Newcastle-Online

Archives => Hall Of Fame => Topic started by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:25:08 PM

Title: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:25:08 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?



Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: a random player who doesn't even play for us any more on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:27:19 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?




It's possible yes but i think it'll take around 2 years to get to that stage.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:30:20 PM
It's possible, though not probable, in my opinion.

We're looking at having an almost totally new team next year, we're bound to encounter some teething problems. Spurs are vastly more settled throughout their squad and Arsenal, while after losing Henry, are still very strong.

Outside possibility I suppose, but I'll be surprised if we can dislodge both of those two.

Top 6 is more realistic.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Kev on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:32:39 PM
why should we finish above arsenal?
yes it would be great but Big Sam is only just starting to build his squad and will take at least 1 or 2 seasons
i think that question might not be able to be answered until a couple of seasons time
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: thewellander on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:35:29 PM
We'll get there, but let's not get too excited about the prospects for this year. Also, Deco has not signed. Until he does, I'm not factoring him in. As was said before, a top six finish is a reasonable expectation by looking what's on the table. But it's still so early.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:42:08 PM
Arsenal did quite well without Henry for most of last season (and RVP). Also depends on how well their new lad settles in.

I don't think they are on the slide that much. They are definitely out of challenging at the moment but they arent going to drop as quickly as some are expecting.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: LFEE on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:42:49 PM
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

Why not?





Simple... "If" is the biggest word in football
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: toontownman on Monday 9 July 2007, 08:46:48 PM
im not convinced.

Arsenal have taken a step back to go forward. Their current squad is full of potential that could break through at any moment. As we saw at parts last season, the team was unstoppable at times, this was without Henry near the team.

All the players from last season matured and will be looking to step it up further this year. The hopes we have for Taylor and the Zog, they have in a teams worth of youngsters. With the right direction they will be a match for anyone.

Da Silva is an unknown quantity, but expect Arsene to splash out on quality before the start of the season to sit alongside the blossoming talent they already have.

The defence is solid, the fluidity, skills and passing are sublime and they are only going to get better.

Fabregas isnt going anywhere this summer, the press have been talking up an arsenal implosion for the past three years, but they will come out fighting next season with a point to prove.

Whilst next season we can start the war to bridge the gap, Arsenal will win the battle. The difference between us and Arsenal is that we will try and buy world class players to bridge the gap, they are home growing them, its just a matter of time before they hit that level.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:04:09 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?



why not?

because for one, we're talking about Wenger, who everyone is always at pains to cream over

Henry was hardly in the team last year and they still grabbed 4th

You're talking about a defence that has never even played yet, the height of wishfull thinking
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: 22bnw on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:07:57 PM
Spurs are slightly ahead of us in their long-term building and if Arsenal don't improve much, I can see them finishing above Arsenal. Not us, yet.

Our squad is a long way off that standard, our foundations are barely there yet.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dan on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:08:07 PM
i wouldn't be surpised if wenger surprised a few people and they challenge for a bit this season. he usually gets it right when it comes to judging the right time to let a player leave. also wouldn't surprise me if henry's best years turn out to be the ones spent at arsenal.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: 22bnw on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:10:12 PM
Van Persie has been in Henry's shadow, I think he'll come out now, people say the lad is overrated but I think he is capable of anything Henry is/was
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:11:23 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?



why not?

because for one, we're talking about Wenger, who everyone is always at pains to cream over

Henry was hardly in the team last year and they still grabbed 4th

You're talking about a defence that has never even played yet, the height of wishfull thinking

:nods:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr. Snrub on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:12:45 PM
I've never heard anyone say RVP is over-rated.  It's pretty obvious he is a brilliant player.

No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:13:43 PM
I've never heard anyone say RVP is over-rated.  It's pretty obvious he is a brilliant player.

No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.

Didn't know he was gay either!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: 22bnw on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:14:56 PM
I've never heard anyone say RVP is over-rated.  It's pretty obvious he is a brilliant player.

No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.

I was speaking to some Arsenal fans last season, they thought he was massively overrated
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:18:19 PM
Van Persie has been in Henry's shadow, I think he'll come out now, people say the lad is overrated but I think he is capable of anything Henry is/was

I agree. Have been a huge fan of Van Persie since before he broke on the scene of Feyenoord's (my club in Holland) reserve team and he is getting better and better each season. There´s a good chance he will score over 20 goals for them this season if he can stay fit and their frontmen partnerships works well from the start.. To think he was sold to Arsenal for about 3 million just three seasons ago...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Guinness on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:19:10 PM
Don't see it myself. I think Arsenal will suprise a lot of people next season, presuming they keep hold of the likes of Fabregas they'll finish at least 4th IMO. Their squad is still young and last season they showed signs of real potential, some of their build up play was pure class and if Eduardo is the poacher everyone says he is then he could be just what they need. Our eventual aim has to be to break into the top four, but I think it will take a few seasons before we'll be able to get to that level.

The top 6 on the other hand is a different matter. From the top four down the league is wide open and with some more additions to the defence and the possible addition of Deco (although I still don't see that happening) thats what we should be aiming for next season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: 22bnw on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:23:15 PM
We want to be getting into Europe next season.

If we were to look to a top four team to try and finish above, it should be Liverpool. We could build a squad better than theirs in time and their youth players aren't quite at the standard of Arsenal's. But not yet.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ryunufc on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:34:30 PM
yes they finished 4th without henry for large part of the season, but this time can be different because he moved to barca. losing an influential player through injury can be different with losing him permanently. henry is more than an arsenal captain, he is like a mascot, it is still a blow. take for instance, man u to lose cantona or us to lose shearer. they will need a transition period to cope with life without him. beside, the other 18 teams now know how to deal with their style, not necessary stop them but make their life difficult with the 'physical approach'.
i think we have a good chance to finish above them, not because we are now much better but i think they are quite vulnerable to have a terrible season. this does not mean we can finish 4th, there are spurs and everton, which leaves us with top 6 still being a realistic, i if not ambitious target.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The Bonk on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:52:52 PM
I love the optimism of this thread, but I just don't see it as a reality.  Not yet, as I think it will take time for our squad to buy into Big Sam's
coaching and like previously mentioned, the squad will take time to settle. 

We should be aiming as high as possible, but what's first and foremost is to build the club's depth up like Liverpool have done while we were
on our slide.  Build the brand of NUFC so we can look as an attractive club as the big 4 to play for, it's the only way we'll be able to compete
with the big boys for years to come. 

I know we've long run out of patience to win something, but we can't slip further behind or we'll never catch up. 
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ohmelads on Monday 9 July 2007, 09:56:14 PM
I don't think Arsenal are in any crisis and my head tells me they'll finish top 4. They just finished level on points with Liverpool despite spending most of the season without Henry and Van Persie. Henry has been replaced and Van Persie is back and fresh. Their youth is that bid older and more experienced now, and I expect one or two to step up the way Eboue, Toure etc did before them. Diaby, Adebayor and Walcott should all improve and Van Persie was on fire before he got injured last season.

However, Gallas's quotes do suggest all is not rosy there and we've seen ourselves how a few bad eggs or poor morale in general in the dressing room can really disrupt a team's unity on the field. Heads go down a lot quicker and a glass half full becomes a glass half empty. They need a good start to the season to avoid that, they really do.

We only play the 'big four' a total of 8 times in the league. The rest of the season consists of 30 games. People often look at it negatively, assuming we have to be a better team than Arsenal to finish above them. In fact, we just need to be more consistent, picking up as many points as possible in those 30 games and trying to get whatever we can against those teams bigger than us. When Everton finished 4th and Liverpool 5th, Liverpool were clearly the better side, but failed to produce the points quite as consistently. When we finished 3rd under Bobby Robson 4 years ago, we were considered outside title contenders by the media until the last few weeks of the season. Clearly Man Utd and Arsenal were much better teams than us, but we just kept picking up the 'easier' points and focused only on ourselves. It's not about comparing us with Arsenal, it's about picking up more points than them against teams like Reading, Wigan, Derby, Boro, Villa etc, etc, etc.

A couple of good defenders and a real injection of quality like Deco, coupled with a bigger squad and a better manager, and maybe we'll be picking up the 'easier' points more consistently. As for Spurs, I don't think we're behind them at all, for a large part of last season they were distinctly average before making a charge, just as we did the season before finishing 7th. Also both Spurs and Arsenal have Europe to worry about, we don't, and that could make a significant difference when the fixtures are coming thick and fast and they're flying to Tblisi or wherever while we enjoy a midweek break.

I'm more worried about us, if we sort ourselves out we can pick up points regularly and let Spurs, Arsenal etc worry about themselves.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: hagler on Monday 9 July 2007, 10:20:44 PM



The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year,

i dont see liverpool catching up this year......i think they will have a real bad season.....we could catch them if the signings start coming as good as they have been...ive got the feeling were building a big squad with many options in many formations...........and no europe...which liverpool seem to go all out for theses days...if i were them i would get a pl champions trophy pretty quick them not having one in the last 16/17 years or whatever it is is not good for them...just my opinion
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: 22bnw on Monday 9 July 2007, 10:29:42 PM
Agreed
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Willow on Monday 9 July 2007, 10:47:24 PM
I think with every remaining player we sign now, our views and expectations will change.

This is why I'm loving this summers transfer window because with the whole the transfer fund uncertainty; we're being linked with the likes of Deco one week and an unknown player the next. I think most of us have been kept on our toes about whats happening next these past couple of months and so I'm going to remain tight lipped on my expectations until the day the window shuts.

I'm guessing theres quite a few twists and turns ahead and if we strengthen much further than I really believe we can make it into the top 6. Heres hoping eh blueyes.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Monday 9 July 2007, 10:58:44 PM
I think with every remaining player we sign now, our views and expectations will change.

This is why I'm loving this summers transfer window because with the whole the transfer fund uncertainty; we're being linked with the likes of Deco one week and an unknown player the next. I think most of us have been kept on our toes about whats happening next these past couple of months and so I'm going to remain tight lipped on my expectations until the day the window shuts.

I'm guessing theres quite a few twists and turns ahead and if we strengthen much further than I really believe we can make it into the top 6. Heres hoping eh blueyes.gif

Agree completely. Interesting close season still ahead. One thing is certain though, Allardyce is targetting players at varying price levels (free to VERY expensive, we will find) but we will not know how strong we will be for a while yet, but we will be much stronger (quality plus numbers) than last season, I feel.

Depending on what happens before end of transfer window, we can end up fighting for 3rd, or scrapping for bottom end of top six.

It is an exciting close season though - is it not?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: toontownman on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:01:46 PM
What makes it more crazy is the current state of the premiership.

Already this summer we have dramatically improved the squad and are on the way to possibly the best summers reshaping ever.

Yet even the likes of Deco wouldnt guarentee we are even that much closer to the top four.

Manure have spent a bomb
Arsenal have a bit of money to burn to the already exciting squad
Chelsea have added to the team and havent even spent yet...its coming.
Liverpool have brought in one of the most sort after strikers in Europe and are looking to cherry pick the best to theyre already solid team.
Spurs Bought Bent, Bale, will no doubt sign every up and coming talent in the world plus Messi,Ronaldo and God before the window ends.
 
Then we have the takeover club, Ourselves, Villa,pompey, West Ham and Man city all determined to make a statement and imprint to take the teams forward.

I think we could take four steps forward this summer but it would only relate to one with whats going on around us in the premiership. Mad close season, and im really hyped about what the new season will bring.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:10:05 PM
What makes it more crazy is the current state of the premiership.

Already this summer we have dramatically improved the squad and are on the way to possibly the best summers reshaping ever.

Yet even the likes of Deco wouldnt guarentee we are even that much closer to the top four.

Manure have spent a bomb
Arsenal have a bit of money to burn to the already exciting squad
Chelsea have added to the team and havent even spent yet...its coming.
Liverpool have brought in one of the most sort after strikers in Europe and are looking to cherry pick the best to theyre already solid team.
Spurs Bought Bent, Bale, will no doubt sign every up and coming talent in the world plus Messi,Ronaldo and God before the window ends.
 
Then we have the takeover club, Ourselves, Villa,pompey, West Ham and Man city all determined to make a statement and imprint to take the teams forward.

I think we could take four steps forward this summer but it would only relate to one with whats going on around us in the premiership. Mad close season, and im really hyped about what the new season will bring.


I think we are making "dramatic" improvements, that will be more noticeable on the field than any of the other clubs. With Michael Owen, added to Allardyces organisation and a much stronger (I'm sure) defence, our other good players (Emre, Dyer, Zoggy, etc) will be able to perform so much better (in front of the more solid defence, more 'time' on the attack, etc). In addition to any new players we purchase (or have already purchased) I think we will effectively be getting "25% more" (say) from many others we already had, if you know what I mean!

Like buying lots of new 'quarters of' players!!

It all adds up to a radical improvement - and we don't even know the details of players-still-to-come yet!

This is SO much better than for years  -  just have to watch I don't get carried away  -  but I think I am being logical and analytical about this (?)

To sum up  -  I think we ARE closing the gap!!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:11:09 PM
I love the optimism of this thread, but I just don't see it as a reality.  Not yet, as I think it will take time for our squad to buy into Big Sam's
coaching and like previously mentioned, the squad will take time to settle. 

We should be aiming as high as possible, but what's first and foremost is to build the club's depth up like Liverpool have done while we were
on our slide.  Build the brand of NUFC so we can look as an attractive club as the big 4 to play for, it's the only way we'll be able to compete
with the big boys for years to come. 

I know we've long run out of patience to win something, but we can't slip further behind or we'll never catch up. 


WHAT OPTIMISM!  All the nodding dogs have fallen into line. HIT THE NORTH!!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:12:45 PM
I don't think Arsenal are in any crisis and my head tells me they'll finish top 4. They just finished level on points with Liverpool despite spending most of the season without Henry and Van Persie. Henry has been replaced and Van Persie is back and fresh. Their youth is that bid older and more experienced now, and I expect one or two to step up the way Eboue, Toure etc did before them. Diaby, Adebayor and Walcott should all improve and Van Persie was on fire before he got injured last season.

However, Gallas's quotes do suggest all is not rosy there and we've seen ourselves how a few bad eggs or poor morale in general in the dressing room can really disrupt a team's unity on the field. Heads go down a lot quicker and a glass half full becomes a glass half empty. They need a good start to the season to avoid that, they really do.

We only play the 'big four' a total of 8 times in the league. The rest of the season consists of 30 games. People often look at it negatively, assuming we have to be a better team than Arsenal to finish above them. In fact, we just need to be more consistent, picking up as many points as possible in those 30 games and trying to get whatever we can against those teams bigger than us. When Everton finished 4th and Liverpool 5th, Liverpool were clearly the better side, but failed to produce the points quite as consistently. When we finished 3rd under Bobby Robson 4 years ago, we were considered outside title contenders by the media until the last few weeks of the season. Clearly Man Utd and Arsenal were much better teams than us, but we just kept picking up the 'easier' points and focused only on ourselves. It's not about comparing us with Arsenal, it's about picking up more points than them against teams like Reading, Wigan, Derby, Boro, Villa etc, etc, etc.

A couple of good defenders and a real injection of quality like Deco, coupled with a bigger squad and a better manager, and maybe we'll be picking up the 'easier' points more consistently. As for Spurs, I don't think we're behind them at all, for a large part of last season they were distinctly average before making a charge, just as we did the season before finishing 7th. Also both Spurs and Arsenal have Europe to worry about, we don't, and that could make a significant difference when the fixtures are coming thick and fast and they're flying to Tblisi or wherever while we enjoy a midweek break.

I'm more worried about us, if we sort ourselves out we can pick up points regularly and let Spurs, Arsenal etc worry about themselves.


Best reply to the proposition so far.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: hagler on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:12:50 PM
when you look at it....its almost like theres not enough good buys / players, around for us and the other clubs that are going through a revival.       


down to the managers now.......and sam aint doing that bad
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:13:06 PM
I actually think we'll finish higher next season than we will the year after. Think there's a wave of optimism about at the moment that will really push us far.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:14:13 PM
I think with every remaining player we sign now, our views and expectations will change.

This is why I'm loving this summers transfer window because with the whole the transfer fund uncertainty; we're being linked with the likes of Deco one week and an unknown player the next. I think most of us have been kept on our toes about whats happening next these past couple of months and so I'm going to remain tight lipped on my expectations until the day the window shuts.

I'm guessing theres quite a few twists and turns ahead and if we strengthen much further than I really believe we can make it into the top 6. Heres hoping eh blueyes.gif

Agree completely. Interesting close season still ahead. One thing is certain though, Allardyce is targetting players at varying price levels (free to VERY expensive, we will find) but we will not know how strong we will be for a while yet, but we will be much stronger (quality plus numbers) than last season, I feel.

Depending on what happens before end of transfer window, we can end up fighting for 3rd, or scrapping for bottom end of top six.

It is an exciting close season though - is it not?


Quality post obviously one who thinks for himself.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:15:44 PM
What makes it more crazy is the current state of the premiership.

Already this summer we have dramatically improved the squad and are on the way to possibly the best summers reshaping ever.

Yet even the likes of Deco wouldnt guarentee we are even that much closer to the top four.

Manure have spent a bomb
Arsenal have a bit of money to burn to the already exciting squad
Chelsea have added to the team and havent even spent yet...its coming.
Liverpool have brought in one of the most sort after strikers in Europe and are looking to cherry pick the best to theyre already solid team.
Spurs Bought Bent, Bale, will no doubt sign every up and coming talent in the world plus Messi,Ronaldo and God before the window ends.
 
Then we have the takeover club, Ourselves, Villa,pompey, West Ham and Man city all determined to make a statement and imprint to take the teams forward.

I think we could take four steps forward this summer but it would only relate to one with whats going on around us in the premiership. Mad close season, and im really hyped about what the new season will bring.



Tbh the Spurs buys are mediocre, nothing like the imagination and savvy Sam has shown.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:17:28 PM
Half the problem with the supporter base is that it has grown used to mediocrity and is apprehensive on the whole about the revival.



Fear is half the fear.  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:20:05 PM
i wouldn't be surpised if wenger surprised a few people and they challenge for a bit this season. he usually gets it right when it comes to judging the right time to let a player leave. also wouldn't surprise me if henry's best years turn out to be the ones spent at arsenal.


He gets nothing right anymore he's finished. Arc of interest. Setting of sun. Leaving of mascot....Grampus 8/ Monaco got lucky...2 good buys from average manager.


Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:20:34 PM
I just need to see what Ashley actually does this summer. We havent really done anything yet we werent going to do anyway under Allardyce, although the takeover could have been persuasive on the last 2 signings. If we move in the next couple of weeks then the answer to this may be clearer.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:20:42 PM
I don't think Arsenal are in any crisis and my head tells me they'll finish top 4. They just finished level on points with Liverpool despite spending most of the season without Henry and Van Persie. Henry has been replaced and Van Persie is back and fresh. Their youth is that bid older and more experienced now, and I expect one or two to step up the way Eboue, Toure etc did before them. Diaby, Adebayor and Walcott should all improve and Van Persie was on fire before he got injured last season.

However, Gallas's quotes do suggest all is not rosy there and we've seen ourselves how a few bad eggs or poor morale in general in the dressing room can really disrupt a team's unity on the field. Heads go down a lot quicker and a glass half full becomes a glass half empty. They need a good start to the season to avoid that, they really do.

We only play the 'big four' a total of 8 times in the league. The rest of the season consists of 30 games. People often look at it negatively, assuming we have to be a better team than Arsenal to finish above them. In fact, we just need to be more consistent, picking up as many points as possible in those 30 games and trying to get whatever we can against those teams bigger than us. When Everton finished 4th and Liverpool 5th, Liverpool were clearly the better side, but failed to produce the points quite as consistently. When we finished 3rd under Bobby Robson 4 years ago, we were considered outside title contenders by the media until the last few weeks of the season. Clearly Man Utd and Arsenal were much better teams than us, but we just kept picking up the 'easier' points and focused only on ourselves. It's not about comparing us with Arsenal, it's about picking up more points than them against teams like Reading, Wigan, Derby, Boro, Villa etc, etc, etc.

A couple of good defenders and a real injection of quality like Deco, coupled with a bigger squad and a better manager, and maybe we'll be picking up the 'easier' points more consistently. As for Spurs, I don't think we're behind them at all, for a large part of last season they were distinctly average before making a charge, just as we did the season before finishing 7th. Also both Spurs and Arsenal have Europe to worry about, we don't, and that could make a significant difference when the fixtures are coming thick and fast and they're flying to Tblisi or wherever while we enjoy a midweek break.

I'm more worried about us, if we sort ourselves out we can pick up points regularly and let Spurs, Arsenal etc worry about themselves.


Best reply to the proposition so far.

That's a spot on post. Hearts didn't nearly win the SPL two seasons ago because they were better than Celtic & Rangers, they were just miles better than the rest of the pack, capable of beating Rangers & Celtic on a good day.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Rey Mysterio on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:25:05 PM
Arsenal play some cracking football and create numerous chances, especially at home. All they've been lacking is a natural finisher to stick them all away and i believe in Eduardo Da Silva, they have found their man. I haven't made him captain of my new premierleague.com fantasy football team for nothing!  :shifty:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:25:42 PM
I just need to see what Ashley actually does this summer. We havent really done anything yet we werent going to do anyway under Allardyce, although the takeover could have been persuasive on the last 2 signings. If we move in the next couple of weeks then the answer to this may be clearer.

Don't f*** about Chez you know as well as I do everything is ON!!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:26:24 PM
Half the problem with the supporter base is that it has grown used to mediocrity and is apprehensive on the whole about the revival.



Fear is half the fear.  :cheesy:

Something that often gets to me (and I write about it on here) is the sense of 'inferiority' that shines out in some of the unbelieving and consequently 'negative' comments on here.  These feelings are somewhat understandable, in the younger/newer supporter, particularly.

But, we are entering into a completely different and new era, and hopefully people will soon be able to shake off these feelings of inferiority. It can be done, without going 'too far' the other way. There is still a lot of work to be done - just believe that it WILL be done!

I strongly feel the same sense of "a new world" that we are in, in the same way that I felt it when we won the battle against McKeag in the early 90s.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:26:48 PM
Arsenal play some cracking football and create numerous chances, especially at home. All they've been lacking is a natural finisher to stick them all away and i believe in Eduardo Da Silva, they have found their man. I haven't made him captain of my new premierleague.com fantasy football team for nothing!  :shifty:


The old 'stick it away' lark.


Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:27:35 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:28:47 PM
Half the problem with the supporter base is that it has grown used to mediocrity and is apprehensive on the whole about the revival.



Fear is half the fear.  :cheesy:

Something that often gets to me (and I write about it on here) is the sense of 'inferiority' that shines out in some of the unbelieving and consequently 'negative' comments on here.  These feelings are somewhat understandable, in the younger/newer supporter, particularly.

But, we are entering into a completely different and new era, and hopefully people will soon be able to shake off these feelings of inferiority. It can be done, without going 'too far' the other way. There is still a lot of work to be done - just believe that it WILL be done!

I strongly feel the same sense of "a new world" that we are in, in the same way that I felt it when we won the battle against McKeag in the early 90s.



Get in Manorpark!! Feel the power!!  :thup:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:29:37 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

Was he purchased by the walking god Wenger?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:29:45 PM
Half the problem with the supporter base is that it has grown used to mediocrity and is apprehensive on the whole about the revival.



Fear is half the fear.  :cheesy:

Something that often gets to me (and I write about it on here) is the sense of 'inferiority' that shines out in some of the unbelieving and consequently 'negative' comments on here.  These feelings are somewhat understandable, in the younger/newer supporter, particularly.

But, we are entering into a completely different and new era, and hopefully people will soon be able to shake off these feelings of inferiority. It can be done, without going 'too far' the other way. There is still a lot of work to be done - just believe that it WILL be done!

I strongly feel the same sense of "a new world" that we are in, in the same way that I felt it when we won the battle against McKeag in the early 90s.



Get in Manorpark!! Feel the power!!  :thup:

I am trying . . .  so I'm told!!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:31:05 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

Was he purchased by the walking god Wenger?

He was indeedy. Along with his other bargain basement strikers such as Suker (9m?), Wiltord (£11m) & Reyes (£13m).
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:32:02 PM
I just need to see what Ashley actually does this summer. We havent really done anything yet we werent going to do anyway under Allardyce, although the takeover could have been persuasive on the last 2 signings. If we move in the next couple of weeks then the answer to this may be clearer.

Don't f*** about Chez you know as well as I do everything is ON!!

Its not that clear though yet. I just want to see the first signing that the club could not have made without Ashley. So far, we have done everything that we could have done anyway.

I feel the changes in the direction of the wind.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:34:23 PM
I just need to see what Ashley actually does this summer. We havent really done anything yet we werent going to do anyway under Allardyce, although the takeover could have been persuasive on the last 2 signings. If we move in the next couple of weeks then the answer to this may be clearer.

Don't f*** about Chez you know as well as I do everything is ON!!

Its not that clear though yet. I just want to see the first signing that the club could not have made without Ashley. So far, we have done everything that we could have done anyway.

I feel the changes in the direction of the wind.


