £20 included for the charity of his choice.

:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BooBoo on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:42:50 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Really can't see any basis whatsoever for that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ChrisJbarnes on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:45:54 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Nah. Nee chance.

If Villa finish above both Everton and Newcastle and I'm safe from the Leon Best bet, then I'll instead change my display name for a month to "Jenas' #1 fan", display pic to McLeish and will send brummie a personal letter of apology with £20 included for the charity of his choice.

 :lol: :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gazza ladra on Sunday 27 November 2011, 08:59:24 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Really can't see any basis whatsoever for that.

Fire McLeish. Hire someone other than Kinnear. Done.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:01:07 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Really can't see any basis whatsoever for that.

Fire McLeish. Hire someone other than Kinnear. Done.

(http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/match-centre/article667017.ece/ALTERNATES/gallery-large/Sunderland-Steve-Bruce-laugh-cropped)
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:03:30 PM
I still think Villa will end up best of the rest.

Are we part of 'the rest?' because if they finish above us something will have gone seriously wrong, they're terrible.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:04:33 PM
I just think they're the type of team that will bore their way to quite a few 1-0s. They're fairly solid and have the odd goal in them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:06:23 PM
I just mean best of the none top 6 and us, be it that they finish 7th or 8th.
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:09:53 PM
I agree they've got a few 1-0 wins in em, but for the same reason they'll draw as many due to McLeish and his negative s****. Emile Heskey left wing ffs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:49:12 PM
It's not the other teams I'm worried about, despite our start what I most worry about is shooting ourselves in the foot, be it through a spell of poor form or selling a key player or two in January.

In fact January/February are absolutely massive to our season. How we fare in the transfer window and players being off to the ACN, as well as most injuries taking place around that time (after Christmas, large amount of games in short space of time etc)

Time will tell I guess. I'm still hopeful after our resolve so far like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:50:57 PM
Question is though JH, would you take 7th place this season. ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 27 November 2011, 09:55:41 PM
7th has to be a realistic target now. Having said that I wouldn't be too disappointed if we finished 8th (my prediction for the start of the season iirc).

I'll make a declaration now and say we'll finish 7th come May.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Sunday 27 November 2011, 11:55:49 PM
I think we'll sustain it and finish 5th, above Liverpool and Arsenal, assuming no one leaves in January.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Anderson on Monday 28 November 2011, 12:47:25 AM
It's got to the point where I'd honestly be very disappointed to see us finish below 7th. However, at the same time I still cannot see us finishing any higher. We'll be in no man's land slightly astray from the top 6, but fairly comfortably clear of 8th imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 28 November 2011, 02:40:13 AM
I think we'll sustain it and finish 5th, above Liverpool and Arsenal, assuming no one leaves in January.

I agree with this. So much contingent on January's transfer window, though.

We've been incredible at getting points in games where we haven't dazzled (e.g Wigan 1-0, Fulham 2-1) and with increased confidence, I would like to think we can continue picking up points from our winnable matches to keep us in a lofty position. Not necessarily as consistently as we have so far, but with our start, we potentially don't need to pull up trees to get a top 6 finish, though of course we'll have a go! :laugh:

Arsenal and Liverpool will drop points against "lesser" sides. Arsenal dropped two this weekend at home to Fulham, for instance. Liverpool perform well against the big sides (by defending and counter-attacking) but the boot is on the other foot when "lesser" teams defend against them and they're found wanting in guile. They'll drop points too. Not to mention if Suarez gets injured.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Monday 28 November 2011, 04:37:51 AM
5th might be pushing it a bit. Arsenal(or Van Persie, rather) has been disposing of the "lesser" sides with remarkable efficiency up until this week. I don't see how we could dream of finishing above them unless Van Persie leaves in January.

I'll hold up my hands and say that Liverpool flat-out has more quality than us. A lot will depend on what happens when we play them I suppose.

Right now I'm thinking we'll finish 7th and that in itself would be a huge accomplishment. Just hope we can get a Europa League spot out of it. Would suck if we didn't because of some random team going and winning a cup.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Monday 28 November 2011, 05:01:44 AM
I'll hold up my hands and say that Liverpool flat-out has more quality than us.

not sure i necessarily agree with this like
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 28 November 2011, 07:12:59 AM
Pretty amazing to think that there's a 27 point swing between us & Sunderland in just 13 games compared to last season. :lol:

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+46...........80 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+42..........78 (1st, 80)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+28..........70  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+26..........70 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+15..........67 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+18.........64  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+15...........63  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+4...........54  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............46  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-2...........44  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-12..........44  (9th, 48)
Stoke City............................38...........-14............44  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-17............44  (19th, 39)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-9...........42  (14th, 46)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............39  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........38  (15th, 43)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........37  (10th, 47)
Swansea City........................38.........-18............37  (20th, 33)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........37  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-28...........33  (16th, 42)



Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Monday 28 November 2011, 07:27:31 AM
I'll hold up my hands and say that Liverpool flat-out has more quality than us.

not sure i necessarily agree with this like


I guess there's an argument to be made either way. We're slightly stronger in some areas (central defense) but significantly weaker in others (full backs, right wing.)

Again, a lot will be revealed in our two matches against them. If we're genuinely good enough to be finishing in the top six, you'd hope to see some positive play and a good result both home and away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Monday 28 November 2011, 12:53:59 PM
We could potentially get that 40 point mark by new year, if we do it will be amazing.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 28 November 2011, 03:16:39 PM
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11994/2705370/Premier-League-stats (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11994/2705370/Premier-League-stats)

Newcastle bits:

Cabaye is in the top five tacklers in the league
Ba is in the top five scorers
Newcastle are 7th in the "First Half" PL table
Newcastle are 2nd in the "Second Half" PL table
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Segun Oluwaniyi on Monday 28 November 2011, 03:24:36 PM
I'll hold up my hands and say that Liverpool flat-out has more quality than us.

not sure i necessarily agree with this like


I guess there's an argument to be made either way. We're slightly stronger in some areas (central defense) but significantly weaker in others (full backs, right wing.)

Again, a lot will be revealed in our two matches against them. If we're genuinely good enough to be finishing in the top six, you'd hope to see some positive play and a good result both home and away.
Liverpool's sqaud is significantly stronger and deeper than Newcastle's. There are 6 teams in this league that are clearly better than us by any measure of the the players they possess.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 28 November 2011, 03:26:15 PM
I'll hold up my hands and say that Liverpool flat-out has more quality than us.

not sure i necessarily agree with this like


I guess there's an argument to be made either way. We're slightly stronger in some areas (central defense) but significantly weaker in others (full backs, right wing.)

Again, a lot will be revealed in our two matches against them. If we're genuinely good enough to be finishing in the top six, you'd hope to see some positive play and a good result both home and away.
Liverpool's sqaud is significantly stronger and deeper than Newcastle's. There are 6 teams in this league that are clearly better than us by any measure of the the players they possess.

On paper, Liverpool's squad is clearly superior. But when you consider how the likes of Carroll, Henderson and Downing - all "on paper" good players - are doing, then perhaps the whole notion of which squad has better players is perhaps not that integral.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Monday 28 November 2011, 03:26:18 PM
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11994/2705370/Premier-League-stats (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11994/2705370/Premier-League-stats)

Newcastle bits:

Cabaye is in the top five tacklers in the league
Ba is in the top five scorers
Newcastle are 7th in the "First Half" PL table
Newcastle are 2nd in the "Second Half" PL table

Fitness  :snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:34:05 PM
Season: Up to Gameweek 13
Newcastle (+7)
Everton (-2)
West Brom, Stoke (-5)
Villa, Fulham (-8)
Bolton (-10)
Sunderland (-11)

Gameweek 12:
Newcastle, Everton, West Brom, Fulham (0)
Villa, Bolton (-1)
Sunderland (-2)
Stoke (-3)

Gameweek 13:
Everton (+2)
Newcastle, Fulham (+1)
Villa, Stoke (0)
West Brom (-1)
Sunderland, Bolton (-3)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:50:03 PM
November results - GW 11 to 13
Newcastle, Everton (+1)
Fulham (0)
West Brom, Villa (-1)
Bolton, Stoke (-4)
Sunderland (-5)

Actual table after November
Newcastle (26)
Villa, Everton (16)
Stoke (15)
West Brom (14)
Fulham (12)
Sunderland (11)
Bolton (9)

Projected Final Table (after November results)
Newcastle (65)
Everton (56)
West Brom, Stoke (53)
Villa, Fulham (50)
Bolton (48)
Sunderland (47)

It was another great month for us. It's the third time in four months that we have been the best team out of the 8 teams that I have in this mini-competition. We had 3 tough fixtures, and came out with one more point than what was expected of us. We have a good lead in the real table of 10 points, which although isn't much, is still quite substantial. And now our lead in the projected table is also 9 points, which mirrors our lead in the real table. It shows that we've gone through our tough fixtures well and gotten enough points out of them. From now on the difficulty of our fixtures is similar to Everton's, which means that the ten point lead will be tougher for them to bridge. Stoke are dropping back gradually, and I think we can already rule out Sunderland, Bolton, Villa and Fulham from the race to 7th because they are far, far behind us in the expected table, and most of them are far back in the real table as well.

The interesting case here is actually Villa, who have 16 points, tied with Everton. But they're a massive 6 points behind Everton in the expected table, which means the table thinks that they've got a lot of tough fixtures to come. And what do you know, look at their next set of fixtures. Three of their next four are against Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then they have two straight away matches to Stoke and Chelsea. I think they'll sink very soon.

I also included the projected table here for the first time. I think the 65 points that we're projected to get is actually quite feasible, and would easily get us 7th. Whisper it, but 65 points would probably mean that we challenge for 4th for much of the season ;)

This is up to November so far. Let's hope the table (real and projected) looks as beautiful as it does today in a month's time.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:51:21 PM
As I said the other day, 60 points is a perfectly reasonable target for yous now. 34 points from 25 games is more than attainable.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:54:27 PM
Our rival is obviously Everton, and it's worth noting here that their last three months have been -2, 0 and +1, for a total of -1. They're on form. They're getting the points that they need to get to 58 points, but they have some catching up to do because they lost some easy points at the start of the season. If we lose form then they will catch up very quickly.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:56:39 PM
Their last away win was massive. As big as an away win at Stoke IMO, despite Bolton's low league position. The Reebok will be a tough place to get three points from (as we showed last season) as they're scrapping away but not getting results.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Friday 2 December 2011, 03:59:09 PM
Speaking of Stoke, we have them at home on Sunday. You'd think back-to-back wins would do us the world of good but I don't trust us to get the points we "should".
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Shak on Friday 2 December 2011, 04:01:10 PM
Their last away win was massive. As big as an away win at Stoke IMO, despite Bolton's low league position. The Reebok will be a tough place to get three points from (as we showed last season) as they're scrapping away but not getting results.

To be fair, 6 of the 7 teams who've gone there this season have managed it. :lol:

Not seen much of Bolton at all tbh but isn't the general consensus that they've been woeful?

Agree Everton will be tough to stay ahead of in the league though, that win at home to them was massive for us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Friday 2 December 2011, 04:19:54 PM
Their last away win was massive. As big as an away win at Stoke IMO, despite Bolton's low league position. The Reebok will be a tough place to get three points from (as we showed last season) as they're scrapping away but not getting results.

To be fair, 6 of the 7 teams who've gone there this season have managed it. :lol:

Not seen much of Bolton at all tbh but isn't the general consensus that they've been woeful?

Agree Everton will be tough to stay ahead of in the league though, that win at home to them was massive for us.

I've seen a fair bit of them (somehow). Their results have been poor, that much is self-evident, but they haven't played badly on the whole (though they have in costly parts) and I'd expect their results to pick up and the remaining visitors to expect a tougher time!

[/IMO]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Friday 2 December 2011, 05:17:12 PM
Our rival is obviously Everton, and it's worth noting here that their last three months have been -2, 0 and +1, for a total of -1. They're on form. They're getting the points that they need to get to 58 points, but they have some catching up to do because they lost some easy points at the start of the season. If we lose form then they will catch up very quickly.

Thanks for your efforts. This is a brilliant thread.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Friday 2 December 2011, 06:22:05 PM
I think we're better equipped than Everton mind to pick up the odd win or draw against the top 6.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Friday 2 December 2011, 08:46:25 PM
I think we're better equipped than Everton mind to pick up the odd win or draw against the top 6.

What this has proven to me more than anything is that games against the top 6, strictly from a points standpoint, are almost meaningless (when challenging for 7th). If you beat the rest of the league at home and pick up a few wins and mainly draws away then you're all set. Obviously easier said than done.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Saturday 3 December 2011, 02:49:05 PM
Could well be 7th on Monday night. Thank f*** those 3 games are over, our fixtures now look good for us to build up more points. The most important thing with these 3 games was not losing all of them and the team keeping their confidence afterwards, we got a point in one and I have seen nothing to suggest the lads will be feeling sorry for themselves. Bring on Norwich :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 3 December 2011, 05:25:56 PM
Realistically 7th was always our target, we went into these 3 games 10 points ahead of 8th, we're probably going to come out of it 7 points ahead, I'd say we're looking good still.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ExiledGeordie on Sunday 4 December 2011, 09:07:42 AM
This. We were very unlucky with injuries yesterday but it just served to outline our squad weakness. If you look at the teams above and around us they've all got much big resources and are prepared to plough money into it. Pool have spent a fortune and aren't even guaranteed to get into the top four, Chelsea still have Roman behind them with his billions, Man U will always be up there and Man City have a sovereign state behind them ffs. Spurs might not pay out what Chelsea and Man City pay but then who does and they still splash the cash in the transfer window. We were only ever going to be able to stay right up there with no injuries whatsoever and that was never going to happen.

Having seen Villa yesterday they've turned into exactly what everyone thought they might turn into under Mcleish, a drab uninspiring side looking to grind out victories. We may also see Everton come on 2nd half of the season but for me I can't see us finishing much beyond 8th. We'll have to ride these next few weeks out and it could get ugly but get Colo, Williamson and Tiote back and we'll be much, much stronger then look to buy in Jan.

Do you reckon fatty would sell Colo or Tiote or both after the latest squad injuries now? Surely suicidal.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Karjala on Sunday 4 December 2011, 09:55:38 AM
Do you reckon fatty would sell Colo or Tiote or both after the latest squad injuries now? Surely suicidal.
Yep, no doubt about it.

Yesterday could be the turning point of our season, not result wise, but injury wise. I expected us to get 0 points from those 3, and it was all about how we bounced back in the next winnable 4 matches. But f***, those Taylor and Colo injuries make it hard now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BlueStar on Sunday 4 December 2011, 10:24:10 AM
I think so far we've shown ourselves to be the 7th best team in the league.  There's a big gulf after the best six, but we're the best of the rest.  Sadly, I don't know if that'll continue to be the case if our squad depth keeps being tested.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 4 December 2011, 10:59:40 AM
This. We were very unlucky with injuries yesterday but it just served to outline our squad weakness. If you look at the teams above and around us they've all got much big resources and are prepared to plough money into it.

Not sure to what extent I agree with this - because it's something that's been said a lot after the Chelsea game.

Obviously I recognise our squad is weaker than those above us, but I don't think it's terribly weak - as has been intimated. Can't think of any side (bar Citeh?) that wouldn't struggle against a Top Five side with their first three centre-backs out, their midfield general out and their most consistent creative midfielder suspended.
(For Man Utd: Vidic, Ferdinand, Smalling, Cleverley, Rooney   
For Arsenal: well, just look at their pre-Vermaelan return results     
For Spurs: King, Kaboul, Dawson, Parker, Modric  [c.f their Manc results])

Of course, we should have a fourth centre back, but I think having those five particular players out is a credible extenuating circumstance. I think in midfield, whilst obviously I'd prefer Tiotes, Cabayes and Gutierrezes to be in the team - I'm more than happy for the likes of Guthrie, Marveaux, Gosling and Sammy's to come into the job or off the bench to do a job. They're not like-for-like world-beaters like Man City's subs, but I don't think they're calibre constitutes "weakness in our depth" whatsoever. Obviously if we have to play three or four of them at once, it becomes an issue, but once again - that for me is a credible extenuating circumstance given our resources.

Up front I'm quite happy with our pool of four as it stands. Ba, Best, Ben Arfa and Ameobi are a good four for me (though I know not for other posters on this board) for a club with our resources. With us operating in the few competitions we are, I think it'd be difficult for us acquire, pay the wages of and satisfy any other first-team strikers.

As for defence - we simply need more competent bodies. Not world beaters, again.. but more dependable strong athletes mainly!

I'm generally very happy with the way our first-team is looking too.

[/IMO]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 4 December 2011, 05:13:51 PM
Great result for us today.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 4 December 2011, 05:15:08 PM
Did you see us? We're more likely to threaten Sunderland than yous if we play like that many more times.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Karjala on Sunday 4 December 2011, 07:53:29 PM
Well, s**derland will soon be contesting 7th place too, don't you know?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Sunday 4 December 2011, 08:11:28 PM
I still think we are more involved in the battle for 4th not 7th
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 4 December 2011, 08:28:43 PM
No.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Sunday 4 December 2011, 08:30:38 PM
No.

Defeatist
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: optimistic nit on Sunday 4 December 2011, 09:40:01 PM
so p*ssed we lost taylor and colo in 1 game. we could really have done with a decent defence over the christmas period.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Monday 5 December 2011, 05:57:58 AM
No.

Defeatist

We were never in the battle for 4th and we certainly aren't now :lol:

Just hope we can come out of December with our head start over the chasing pack intact.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Monday 5 December 2011, 10:08:23 AM
No.

Defeatist

We were never in the battle for 4th and we certainly aren't now :lol:

Just hope we can come out of December with our head start over the chasing pack intact.

Honestly, I can't emphasise how poor we were yesterday. Yes, the referee was abysmal and gave countless decisions wrongly against us, but that shouldn't mean we can disregard our shocking performance. Absolutely dour bollocks.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Monday 5 December 2011, 10:29:49 AM
We were 3rd so we were involved in the battle for 4th and had a chance of being up there for a while but losing Taylor for the season is huge blow, Colo being out for a while is another huge blow.
Our main problem is we have to rely on Ashley to put this issue right but we know he won't.. we need 2x CB a LB abd a striker all in January, so that going to be at least £20m and no way he spends that not without selling Tiote or Krul or another massively important player..
Spurs are doing it right, building a squad by 100% backing their manager, Harry says no sale the player stays, he says he wants such and such they make it happen. Pardew must be shitting himself now, lost two of his most important players and having to rely on an utter c*** to give him the tools to o his job.
IF and its a massive IF Ashley does do it right we can be right back in the fight for a top spot but if he fks us over again we may be lucky to finish top half.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 5 December 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Our squad depth is now going to be tested what with our injury problems now. Still think we'll just about have enough about ourselves to maintain our position around 6th/7th in the coming weeks (certainly before we face Man U at St. James').