It is people like you Chez that feel the kiss of destiny.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Rey Mysterio on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:35:18 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

They did. The difference was, he's pants.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:35:20 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

Was he purchased by the walking god Wenger?

He was indeedy. Along with his other bargain basement strikers such as Suker (9m?), Wiltord (£11m) & Reyes (£13m).


Stop it I'm ganna wet my knickers. mackems.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:37:06 PM
Let's get real for a minute. On paper we have a better strike force and a  better keeper as things stand. The playing field is levelling as we speak.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: toontownman on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:38:30 PM
What makes it more crazy is the current state of the premiership.

Already this summer we have dramatically improved the squad and are on the way to possibly the best summers reshaping ever.

Yet even the likes of Deco wouldnt guarentee we are even that much closer to the top four.

Manure have spent a bomb
Arsenal have a bit of money to burn to the already exciting squad
Chelsea have added to the team and havent even spent yet...its coming.
Liverpool have brought in one of the most sort after strikers in Europe and are looking to cherry pick the best to theyre already solid team.
Spurs Bought Bent, Bale, will no doubt sign every up and coming talent in the world plus Messi,Ronaldo and God before the window ends.
 
Then we have the takeover club, Ourselves, Villa,pompey, West Ham and Man city all determined to make a statement and imprint to take the teams forward.

I think we could take four steps forward this summer but it would only relate to one with whats going on around us in the premiership. Mad close season, and im really hyped about what the new season will bring.



Tbh the Spurs buys are mediocre, nothing like the imagination and savvy Sam has shown.

I know what you mean and agree. Spurs have a solid enough basis to build upon with class players now. Id hope we will be back competing with Spurs by the end of the season.

Imaginative and savvy signings is a bit much though. The signings so far would have been predictable regardless of who was in charge. The hype surrounding Rozehnal is a bit much considering the majority of the board had never heard about him a month ago.

Optimism is a good thing though, and all too uncommon on here last season, where bitching, negativity and sceptacism could have barely got lower.

It will obviously take as much time as the team settling, for us to get our heads around all that has/is happening at the club.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:39:26 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

Was he purchased by the walking god Wenger?

He was indeedy. Along with his other bargain basement strikers such as Suker (9m?), Wiltord (£11m) & Reyes (£13m).

No way was Suker that much surely?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: a random player who doesn't even play for us any more on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:40:30 PM
They tried that with "fox in the box" Jeffers didn't they?

Was he purchased by the walking god Wenger?

He was indeedy. Along with his other bargain basement strikers such as Suker (9m?), Wiltord (£11m) & Reyes (£13m).

No way was Suker that much surely?
West Ham have completed the signing of Davor Suker from Arsenal on a free transfer.

The 32-year-old Croatian international striker has signed a two-year deal with the Hammers.

Sukur joined Arsenal from Real Madrid for £3.5m last summer and scored 11 goals in 39 appearances, 24 of which were as a substitute.

But his chances of first team action diminished once Thierry Henry settled at Highbury and a move to Upton Park has been talked off since the turn of the year.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 9 July 2007, 11:57:36 PM
Google to the rescue!!

 Yet, of Wenger’s 50 or so buys, there are failures aplenty. Sylvain Wiltord, a £13 million capture from Bordeaux in 2000, scored 49 goals in four years. When he left Highbury for nothing, he was not exactly a wanted man – until yesterday. Police in France arrested him when he turned up for preseason training with Lyons because he had failed to appear in court on speeding charges.

— Luis Boa Morte, the Portugal winger, mostly flattered, while Christopher Wreh, the Liberian, and Kaba Diawara, from Guinea, barely registered. And can anyone recall Eric Chukwunyelu Obinna or Tomas Danilevicious?

— José Antonio Reyes, the Spain winger, soon became homesick, after signing from Seville for £10.5 million in January 2004, and spent last season on loan with Real Madrid. And what about Francis Jeffers, the much-lauded “Fox in the Box” who cost £8 million from Everton six years ago? Not such a cunning signing that one, Arsène.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/arsenal/article2017583.ece
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:05:55 AM
Wenger is a brilliant manager, only a fool would suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ohmelads on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:29:30 AM
Wenger has made mistakes in the transfer market like every manager in the game. The difference with him is, when he gets it right, he gets a world class player for a brilliant price. I'd go so far as to say that, in relation to their fee and their worth thereafter, Henry, Vieira and Toure were possibly the 3 best signings in the history of the Premiership.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:38:54 AM
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2750470.ece
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Willow on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:46:33 AM
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2750470.ece
They can f*** right off :angry5:


How hard would it be to offer him an new, say, 80-90k contract with no clauses (or at least reworked clauses) ?

This is what we need to do right now imo, to put this situation to rest.

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Gash? on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:50:17 AM
Biasedly and Unbiasedly i think no team will break the top four next season
I think Arsene will replace Henry has he did Vieira

Dudu could be this man, albeit slightly more than Cesc Fabregas who was aquired for free

Although i do think that if Arsenal dont spend more money in the future, where other clubs (not just the top 4) are, Arsenal could fall back
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:51:36 AM
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2750470.ece
They can f*** right off :angry5:


How hard would it be to offer him an new, say, 80-90k contract with no clauses (or at least reworked clauses) ?

This is what we need to do right now imo, to put this situation to rest.



If it means Gudjohnsen coming in though?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:52:31 AM
Biasedly and Unbiasedly i think no team will break the top four next season
I think Arsene will replace Henry has he did Vieira

Dudu could be this man, albeit slightly more than Cesc Fabregas who was aquired for free

Although i do think that if Arsenal dont spend more money in the future, where other clubs (not just the top 4) are, Arsenal could fall back

 :lol: Shut up.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Willow on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:54:11 AM
No, I much prefer Oba. His has big future ahead of him and I'd hate to see him at Arsenal, scoring goals against us. I'd feel sick to my stomach... :(
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pantu on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:54:46 AM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Baggio on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:58:30 AM
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2750470.ece
They can f*** right off :angry5:


How hard would it be to offer him an new, say, 80-90k contract with no clauses (or at least reworked clauses) ?

This is what we need to do right now imo, to put this situation to rest.



If it means Gudjohnsen coming in though?

We'll have the slowest strike force in the Premiership?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:59:19 AM
No, I much prefer Oba. His has big future ahead of him and I'd hate to see him at Arsenal, scoring goals against us. I'd feel sick to my stomach... :(

He might adapt to the top left in a 433, he might not though. It would be a shame but i could handle him leaving if he was replaced by proven quality.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:00:41 AM
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article2750470.ece
They can f*** right off :angry5:


How hard would it be to offer him an new, say, 80-90k contract with no clauses (or at least reworked clauses) ?

This is what we need to do right now imo, to put this situation to rest.



If it means Gudjohnsen coming in though?

We'll have the slowest strike force in the Premiership?

Well thats those clauses for you  :(
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:01:46 AM
Google to the rescue!!

 Yet, of Wenger’s 50 or so buys, there are failures aplenty. Sylvain Wiltord, a £13 million capture from Bordeaux in 2000, scored 49 goals in four years. When he left Highbury for nothing, he was not exactly a wanted man – until yesterday. Police in France arrested him when he turned up for preseason training with Lyons because he had failed to appear in court on speeding charges.

— Luis Boa Morte, the Portugal winger, mostly flattered, while Christopher Wreh, the Liberian, and Kaba Diawara, from Guinea, barely registered. And can anyone recall Eric Chukwunyelu Obinna or Tomas Danilevicious?

— José Antonio Reyes, the Spain winger, soon became homesick, after signing from Seville for £10.5 million in January 2004, and spent last season on loan with Real Madrid. And what about Francis Jeffers, the much-lauded “Fox in the Box” who cost £8 million from Everton six years ago? Not such a cunning signing that one, Arsène.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/arsenal/article2017583.ece


you don't know much about the new Messiah do you parklife?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Pongle on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:02:08 AM
Biasedly and Unbiasedly i think no team will break the top four next season
I think Arsene will replace Henry has he did Vieira

Dudu could be this man, albeit slightly more than Cesc Fabregas who was aquired for free

Although i do think that if Arsenal dont spend more money in the future, where other clubs (not just the top 4) are, Arsenal could fall back

Schuster could very well make Fabregas his first signing - seriously weaken your side.

Lovely.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: dcmk on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:10:09 AM
Bolton nearly broke into top 4

why can't we?
better strikeforce than bolton.
better goalkeeper.
..by then hopefully better defense
and arguably a better midfield.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:14:37 AM
arseanl could well be f***ed, but not for the reasons stated. I forsee a player revolt if Arsene does not sign, with the ensuing press distration. All this year you will hear more and more players making comments about it, with plenty unwilling to renew contracts. I predict a Villa style player showdown by January.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Pongle on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:17:21 AM
Bolton nearly broke into top 4

why can't we?
better strikeforce than bolton.
better goalkeeper.
..by then hopefully better defense
and arguably a better midfield.

Our manager is also better than Bolton's manager last season
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 09:59:05 AM
Wenger is a brilliant manager, only a fool would suggest otherwise.

Just pointing out that atm he is vulernable as are Arsenal. Look behind the curtain.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 10:02:49 AM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 10:04:50 AM
Google to the rescue!!

 Yet, of Wenger?s 50 or so buys, there are failures aplenty. Sylvain Wiltord, a £13 million capture from Bordeaux in 2000, scored 49 goals in four years. When he left Highbury for nothing, he was not exactly a wanted man ? until yesterday. Police in France arrested him when he turned up for preseason training with Lyons because he had failed to appear in court on speeding charges.

? Luis Boa Morte, the Portugal winger, mostly flattered, while Christopher Wreh, the Liberian, and Kaba Diawara, from Guinea, barely registered. And can anyone recall Eric Chukwunyelu Obinna or Tomas Danilevicious?

? José Antonio Reyes, the Spain winger, soon became homesick, after signing from Seville for £10.5 million in January 2004, and spent last season on loan with Real Madrid. And what about Francis Jeffers, the much-lauded ?Fox in the Box? who cost £8 million from Everton six years ago? Not such a cunning signing that one, Arsène.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/arsenal/article2017583.ece


you don't know much about the new Messiah do you parklife?


Big Sam does his own supermarket sweep, I'm aware of that. However he isn't a recognised saint a al Wenger.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 10:06:33 AM
arseanl could well be f***ed, but not for the reasons stated. I forsee a player revolt if Arsene does not sign, with the ensuing press distration. All this year you will hear more and more players making comments about it, with plenty unwilling to renew contracts. I predict a Villa style player showdown by January.


Yes Vic the players aren't happy as I stated in the opening post with the Gallas example.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pantu on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 11:32:00 AM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.

I didn't say decades, I said 'some time'. And i didn't say we had to be taught how to pass and move, we have to adjust to a different manager and 'different style'. totally missing the point of what I was saying tbh
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 11:34:57 AM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.

I didn't say decades, I said 'some time'. And i didn't say we had to be taught how to pass and move, we have to adjust to a different manager and 'different style'. totally missing the point of what I was saying tbh


"In a certain style"?

ie Pass and move?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pantu on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 11:43:05 AM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.

I didn't say decades, I said 'some time'. And i didn't say we had to be taught how to pass and move, we have to adjust to a different manager and 'different style'. totally missing the point of what I was saying tbh


"In a certain style"?

ie Pass and move?

Yes, pass and move, but incredibly well and on a par only with Manchester United in the standard that they do it. Ok I can see your point but do you not think we'll be playing a pretty different style next season? I'm not saying that we won't do well and that there is a possibility we can finish above them, I just think there's a decent chance we could start slowly due to the massive changes in our starting line up and type of football come the start of the season. Arsenal could well implode but they've been in enough dodgy situations before and come out of them pretty well and I personally don't see this being too different.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:07:58 PM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.

I didn't say decades, I said 'some time'. And i didn't say we had to be taught how to pass and move, we have to adjust to a different manager and 'different style'. totally missing the point of what I was saying tbh


"In a certain style"?

ie Pass and move?

Yes, pass and move, but incredibly well and on a par only with Manchester United in the standard that they do it. Ok I can see your point but do you not think we'll be playing a pretty different style next season? I'm not saying that we won't do well and that there is a possibility we can finish above them, I just think there's a decent chance we could start slowly due to the massive changes in our starting line up and type of football come the start of the season. Arsenal could well implode but they've been in enough dodgy situations before and come out of them pretty well and I personally don't see this being too different.


Fair points. But you forget Arsenal too will have 4/5 players comepletely new to the PL and I don't care how they spin it Wenger is psychologically at his weakest for a long time.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pantu on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:14:50 PM
People might, justifiably, slag off some of Wenger's signings, but the fact is he's had Arsenal playing in a certain style for a decade now whereas we're at the very beginning of a completely new era and what will probably be a totally different style under Allardyce (as in 'a' style, rather than the hopeless 'tactics' churned out by the previos two). Regardless of which signings come in, the transition between the s**** served up last season and the football we hope we'll be playing this season will, imo, surely take some time and I think that people are suggesting we could finish above Arsenal next season is pretty optimistic. Arsenal are still a very good team with a brilliant manager, if we finish 2 or 3 places below them next season it'll mean we'll have had a good season imo.


Footballers have to be taught how to pass and move? Gosh? That kind of trickery will take decades to learn.

I didn't say decades, I said 'some time'. And i didn't say we had to be taught how to pass and move, we have to adjust to a different manager and 'different style'. totally missing the point of what I was saying tbh


"In a certain style"?

ie Pass and move?

Yes, pass and move, but incredibly well and on a par only with Manchester United in the standard that they do it. Ok I can see your point but do you not think we'll be playing a pretty different style next season? I'm not saying that we won't do well and that there is a possibility we can finish above them, I just think there's a decent chance we could start slowly due to the massive changes in our starting line up and type of football come the start of the season. Arsenal could well implode but they've been in enough dodgy situations before and come out of them pretty well and I personally don't see this being too different.


Fair points. But you forget Arsenal too will have 4/5 players comepletely new to the PL and I don't care how they spin it Wenger is psychologically at his weakest for a long time.

Yep, fair enough. I think the biggest factor is whether Fabregas stays or goes, if he ends up at Real then I think they're in trouble but until that happens I think they'll be ok, almost certainly top 4. It's probably the most precarious pre-season Wenger's had to deal with.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Pongle on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:23:56 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:26:39 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:31:23 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: manorpark on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:37:20 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?

Yeah, my comment was a bit flippant, they do have more/better players than us (at the moment . . .  ).

Allardyce v Wenger it is, then.

We could go into a lot of detail, but I will just say one thing. "They are both obviously very talented managers, Allardyce is certainly on-the-up, having only just come to a big (rich) club, while Wenger 'may' (having done so well already) have his BEST years behind him . . . .  past performance is no guarantee of the future, as they say!"

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 12:52:11 PM
Allardyce is tearing it up all right. 8 years at Bolton and them BAM! he hits the big time :lol:

ps. at Fat Sam's current age, Wenger had already been in charge of Arsenal for 6 years
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:28:16 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?


Their team is so good they think they need Oba.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 01:35:11 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?


Their team is so good they think they need Oba.

and zogbia
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 03:19:18 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?


Their team is so good they think they need Oba.

and zogbia

Wow, a few of our players could be squad players at Arsenal!  :frantic:

You're not seriously suggesting we have a better squad than them, are you Parky?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 03:20:51 PM
Two reasons why we might not finish above Arsenal are that they have a better manager and better players.

In your opinion.

Hard to disagree with. They have three or four players who are at a completely different level to our own (Owen exluded if he regains his form from a couple of seasons ago) and I guess we don't seriously have to go into a Wenger vs Allardyce debate, do we?


Their team is so good they think they need Oba.

and zogbia

Wow, a few of our players could be squad players at Arsenal!  :frantic:

You're not seriously suggesting we have a better squad than them, are you Parky?

It is not about players and ultimately it isn't about managers, it is really about belief.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: toontownman on Tuesday 10 July 2007, 03:29:46 PM
Thank God we have Shola "Im King of the world" Ameobi then.

He can show our lads a thing or two.

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 11 July 2007, 09:33:11 PM
....Lunndjberk is of to Spain or somewhere..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Invicta_Toon on Wednesday 11 July 2007, 09:34:07 PM
Fiorentina muppet
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 11 July 2007, 09:35:21 PM
Fiorentina muppet

Silly name for a club shirley? :cheesy:


Yes it's fiorentina.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Rob W on Thursday 12 July 2007, 01:35:01 PM
we're currenly around 14th on beeb website - they've ranked us alphabetically

I'll settle for owt better than that TBH
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: olliemort on Sunday 15 July 2007, 07:10:16 PM
well they struggled without henry last season and now hes sold!Just remains to be seen if his replacement De la Silva whom they spent all the Henry money on will be half as gd as Henry and also Wenger hasn said if hes staying yet!I honestly think Newcastle will finish higher but i think Spurs will be r main rival for 4th spot!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: macbeth on Sunday 15 July 2007, 07:45:31 PM
Mad optimism  :coolsmiley:

Arsenal got 25 points more than us last season, despie Henry missing 22 league games. They only managed 2 points off us. They have a second team capable of reaching the League Cup final on merit.

We have got rid of poor defenders who started 41 games between them. We have replaced them with Geremi who we'd not even have noticed if he'd gone to say Villa. We've signed one centre-half (to replace three in Bramble, Moore and Gooch) who should be good, but none of us ever seen play. Our defence is paper thing. We look good with forwards but we can only play two of them.

The great-to-see optimism is too reminiscent of 88 for me. Bring in great goalie, good centre-half, excellent winger and an exciting goalscoring centre-forward, while only losing one good player. Looked great. For 44 seconds



Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Immsy7 on Sunday 15 July 2007, 07:47:47 PM
They struggled without Henry and finished 4th???

I don't call that struggling tbh. Yes it was a bad season for them, but if we are comparing them to us, they did fantastic considering they had there best player, top assists, top goal scorer missing for a lot of the season and still finish top 4. . . .
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Atticus on Sunday 15 July 2007, 07:52:06 PM
In fairness, we were without Owen for even more of the campaign... and we had Glenn Roeder as the manager... not to mention suffering loads of other ball-aching injuries as well.

Not sure if using last-term as a measuring stick is entirely sensible when talking about next season, when you take into account how much has changed at both clubs since May.

I tend to agree that it's very optimistic thinking to say we'll finish above them next term (although Parky did only say "pretty good chance"), but saying we won't because they got 25 points more than us last season means absolutely nowt.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:10:36 PM
In fairness, we were without Owen for even more of the campaign... and we had Glenn Roeder as the manager... not to mention suffering loads of other ball-aching injuries as well.

Not sure if using last-term as a measuring stick is entirely sensible when talking about next season, when you take into account how much has changed at both clubs since May.

I tend to agree that it's very optimistic thinking to say we'll finish above them next term (although Parky did only say "pretty good chance"), but saying we won't because they got 25 points more than us last season means absolutely nowt.

You honestly think the fact that Arsenal finished the season just ended 25 (!) points ahead of us is not a valid argument for saying we won't finish above Arsenal the season that hasn't even started..???!!! By that reasoning Wigan fans may think they have a pretty good chance of getting in the Champions League..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Teasy on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:14:33 PM
I don't know about finishing above Arsenal next season.  With a much better manager, new players (with at least a few more to come) and no major injury problems then yeah its possible.  But definitely not something I would call a good chance, not at the moment anyway.

What I will say though is that Arsenal's injuries last season weren't even worth mentioning in comparison to ours..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:29:47 PM
They´ve not had as many injuries as us, but they have been hit by injuries harder than their top 4 competitors, with Thierry Henry, Robin van Persie, William Gallas, Abou Diaby, Tomas Rosicky, Freddie Ljungberg and Theo Walcott all out for serious parts of the seasons. If they wouldn´t have, the gap might have been 35 points or more. There is no way our injuries have cost us that much, and even if you think they did, what makes you believe we won´t have any this coming season. I know Allardyce is renowned for keeping players fit, but he can´t make some of our very injury prone players less injury prone.. Would you be surprised if Owen, Dyer, Carr, Babayaro, Ameobi et al were out for serious amounts of time next season for example?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: microbar on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:36:19 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?





No chance sorry but we wont have anything like a team untill at least 08/09
Dont foreget we have been in the dark ages with things like sports science training diet, etc
for years now sam is going to need time to drag us  kicking  and Screaming into the new era,
have patience there is a lot of work to do.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Atticus on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:51:03 PM
In fairness, we were without Owen for even more of the campaign... and we had Glenn Roeder as the manager... not to mention suffering loads of other ball-aching injuries as well.

Not sure if using last-term as a measuring stick is entirely sensible when talking about next season, when you take into account how much has changed at both clubs since May.

I tend to agree that it's very optimistic thinking to say we'll finish above them next term (although Parky did only say "pretty good chance"), but saying we won't because they got 25 points more than us last season means absolutely nowt.

You honestly think the fact that Arsenal finished the season just ended 25 (!) points ahead of us is not a valid argument for saying we won't finish above Arsenal the season that hasn't even started..???!!! By that reasoning Wigan fans may think they have a pretty good chance of getting in the Champions League..

Yes I honestly do. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to post it, would I? Dear me.

How can anyone say we categorically will not finish above Arsenal next season, though? Especially using last season as their main argument when the circumstances were completely different? Since last season we've seen arguably the biggest changes in this club's history while Arsenal have also had some major issues to contend with. Now not saying these changes are positive or negative either way - time will tell us that - but the playing field is completely different to what it was for the entirety of last season.

For example:

West Ham finished 4th bottom last season, does that mean that they'll finish there again with all the signings they've made?

Things change dramatically, even in a few months. I wonder how many people predicted us finishing 4th/flirting with the title after coming where we did the season prior (11th) and after only buying Bellamy and Robert in the Summer (Elliott came on a free as well, mind!)

There are still almost 4 weeks to go until a ball is kicked, by when we will have a better idea of what sort of chance there is of this actually happening, which refutes the other part of Macbeth's argument (about not replacing Bramble, Moore, Bernard and Onyewu yet.) I don't know how anybody could confidently predict this either way though, especially at this stage.

At this precise point in time it does seem for all intents and purposes that Parky and others are being optimistic, but a lot can change in a month - as we've already seen recently - but someone saying that there is a "pretty good chance" of us finishing above Arsenal next year isn't the craziest thing I've seen on here today. In fact, someone arguing that last season's final standings will have ultimate bearing on where teams finish next term is far more daft in my eyes when you look at the fluctuation of some teams' league placings over the Premiership years.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: tmonkey on Sunday 15 July 2007, 08:56:00 PM
We're still miles behind Arsenal.

Eboue > Geremi
Toure > Taylor
Gallas > Rozenhal
Cliche > Babayaro, Baines, Shorey, etc.
Hleb > Milner
Rosicky > Duff/Zog
Fabregas > Emre/Barton
Gilberto > Butt
Van Persie > Owen

In practically every single outfield position, they have a player who is significantly better than anything we have, bar maybe a second striker since Eduardo is unproven (Van Persie is easily better than Owen, Martins, Viduka).

The only hope of them finishing outside the top 4 is that they struggle up front, especially if Persie picks up more knocks.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:11:49 PM
Bloody hell. So in your book it´s more daft to argue that the current strength of a team and the position in which they ended the league just two months ago is relevant to how that team will perform next season than it is to argue that we have a `pretty good chance´ of finishing above Arsenal.. Because statistically of course there are giant fluctuations between how teams do from one season to the next? And this is Arsenal we are talking about; they have had a bad season just like us by all accounts. It's not that long ago they completely dominated this league beating every record in the book and reached the Champions League final. Henry has left, but if people think they are now within our reach they need a reality check as far as I am concerned. We will do very well to finish above the likes of Everton next season. Getting up to the level to compete with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool  for Champions League is a couple of years away at least, and only attainable if Ashley has big plans for us, which we don't even know as yet. Realistically, if we wanted to be at that level this season coming Ashley would be looking at an outlay of over 100 million, and I can't quite see that happen..

Not wanting to get into semantics here, but how would you define a ´pretty good chance´ by the way..? 20%? 25%? 30%? Maybe even more?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mick on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:22:28 PM
Bloody hell. So in your book it´s more daft to argue that the current strength of a team and the position in which they ended the league just two months ago is relevant to how that team will perform next season than it is to argue that we have a `pretty good chance´ of finishing above Arsenal.. Because statistically of course there are giant fluctuations between how teams do from one season to the next? And this is Arsenal we are talking about; they have had a bad season just like us by all accounts. It's not that long ago they completely dominated this league beating every record in the book and reached the Champions League final. Henry has left, but if people think they are now within our reach they need a reality check as far as I am concerned. We will do very well to finish above the likes of Everton next season. Getting up to the level to compete with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool  for Champions League is a couple of years away at least, and only attainable if Ashley has big plans for us, which we don't even know as yet. Realistically, if we wanted to be at that level this season coming Ashley would be looking at an outlay of over 100 million, and I can't quite see that happen..

Not wanting to get into semantics here, but how would you define a ´pretty good chance´ by the way..? 20%? 25%? 30%? Maybe even more?

Bobby spent £15.5 million to take us from 11th to 4th, he spent that money of 2 players who took us from strugglers to challengers.  Why would it now cost over £100 million to do a similar job to that one?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:29:24 PM
Bloody hell. So in your book it´s more daft to argue that the current strength of a team and the position in which they ended the league just two months ago is relevant to how that team will perform next season than it is to argue that we have a `pretty good chance´ of finishing above Arsenal.. Because statistically of course there are giant fluctuations between how teams do from one season to the next? And this is Arsenal we are talking about; they have had a bad season just like us by all accounts. It's not that long ago they completely dominated this league beating every record in the book and reached the Champions League final. Henry has left, but if people think they are now within our reach they need a reality check as far as I am concerned. We will do very well to finish above the likes of Everton next season. Getting up to the level to compete with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool  for Champions League is a couple of years away at least, and only attainable if Ashley has big plans for us, which we don't even know as yet. Realistically, if we wanted to be at that level this season coming Ashley would be looking at an outlay of over 100 million, and I can't quite see that happen..

Not wanting to get into semantics here, but how would you define a ´pretty good chance´ by the way..? 20%? 25%? 30%? Maybe even more?

Bobby spent £15.5 million to take us from 11th to 4th, he spent that money of 2 players who took us from strugglers to challengers.  Why would it now cost over £100 million to do a similar job to that one?

Well, it's not like the clubs in the top 4 have stopped spending have they? Man U and Liverpool have both added over 50M worth to their already way better squads than ours. Against your example I could also point out that Sounness spent 50 million to take us back from 4th to 11th.. The lesson is that money spent badly doesn't help, but that is not to say money isn't needed to bridge the gap. We are miles behind the clubs in the top 4, and we won't realistically catch up on freebies and spending less than they do..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mick on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:35:53 PM

Well, it's not like the clubs in the top 4 have stopped spending have they? Man U and Liverpool have both added over 50M worth to their already way better squads than ours. Against your example I could also point out that Sounness spent 50 million to take us back from 4th to 11th.. The lesson is that money spent badly doesn't help, but that is not to say money isn't needed to bridge the gap. We are miles behind the clubs in the top 4, and we won't realistically catch up on freebies and spending less than they do..

I agree that money should be spent well, that's why I don't think we need to spend as much as £100 million if we spend it well.

Out of the top 4 I think Arsenal are the team that looks like being the weakest, I'm not saying we'll do better than them because the next 4 weeks or so will see a lot of players changing clubs, I think we will do well if we bring the right players in, I have no idea at this time if that will be the case.

I don't think we'd have any chance of catching them if the transfer window closed today, I'm not sure how the next 4 weeks will go but I hope that we get the players that we need.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:40:09 PM
Fair enough, but people seem to easily interpret Arsenal's performance last season as the beginning of a downward slope, while it could just as easily be a glitch, like we´ve seen Arsenal have before and always recover from.. The season before it was Liverpool that finished behind Everton and that has apparently proved a glitch, as nobody now mentions them as being within striking distance..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mick on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:43:19 PM
Fair enough, but people seem to easily interpret Arsenal's performance last season as the beginning of a downward slope, while it could just as easily be a glitch, like we´ve seen Arsenal have before and always recover from.. The season before it was Liverpool that finished behind Everton and that has apparently proved a glitch, as nobody now mentions them as being within striking distance..

It will be interesting to see how they get over Dein and Henry leaving, both played a major role in the success that they had.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Martin Lol on Sunday 15 July 2007, 09:48:46 PM
A team is as good as its squad.  If there are 3 injured first team players, which 3 come in to replace them?

Arsenal are still a pretty safe bet for 4th imho.

And Spurs are a fairly safe bet for 5th.

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Atticus on Sunday 15 July 2007, 10:47:37 PM
Fair enough, but people seem to easily interpret Arsenal's performance last season as the beginning of a downward slope, while it could just as easily be a glitch, like we´ve seen Arsenal have before and always recover from.. The season before it was Liverpool that finished behind Everton and that has apparently proved a glitch, as nobody now mentions them as being within striking distance..

For the record, I never said anything about Arsenal being on a downward slope. My entire point from start to finish has been that Macbeth's argument was very, very flawed. A point you've practically just acknowledged to Mick - who basically said exactly the same as me in his posts. You seem to be on a mission to be contrary lately, mate. I'm amazed you've got anything left in your bladder with the amount of bonfires you've p*ssed on/attempted to p*ss on lately!

Feel free to argue any of the other points I made aside from the positional fluctuations, though, like the fact that we had our best/most important player (Michael Owen) missing for 35.5 league games last season (compared to Henry's 22), or that there are still 4 weeks left before the season starts and almost 7 weeks before the transfer window closes, or the jump we made from 11th to 4th with three new incomings (plus Distin later on that year). All I've argued the entire time is that people have every right to say we have a "pretty good chance" of finishing above Arsenal because while we seem to be on a major upswing, and the same cannot seemingly be said of them - I see where you're going with the percentage thing and I'd assume "pretty good" would be anywhere from 25%-50% on whatever scale you want to put it (not that predictions can really be measured in percentages, as you'll know.)

Like Mick said, if the season was starting tomorrow I'd be worried because of the massive holes in the defence (although we're really not that much worse off that last term when you consider how many games Moore missed last season, or that Onyewu was a very late arrival and that Bernard didn't play at all - Rozehnal has replaced Bramble and Geremi is here, as well.) But as previously mentioned, how can you predict what will happen between now and May? All that the original point said was we have a chance of finishing above Arsenal, based on the fortunes of the clubs since the end of last season and there are some on here who are saying there is no chance of that happening at all.

I know in your eyes Ashley could well be Satan and that Allardyce could be worse than Roeder and Souness, but all signs so far point to better things from us next season and over the coming years. How does last season's league table have any real effect on what we do from August 11th? If more players stay fit, if the new signings work, if the new manager is a massive improvement, if the crowd are constantly behind the team, if the city gets that "buzz" about it again and with no European football to exhaust the squad (something people haven't yet taken into account - Thursday/Sunday is pretty gruelling when you're having to use practically the same players for every match.) Even this brief list doesn't come close to accounting for everything that really matters when it comes to winning football matches.

I don't know if it's me seeing things the "wrong way", but last season's final standings are quite a way down in any list of variables you could create for what will happen by mid-May 2008 - although I can see what you/Macbeth are getting at with them. For me it's just far too simplistic and too much of an easy get-out clause to slap people down with. It's like posting statistics without explanations, which has always rankled me, it simply does not give you the whole picture.

Last season's league table does not tell the whole story of a Premiership season, although I do understand that they're all that matters in the end. If you were given a league table for every Premiership season to date, how much would you really learn about the teams involved or the matches that took place? All you're seeing is games played, wins, draws, losses, goals scored, goals conceded and points totalled. It doesn't tell you why the table ended up looking like that, all you know is who came where and the statistics about how they did so - it doesn't even scratch the surface. Personally I don't look at football as being so simplistic and you obviously don't either, from what I've read from you.

You must see what I'm getting at here?

Macbeth came in with an argument to back up his "mad optimism" opening which consisted of saying we won't finish above Arsenal because they got 25 points more than us last season with Henry missing 22 games, and not mentioning anything regarding Michael Owen missing 13.5 more games for us. Henry will miss 38 league games for Arsenal this season, as well, which might make some more difference than 22. That was it, that was his entire justification. No mention of Dein, Wenger's uncertainty, Henry being gone, Fabregas potentially unsettled, etc. etc. No mention of anything Roeder/Shepherd/Ashley/Allardyce-related from our side of things, either, etc. No squad comparisons. Nothing.

The following things about the defence and '88 were equally as useless when you take the time to read them/think about them properly (for example: why would he be so worried about replacing three "poor" defenders who only played 41 games between them? When Geremi/Rozehnal are already here and there are still 4 weeks before the season begins?) What has 1988 got to do with 2007, really?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 15 July 2007, 10:48:01 PM
TL;DR. ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Teasy on Sunday 15 July 2007, 11:46:34 PM
In practically every single outfield position, they have a player who is significantly better than anything we have, bar maybe a second striker since Eduardo is unproven (Van Persie is easily better than Owen, Martins, Viduka).

Jesus.. talk about hero worship :)  Of course Arsenal have a better side, but IMO you overate some of there players and don't even compare the weaker members of the team.

For instabce, Van Persie is a way better striker then Owen, Martins or Viduka based on what?  His goals to games ratio last season was basically the same as Martins but over a much lower number of games.  The season before it was much worse..  Viduka's record last season was better then Van Persie.  Don't get me wrong, Van Persie is a very good player, but to read your post you'd think he's world class or something, he isn't..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 11:47:07 PM
A few things...

For the record, I never said anything about Arsenal being on a downward slope. My entire point from start to finish has been that Macbeth's argument was very, very flawed. A point you've practically just acknowledged to Mick - who basically said exactly the same as me in his posts. You seem to be on a mission to be contrary lately, mate. I'm amazed you've got anything left in your bladder with the amount of bonfires you've p*ssed on/attempted to p*ss on lately!

If not going along with all the blind faith and unfounded optimism on here currently is contrary than so be it. It needs to be done. Objectively, people with an outsiders´ perspective will laugh at some of the unrealistic ambitions the fans have even before we know anything about the plans of our new owners.. Threads like this just illustrate that point. We alll like to mock Spurs when their supporters act like they´re a big club. Well, maybe some people on here need a mirror to look into, and I will happily provide it. The pissing on bonfires seems a bit bitter by the way.. I didn´t mean to offend anybody. Apologies if I did..

Feel free to argue any of the other points I made aside from the positional fluctuations, though, like the fact that we had our best/most important player (Michael Owen) missing for 35.5 league games last season (compared to Henry's 22)

OK, if you insist.. Arsenal missed Henry AND Van Persie for big and important parts of their season. We missed Ameobi, but he´s hardly on that level. Surely missing your two best strikers for a big part of a season is even more of an excuse for an overall under par performance than missing one?

, or that there are still 4 weeks left before the season starts and almost 7 weeks before the transfer window closes, or the jump we made from 11th to 4th with three new incomings (plus Distin later on that year). All I've argued the entire time is that people have every right to say we have a "pretty good chance" of finishing above Arsenal because while we seem to be on a major upswing, and the same cannot seemingly be said of them - I see where you're going with the percentage thing and I'd assume "pretty good" would be anywhere from 25%-50% on whatever scale you want to put it (not that predictions can really be measured in percentages, as you'll know.)

Like Mick said, if the season was starting tomorrow I'd be worried because of the massive holes in the defence (although we're really not that much worse off that last term when you consider how many games Moore missed last season, or that Onyewu was a very late arrival and that Bernard didn't play at all - Rozehnal has replaced Bramble and Geremi is here, as well.)

It could be argues that if it wasn´t for Obafemi Martins more or less hitting the ground running from a different league and culture we were in serious danger of getting dragged in a relegation fight. Much of that was due to our defense.. If we´re not, as you say, currently that much worse off we´re still nowhere where we need to be.

But as previously mentioned, how can you predict what will happen between now and May?

I can´t, but neither can any of the party brigade, and that I believe is the whole point of my `mission` these last couple of days..

All that the original point said was we have a chance of finishing above Arsenal, based on the fortunes of the clubs since the end of last season and there are some on here who are saying there is no chance of that happening at all.

I think you need to interpret `no chance` as a figure of speech here. Statistically there is always a chance, but Sunderland cannot be ruled out for winning the Premiership if that´s anything to go by..

I know in your eyes Ashley could well be Satan and that Allardyce could be worse than Roeder and Souness

No, I am very pleased with Allardyce. Have been from the start, and even went on record saying I wanted him here as he was the best we could get at the time before it happened. It´s Ashley whom I believe the jury is out on.. I don´t think he will be satan, but then again contrary to many people on here I didn´t think Shepherd was. All I´m saying is that I will believe it when I see it, not just assuming everything will turn out for the better without any objective foundation for that optimism..

, but all signs so far point to better things from us next season and over the coming years. How does last season's league table have any real effect on what we do from August 11th? If more players stay fit, if the new signings work, if the new manager is a massive improvement, if the crowd are constantly behind the team, if the city gets that "buzz" about it again and with no European football to exhaust the squad (something people haven't yet taken into account - Thursday/Sunday is pretty gruelling when you're having to use practically the same players for every match.) Even this brief list doesn't come close to accounting for everything that really matters when it comes to winning football matches.

That´s a lot of ifs..

I don't know if it's me seeing things the "wrong way", but last season's final standings are quite a way down in any list of variables you could create for what will happen by mid-May 2008 - although I can see what you/Macbeth are getting at with them. For me it's just far too simplistic and too much of an easy get-out clause to slap people down with. It's like posting statistics without explanations, which has always rankled me, it simply does not give you the whole picture.

Sorry, but when it comes to who qualifies for Champions League football statistics have proved to be fairly reliable the last couple of years. Hypothetically anything can happen, but we´re trying to be realistic, aren´t we.. Realistically there is a small chance (maybe 5/10%) of beating Arsenal to fourth, not a pretty good chance in my opinion. In effect, it is negligeable when you consider they have just had a bad year too.. It would require some disastor of a season for them to be overtaken by the likes of us next season. That´s just being realistic..

Last season's league table does not tell the whole story of a Premiership season, although I do understand that they're all that matters in the end. If you were given a league table for every Premiership season to date, how much would you really learn about the teams involved or the matches that took place? All you're seeing is games played, wins, draws, losses, goals scored, goals conceded and points totalled. It doesn't tell you why the table ended up looking like that, all you know is who came where and the statistics about how they did so - it doesn't even scratch the surface. Personally I don't look at football as being so simplistic and you obviously don't either, from what I've read from you.

You must see what I'm getting at here?

Macbeth came in with an argument to back up his "mad optimism" opening which consisted of saying we won't finish above Arsenal because they got 25 points more than us last season with Henry missing 22 games, and not mentioning anything regarding Michael Owen missing 13.5 more games for us. Henry will miss 38 league games for Arsenal this season, as well, which might make some more difference than 22. That was it, that was his entire justification. No mention of Dein, Wenger's uncertainty, Henry being gone, Fabregas potentially unsettled, etc. etc. No mention of anything Roeder/Shepherd/Ashley/Allardyce-related from our side of things, either, etc. No squad comparisons. Nothing.

They had a bad season and finished 4th. We had a horrendous season and finished 13th. We are working very hard to not repeat this, but so are they and so are in effect all the other teams. It´s not just about us making progress and Arsenal potentially (!) slipping a bit.

The following things about the defence and '88 were equally as useless when you take the time to read them/think about them properly (for example: why would he be so worried about replacing three "poor" defenders who only played 41 games between them? When Geremi/Rozehnal are already here and there are still 4 weeks before the season begins?) What has 1988 got to do with 2007, really?

I never mentioned 88. Must have been somebody else. I was a 12 year old boy back then who was over the moon with Holland winning the EC. I probably couldn´t have told you where Newcastle lies in England, so sorry, but don´t know what you´re on about..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 15 July 2007, 11:48:23 PM
EL;DR. :tongue3:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Sunday 15 July 2007, 11:51:16 PM
EL;DR. :tongue3:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Sunday 15 July 2007, 11:53:37 PM
In practically every single outfield position, they have a player who is significantly better than anything we have, bar maybe a second striker since Eduardo is unproven (Van Persie is easily better than Owen, Martins, Viduka).

Jesus.. talk about hero worship :)  Of course Arsenal have a better side, but IMO you completely overate some of there players and don't even compare the weaker members of the team.

Van Persie is a way better striker then Owen, Martins or Viduka based on what?  His goals to games ratio last season was basically the same as Martins but over a much lower number of games.  The season before it was much worse..  Viduka's record last season was better then Van Persie.  Don't get me wrong, Van Persie is a very good player, but to read your post you'd think he's world class or something, he isn't..

Some stats for you (sorry Janitor)..

Henry played 16.5 games (1474mins) & scored 10goals
Van persie played 22 games (1456mins) & scored 11goals
Berbatov played 33 games (2715mins) & 12goals
Drogba played 33 games (2946mins) & 20goals

Not saying he´s better than Owen by the way, but that is a pretty good 2007 Premiership goals per minute played ratio..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: macbeth on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:00:31 AM
You must see what I'm getting at here?

Macbeth came in with an argument to back up his "mad optimism" opening which consisted of saying we won't finish above Arsenal because they got 25 points more than us last season with Henry missing 22 games, and not mentioning anything regarding Michael Owen missing 13.5 more games for us. Henry will miss 38 league games for Arsenal this season, as well, which might make some more difference than 22. That was it, that was his entire justification. No mention of Dein, Wenger's uncertainty, Henry being gone, Fabregas potentially unsettled, etc. etc. No mention of anything Roeder/Shepherd/Ashley/Allardyce-related from our side of things, either, etc. No squad comparisons. Nothing.

The following things about the defence and '88 were equally as useless when you take the time to read them/think about them properly (for example: why would he be so worried about replacing three "poor" defenders who only played 41 games between them? When Geremi/Rozehnal are already here and there are still 4 weeks before the season begins?) What has 1988 got to do with 2007, really?

Okay. Your positive outlook is essentially based on changes in Chairman and Manager, and the belief that Owen will play a lot closer to 38 games than to 10.

The owner has no track record in football, his credential is purely his cash. If it had been Lerner, or Gilete, or the Icelandic guy at West Ham, or the Portsmouth owner, or Steve Gibson then I think we'd have been equally as excited, just because of losing the predecessor.

The new players are fine, but unlikely to be team changing ones.
Geremi ? I'm happy he's better than Carr, can play in a couple of positions, sounds like we've signed Hughes back.
Rozenhal looks great on paper, should make one of the centre-half positions his own, but I'm saying this purely on the back of newspaper descriptions.
Barton, maybe, depends whether he's in prison or not.
Viduka, good addition, not convinced on attitude, also need to recognise that for whate ever reasons he has averaged less than 19 league starts per season for the last three years.

I'm not knocking the incomings, just trying to highlight there are some big concerns.

As for covering the 41 starts from missing crap defenders. We need 4 centre-halfs. As a wee question name the last two of our centre-halfs to have played in three-quarters of the league games in a season. Having Taylor and Rozenhal is great but the current first choice cover of Ramage and Huntington is less exciting, for us.

The Arsenal squad today, against the Newcastle squad today ? Well we get rid of 6 players who made 84 appearances, and 6 goals, we replace with 4 players so far. Arsenal lose 2 players who made 20 appearances and 10 goals, three in to replace them. Squads look to be fairly equally balanced in their trading to date. They are starting from a squad that gained 68 points, us from one that managed 43.

My comment about 88 came from the optimism for that year being even higher than for this. Finished 8th the previous year, strengthened well and were relegated by Xmas. Of course the opposte can happen, it fif with Sir Bobby. As great as Sam may be he doesn't quite have the experience/knowledge that Robson brought to the party. Again he may well prove to have it with time, but at the moment is hope, and guesswork.

And the last two centre-halfs to play 28 or more games in a season were Boumsong (2006) and Dabizas(2002).
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:10:45 AM
Comparing Geremi to Hughes  :lol:

I think the premise of the thread is that the hoped for investments in all the right areas will be made. We have been told large amounts of money are available and we have a half-decent (at worst) manager who has so far made 4 very good signings.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Coxaux on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:23:38 AM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?





For teams like ourselves and Spurs it will still be very, very difficult to dislodge Arsenal from that forth spot It's not impossible but we have to remember Arsenal have been in those European spots for years. Wenger has the experience and know how to guide his team into the champions league, he has done it year after year. Although the challenging pack are closing the gap I feel they are laking the experience and know how in closing out top four finish.

The loss of Henry will undoubtedly be huge, but how often has the loss of a "main man" in a team effected the team concerned in a positive way? One example that spring immediately to mind is the loss of Rooney to Everton. Although it isn't the best example Rooney was highly rated at a time when Everton were really struggling at the bottom of the league. Rooney was transfered to Man United and the transformation was nothing short of miraculous, a team ethic that was lacking became evident and they began to climb the league. Arsenal have also recently signed up Da Silva, a goal poacher they so desperately lacked. He is likely to provide a solution to the void that they have been looking to fill for some time. On top of this Van Persie will return from injury, a player who was bang in form before he was ruled out for the season with injury.

In Owen we also have a fine Goal poacher, unfortunately you've also got to a remember this a goal poacher who had never scored twenty goals a season before suffering a serious injury. On top of this the service to our strike force will never be as productive as it is at Arsenal. Their midfield play is far superior to ours, hence providing far more goal soring opportunities to their forwards. All this has to be considered before you mention the fact they have a settled to defense that is fairly proven and we our only just putting a newly assembled back line together.

Earlier I mentioned the know how of Arsenal. There is no doubt this is a brand new era at Newcastle, but this an era just beginning. The new owner has barely got his feet under the table and the manager is yet to imprint his mark and style on the team. You can't really use out previous standings in the league as an effective argument. However even though Wenger is building a whole new dynasty at Arsenal the experience is still there. The likes of Gilberto, Gallas and Toure have all one titles in the domestic campaign and have a vast European experience. Youngsters breaking into the team have been blooded in various cups and competitions and have been developed from day one to play the style that Arsenal want to play. This is a side that knows how to retain a top four side.

I've stated many times I believe Arsenal will finish in the top four next year, worst case scenario top five, with our current squad and ability can you see us overtaking the likes of Spurs as well as Arsenal in the coming season, it would require a minor miracle.

At the end of the day big things are expected of Big Sam but he needs time to deliver the goods. Ourselves and Arsenal are both in a transition phase yet Arsenal still have the know how, quality and far superior style of play no the field. In three or four years time we might be up their with the likes of Spurs and Arsenal but we have to be patient and maybe even suffer through another season of consolidation. Sam is no mug but he isn't a miracle worker, it would be highly unfair to expect him to ove take Arsenal  and essentially undue the damage of previous mangers in such a short space of time.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:27:22 AM
I've stated many time...

Where? Welcome onboard btw.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: KaKa on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:31:44 AM
Wenger goes for hot Rod
 
By MARK IRWIN
July 16, 2007
 

COMMENT ON THIS STORY
 
ARSENAL are poised to smash their transfer record with a £15million swoop for Argentinian striker Rodrigo Palacio.

Reports in Argentina claim Palacio, 25, will fly to London tomorrow for a medical after Boca Juniors accepted the Gunners offer.

He is destined to wear the No 14 shirt vacated by Thierry Henry’s recent £16m move to Barcelona.

Palacio wears No 14 for Boca and Argentina and is seen as a direct replacement for Henry.

Ironically, Barcelona had agreed a £14.9m deal for Palacio just days before learning long-term target Henry was available.

An earlier bid of £12.7m had been knocked back by Boca president Mauricio Macri, who said: “It would have to be a much bigger offer because, for me, he is the best striker in Argentina.”

The deal was further complicated by the fact former clubs Huracan and Banfield are both due a cut of the transfer fee.

But now it appears all obstacles have been removed after Arsenal came in with a record-breaking offer.

Palacio is currently in Venezuela as part of the Argentina squad which played Brazil in last night’s final of the Copa America.

He is eager to prove himself in Europe after going to the World Cup in Germany last year as back-up to Hernan Crespo and Carlos Tevez.

Palacio has scored 39 goals in 79 appearances for Boca and has won five Argentine caps.

He partnered Tevez in Argentina’s 1-0 win over Paraguay on July 5.

Gunners boss Arsene Wenger has already spent £16.5m this summer on striker Eduardo Da Silva and full-back Bacary Sagna.

Palacio’s arrival would smash the club-record £12.5m paid for Sylvain Wiltord in 2000.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2007320774,00.html
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:36:26 AM
Oh well Parky, another thread on its knees   :lol:

Nice thought while it lasted.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Decky on Monday 16 July 2007, 05:44:11 AM
After last season a top 8 finish should put a smile on our faces tbh, bring the likes of Deco here and then maybe top 6 but hope for top 4 and your setting yourself up for disappointment.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: optimistic nit on Monday 16 July 2007, 09:53:48 AM
In fairness, we were without Owen for even more of the campaign... and we had Glenn Roeder as the manager... not to mention suffering loads of other ball-aching injuries as well.

Not sure if using last-term as a measuring stick is entirely sensible when talking about next season, when you take into account how much has changed at both clubs since May.

I tend to agree that it's very optimistic thinking to say we'll finish above them next term (although Parky did only say "pretty good chance"), but saying we won't because they got 25 points more than us last season means absolutely nowt.

You honestly think the fact that Arsenal finished the season just ended 25 (!) points ahead of us is not a valid argument for saying we won't finish above Arsenal the season that hasn't even started..???!!! By that reasoning Wigan fans may think they have a pretty good chance of getting in the Champions League..

i think i may need this reasoning spelled out, because i have no idea how you make that giant leap of faith.  ???
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: newcastle_petz on Monday 16 July 2007, 09:58:14 AM


I think we could do it.
May this season wasn't the best, but I think we had much bad luck. No Owen, so much injuries...
I think we could manage this season loads better than the one before
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:42:46 AM
Fair enough, but people seem to easily interpret Arsenal's performance last season as the beginning of a downward slope, while it could just as easily be a glitch, like we´ve seen Arsenal have before and always recover from.. The season before it was Liverpool that finished behind Everton and that has apparently proved a glitch, as nobody now mentions them as being within striking distance..