Of course, whether we'll maintain 6th/7th over the course of season is another matter. It's safe to say that the January transfer window becomes a very important month for us. We all knew we had a small squad compared to others so we need to sign reinforcements who are PL ready more than anything so that we can maintain our challenge to be the best of the rest.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:41:46 PM
Could Man u and Man city going out of the champions league mean England lose their 4th CL spot?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:43:05 PM
Could Man u and Man city going out of the champions league mean England lose their 4th CL spot?

No. Not for a one year flop.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:43:30 PM
Could Man u and Man city going out of the champions league mean England lose their 4th CL spot?

Not sure one bad season will do it, but throw in the fact the Europa League teams aren't doing particularly great either, and another 1-2 years like this one and it might be.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Could Man u and Man city going out of the champions league mean England lose their 4th CL spot?

Nah, works on the last five seasons IIRC.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:44:26 PM
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html (http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:46:12 PM
Sure money has an influence too. :shifty:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:55:36 PM
Despite our defeat meaning we drop 1 point, Liverpool & Everton's defeats mean they drop 3 points from last season, pushing us upto 6th, and extending our gap over Everton. :lol:

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+49...........80 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+43..........80 (1st, 80)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+32..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+29..........72 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+17..........67 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+12...........62  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+14.........61  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........51  (7th, 54)
Fulham................................38......... ...+2...........47  (8th, 49)
Stoke City............................38...........-12............47  (13th, 46)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-15............44  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-20............44  (19th, 39)
Aston Villa...........................38............-13..........43  (9th, 48)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-11...........42  (14th, 46)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-19............40  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-19..........40  (15th, 43)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........37  (10th, 47)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-26...........37  (17th, 40)
Swansea City........................38.........-20............36  (20th, 33)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-32...........32  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 09:59:45 PM
O-Nut, how closely is the form of the promoted sides this season mirroring those of last season? Big swing, or about the same?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 10:01:17 PM
O-Nut, how closely is the form of the promoted sides this season mirroring those of last season? Big swing, or about the same?

Norwich are 5 points better off than Blackpool, Swansea 3 points better off than West Ham, QPR a point better off than Birmingham.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 10:08:16 PM
O-Nut, how closely is the form of the promoted sides this season mirroring those of last season? Big swing, or about the same?

Norwich are 5 points better off than Blackpool, Swansea 3 points better off than West Ham, QPR a point better off than Birmingham.

Promoted sides.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 10:10:50 PM
I'm not working that out it'll take ages. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 11:34:19 PM
We were 3rd so we were involved in the battle for 4th and had a chance of being up there for a while but losing Taylor for the season is huge blow, Colo being out for a while is another huge blow.
Our main problem is we have to rely on Ashley to put this issue right but we know he won't

No, our main problem is that our two central defenders both went off injured in the last match :lol: you've even said as much in the previous sentence!

.. we need 2x CB a LB abd a striker all in January, so that going to be at least £20m and no way he spends that not without selling Tiote or Krul or another massively important player..

Aye :lol: another fan who continues to labour under this disproven belief that money = quality/success. As a club that can't afford to continually miss on expensive, over-paid transfers (see: 2003-2009 for evidence), why are you advocating a policy where we waste more money?? (which we'll only be able to recover by selling one of our 'stars'?)

It seems to be pure nonsense to want to splash loads of money on players who may or may not be successful at the club, while continually fretting over who we will cash in on next in order to 'balance the books' ???

For less than £20m in transfers we signed: 1 defender, 4 midfielders and 2 forwards between the last two windows - chances are, we're going to be doing a similar thing again over the next two windows: bring in 4-5 low-risk, high-potential players who can play in more than one position in order to build squad depth.

The immediate results of this policy have so far been successful, as we're not only playing more attractive football (in the eyes of most supporters) but we're also picking up more points in the league: success breeds success.

Spurs are doing it right, building a squad by 100% backing their manager, Harry says no sale the player stays, he says he wants such and such they make it happen. Pardew must be shitting himself now, lost two of his most important players and having to rely on an utter c*** to give him the tools to o his job.
IF and its a massive IF Ashley does do it right we can be right back in the fight for a top spot but if he fks us over again we may be lucky to finish top half.

Ashley's "f***ing over" on the playing side last season consisted of flogging Andy Carroll at the highest possible price, leaving us with 'only' Shola Ameobi, Peter Lovenkrands and Leon Best as recognised senior strikers for the last 4 months of the season. The £3-4million in prize money we missed out on from the bottom half league finish has more than likely been compensated by the British transfer-record-breaking Carroll fee (at least as far as MA is concerned).

He's liable to make more unpopular/gaudy decisions as the season continues, I have little doubt about that, but almost all of them will be on the non-playing side (i.e. our new shirt sponsor) rather than having a negative impact on the playing side.

Spurs have been building towards their current situation for the past 5 years - think Jacques Santini, Martin Jol, Juande Ramos, then Harry Redknapp - with a fair volume of player turnover to go with it. Have a little patience, Pards has only been in the hotseat 12months..!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roids on Wednesday 7 December 2011, 11:44:14 PM
Stu, some common sense, very refreshing :clap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Thursday 8 December 2011, 12:46:08 AM
Ashley's transfer policy is all about running the club as an efficient business with 0 room for sentiment.

The fans are all about sentiment with 0 appreciation for efficient business.

Naturally he's done s*** we don't like in the past and will continue to do so in the future. In some ways, maybe that's a good thing.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Thursday 8 December 2011, 08:37:29 AM
We were 3rd so we were involved in the battle for 4th and had a chance of being up there for a while but losing Taylor for the season is huge blow, Colo being out for a while is another huge blow.
Our main problem is we have to rely on Ashley to put this issue right but we know he won't

No, our main problem is that our two central defenders both went off injured in the last match :lol: you've even said as much in the previous sentence!

.. we need 2x CB a LB abd a striker all in January, so that going to be at least £20m and no way he spends that not without selling Tiote or Krul or another massively important player..

Aye :lol: another fan who continues to labour under this disproven belief that money = quality/success. As a club that can't afford to continually miss on expensive, over-paid transfers (see: 2003-2009 for evidence), why are you advocating a policy where we waste more money?? (which we'll only be able to recover by selling one of our 'stars'?)

It seems to be pure nonsense to want to splash loads of money on players who may or may not be successful at the club, while continually fretting over who we will cash in on next in order to 'balance the books' ???

For less than £20m in transfers we signed: 1 defender, 4 midfielders and 2 forwards between the last two windows - chances are, we're going to be doing a similar thing again over the next two windows: bring in 4-5 low-risk, high-potential players who can play in more than one position in order to build squad depth.

The immediate results of this policy have so far been successful, as we're not only playing more attractive football (in the eyes of most supporters) but we're also picking up more points in the league: success breeds success.

Spurs are doing it right, building a squad by 100% backing their manager, Harry says no sale the player stays, he says he wants such and such they make it happen. Pardew must be shitting himself now, lost two of his most important players and having to rely on an utter c*** to give him the tools to o his job.
IF and its a massive IF Ashley does do it right we can be right back in the fight for a top spot but if he fks us over again we may be lucky to finish top half.

Ashley's "f***ing over" on the playing side last season consisted of flogging Andy Carroll at the highest possible price, leaving us with 'only' Shola Ameobi, Peter Lovenkrands and Leon Best as recognised senior strikers for the last 4 months of the season. The £3-4million in prize money we missed out on from the bottom half league finish has more than likely been compensated by the British transfer-record-breaking Carroll fee (at least as far as MA is concerned).

He's liable to make more unpopular/gaudy decisions as the season continues, I have little doubt about that, but almost all of them will be on the non-playing side (i.e. our new shirt sponsor) rather than having a negative impact on the playing side.

Spurs have been building towards their current situation for the past 5 years - think Jacques Santini, Martin Jol, Juande Ramos, then Harry Redknapp - with a fair volume of player turnover to go with it. Have a little patience, Pards has only been in the hotseat 12months..!

BUT this is the January window, we get one month and the world knows we are desperate for a CB.. prices will go up and this time Ashley cannot afford to play hard ball.
Its going to take money to get what we need, you can't do summer type business in this window.. Think Liverpool would have paid £35m for Carroll in the summer?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 8 December 2011, 10:23:10 AM
Ashley won't pay over the odds for anyone IMO, so it's pointless to even worry about it. Let's just hope we can find some more of the signings we've been making so far. If so, we'll be fine.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Thursday 8 December 2011, 10:47:04 AM
Given Ashley's focus to keep the books balanced (or better), I'd rather absolute minimal transfer activity this January (that being the drafting of a reasonably experienced, if unspectacular, cover for CB) if it meant we could keep hold of Krul, Tiote and Colo beyond the forthcoming summer.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 8 December 2011, 11:08:45 AM
Despite the injuries, there's no reason at all why we can't compete with Chelsea & Arsenal over the next few weeks mind. Can see us 5th by the end of the next set of matches.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 10 December 2011, 04:49:54 PM
^ Nearly right.

So we're down to 7th now. I'll be delighted if we end the season there.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Saturday 10 December 2011, 05:04:56 PM
^ Nearly right.

So we're down to 7th now. I'll be delighted if we end the season there.

Jauary window will make or break our season
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: johnnypd on Saturday 10 December 2011, 05:07:04 PM
^ Nearly right.

So we're down to 7th now. I'll be delighted if we end the season there.

Jauary window will make or break our season

Getting through this tough period we're in concerning injuries and form, and then buying the players we need rather than selling anyone in Jan - will make or break our season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Saturday 10 December 2011, 05:08:55 PM
^ Nearly right.

So we're down to 7th now. I'll be delighted if we end the season there.

Jauary window will make or break our season

Getting through this tough period we're in concerning injuries and form, and then buying the players we need rather than selling anyone in Jan - will make or break our season.

Until the window opens its massively important we can get Colo, Willi and Tiote back.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: WashyGeordie on Saturday 10 December 2011, 05:11:38 PM
We've won the battle for 7th!  :frantic:














 :tumbleweed:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 10 December 2011, 11:47:37 PM
^ Nearly right.

So we're down to 7th now. I'll be delighted if we end the season there.

Oh most definitely. I would hope that we're able to add to the squad in January so that we can actually maintain this position in the table. We've just seen how injuries have been a detriment to the team ie. players being played completely out of position.

3/4 bodies in and we should have enough to finish 7th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 11 December 2011, 05:57:37 PM
Lead now just five points. :(
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 11 December 2011, 06:01:03 PM
Lead now just five points. :(

Ahh shattap man. It'll be stretched again in a couple of weeks, yee of little faith.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 11 December 2011, 06:05:57 PM
Hope so. Need some players back though. :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Sunday 11 December 2011, 06:12:48 PM
Hope so. Need some players back though. :thup:

:thup: just goes to show the importance of picking up as many points as you can when the opportunities are there. We were always going to have a game turn out like yesterday's, we've come a long way in a much shorter time than any of us (realistically) imagined, so I'm thankful the team over-performed when the squad was fit and mostly available.

Could be a tough month until Colo+Tiote are back :(
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 11 December 2011, 06:37:26 PM
Hope so. Need some players back though. :thup:

If Colo and Tiote are back for Swansea next week, it'll be a massive lift for everyone involved in the club. I'm sure once Williamson comes back and gets up to speed, we'll be alright.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 11 December 2011, 08:04:18 PM
Sunderland drop into the bottom three by virtue of them only holding their points against Blackburn, and Swansea beating Fulham where West Ham only drew last year. We close the gap on Spurs as well. :lol:

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+50...........80 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+32..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+15..........64 (5th, 62)
Newcastle United.................38...........+10...........61  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+10.........61  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........51  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-10............50  (13th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........46  (9th, 48)
Norwich City..........................38.........-18............46  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...0...........45  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-16............43  (11th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-15............40  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-17..........40  (15th, 43)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-13...........39  (14th, 46)
Swansea City........................38.........-18............38  (20th, 33)
Sunderland..........................38...........-15..........37  (10th, 47)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-28...........37  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-31...........34  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 17 December 2011, 04:55:18 PM
Gap to eight place down to three points. Desperately poor result.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 17 December 2011, 05:04:30 PM
Big hit today with Stoke gaining 3 points, and us dropping 2 as well as 5 goals compared to the West Ham 5-0 last season.

"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+50...........80 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+45..........80 (1st, 80)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+32..........72  (4th, 68)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+15..........64 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+10.........61  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+5...........59  (12th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-8............53  (13th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....0...........49  (7th, 54)
Norwich City..........................38.........-16............47  (19th, 39)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........46  (9th, 48)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............46  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-1...........45  (8th, 49)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-15............40  (18th, 39)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-12...........39  (14th, 46)
Swansea City........................38.........-13............39  (20th, 33)
Sunderland..........................38...........-15..........37  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........37  (15th, 43)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-31...........34  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-31...........34  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 17 December 2011, 05:32:04 PM
Well, at least Stoke's next game is a bitch. [/silver lining]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 17 December 2011, 08:56:32 PM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4085/captureqop.png)

:blackeye:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 17 December 2011, 09:07:56 PM
Bit of a sickener that even if we'd just picked up an extra 2 points from the last 2 games we'd have realistically been in with a shot of going into the New Year in a top 4 spot.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Disco on Saturday 17 December 2011, 09:45:45 PM
Seems like we love a midseason plateau. Lack of depth in the squad almost certainly being the issue IMO.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 17 December 2011, 11:55:54 PM
I still think that with a few additions in January (well, a few might be a bit optimistic), we'll have just about enough to maintain 7th place.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Sunday 18 December 2011, 12:01:01 AM
Need a favour from Villa thmora and Citeh to bounce back against Arsenal.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 18 December 2011, 12:55:03 AM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4085/captureqop.png)

:blackeye:

To be fair though looking at that graph, the distance has stayed constant throughout our bad patch. Could narrow on Wednesday mind.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Sunday 18 December 2011, 08:21:55 PM
Almost half way through the season and we are 7th. There is nobody below us who i think are better than us nor have what it take to finish above us.

With a good January transfer window we could even look to finish 6th and really get in amongst Arsenal and Liverpool.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 18 December 2011, 08:42:08 PM
Team who've improved most - Newcastle (13 points better off)
Team who've declined most - Sunderland (11 points worse off)


"Rolling League Table"

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+54...........83 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+47..........82 (1st, 80)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+28..........69  (4th, 68)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+16..........66 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+13.........64  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+5...........59  (12th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-8............53  (13th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....0...........49  (7th, 54)
Norwich City..........................38.........-16............47  (19th, 39)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............46  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-1...........45  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-14..........43  (9th, 48)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-12...........39  (14th, 46)
Swansea City........................38.........-13............39  (20th, 33)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-17............39  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-20..........37  (15th, 43)
Sunderland..........................38...........-16..........36  (10th, 47)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-31...........34  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-31...........34  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ryan on Sunday 18 December 2011, 08:44:05 PM
Team who've improved most - Newcastle (13 points better off)
Team who've declined most - Sunderland (11 points worse off)

 :iamatwat:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 18 December 2011, 09:14:14 PM
Team who've improved most - Newcastle (13 points better off)
Team who've declined most - Sunderland (11 points worse off)

 :iamatwat:

Nice :bluestar:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 21 December 2011, 10:25:54 PM
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4083/capturefpc.png)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 21 December 2011, 10:26:47 PM
:okay:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Wednesday 21 December 2011, 10:36:13 PM
I still think that with a few additions in January (well, a few might be a bit optimistic), we'll have just about enough to maintain 7th place.

If I keep telling myself this, then it might happen :undecided:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SteveMc on Wednesday 21 December 2011, 10:38:36 PM
I predict a decline into retirement for this thread.  Bit depressed after that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 21 December 2011, 10:39:28 PM
We could lose 4-5 more in a row and we'll still be in this battle even if we're a few points adrift.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Monday 26 December 2011, 05:19:52 PM
Wow, just look at the table and think if we would have won those 2 home games against Swansea and WBA...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 26 December 2011, 05:26:15 PM
Forgot about this on Wednesday, "Rolling League Table"

Stoke & Liverpool drop 2 points, we gain 3.

(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+55..........84 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........70 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+28..........69  (4th, 68)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+17..........66 (5th, 62)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+12.........63  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+10...........61  (12th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............51  (13th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+1...........51  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-10............49  (11th, 47)
Norwich City..........................38.........-12............48  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........45  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-12..........45  (9th, 48)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-16...........39  (14th, 46)
Swansea City........................38.........-14............38  (20th, 33)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-20............36  (18th, 39)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........35  (15th, 43)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-34...........34  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-35...........32  (17th, 40)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Monday 26 December 2011, 05:29:18 PM
What a difference a win makes. :fwap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Jayson on Monday 26 December 2011, 05:30:16 PM
Hit 30 pts 6 games earlier than last season then? Pretty good.

With pools current form & their issues with Suarez, 6th is there for the taking. Need this to spur us on again.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:34:54 PM
Just seen that Blackpool had 25 points after 17 games last season and still went down. Impressive really.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:38:06 PM
Just seen that Blackpool had 25 points after 17 games last season and still went down. Impressive really.

Their record for the rest of the season was P:21 W:3 D:5 L:13.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:39:13 PM
Just seen that Blackpool had 25 points after 17 games last season and still went down. Impressive really.

Their record for the rest of the season was P:21 W:3 D:4 L:13.

Unbelievable really. Saying that, our record in our relegation season wasn't much worse post that West Ham game that we drew 2-2.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:39:55 PM
I missed a draw from that post, amended after you quoted. Amazingly s**** though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:42:39 PM
They got 1 draw against us. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Monday 26 December 2011, 06:45:09 PM
If Villa beat Stoke tonight there'll be a nice 6 point cushion between us and 8th place. A draw'd be areet too, 5 point cushion.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:03:47 PM
What a difference a win makes. :fwap:

:snod:

It is nice to have the buzz from winning a game back amongst our lives. Yay.

Bring on the Scousers tbh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:05:21 PM
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1151/captureeao.png)

Bit better.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:11:27 PM
What a difference a win makes. :fwap:

:snod:

It is nice to have the buzz from winning a game back amongst our lives. Yay.

Bring on the Scousers tbh.

You make it sound like we've had a s*** season :lol: victory was good today?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:13:44 PM
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1151/captureeao.png)

Bit better.
It took us an extra 5 games to get the pions tally were on now, shows we've improved quite abit.

It would be interesting to see where we were on our relegation season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:23:31 PM
As you wish. Added it last so the line formats are the same as before.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3674/captureyid.png)

Interesting to note the points at 19 games...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:31:26 PM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 26 December 2011, 07:49:06 PM
As you wish. Added it last so the line formats are the same as before.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3674/captureyid.png)

Interesting to note the points at 19 games...

Very interesting.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:15:10 AM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:21:26 AM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.