For the record, I never said anything about Arsenal being on a downward slope. My entire point from start to finish has been that Macbeth's argument was very, very flawed. A point you've practically just acknowledged to Mick - who basically said exactly the same as me in his posts. You seem to be on a mission to be contrary lately, mate. I'm amazed you've got anything left in your bladder with the amount of bonfires you've p*ssed on/attempted to p*ss on lately!

Feel free to argue any of the other points I made aside from the positional fluctuations, though, like the fact that we had our best/most important player (Michael Owen) missing for 35.5 league games last season (compared to Henry's 22), or that there are still 4 weeks left before the season starts and almost 7 weeks before the transfer window closes, or the jump we made from 11th to 4th with three new incomings (plus Distin later on that year). All I've argued the entire time is that people have every right to say we have a "pretty good chance" of finishing above Arsenal because while we seem to be on a major upswing, and the same cannot seemingly be said of them - I see where you're going with the percentage thing and I'd assume "pretty good" would be anywhere from 25%-50% on whatever scale you want to put it (not that predictions can really be measured in percentages, as you'll know.)

Like Mick said, if the season was starting tomorrow I'd be worried because of the massive holes in the defence (although we're really not that much worse off that last term when you consider how many games Moore missed last season, or that Onyewu was a very late arrival and that Bernard didn't play at all - Rozehnal has replaced Bramble and Geremi is here, as well.) But as previously mentioned, how can you predict what will happen between now and May? All that the original point said was we have a chance of finishing above Arsenal, based on the fortunes of the clubs since the end of last season and there are some on here who are saying there is no chance of that happening at all.

I know in your eyes Ashley could well be Satan and that Allardyce could be worse than Roeder and Souness, but all signs so far point to better things from us next season and over the coming years. How does last season's league table have any real effect on what we do from August 11th? If more players stay fit, if the new signings work, if the new manager is a massive improvement, if the crowd are constantly behind the team, if the city gets that "buzz" about it again and with no European football to exhaust the squad (something people haven't yet taken into account - Thursday/Sunday is pretty gruelling when you're having to use practically the same players for every match.) Even this brief list doesn't come close to accounting for everything that really matters when it comes to winning football matches.

I don't know if it's me seeing things the "wrong way", but last season's final standings are quite a way down in any list of variables you could create for what will happen by mid-May 2008 - although I can see what you/Macbeth are getting at with them. For me it's just far too simplistic and too much of an easy get-out clause to slap people down with. It's like posting statistics without explanations, which has always rankled me, it simply does not give you the whole picture.

Last season's league table does not tell the whole story of a Premiership season, although I do understand that they're all that matters in the end. If you were given a league table for every Premiership season to date, how much would you really learn about the teams involved or the matches that took place? All you're seeing is games played, wins, draws, losses, goals scored, goals conceded and points totalled. It doesn't tell you why the table ended up looking like that, all you know is who came where and the statistics about how they did so - it doesn't even scratch the surface. Personally I don't look at football as being so simplistic and you obviously don't either, from what I've read from you.

You must see what I'm getting at here?

Macbeth came in with an argument to back up his "mad optimism" opening which consisted of saying we won't finish above Arsenal because they got 25 points more than us last season with Henry missing 22 games, and not mentioning anything regarding Michael Owen missing 13.5 more games for us. Henry will miss 38 league games for Arsenal this season, as well, which might make some more difference than 22. That was it, that was his entire justification. No mention of Dein, Wenger's uncertainty, Henry being gone, Fabregas potentially unsettled, etc. etc. No mention of anything Roeder/Shepherd/Ashley/Allardyce-related from our side of things, either, etc. No squad comparisons. Nothing.

The following things about the defence and '88 were equally as useless when you take the time to read them/think about them properly (for example: why would he be so worried about replacing three "poor" defenders who only played 41 games between them? When Geremi/Rozehnal are already here and there are still 4 weeks before the season begins?) What has 1988 got to do with 2007, really?


Janitor confirming yet again if it was neccesary that he is the best poster on the footie board.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:44:17 AM
Put your knob away.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:47:12 AM
Put your knob away.

It's tricky when it's hard. :blush:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:48:50 AM
Dirty boy!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: a random player who doesn't even play for us any more on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:51:23 AM
Put your knob away.

It's tricky when it's hard. :blush:
Dirty boy!
Dave and Parky in cyber sex scandal.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:57:26 AM
He touched me first, the gay.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:58:15 AM
He touched me first, the gay.

It was more of a twitch. :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: a random player who doesn't even play for us any more on Monday 16 July 2007, 10:58:26 AM
He touched me first, the gay.
You didn't pull away.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: optimistic nit on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:00:58 AM
parky's avatar could possibly have a more sinister purpose?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:01:21 AM
I was seduced by promises of puppies and Chupa Chups.

Lying b******.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:02:06 AM
parky's avatar could possibly have a more sinister purpose?
:lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:03:52 AM
:lol:

Just realised.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: madras on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:04:52 AM
parky's avatar could possibly have a more sinister purpose?
took a little while to understand ,but that is f***ing funny!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:06:11 AM
parky's avatar could possibly have a more sinister purpose?
took a little while to understand ,but that is f***ing funny!

You f***ers! :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: BONTEMPI on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:08:32 AM
parky's avatar could possibly have a more sinister purpose?
took a little while to understand ,but that is f****** funny!

You f***ers! :razz:

Rusty bullet hole alert!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:09:40 AM
Mad optimism  :coolsmiley:

Arsenal got 25 points more than us last season, despie Henry missing 22 league games. They only managed 2 points off us. They have a second team capable of reaching the League Cup final on merit.

We have got rid of poor defenders who started 41 games between them. We have replaced them with Geremi who we'd not even have noticed if he'd gone to say Villa. We've signed one centre-half (to replace three in Bramble, Moore and Gooch) who should be good, but none of us ever seen play. Our defence is paper thing. We look good with forwards but we can only play two of them.

The great-to-see optimism is too reminiscent of 88 for me. Bring in great goalie, good centre-half, excellent winger and an exciting goalscoring centre-forward, while only losing one good player. Looked great. For 44 seconds







Yes I am mad and optimistic it's never done me any harm tbh. Try it sometime.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr Logic on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:10:07 AM
I thought he meant hypnotic.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Lotus on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:11:28 AM
The problem with those who think we will exceed Arsenal next season is the belief that we will yet buy some quality players coupled with the hope that Arseanl don't.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:24:06 AM
Bloody hell. So in your book it´s more daft to argue that the current strength of a team and the position in which they ended the league just two months ago is relevant to how that team will perform next season than it is to argue that we have a `pretty good chance´ of finishing above Arsenal.. Because statistically of course there are giant fluctuations between how teams do from one season to the next? And this is Arsenal we are talking about; they have had a bad season just like us by all accounts. It's not that long ago they completely dominated this league beating every record in the book and reached the Champions League final. Henry has left, but if people think they are now within our reach they need a reality check as far as I am concerned. We will do very well to finish above the likes of Everton next season. Getting up to the level to compete with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool  for Champions League is a couple of years away at least, and only attainable if Ashley has big plans for us, which we don't even know as yet. Realistically, if we wanted to be at that level this season coming Ashley would be looking at an outlay of over 100 million, and I can't quite see that happen..

Not wanting to get into semantics here, but how would you define a ´pretty good chance´ by the way..? 20%? 25%? 30%? Maybe even more?

Bobby spent £15.5 million to take us from 11th to 4th, he spent that money of 2 players who took us from strugglers to challengers.  Why would it now cost over £100 million to do a similar job to that one?

That's too simple Mick. People seem to want everything to be either complicated or impossible. :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:46:48 AM
In fairness, we were without Owen for even more of the campaign... and we had Glenn Roeder as the manager... not to mention suffering loads of other ball-aching injuries as well.

Not sure if using last-term as a measuring stick is entirely sensible when talking about next season, when you take into account how much has changed at both clubs since May.

I tend to agree that it's very optimistic thinking to say we'll finish above them next term (although Parky did only say "pretty good chance"), but saying we won't because they got 25 points more than us last season means absolutely nowt.

You honestly think the fact that Arsenal finished the season just ended 25 (!) points ahead of us is not a valid argument for saying we won't finish above Arsenal the season that hasn't even started..???!!! By that reasoning Wigan fans may think they have a pretty good chance of getting in the Champions League..

i think i may need this reasoning spelled out, because i have no idea how you make that giant leap of faith.  ???


25 points more would have got Wigan to fifth, not far off CL football. As we have been told anything can happen between the end of a season and the start of the next, so much so even that the Premieship table final standings have no bearing on what is likely to happen next year.. It's all about belief and optimism really..  :crazy2:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Monday 16 July 2007, 11:52:37 AM
Fair enough, but people seem to easily interpret Arsenal's performance last season as the beginning of a downward slope, while it could just as easily be a glitch, like we´ve seen Arsenal have before and always recover from.. The season before it was Liverpool that finished behind Everton and that has apparently proved a glitch, as nobody now mentions them as being within striking distance..

For the record, I never said anything about Arsenal being on a downward slope. My entire point from start to finish has been that Macbeth's argument was very, very flawed. A point you've practically just acknowledged to Mick - who basically said exactly the same as me in his posts. You seem to be on a mission to be contrary lately, mate. I'm amazed you've got anything left in your bladder with the amount of bonfires you've p*ssed on/attempted to p*ss on lately!

Feel free to argue any of the other points I made aside from the positional fluctuations, though, like the fact that we had our best/most important player (Michael Owen) missing for 35.5 league games last season (compared to Henry's 22), or that there are still 4 weeks left before the season starts and almost 7 weeks before the transfer window closes, or the jump we made from 11th to 4th with three new incomings (plus Distin later on that year). All I've argued the entire time is that people have every right to say we have a "pretty good chance" of finishing above Arsenal because while we seem to be on a major upswing, and the same cannot seemingly be said of them - I see where you're going with the percentage thing and I'd assume "pretty good" would be anywhere from 25%-50% on whatever scale you want to put it (not that predictions can really be measured in percentages, as you'll know.)

Like Mick said, if the season was starting tomorrow I'd be worried because of the massive holes in the defence (although we're really not that much worse off that last term when you consider how many games Moore missed last season, or that Onyewu was a very late arrival and that Bernard didn't play at all - Rozehnal has replaced Bramble and Geremi is here, as well.) But as previously mentioned, how can you predict what will happen between now and May? All that the original point said was we have a chance of finishing above Arsenal, based on the fortunes of the clubs since the end of last season and there are some on here who are saying there is no chance of that happening at all.

I know in your eyes Ashley could well be Satan and that Allardyce could be worse than Roeder and Souness, but all signs so far point to better things from us next season and over the coming years. How does last season's league table have any real effect on what we do from August 11th? If more players stay fit, if the new signings work, if the new manager is a massive improvement, if the crowd are constantly behind the team, if the city gets that "buzz" about it again and with no European football to exhaust the squad (something people haven't yet taken into account - Thursday/Sunday is pretty gruelling when you're having to use practically the same players for every match.) Even this brief list doesn't come close to accounting for everything that really matters when it comes to winning football matches.

I don't know if it's me seeing things the "wrong way", but last season's final standings are quite a way down in any list of variables you could create for what will happen by mid-May 2008 - although I can see what you/Macbeth are getting at with them. For me it's just far too simplistic and too much of an easy get-out clause to slap people down with. It's like posting statistics without explanations, which has always rankled me, it simply does not give you the whole picture.

Last season's league table does not tell the whole story of a Premiership season, although I do understand that they're all that matters in the end. If you were given a league table for every Premiership season to date, how much would you really learn about the teams involved or the matches that took place? All you're seeing is games played, wins, draws, losses, goals scored, goals conceded and points totalled. It doesn't tell you why the table ended up looking like that, all you know is who came where and the statistics about how they did so - it doesn't even scratch the surface. Personally I don't look at football as being so simplistic and you obviously don't either, from what I've read from you.

You must see what I'm getting at here?

Macbeth came in with an argument to back up his "mad optimism" opening which consisted of saying we won't finish above Arsenal because they got 25 points more than us last season with Henry missing 22 games, and not mentioning anything regarding Michael Owen missing 13.5 more games for us. Henry will miss 38 league games for Arsenal this season, as well, which might make some more difference than 22. That was it, that was his entire justification. No mention of Dein, Wenger's uncertainty, Henry being gone, Fabregas potentially unsettled, etc. etc. No mention of anything Roeder/Shepherd/Ashley/Allardyce-related from our side of things, either, etc. No squad comparisons. Nothing.

The following things about the defence and '88 were equally as useless when you take the time to read them/think about them properly (for example: why would he be so worried about replacing three "poor" defenders who only played 41 games between them? When Geremi/Rozehnal are already here and there are still 4 weeks before the season begins?) What has 1988 got to do with 2007, really?


Janitor confirming yet again if it was neccesary that he is the best poster on the footie board.

It's a good post, but anybody who thinks we have up to a 50% chance of finishing above Arsenal next season quickly loses credibility in my book, no matter how eloquently the argument is put..

Edit: that's not to say I don't think Janitor is a good poster. He always spends time and effort to build up a good argument, and I even agree with him most of the time. This time however, I feel his assessment of the situation is way off..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:00:59 PM
A bit sick of this argument.

Its clear that using Everton's final position the season before would not have won you many bets on their position the following season. Not for a few years anyway.

How many games last season did we play better than the opposition and lose? I think its those games where we werent outplayed but equaled or played better than the other team without taking points, these are the ones that you can be more confident of picking up points in this season. That is the very basic point being made regarding the differences the right manager and signings can make. The gulf in class between us and Everton just isnt there, its in the minds of the pessimistic supporter.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 16 July 2007, 12:04:45 PM
A bit sick of this argument.

Its clear that using Everton's final position the season before would not have won you many bets on their position the following season. Not for a few years anyway.

How many games last season did we play better than the opposition and lose? I think its those games where we werent outplayed but equaled or played better than the other team without taking points, these are the ones that you can be more confident of picking up points in this season. That is the very basic point being made regarding the differences the right manager and signings can make. The gulf in class between us and Everton just isnt there, its in the minds of the pessimistic supporter.


Chez seething. :razz:


But seriously if anyone in this thread thinks it isn't on next season needs to do the glass half full test.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Atticus on Monday 16 July 2007, 01:46:18 PM
I've just had my credibility questioned by Karate_Kuyt.

Absolutely gutted. :rant:

Parky's rimming has made up for it mind. Nearly.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Northern Monkey on Monday 16 July 2007, 03:05:48 PM
So, you're all thinking it's a long shot and that maybe in 2/3 seasons. But why is that?
Not so long ago we finished 7th under Roeder after flirting with relegation with half a squad and kids filling in week in week out.

Arsenal are in a much worse state than people realise. Henry their kingpin and mascot is gone and will soon be followed by Fabregas (Real).
Ljundberg is coming to the end of his usefullness and Reyes will not return. They have had defensive problems all last season...Others have already read
the writing on the wall (Gallas)...With comments about not winning owt with kids etc...Wenger is weakened without his general Dien.

We on the other hand have arguably one of the best strike forces in the PL and are slowly putting together a defence to match, the puzzle is coming together.
If we start factoring in the arrival of types such as Deco and maybe one or two other quality players we are in a position to compete for 4th.

The situation as I see is that Manu and Chelsea are miles ahead and Liverpool will  start to catch up this year, but currently Arsenal are vulernable. Spurs and us will give 4th a run for its money.

Why not?





4th!! muahahahahaaha!

I say again: muahahahaaha!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Unbelievable! on Monday 16 July 2007, 03:47:19 PM
I've just had my credibility questioned by Karate_Kuyt.

Absolutely gutted. :rant:

Parky's rimming has made up for it mind. Nearly.

Lol, sorry mate.. I've had people question my sanity and credibility when defending everybody's favourite Spanish punchbag for not having got a real chance in my humble opinion. Sometimes people with otherwise completely sensible ideas can have a contrary opinion on a particular subject that causes other people with normally completely sensible ideas to think they are barking mad with respect to that particular topic.. Nothing wrong with a little bit of discussion and banter sometimes.. ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Spurs_from_Africa on Thursday 19 July 2007, 10:45:24 PM
I find some of the arguments on here a bit strange. Can I ask, someone said Owen is your most important player, how exactly is a player who has played a handful of games over the last few seasons a key player? Yes, Owen is very good but it has to be seen how he will recover fully from his injury and whether he can go 10 games without getting injured. Another thing about Newcastle in particular. Your squad is very thin. One thing I learned last season was the importance of a big squad, with players who can come in and do a job. With our buys so far, Im even more confident than last season. Berbatov injured? Just play Bent( not as good but can play up front on his own, with Keane, as well as Defoe.) King injured(again :rolleyes:). Just bring in Kaboul or Rocha. Zokora injured? Bring in Huddlestone for a few games. I dont see Newcastle with that, although of course, that may change by the end of the transfer window. So far, while your signings have been pretty good, they could easily backfire. Rozenthal is unproven( before anyone points it out, yes Kaboul is also unproven). Barton just invites trouble( who beats up a kid, as well as a teammate?) Geremi is an excellent squad player who I wouldnt have minded. Viduka is also very good although he doesnt seem to play a massive amount of games per season. Progress far into both cups and you could easily see league form massively suffer.

People are making excuses for Newcastle while seemingly leaving them out for Arsenal. They lost their best two forwards for most of the season, yet still outscored most teams in the premiership. 4th place was safe well before the season ended so they were playing at a canter for the last few games of the season. If they had us/Everton etc. breathing down their necks, you could bet their mortgage they would have got more points.

The truth is that Arsenal have a better manager and better squad/first eleven than any of the chasing pack. Arsenal dont have any massive problems in their team( except maybe their goalie). You, no real squad depth, Everton the same. Our central midfielders are nowhere near as good as any of the top 4's and we still dont have a left winger. In essence, I believe next season, the top 4 will be the same as before. We will chase Arsenal till quite late in the season but they will eventually win out by 3-4 points. Then there will be a sizable gap and a big scrap for 6th between Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, Blackburn and Pompey(although Blackburn and Everton may suffer from cup runs).
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 19 July 2007, 10:47:55 PM
Owen is our most important player because he's arguably the one individual we have on our books who could be the difference between a top 6 challenge, and another season in mid-table.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Spurs_from_Africa on Thursday 19 July 2007, 10:57:54 PM
Owen is our most important player because he's arguably the one individual we have on our books who could be the difference between a top 6 challenge, and another season in mid-table.

But how could he be, seeing as he has played a few games in the last few seasons. Someone like Given would be more plausible. Plays a lot of games and every time I have seen him, he was excellent, particularly his shot stopping. Surely wins you many points every season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mowen on Thursday 19 July 2007, 11:13:01 PM
Owen is our most important player because he's arguably the one individual we have on our books who could be the difference between a top 6 challenge, and another season in mid-table.

But how could he be, seeing as he has played a few games in the last few seasons. Someone like Given would be more plausible. Plays a lot of games and every time I have seen him, he was excellent, particularly his shot stopping. Surely wins you many points every season.

Being injured for the last two seasons does not mean he's not an important player. He's our most important player because his fitness is more important to the team than that of any player. If he stays clear of injuries for the whole season then it'll make a huge difference to us. It's not that difficult.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 19 July 2007, 11:52:25 PM
Owen is our most important player because he's arguably the one individual we have on our books who could be the difference between a top 6 challenge, and another season in mid-table.

But how could he be, seeing as he has played a few games in the last few seasons. Someone like Given would be more plausible. Plays a lot of games and every time I have seen him, he was excellent, particularly his shot stopping. Surely wins you many points every season.

Hmm, not really. We had a pretty decent defensive record last season compared to others (including yourselves). Add a 15-20 goal a season Michael Owen, and he's easily our most valuable player.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Friday 20 July 2007, 12:27:10 AM
If Berbatov was injured most of next season I guess that he'd be counted as a key player missing for Spurs. I agree with a lot of what SFA says in his post though.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: fredbob on Friday 20 July 2007, 12:45:37 AM

tbf i completely agree with SFA, he makes complete sese, ithink its naive to say that own is our most important player, to be honest it only just acceptble to say that he may be our most important player, in my opinion as SFA has said a player like shay given must be considered our most importnant player. he's far too consistent to consider otherwise. As for us finishing above Arsenal, yes i do think its possible, but i am very confident it wont, in my opinion spurs are the only reall contenders for 4th spot if not higher. I think at the moment its fair to say that they may have a better squad than us, plus a manager whos been there for a decent amount of time who has a system in place. I have no doubts about the ability of our manager but i can honestly say that at this point i would be happy if nufc finished in the top 6 for the next 3 years or so. this thread seems to underly the issue nufc fans have...some of the expectations that are dribbled out onto this forum are plain delusional. Of course it fair to say that nufc should be in a position to qualify for CL eventually bt in my opinion the minute you mention CL qualification you automatically assume yourself to be challneger for the title. I think it a correlltion that people dont really think about. Now if anoyone here genuinely belives we maybe title challengers within the next 2 years, please put your hands up and say why?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: jep on Friday 20 July 2007, 12:50:07 AM
Our central midfielders are nowhere near as good as any of the top 4's and we still dont have a left winger. In essence, I believe next season, the top 4 will be the same as before.


Malbranque had a cracking game against us on the left, even tho he's right-footed, which shows how well Jol juggles his players, imo. I think Milner also did quite good on the left wing on one or two occasions for us (iirc), would love to see more of that this season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 20 July 2007, 02:19:16 AM
Is Spurs_from_Africa, Invicta_toon, Super_Steve_Howey or the Bazooka_from_viduka?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Syrette on Friday 20 July 2007, 03:03:51 AM
Is Spurs_from_Africa, Invicta_toon, Super_Steve_Howey or the Bazooka_from_viduka?

None, he's a genuine poster from COYS if I recall correctly.

Not that I make a habit of visiting that sort of forum.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Spurs_from_Africa on Saturday 21 July 2007, 12:05:19 AM
Is Spurs_from_Africa, Invicta_toon, Super_Steve_Howey or the Bazooka_from_viduka?

Why would I be any of those? Its not like Ive come on here to start arguments, I genuinely wanted to have discussions with fans who didnt support Tottenham so I could see the views of other supporters. With regards to the owen thing, I think I'll just back down and agree to disagree. Tbh, the berbatov comparison isnt really the same as Berbatov played most games in the season and won many games for us with his goals, assists etc. As far as Im aware, the most games Owen has played for Newcastle in a row is 13(or is that overall?).

The problem with right footed wingers on the left is that they don't stay there. I can't speak for Milner so you'll have to tell me whether he does the same but whenever Malbranque is played on the left, he seems to appear everywhere on the pitch other than the position he is meant to be occupying. I don't know if this is because Jol told him to do that or because he can't help himself but he leaves Lee massively exposed and against top teams, with full backs who overlap excellently, Lee would stand no chance. An example would be Man utd. If Malbranque suddenly decides he wants to have a little go on the right, Lee could suddenly find himself against both Ronaldo and Neville, both players who have good end product. Also, a real left winger could give us options. If we are chasing a game, we could throw on the winger who isnt playing and bombard the box with crosses.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Saturday 21 July 2007, 12:09:05 AM
Owen our most important player? Did we sell Shay then or something?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 21 July 2007, 05:12:23 PM
I find some of the arguments on here a bit strange. Can I ask, someone said Owen is your most important player, how exactly is a player who has played a handful of games over the last few seasons a key player? Yes, Owen is very good but it has to be seen how he will recover fully from his injury and whether he can go 10 games without getting injured. Another thing about Newcastle in particular. Your squad is very thin. One thing I learned last season was the importance of a big squad, with players who can come in and do a job. With our buys so far, Im even more confident than last season. Berbatov injured? Just play Bent( not as good but can play up front on his own, with Keane, as well as Defoe.) King injured(again :rolleyes:). Just bring in Kaboul or Rocha. Zokora injured? Bring in Huddlestone for a few games. I dont see Newcastle with that, although of course, that may change by the end of the transfer window. So far, while your signings have been pretty good, they could easily backfire. Rozenthal is unproven( before anyone points it out, yes Kaboul is also unproven). Barton just invites trouble( who beats up a kid, as well as a teammate?) Geremi is an excellent squad player who I wouldnt have minded. Viduka is also very good although he doesnt seem to play a massive amount of games per season. Progress far into both cups and you could easily see league form massively suffer.

People are making excuses for Newcastle while seemingly leaving them out for Arsenal. They lost their best two forwards for most of the season, yet still outscored most teams in the premiership. 4th place was safe well before the season ended so they were playing at a canter for the last few games of the season. If they had us/Everton etc. breathing down their necks, you could bet their mortgage they would have got more points.

The truth is that Arsenal have a better manager and better squad/first eleven than any of the chasing pack. Arsenal dont have any massive problems in their team( except maybe their goalie). You, no real squad depth, Everton the same. Our central midfielders are nowhere near as good as any of the top 4's and we still dont have a left winger. In essence, I believe next season, the top 4 will be the same as before. We will chase Arsenal till quite late in the season but they will eventually win out by 3-4 points. Then there will be a sizable gap and a big scrap for 6th between Newcastle, Everton, Aston Villa, Blackburn and Pompey(although Blackburn and Everton may suffer from cup runs).


Viduka and Martins between them scored 25 PL goals last year...iirc Keane and Berb something similar. Add Owen into the mix and Barton scoring from midfield and I'm pretty positive with 2/3 more of the right signings.

Spurs have almost reached their peak under Jol who has done a goodish job...On the other hand we've hardly got out of the blocks last two seasons and been playing  our 'B' team for many games and still managing a 7th under Roeder. There is a lot more to come from us if fitness and injures don't play a part this year and the people who know say Sam is one of the best at preparing players.

Btw Portsmouth will fade this year imo.


Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 21 July 2007, 05:14:11 PM

tbf i completely agree with SFA, he makes complete sese, ithink its naive to say that own is our most important player, to be honest it only just acceptble to say that he may be our most important player, in my opinion as SFA has said a player like shay given must be considered our most importnant player. he's far too consistent to consider otherwise. As for us finishing above Arsenal, yes i do think its possible, but i am very confident it wont, in my opinion spurs are the only reall contenders for 4th spot if not higher. I think at the moment its fair to say that they may have a better squad than us, plus a manager whos been there for a decent amount of time who has a system in place. I have no doubts about the ability of our manager but i can honestly say that at this point i would be happy if nufc finished in the top 6 for the next 3 years or so. this thread seems to underly the issue nufc fans have...some of the expectations that are dribbled out onto this forum are plain delusional. Of course it fair to say that nufc should be in a position to qualify for CL eventually bt in my opinion the minute you mention CL qualification you automatically assume yourself to be challneger for the title. I think it a correlltion that people dont really think about. Now if anoyone here genuinely belives we maybe title challengers within the next 2 years, please put your hands up and say why?

I think challenging for 4th and the CL is possible next season. But challenging fot the title will take 5 years.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 21 July 2007, 05:15:18 PM
Is Spurs_from_Africa, Invicta_toon, Super_Steve_Howey or the Bazooka_from_viduka?

Why would I be any of those? Its not like Ive come on here to start arguments, I genuinely wanted to have discussions with fans who didnt support Tottenham so I could see the views of other supporters. With regards to the owen thing, I think I'll just back down and agree to disagree. Tbh, the berbatov comparison isnt really the same as Berbatov played most games in the season and won many games for us with his goals, assists etc. As far as Im aware, the most games Owen has played for Newcastle in a row is 13(or is that overall?).

The problem with right footed wingers on the left is that they don't stay there. I can't speak for Milner so you'll have to tell me whether he does the same but whenever Malbranque is played on the left, he seems to appear everywhere on the pitch other than the position he is meant to be occupying. I don't know if this is because Jol told him to do that or because he can't help himself but he leaves Lee massively exposed and against top teams, with full backs who overlap excellently, Lee would stand no chance. An example would be Man utd. If Malbranque suddenly decides he wants to have a little go on the right, Lee could suddenly find himself against both Ronaldo and Neville, both players who have good end product. Also, a real left winger could give us options. If we are chasing a game, we could throw on the winger who isnt playing and bombard the box with crosses.


You need Zog he's available for £15m.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Saturday 21 July 2007, 05:20:53 PM
Owen has never played many games for us in the past, true. But that doesn't make him any less of an important player to us NOW.

If he stays fit (and it's a big if, admittedly) I would be confident he'd have a vastly bigger influence on our season than Shay Given will.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 21 July 2007, 07:57:53 PM
Owen has never played many games for us in the past, true. But that doesn't make him any less of an important player to us NOW.

If he stays fit (and it's a big if, admittedly) I would be confident he'd have a vastly bigger influence on our season than Shay Given will.

Aye...Set him up and he'll finish one in two. FACT.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 29 July 2007, 10:12:07 AM
"Instead, Wenger wants to bring in an Englishman and Roeder fits the bill,with the knowledge of players gleaned during his time as boss at West Ham then Newcastle, from where he was sacked at the end of last season."


 :idiot2: :cheesy: mackems.gif :lol: O0


Petit is worried as well......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=KHMGJW0O0Q15HQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/sport/2007/07/28/sfnpet128.xml






"To be honest, I think they will not finish in the top four," he states boldly, but without pleasure. "Look, I am an Arsenal fan, and I don't think they will even finish fourth. Why? Because when I see Manchester United and Liverpool and Chelsea, they are stronger than them.

"On one game Arsenal can beat anyone, but over a whole season you can feel the strength and power of the other teams. When I see Newcastle, and Tottenham as well, they are becoming stronger. I can understand Freddie," he adds in reference to Ljungberg's outspoken comments about Arsenal's prospects earlier in the week after his defection to West Ham."
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: SeattleToon on Saturday 4 August 2007, 12:56:31 AM
I think that after our signings of Smith, Cacapa, Dragutinovic, and Enrique we definitely have a shot at finishing ahead of Arsenal (and Spurs). Arsenal have been severely weakened by the losses of Henry, Reyes, and Ljungberg, and Spurs have done nothing to improve themselves except overpay for Darren Bent, a player that's going to have a hard time making much of an impact since they already have Berbatov, Keane, and Defoe.

<Snip. Posting fixtures is not allowed, sorry.>
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr Jeckl on Saturday 4 August 2007, 01:07:11 AM
I think that after our signings of Smith, Cacapa, Dragutinovic, and Enrique we definitely have a shot at finishing ahead of Arsenal (and Spurs). Arsenal have been severely weakened by the losses of Henry, Reyes, and Ljungberg, and Spurs have done nothing to improve themselves except overpay for Darren Bent, a player that's going to have a hard time making much of an impact since they already have Berbatov, Keane, and Defoe.

<Snip. Posting fixtures is not allowed, sorry.>

I think like this every year mate,looking at the games we could take points from and what could happen but it never works out quite the way i expect.

But with the way the club is at the moment(new manager,players and board)i really get a feeling this season is going to be different,well hopefully anyway O0
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The Bonk on Saturday 4 August 2007, 01:10:33 AM
I blame this thread for the mess of moaning that happened over the last couple weeks.  THANKS PARKY!!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: SeattleToon on Saturday 4 August 2007, 06:53:17 AM
Also keep in mind that our only match against a top four club before Boxing Day is the home fixture against Liverpool in late November. Up until our away match against Chelsea on Deccember 29th every away match is drawable and every home match winnable. If we play up to our potential (and under Allardyce I think we will), we've got an outside shot at being undefeated on Christmas morning.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: macbeth on Saturday 4 August 2007, 09:42:29 AM
Also keep in mind that our only match against a top four club before Boxing Day is the home fixture against Liverpool in late November. Up until our away match against Chelsea on Deccember 29th every away match is drawable and every home match winnable. If we play up to our potential (and under Allardyce I think we will), we've got an outside shot at being undefeated on Christmas morning.

Our 7 away games up to Xmas, against teams who were in the Premiership last season, gained us 1 (one) point. Have we changed that much in a few months to suddenly not lose to any of them ??
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr Logic on Saturday 4 August 2007, 09:43:46 AM
Yes.




Maybe.




Perhaps.





God, I hope so.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: beardsleymagic on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:10:57 AM
Also keep in mind that our only match against a top four club before Boxing Day is the home fixture against Liverpool in late November. Up until our away match against Chelsea on Deccember 29th every away match is drawable and every home match winnable. If we play up to our potential (and under Allardyce I think we will), we've got an outside shot at being undefeated on Christmas morning.

A tad optimistic I think.... but god I hope your right. O0
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Rey Mysterio on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:23:34 AM
Arsenal will win the premiership this year  :shifty:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:29:05 AM
Arsenal will win the premiership this year  :shifty:

Arsenal will win jack s*** this year.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: SeattleToon on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:21:36 PM
The way Big Sam has gone about building the squad over the summer is giving me a real dose of confidence in his ability to get results once the season starts. It's not just the signings he's made (and the fact that most of them have been complete suprises) through his excellent scouting network, but also the high quality opponents he scheduled for our preseason friendlies. We've got two quality players at every position (when was the last time we had that kind of depth??), and for the first time since SBR, a manager who really seems to know what he's doing.

So yes, it'll probably take a bit of luck to stay undefeated until Boxing Day, but there's not a match out there between now and then that we can't get a point from if we play up to our potential.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: STM on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:23:02 PM
I think we might start poorly and finish well.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:25:37 PM
The way Big Sam has gone about building the squad over the summer is giving me a real dose of confidence in his ability to get results once the season starts. It's not just the signings he's made (and the fact that most of them have been complete suprises) through his excellent scouting network, but also the high quality opponents he scheduled for our preseason friendlies. We've got two quality players at every position (when was the last time we had that kind of depth??), and for the first time since SBR, a manager who really seems to know what he's doing.

So yes, it'll probably take a bit of luck to stay undefeated until Boxing Day, but there's not a match out there between now and then that we can't get a point from if we play up to our potential.


It certainly looks like that looking at the early games, there is no reason we can't get a run going.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Lenny on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:30:59 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shibby on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:32:15 PM
Forget Arsenal! We'll finish above Manure this season! ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:33:32 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.


Well spotted. You see only some of us are gifted with vision.  :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Lenny on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:35:28 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.


Well spotted. You see only some of us are gifted with vision.  :razz:

I never actually understand anything you post so I'm just going to say... OK!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:38:09 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.


Well spotted. You see only some of us are gifted with vision.  :razz:

I never actually understand anything you post so I'm just going to say... OK!

He means that once we had Sam on board and the takeover happened and those first 4 signings came in, he could see which direction we were moving in. Unlike the knee-jerking reactionary morons without any clue or vision who were shitting themselves at the Smith deal COZ WE NEEED DEFENDAAAAAZ.

I think that sums it up.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:39:43 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.


Well spotted. You see only some of us are gifted with vision.  :razz:

I never actually understand anything you post so I'm just going to say... OK!

He means that once we had Sam on board and the takeover happened and those first 4 signings came in, he could see which direction we were moving in. Unlike the knee-jerking reactionary morons without any clue or vision who were shitting themselves at the Smith deal COZ WE NEEED DEFENDAAAAAZ.

I think that sums it up.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Lenny on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:40:41 PM
I find it quite amusing how this thread was created round about the time we signed our first batch of players, then went away for the time we was struggling with signings and now the latest influx is happening its back again!

But, tbh I think that any position right up to 4th is not beyond us since Arsenal havent really strengthened, and Spurs have just spent/wasted money on positions they were already ok in! Just need a bit of luck, and a lack of injuries.


Well spotted. You see only some of us are gifted with vision.  :razz:

I never actually understand anything you post so I'm just going to say... OK!

He means that once we had Sam on board and the takeover happened and those first 4 signings came in, he could see which direction we were moving in. Unlike the knee-jerking reactionary morons without any clue or vision who were shitting themselves at the Smith deal COZ WE NEEED DEFENDAAAAAZ.

I think that sums it up.

Cool! tbh honest Im being a hypocrite because Im pretty kneejerk myself but I avoid the tempation of screaming we're going to win the league on here and just think it! cos we are you no...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Phil K on Saturday 4 August 2007, 05:58:51 PM
If you don't think positive, you don't GET positive.
That said, I find it highly unlikely we'll finish above Arsenal.
Above Aston Villa and Spuds would be more realistic to aim at.
But...for the first time in 3 seasons, I'm excited at what might be.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: sombrero on Saturday 4 August 2007, 06:02:40 PM
Arsenal will win the premiership this year  :shifty:

Arsenal will win jack s*** this year.
hahahaha
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: jamesmartinsmith on Saturday 4 August 2007, 06:05:22 PM
On paper, this is probably the weakest Arsenal squad I've seen.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 06:34:20 PM
On paper, this is probably the weakest Arsenal squad I've seen.

Even if they are goodish players and admittedly some with a lot of promise, they are still very young.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: b0f on Saturday 4 August 2007, 06:53:48 PM
I think the difference between arsenal having a good season and arsenal not is Van Persie. If hes fit i think they'll do very well. I'm certianly not on top of the "Spurs are on the up you know?" to the "Spurs are going to be the dark horse for the title" bandwagons.

I think we're going to take some time to settle in. Come end of november I rekon we'll be in the top half of the table and then we'll see a good run of results over Christmas. Its going to be a good season, we just need to get behind them!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Phil K on Saturday 4 August 2007, 07:08:24 PM
I still think Man U Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea will occupy the first four positions.
I'd love to be wrong, but I believe if one of them is to lose out, I dont think it'll be the Arse.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 07:15:55 PM
Arsenal under wenger tend to have these baron patches where the big names go and the unknowns come in. To be fair those big names were the unknowns before wenger signed them. Theres every chance that Da Silva and co will be brilliant from the off. Personally I also think Van Persie will have his season this season. some of our new players to me are exciting because of their experience and what their former supporters are saying about them, but in all fairness Ive never seen Cacapa, drago or Enrique play. Forgive me for sounding downbeat but I think supporting newcastle has taught me to be cautiously optimistic.....f*** it, we can do it.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 07:56:55 PM
Arsenal under wenger tend to have these baron patches where the big names go and the unknowns come in. To be fair those big names were the unknowns before wenger signed them. Theres every chance that Da Silva and co will be brilliant from the off. Personally I also think Van Persie will have his season this season. some of our new players to me are exciting because of their experience and what their former supporters are saying about them, but in all fairness Ive never seen Cacapa, drago or Enrique play. Forgive me for sounding downbeat but I think supporting newcastle has taught me to be cautiously optimistic.....f*** it, we can do it.


Still not convinced Van Purdy will really cut it in the PL. He's had enough goes.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 08:01:16 PM
Start of last season he was amazing before he got injured. thats what Im basing it on.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 08:05:30 PM
Start of last season he was amazing before he got injured. thats what Im basing it on.

I don't really see him as a striker more as the support/creative forward who will chip in 10-12 goals. That is how he used to play in Holland and he is clever enough for that role. The problem Arsenal have is who is going to get a bucketfull of goals? Anwers on a postcard to sweetpassingnoendproduct.coma
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Saturday 4 August 2007, 08:06:32 PM
Start of last season he was amazing before he got injured. thats what Im basing it on.

I don't really see him as a striker more as the support/creative forward who will chip in 10-12 goals. That is how he used to play in Holland and he is clever enough for that role. The problem Arsenal have is who is going to get a bucketfull of goals? Anwers on a postcard to sweetpassingnoendproduct.coma

He scored that many before he got injured last season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 4 August 2007, 08:12:02 PM
Start of last season he was amazing before he got injured. thats what Im basing it on.

I don't really see him as a striker more as the support/creative forward who will chip in 10-12 goals. That is how he used to play in Holland and he is clever enough for that role. The problem Arsenal have is who is going to get a bucketfull of goals? Anwers on a postcard to sweetpassingnoendproduct.coma

He scored that many before he got injured last season.


I'm sorry a goal every 3.42 games doen't cut the poacher mustard matey.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:00:27 PM
Start of last season he was amazing before he got injured. thats what Im basing it on.

I don't really see him as a striker more as the support/creative forward who will chip in 10-12 goals. That is how he used to play in Holland and he is clever enough for that role. The problem Arsenal have is who is going to get a bucketfull of goals? Anwers on a postcard to sweetpassingnoendproduct.coma

He scored that many before he got injured last season.


I'm sorry a goal every 3.42 games doen't cut the poacher mustard matey.

Never said he was a poacher, just you said he will chip in with 10-12 goals when he'd scored those by January last season including times playing out wide.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:30:02 PM
Ameobi scored 5 by October, so by that reckoning, he'd have scored 20.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:42:38 PM
Ameobi scored 5 by October, so by that reckoning, he'd have scored 20.

Such a shame isn't it that he isn't anywhere near the level of Van Persie isn't it?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:43:58 PM
He's a good player. No more, no less.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:49:02 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:50:42 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:51:46 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

:lol:

He was on about Van Persie. I don't think even Shola himself would describe him that way.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:51:48 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

Ehhhhhhh?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:52:39 PM
Van Persie is one of their main men this season, and I think he'll step up the plate. He's dangerous.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:52:55 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

:lol:

He was on about Van Persie. I don't think even Shola himself would describe him that way.

Balls too much beer.

Van Persie is class mind. Will get 20 goals no problem if he stays fit.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: toontownman on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:53:37 PM
Arsene's spending isnt over just yet, he has already mentioned one or two more are what he is hoping for, but time is running down now.

I must say I gave a wry smile at the earlier suggestions that we might possibly be able to push Arsenal for the fourth spot, especially with Spurs already biting at the Gooners heels.

Should we manage to sew up these holes in our squad pockets this week and Arsenal fail to pick up two or more quality additions to the squad the posess, the thought isnt quite as far fetched as I thought. albeit a fools hope.

The key to our season lies in the new defence gelling and working well. We have an increasingly diverse and quality laden attack. The experience we lacked last season has come in and the management and structure is changing for the better.

Although its not the finest indication, I was certainly pleasantly suprised with how great our passing and attack has looked against Celtic and Juve, with many players missing. We are and will most likely be miles behind Arsenals slick passing and creativity, but our squad has arguably more star prowess, albeit not the same level as potential.

Whilst Hansen will always be ribbed for his comments about never winning things with kids, his argument is generally sound, he just forgot to add "and without a phenomenal manager" on the end.

Every team needs a sprinkling of everything, thats something I believe we do have over Arsenal. Due to the amount of young players they have next season could go one of two ways for Arsenal, they will break through that potential barrier as a team and be immense or they might well struggle with the amount the other clubs have spent and improved around them.

I certainly think, whilst the title race might be more or less cut and dryed, this promises to be the most exciting premiership year since its inception.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Saturday 4 August 2007, 10:55:03 PM
Arsene's spending isnt over just yet, he has already mentioned one or two more are what he is hoping for, but time is running down now.

I must say I gave a wry smile at the earlier suggestions that we might possibly be able to push Arsenal for the fourth spot, especially with Spurs already biting at the Gooners heels.

Should we manage to sew up these holes in our squad pockets this week and Arsenal fail to pick up two or more quality additions to the squad the posess, the thought isnt quite as far fetched as I thought. albeit a fools hope.

The key to our season lies in the new defence gelling and working well. We have an increasingly diverse and quality laden attack. The experience we lacked last season has come in and the management and structure is changing for the better.

Although its not the finest indication, I was certainly pleasantly suprised with how great our passing and attack has looked against Celtic and Juve, with many players missing. We are and will most likely be miles behind Arsenals slick passing and creativity, but our squad has arguably more star prowess, albeit not the same level as potential.

Whilst Hansen will always be ribbed for his comments about never winning things with kids, his argument is generally sound, he just forgot to add "and without a phenomenal manager" on the end.

Every team needs a sprinkling of everything, thats something I believe we do have over Arsenal. Due to the amount of young players they have next season could go one of two ways for Arsenal, they will break through that potential barrier as a team and be immense or they might well struggle with the amount the other clubs have spent and improved around them.

I certainly think, whilst the title race might be more or less cut and dryed, this promises to be the most exciting premiership year since its inception.

Top post. I agree too. I think Man U will run away with it and from there down who knows..
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: microbar on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:06:48 PM
Would be happy to finish in the top 8 this year,
players have to gell,
And sams training regime staff etc,
will take at least 1 season to come together.
But feeling positive about this season maybe league cup winners,
would be a nice start.  :celb:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:08:42 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

:lol:

He was on about Van Persie. I don't think even Shola himself would describe him that way.

Balls too much beer.

Van Persie is class mind. Will get 20 goals no problem if he stays fit.

"20 goals no problem".

Think that last season only Drogba managed that in the whole league. Here's my prediction, our 4 strikers of Owen, Viduka, Martins & Smith, to outscore van Persie, Adabayor, Walcott & Eduardo in the Premiership.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:12:37 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

:lol:

He was on about Van Persie. I don't think even Shola himself would describe him that way.

Balls too much beer.

Van Persie is class mind. Will get 20 goals no problem if he stays fit.

"20 goals no problem".

Think that last season only Drogba managed that in the whole league. Here's my prediction, our 4 strikers of Owen, Viduka, Martins & Smith, to outscore van Persie, Adabayor, Walcott & Eduardo in the Premiership.

To be fair van persie had 11 till he got injured in Jan. I think he will reach it.

:)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:16:23 PM
11 in January doesn't mean he'd mirror that afterwards though! Might be wrong, but the 1995-6 season I'm fairly sure Ferdinand scored about 18 for us by then, then only 5 or something in the last 4 months.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:20:37 PM
11 in January doesn't mean he'd mirror that afterwards though! Might be wrong, but the 1995-6 season I'm fairly sure Ferdinand scored about 18 for us by then, then only 5 or something in the last 4 months.

We shall see!

:)

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:21:15 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

Ehhhhhhh?

Aye I was talking about Van Porsey.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:24:18 PM
11 in January doesn't mean he'd mirror that afterwards though! Might be wrong, but the 1995-6 season I'm fairly sure Ferdinand scored about 18 for us by then, then only 5 or something in the last 4 months.

We shall see!

:)


Just looked, and Ferdinand scored 18 in 20, then 7 in 17. I bet if he'd injured himself in January, and we'd only finished 2nd, people would have said, "If Ferdinand had been fit he'd have scored 30 goals so we'd have won the league". Obviously, we know we, and he, wouldn't have.

Same applies to van Persie I reckon, 10-12 goal a season striker.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:25:32 PM
Think about last year though, Man U bought Carrick and Vidic, Chelsea had already won the title the year before and they bought Ballack and Shevchenko. I thought Chelsea were gunna take the gap even further but they didnt partly because of injuries to Cech and Terry and partly because of 2 signings man u made that you wouldnt have thought would make much difference, oh aye and that ginger ninja in midfield coming back. I hope its closer this year, I still cant see Liverpool getting anywhere near them though. Id like to see Torres do well though.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:28:13 PM
I think it's going to be tight between Man Utd & Chelsea, Liverpool will be in limbo, nowhere near top 2, but miles clear of 4th, while Arsenal & Spurs will be closely matched for 4th spot, but I also reckon there'll be one shock club (one of ourselves, City, etc), who over-perform, or click straight away or whatever, that seriously challenge them.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:32:44 PM
Aye, i think one of us, Man City, Villa or West Ham. Hopefully us then City and Villa then West Ham relegated for having ideas above their station.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr Logic on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:53:56 PM
It's perhaps not rocket science but it has just struck me anyway.

Next season might see the best defensive record for Newcastle in a long time; also, in theory, we should score a lot more than the last couple of seasons. Add those two maybes together and they total a higher than mid-table finish.

I'm sticking with my 6th place and gaining Europe one way or the other.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Saturday 4 August 2007, 11:56:49 PM
Its funny how much time, and a lack of watching football weekly either makes you really optimistic or really pessimistic. I keep getting excited then thinking back to 95-96 and stopping myself on average 20 times a day.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 5 August 2007, 01:36:06 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 5 August 2007, 01:44:24 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 5 August 2007, 01:45:10 AM
Believe it when I see it with Arsenal. I still think they'll roll most teams over.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:28:19 AM
Believe it when I see it with Arsenal. I still think they'll roll most teams over.

Agree 100%.

Quality side still. A few unknowns to come in (Bentner) but I think they will be rate.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:32:49 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:35:02 AM
Wenger will produce another side just like Ferguson has been producing new sides for years now. Its what quality managers do. Their kids were amazing last year, ours were s**** againt Hull. That says a lot imo.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:37:21 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!

...................Lemon................
Sagna..Gallas...Toure...Clichy
Hleb..Gilberto.Fabregas..Rosicky
.........V.Persie..Eduardo...........


Still a very good side that with some really quality depth and many youngsters who will make steps up.

..................Fabianski....................
Eboue....Djourou..Senderos..Traore
Wallcott..Denilson.Song........Randall
..............Bendtner..Vela~(1 year till passport)



Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:41:59 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!

...................Lemon................
Sagna..Gallas...Toure...Clichy
Hleb..Gilberto.Fabregas..Rosicky
.........V.Persie..Eduardo...........


Still a very good side that with some really quality depth and many youngsters who will make steps up.



Those would get in our side. Not sure on the new ones.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:43:26 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!

...................Lemon................
Sagna..Gallas...Toure...Clichy
Hleb..Gilberto.Fabregas..Rosicky
.........V.Persie..Eduardo...........


Still a very good side that with some really quality depth and many youngsters who will make steps up.



Those would get in our side. Not sure on the new ones.

Right wing is their weak link IMO. Hleb just isn't good enough for me.  Shame they let Bentley go!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:46:58 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!

...................Lemon................
Sagna..Gallas...Toure...Clichy
Hleb..Gilberto.Fabregas..Rosicky
.........V.Persie..Eduardo...........


Still a very good side that with some really quality depth and many youngsters who will make steps up.



Those would get in our side. Not sure on the new ones.

Even though I have NEVER seen him I reckon Sagna would walk into our side :D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:48:12 AM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!

...................Lemon................
Sagna..Gallas...Toure...Clichy
Hleb..Gilberto.Fabregas..Rosicky
.........V.Persie..Eduardo...........


Still a very good side that with some really quality depth and many youngsters who will make steps up.



Those would get in our side. Not sure on the new ones.