It is mad how his form/goalscoring just deserted him. 16 goals in 34 in 2008, to a goal in January and f*** all else. And that goalscoring run also included a pretty hefty chunk playing under Kinnear. Christ.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:24:51 AM
I'll update the OP after the Liverpool match so the December results can be posted in one post. We have had a pathetic month but we can end up ok if we somehow manage to win at Anfield.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:39:51 AM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.

It is mad how his form/goalscoring just deserted him. 16 goals in 34 in 2008, to a goal in January and f*** all else. And that goalscoring run also included a pretty hefty chunk playing under Kinnear. Christ.

Aye. He basically was scoring goals for fun at the start of the season.

Think our team really fell apart after that 5-1 defeat against Liverpool at SJP, the game after which Given decided he wanted to leave. Think that really also got on the confidence on all the other players, including Owen.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 02:41:52 PM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.

It is mad how his form/goalscoring just deserted him. 16 goals in 34 in 2008, to a goal in January and f*** all else. And that goalscoring run also included a pretty hefty chunk playing under Kinnear. Christ.

Aye. He basically was scoring goals for fun at the start of the season.

Think our team really fell apart after that 5-1 defeat against Liverpool at SJP, the game after which Given decided he wanted to leave. Think that really also got on the confidence on all the other players, including Owen.

Good point, Given must have been one of the vocal ones in the dressing room (being one of the most senior players and all that) so losing him must have been a massive blow to the others. Owen was never the one to "lead" really, yes he was the club captain but he has always been a "follower". He strikes me as someone who is somewhat insecure (some of his tweets reinforce this) and being a captain in a relegation battle must have got to him badly.

(Owen's still a c*** mind).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:49:54 PM
After today's matches. Top-six with a draw on Friday.

"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester United.............38............+55..........84 (1st, 80)
Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+27..........70 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+21..........69 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........67  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+12.........63  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+10...........61  (12th, 46)
Stoke City............................38...........-9............51  (13th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+1...........51  (7th, 54)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-10............49  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........45  (8th, 49)
Aston Villa...........................38............-12..........45  (9th, 48)
Norwich City..........................38.........-16............45  (19th, 39)
Swansea City........................38.........-13............39  (20th, 33)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-16...........39  (14th, 46)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-21..........35  (15th, 43)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............34  (18th, 39)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-34...........34  (16th, 42)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-35...........32  (17th, 40)


[/quote]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tooj on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:54:52 PM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.

It is mad how his form/goalscoring just deserted him. 16 goals in 34 in 2008, to a goal in January and f*** all else. And that goalscoring run also included a pretty hefty chunk playing under Kinnear. Christ.

More than likely that move to Man Utd was already lined up, he just wasn't officially allowed to sign on the dotted line for those last six months of the season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dinho lad on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:56:36 PM
Hmmm, didn't realise that at 19 games last season, we had the same number of points at the same point in the relegation season.

Our form in the second half of the 08/09 season properly screwed us (we deserved to go down from our "performances" from January onwards really).

True. Said it before, our form post West Ham in January (and even Owen's form, because this was the last game he scored for us) saw us going down.

It is mad how his form/goalscoring just deserted him. 16 goals in 34 in 2008, to a goal in January and f*** all else. And that goalscoring run also included a pretty hefty chunk playing under Kinnear. Christ.

More than likely that move to Man Utd was already lined up, he just wasn't officially allowed to sign on the dotted line for those last six months of the season.

Didn't he meet representatives from Hull?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 09:58:25 PM
He couldn't have cared less in that pivotal Boro game. Spend 70 minutes or so hiding behind Matthew Bates before Shearer took him off and replaced with Martins  - who contrary to popular opinion actually did give a semblance of a s***.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 10:01:08 PM
He couldn't have cared less in that pivotal Boro game. Spend 70 minutes or so hiding behind Matthew Bates before Shearer took him off and replaced with Martins  - who contrary to popular opinion actually did give a semblance of a s***.

Bottled the Stoke game mind.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dinho lad on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 10:01:31 PM
He couldn't have cared less in that pivotal Boro game. Spend 70 minutes or so hiding behind Matthew Bates before Shearer took him off and replaced with Martins  - who contrary to popular opinion actually did give a semblance of a s***.

Bottled the Stoke game mind.

 :whistle:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 10:04:25 PM
Aye. Right.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Tuesday 27 December 2011, 10:07:53 PM
Owen was superb in the Stoke game, of course. He had about six f***ing touches all game, can remember him falling over a lot and generally doing nothing.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Wednesday 28 December 2011, 12:45:17 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

We've made a fantastic start, but forgive me if I say I'm going to read this post again at Christmas. :laugh:

;)

We need to go for it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 28 December 2011, 12:59:03 PM
We have a good team but a small squad. If we strengthen in January then there's no reason why we can't push for the top four. Our first eleven is almost as good Liverpool's and Spurs', and with Arsenal in free fall, we're in with a chance. Why not us, huh? Our front six - with Ben Arfa - is f***ing electric. This team - more and more - reminds me of SBR's; young, quick, technically excellent.

I said it many times in the summer that Liverpool aren't as good as people were making them out to be and that we weren't far from them. Our form early on has just confirmed this fact: we aren't far away. I was planning on making a 'why we have a chance of finishing above Liverpool this season' thread but the last day of the window killed that, but the basic facts still remain: we have a good first eleven that is gelling well. We play good possession football and we have two strikers who can score goals in the Premiership. We also have one of the most electric players in the Premiership and he's played 20 minutes in the league so far, yet we still have 15 points.

I still think we'll drop back and end up competing for 7th - with Everton, who I still rate, and Villa, because they have a good set of players - because the ANC will rob us of Ba and more importantly, Tiote, and that an injury or two in a key position - like Cabaye or Coloccini - will leave us very vulnerable. That's why strengthening in January is a must if we have a shot at fourth place. We still have a lot of tough fixtures to come - particularly the 5 game run from Stoke away to Chelsea at home, a f***ing killer run of games - but we have had an easy-ish start that we should be able to build on with some good fortune in the injury department. I know it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to play our best first eleven in every match, but if we were able to then there's no doubt in my mind that we'd be contenders for 4th.

We've made a fantastic start, but forgive me if I say I'm going to read this post again at Christmas. :laugh:

;)

We need to go for it.

Fair play. :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Not the worst set of results for us today, Villa's win aside.
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5363/captureng.png)

Last year starting to catch up a bit now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:05:45 PM
:(
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: LesPaul on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:07:22 PM
I don't think we're capable of pushing for 7th if we don't strengthen in the New Year. Its only a matter of time before Stoke pass us out.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ChrisJbarnes on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:07:46 PM
Still 4 points clear of 8th halfway through the season. Tough to call who are our immediate rivals though
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sicko2ndbest on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:08:43 PM
2 first team players in January in key positions and i think 7th is very achievable

As we are now, add in the loss of Tiote and Ba and it will be 8-12th
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:09:22 PM
Still 4 points clear of 8th halfway through the season. Tough to call who are our immediate rivals though

(http://threadbombing.com/data/media/2/everyone.gif)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:11:18 PM
We need our confidence back, the ACN will cripple us though, its going to be a tough old January.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:15:21 PM
Still, we're 7th at the halfway point of the season with 30 points and we're also 4 points ahead of 8th. Decent achievement, we are where we want to be, position-wise. Really hope we can maintain it (two signings and I think we'll just about have enough.....).

Of course, not the best end to 2011 with a fair few worrying signs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:17:43 PM
Stoke and Villa are our immediate rivals IMO. Norwich and WBA could come into it, depending on how our next couple of games go.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Atticus on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:21:03 PM
Everton.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:22:22 PM
Fulham.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Atticus on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:22:41 PM
No.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ExiledGeordie on Saturday 31 December 2011, 05:30:28 PM

Even given our run of results recently we're still sitting in 7th. Villa had a great result today and Stoke despite drawing are breathing down our necks now. With a few signings we could happily cement 7th place and push on second half of the season but we have a board which appears to be completely disinterested in progression and so they've obviously done the "we're pretty much safe" calculations and will let the season just play out.

If Ba stays fit and we bring in one defending I can see us finishing anywhere from 7th-9th. If Ba gets injured and we sell any major names this January it'll be more like 9th-12th and the season will flitter away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:20:31 AM
Not the worst set of results for us today, Villa's win aside.
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5363/captureng.png)

Last year starting to catch up a bit now.

Aye, we beat West Ham & Wigan back-to-back, but then only won another 3 all season, so can see that gap narrowing a fair bit next two matches, then us pulling away again.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:34:03 AM
A goal closer to Liverpool despite the 3-1 defeat. Big winners this week are Blackburn whose goal difference has improved by 7, and gained 3 points. Everton close the gap to 7, fairly big gap between us and the pack after Stoke, but we've got a run of 9 games now where we're defending 17 points.

"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+48..........81 (1st, 80)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+22..........70 (5th, 62)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+25..........69 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+26..........67  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+11.........63  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+11...........61  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+3...........54  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-8............52  (13th, 46)
Aston Villa...........................38............-11..........47  (9th, 48)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............46  (11th, 47)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........45  (8th, 49)
Norwich City..........................38.........-16............45  (19th, 39)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-14..........38  (15th, 43)
Swansea City........................38.........-14............37  (20th, 33)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-17...........37  (14th, 46)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-21............34  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-34...........33  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-35...........32  (16th, 42)



Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Monday 2 January 2012, 04:54:37 PM
Back in the pack. :sad:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 2 January 2012, 04:55:36 PM
One point between 7th and 8th now :sad:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 2 January 2012, 04:55:37 PM
We've got to beat QPR at home. Season defining game imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sicko2ndbest on Monday 2 January 2012, 04:59:04 PM
It's no coincidence Stoke are back in it during the Europa break!

It's us or them really.

Fancy them tbh
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Monday 2 January 2012, 04:59:24 PM
We've got to beat QPR at home. Season defining game imo.

Aye!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:00:50 PM
It's no coincidence Stoke are back in it during the Europa break!

It's us or them really.

Fancy them tbh

Everton too.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:01:25 PM
It's no coincidence Stoke are back in it during the Europa break!

It's us or them really.

Fancy them tbh

They'll go through a bad patch again though. And we'll not have this run forever. They've got Liverpool & Man U away in their next 3 games too.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:02:08 PM
Exactly. Their amazing form isn't going to last forever, just like ours was never going to.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:03:44 PM
6 points between us and 10th now. QPR and Fulham are massive massive games.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Wullie on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:05:16 PM
6 points between us and 10th now. QPR and Fulham are massive massive games.

Be absolutely staggered if we get anything at Fulham, they've looked absolute quality at home of late (that Man Utd game obviously notwithstanding), we're obviously two men down, plus I'm going.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Disco on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:06:50 PM
(http://api.ning.com/files/HjRW*mi70ZArOwqvBoAnCXzZomT59rVEYUOn81iiTHlVAITVPuM-rko41Q0vHdRfhIj1znK27o8g71y3PxJpdCEoNDfYBlwR/404error.jpg)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: johnnypd on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:08:18 PM
Never mind those matches, Man Utd is a massive game. we've seen lesser sides have a go at bigger teams and get a resul, why can't we do the same?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BooBoo on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:09:43 PM
We're due a win over one of the top sides at home. Don't think we've won a CL team at home since we got promoted.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Wullie on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:09:48 PM
Never mind those matches, Man Utd is a massive game. we've seen lesser sides have a go at bigger teams and get a resul, why can't we do the same?

Absolutely. :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:11:03 PM
We're due a win over one of the top sides at home. Don't think we've won a CL team at home since we got promoted.

We got draws against Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal last season, though.

This season, Arsenal has been a draw as well. We're not doing too bad against those sides at SJP.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:12:07 PM
Never mind those matches, Man Utd is a massive game. we've seen lesser sides have a go at bigger teams and get a resul, why can't we do the same?

Absolutely. :thup:

Yeah we can't go into this with any fear no "oh no we will get the backlash" bollocks.. fly at them from the off.
Its winning these kind of games that will get us that buffer back.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Monday 2 January 2012, 05:46:29 PM
6 points between us and 10th now. QPR and Fulham are massive massive games.

Be absolutely staggered if we get anything at Fulham, they've looked absolute quality at home of late (that Man Utd game obviously notwithstanding), we're obviously two men down, plus I'm going.

It's the type of game where we'll go 90 mins without a decent attempt on goal and their CBs will grab a goal or two from headers at corners.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:24:53 PM
Stoke and Villa are our immediate rivals IMO. Norwich and WBA could come into it, depending on how our next couple of games go.
Fulham.
No.

:shifty:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:30:01 PM
I still dont see any team finishing in 7th ahead of us really.

Aye Fulham are normally in and around 7th, so too are Everton and Villa but all three dont look up to it this season. Even with Fulhams new found form.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:35:10 PM
:kinnear:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Astroblack on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:41:11 PM
We have to have a go. I remember Villa going at Chelsea from the first whistle in tge 07/08 season and winning. Mourinho was sacked after that game. We have to do the same. Time to establish ourselves as a threat to the Uefa sides.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:42:30 PM
We have to have a go. I remember Villa going at Chelsea from the first whistle in tge 07/08 season and winning. Mourinho was sacked after that game. We have to do the same. Time to establish ourselves as a threat to the Uefa sides.

Aye...its progress.

Still need a top 6 side to win the cups though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nufc4eva on Monday 2 January 2012, 07:44:49 PM
I still dont see any team finishing in 7th ahead of us really.

Aye Fulham are normally in and around 7th, so too are Everton and Villa but all three dont look up to it this season. Even with Fulhams new found form.



If we don't change the way we have been playing we won't finish higher than 12th
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 2 January 2012, 08:12:33 PM

"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+48..........81 (1st, 80)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+22..........70 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+25..........66  (4th, 68)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+11.........63  (6th, 58)
Newcastle United.................38...........+11...........61  (12th, 46)
Everton...............................38......... ....+3...........54  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-9...........52  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-13............48  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-4...........47  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-12............46  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-16..........44  (9th, 48)
Swansea City........................38.........-9............40  (20th, 33)
Sunderland..........................38...........-13..........39  (10th, 47)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-13..........38  (15th, 43)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-17...........37  (14th, 46)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-35...........32  (16th, 42)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-36...........30  (17th, 40)



Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 12:45:09 AM
It's going to be a hard, close battle for 7th imo. One which I'm confident we'll just about win.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 12:48:01 AM
Don't think Stoke has what it takes to keep their good form going in the long run, but we're going to have to pick ourselves up out of this rut soon because teams like Everton and Fulham do, and they're rising fast.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: leffe186 on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 04:33:06 AM
Don't think Stoke has what it takes to keep their good form going in the long run, but we're going to have to pick ourselves up out of this rut soon because teams like Everton and Fulham do, and they're rising fast.

Fulham reminded me of us under Martin Jol in the second half today. Nice movement, simple football, well-organized. Was wondering when it would click again, because they were all over us at their place yet every other time I'd seen them this season they'd been disappointing.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cubaricho on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 05:33:05 AM
Exactly. Their amazing form isn't going to last forever, just like ours was never going to.

No one's form lasts forever.  I'm just glad we have the points on the board already from a great start.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Skirge on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 07:27:46 PM
How much as 7th place worth to us? League payout for 7th + Europium football, much cash will that bring us?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 10:12:22 PM
7 points between us and 14th place. 7 points between us and 4th place.

An upturn in form really couldn't come soon enough.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dr Venkman on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 10:14:13 PM
7 points between us and 14th place. 7 points between us and 4th place.

An upturn in form really couldn't come soon enough.

yep, any kind of draw tomorrow would be fantastic to get the confidence up again
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BONTEMPI on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 10:18:06 PM
We need a Striker and Centre Back this window if we are to cling onto 7th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Flip on Tuesday 3 January 2012, 10:22:54 PM
We will finish 10th. Improvement. :pow:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:06:29 PM
Hopefully this will be the turning point. Might just knock a bit of stuffing out of Stoke and the like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:08:22 PM
If we can get some good points from the next four games we'll be right back on course. Need to back this up.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:08:53 PM
Teams around us will do well to beat Man Utd. Tonight was such a massive result, really huge.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:12:15 PM
We'll be up to 6th when I update the rolling table too. :megusta:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: johnnypd on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:24:29 PM
think we've got what would've been considered "easier" games from now til the spurs match. chance to entrench ourselves up with the top 6. unfortunately losing Tiote and Ba is going to make this period of winnable fixtures a hassle if we don't compensate for their loss.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sugoinufc on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:27:46 PM
massive win....actually we really needed this in order to keep our 7th place. 6-7 points the next 3 matches and we are looking really good.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:28:48 PM
If we can get some good points from the next four games we'll be right back on course. Need to back this up.

Trouble will be ACN. Losing Tiote and Ba is huge to the team.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 10:29:58 PM
The bottom three have to find a helluva lot of points that they didn't get last year in the second-half of the season.


"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+45..........79 (1st, 80)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+23..........72 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+25..........66  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+11.........63  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........53  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-9...........52  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-13............48  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-4...........47  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............45  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-16..........44  (9th, 48)
Sunderland..........................38...........-10..........41  (10th, 47)
Swansea City........................38.........-9............40  (20th, 33)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-16...........39  (14th, 46)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-13..........38  (15th, 43)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-36...........30  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-38...........30  (16th, 42)





[/quote]
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:04:26 PM
Just seen Everton lost at home too, unbelievable night of results for us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:22:29 PM
4 points away from 4th and 4 points ahead of 8th. Nice.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:24:53 PM
Tonight will be for nothing if we don't beat QPR at home. There's an opportunity to pick up some points here and it's imperative that we don't suffer from the loss of Ba.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:26:00 PM
Tonight will be for nothing if we don't beat QPR at home. There's an opportunity to pick up some points here and it's imperative that we don't suffer from the loss of Ba.

Well not really because it'll still be 33 points from 21 games which is European form.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:27:31 PM
Tonight will be for nothing if we don't beat QPR at home. There's an opportunity to pick up some points here and it's imperative that we don't suffer from the loss of Ba.

Well not really because it'll still be 33 points from 21 games which is European form.

Winning tonight gives us an unexpected extra two points (i'd fancy us for a draw against this Manu team). I'd consider it a bonus.

If we don't beat QPR, it just evens out again.

I know it's daft logic but you see what i'm getting at. We'll have lost that little 'bonus'.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 4 January 2012, 11:29:00 PM
Tonight will be for nothing if we don't beat QPR at home. There's an opportunity to pick up some points here and it's imperative that we don't suffer from the loss of Ba.

Well not really because it'll still be 33 points from 21 games which is European form.

Winning tonight gives us an unexpected extra two points (i'd fancy us for a draw against this Manu team). I'd consider it a bonus.

If we don't beat QPR, it just evens out again.

I know it's daft logic but you see what i'm getting at. We'll have lost that little 'bonus'.