Even though I have NEVER seen him I reckon Sagna would walk into our side :D

He has awesome hair! :D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:49:28 AM
Well (for me anyway) Eboue would walk into our team at right back so if Sagna beats him to the punch then logically so would he.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:52:45 AM
Arsenal look tasty tbh, even Sagna and Eduardo are meant to be quality and i wouldnt bet against them being a success next year. Parky, disagree, we still have work to do.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: OzzieMandias on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:53:16 AM
Extremely foolish to write off Arsenal. Yeah, they look the most fragile of the "Big Four", but that young side was awesome at times last year, and there's no reason to suppose they won't improve. Wenger hasn't suddenly become an idiot. He's a one-off, though.

With other clubs, I think we're seeing a ceiling to how much money can improve a squad. When you get to the top end of anything, not just football, you start paying more and more for smaller and smaller increases in quality. Thus Man U spunking tens of millions on two or three players. Thus Chelsea not really buying anyone at all, because even with their spending power, who are they going to buy?

Spurs, I reckon, have hit that ceiling. They've developed their squad very cleverly and sensibly, but now they've reached the point that any significant improvements are going to cost more than they can afford. This is the true gap between the top four and the rest. These days, at the very highest level, you have to start forking out £20-30 million for players that can make a difference. Spurs can't really improve right now, unless their current squad takes them further.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:53:34 AM
Well (for me anyway) Eboue would walk into our team at right back so if Sagna beats him to the punch then logically so would he.

Eboue is top. He was amazing the season before last!

My dad is an arsenal fan and so is my best mate so I see a lot of Arsenal. Good side and as you said John I think everyone underrates them on here!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 5 August 2007, 02:56:30 AM
Extremely foolish to write off Arsenal. Yeah, they look the most fragile of the "Big Four", but that young side was awesome at times last year, and there's no reason to suppose they won't improve. Wenger hasn't suddenly become an idiot. He's a one-off, though.

With other clubs, I think we're seeing a ceiling to how much money can improve a squad. When you get to the top end of anything, not just football, you start paying more and more for smaller and smaller increases in quality. Thus Man U spunking tens of millions on two or three players. Thus Chelsea not really buying anyone at all, because even with their spending power, who are they going to buy?

Spurs, I reckon, have hit that ceiling. They've developed their squad very cleverly and sensibly, but now they've reached the point that any significant improvements are going to cost more than they can afford. This is the true gap between the top four and the rest. These days, at the very highest level, you have to start forking out £20-30 million for players that can make a difference. Spurs can't really improve right now, unless their current squad takes them further.

Good post.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Sunday 5 August 2007, 03:04:25 AM
Extremely foolish to write off Arsenal. Yeah, they look the most fragile of the "Big Four", but that young side was awesome at times last year, and there's no reason to suppose they won't improve. Wenger hasn't suddenly become an idiot. He's a one-off, though.

With other clubs, I think we're seeing a ceiling to how much money can improve a squad. When you get to the top end of anything, not just football, you start paying more and more for smaller and smaller increases in quality. Thus Man U spunking tens of millions on two or three players. Thus Chelsea not really buying anyone at all, because even with their spending power, who are they going to buy?

Spurs, I reckon, have hit that ceiling. They've developed their squad very cleverly and sensibly, but now they've reached the point that any significant improvements are going to cost more than they can afford. This is the true gap between the top four and the rest. These days, at the very highest level, you have to start forking out £20-30 million for players that can make a difference. Spurs can't really improve right now, unless their current squad takes them further.

Very good post. On the bright side, Wenger wont be at Arsenal forever and Ferguson's days are numbered.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 5 August 2007, 03:09:01 AM
Extremely foolish to write off Arsenal. Yeah, they look the most fragile of the "Big Four", but that young side was awesome at times last year, and there's no reason to suppose they won't improve. Wenger hasn't suddenly become an idiot. He's a one-off, though.

With other clubs, I think we're seeing a ceiling to how much money can improve a squad. When you get to the top end of anything, not just football, you start paying more and more for smaller and smaller increases in quality. Thus Man U spunking tens of millions on two or three players. Thus Chelsea not really buying anyone at all, because even with their spending power, who are they going to buy?

Spurs, I reckon, have hit that ceiling. They've developed their squad very cleverly and sensibly, but now they've reached the point that any significant improvements are going to cost more than they can afford. This is the true gap between the top four and the rest. These days, at the very highest level, you have to start forking out £20-30 million for players that can make a difference. Spurs can't really improve right now, unless their current squad takes them further.

Very good post. On the bright side, Wenger wont be at Arsenal forever and Ferguson's days are numbered.

Fergie wants the Champions League again doesn't he, hasn't it been suggested he'll then retire?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Sunday 5 August 2007, 03:14:46 AM
Extremely foolish to write off Arsenal. Yeah, they look the most fragile of the "Big Four", but that young side was awesome at times last year, and there's no reason to suppose they won't improve. Wenger hasn't suddenly become an idiot. He's a one-off, though.

With other clubs, I think we're seeing a ceiling to how much money can improve a squad. When you get to the top end of anything, not just football, you start paying more and more for smaller and smaller increases in quality. Thus Man U spunking tens of millions on two or three players. Thus Chelsea not really buying anyone at all, because even with their spending power, who are they going to buy?

Spurs, I reckon, have hit that ceiling. They've developed their squad very cleverly and sensibly, but now they've reached the point that any significant improvements are going to cost more than they can afford. This is the true gap between the top four and the rest. These days, at the very highest level, you have to start forking out £20-30 million for players that can make a difference. Spurs can't really improve right now, unless their current squad takes them further.

Very good post. On the bright side, Wenger wont be at Arsenal forever and Ferguson's days are numbered.

Fergie wants the Champions League again doesn't he, hasn't it been suggested he'll then retire?

Tomorrow's game may provide some clues as to whether its going to happen for Fergie. He certainly seems to have another phenomenal side.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Texasmag on Sunday 5 August 2007, 04:12:27 AM
A reporter for the Guardian is predicting Sunderland will finish the season higher than us and Boro. :idiot2:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 5 August 2007, 08:11:09 AM
Arsenal look tasty tbh, even Sagna and Eduardo are meant to be quality and i wouldnt bet against them being a success next year. Parky, disagree, we still have work to do.

Eduardo has looked a class act in this Amsterdam Tournament, a very good all round game, I am expecting big things of him.  blueyes.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: firetotheworks on Sunday 5 August 2007, 09:09:22 AM
People go on about Hleb not being good enough but I dont think Ive ever seen him play badly. Can anyone give any good examples of when he's looked s****? I think its quite easy to write off Arsenal at the moment with the players theyve lost over the last few seasons, but as someone said above they'll probably beat most teams. I cant see them winning it this season but I dont think you can write off their quality.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: tmonkey on Sunday 5 August 2007, 09:15:37 AM
Ajax v Arsenal replay is on SS1, some great football by Arsenal.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 5 August 2007, 10:11:16 AM
They've got talent all over the park it's ridiculous, only thing at times I think they need a real destroyer in the centre of the park. Saying that mind Diaby looks like he has all of the abilities to fill that role.

Denilson is going to be fantastic as well.  blueyes.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pip on Sunday 5 August 2007, 10:25:33 AM
Hleb is quality. His dribbling is sensational man :lol: reminds me of McManaman back in the day - the ball is never more than a few feet away from him

Arsenal are, as ever I think, underrated. It's almost shocking to see that they have a net spending of -£10.5m but more than a few teams will be getting a drubbing off of them. Expect Fabregas to step-up even, especially with the captain's armband and all (iirc he was given it). They're still spectacular to watch and now maybe have enough firepower up front to push Chelsea and Manyoo. If Eduardo turns out to be another Anelka/Henry then they'll challenge for the title - no doubt.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 5 August 2007, 10:29:43 AM
I can't see us finishing above Arsenal myself, talk of their demise is a little premature, no, given the talent they have in abundance and a small question of Arsene Wenger as their manager. As long as he's around and able to run the club his way, they will always be a force. I expect them to finish in the top 4 once again although I think Spurs could push them hard. That said, long-term it isn't out of the question. Last season Bolton pushed them hard for 4th place until the wheels fell off at the final stretch of the season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: SUPERTOON on Sunday 5 August 2007, 10:31:23 AM
The only teams with a chance of finishing above Arsenal are Liverpool Chelsea and Man UTd they are just too good for the rest.

Top 4 this season

Man Utd
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 5 August 2007, 10:32:41 AM
Our season will depend on our start and the support of fans on the stands, if neither is good enough, we'll struggle but finish strongly ready for next season which is for me, more important than this one in the grande scheme of things.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:37:15 PM
Im not saying anything about stats. All i said was that I thought he was amazing last season before he got injured and that I think next season will be his season to shine.

I agree. He was starting to show some promise. Good 5th choice anyway. Offers something different up front be is big and awkward. Bet he's hard to play against coz no one knows what he will do next!

:lol:

He was on about Van Persie. I don't think even Shola himself would describe him that way.

Balls too much beer.

Van Persie is class mind. Will get 20 goals no problem if he stays fit.

"20 goals no problem".

Think that last season only Drogba managed that in the whole league. Here's my prediction, our 4 strikers of Owen, Viduka, Martins & Smith, to outscore van Persie, Adabayor, Walcott & Eduardo in the Premiership.


You rarely see so much guff talked about Van Persie. He won't score 20 league goals and I'll take that bet with anyone on here.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:39:23 PM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!


They are miles off where they were 2/3 years ago. Utter quality going back to Viera etc just hasn't been replaced.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:40:25 PM
Van Persie is class, not an out-and-out goalscorer though so won't be getting 20 league goals.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:42:50 PM
Van Persie is class, not an out-and-out goalscorer though so won't be getting 20 league goals.

He's only class in the 'look at me I'm class' kind of way...He isn't and never will be a destroyer like Henry or Drogba.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:45:06 PM
Van Persie is class, not an out-and-out goalscorer though so won't be getting 20 league goals.

He's only class in the 'look at me I'm class' kind of way...He isn't and never will be a destroyer like Henry or Drogba.

I've not read the rest of the thread tbh, but that's a ridiculous pair of players to expect him to be as good as.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: STM on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:47:01 PM
I think Van Persie might shock a few and bag himself a few goals this season. Might not hit 20 but not far off.

If some of Arsenals other players chip in i don't think they will have much problem TBH.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:49:46 PM
Van Persie is class, not an out-and-out goalscorer though so won't be getting 20 league goals.

He's only class in the 'look at me I'm class' kind of way...He isn't and never will be a destroyer like Henry or Drogba.

I've not read the rest of the thread tbh, but that's a ridiculous pair of players to expect him to be as good as.


Well people are saying he's 'going to step upto the plate' and 'he'll get 20 goals'....He won't and he never will. Just isn't 20 goal material. I'd say someone like Torres has a chance to score more than him next term and indeed Obafindmeanewclub.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: afar on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:52:42 PM
Even with all our new signings we are still a mile away from Tottenham, let alone Arsenal. Lets not get carried away, this will be a season of stability, maybe squeak into europe and if we've done that we've done really well.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:55:53 PM
Even with all our new signings we are still a mile away from Tottenham, let alone Arsenal. Lets not get carried away, this will be a season of stability, maybe squeak into europe and if we've done that we've done really well.


Why are we a mile away from Spurs?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:56:50 PM
Fancy a wager Parky?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 05:57:43 PM
Fancy a wager Parky?


Always interested? :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 5 August 2007, 06:02:55 PM
They've got talent all over the park it's ridiculous, only thing at times I think they need a real destroyer in the centre of the park. Saying that mind Diaby looks like he has all of the abilities to fill that role.

Denilson is going to be fantastic as well.  blueyes.gif


Diaby has looked good in pre-season and is beginning to have that driving Viera look about him when he plays in the middle.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Sunday 5 August 2007, 06:09:23 PM
People really under-rate Arsenal!

Nowt special. If we look back to the 2005-6 season where they just scraped into 4th, they've lost Cole, Pires, Ljungberg & Henry, whereas Spurs are much stronger.

Scraped by 8 points, when did Pires and Cole go? Ljungberg has been average at best for a while, Henry hardly played last season, they have signed new players and will have (with any luck for them) have Van Persie back for more games. They also have a young squad which will improve with experience.

As said, I dont see why people are so down on them!


They are miles off where they were 2/3 years ago. Utter quality going back to Viera etc just hasn't been replaced.

and we were a million miles off them last season, not sure we have done enough to close the gap just yet.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 11:50:38 AM
Might be a little step. But we made the first step yesterday. If just some organisation can give us that much I'm really looking forward to the time when we field our best players and the team has gelled.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Inferior Acuña on Sunday 12 August 2007, 12:12:23 PM
Might be a little step. But we made the first step yesterday. If just some organisation can give us that much I'm really looking forward to the time when we field our best players and the team has gelled.

And Arsenal are currently set for a step back (1-0 to fulham)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Sunday 12 August 2007, 12:14:19 PM
Thanks to a big german lemon.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 12 August 2007, 12:22:11 PM
Might be a little step. But we made the first step yesterday. If just some organisation can give us that much I'm really looking forward to the time when we field our best players and the team has gelled.

And Arsenal are currently set for a step back (1-0 to fulham)

Only serve to spur (arf) Arsenal on tbh. 3-1 FT.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 12:47:40 PM
Might be a little step. But we made the first step yesterday. If just some organisation can give us that much I'm really looking forward to the time when we field our best players and the team has gelled.

And Arsenal are currently set for a step back (1-0 to fulham)

Only serve to spur (arf) Arsenal on tbh. 3-1 FT.

They're all over the place Dave. VanPoncey invisible.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:28:31 PM
Performance of the weekend by Tony Warner so far..........
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:36:39 PM
Wenger looks miserable.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:47:04 PM
Ha ha...Took 5 Arse players to get the ball back from Warner...Diop runs off with it....

Typical late in the game run into the box and look for dive...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Wullie on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:49:49 PM
Ha ha...Took 5 Arse players to get the ball back from Warner...Diop runs off with it....

Typical late in the game run into the box and look for dive...

Clear penalty tbh.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Baggio on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:51:23 PM
2-1 Arsenal.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:54:12 PM
2-1 Arsenal.

Everything that is wrong with Arsenal on show today. Won't win jack s*** this year. Stuggling at home to probable relegation candidates.
Wonger tried to use Diaby as a winger. :laugh:

No end product after a million passes no natural goalscorer on show and no goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:54:56 PM
Ha ha...Took 5 Arse players to get the ball back from Warner...Diop runs off with it....

Typical late in the game run into the box and look for dive...

Clear penalty tbh.

Toure always does that late in the game...That's why he's in my PL fantasy team.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:55:15 PM
Struggling?

They've been all over them.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 01:57:00 PM
Struggling?

They've been all over them.

I lost count of the teams they were 'all over' last year.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 12 August 2007, 02:01:59 PM
But you said they were struggling? They have been all over them, they were struggling to find the back of the net, but to say they are struggling in general is not correct.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 02:08:43 PM
But you said they were struggling? They have been all over them, they were struggling to find the back of the net, but to say they are struggling in general is not correct.

I stand corrected then.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 12 August 2007, 02:11:14 PM
But you said they were struggling? They have been all over them, they were struggling to find the back of the net, but to say they are struggling in general is not correct.

I stand corrected then.

Said the man in the orthopedic shoes. ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Sunday 12 August 2007, 02:50:50 PM
Fulham would have won if Parky hadn't bumped this thread.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 02:54:30 PM
Fulham would have won if Parky hadn't bumped this thread.

I was thinking the same...But could I resist? No.

There's a few closet Wengaboys on here as I'm slowly discovering.  :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Delima on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:11:29 PM
Arsenal missed many chances and still managed to win - doomed

Man Utd missed many chances against a side with 1 man down, and didn't win - must be doomer than the doomed by Parky's logic :p
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Decky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:12:52 PM
Course we will finish above Arsenal sure we are gonna win the league you morons :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:26:17 PM
Wenger needs to change his game plan to compete now, as he simply doesn't have the personnel to win the league playing like they do, like he had a few years back.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Decky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:27:46 PM
I wonder if letting players like Viera and Henry go looks so rosey to Wenger now.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:30:47 PM
If they keep Wenger the team will be s*** hot within a year or two tbh.

I'd expect Fabregas and Van Persie will step up and really start running the show now. Fabregas does already, I suppose, but RVP will be the breakout star of the Premiership season IMO.

If Eduardo turns out to be the goalgetter they need then they'll be very strong.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:36:09 PM
aye, i was very impressive with van persie today. although his goal came from a penalty he was a constant threat. henry would have just sulked after 60 or so minutes with things not going arsenals way but van persie kept it up till the end.

and i was expecting hleb to pass the ball in the end, i was gobsmacked when he buried the ball in the net.

arsenal for league, you heard it here first!

besides, for all this bollocks about arsenal lacking experience - the only goal was entirely down to the most experienced player in the lineup.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:39:42 PM
aye, i was very impressive with van persie today. although his goal came from a penalty he was a constant threat. henry would have just sulked after 60 or so minutes with things not going arsenals way but van persie kept it up till the end.

and i was expecting hleb to pass the ball in the end, i was gobsmacked when he buried the ball in the net.

arsenal for league, you heard it here first!

besides, for all this bollocks about arsenal lacking experience - the only goal was entirely down to the most experienced player in the lineup.

Welcome to the forum Eduardo. :morph:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:42:58 PM
thank you, i love england!!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:48:45 PM
Wenger needs to change his game plan to compete now, as he simply doesn't have the personnel to win the league playing like they do, like he had a few years back.

They pass it around so much it gives the opposition too much time to re-organise. Helb playing well? The opposition must have been poor. He's normally the first to dissapear when things get hot. Saw nothing from VanPoncey today to change my mind....Oh and the penalty was a whisker from hitting the bar.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:50:22 PM
Having a go at his well placed penalty, how low have you sunk Parky?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:52:35 PM
Having a go at his well placed penalty, how low have you sunk Parky?

It was nearly over the bar man! :razz:

Arsenal alaway to this at home if they haven't scored. Toure and the like start running full pelt into the box looking for contact.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:53:41 PM
Clear penalty and well-taken penalty kick.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:54:27 PM
Clear penalty and well-taken penalty kick.

Is he the designated taker now?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:56:46 PM
how do i know, i'm not an arsenal fan! :P

edit: i forgot i'm eduardo. yeh, he's the designated penalty kick taker now.  >:D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:57:11 PM
Clear penalty and well-taken penalty kick.

Is he the designated taker now?

I would hope not with penalties like that.

Sure it was a rocket, high and into the corner, completely unsavable.

But other than that it was pretty s***.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:57:56 PM
what was s*** about it?

even van der saar couldn't have saved it last sunday.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:58:07 PM
If they keep Wenger the team will be s*** hot within a year or two tbh.

I'd expect Fabregas and Van Persie will step up and really start running the show now. Fabregas does already, I suppose, but RVP will be the breakout star of the Premiership season IMO.

If Eduardo turns out to be the goalgetter they need then they'll be very strong.

Eduardo will make a differance not sure why he didn't start today. I really expect them to buy another winger or attacking midfielder. They haven't got enough from what I saw yesterday.

Eboue needs to go to right back.


Wenger looks frustrated. Good football but they always looking for that extra two or three passes.


There surely isn't anyone on this site who would have VP instead of Martins!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: makemeacupoftea on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:59:39 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 06:59:53 PM
eboue doesn't defend well enough to be a right-back. i think wegner has switched his position to right midfield.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:01:00 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:01:13 PM
eboue doesn't defend well enough to be a right-back. i think wegner has switched his position to right midfield.

Where he was subbed yesterday for being ineffectual.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:01:39 PM
I think Wednesday would have been an ideal time to play these, shame about the Champions League Qualifiers. Not for the fact Arsenal are bad or anything, just we're on a high and I think the atmosphere in midweek would have been excellent with how we've been doing this pre-season and on Saturday.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:02:33 PM
The game was on today Parky. :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:03:08 PM
I think Wednesday would have been an ideal time to play these, shame about the Champions League Qualifiers. Not for the fact Arsenal are bad or anything, just we're on a high and I think the atmosphere in midweek would have been excellent with how we've been doing this pre-season and on Saturday.

Agree. Also they really are lacking a marshall in midfield. If we'd have played them this week I'd fancy us to get a result.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:03:42 PM
The game was on today Parky. :lol:

So it was. Sorry just had a couple of sherries with dinner.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pip on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:04:26 PM
Eboue needs to stay at right-back, or preferably on the bench since Sagna looked good today. Arsenal do need another midfielder, Parky's right there. But maybe, Parky, you might wanna wait until they lose before writing off their season :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:04:43 PM
The game was on today Parky. :lol:

So it was. Sorry just had a couple of sherries with dinner.

Lightweight tbh.

I can see why you and Bluf get along so well.  :frantic:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:07:15 PM
One thing that people also seem to forget about Arsenal, is that they carry this aura and that alone often beats teams or gives them the upper hand, same with Man Utd and Chelsea and to some extent Liverpool. We used to have it under KK and Sir Bobby, where teams would be shitting themselves at the prospect of facing us or be really negative in their setup, approach and play.

The good news for us, is that under Sam, Bolton also had a "oh no, not them, anyone but them" aura :D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:10:40 PM
Eboue needs to stay at right-back, or preferably on the bench since Sagna looked good today. Arsenal do need another midfielder, Parky's right there. But maybe, Parky, you might wanna wait until they lose before writing off their season :lol:

Written it off before they played tbh. :razz:

















*This is probably only temporary till Rafa does something I can get my teeth into. :laugh:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:10:50 PM
HTT you're getting as bad as Parky with all of this talk about auras and such.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:11:34 PM
Agree that they could do with a top class winger, someone to really stretch teams and create more room through the middle. Eduardo is useful in the air apparently so they'd also benefit from crossing it more.

Don't expect Eboue to do much on the wing on a consistent basis.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Delima on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:14:57 PM
Agree that they could do with a top class winger, someone to really stretch teams and create more room through the middle. Eduardo is useful in the air apparently so they'd also benefit from crossing it more.

Don't expect Eboue to do much on the wing on a consistent basis.

In the pre season the combination of Eboue and Sagna was excellent apparently
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: tuppence on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:18:53 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:21:15 PM
HTT you're getting as bad as Parky with all of this talk about auras and such.

I'm right though, they do have an aura about them. And with good reason because on their day they can tear any side apart, whether it be Chelsea, Man Utd or Fulham they're playing.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: TRC on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:24:13 PM
I'd take the rapist over Martins like.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: makemeacupoftea on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:24:15 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

In all competitions, 1 down 24 to go.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:24:18 PM
van persie will definitely break the barrier of 20 goals in all competitions if he stays fit throughout the season.

especially if he's the designated penalty kick taker. can't see him missing many if he's going kick them all to the roof.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:24:46 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.


Martins will outscore him in the league this year even with playing in a slightly inferior side I'm sure of it.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: makemeacupoftea on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:26:19 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.


Martins will outscore him in the league this year even with playing in a slightly inferior side I'm sure of it.

 mackems.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:26:22 PM
martins got 17 in the entire season, van persie was at 13 halfway through the season.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: makemeacupoftea on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:28:59 PM
Parky, do you think martins is better than van persie?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:33:02 PM
Parky, do you think martins is better than van persie?

I think he is a better goalscorer yes.

However VP has a far superior all-round game and is an excellent forward. Will go onto become top 10 in the world imo.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:33:58 PM
martins got 17 in the entire season, van persie was at 13 halfway through the season.

How many goals has VP got since HE'S BEEN AT ARSENAL?


We can count the goals they get from open play exc pens in the PL if you like. I think you have slightly better odds but I'm confident.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: maddog2 on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:43:11 PM
35 goals from open play. he also had 8 assists last season ... and martins could only manage 5 assists in the entire season.

no choice between van persie and martins - it's van persie anyday.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: madras on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:47:51 PM
35 goals from open play. he also had 8 assists last season ... and martins could only manage 5 assists in the entire season.

no choice between van persie and martins - it's van persie anyday.
do we grown ups really count assists...a poorly hit mis placed shot can count as an assist
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:52:41 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.

No, he really isn't. He's scored 22 goals in his whole Arsenal career, to say he will get 25 goals this season is pure stupidity.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: makemeacupoftea on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:55:10 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.

No, he really isn't. He's scored 22 goals in his whole Arsenal career, to say he will get 25 goals this season is pure stupidity.

only played 70+ games, and probably most were sub appearances

van persie WILL get over 20-25 this season
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:56:13 PM
VAN PERSIE'S PL GOALSCORING RECORD.

2004–05   26   6      
2005–06   24   5      
2006–07   21   11   

**We realise he wasn't the main striker even so in a dominat side like Arsenal the goal per games isn't great.

Martins has done as well as him in his first season to be fair to Martins.

MARTINS.

2006-07      31  11


**In his first season playing in a very poor side.   


         
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Sunday 12 August 2007, 07:57:21 PM
I reckon arsenal have a big chance of winning the league tbh

You also think Van Persie will get 25 goals...

Van Persie is an amazing player, probably blessed with the best technique in our league, he is capable of 25 goals, and yes I would have Van Persie over Martins, I hope that was a joke, Van Persie has the twice the ability of Martins.

No, he really isn't. He's scored 22 goals in his whole Arsenal career, to say he will get 25 goals this season is pure stupidity.

only played 70+ games, and probably most were sub appearances

van persie WILL get over 20-25 this season

Couldn't care about all competitions, how many do you think he will get in the league?

And you say "get over 20-25", is that you saying he will get more than 25 goals?  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 12 August 2007, 08:02:40 PM
He'll not get 20 never mind 25, no Arsenal player ever will now, unless they change their tactics and way of playing. Van Persie isn't a natural finisher or someone to sniff out goals, he's an outside of the box man, similar to Berbatov who won't get you 20 league goals either. Mind, not many strikers do these days.

FWIW Martins won't either. IMO.





























Although Shola will. ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 12 August 2007, 08:03:20 PM
One thing that people also seem to forget about Arsenal, is that they carry this aura and that alone often beats teams or gives them the upper hand, same with Man Utd and Chelsea and to some extent Liverpool. We used to have it under KK and Sir Bobby, where teams would be shitting themselves at the prospect of facing us or be really negative in their setup, approach and play.

The good news for us, is that under Sam, Bolton also had a "oh no, not them, anyone but them" aura :D

And Arsenal also seemed to struggle at The Reebok.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Knightrider on Sunday 12 August 2007, 08:04:08 PM
One thing that people also seem to forget about Arsenal, is that they carry this aura and that alone often beats teams or gives them the upper hand, same with Man Utd and Chelsea and to some extent Liverpool. We used to have it under KK and Sir Bobby, where teams would be shitting themselves at the prospect of facing us or be really negative in their setup, approach and play.

The good news for us, is that under Sam, Bolton also had a "oh no, not them, anyone but them" aura :D

And Arsenal also seemed to struggle at The Reebok.

Because they hated playing against them, much like we dread playing at Old Trafford, or indeed the Reebok. Before Sam took over of course :D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:37:46 AM
SAF knows the score. O0
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:40:57 AM
He's just laughing at you tbh.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:42:03 AM
He's just laughing at you tbh.

...cause he knows me personally.. :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:42:56 AM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:52:25 AM
He'll not get 20 never mind 25, no Arsenal player ever will now, unless they change their tactics and way of playing. Van Persie isn't a natural finisher or someone to sniff out goals, he's an outside of the box man, similar to Berbatov who won't get you 20 league goals either. Mind, not many strikers do these days.

FWIW Martins won't either. IMO.





























Although Shola will. ;)
I see RVP more as a link player a la Bergkamp than Berbatov who plays a bit further forward and is more of a target man imo.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Northern Monkey on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:55:41 AM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:56:31 AM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.

No I was saying it before the season started so I was technically basing it on 0 games. :laugh:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:57:15 AM
He'll not get 20 never mind 25, no Arsenal player ever will now, unless they change their tactics and way of playing. Van Persie isn't a natural finisher or someone to sniff out goals, he's an outside of the box man, similar to Berbatov who won't get you 20 league goals either. Mind, not many strikers do these days.

FWIW Martins won't either. IMO.





























Although Shola will. ;)
I see RVP more as a link player a la Bergkamp than Berbatov who plays a bit further forward and is more of a target man imo.


Try explaining that to this lot.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Northern Monkey on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 11:58:38 AM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.

No I was saying it before the season started so I was technically basing it on 0 games. :laugh:

So where do you think WE will be at the end of the season, Parky? And Spurs?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 12:00:26 PM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.

No I was saying it before the season started so I was technically basing it on 0 games. :laugh:

So where do you think WE will be at the end of the season, Parky? And Spurs?


I think we will finish anywhere between 4th and 7th and the same goes for Spurs. My point has always been since SA joined that we would close the gap between us and Spurs and Everton etc..


Incidentally I think Liverpool are ahead of Arsenal now by some margin barring injuries to key players ie Gerrard/Alonso they will finish 3rd poss 2nd IMO.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Northern Monkey on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 12:02:41 PM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.

No I was saying it before the season started so I was technically basing it on 0 games. :laugh:

So where do you think WE will be at the end of the season, Parky? And Spurs?


I think we will finish anywhere between 4th and 7th and the same goes for Spurs. My point has always been since SA joined that we would close the gap between us and Spurs and Everton etc..

We were BOUND to close the gap, based ont he fact that any c*** could have done better than Roeder.

We'll not finish 4th, can't even see top 6 myself.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 12:05:56 PM
I think top 6 is a distinct possibility. If we finish above Spurs and Everton we'll have had a very good season though.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 12:07:33 PM
...btw where are the Tottenham are light years ahead of us brigade today?

you are basing that on two games?

jebus.

No I was saying it before the season started so I was technically basing it on 0 games. :laugh:

So where do you think WE will be at the end of the season, Parky? And Spurs?


I think we will finish anywhere between 4th and 7th and the same goes for Spurs. My point has always been since SA joined that we would close the gap between us and Spurs and Everton etc..

We were BOUND to close the gap, based ont he fact that any c*** could have done better than Roeder.

We'll not finish 4th, can't even see top 6 myself.


I take your opinion, but I don't agree with it. I think if Roeder can get us to 7th with half the reserves in the side, with our slowly developing def organisation makes it highly likely we can get 7th or above this time around. Also we have Owen soon for a few games and a proper left back to slot in at some point.
Smith, Barton and Geremi can be added to our developing squad and this will bring more consistancy IMO.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 12:15:41 PM
A cliched thing to say but consistency will be the key this season. Along with being able to pick up a few away wins and not being pushovers away from home in general.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The College Dropout on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 01:15:20 PM
RVP will get atleast 15 Prem goals this year if he stays fit. I think he'll get 20 depending on his fitness and how well Arsenal play.

How many goals had Drogba score before last season (he was looking canny towards the end of the year before). He had 1 season where he looked doo-doo, another where he looked solid and last year he was brilliant. I fancy RVP to make Drogba like strides this year. He's also still pretty young isn't he?

Didn't he score the same ammount of Premiership goals as Martins last season despite being injured for half the season?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: La Parka on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 01:17:10 PM
RVP will get 20 as long as he stays fit!

:)

I think Arse will finish 4th and Everton/Blackburn/Us fighting for UEFA.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The College Dropout on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 01:25:18 PM
It's going to be a battle in the Prem this year. There are many strong sides this year capable of beating each other.

Us
Spurs
Blackburn
Everton

West Ham maybe Arsenal and to a lesser extent Villa/Reading and Portsmouth all have strong sides and I think the centre of the park will separate us all. Spurs look soft through the middle with Ledley out and Jenas and Zokora never bossing a match. Arsenal also look soft without Gilberto. All the other sides (including us) look nails tbh.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 02:16:13 PM
It's going to be a battle in the Prem this year. There are many strong sides this year capable of beating each other.

Us
Spurs
Blackburn
Everton

West Ham maybe Arsenal and to a lesser extent Villa/Reading and Portsmouth all have strong sides and I think the centre of the park will separate us all. Spurs look soft through the middle with Ledley out and Jenas and Zokora never bossing a match. Arsenal also look soft without Gilberto. All the other sides (including us) look nails tbh.


Very important observation. Agree.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: OzzieMandias on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Don't forget Man City.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 07:04:16 PM
Don't forget Man City.

Sven is doing well there. Seemed to have a list of players ready and started buying from day one. He has a plan.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 07:59:10 PM
My theory why Parky doesn't like Van Persie btw is that woman from a couple of years ago whom he was arrested for rape for was definitely some form of relation to the Parky clan.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 08:05:39 PM
Heeeyyyy.... Van Persie... OOOOH AHHHH... I wanna knoooowwww, did ya rape that girl?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 08:06:22 PM
"VAN PER-SIE, WHEN THE GIRL SAYS NO, MOLEST HER."
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Ikon on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 08:37:29 PM
"VAN PER-SIE, WHEN THE GIRL SAYS NO, MOLEST HER."

 :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Atticus on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 10:01:12 PM
"VAN PER-SIE, WHEN THE GIRL SAYS NO, MOLEST HER."

 :lol:

That made me laugh out loud :laugh:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Northern Monkey on Wednesday 15 August 2007, 10:02:52 PM
RVP will get atleast 15 Prem goals this year if he stays fit. I think he'll get 20 depending on his fitness and how well Arsenal play.

How many goals had Drogba score before last season (he was looking canny towards the end of the year before). He had 1 season where he looked doo-doo, another where he looked solid and last year he was brilliant. I fancy RVP to make Drogba like strides this year. He's also still pretty young isn't he?

Didn't he score the same ammount of Premiership goals as Martins last season despite being injured for half the season?

20?? I'd like a bet he doesn't.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:13:30 AM
I'm upgrading this scenario to top 3.

Everything is everything.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:23:15 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:27:31 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The College Dropout on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:27:38 AM
RVP will get atleast 15 Prem goals this year if he stays fit. I think he'll get 20 depending on his fitness and how well Arsenal play.

How many goals had Drogba score before last season (he was looking canny towards the end of the year before). He had 1 season where he looked doo-doo, another where he looked solid and last year he was brilliant. I fancy RVP to make Drogba like strides this year. He's also still pretty young isn't he?

Didn't he score the same ammount of Premiership goals as Martins last season despite being injured for half the season?

20?? I'd like a bet he doesn't.

I'd like a bet he does finish within the top 5 goal scorers this year.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:29:45 AM
RVP will get atleast 15 Prem goals this year if he stays fit. I think he'll get 20 depending on his fitness and how well Arsenal play.

How many goals had Drogba score before last season (he was looking canny towards the end of the year before). He had 1 season where he looked doo-doo, another where he looked solid and last year he was brilliant. I fancy RVP to make Drogba like strides this year. He's also still pretty young isn't he?

Didn't he score the same ammount of Premiership goals as Martins last season despite being injured for half the season?

20?? I'd like a bet he doesn't.

I'd like a bet he does finish within the top 5 goal scorers this year.


Who VanPoncy?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:33:01 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:37:10 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:39:32 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.

I think SJP is going to be rocking at 5.15pm on saturday.

I cant wait tbh.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:41:43 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.

I think SJP is going to be rocking at 5.15pm on saturday.

I cant wait tbh.


Villa will be set assunder like chaf from the wheat harvest.

Smith rules. :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:46:35 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.

I think SJP is going to be rocking at 5.15pm on saturday.

I cant wait tbh.


Villa will be set assunder like chaf from the wheat harvest.

Smith rules. :razz:

Hold tight. It's going to need a big performance.

Did you have a side-bet with brummie on this? I think he may be around on saturday.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:48:49 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.

I think SJP is going to be rocking at 5.15pm on saturday.

I cant wait tbh.


Villa will be set assunder like chaf from the wheat harvest.

Smith rules. :razz:

Hold tight. It's going to need a big performance.

Did you have a side-bet with brummie on this? I think he may be around on saturday.


We have 50 notes on the season. But betting on this one game wouldn't really be fair. :lol:


Poor bugger Ashley started buying the club 2 weeks after the bet. :laugh:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 01:53:37 AM
Parky and his dutch courage.

You love me though. :razz:

I believe positive thinking has a place. If everyone pulls in the same direction, fans and players, then our manager might just do something. I feel it but experience tells me to be more tentative.

We're very lucky to have him though.


This is the moment Chez. YOu know that....When I was rambling in Berlin about our club and destiny. YOu see it as luck but you also know we as a club were ready for what is happenning now. We both have the critical awareness to be critical and that has its place...But BS has picked up on the fact that the fans can be a bit negative...He's right.

I think SJP is going to be rocking at 5.15pm on saturday.

I cant wait tbh.


Villa will be set assunder like chaf from the wheat harvest.

Smith rules. :razz:

Hold tight. It's going to need a big performance.

Did you have a side-bet with brummie on this? I think he may be around on saturday.


We have 50 notes on the season. But betting on this one game wouldn't really be fair. :lol:


Poor bugger Ashley started buying the club 2 weeks after the bet. :laugh:

:lol: Did he? Unlucky brummie. 

My money is on a draw but you never know. The next 4 are much easier.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Friday 17 August 2007, 02:08:01 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/newcastle/article2274356.ece

From The Times August 17, 2007

Allardyce aims to raise standards at St James’ Park

George Caulkin

On the pitch and in the transfer market, Sam Allardyce has already made a substantial impact as Newcastle United manager, but it is at the club’s training ground where change has been felt most keenly. Alongside the recent influx of sports scientists, dieti-cians and psychologists, there has been a more rudimentary innovation; locking out latecomers.

At a club that has endured a recent history of indiscipline, Allardyce has taken forceful steps to root out tardiness among his illustrious first-team squad. Each morning at 9.45, the electronic gates of Newcastle’s Benton training academy swing shut, forcing sleepyheads to endure the embarrassment of leaving their cars and using a buzzer to request entry in front of autograph hunters.

On assuming his position, Allardyce complained that Newcastle’s facilities were more reminiscent of a “squash club”, than a centre of sporting excellence and he has implemented other measures to improve the focus of his team. Agents, relatives and hangers-on no longer have open access to the training site and are obliged to wait for players in a makeshift hut. It all forms part of a bigger picture.

As he did at Bolton Wanderers, Allardyce is implementing a culture of no excuses on Tyneside, one that supporters ? who have had their fill of wasters and underachievers ? will appreciate.

“You have a lot of very, very experienced, very, very talented human beings that have a desire to be successful and that’s why they are as talented as they are,” Allardyce said of his players. “You’ve got to live up to their standards and by the same token you’ve got to set your standards higher than them.”

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: elbee909 on Friday 17 August 2007, 08:50:09 AM
Quote
Allardyce is implementing a culture of no excuses on Tyneside

So strange that Dyer felt the need to hand in a transfer suddenly for family reasons, having not realised he's been away from his family for 7 odd years. :)

Great stuff.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pip on Sunday 19 August 2007, 03:31:09 PM
Parky, you shouldn't have said all those things about Arsenal and Robin Van Persie.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: brummie on Sunday 19 August 2007, 04:17:19 PM
Parky, after the direct comparison afforded by the match yesterday, and having reviewed my 50 pound bet with you (the proceeds of which are going to the server fund, I forgot to tell you about that, I promised it when p*ssed), I am now more confident than ever I shall win.

And dont forget, we - annoyingly and oddly enough - haven't even started our summer acquisitions program yet.

*dancing around, waving hands in air emoticon*
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mowen on Sunday 19 August 2007, 10:58:37 PM
If only the season were to finish now Parky would be spot on!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 20 August 2007, 09:48:32 AM
Parky, after the direct comparison afforded by the match yesterday, and having reviewed my 50 pound bet with you (the proceeds of which are going to the server fund, I forgot to tell you about that, I promised it when p*ssed), I am now more confident than ever I shall win.

And dont forget, we - annoyingly and oddly enough - haven't even started our summer acquisitions program yet.

*dancing around, waving hands in air emoticon*


*Twiddles thumbs relaxed in the knowledge of the arrival of Deco* :razz:


YOu only promising £50 to the server fund? bluerazz.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 20 August 2007, 09:49:17 AM
Parky, you shouldn't have said all those things about Arsenal and Robin Van Persie.

I've watched all their games. I haven't seen nowt to change my mind.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr Logic on Monday 20 August 2007, 11:00:46 AM
...and Wenger basically confirmed to every other team in the Premiership in todays newspapers just how to beat them, bitterly condemning Blackburns 'violent' approach.

Apparently they don't like it up 'em.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 20 August 2007, 11:14:47 AM
Are you suggesting that wasn't already known?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 20 August 2007, 11:16:18 AM
...and Wenger basically told every other team in the Premiership in todays newspapers just how to beat them, bitterly condemning Blackburns 'violent' approach.

Apparently they don't like it up 'em.

More to the point is they don't have a midfield 'daddy' to fight for thier right to 'play'. Viera has never been replaced imo.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr Logic on Monday 20 August 2007, 11:18:17 AM
Are you suggesting that wasn't already known?

FMP
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Monday 20 August 2007, 11:21:09 AM
:razz:

Bolton in particular have been getting results against them in recent years using those tactics.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pip on Monday 20 August 2007, 12:16:19 PM
Parky, you shouldn't have said all those things about Arsenal and Robin Van Persie.

I've watched all their games. I haven't seen nowt to change my mind.

So you've seen something then?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Monday 20 August 2007, 12:28:34 PM
But for some might strange referring Blackburn would have had them tbh.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 1 September 2007, 10:16:54 AM
Now the dust has settled on this transfer window, I am even more confident that we can push for 4/5....Hard to beat sons of bitches is the phrase that is entering my head. bluerazz.gif

Spurs are in turmoil. :parky:
Everton haven't really had a good window.
Aston Villa the same.

Man City for me is the team most improved after the summer window along with Pompey.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr Spectrum on Saturday 1 September 2007, 10:27:38 AM
Now the dust has settled on this transfer window, I am even more confident that we can push for 4/5....Hard to beat sons of bitches is the phrase that is entering my head. bluerazz.gif

Spurs are in turmoil. :parky:
Everton haven't really had a good window.
Aston Villa the same.

Man City for me is the team most improved after the summer window along with Pompey.

Think you'll finish above City Parky...?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Keefaz on Saturday 1 September 2007, 10:37:02 AM
Pompey give me the fear. Unless they implode I can see them doing really well.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 1 September 2007, 10:58:56 AM
Now the dust has settled on this transfer window, I am even more confident that we can push for 4/5....Hard to beat sons of bitches is the phrase that is entering my head. bluerazz.gif

Spurs are in turmoil. :parky:
Everton haven't really had a good window.
Aston Villa the same.

Man City for me is the team most improved after the summer window along with Pompey.

Think you'll finish above City Parky...?


If I was honest I'd admit that I'd rather have had Sven than SA and there are a number of obvious reasons for this, the main being that he clearly has a greater understanding of the game Europe wide. He took a lot of criticism as England manager but which man in that role hasn't. Sven's club management cv is very good imo and at that level he is a proven winner. In Italy particularly he understood the balance and the tempo of the game very quickly and his players especially at Lazio always spoke highly of him. He has it over SA tactically, technically and is a far more skilled observer of what is happenning on the pitch. SA on the other hand is a slightly better organiser and imo is better at motivating the players and can be inspirational on the day....But you know good professionals shouldn't need motivating. So yes you have the better manager overall.

Both our def are now on an equal footing and we both have the ability to hang on in there in games under pressure. Corluka and Garrido seemingly plucked out of a hat have settled into PL football like ducks to water. The genius of Sven this window was getting Bojinov, Elano and Bianchi. The first might have copped and inj early on, but he has been one of those players it has been whispered for a while now that would end up at one of the big Italian or Spanish outfits, technically gifted with pace. Elano has been my fav buy of any PL club this summer, I needen't say anything cause you've already seen the trickery of his contributions. Bianchi hasn't been much talked about but his goal ratio in Serie A stands uptp scrutiny as Sven very well knows. SGE has many very solid contacts around Europe inc the agent that helped him broker some of these deals. For a moment it looked like you had a goalkeeping issue but KS has delivered some excellent moments already. I am a strong believer in momentum and that a seasons progress and key notes are often sounded in the first half a dozen weeks. You look good to go.

It will be close between us where we finish. But you have the edge at the moment and deservedly so, Sven has shown vision and should be rewarded. Us on the other hand look a little clunky and will miss out on points when they are for the taking. But we are both in transition. It will be interesting.

Right now.......You are the better side.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: olliemort on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:03:07 AM
Now the dust has settled on this transfer window, I am even more confident that we can push for 4/5....Hard to beat sons of bitches is the phrase that is entering my head. bluerazz.gif

Spurs are in turmoil. :parky:
Everton haven't really had a good window.
Aston Villa the same.

Man City for me is the team most improved after the summer window along with Pompey.

Think you'll finish above City Parky...?


If I was honest I'd admit that I'd rather have had Sven than SA and there are a number of obvious reasons for this, the main being that he clearly has a greater understanding of the game Europe wide. He took a lot of criticism as England manager but which man in that role hasn't. Sven's club management cv is very good imo and at that level he is a proven winner. In Italy particularly he understood the balance and the tempo of the game very quickly and his players especially at Lazio always spoke highly of him. He has it over SA tactically, technically and is a far more skilled observer of what is happenning on the pitch. SA on the other hand is a slightly better organiser and imo is better at motivating the players and can be inspirational on the day....But you know good professionals shouldn't need motivating. So yes you have the better manager overall.

Both our def are now on an equal footing and we both have the ability to hang on in there in games under pressure. Corluka and Garrido seemingly plucked out of a hat have settled into PL football like ducks to water. The genius of Sven this window was getting Bojinov, Elano and Bianchi. The first might have copped and inj early on, but he has been one of those players it has been whispered for a while now that would end up at one of the big Italian or Spanish outfits, technically gifted with pace. Elano has been my fav buy of any PL club this summer, I needen't say anything cause you've already seen the trickery of his contributions. Bianchi hasn't been much talked about but his goal ratio in Serie A stands uptp scrutiny as Sven very well knows. SGE has many very solid contacts around Europe inc the agent that helped him broker some of these deals. For a moment it looked like you had a goalkeeping issue but KS has delivered some excellent moments already. I am a strong believer in momentum and that a seasons progress and key notes are often sounded in the first half a dozen weeks. You look good to go.

It will be close between us where we finish. But you have the edge at the moment and deservedly so, Sven has shown vision and should be rewarded. Us on the other hand look a little clunky and will miss out on points when they are for the taking. But we are both in transition. It will be interesting.

Right now.......You are the better side.
Oh get off  it man!If we picked Sven as our manager,everyone would have lost the plot!I was talking to a Man City fan and he was well p*ssed off that they got Sven,of course hes changed his mind already! :razz:Sam was the only option,we need some stability and hes proven already both by his results and signings that he can provide that!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:05:37 AM
Now the dust has settled on this transfer window, I am even more confident that we can push for 4/5....Hard to beat sons of bitches is the phrase that is entering my head. bluerazz.gif

Spurs are in turmoil. :parky:
Everton haven't really had a good window.
Aston Villa the same.

Man City for me is the team most improved after the summer window along with Pompey.

Think you'll finish above City Parky...?


If I was honest I'd admit that I'd rather have had Sven than SA and there are a number of obvious reasons for this, the main being that he clearly has a greater understanding of the game Europe wide. He took a lot of criticism as England manager but which man in that role hasn't. Sven's club management cv is very good imo and at that level he is a proven winner. In Italy particularly he understood the balance and the tempo of the game very quickly and his players especially at Lazio always spoke highly of him. He has it over SA tactically, technically and is a far more skilled observer of what is happenning on the pitch. SA on the other hand is a slightly better organiser and imo is better at motivating the players and can be inspirational on the day....But you know good professionals shouldn't need motivating. So yes you have the better manager overall.

Both our def are now on an equal footing and we both have the ability to hang on in there in games under pressure. Corluka and Garrido seemingly plucked out of a hat have settled into PL football like ducks to water. The genius of Sven this window was getting Bojinov, Elano and Bianchi. The first might have copped and inj early on, but he has been one of those players it has been whispered for a while now that would end up at one of the big Italian or Spanish outfits, technically gifted with pace. Elano has been my fav buy of any PL club this summer, I needen't say anything cause you've already seen the trickery of his contributions. Bianchi hasn't been much talked about but his goal ratio in Serie A stands uptp scrutiny as Sven very well knows. SGE has many very solid contacts around Europe inc the agent that helped him broker some of these deals. For a moment it looked like you had a goalkeeping issue but KS has delivered some excellent moments already. I am a strong believer in momentum and that a seasons progress and key notes are often sounded in the first half a dozen weeks. You look good to go.

It will be close between us where we finish. But you have the edge at the moment and deservedly so, Sven has shown vision and should be rewarded. Us on the other hand look a little clunky and will miss out on points when they are for the taking. But we are both in transition. It will be interesting.

Right now.......You are the better side.
Oh get off  it man!If we picked Sven as our manager,everyone would have lost the plot!I was talking to a Man City fan and he was well p*ssed off that they got Sven,of course hes changed his mind already! :razz:Sam was the only option,we need some stability and hes proven already both by his results and signings that he can provide that!

A few more bore draws down the road will have the same result fella. bluerazz.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr Spectrum on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:13:50 AM
Interesting...I agree with you Parky. Altho I do think we outclass you for personel defensively we wont have the same structure, I think we're going to be a bit of a soft touch at times in midfield whereas you look much tougher...however I think we're a lot more dangerous, I think we're going to get a lot of counterattacking away wins with our setup altho I think the 1 up front system might let us down at home and we'll have to change it like we did against Bristol City so we'll have to see how that goes. I do think we're a probably a better side right now, got more wins in our locker at least...but we're definetly sexier. Which is all I'm bothered about really. :smitten:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:16:42 AM
Interesting...I agree with you Parky. Altho I do think we outclass you for personel defensively we wont have the same structure, I think we're going to be a bit of a soft touch at times in midfield whereas you look much tougher...however I think we're a lot more dangerous, I think we're going to get a lot of counterattacking away wins with our setup altho I think the 1 up front system might let us down at home and we'll have to change it like we did against Bristol City so we'll have to see how that goes. I do think we're a probably a better side right now, got more wins in our locker at least...but we're definetly sexier. Which is all I'm bothered about really. :smitten:

I'm a bit jealous tbh. :angel:

I can already see you'll be playing a more european style with side dishes of delicate cheeses and wines from the Italian hills and the ocassional sound of samba on the breeze......And we've hired the bloke who had a chip shop. mackems.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Karjala on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:18:08 AM
Everton have an excellent chance of getting 4th spot this season
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ohmelads on Saturday 1 September 2007, 11:44:16 AM
Everton have an excellent chance of getting 4th spot this season

I don't think they have the squad, let alone the first team to pick up more points than Arsenal.