Stoke have Liverpool next too...a draw there and if we beat QPR...:fwap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:15:54 AM
Significantly, 8 points clear again of what I'd call "the pack".
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Frazzle on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:17:17 AM
Significantly, 8 points clear again of what I'd call "the pack".

I'm trying to work out what that table means after a few drinks and its not making much sense, but this ^^^ sounds good.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:20:55 AM
Not the worst set of results for us today, Villa's win aside.
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5363/captureng.png)

Last year starting to catch up a bit now.

Aye, we beat West Ham & Wigan back-to-back, but then only won another 3 all season, so can see that gap narrowing a fair bit next two matches, then us pulling away again.

Update this s***, Dave! (please). I need my fix of graphs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:29:48 AM
:aww:

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7859/capturelrh.png)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:31:20 AM
:sweetjesus:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:33:53 AM
4 (5) point cushion from 8th, 8 (9) point cushion from 9th - the figures in brackets denoting that we also have a massive GD advantage on the sides in those positions too. :thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:36:41 AM
5 (6) point cushion from 8th, 9 (10) point cushion from 9th - the figures in brackets denoting that we also have a massive GD advantage on the sides in those positions too. :thup:

Eh? 4 (5) and 8 (9), surely?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Heron on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:37:24 AM
Love the fact Dave spent so long on that table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:38:19 AM
5 (6) point cushion from 8th, 9 (10) point cushion from 9th - the figures in brackets denoting that we also have a massive GD advantage on the sides in those positions too. :thup:

Eh? 4 (5) and 8 (9), surely?

Aye, sorry. I said what you said out loud and then seemingly added a point onto each when I typed it. Post edited.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:40:00 AM
The three sides directly below us are all away from home next week too; two of them to Chelsea and Liverpool. A win at home against QPR will see us looking in great shape.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:42:38 AM
We are only 13 points off last seasons total.

We are 1 point off the total from the relegation season.

I still think we have another 20 points in us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:43:27 AM
Love the fact Dave spent so long on that table.
I think he just updates a column in excel :lol: 
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:36:52 PM
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)

Thanks for the regular updates Nut and Pip.

Putting the above the other way, the same results from last season would have us on 33-17= 16 points from 20 games.
So that means with this season's fixture order and last season's results, we'd be in the bottom three!?!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:54:01 PM
Eh?

It's showing that we're on course to beat last season's total points tally (46) by 17 (63pts), if you substitute the unplayed fixtures from this season with last season's corresponding results. i.e. Liverpool at home, 3-1 win.

If we're to get 63 pts, we'd need to at least match the same results from last season for the remaining games.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Thursday 5 January 2012, 12:59:22 PM
55 points should be enough to finish seventh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: The_Optimistic on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:05:08 PM
10/11 | 7th | 54pts
09/10 | 7th | 63pts
08/09 | 7th | 53pts
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Nobody on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:06:31 PM
One point away from that horrible relegation season. :aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:06:57 PM
10/11 | 7th | 54pts
09/10 | 7th | 63pts
08/09 | 7th | 53pts
Defiantly possible to get that amount.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ashley17 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:07:18 PM
Be typical after all this if we finish 7th but Cardiff win the Carling Cup.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:08:41 PM
I remember when 60 points got Liverpool 4th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:21:52 PM
(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/830/7th.png)

I was bored.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: S.S.R. on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:24:33 PM
I've got a feeling it'll be in the low 60s this year, given the competition.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:25:08 PM
I've got a feeling it'll be in the low 60s this year, given the competition.

From who? Stoke?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thorin on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:27:16 PM
Does it really matter? We're gonna win the remaining matches, who cares about points. Important thing is to win win win :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:44:09 PM
Eh?

It's showing that we're on course to beat last season's total points tally (46) by 17 (63pts), if you substitute the unplayed fixtures from this season with last season's corresponding results. i.e. Liverpool at home, 3-1 win.

If we're to get 63 pts, we'd need to at least match the same results from last season for the remaining games.

Nut's table is last year's overwritten with this season's results. Any improvement (i.e., the seventeen points) is from our results so far this season.
If we are seventeen points up, it can only mean we must have got 33-17= 16 points from those games last season. We must have got 30 of our 46 points last year in the games corresponding to the eighteen fixtures we have left, many of them games we won like Mackems home, Liverpool home, and Arsenal away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:46:00 PM
No, it means if you achieve the same results from now on as you did last season, you'll finish on 63 points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Thursday 5 January 2012, 01:59:51 PM
Yes, that's right. 63 points. A 17 point improvement on last season's 46. Those 17 points have been "earned" in our first 20 games this season.
i.e. if you arrange last season's results into this season's fixture order, after twenty games in that fixture order we'd have 17 points less than we do in the 2011-12 table from this season's results.

Basically our fixture list for this season is many games we did poorly in last season followed by the games we got results in.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Jayson on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:24:44 PM
Just worked it out. Stotties right yeah.

Out of 20 matches now, we've bettered last years results in 11 of them (Sland, Fulham, Villa, Blackburn, Wolves, Wigan, Stoke, Everton, Man U x2, Bolton)
Had the same result in 5 (Arsenal, Qpr(blackpool), Tottenham, City, Liverpool)
& had worse results in 4. (Chelsea, Swansea(Wham), Norwich(Birmingham), Westbrom)

So if we'd had this years fixtures last season, we'd have 16 pts at this stage & 2 wins from 20 games.

So yeah, we've improved a bit eh  :aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:49:20 PM
(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/830/7th.png)

I was bored.

If my mental arithmetic is right thats an average of about 54.5 and I would think that would be about spot on this season, 55-56 should do the trick.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:51:37 PM
You could have saved a few seconds by looking at the final column. :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:52:51 PM
I've got a feeling it'll be in the low 60s this year, given the competition.

From who? Stoke?

Exactly!

What a stupid comment.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:54:03 PM
You could have saved a few seconds by looking at the final column. :lol:

I was like that in school too. Doh...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:56:07 PM
Just to get this straight...

For us to qualify for the Europa league in 7th spot we NEED a top 6 team to win the League Cup?

What if for arguments sake Man City win against Fulham in the final....Surely Fulham get the Europa spot?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Thursday 5 January 2012, 02:57:31 PM
Runners Up don't get anything.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:02:39 PM
Runners Up don't get anything.

I thought they did? Ah well...just a top 6 winner then.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:04:25 PM
Runners Up don't get anything.

I thought they did? Ah well...just a top 6 winner then.
They do but the winner place in the Europa League goes down a place in the league.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:04:57 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.

Said Fulham for arguments sake...

So...

1-4 = CL
5-6 = EL
7th = EL *If a top 6 side win the LC?

FA Cup = EL

So potentially 8 clubs playing in europe from the PL then?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AliGupter on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:08:29 PM
Runners Up don't get anything.

I thought they did? Ah well...just a top 6 winner then.

They do in the FA Cup.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mole_Toonfan on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:08:46 PM
If we do qualify for Europa League we will need some additions some first team, some squad........

The squad is nowhere near big enough to deal with Europa League duties atm in my view.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:09:02 PM
So assuming we'd need 60 points (more than good enough nearly every year) to secure 7th, we need 27 points from 18 games, that's 27 from 54. Seems pretty attainable; we have 9 home games left and have already played Arsenal, Chelsea and Man United.

FWIW 60 points was nearly always enough to get 6th in those ten years, occassionally 5th and even 4th a couple of times - albeit before Spurs and City were any good.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:15:56 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.

Said Fulham for arguments sake...

So...

1-4 = CL
5-6 = EL
7th = EL *If a top 6 side win the LC?

FA Cup = EL

So potentially 8 clubs playing in europe from the PL then?

Only 5th is guaranteed Europa League. 6th is only if both FA Cup finalists finish in the top five, 7th is only if the Carling Cup winner finishes top five or is also an FA Cup finalist and their opponent is top five. There's then normally a place for the fair play league winner.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:17:12 PM
If we do qualify for Europa League we will need some additions some first team, some squad........

The squad is nowhere near big enough to deal with Europa League duties atm in my view.

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:20:36 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.

Said Fulham for arguments sake...

So...

1-4 = CL
5-6 = EL
7th = EL *If a top 6 side win the LC?

FA Cup = EL

So potentially 8 clubs playing in europe from the PL then?

Only 5th is guaranteed Europa League. 6th is only if both FA Cup finalists finish in the top five, 7th is only if the Carling Cup winner finishes top five or is also an FA Cup finalist and their opponent is top five. There's then normally a place for the fair play league winner.

Ok...what if Liverpool win the LC and finish 6th then?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:20:52 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.

Said Fulham for arguments sake...

So...

1-4 = CL
5-6 = EL
7th = EL *If a top 6 side win the LC?

FA Cup = EL

So potentially 8 clubs playing in europe from the PL then?

Only 5th is guaranteed Europa League. 6th is only if both FA Cup finalists finish in the top five, 7th is only if the Carling Cup winner finishes top five or is also an FA Cup finalist and their opponent is top five. There's then normally a place for the fair play league winner.

This is dependent on how high the Prem finishes as a whole on disciplinary across Europe.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: broonalegeordie on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:23:32 PM
Are you talking about the same cup here? Fulham are out of the Carling already...

Carling Cup runners up don't get anything.
FA Cup runners up get EUROPA.

Unless s*** has changed.

Then f*** knows what happens if an English team wins the Europa.

Said Fulham for arguments sake...

So...

1-4 = CL
5-6 = EL
7th = EL *If a top 6 side win the LC?

FA Cup = EL

So potentially 8 clubs playing in europe from the PL then?

Only 5th is guaranteed Europa League. 6th is only if both FA Cup finalists finish in the top five, 7th is only if the Carling Cup winner finishes top five or is also an FA Cup finalist and their opponent is top five. There's then normally a place for the fair play league winner.

Ok...what if Liverpool win the LC and finish 6th then?

then 7th becomes a EL qualifying spot

edit - provided both FA Cup finalists finish 1-5...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:26:40 PM
1st - Champions League group stage
2nd - Champions League group stage
3rd - Champions League group stage
4th - Champions League qualifying stage
5th - Europa League
6th - Europa League (only if both FA Cup finalists finish 1st-5th)
7th - Europa League (only if Carling Cup winner finishes 1st-5th and first additional spot above is taken)
Other - Europa League (Fair Play League winner if England qualifies)

I think that's right. Basically if we want to be in Europe next year, we need to finish 7th at least and hope the top Premier League clubs contest the cup finals (or win the FA Cup ourselves :bluestar:).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:26:53 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:28:56 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.

7th is probable, 6th is nailed on. I wouldn't want to rely on 7th.

As far as how much we want the EL... I want it for the recognition as one of the better teams in the country, and to attract a higher standard of player. But I don't want the actual games. Saying that, I'd frown upon us doing a Tottenham and playing our super reserves.

Oh, and of course Mike Ashley will want us in Europe. He wants to build our brand and make money, EL will help.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:30:08 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.

7th is probable, 6th is nailed on. I wouldn't want to rely on 7th.

6th isn't nailed on, there's a Championship club guaranteed in the Carling Cup final...
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:30:40 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.

7th is probable, 6th is nailed on. I wouldn't want to rely on 7th.

6th isn't nailed on, there's a Championship club guaranteed in the Carling Cup final...

It's nailed on...

from a betting man's perspective...

some s*** like that. 99% chance of it being EL. Happier?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: STM on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:32:11 PM
European football *drool*.

Can't wait to play FC Whothefuck from eastern europe on a thursday night, great stuff.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:32:24 PM
Pretty sure most of us would have thought it nailed on Man United would get past Crystal Palace at Old Trafford as well. :scared:

Nice edit bro. :pow:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:33:49 PM
Pretty sure most of us would have thought it nailed on Man United would get past Crystal Palace at Old Trafford as well. :scared:

Nice edit bro. :pow:

I edit everything.

Also, it's not just the odds of the Carling Cup Final, which is blatantly going to be won by Man City or Liverpool, it's the odds of the FA Cup final not being two top 6 teams. Totes nailed on.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:34:13 PM
Same here. :okay:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:35:26 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.

7th is probable, 6th is nailed on. I wouldn't want to rely on 7th.

As far as how much we want the EL... I want it for the recognition as one of the better teams in the country, and to attract a higher standard of player. But I don't want the actual games. Saying that, I'd frown upon us doing a Tottenham and playing our super reserves.

Oh, and of course Mike Ashley will want us in Europe. He wants to build our brand and make money, EL will help.

I'd love us to get into the EL...Like you say it is recognition as a top side, progress, and of course it would bring back the great midweek night games which have provided me some of my greatest toon memories. The atmosphere on nights like that is quality.

The thing is the EL doesnt dangle a massive carrot like the CL. FMA would have to invest quite substantially (20mil+) for a competition that would only bring 10mil max if we won it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:37:29 PM
We'd need five or six new players if we qualified for the Europa League, and that's if we don't sell anyone.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 03:39:24 PM
Understood. Cheers lads.

So we have pretty good odds that 7th WILL get us into europe then. Anyone any good at workin odds out?

It would serve us well to have a good run in the FA Cup as well to further aid our chances.

Thing is...does AP REALLY want us to get into europe? I doubt FMA does.

7th is probable, 6th is nailed on. I wouldn't want to rely on 7th.

As far as how much we want the EL... I want it for the recognition as one of the better teams in the country, and to attract a higher standard of player. But I don't want the actual games. Saying that, I'd frown upon us doing a Tottenham and playing our super reserves.

Oh, and of course Mike Ashley will want us in Europe. He wants to build our brand and make money, EL will help.

I'd love us to get into the EL...Like you say it is recognition as a top side, progress, and of course it would bring back the great midweek night games which have provided me some of my greatest toon memories. The atmosphere on nights like that is quality.

The thing is the EL doesnt dangle a massive carrot like the CL. FMA would have to invest quite substantially (20mil+) for a competition that would only bring 10mil max if we won it.

EL wouldn't be the ultimate goal, yeah, but it'd be a stepping stone.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ykmkmdd on Thursday 5 January 2012, 04:11:34 PM
We'd need five or six new players if we qualified for the Europa League, and that's if we don't sell anyone.

Either that or give the fringe players a lot more pitch time - a side including the likes of Sammy, Ferguson, Vuckic, Abeid, Gosling, Guthrie, Best etc would probably do OK in the early stages of the Europa.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 04:17:13 PM
(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/830/7th.png)

I was bored.

55 points is certainly achievable like. Like I've said a few times, it'll be a long, hard fought battle for 7th imo and one we'll just about win.

Also, like some said last night, beating QPR is a must really.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 04:17:38 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: David28 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 04:33:48 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 5 January 2012, 05:29:38 PM
We could be inconsistent as f*** and win 6, draw 6 and lose 6 and go to 57 points. Even just being slightly above average should see 60 points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 05:34:16 PM
We could be inconsistent as f*** and win 6, draw 6 and lose 6 and go to 57 points. Even just being slightly above average should see 60 points.

This.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 05:47:45 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

That's going to be the case for 95% of clubs, no matter what level they play at - there's always a bigger club wanting to take your best players off you.

From a purely professional point of view, if Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan, etc., come knocking on your door and offer you the chance to become part of their history, you're going to want to take that opportunity unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your professional ambitions can be realised

Financially, the Champions League clubs are going to be in a much stronger position in terms of wages, so as a footballer with a relatively short career, you want to make the most out of your abilities unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your financial ambitions can be realised

We can't spend our way into the Champions League Club unless we do it organically - something that we actually have evidence that Ashley has achieved during his tenure. Even if he was to pay back his £100m~ loan rather than immediately invest it into new players/wages, it would still leave the club in a much stronger position than when he took over.

Even the most die-hard Ashley hater must feel that the worst of the "Cockney Mafia" is over now - the club is only in it's second season in the Premiership and the foundations appear to be there for genuine progress over several years.

(FWIW, North American sports is something we could learn a lot from, they don't do cash transfers but most teams have a position "General Manager" who is responsible for ensuring the right kind of players are on the roster for the "Head Coach"[Manager] to work with on the training ground and on match day. They spend hours upon hours studying film and visiting with potential signings to ensure the best players for their team are brought in via trade, draft or free agency.)

(On this note, we're supposed to be a society that protects children but we're guilty of letting that poor lad suffer who, not only is a Ginger, has to be surrounded by 20,000 filthy unwashed in order to earn a wage.)


These are all things that have taken place off the pitch, while we (the fans) are looking for instant results on the pitch, it's the longer-term improvements which are starting to take effect.

As a fan of the club, what is better: splashing £10m on a striker + £8m in transfers over 4 years, or investing £15m over those 4 years into youth development that produces 4-5 first team players over a 5 year period? In the short term, we want the £10m striker - but he's by far the riskier gamble, which the club has proven over the past 18months, we don't need to take in order to get quality players into the club. The myth that money=ambition is perpetuated by the media and agents in order to keep the money flowing out of football, unless you're spending significantly more than the competition, the real value in football comes from having the better manager and coaching staff.

If Ashley wants to make a profit from the club (:lol:) then he needs to keep it in the Premiership.
If Ashley is using the club as a vehicle to advertise Sports Direct, then he wants greater exposure - this comes from having 'name' players. He's not likely to pay for name players, so that suggests we'd try and develop our own 'name' players (i.e. Krul). To hang onto these players, we're going to need to meet the criteria above.

I don't know where you've got this "I don't think Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also being able to fight for a good position in the league" - if you look at the facts of the ownership since relegation, the squad has been trimmed of the deadweight (Alan Smith excepted) and replaced with higher-value players. Yes, they have a resale value but WHY WOULDN'T you want your squad to be outperforming their intial acquisition value?

The worst case scenario is that one summer/January, we take the extreme step of cashing in on all of our most valuable players at once (4 or 5 players) which rips the heart out of the team. I'm struggling to think of any evidence that points to this (has any team NOT in dire financial straits done this in European football?) - maybe Ferguson in the summer of '95? Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince were all sold; however, Fergie had been given the time to sort the youth set up out and we know how that turned out...

Presuming lightning doesn't strike twice and it would set the club back on a footballing level - what does Ashley gain from it? A lower profile club who struggle to stay in the top division? Wouldn't be a financially/exposure-driven sound idea.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:21:13 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

That's going to be the case for 95% of clubs, no matter what level they play at - there's always a bigger club wanting to take your best players off you.

From a purely professional point of view, if Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan, etc., come knocking on your door and offer you the chance to become part of their history, you're going to want to take that opportunity unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your professional ambitions can be realised

Financially, the Champions League clubs are going to be in a much stronger position in terms of wages, so as a footballer with a relatively short career, you want to make the most out of your abilities unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your financial ambitions can be realised

We can't spend our way into the Champions League Club unless we do it organically - something that we actually have evidence that Ashley has achieved during his tenure. Even if he was to pay back his £100m~ loan rather than immediately invest it into new players/wages, it would still leave the club in a much stronger position than when he took over.

Even the most die-hard Ashley hater must feel that the worst of the "Cockney Mafia" is over now - the club is only in it's second season in the Premiership and the foundations appear to be there for genuine progress over several years.

  • Attention to detail in the club scouting department/overhaul of the transfer process by the club - we've been guilty of doing the 'football thing' where the club backs the manager to spend millions of pounds on players that he is going mostly on reputation by. If he's doing the best he can to coach and manage the players he's already got, how on earth can he have been expected to make the most out of the clubs money in the transfer market? Answer: he relies on agents that he 'trusts' to get him players that fill a gap and more money pours out of the club. We appear to have a good scouting and transfer set-up and are getting the maximum value out of the deals we do
(FWIW, North American sports is something we could learn a lot from, they don't do cash transfers but most teams have a position "General Manager" who is responsible for ensuring the right kind of players are on the roster for the "Head Coach"[Manager] to work with on the training ground and on match day. They spend hours upon hours studying film and visiting with potential signings to ensure the best players for their team are brought in via trade, draft or free agency.)

  • Investment in the training facilities has been long overdue, finally addressed by the current owner.
  • Investment in the youth team has been long overdue, we've had a massive talent drain from the NE to the likes of Burra and Sun'lun, players like Colback should never been traipsing across the Tyne to go and play for the darkside.
(On this note, we're supposed to be a society that protects children but we're guilty of letting that poor lad suffer who, not only is a Ginger, has to be surrounded by 20,000 filthy unwashed in order to earn a wage.)

  • The infrastructure of the club has had such a massive upturn since Ashley took over - it was one of the things Mort first commented on when he became 'Chairman', we didn't have any real infrastructure and for a outwardly modern club (fantastic stadium, international players) we were very much in the dark ages when it came to the running of the club.

These are all things that have taken place off the pitch, while we (the fans) are looking for instant results on the pitch, it's the longer-term improvements which are starting to take effect.

As a fan of the club, what is better: splashing £10m on a striker + £8m in transfers over 4 years, or investing £15m over those 4 years into youth development that produces 4-5 first team players over a 5 year period? In the short term, we want the £10m striker - but he's by far the riskier gamble, which the club has proven over the past 18months, we don't need to take in order to get quality players into the club. The myth that money=ambition is perpetuated by the media and agents in order to keep the money flowing out of football, unless you're spending significantly more than the competition, the real value in football comes from having the better manager and coaching staff.

If Ashley wants to make a profit from the club (:lol:) then he needs to keep it in the Premiership.
If Ashley is using the club as a vehicle to advertise Sports Direct, then he wants greater exposure - this comes from having 'name' players. He's not likely to pay for name players, so that suggests we'd try and develop our own 'name' players (i.e. Krul). To hang onto these players, we're going to need to meet the criteria above.

I don't know where you've got this "I don't think Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also being able to fight for a good position in the league" - if you look at the facts of the ownership since relegation, the squad has been trimmed of the deadweight (Alan Smith excepted) and replaced with higher-value players. Yes, they have a resale value but WHY WOULDN'T you want your squad to be outperforming their intial acquisition value?

The worst case scenario is that one summer/January, we take the extreme step of cashing in on all of our most valuable players at once (4 or 5 players) which rips the heart out of the team. I'm struggling to think of any evidence that points to this (has any team NOT in dire financial straits done this in European football?) - maybe Ferguson in the summer of '95? Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince were all sold; however, Fergie had been given the time to sort the youth set up out and we know how that turned out...

Presuming lightning doesn't strike twice and it would set the club back on a footballing level - what does Ashley gain from it? A lower profile club who struggle to stay in the top division? Wouldn't be a financially/exposure-driven sound idea.

One of the best posts i have read!

Fuckin bang on fella.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:24:54 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

That's going to be the case for 95% of clubs, no matter what level they play at - there's always a bigger club wanting to take your best players off you.

From a purely professional point of view, if Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan, etc., come knocking on your door and offer you the chance to become part of their history, you're going to want to take that opportunity unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your professional ambitions can be realised

Financially, the Champions League clubs are going to be in a much stronger position in terms of wages, so as a footballer with a relatively short career, you want to make the most out of your abilities unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your financial ambitions can be realised

We can't spend our way into the Champions League Club unless we do it organically - something that we actually have evidence that Ashley has achieved during his tenure. Even if he was to pay back his £100m~ loan rather than immediately invest it into new players/wages, it would still leave the club in a much stronger position than when he took over.

Even the most die-hard Ashley hater must feel that the worst of the "Cockney Mafia" is over now - the club is only in it's second season in the Premiership and the foundations appear to be there for genuine progress over several years.

  • Attention to detail in the club scouting department/overhaul of the transfer process by the club - we've been guilty of doing the 'football thing' where the club backs the manager to spend millions of pounds on players that he is going mostly on reputation by. If he's doing the best he can to coach and manage the players he's already got, how on earth can he have been expected to make the most out of the clubs money in the transfer market? Answer: he relies on agents that he 'trusts' to get him players that fill a gap and more money pours out of the club. We appear to have a good scouting and transfer set-up and are getting the maximum value out of the deals we do
(FWIW, North American sports is something we could learn a lot from, they don't do cash transfers but most teams have a position "General Manager" who is responsible for ensuring the right kind of players are on the roster for the "Head Coach"[Manager] to work with on the training ground and on match day. They spend hours upon hours studying film and visiting with potential signings to ensure the best players for their team are brought in via trade, draft or free agency.)

  • Investment in the training facilities has been long overdue, finally addressed by the current owner.
  • Investment in the youth team has been long overdue, we've had a massive talent drain from the NE to the likes of Burra and Sun'lun, players like Colback should never been traipsing across the Tyne to go and play for the darkside.
(On this note, we're supposed to be a society that protects children but we're guilty of letting that poor lad suffer who, not only is a Ginger, has to be surrounded by 20,000 filthy unwashed in order to earn a wage.)

  • The infrastructure of the club has had such a massive upturn since Ashley took over - it was one of the things Mort first commented on when he became 'Chairman', we didn't have any real infrastructure and for a outwardly modern club (fantastic stadium, international players) we were very much in the dark ages when it came to the running of the club.

These are all things that have taken place off the pitch, while we (the fans) are looking for instant results on the pitch, it's the longer-term improvements which are starting to take effect.

As a fan of the club, what is better: splashing £10m on a striker + £8m in transfers over 4 years, or investing £15m over those 4 years into youth development that produces 4-5 first team players over a 5 year period? In the short term, we want the £10m striker - but he's by far the riskier gamble, which the club has proven over the past 18months, we don't need to take in order to get quality players into the club. The myth that money=ambition is perpetuated by the media and agents in order to keep the money flowing out of football, unless you're spending significantly more than the competition, the real value in football comes from having the better manager and coaching staff.

If Ashley wants to make a profit from the club (:lol:) then he needs to keep it in the Premiership.
If Ashley is using the club as a vehicle to advertise Sports Direct, then he wants greater exposure - this comes from having 'name' players. He's not likely to pay for name players, so that suggests we'd try and develop our own 'name' players (i.e. Krul). To hang onto these players, we're going to need to meet the criteria above.

I don't know where you've got this "I don't think Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also being able to fight for a good position in the league" - if you look at the facts of the ownership since relegation, the squad has been trimmed of the deadweight (Alan Smith excepted) and replaced with higher-value players. Yes, they have a resale value but WHY WOULDN'T you want your squad to be outperforming their intial acquisition value?

The worst case scenario is that one summer/January, we take the extreme step of cashing in on all of our most valuable players at once (4 or 5 players) which rips the heart out of the team. I'm struggling to think of any evidence that points to this (has any team NOT in dire financial straits done this in European football?) - maybe Ferguson in the summer of '95? Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince were all sold; however, Fergie had been given the time to sort the youth set up out and we know how that turned out...

Presuming lightning doesn't strike twice and it would set the club back on a footballing level - what does Ashley gain from it? A lower profile club who struggle to stay in the top division? Wouldn't be a financially/exposure-driven sound idea.

:thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: kirkwdavis2001 on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:31:05 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.


...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

That's going to be the case for 95% of clubs, no matter what level they play at - there's always a bigger club wanting to take your best players off you.

From a purely professional point of view, if Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan, etc., come knocking on your door and offer you the chance to become part of their history, you're going to want to take that opportunity unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your professional ambitions can be realised

Financially, the Champions League clubs are going to be in a much stronger position in terms of wages, so as a footballer with a relatively short career, you want to make the most out of your abilities unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your financial ambitions can be realised

We can't spend our way into the Champions League Club unless we do it organically - something that we actually have evidence that Ashley has achieved during his tenure. Even if he was to pay back his £100m~ loan rather than immediately invest it into new players/wages, it would still leave the club in a much stronger position than when he took over.

Even the most die-hard Ashley hater must feel that the worst of the "Cockney Mafia" is over now - the club is only in it's second season in the Premiership and the foundations appear to be there for genuine progress over several years.

  • Attention to detail in the club scouting department/overhaul of the transfer process by the club - we've been guilty of doing the 'football thing' where the club backs the manager to spend millions of pounds on players that he is going mostly on reputation by. If he's doing the best he can to coach and manage the players he's already got, how on earth can he have been expected to make the most out of the clubs money in the transfer market? Answer: he relies on agents that he 'trusts' to get him players that fill a gap and more money pours out of the club. We appear to have a good scouting and transfer set-up and are getting the maximum value out of the deals we do
(FWIW, North American sports is something we could learn a lot from, they don't do cash transfers but most teams have a position "General Manager" who is responsible for ensuring the right kind of players are on the roster for the "Head Coach"[Manager] to work with on the training ground and on match day. They spend hours upon hours studying film and visiting with potential signings to ensure the best players for their team are brought in via trade, draft or free agency.)

  • Investment in the training facilities has been long overdue, finally addressed by the current owner.
  • Investment in the youth team has been long overdue, we've had a massive talent drain from the NE to the likes of Burra and Sun'lun, players like Colback should never been traipsing across the Tyne to go and play for the darkside.
(On this note, we're supposed to be a society that protects children but we're guilty of letting that poor lad suffer who, not only is a Ginger, has to be surrounded by 20,000 filthy unwashed in order to earn a wage.)

  • The infrastructure of the club has had such a massive upturn since Ashley took over - it was one of the things Mort first commented on when he became 'Chairman', we didn't have any real infrastructure and for a outwardly modern club (fantastic stadium, international players) we were very much in the dark ages when it came to the running of the club.

These are all things that have taken place off the pitch, while we (the fans) are looking for instant results on the pitch, it's the longer-term improvements which are starting to take effect.

As a fan of the club, what is better: splashing £10m on a striker + £8m in transfers over 4 years, or investing £15m over those 4 years into youth development that produces 4-5 first team players over a 5 year period? In the short term, we want the £10m striker - but he's by far the riskier gamble, which the club has proven over the past 18months, we don't need to take in order to get quality players into the club. The myth that money=ambition is perpetuated by the media and agents in order to keep the money flowing out of football, unless you're spending significantly more than the competition, the real value in football comes from having the better manager and coaching staff.

If Ashley wants to make a profit from the club (:lol:) then he needs to keep it in the Premiership.
If Ashley is using the club as a vehicle to advertise Sports Direct, then he wants greater exposure - this comes from having 'name' players. He's not likely to pay for name players, so that suggests we'd try and develop our own 'name' players (i.e. Krul). To hang onto these players, we're going to need to meet the criteria above.

I don't know where you've got this "I don't think Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also being able to fight for a good position in the league" - if you look at the facts of the ownership since relegation, the squad has been trimmed of the deadweight (Alan Smith excepted) and replaced with higher-value players. Yes, they have a resale value but WHY WOULDN'T you want your squad to be outperforming their intial acquisition value?

The worst case scenario is that one summer/January, we take the extreme step of cashing in on all of our most valuable players at once (4 or 5 players) which rips the heart out of the team. I'm struggling to think of any evidence that points to this (has any team NOT in dire financial straits done this in European football?) - maybe Ferguson in the summer of '95? Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince were all sold; however, Fergie had been given the time to sort the youth set up out and we know how that turned out...

Presuming lightning doesn't strike twice and it would set the club back on a footballing level - what does Ashley gain from it? A lower profile club who struggle to stay in the top division? Wouldn't be a financially/exposure-driven sound idea.

Great post!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:43:32 PM
We'd need five or six new players if we qualified for the Europa League, and that's if we don't sell anyone.

I agree, we'd certainly need to fill out the squad, or a European campaign would be a detriment to our domestic progress. We've seen that happen to other teams.

However, you could argue that - by being in Europe - we'd have greater means with which to do business. I think we need to get our name back out there on the continent. The club know this too; by all accounts we've marketed ourselves well in France, having dipped into their transfer networks. Regardless of the unfortunate outcome of the Maiga deal, we wouldn't have been anywhere near him had it not been for our work over there.

Playing in Europe again - whether it's against the likes of PSV or Marseille, or Hapoel Bnei Sakhnin - will only aid us.

Plus i love that competition anyway (pity about the daft group stage, mind). Even when we were in the ratters under Souness, i felt we had a shot at winning a tournament. I think the whole club appreciated that little buzz.

However, as you say, we'd need to prepare correctly for it. There's no reason why we couldn't do well in the UEFA Cup and still do well in the league.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:44:31 PM
End of the day, as I've said time and time again, it's the complete disregard for the fans with their lies and lack of caring about the image of the club, rather than how thing are doing much better now in all other aspects - which I wholly support. You can never have a perfect system at Newcastle or it wouldn't be Newcastle, renaming the stadium and throwing out empty promises are contemptuous. Is the club improving as a business, yes. Is this down to Ashley, yes. Is the club improving as a team, yes. Is this down to Ashley, no.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 06:58:58 PM
Is the club improving as a team, yes. Is this down to Ashley, no.

Who is it down to?

If you say Pardew - that's an Ashley appointment.
If you say Carr and the new transfer system - that's a sea change under Ashley's appointment and goes fully against the emotive complaints against Ashley's running of the club (i.e. doing things on the cheap, etc.)

There's still some things that they've made mistakes, or faux pas' with, but as I've said before - these are largely the sentimental things that fans cling onto, or at least those fans who insist on having something to grumble about. I was of the opinion that these were 'hardened anti-Ashley' NUFC fans but, by and by, it's clear that some people will always want to complain* - the seats are too high up, the players are too tall, the transfers aren't 'Geordie enough', we haven't spent enough money, etc.

The club can't possibly hope to please all of the fanbase, so it's best off keepin' on, keepin' on (to misquote a well-known fanzine) and letting people take what they want out of the supporter experience.

You never know, we might win a trophy somewhere along the way.

*EDIT: As if to underline what I'm talking about, some people are asking about refund because their shirt isn't showing the mid-season sponsorship change, brought around by the Government selling off the bank that we've had a long-standing relationship with. Somehow, this is no doubt the club's fault.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:10:51 PM
Is the club improving as a team, yes. Is this down to Ashley, no.

Who is it down to?

If you say Pardew - that's an Ashley appointment.
If you say Carr and the new transfer system - that's a sea change under Ashley's appointment and goes fully against the emotive complaints against Ashley's running of the club (i.e. doing things on the cheap, etc.)

There's still some things that they've made mistakes, or faux pas' with, but as I've said before - these are largely the sentimental things that fans cling onto, or at least those fans who insist on having something to grumble about. I was of the opinion that these were 'hardened anti-Ashley' NUFC fans but, by and by, it's clear that some people will always want to complain* - the seats are too high up, the players are too tall, the transfers aren't 'Geordie enough', we haven't spent enough money, etc.

The club can't possibly hope to please all of the fanbase, so it's best off keepin' on, keepin' on (to misquote a well-known fanzine) and letting people take what they want out of the supporter experience.

You never know, we might win a trophy somewhere along the way.

*EDIT: As if to underline what I'm talking about, some people are asking about refund because their shirt isn't showing the mid-season sponsorship change, brought around by the Government selling off the bank that we've had a long-standing relationship with. Somehow, this is no doubt the club's fault.

Sorry, but you're very naive.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:17:54 PM
Who is that?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:17:55 PM
s*** response is what it was.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:23:16 PM
I think this forum needs to be compartmentalized, Semtex.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:32:18 PM
HawK - without bringing naivety, or lack thereof, into it:

Is the club improving as a team, yes. Is this down to Ashley, no.

Who is it down to?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: optimistic nit on Thursday 5 January 2012, 09:33:15 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

and with another chairman it would be different? you say you don't want to do a city, well if you dont then how do you expect a club in our position owned by ANYONE to avoid selling its best players if the right offer comes in? Everton have had to do it, as have Villa and they have been better than us in recent seasons. we just have to accept that until we can build a team that is able to challenge the top teams (which should be our long term ambition) then they will be able to come in and steal our players, no matter what chairman we have, that is going to happen.

Honestly I can't question one sale the current board have made. Enrique wasn't going to stay, they didn't control that, Carroll's offer was insane and without Nolan and Barton our midfield looks better (we'd be a better team with Barton, but his off the field antics really did get a bit embarrassing).

A sale now could be catastrophic for the club, why go through another 6 months to a year of a transition as  a new regime takes over when you don't even want a regime that will pump money into the club? Whatever you think about the clubs current spending policy (and i think they should be investing more) look at the success of the transfers we have made. compare the value for money we have got off the likes of Ba, Cabaye and Tiote. Ben Arfa and Santon are two others that i think will eventually show their value for money as well and even if they don't show their potential i doubt we'll have to sell for less than we bought for. If we want a team that will challenge the top 6, then you need to do exactly what we are doing. scour the market for the best value players that can compete in this league so that you can improve your team AND make a profit. If we can build on our transfer success over the last 2 years in the summer then i think the gap between us and liverpool will get even shorter.

Of course, to keep players like Krul, Colo, Ba and Cabaye we will need to invest and show some ambition, but I like the way Ashley and Co are going about it at the minute, If we sign 2-3 more players of the above players ability in the summer, I think we will have an excellent season. Unfortunately to guarantee to keep the colo's we will need to compete for CL football, and the spending required to do that could see us in the same position we were in when we were relegated. The fact is the best policy to build the club is to build slowly and within our means, and if it takes losing a couple of our good players to do that then we have to, because we don't really have an alternative unless you want us to 'do a city'. I can guarentee though, that if we lose any of our star players we will lose them for a good deal more than we paid for them, and that extra money can be used to build the club. It may end up in "Ashley's back pocket" like, but since a f*** load of money has been loaned to us from Ashley's back pocket I guess that may be something we have to live with.

I do think that if Ashley has any sense, he would see that we are only a few players away from a really good first team, but who knows what his real intentions are.

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Benwell Lad on Thursday 5 January 2012, 10:25:54 PM
Thought your earlier post was excellent Stu. Naive - he's avin a Turkish...
Well thought out, well written and clever, yes.
Fact is that whatever people say about our financial structure most of Europe's clubs are cash strapped and there are only a handful who are in a position to offer more financially or in stature than ourselves. If the select few come knocking on the door for our players we're probably f***ed but apart from that we can compete with just about anybody. And we're getting stronger year on year.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Marko NUFC on Thursday 5 January 2012, 10:30:45 PM

My biggest hope would be that, in case of qualification for Europa League, we'd be more attractive to people who want to buy the club.

...and go through all this s*** again?! You're off your rocker.

Sorry but, you think that Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also having being able to fight for a good position in the league? I don't.

I'm not saying we should spent like City do - I'm against this. It destroy the football.

But with Ashley, there's always the danger of players like Ba, Tiote, Cabaye, Krul to be sold - especially after performances like yesterday.

That's going to be the case for 95% of clubs, no matter what level they play at - there's always a bigger club wanting to take your best players off you.

From a purely professional point of view, if Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan, etc., come knocking on your door and offer you the chance to become part of their history, you're going to want to take that opportunity unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your professional ambitions can be realised

Financially, the Champions League clubs are going to be in a much stronger position in terms of wages, so as a footballer with a relatively short career, you want to make the most out of your abilities unless you have a special affinity for the club you're currently with and believe your financial ambitions can be realised

We can't spend our way into the Champions League Club unless we do it organically - something that we actually have evidence that Ashley has achieved during his tenure. Even if he was to pay back his £100m~ loan rather than immediately invest it into new players/wages, it would still leave the club in a much stronger position than when he took over.

Even the most die-hard Ashley hater must feel that the worst of the "Cockney Mafia" is over now - the club is only in it's second season in the Premiership and the foundations appear to be there for genuine progress over several years.

  • Attention to detail in the club scouting department/overhaul of the transfer process by the club - we've been guilty of doing the 'football thing' where the club backs the manager to spend millions of pounds on players that he is going mostly on reputation by. If he's doing the best he can to coach and manage the players he's already got, how on earth can he have been expected to make the most out of the clubs money in the transfer market? Answer: he relies on agents that he 'trusts' to get him players that fill a gap and more money pours out of the club. We appear to have a good scouting and transfer set-up and are getting the maximum value out of the deals we do
(FWIW, North American sports is something we could learn a lot from, they don't do cash transfers but most teams have a position "General Manager" who is responsible for ensuring the right kind of players are on the roster for the "Head Coach"[Manager] to work with on the training ground and on match day. They spend hours upon hours studying film and visiting with potential signings to ensure the best players for their team are brought in via trade, draft or free agency.)

  • Investment in the training facilities has been long overdue, finally addressed by the current owner.
  • Investment in the youth team has been long overdue, we've had a massive talent drain from the NE to the likes of Burra and Sun'lun, players like Colback should never been traipsing across the Tyne to go and play for the darkside.
(On this note, we're supposed to be a society that protects children but we're guilty of letting that poor lad suffer who, not only is a Ginger, has to be surrounded by 20,000 filthy unwashed in order to earn a wage.)

  • The infrastructure of the club has had such a massive upturn since Ashley took over - it was one of the things Mort first commented on when he became 'Chairman', we didn't have any real infrastructure and for a outwardly modern club (fantastic stadium, international players) we were very much in the dark ages when it came to the running of the club.

These are all things that have taken place off the pitch, while we (the fans) are looking for instant results on the pitch, it's the longer-term improvements which are starting to take effect.

As a fan of the club, what is better: splashing £10m on a striker + £8m in transfers over 4 years, or investing £15m over those 4 years into youth development that produces 4-5 first team players over a 5 year period? In the short term, we want the £10m striker - but he's by far the riskier gamble, which the club has proven over the past 18months, we don't need to take in order to get quality players into the club. The myth that money=ambition is perpetuated by the media and agents in order to keep the money flowing out of football, unless you're spending significantly more than the competition, the real value in football comes from having the better manager and coaching staff.

If Ashley wants to make a profit from the club (:lol:) then he needs to keep it in the Premiership.
If Ashley is using the club as a vehicle to advertise Sports Direct, then he wants greater exposure - this comes from having 'name' players. He's not likely to pay for name players, so that suggests we'd try and develop our own 'name' players (i.e. Krul). To hang onto these players, we're going to need to meet the criteria above.

I don't know where you've got this "I don't think Ashley would give us a squad capable of challenging in the Europa League while also being able to fight for a good position in the league" - if you look at the facts of the ownership since relegation, the squad has been trimmed of the deadweight (Alan Smith excepted) and replaced with higher-value players. Yes, they have a resale value but WHY WOULDN'T you want your squad to be outperforming their intial acquisition value?

The worst case scenario is that one summer/January, we take the extreme step of cashing in on all of our most valuable players at once (4 or 5 players) which rips the heart out of the team. I'm struggling to think of any evidence that points to this (has any team NOT in dire financial straits done this in European football?) - maybe Ferguson in the summer of '95? Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince were all sold; however, Fergie had been given the time to sort the youth set up out and we know how that turned out...

Presuming lightning doesn't strike twice and it would set the club back on a footballing level - what does Ashley gain from it? A lower profile club who struggle to stay in the top division? Wouldn't be a financially/exposure-driven sound idea.

Very nice post...interesting read.
And in every segment all i can do is agree with you. Good thinking :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MKSC on Thursday 5 January 2012, 11:22:04 PM
Look at Stu getting love from the forum. Must have been handing out bribes via PM, the dirty Tory.

[/nonspecific40plusnorthernresponse]

 :p
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Thursday 5 January 2012, 11:41:19 PM
Jokes on me for believing some there were more than a couple of people on this forum whose IQ hits triple digits.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Thursday 5 January 2012, 11:44:20 PM
Just answer the question or f*** off man :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Thursday 5 January 2012, 11:49:39 PM
Just not even worth my time :/ Let the lemmings worship their new soap-box preacher, idc lol.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Conjo on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:01:46 AM
:lol: Classic forum tactics to "avoid" looking like a tit there HawK
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:33:41 AM
Most on the Stoke forum think they'll finish above us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:44:54 AM
Fess up. Who murdered Stu and replaced him with a intelligent, rational, logical poster?

Just not even worth my time :/ Let the lemmings worship their new soap-box preacher, idc lol.

This is about as close as you'll get on this forum to seeing someone admit "I've lost this argument" :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: dinotheprehistoricgeordie on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:44:56 AM
I'm not an Ashley fan, but you only need to look at Blackburn to see that a new owner wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Stu also some really good points and we can only hope for the best, but I've given up trying to second guess our owner. Just hold on and hope for the best.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Teasy on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:49:36 AM
Most on the Stoke forum think they'll finish above us.

Most on the Stoke forum are cretins.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: HawK on Friday 6 January 2012, 12:59:12 AM
Fess up. Who murdered Stu and replaced him with a intelligent, rational, logical poster?

Just not even worth my time :/ Let the lemmings worship their new soap-box preacher, idc lol.

This is about as close as you'll get on this forum to seeing someone admit "I've lost this argument" :lol:

Nope. Read again, and understand.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Friday 6 January 2012, 01:28:13 AM
QPR game is a great situation so long as we win, since Liverpool are playing Stoke. We either pull away from those behind, overtake those infront or a bit of both. Really hope we do our part of the bargain.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: PENKAAA on Friday 6 January 2012, 01:44:55 AM
QPR game is a great situation so long as we win, since Liverpool are playing Stoke. We either pull away from those behind, overtake those infront or a bit of both. Really hope we do our part of the bargain.

Tru dat.  :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Friday 6 January 2012, 01:47:52 AM
Fess up. Who murdered Stu and replaced him with a intelligent, rational, logical poster?


:lol:

Love that, according to this argument, naivety is realising that, as much as we may not like Ashley, he's probably a pretty good example of better the devil you know.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Yorkie on Friday 6 January 2012, 01:48:10 AM
That whole weekend of football is pretty huge in our efforts to 'be something' this season, as opposed to an also-ran. Really could do with three points.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Friday 6 January 2012, 02:00:34 AM
That whole weekend of football is pretty huge in our efforts to 'be something' this season, as opposed to an also-ran. Really could do with three points.

Agreed. We beat QPR and it's a massive, massive advantage which would probably allow us an extra slip-up in future fixtures.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: oldtype on Friday 6 January 2012, 02:08:36 AM
Fess up. Who murdered Stu and replaced him with a intelligent, rational, logical poster?


:lol:

Love that, according to this argument, naivety is realising that, as much as we may not like Ashley, he's probably a pretty good example of better the devil you know.

That is way, way, way, way too many commas man.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Friday 6 January 2012, 02:12:05 AM
Fess up. Who murdered Stu and replaced him with a intelligent, rational, logical poster?


:lol:

Love that, according to this argument, naivety is realising that, as much as we may not like Ashley, he's probably a pretty good example of better the devil you know.

That is way, way, way, way too many commas man.

I, like, commas, like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pilko on Friday 6 January 2012, 02:30:37 AM
cp40 will start charging you soon.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Heron on Friday 6 January 2012, 02:56:20 PM
7th is ours and if not, we'll be above it, simple as that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Friday 6 January 2012, 03:01:34 PM
7th is ours and if not, we'll be above it, simple as that.

Thats my thinkin also.

We can really push liverpool for 6th like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Friday 6 January 2012, 03:02:12 PM
Hawk are you the kid that used to post on the old forum that was on nufc.co.uk years ago? And the same guy who was in the paper with SBR iirc?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mr Logic on Friday 6 January 2012, 03:34:58 PM
Stu's always been a good poster, just most of the time he's too busy taking his frustrations out on what he perceives to be stupid posts.

Hawk got his arse kicked there and responds by insulting the whole board with his IQ comment, = anyone agreeing with Stu is an idiot.

I'm happy to be an idiot in this instance.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MKSC on Friday 6 January 2012, 08:47:54 PM
Stu's always been a good poster, just most of the time he's too busy taking his frustrations out on what he perceives to be stupid posts.

Hawk got his arse kicked there and responds by insulting the whole board with his IQ comment, = anyone agreeing with Stu is an idiot.

I'm happy to be an idiot in this instance.

Stu makes reasoned arguments, a thing most people on here are unable to deal with. He's not always right but you can guarantee he can back up his position and rarely resorts to name calling.

He is a proper WUM though, which makes him very unpopular with a lot of the posters on here. If he thinks he can get a bite you know he'll dangle it in there time and again.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Friday 6 January 2012, 08:49:39 PM
Stu's always been a good poster, just most of the time he's too busy taking his frustrations out on what he perceives to be stupid posts.

Hawk got his arse kicked there and responds by insulting the whole board with his IQ comment, = anyone agreeing with Stu is an idiot.

I'm happy to be an idiot in this instance.

Stu makes reasoned arguments, a thing most people on here are unable to deal with. He's not always right but you can guarantee he can back up his position and rarely resorts to name calling.

He is a proper WUM though, which makes him very unpopular with a lot of the posters on here. If he thinks he can get a bite you know he'll dangle it in there time and again.

Sums Stu up there.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Friday 6 January 2012, 09:46:27 PM
QPR game is a great situation so long as we win, since Liverpool are playing Stoke. We either pull away from those behind, overtake those infront or a bit of both. Really hope we do our part of the bargain.
best result would be a draw, and I see us beating QPR at home. 6th is ours :D
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 12 January 2012, 09:26:59 AM
After last night, another point further ahead of 7th.

"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+45..........79 (1st, 80)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+24..........74 (5th, 62)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+28..........72 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+25..........66  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+11.........63  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+1...........52  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-9...........52  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-13............48  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-4...........47  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-13............45  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-16..........44  (9th, 48)
Sunderland..........................38...........-10..........41  (10th, 47)
Swansea City........................38.........-9............40  (20th, 33)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-16...........39  (14th, 46)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-13..........38  (15th, 43)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-36...........30  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-38...........30  (16th, 42)



Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 12 January 2012, 09:45:53 AM
I can see you trailing off a bit as the season goes on but still finish 7th. We sure as hell aren't doing anything barring a stonking improvement, I don't think Stoke will be consistent enough to overtake you and stay ahead, Villa look fairly gash, and that's about it really.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 12 January 2012, 09:47:31 AM
I can see you trailing off a bit as the season goes on but still finish 7th. We sure as hell aren't doing anything barring a stonking improvement, I don't think Stoke will be consistent enough to overtake you and stay ahead, Villa look fairly gash, and that's about it really.
:thup:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:03:46 AM
For your sake, I hope Europe ends up going down to 7th. It would be a good season no doubt but to get into Europe would really be a sign of big progress.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JS on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:10:54 AM
For your sake, I hope Europe ends up going down to 7th. It would be a good season no doubt but to get into Europe would really be a sign of big progress.

I dont think it does this year, sadly. Im sure it was 5th or 5th & 6th place, plus the FA cup winners and league cup winners?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:13:05 AM
1st - Champions League group stage
2nd - Champions League group stage
3rd - Champions League group stage
4th - Champions League qualifying stage
5th - Europa League
6th - Europa League (only if both FA Cup finalists finish 1st-5th)
7th - Europa League (only if Carling Cup winner finishes 1st-5th and first additional spot above is taken)
Other - Europa League (Fair Play League winner if England qualifies)

I think that's right. Basically if we want to be in Europe next year, we need to finish 7th at least and hope the top Premier League clubs contest the cup finals (or win the FA Cup ourselves :bluestar:).
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AlanSkärare on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:13:26 AM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:16:21 AM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Norwich maybe Swansea definitely not.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:29:50 AM
It's s*** how we get 4 places in the Champions League but on league standings we only get 1 slot for the Europa League.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: healthyaddiction on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:30:21 AM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Norwich maybe Swansea definitely not.

After picking up Gylfi Sigurdsson and possibly McEachren Swansea are going to look really good I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AlanSkärare on Thursday 12 January 2012, 10:33:47 AM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Norwich maybe Swansea definitely not.

After picking up Gylfi Sigurdsson and possibly McEachren Swansea are going to look really good I think.

That's the thing. They won't abandon their footballing philosophy and have signed players that fit very, very well into their style of playing. I think they'll be more consistent and maybe start to pick up points away from home as well now.

Norwich players just have to make sure they keep the belief and they'll have a fantastic season all in all.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sho'Time on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:34:43 AM
I reckon for finishing 7th it'll be a clash between ourselves and Stoke which is already how it's looking at the moment. If the dog-buckers carry on their revival they could actually end up being around there at the end of the season. I personally think we'll finish 8th at the lowest this season. Teams like Villa and Everton would normally be challenging for that sort of spot too, but both have been gash this season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:37:06 AM
I reckon for finishing 7th it'll be a clash between ourselves and Stoke which is already how it's looking at the moment. If the dog-buckers carry on their revival they could actually end up being around there at the end of the season. I personally think we'll finish 8th at the lowest this season. Teams like Villa and Everton would normally be challenging for that sort of spot too, but both have been gash this season.

Once the Europa League kicks back in, I can only see them struggling like they did during the group stage.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sho'Time on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:41:56 AM
That's something that can work to our advantage, although the chances of Stoke advancing past Valencia are slim so I don't think it'll make that much of a difference to their league performance unless they pick up any key injuries in the 2 legs.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:45:45 AM
That's something that can work to our advantage, although the chances of Stoke advancing past Valencia are slim so I don't think it'll make that much of a difference to their league performance unless they pick up any key injuries in the 2 legs.
Still two game they have to recover from which is six points, plus we still have to play them so thats nine potential dropped points for them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:47:28 AM
Two of the top 6 in the league out of the cup at at minimum by round 5. Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal all got difficult fixtures too. An all top 6 final, giving 7th place a European spot, is far from guaranteed.

It'll be just our luck to finish 7th and have a Man U v Bolton final or something daft like that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AliGupter on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Two of the top 6 in the league out of the cup at at minimum by round 5. Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal all got difficult fixtures too. An all top 6 final, giving 7th place a European spot, is far from guaranteed.

It'll be just our luck to finish 7th and have a Man U v Bolton final or something daft like that.

I think a top 6 FA Cup final is unlikely now.

It does make it more likely that we could get to the final though, by default, whether we can is another issue but I don't see why not.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BottledDog on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:49:31 AM
Can see Sunderland being in with a shout too, the way they're carrying on. :buck2:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AliGupter on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:52:17 AM
Can see Sunderland being in with a shout too, the way they're carrying on. :buck2:

Of the FA Cup final yes, there's a few teams who could get there realistically with a kind draw, nothing to fear now the best team in the country is out.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colocho on Thursday 12 January 2012, 11:53:03 AM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Norwich maybe Swansea definitely not.

Swansea more likely to be in top 10, tbh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 12 January 2012, 01:57:47 PM
For your sake, I hope Europe ends up going down to 7th. It would be a good season no doubt but to get into Europe would really be a sign of big progress.

I would be happy either way:

- We qualify for the early stages of the Europa league, it gives us a chance to blood some of the youngsters who have shown flashes of something this season. Extended gametime for the likes of Ferguson, Sammeobi, Vuckic, Abeid, etc. Downside is that we end up burning out the likes of Colo and Cabaye by mid-Feb (should we progress through the group stage) or playing Thurs/Sun damages the routines that the players have got into this season.

- We don't qualify for Europa, it allows the players to have a longer summer rest and we can make a concentrated effort on the cups for the 'kids' and continue to improve our league performances while the club rebuilds and restocks the squad.

IMO, we're already 'ahead' of any sort of 5-year plan to turn the club back into a top 6 challenging side - this season was supposed to be about consolidating our Premiership position and finishing comfortably in the Top10. As it stands, we're already onto Season 3 (signing a couple of quality additions to allow us to challenge in matches against the Champions League teams and put distance between ourselves and the mid-table bunch).

The younger players aren't quite ready for a full-time role yet, so to throw them into a Europa campaign might knock them back a step in their development if it doesn't go well. Alternatively, we keep with our 'first choice' players and burn them out/increase the chances of injury.

When Smith and Lovenkrands leave in the summer (or sooner), we'll have finally cleared out the non-Premiership standard players from the club (debatable over the likes of Perch + Obertan but they're viable squad players) and they can be replaced by more promising/suitable players. These players might not be ready for English football immediately, or just need time to settle into the club and the area, which is why I think Europe might be a season too soon.

Wouldn't say no to it though - playing FC Dnt Hvanme on Channel 5 :aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: aussiemag on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:01:04 PM
For your sake, I hope Europe ends up going down to 7th. It would be a good season no doubt but to get into Europe would really be a sign of big progress.

I would be happy either way:

- We qualify for the early stages of the Europa league, it gives us a chance to blood some of the youngsters who have shown flashes of something this season. Extended gametime for the likes of Ferguson, Sammeobi, Vuckic, Abeid, etc. Downside is that we end up burning out the likes of Colo and Cabaye by mid-Feb (should we progress through the group stage) or playing Thurs/Sun damages the routines that the players have got into this season.

- We don't qualify for Europa, it allows the players to have a longer summer rest and we can make a concentrated effort on the cups for the 'kids' and continue to improve our league performances while the club rebuilds and restocks the squad.

IMO, we're already 'ahead' of any sort of 5-year plan to turn the club back into a top 6 challenging side - this season was supposed to be about consolidating our Premiership position and finishing comfortably in the Top10. As it stands, we're already onto Season 3 (signing a couple of quality additions to allow us to challenge in matches against the Champions League teams and put distance between ourselves and the mid-table bunch).

The younger players aren't quite ready for a full-time role yet, so to throw them into a Europa campaign might knock them back a step in their development if it doesn't go well. Alternatively, we keep with our 'first choice' players and burn them out/increase the chances of injury.

When Smith and Lovenkrands leave in the summer (or sooner), we'll have finally cleared out the non-Premiership standard players from the club (debatable over the likes of Perch + Obertan but they're viable squad players) and they can be replaced by more promising/suitable players. These players might not be ready for English football immediately, or just need time to settle into the club and the area, which is why I think Europe might be a season too soon.

Wouldn't say no to it though - playing FC Dnt Hvanme on Channel 5 :aww:

Excellent post Stu. For once im in total agreeance. :D
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:05:50 PM
International fixtures or NOFC must be on the cards too if we do qualify!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:10:42 PM
:thup: Bring on Malaga in the first round ;)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gggg on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:12:54 PM
If there's one thing i miss it's European nights, I don't see a downside. The only thing a European run could stop us doing is...qualifying for Europe. Hasn't done Stoke much harm.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:15:25 PM
:thup: Bring on Malaga in the first round ;)

"And Newcastle will face......."

 :pardsgrin:

"FK Shithead 1911."

 :jones:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:16:26 PM
I think Norwich and Swansea will mix it in the top 10 if they keep their spirit up.
Norwich maybe Swansea definitely not.

Swansea more likely to be in top 10, tbh.

Not a hope in hell of them finishing in the top 10.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: aussiemag on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:18:39 PM
I think the top 10 will finish ..

1. Manchester City
2. Tottenham Hotspur
3. Manchester United
4. Arsenal
5. Chelsea
6. Liverpool
7. Newcastle
8. Stoke City
9. Aston Villa
10. Everton
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:46:18 PM
Where is Pip's latest update? The OP?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Thursday 12 January 2012, 02:55:23 PM
I think the top 10 will finish ..

1. Manchester City
2. Tottenham Hotspur
3. Manchester United
4. Arsenal
5. Chelsea
6. Liverpool
7. Newcastle
8. Stoke City
9. Aston Villa
10. Everton

Change Utd For Spurs, and Arsenal for Chelsea.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Thursday 12 January 2012, 03:08:14 PM
I think the top 10 will finish ..

1. Manchester City
2. Tottenham Hotspur
3. Manchester United
4. Arsenal
5. Chelsea
6. Liverpool
7. Newcastle
8. Stoke City
9. Aston Villa
10. Everton

Change Utd For Spurs, and Arsenal for Chelsea.

:pilko:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Thursday 12 January 2012, 03:09:01 PM
f***ing fed up of seeing that on here.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Thursday 12 January 2012, 03:19:06 PM
Hartlepool aren't even in the division.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 14 January 2012, 10:06:02 AM
Gameweek 14:
Stoke, Fulham (+2)
Bolton, West Brom (0)
Newcastle, Villa, Sunderland (-1)
Everton (-3)

Gameweek 15:
Stoke, Villa (+2)
Everton, Sunderland (0)
Newcastle, Fulham (-1)
Bolton, West Brom (-3)

Gameweek 16:
Stoke, West Brom (+2)
Fulham, Sunderland (0)
Bolton, Villa (-1)
Newcastle, Everton (-2)

Gameweek 17:
Bolton, West Brom, Sunderland (+2)
Stoke, Everton (0)
Villa, Fulham (-1)
Newcastle (-3)

Gameweek 18:
Newcastle (+2)
Everton, Villa, Fulham, West Brom (0)
Stoke, Sunderland (-2)
Bolton (-3)

Gameweek 19:
Villa (+3)
Everton, Sunderland (+2)
Newcastle, Fulham (0)
Stoke, Bolton (-2)
West Brom (-3)

December results - GW 14 - 19
Stoke, Villa (+2)
Sunderland (+1)
Fulham (0)
West Brom (-2)
Everton (-3)
Newcastle (-5)
Bolton (-7)

Actual Table after December
Newcastle (30)
Stoke (26)
Everton (24)
Villa (23)
West Brom (22)
Sunderland (21)
Fulham (20)
Bolton (13)

Projected Final Table (after December results)
Newcastle (60)
Stoke (55)
Everton (53)
Villa (52)
West Brom (51)
Fulham (50)
Sunderland (48)
Bolton (41)

Season: Up to Gameweek 19
Newcastle (+2)
Stoke (-3)
Everton (-5)
Villa (-6)
West Brom (-7)
Fulham (-8)
Sunderland (-10)
Bolton (-17)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 14 January 2012, 10:12:16 AM
Disastrous month for us. Absolutely horrible. We f***ed up two easy home games in a row, losing 5 points in the process. The away win at Bolton salvaged some points for the month for us but it was a really terrible month. Only Bolton had a worse month. Stoke and Villa made up seven points on us. But, we were lucky that we had a built a good buffer so we still ended the month with a good 5 point lead in the expected table, and a 4 point lead in the real table, which means that we're expected to get one more point in the second half of the season than Stoke. It's a way of saying that our fixture list is easier than theirs by 1 point in the second half of the table.

Looking at other teams, Everton made up a few points on us, but they're still 7 behind us in the expected table, and 6 points behind in the real table, which means - again - that their fixtures are harder than ours by 1 point in the second half of the season. It's interesting to see that by this definition, we have the easiest fixtures out of every team we're competing with in the second half of the season, even if it's only by 1 point. We're 9 ahead of Sunderland in the real table but 12 ahead of them in the expected table, which means that their fixtures are harder than ours by 3 points in the second half of the season.

We still have a decent lead, and we're still expected to reach 60 points, which means we've had a very good first half to the season. We could have had an amazing half if our December was slightly more respectable, but anyway, everything is still going ok.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Saturday 14 January 2012, 10:23:52 AM
Gameweek 20:
Newcastle, Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, Bolton (+2)
West Brom (0)
Villa, Everton (-3)

There were two matches for Everton in this GW.


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ketsbaia on Saturday 14 January 2012, 11:28:06 AM
We have a very winnable home game, whilst Stoke and Sunderland are away to top 6 sides. Our gaps can go to 7 and 12 points again...vital weekend for 7th place
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Saturday 14 January 2012, 02:30:28 PM
A draw for Liverpool and Stoke today with us beating QPR would see us up to 6th and pull away from 8th as well!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Saturday 14 January 2012, 04:10:43 PM
A draw for Liverpool and Stoke today with us beating QPR would see us up to 6th and pull away from 8th as well!

Would be great!

Watchin the bin dippers game and its all liverpool like. Hope Stoke can hold on for a draw. Even if Stoke won it would be a great result for us.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Saturday 14 January 2012, 04:31:20 PM
I'd rather Liverpool won out of the two tbh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 14 January 2012, 05:00:01 PM
As long as Liverpool's home form stays like this, 6th is realistic.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Saturday 14 January 2012, 05:01:00 PM
Well done Stoke! Aside from Norwich winning the clubs behind us all dropped points. Mackems  and Fulham lost while Everton and Villa drew.

Huge chance for us to jump ahead of Liverpool thmora. Would go a point clear and they have a tough run of games coming up. Away to Bolton,Wolves and Spurs then at home to Man U while we have Fulham and Blackburn away, a home game against Villa and then away to Spurs.

Tough games for us too but we could well pick up more points in the next four after QPR than Liverpool.

6th looking good for us now so long as we do a job thmora. Come on!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ikon on Saturday 14 January 2012, 05:10:31 PM
Great results for us today.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ykmkmdd on Saturday 14 January 2012, 05:22:12 PM

Huge chance for us to jump ahead of Liverpool thmora. Would go a point clear and they have a tough run of games coming up. Away to Bolton,Wolves and Spurs then at home to Man U while we have Fulham and Blackburn away, a home game against Villa and then away to Spurs.

Tough games for us too but we could well pick up more points in the next four after QPR than Liverpool.

Aye. Then we both have 2 home games, us against Wolves and the mackems (with Tiote and Ba back) them against Everton and Arsenal - looks quite promising....

Cue a home defeat tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Saturday 14 January 2012, 05:26:04 PM

Huge chance for us to jump ahead of Liverpool thmora. Would go a point clear and they have a tough run of games coming up. Away to Bolton,Wolves and Spurs then at home to Man U while we have Fulham and Blackburn away, a home game against Villa and then away to Spurs.

Tough games for us too but we could well pick up more points in the next four after QPR than Liverpool.

Aye. Then we both have 2 home games, us against Wolves and the mackems (with Tiote and Ba back) them against Everton and Arsenal - looks quite promising....

Cue a home defeat tomorrow!

Less of that fella!

Really is set up for a great race for 6th never mind 7th. Great season and i am more than confident we are good enough to challenge strong!

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:00:38 PM

Huge chance for us to jump ahead of Liverpool thmora. Would go a point clear and they have a tough run of games coming up. Away to Bolton,Wolves and Spurs then at home to Man U while we have Fulham and Blackburn away, a home game against Villa and then away to Spurs.

Tough games for us too but we could well pick up more points in the next four after QPR than Liverpool.

Aye. Then we both have 2 home games, us against Wolves and the mackems (with Tiote and Ba back) them against Everton and Arsenal - looks quite promising....

Cue a home defeat tomorrow!

Less of that fella!

Really is set up for a great race for 6th never mind 7th. Great season and i am more than confident we are good enough to challenge strong!



I wouldn't say us versus Liverpool for a competition they don't want to be in is a great race, like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:01:47 PM

Huge chance for us to jump ahead of Liverpool thmora. Would go a point clear and they have a tough run of games coming up. Away to Bolton,Wolves and Spurs then at home to Man U while we have Fulham and Blackburn away, a home game against Villa and then away to Spurs.

Tough games for us too but we could well pick up more points in the next four after QPR than Liverpool.

Aye. Then we both have 2 home games, us against Wolves and the mackems (with Tiote and Ba back) them against Everton and Arsenal - looks quite promising....

Cue a home defeat tomorrow!

Less of that fella!

Really is set up for a great race for 6th never mind 7th. Great season and i am more than confident we are good enough to challenge strong!



I wouldn't say us versus Liverpool for a competition they don't want to be in is a great race, like.

Alrite then.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:04:06 PM
If we're one place behind where we need to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see the team above basically concede the last game or two.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mole_Toonfan on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:06:52 PM
How long until this changes to the battle for 6th?  :pardsgrin:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:07:18 PM
August.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Mole_Toonfan on Saturday 14 January 2012, 07:07:52 PM
August.

 :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Saturday 14 January 2012, 09:32:57 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gggg on Saturday 14 January 2012, 09:51:21 PM
It is a battle for 6th. We could be there tomorrow and Liverpool will drop plenty of points along the way because they can't score goals.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Saturday 14 January 2012, 10:25:27 PM
It is a battle for 6th. We could be there tomorrow and Liverpool will drop plenty of points along the way because they can't score goals.

I'd hold off on that last comment to be honest. We have to rely on Best and Shola for the next 6 weeks.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:34:38 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AjNcYmqCMAMlHJM.png)

:aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:36:45 PM
Swansea for a 4-0 win today. :fwap:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:38:35 PM
:aww:

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7859/capturelrh.png)

Beat the relegation season points tally.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:39:34 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AjNcYmqCMAMlHJM.png)

:aww:

Liking the look of that :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:45:19 PM
Beat the relegation season points tally.

In 21 games. :lol: Insane. :aww:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:50:11 PM
What are we now, 9 games ahead of last year now?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 15 January 2012, 03:51:03 PM
What are we now, 9 games ahead of last year now?

8, I think.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Pip on Sunday 15 January 2012, 04:42:54 PM
Gameweek 21:
Stoke (+1)
Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland, Bolton (0)
Fulham (-1)
Villa (-2)
West Brom (-3)

Season: Up to Gameweek 21
Newcastle (+4)
Stoke (0)
Fulham (-7)
Everton, Sunderland (-8)
West Brom (-10)
Villa (-11)
Bolton (-15)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 04:44:53 PM
Two wins away from 4th  :frantic:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Sunday 15 January 2012, 05:45:37 PM
Effectively 7 points clear of 8th with Goal difference.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Didn't know stoke have such bad goal difference.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Sunday 15 January 2012, 05:57:30 PM
f*** 7th, lets get 4th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Sunday 15 January 2012, 05:57:31 PM
Didn't know stoke have such bad goal difference.

Distorted a little bit by that Bolton tanking.

Edit: Not to say that it should be discounted or anything.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 15 January 2012, 05:59:05 PM
We've done brilliantly to bounce back since the WBA match. 3 wins out of 4 now. Frustrating that if we really did take a gamble this month, we'd never have a better shot at 4th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:00:12 PM
Can't believe Arsenal's is better than ours with the 8-2 loss to Man Utd., but our biggest win was the 3-0 over them.

Hope the feat is repeated next weekend.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: nemtizz on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:00:34 PM
LOL WE'RE GONNA WIN THE PREM.

Nah but good weekend for us. Fulham away next week is a great chance to climb above Arsenal as they have Manu.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:02:22 PM
Can't believe Arsenal's is better than ours with the 8-2 loss to Man Utd., but our biggest win was the 3-0 over them.

Hope the feat is repeated next weekend.

Our defence is better though :snod:

25 - 31 :pards:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ishmael on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:03:26 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AjNcYmqCMAMlHJM.png)

:aww:

Liking the look of that :smug:

Looks even better now :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:04:26 PM
We've done brilliantly to bounce back since the WBA match. 3 wins out of 4 now. Frustrating that if we really did take a gamble this month, we'd never have a better shot at 4th.

Aye. An incredibly mediocre team (relatively) will finish 4th this season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:06:00 PM
We've done brilliantly to bounce back since the WBA match. 3 wins out of 4 now. Frustrating that if we really did take a gamble this month, we'd never have a better shot at 4th.

Aye. An incredibly mediocre team (relatively) will finish 4th this season.

That's the way to do it.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sicko2ndbest on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:11:36 PM
Title change?

Battle for 5th/6th

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: timeEd32 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:13:54 PM
Title change?

Battle for 5th/6th

Throws the whole formula off.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: sicko2ndbest on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:16:49 PM
Title change?

Battle for 5th/6th

Throws the whole formula off.

It can be changed back if need be!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:29:24 PM
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2465/captureixz.png)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:31:04 PM
With Swansea beating Arsenal today we really are in a strong position.

Arsenal are away to Man U next weekend so should they get done over and we win at fulham we could be 3 clear in 5th!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:32:00 PM
 :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:32:46 PM
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2465/captureixz.png)

I actually love seeing these graphs :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:35:08 PM
We're only 3 wins and a draw away from equaling last years total, and that is entirely doable with 17 games to go.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Decky on Sunday 15 January 2012, 06:41:13 PM
f***ing 17 games to go! :lol: It's mental how good our season is going.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: womblemaster on Sunday 15 January 2012, 07:05:09 PM
calm down chaps. IF you keep being this positive, tiote will get eaten by a python in africa or something!!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Sunday 15 January 2012, 07:05:45 PM
calm down chaps. IF you keep being this positive, tiote will get eaten by a python in africa or something!!

Can't see that ending well for the python
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Sunday 15 January 2012, 07:06:33 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 07:20:15 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Sunday 15 January 2012, 07:38:22 PM
Title change?

Battle for 5th/6th



:kinnear:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:10:44 PM
Interesting to see the title odds for us, and the title odds for Racistpool, considering our respective league positions.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BlueStar on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:11:58 PM
Most of the league is s*** the season, best chance of a curve-ball getting into europe for a while.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:13:18 PM
Most places not offering a price on us. Most places saying Liverpool 500-1.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MKSC on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:41:40 PM
Interesting to see the title odds for us, and the title odds for Racistpool, considering our respective league positions.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner)

Not really that surprising. Current position is not the only thing to consider when odds compiling, they'll be speculating as to the chances of the team making a run over the rest of the season and looking at past form. The odds for both team suggest little chance of winning but given the perceived strength of the Liverpool squad over ours and the recent history of both clubs it is entirely logical that they are shorter than us by a wide margin.

That's not to say we won't finish above them though.

A better indication of where we are seen by the bookies is the betting without the 'big 6'. We are 8/15, Stoke next at 7/2 and 12/1 Everton. You can also get 5/1 about us to finish top 6.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ChrisJbarnes on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:47:30 PM
To finish top 4: Newcastle 66/1 Liverpool 11/4
To finish top 6: Newcastle 5/1 Liverpool 1/8

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish)

Even with the fact that as Newcastle fans, we are all obviously going to biased- I can't see when we are above Liverpool in the league 21 games in that the odds imply they are more or less a dead cert to finish top 6. Even for top 4 the difference is staggering.

Still fancy us to finish 7th mind, and that would be a great achievement
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 15 January 2012, 08:50:39 PM
I've been watching Statto/Oddschecker's forecast points for this season. At present they show this as the final league table:

1   Manchester City    84
2   Manchester United    83
3   Tottenham Hotspur    76
4   Chelsea    70
5   Arsenal    67
6   Liverpool    63
7   Newcastle United    60
8   Stoke City    53
9   Everton    48
10   Norwich City    48
11   Aston Villa    46
12   Fulham    46
13   Sunderland    45
14   West Bromwich Albion    42
15   Swansea City    42
16   Wolverhampton Wndrs    36
17   Blackburn Rovers    34
18   Wigan Athletic    33
19   Bolton Wanderers    33
20   Queens Park Rangers    33
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MKSC on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:01:41 PM
To finish top 4: Newcastle 66/1 Liverpool 11/4
To finish top 6: Newcastle 5/1 Liverpool 1/8

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish)

Even with the fact that as Newcastle fans, we are all obviously going to biased- I can't see when we are above Liverpool in the league 21 games in that the odds imply they are more or less a dead cert to finish top 6. Even for top 4 the difference is staggering.

Still fancy us to finish 7th mind, and that would be a great achievement

Because Liverpool are perceived to have a better squad and have more course and distance form over the last few years. It's not really that hard to understand. If you think the odds compilers have got it badly wrong then get stuck in.

I'm not saying I agree with their odds mind, just that I understand why they have the prices as they are. I think we are way over priced and have got some good money on it. I was actually looking for a match bet between us and Liverpool for the rest of the season as I reckon the price would be good value, can't find one though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:03:29 PM
while  personally would have Liverpool to finish above us those odds are a bit ridiculous in their bias
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:04:27 PM
Do bookies really have bias?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Ronaldo on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:05:56 PM
City will finish on at least 90, like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: MKSC on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:08:02 PM
Do bookies really have bias?

No.

Bookies don't do anything without first calculating the risk.

I was an odds compiler and a betting shop manager. Trust me, bookmakers don't gamble. They don't always get it right, but that is the nature of sport, sometimes the less likely option comes to pass.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: neesy111 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:09:25 PM
Aye, bookies are only in it for the money.  No bias at all as it would be a risk to do so.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ChrisJbarnes on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:12:14 PM
To finish top 4: Newcastle 66/1 Liverpool 11/4
To finish top 6: Newcastle 5/1 Liverpool 1/8

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-6-finish)

Even with the fact that as Newcastle fans, we are all obviously going to biased- I can't see when we are above Liverpool in the league 21 games in that the odds imply they are more or less a dead cert to finish top 6. Even for top 4 the difference is staggering.

Still fancy us to finish 7th mind, and that would be a great achievement

Because Liverpool are perceived to have a better squad and have more course and distance form over the last few years. It's not really that hard to understand. If you think the odds compilers have got it badly wrong then get stuck in.

I'm not saying I agree with their odds mind, just that I understand why they have the prices as they are. I think we are way over priced and have got some good money on it. I was actually looking for a match bet between us and Liverpool for the rest of the season as I reckon the price would be good value, can't find one though.

Bias aside, I can't see how there can be such a huge margin- 66/1 and 11/4. Don't generally bet as a rule but I'd think 5/1 to finish top 6 might be worth a punt.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:16:53 PM
Don't forget there's also the matter of where the money is going. If a thousand people suddenly put money on us I would imagine those odds would drop sharply.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:18:23 PM
true but even accounting for that I can't get my head around the top 4 finish odds difference, I'd expect us to be a longer shot but 66-1?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: thomas on Sunday 15 January 2012, 09:27:48 PM
Strength of schedule for the remaining games is pretty even.  The decider is probably going to be the game at SJP between us. 
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Jagten on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:14:58 PM
Why is it tottenham, who could be 5 off 1st tomorrow 'can win the league'. Whilst we are 4 off 4th, level with arsenal and above Liverpool, but do not have a 'cat in hells chance of forth'. Stumped me that one.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:15:29 PM
Spurs have always been media darlings
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: bowlingcrofty on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:17:33 PM
Strength of schedule for the remaining games is pretty even.  The decider is probably going to be the game at SJP between us. 

I think they'll probably finish 5 or 6 points above us, with it being fairly close until we lose our last two games.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:22:46 PM
We will beat them at SJP.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:26:21 PM
Why is it tottenham, who could be 5 off 1st tomorrow 'can win the league'. Whilst we are 4 off 4th, level with arsenal and above Liverpool, but do not have a 'cat in hells chance of forth'. Stumped me that one.
The media just don't like it when anyone other then there seven (Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Stoke) have a good season.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:35:41 PM
Why is it tottenham, who could be 5 off 1st tomorrow 'can win the league'. Whilst we are 4 off 4th, level with arsenal and above Liverpool, but do not have a 'cat in hells chance of forth'. Stumped me that one.
The media just don't like it when anyone other then there seven (Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Stoke) have a good season.

I hate the media in general as much as most but is it not because this is our second season back in the PL, with a history of pissing away good chances to make progress as a club? We're pretty much expected to fall by the wayside as the season progresses, like any other team would be in this position. If this 'Sky seven' Stoke you refer to were in our shoes right now, I highly doubt odds would be much better, probably worse because of the lack of recent history tbh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:38:29 PM
christ if Stoke were in our position the media would never shut up about it, unbelievable how much they w*** over them especially considering they never actually try and play football
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:40:08 PM
christ if Stoke were in our position the media would never shut up about it, unbelievable how much they w*** over them especially considering they never actually try and play football

Despite spending about a billion more than us as well.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Fenham Mag on Sunday 15 January 2012, 10:59:03 PM
christ if Stoke were in our position the media would never shut up about it, unbelievable how much they w*** over them especially considering they never actually try and play football

Take it as a compliment that they think that's where we should be.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: cubaricho on Sunday 15 January 2012, 11:35:53 PM
To finish top 6: Newcastle 5/1 Liverpool 1/8

Would definitely throw a few dollars down on us at those odds if I could bet.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Monday 16 January 2012, 12:31:29 AM
Looking at the remaining fixtures on statto, of the teams in fourth to seventh, we've got the most home games left against teams lower down the league. Four of Arsenal's remaining home games are against the current top four.  Chelsea have the bottom four at home but only two home and seven away to the teams in fifth to fifteenth.

I doubt we'll do it, but a striker and center half and we could be right up there. CL qualification would pay for them straight away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Wil on Monday 16 January 2012, 12:43:24 AM
Daring to dream, but Arsenal are definitely weak defensively and at the moment I've got them down as a team we could pick off and squeeze into the top six.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: leffe186 on Monday 16 January 2012, 05:17:47 AM
Looking at the remaining fixtures on statto, of the teams in fourth to seventh, we've got the most home games left against teams lower down the league. Four of Arsenal's remaining home games are against the current top four.  Chelsea have the bottom four at home but only two home and seven away to the teams in fifth to fifteenth.

I doubt we'll do it, but a striker and center half and we could be right up there. CL qualification would pay for them straight away.

Are you saying that's a good thing? Only doesn't that mean that you have more away games against better teams? Or are you writing off all games against higher teams?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: leffe186 on Monday 16 January 2012, 05:19:38 AM
I've been watching Statto/Oddschecker's forecast points for this season. At present they show this as the final league table:

1   Manchester City    84
2   Manchester United    83
3   Tottenham Hotspur    76
4   Chelsea    70
5   Arsenal    67
6   Liverpool    63
7   Newcastle United    60
8   Stoke City    53
9   Everton    48
10   Norwich City    48
11   Aston Villa    46
12   Fulham    46
13   Sunderland    45
14   West Bromwich Albion    42
15   Swansea City    42
16   Wolverhampton Wndrs    36
17   Blackburn Rovers    34
18   Wigan Athletic    33
19   Bolton Wanderers    33
20   Queens Park Rangers    33

Sorry lads, but I'd chomp their arm off for that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stottie on Monday 16 January 2012, 08:07:39 AM
Looking at the remaining fixtures on statto, of the teams in fourth to seventh, we've got the most home games left against teams lower down the league. Four of Arsenal's remaining home games are against the current top four.  Chelsea have the bottom four at home but only two home and seven away to the teams in fifth to fifteenth.

I doubt we'll do it, but a striker and center half and we could be right up there. CL qualification would pay for them straight away.

Are you saying that's a good thing? Only doesn't that mean that you have more away games against better teams? Or are you writing off all games against higher teams?

Just looking for games that we have a fair chance of winning with what's left of the squad. Personally, I'm not into the pundits' idea that you must to beat the teams at the top to deserve to be up there, especially not this season when fourth place downwards are dropping lots of points.

Pip's original post is based on winning x home games vs. certain teams and doesn't expect anything from the hardest away fixtures, so yeah I suppose I agree with that.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 16 January 2012, 08:53:19 AM
"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+47..........79 (1st, 80)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+22..........72 (5th, 62)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+32..........75 (2nd, 71)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+21..........63  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+9.........61  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........53  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-7...........53  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-11............51  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........46  (8th, 49)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-15............42  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-17..........42  (9th, 48)
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........38  (10th, 47)
Swansea City........................38.........-5............43  (20th, 33)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-18...........39  (14th, 46)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-11..........40  (15th, 43)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-34...........31  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-38...........30  (16th, 42)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 16 January 2012, 08:54:54 AM
I've done that on my mobile so if someone fancies tweaking the positions that would be great.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: aussiemag on Monday 16 January 2012, 09:03:49 AM
"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+47..........79 (1st, 80)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+32..........75 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+22..........72 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+21..........63  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+9.........61  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........53  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-7...........53  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-11............51  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........46  (8th, 49)
Swansea City........................38.........-5............43  (20th, 33)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-15............42  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-17..........42  (9th, 48)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-11..........40  (15th, 43)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-18...........39  (14th, 46
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........38  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-34...........31  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-38...........30  (16th, 42)

Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stu on Monday 16 January 2012, 10:23:29 AM
Daring to dream, but Arsenal are definitely weak defensively and at the moment I've got them down as a team we could pick off and squeeze into the top six.

:nope: not this argument again
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roger Kint on Monday 16 January 2012, 10:29:28 AM
"Rolling League Table"



(Last season's points & position in brackets)

Manchester City..................38...........+52...........81 (3rd, 71)
Manchester United.............38............+47..........79 (1st, 80)
Chelsea..............................38.......... ..+32..........75 (2nd, 71)
Tottenham Hotspur.............38............+22..........72 (5th, 62)
Arsenal................................38........ ...+21..........63  (4th, 68)
Newcastle United.................38...........+14...........63  (12th, 46)
Liverpool.............................38......... ...+9.........61  (6th, 58)
Everton...............................38......... ....+2...........53  (7th, 54)
Stoke City............................38...........-7...........53  (13th, 46)
Norwich City..........................38.........-11............51  (19th, 39)
Fulham................................38......... ...-5...........46  (8th, 49)
Swansea City........................38.........-5............43  (20th, 33)
West Bromwich Albion.........38...........-15............42  (11th, 47)
Aston Villa...........................38............-17..........42  (9th, 48)
Blackburn Rovers.................38...........-11..........40  (15th, 43)
Bolton Wanderers...............38............-18...........39  (14th, 46
Sunderland..........................38...........-14..........38  (10th, 47)
Queen's Park Rangers..........38.........-24............31  (18th, 39)
Wolverhampton Wanderers.38..........-34...........31  (17th, 40)
Wigan Athletic....................38..........-38...........30  (16th, 42)


mackems :D
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:00:53 PM
We lost all of our next 3 games (league). A great chance to put more positives on the rolling league table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: ponsaelius on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:04:52 PM
wat.

We beat Villa 6-0 and drew away at Blackburn.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:05:20 PM
wat.

We beat Villa 6-0 and drew away at Blackburn.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Stifleaay on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:05:39 PM
wat.

We beat Villa 6-0 and drew away at Blackburn.
f***ing statto, had them all downs loses and the Villa game down as an away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TRon on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:57:31 PM
f*** 7th. Champions League is ON!!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: 54 on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 02:59:00 PM
f*** 7th. Champions League is ON!!
:snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 03:05:42 PM
If we can seal the deal with Cisse and get another defender in, we'll be feared. :)
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 06:49:33 PM
So this looks like potential first choice for rest of the season, all fingers crossed? Assuming (and big assumption) that Cisse and Cissokho both are successfully signed and settle in that's a great lineup, 7th is the minimum that should achieve imo.

                          Krul

Santon   Williamson   Colo    Cissokho

     HBA      Tiote     Cabaye     Jonas

                    Ba
                              Cisse
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 06:50:12 PM
I don't think there's owt in this Cissokho talk tbh.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Colo's Short and Curlies on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 06:53:34 PM
From that line up on Williamson wouldn't interest a top 4 team (even if he could do a job for them).

So even with Simpson there instead of Cissokho theres 9 potential top 4 players in our first 11.

Bring on the rest of the season, its going to get emotional
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 06:54:30 PM
I don't think there's owt in this Cissokho talk tbh.

Yeah dunno, wait and see.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TherealnorthernTOON on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 06:55:25 PM
You gotto believe! beeeeeeeeeeeliiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeveeeeeeee!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Newcastle Fan on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:00:39 PM
7th :yao:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:01:55 PM
So this looks like potential first choice for rest of the season, all fingers crossed? Assuming (and big assumption) that Cisse and Cissokho both are successfully signed and settle in that's a great lineup, 7th is the minimum that should achieve imo.

                          Krul

Santon   Williamson   Colo    Cissokho

     HBA      Tiote     Cabaye     Jonas

                    Ba
                              Cisse

Take Cissokho out the line up.

Still a decent first 11 though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:06:50 PM
So this looks like potential first choice for rest of the season, all fingers crossed? Assuming (and big assumption) that Cisse and Cissokho both are successfully signed and settle in that's a great lineup, 7th is the minimum that should achieve imo.

                          Krul

Santon   Williamson   Colo    Cissokho

     HBA      Tiote     Cabaye     Jonas

                    Ba
                              Cisse

Take Cissokho out the line up.

Still a decent first 11 though.

Decent? f*** off man :lol: Thats a quality 11!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Elliottman on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:08:19 PM
So this looks like potential first choice for rest of the season, all fingers crossed? Assuming (and big assumption) that Cisse and Cissokho both are successfully signed and settle in that's a great lineup, 7th is the minimum that should achieve imo.

                          Krul

Santon   Williamson   Colo    Cissokho

     HBA      Tiote     Cabaye     Jonas

                    Ba
                              Cisse

Take Cissokho out the line up.

Still a decent first 11 though.

Decent? f*** off man :lol: Thats a quality 11!

 :snod:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:12:09 PM
                           Krul

Simpson    Williamson     Colo     Santon

HBA          Cabaye         Tiote       Jonas
 
                Ba            Cisse


                                    Harper/Elliot

Perch                   Saylor                     Kadar                Raylor

Sammy/Obertan   Guthrie/Gosling    Abeid/Vuckic   Ferguson/Marv

                               Best                     Ameobi


Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Neil on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:13:20 PM
If we can seal the deal with Cisse and get another defender in, we'll be feared. :)

Wouldn't really use that term, but the key here is momentum.

You're improving and adding quality to an already more than decent team. I don't think opposition will go "I fear that team", but what they will think is they're going to have to play well to beat you, which is IMO a decent barometer of a good team. Looking a bit longer-term, get an upgrade on Simpson and Williamson (not sure if you meant a first-team defender in your post or backup), perhaps look to improve upon Jonas, then I'd say you have a top 4 challenging first XI.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:21:06 PM
                           Krul

Simpson    Williamson     Colo     Santon

HBA          Cabaye         Tiote       Jonas
 
                Ba            Cisse



Oh, I do love the look of that :smug:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: JH on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:22:12 PM
Simpson still sticks out like a sore f***ing thumb :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: jdckelly on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 07:26:15 PM
Simpson still sticks out like a sore f***ing thumb :lol:
have to give the rest a chance I suppose can't just run away with the league  :whistle:
Title: The Battle for 7th
Post by: morpeth mag on Tuesday 17 January 2012, 08:04:48 PM
        Krul
Santon. Williamson. Colo. Cissoko
           Cabaye.    Tiote
HBA.           Jonas.          Ba
                    Cisse
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TherealnorthernTOON on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:04:58 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: wormy on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:08:16 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

I always enjoyed watching our Uefa Cup adventures personally, no matter the s*** tv coverage, always looked foward to Thursday nights, and I always had that feeling we could pull it out of the bag, no matter how s*** our league form was, particularly in the Souness season. I'd hate us to have endured the past few years, finally get a shot at Europe again, and throw it away.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: TherealnorthernTOON on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:11:06 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

I always enjoyed watching our Uefa Cup adventures personally, no matter the s*** tv coverage, always looked foward to Thursday nights, and I always had that feeling we could pull it out of the bag, no matter how s*** our league form was, particularly in the Souness season. I'd hate us to have endured the past few years, finally get a shot at Europe again, and throw it away.

Still the europa league early games are all over the place. And it would take a serious toll on our players. We do have quite a few youngsters who justifiably do need games. Such as Vuckic, Sameobi even Obertan would do good playing against some lesser fullbacks in early stages to get some feeling of ripping them apart (if possible). But still would like to get far aswell. Tough decision imo.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:11:34 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

p*ssed off.

Aye its a chance to blood some of the younguns but a mix of them, fringe players and key players could see us go quite far in my opinion.

---Krul---
---Raylor---NEW CB---Williamson---Ferguson
Obertan---Vuckic/Abeid---Gosling---Marveaux
Shola---Best

Giving the likes of Colo, Taylor, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote, Jonas, Ben Arfa and the Demba's a rest. Off the bench if needed.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: AlanSkärare on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:11:53 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

It's a title that is probably easier to win than most titles in England, so I'd be very upset if we didn't go for it. Europe is always Europe, brings something completley different to supporting the club and brings back so many good memories. Just look at Fulham and the journey they made, I'd love for us to do well, even if it's only Europa League.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: VaVaVoom on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 02:12:49 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

It's a title that is probably easier to win than most titles in England, so I'd be very upset if we didn't go for it. Europe is always Europe, brings something completley different to supporting the club and brings back so many good memories. Just look at Fulham and the journey they made, I'd love for us to do well, even if it's only Europa League.

 O0
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sifu on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:25:12 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

Wouldn't be too happy tbh. I'm one of those people who likes us to have a proper go at the cup competitions like so I would play as close to a full strength team as possible. Of course, there is a fear of burnout for some players (if we continually start them in every game) but I do actually have some faith in our youth players to do a decent job.

I imagine our bench would consist of first teamers so you can always bring them on if necessary. In any case, if we do qualify for the Europa League, we'll need a much bigger squad than we have now.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: BlueStar on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:25:28 PM
With us playing Fulham and Arsenal up against Man U at the weekend, we've got a realistic chance of moving up to fifth.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:26:42 PM
With us playing Fulham and Arsenal up against Man U at the weekend, we've got a realistic chance of moving up to fifth.

If Man Utd batter Arsenal as heavily again, then yeah :razz: Fulham will be a very tough fixture IMO. Be happy if we can take a point!
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: optimistic nit on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:26:44 PM
just had the horrible thought that if liverpool beat city in the semi final of the carling cup then there is a large chance even 6th wont get us into europe.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Sima on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:26:56 PM
I'm not confident about getting anything at Fulham if I'm honest like.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: gggg on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:29:42 PM
This 7th place finish shows tremendous progress no doubt. But what would people feel like if we played youngsters and fringe players. And just got knocked out early in the europa league stages?

It would be f***ing stupid. What benefit would getting knocked out of Europe do? We'd have a better chance of qualifying for the same tournament and that's it, I'd rather have a good run in it and finish mid table.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Tiresias on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:30:16 PM
Europe could be an albatross around our neck next season, not saying shouldn't bother, but it'll be a struggle to balance it with the league, on the other hand do think it could be great fun as well, wouldn't say no and wouldn't treat it for blooding young players and go out early but reckon I'll treat it as a bonus if we get it more than anything. 5th would be great, but also very tough.
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roger Kint on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:32:39 PM
Nice edit Dave  :hmm: 

Edit: Now its completely gone  :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:32:58 PM
Huh?

:p
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Roger Kint on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 03:34:51 PM
Huh?

:p

 :huff:
Title: Re: The Battle for 7th
Post by: Turnbull2000 on Wednesday 18 January 2012, 04:02:24 PM
Would rather not be in the Europa turd next season only to get knocked out by a Champs League rejec