Their first team looks solid and organised, and Yakubu will give them another dimension up front, but can they cope with injuries and still keep winning games? Looking at their squad I'm not sure they have the depth.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: OzzieMandias on Saturday 1 September 2007, 12:14:33 PM
Lack of depth will hopefully prove to a problem for Man City, too.

Otherwise, I see them as our main opposition outside the "big four plus Tottenham". Sven is severely underestimated in this country – bizarre, given what is actually a pretty good record with England and an excellent club CV. I was against him coming here when Allardyce was appointed because I couldn't imagine Shepherd and Sven working well together, assuming they'd even agree to try, and because it's clear Sven is the kind of manager who needs a bit of money. Under Shepherd we no longer had any cash, and one of the areas IMO Allardyce has it over Sven is in maximising limited resources.

But, Sven plus Thaksin's dodgily acquired billions...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 1 September 2007, 12:26:12 PM
Lack of depth will hopefully prove to a problem for Man City, too.

Otherwise, I see them as our main opposition outside the "big four plus Tottenham". Sven is severely underestimated in this country ? bizarre, given what is actually a pretty good record with England and an excellent club CV. I was against him coming here when Allardyce was appointed because I couldn't imagine Shepherd and Sven working well together, assuming they'd even agree to try, and because it's clear Sven is the kind of manager who needs a bit of money. Under Shepherd we no longer had any cash, and one of the areas IMO Allardyce has it over Sven is in maximising limited resources.

But, Sven plus Thaksin's dodgily acquired billions...

Sven with Ashley's billions?  :angel:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: OzzieMandias on Saturday 1 September 2007, 12:31:53 PM
Lack of depth will hopefully prove to a problem for Man City, too.

Otherwise, I see them as our main opposition outside the "big four plus Tottenham". Sven is severely underestimated in this country ? bizarre, given what is actually a pretty good record with England and an excellent club CV. I was against him coming here when Allardyce was appointed because I couldn't imagine Shepherd and Sven working well together, assuming they'd even agree to try, and because it's clear Sven is the kind of manager who needs a bit of money. Under Shepherd we no longer had any cash, and one of the areas IMO Allardyce has it over Sven is in maximising limited resources.

But, Sven plus Thaksin's dodgily acquired billions...

Sven with Ashley's billions?  :angel:

Well, precisely.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: K9 on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 09:40:21 PM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 09:52:41 PM
It was nonsense even before Arsenal started the season on fire. :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: brummie on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 09:56:24 PM
Everton have an excellent chance of getting 4th spot this season

 :rolleyes:

Another example of why it is impossible to tell yet how the season is going to pan out.

Except for the fact that Arsenal will do very, very well.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: K9 on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 09:56:30 PM
It was nonsense even before Arsenal started the season on fire. :razz:

Exactly
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mr. Snrub on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 10:00:45 PM
No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.

Good to know I was one of the sane ones. :razz:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 10:10:55 PM
No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.

Good to know I was one of the sane ones. :razz:

Yeah with a billionaire owner and a well respected manager challenging for 4th is insanity. :cheesy:



There is still a very good chance one of the top 4 will be pushed to the wire by Villa or Everton etc...It just might not be Arsenal.

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Decky on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 10:22:31 PM
I wouldnt be suprised if Arsenal won the league this year, Man Utd are stuggling scoring goals, Liverpool have a manager who will rest the likes of Torres and end up drawing loads of games, Chelsea are about good few points behind Arsenal already. Arsenal are already like 4 points on top iirc, i think they will struggling against the other big 3 but are definately capable of winning those games, as for the rest by rights they should have very few problems playing the other 16 teams in the league. It will be interesting.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 10:28:43 PM
What were the odds on Arsenal winning the league this year? They must have been fourth favourites. Not saying they will btw, just on a good roll at the minute.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Tuesday 25 September 2007, 10:37:40 PM
No chance of us finishing above Arsenal next season.

Good to know I was one of the sane ones. :razz:

Yeah with a billionaire owner and a well respected manager challenging for 4th is insanity. :cheesy:


After a s*** start to the season, arent we almost challenging anyway?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tsunami on Wednesday 26 September 2007, 11:59:15 AM
Time to lock thread.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: sombrero on Wednesday 26 September 2007, 01:09:33 PM
i agree with alot of comments here but in my opinion what is important is that so far, our home form, is MILES better than las t year, what was it, since february we hadn't scored a goal at home till this season?, now we won 2 and drew one at home?, and only lost one on the road so far?, i think we are  doing pretty well, and ill always be happy seeing chelski below us no matter what and only a matter of a few days before man u join chelski behind us.

heres a thought, if everyone was fully fit, and martins stops missing those chances, then you never know. if we do well at home throughout the season i really dont see why we cant get 4rth, and arsenal will ride out their luck soon garanteed, without the likes of henry, this cannot continue.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Fugazi on Wednesday 26 September 2007, 01:41:53 PM
i agree with alot of comments here but in my opinion what is important is that so far, our home form, is MILES better than las t year, what was it, since february we hadn't scored a goal at home till this season?, now we won 2 and drew one at home?, and only lost one on the road so far?, i think we are  doing pretty well, and ill always be happy seeing chelski below us no matter what and only a matter of a few days before man u join chelski behind us.

heres a thought, if everyone was fully fit, and martins stops missing those chances, then you never know. if we do well at home throughout the season i really dont see why we cant get 4rth, and arsenal will ride out their luck soon garanteed, without the likes of henry, this cannot continue.

It blatantly can continue.

Arsenal's good start has had nothing to do with luck, now that Henry's gone they don't have any massive superstar egos, and are playing with more freedom.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: johnnyappleseed on Wednesday 26 September 2007, 03:47:14 PM
the only luck involving arsenal was bad luck last season ... dominating teams and drawing or even losing. all you had to do was look at arsenal's form against good teams last season (even when henry was injured) and see that they had the talent to do what they are currently doing. all the other clubs that were suppose to leapfrog aren't capable of results like that.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Thursday 25 October 2007, 10:24:55 AM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Thursday 25 October 2007, 10:26:16 AM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)

I couldn't remember the title of it as I was thinking of doing the same. Hence my RVP comment in the Benny Benitez thread.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Thursday 25 October 2007, 10:28:03 AM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)

I couldn't remember the title of it as I was thinking of doing the same. Hence my RVP comment in the Benny Benitez thread.
Yeah, you inspired my decision :D
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Thursday 25 October 2007, 10:28:38 AM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)

I couldn't remember the title of it as I was thinking of doing the same. Hence my RVP comment in the Benny Benitez thread.
Yeah, you inspired my decision :D

An inspiration to all.

*Dons hat and walks outta here.*
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Howaythelads on Thursday 25 October 2007, 11:43:45 AM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)

Seen?

 :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Thursday 25 October 2007, 11:50:25 AM
"Seeing". Sorry ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Thursday 25 October 2007, 01:23:02 PM
Seen as Parky's bumped his Benitez thread I thought I'd do the same for this one ;)

I couldn't remember the title of it as I was thinking of doing the same. Hence my RVP comment in the Benny Benitez thread.
Yeah, you inspired my decision :D

An inspiration to all.

*Dons hat and walks outta here.*

I'm a bit tied up with Jol and Benny atm. I will get to the gunners later....When it matters and especially Mr Van Poncey.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Fugazi on Thursday 25 October 2007, 03:22:24 PM
RVP will get atleast 15 Prem goals this year if he stays fit. I think he'll get 20 depending on his fitness and how well Arsenal play.

How many goals had Drogba score before last season (he was looking canny towards the end of the year before). He had 1 season where he looked doo-doo, another where he looked solid and last year he was brilliant. I fancy RVP to make Drogba like strides this year. He's also still pretty young isn't he?

Didn't he score the same ammount of Premiership goals as Martins last season despite being injured for half the season?

20?? I'd like a bet he doesn't.

5 in 7 games so far.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The College Dropout on Thursday 25 October 2007, 03:36:40 PM
i thought RVP would do great but I must say i'm suprised with how well Adebayour has started.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: microbar on Thursday 25 October 2007, 03:57:16 PM
We dont have a chance in hell of finishing above arsenal,
 either next season or in the next ten seasons,

Did you watch them the other night 7-0

We are not worthy

end off rant.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Melbourne Toon on Thursday 25 October 2007, 04:01:11 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Luc on Thursday 25 October 2007, 04:04:41 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Thursday 25 October 2007, 04:07:41 PM
We dont have a chance in hell of finishing above arsenal,
 either next season or in the next ten seasons,

Did you watch them the other night 7-0

We are not worthy

end off rant.


Next ten seasons?!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Martin Lol on Thursday 25 October 2007, 04:56:10 PM
We dont have a chance in hell of finishing above arsenal,
 either next season or in the next ten seasons,

Did you watch them the other night 7-0

We are not worthy

end off rant.


Next ten seasons?!

For as many seasons it is before Wenger clears off, hopefully very soon to replace Steve McLaren.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Thursday 25 October 2007, 04:58:35 PM
We dont have a chance in hell of finishing above arsenal,
 either next season or in the next ten seasons,

Did you watch them the other night 7-0

We are not worthy

end off rant.


Next ten seasons?!

For as many seasons it is before Wenger clears off, hopefully very soon to replace Steve McLaren.


Madrid could have done us all a favour and taken Cesc. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: The College Dropout on Thursday 25 October 2007, 05:30:35 PM
We dont have a chance in hell of finishing above arsenal,
 either next season or in the next ten seasons,

Did you watch them the other night 7-0

We are not worthy

end off rant.


Next ten seasons?!

For as many seasons it is before Wenger clears off, hopefully very soon to replace Steve McLaren.


Madrid could have done us all a favour and taken Cesc. :rolleyes:

Aye the lads what 21? Maybe younger and actually getting better and better.... scary

I enjoy having his type of player in the Premiership. I hoped Henry wouldn't leave
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: johnnyappleseed on Thursday 25 October 2007, 05:31:56 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Luc on Thursday 25 October 2007, 06:15:09 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Fabregas plays for Barca or Madrid next year.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Thursday 25 October 2007, 06:15:10 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Henry wanted out though iirc.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ChezGiven on Thursday 25 October 2007, 06:28:54 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Henry wanted out though iirc.
Still, on his way down if tuesday's performance was anything to go by.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: johnnyappleseed on Thursday 25 October 2007, 11:09:00 PM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Henry wanted out though iirc.
henry is 30 years old and clearly past his best. he will never be as good as he was for arsenal. and that's all wenger wants: the very best years from his players. when the various advanced stats he combs over show that they are falling off he is ruthless (their own outfield players in their 30's don't get contracts longer than a year).

and Luc,

until it happens, i'll go on the evidence of bergkamp, henry, vieira, pires, campbell, cole etc that arsenal/arsene don't sell (or allow their contracts to run out) big players unless the team will be better off without them. that's more concrete than some spanish papers trying to sell papers about their clubs buying every top player around. according to the papers vieira should have been playing for real madrid since 2002,  but he only left when wenger gave him no option but to leave (wenger was ok with him leaving in 2004, but vieira didn't want to leave).
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 09:44:20 AM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Henry wanted out though iirc.
henry is 30 years old and clearly past his best. he will never be as good as he was for arsenal. and that's all wenger wants: the very best years from his players. when the various advanced stats he combs over show that they are falling off he is ruthless (their own outfield players in their 30's don't get contracts longer than a year).

and Luc,

until it happens, i'll go on the evidence of bergkamp, henry, vieira, pires, campbell, cole etc that arsenal/arsene don't sell (or allow their contracts to run out) big players unless the team will be better off without them. that's more concrete than some spanish papers trying to sell papers about their clubs buying every top player around. according to the papers vieira should have been playing for real madrid since 2002,  but he only left when wenger gave him no option but to leave (wenger was ok with him leaving in 2004, but vieira didn't want to leave).

True but two summers in a row Henry was close to leaving.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: alex on Friday 26 October 2007, 09:51:49 AM
I think the better question is, will anyone be able to finish above arsenal when all their young players hit their peak?

Yes, when they do they play for Milan and Madrid.
well Arsenal don't sell players at their peak, more like on their way down ... so rules that out.

Henry wanted out though iirc.
Still, on his way down if tuesday's performance was anything to go by.
He was pretty anonymous against Villa Real at the weekend too.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ohmelads on Friday 26 October 2007, 01:21:08 PM
He's probably suffering from the same thing as Shevchenko. Changing leagues at 30 is not easy for a striker. Henry has an advantage over Sheva though in that Barca play his style of football and he's in the side every week.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 02:55:07 PM
He's probably suffering from the same thing as Shevchenko. Changing leagues at 30 is not easy for a striker. Henry has an advantage over Sheva though in that Barca play his style of football and he's in the side every week.

Imo Henry should have switched a couple of seasons ago. Gerrard is another who will develop new strings to his bow if he plays abroad.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ohmelads on Friday 26 October 2007, 03:06:46 PM
He's probably suffering from the same thing as Shevchenko. Changing leagues at 30 is not easy for a striker. Henry has an advantage over Sheva though in that Barca play his style of football and he's in the side every week.

Imo Henry should have switched a couple of seasons ago. Gerrard is another who will develop new strings to his bow if he plays abroad.

I agree about Henry. Not sure about Gerrard, you might be right but I always thought his game thrives on the end to end nature of the English football. He likes to be the all action player and this league suits that type of player. Patient build up, intricate one-twos and operating in tighter spaces might make him a weaker force, he's at his best when he can build up a head of steam.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 03:09:25 PM
He's probably suffering from the same thing as Shevchenko. Changing leagues at 30 is not easy for a striker. Henry has an advantage over Sheva though in that Barca play his style of football and he's in the side every week.

Imo Henry should have switched a couple of seasons ago. Gerrard is another who will develop new strings to his bow if he plays abroad.

I agree about Henry. Not sure about Gerrard, you might be right but I always thought his game thrives on the end to end nature of the English football. He likes to be the all action player and this league suits that type of player. Patient build up, intricate one-twos and operating in tighter spaces might make him a weaker force, he's at his best when he can build up a head of steam.


Agree with that, but my premise is that he will learn to operate and think more in 'tighter spaces'. Also there is a rhythm to Euro football which encourges postional sense, something we sorely lack over here...A lot of players running around without really knowing why...
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: macbeth on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:18:01 PM
i agree with alot of comments here but in my opinion what is important is that so far, our home form, is MILES better than las t year,

Last year
Villa 3-1
Wigan 2-1
West Ham 2-2
Everton 1-1
Spurs 3-1
Total 3 wins, 2 draws, 11 points,  11-6 on aggregate


This eyar
Villa 0-0
Wigan 1-0
West Ham 3-1
Everton 3-2
Spurs 3-1

Total 4 wins, one draw, 13 points, 10- 4 on aggregate

Not MILES better, an improvement, but not that different.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Kev on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:23:42 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:36:38 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:38:28 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

Aye, it'll be more like 20+.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:48:29 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

Aye, it'll be more like 20+.


Well we're up with Chelsea. I suppose that is 'just ridiculous' as well. :lol:

The beauty of football (look at the Spurs saga) is that you never know what is going to happen and thankfully it isn't played on paper.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:54:02 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

Aye, it'll be more like 20+.


Well we're up with Chelsea. I suppose that is 'just ridiculous' as well. :lol:

The beauty of football (look at the Spurs saga) is that you never know what is going to happen and thankfully it isn't played on paper.

You think the Spurs and Chelsea crises will repeat at Arsenal?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Kev on Friday 26 October 2007, 05:57:31 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

i said at least 15points  :razz: i dont think they can go on winning like this all season, all it takes is adebayor, fabregas, toure to get injured and they arnt going to be happy, van persie already is a injury freak and hes a miss
so no i did not make that up i dont think we will be more than 25points away from them
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 06:03:49 PM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

Aye, it'll be more like 20+.


Well we're up with Chelsea. I suppose that is 'just ridiculous' as well. :lol:

The beauty of football (look at the Spurs saga) is that you never know what is going to happen and thankfully it isn't played on paper.

You think the Spurs and Chelsea crises will repeat at Arsenal?

I doubt it. But they will go through a bad patch at some point probably after CL games start catching up with them or a couple of inj.

I could just have easily titled the thread and replaced Arsenal with Spurs and it would have encountered a similar (not as much) amout of cynicism (rightly) because it seemed and many had us believe we were miles behing Spurs. I was never that convinced. The Chelsea crisis isn't over either imo as some players will try and jump ship if they can. Of course Wenger signed a new contract and it looks like Adebayor has started scoring it might have been different. They still have weaknesses but yes they have a better manager than Benitez... :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dave on Friday 26 October 2007, 06:05:33 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Friday 26 October 2007, 06:21:14 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

But......I honestly don't believe Man Utd and Arsenal aside the 'big 4' are that far ahead of us and Man C are already making a run at it. If they buy well at Christmas one of the big 4 might well miss out. One thing is for sure in football they won't be able to stay there permanently and especially now our setup is beginning to find new gears and a very special type of owner. :thup:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Shak on Friday 26 October 2007, 06:37:39 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

But......I honestly don't believe Man Utd and Arsenal aside the 'big 4' are that far ahead of us and Man C are already making a run at it. If they buy well at Christmas one of the big 4 might well miss out. One thing is for sure in football they won't be able to stay there permanently and especially now our setup is beginning to find new gears and a very special type of owner. :thup:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Friday 26 October 2007, 07:25:49 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Pie on Friday 26 October 2007, 08:16:15 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Friday 26 October 2007, 08:43:40 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???

Cracks starting to show or just a sneaky dig? :razz:

Nah I understand his pluses and negatives and have said myself I wouldn't be against us signing someone with pace (like SWP) as long as it wasn't the only attribute they possessed. Still think he could get that England call one day (not in the near future though), he is versatile and players a lot worse have been called up before.

As you often say (well slightly amended) he is (at least for now) a good squad player. Never really going to get any faster but will do a decent job and on occasion but in a very good performance.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Friday 26 October 2007, 08:51:28 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???

Cracks starting to show or just a sneaky dig? :razz:

Nah I understand his pluses and negatives and have said myself I wouldn't be against us signing someone with pace (like SWP) as long as it wasn't the only attribute they possessed. Still think he could get that England call one day (not in the near future though), he is versatile and players a lot worse have been called up before.

As you often say (well slightly amended) he is (at least for now) a good squad player. Never really going to get any faster but will do a decent job and on occasion but in a very good performance.


Backtracking!  :frantic:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Friday 26 October 2007, 09:00:23 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???

Cracks starting to show or just a sneaky dig? :razz:

Nah I understand his pluses and negatives and have said myself I wouldn't be against us signing someone with pace (like SWP) as long as it wasn't the only attribute they possessed. Still think he could get that England call one day (not in the near future though), he is versatile and players a lot worse have been called up before.

As you often say (well slightly amended) he is (at least for now) a good squad player. Never really going to get any faster but will do a decent job and on occasion but in a very good performance.


Backtracking!  :frantic:

Show me where I have said anything different?

My comments regarding Milner have always been defending him against people have imo have gone too far in slating him (ie can't cross, can't beat his man, slower than my nan etc etc..). I have never said we couldn't do better but I have said we currently don't have anyone better in the side.

Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Friday 26 October 2007, 09:01:58 PM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???

Cracks starting to show or just a sneaky dig? :razz:

Nah I understand his pluses and negatives and have said myself I wouldn't be against us signing someone with pace (like SWP) as long as it wasn't the only attribute they possessed. Still think he could get that England call one day (not in the near future though), he is versatile and players a lot worse have been called up before.

As you often say (well slightly amended) he is (at least for now) a good squad player. Never really going to get any faster but will do a decent job and on occasion but in a very good performance.


Backtracking!  :frantic:

Show me where I have said anything different?

My comments regarding Milner have always been defending him against people have imo have gone too far in slating him (ie can't cross, can't beat his man, slower than my nan etc etc..). I have never said we couldn't do better but I have said we currently don't have anyone better in the side.



I was taking the p*ss man, obviously a sensitive subject. ;)
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Friday 26 October 2007, 09:03:41 PM
f*** you bitch!


I am a bit hungry, so f***ing what!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 27 October 2007, 11:10:04 AM
I didn't think we had a chance of finishing above them when you started this thread and I've seen absolutely nothing so far to suggest otherwise. In fact I think they're on a major roll right now and are a good shout for the title.

Spurs were never close to Arsenal at the start of the season. In fact this thread might have generated just as much debate but been far more realistic had you named them instead.

Also, they have a frightening number of seemingly quality youngsters (who beat our lot comfortably in the League Cup) to step in for injuries.

I don't think we had a chance of finishing above them either but it isn't why I started the thread. :razz:

I start threads like this sometimes (not always) cause in life I like to encourage people to look up and have hopes that challenge the best rather than 'are we better than Everton' type threads which can be argued easily both ways. My stance on this thread was almost impossible to argue but that's half the fun of it. :razz:

That is a fantastic excuse  :laugh:

Anyway the whole Amady Faye thing, really I never thought he would do well with us but if I just went along with everyone else there wouldn't have been much to debate... :whistle:
I might be singing the same tune and owing you a pint if James Milner wins an England cap  :lol: ???

Cracks starting to show or just a sneaky dig? :razz:

Nah I understand his pluses and negatives and have said myself I wouldn't be against us signing someone with pace (like SWP) as long as it wasn't the only attribute they possessed. Still think he could get that England call one day (not in the near future though), he is versatile and players a lot worse have been called up before.

As you often say (well slightly amended) he is (at least for now) a good squad player. Never really going to get any faster but will do a decent job and on occasion but in a very good performance.



Milner can only improve so I reckon you're on relatively secure ground. There are many wingers with average pace and people like Beckham made up for it with his crossing ability...This is something Milner can work on as it is something that can be coached. He unlike Beckham is two footed which is another plus. There might be a bit more pace in Milner and I'd be looking to get him a sprint and conditioning coach.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Keefaz on Saturday 27 October 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Personally, I'll back Milner through thick and thin. As a kid, he was one of a very small number of players who played his heart out for the club when it really mattered. Not the most talented player in the land, but you can't buy the fighting spirit and willingness he has in spades.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Parky on Saturday 27 October 2007, 11:23:13 AM
Personally, I'll back Milner through thick and thin. As a kid, he was one of a very small number of players who played his heart out for the club when it really mattered. Not the most talented player in the land, but you can't buy the fighting spirit and willingness he has in spades.

Agreed. blueyes.gif
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Cajun on Saturday 27 October 2007, 11:44:50 AM
Personally, I'll back Milner through thick and thin. As a kid, he was one of a very small number of players who played his heart out for the club when it really mattered. Not the most talented player in the land, but you can't buy the fighting spirit and willingness he has in spades.

Also handed the way we treated him very well, can imagine a few others who are worshipped on here (past and present) who would have spat the dummy out.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Tooj on Sunday 13 July 2008, 09:32:50 AM
What about this season?
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Robster on Sunday 13 July 2008, 09:35:15 AM
What about this season?
:lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on Sunday 13 July 2008, 09:59:05 AM
a glance at the table and we will find out that we will be at least 15points behind arsenal at the end of the season

Did you just make that up?

i said at least 15points  :razz: i dont think they can go on winning like this all season, all it takes is adebayor, fabregas, toure to get injured and they arnt going to be happy, van persie already is a injury freak and hes a miss
so no i did not make that up i dont think we will be more than 25points away from them

Try 40 :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Mick on Sunday 13 July 2008, 10:53:13 AM
What about this season?

Somebody was always going to bump this.  :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Harry-Norway on Sunday 13 July 2008, 12:44:09 PM
 :clap:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Yorkie on Sunday 13 July 2008, 12:45:48 PM
It's fairly easy for Dave to put your post count right back down again like. :lol:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: midds on Sunday 13 July 2008, 12:47:32 PM
It's fairly easy for Dave to put your post count right back down again like. :lol:

 :coolsmiley:

Straight back to 0.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Yorkie on Sunday 13 July 2008, 12:49:56 PM
:lol: Owned.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: Decky on Tuesday 26 August 2008, 03:43:49 PM
What about this season? :aww:

Edit: far to slow!
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: ElDiablo on Tuesday 26 August 2008, 03:54:38 PM
Gold section this s*** already. :aww:
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: afar on Tuesday 26 August 2008, 04:21:34 PM
I remember this ridiculous thread.
Title: Re: Why we have a pretty good chance of finishing above Arsenal next season.
Post by: oldtype on Tuesday 26 August 2008, 04:38:52 PM
If we don't lock this thread, it'll probably get bumped several times every year untill we actually do finish above them. And a little bit of me will die every time.

That said, hey, it could happen  :rolleyes: