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NUFC => Football => Topic started by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 10:50:36 am

Title: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 10:50:36 am
I think it’s about time VAR has it’s own thread, to discuss the pros and cons of a system that looks like it’s going to be implemented whether we like it or not.

Quote
It was described as "comical" by former Tottenham midfielder Jermaine Jenas, while Spurs boss Mauricio Pochettino said he felt "sorry for the referee".

It's fair to say the video assistant referee (VAR) made quite an impact on Wednesday.

Controversy dominated the first half of Tottenham's 6-1 win over Rochdale in their FA Cup fifth-round replay, with a goal disallowed and a converted penalty overturned

I’ve also just seen the Juventus v Atalanta game from yesterday. In the first leg, a handball was given via VAR for what looks like a very innocuous ‘ball to hand’ - last night, in the second leg the exact same thing happened and it wasn’t even reviewed :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: neesy111 on Thursday 1 March 2018, 10:55:24 am
It's a joke, either scrap it completely or just go 1 challenge a game system where only the on-field captain can challenge.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:02:11 am
I hate it but I don't see it going anywhere.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Northerngimp on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:03:10 am
1 challenge per half until it speeds up, don't get rid of it as it just new tech.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:04:03 am
1 challenge per half until it speeds up, don't get rid of it as it just new tech.

Would teams not just use this in the latter stages to waste time though?

If you’re clinging onto a 1-0 in injury time, you could just make a challenge about anything to try and slow the game down.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Disco on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:06:49 am
I hate it but I don't see it going anywhere.

:thup:

The way it has been actively pushed by Sky/BT etc. has also been excruciating and shamelessly blatant.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Northerngimp on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:06:56 am
1 challenge per half until it speeds up, don't get rid of it as it just new tech.

Would teams not just use this in the latter stages to waste time though?

If you’re clinging onto a 1-0 in injury time, you could just make a challenge about anything to try and slow the game down.

Well the ref would ad the time on so trying to time waste wouldn't make a difference.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: triggs on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:13:56 am
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: neesy111 on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:16:17 am
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

:thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Kevo on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:16:33 am
It’s awful. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:18:29 am
I don't really like the idea of challenges, the principle should be to get as many decisions right as possible.

Personally my approach would be to tell players and managers to just accept the decisions of officials.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:21:46 am
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

Haven't we kind of accepted that anyway, over nearly 100 years of the rule being in place?

It's not the fans that have made this introduction necessary, it's the money in the game. A wrong offside call is no longer an unfortunate bit of sporting luck and something to moan about in the pub, it's the potential to lose the glorious riches of the Premier League.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Away Day Gadgie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:35:26 am
Love the idea of VAR as i think a lot of officials are corrupt at worst and weak or incompetant at best. But the way VAR is being implimented at the minute is a joke as there doesn’t seem to be any clear way of using it, we’re seeing bizzarre and confusing incidents in almost every match.  I expected there to be teething problems but they’ve made a total mess of the whole thing, it almost looks deliberate to me.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: thenige on Thursday 1 March 2018, 11:39:46 am
Just let them play the match, then at the end go over every decision and change the score accordingly.

Means teams will always have to attack as you wouldn't know if you're winning 2-0 or actually 0-1 down.

Exactly the kind of wonderful idea I can imagine the brains of World football backing wholeheartedly.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Paully on Thursday 1 March 2018, 12:07:56 pm
Just read that the VAR decisions took eight minutes 30 seconds yet only five minutes were added on at half time!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Thursday 1 March 2018, 12:10:22 pm
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

Better than with VAR in which linesmen aren't going to flag for tight offside calls in the first place as there is literally no benefit in them doing so.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: triggs on Thursday 1 March 2018, 12:19:23 pm


Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

Better than with VAR in which linesmen aren't going to flag for tight offside calls in the first place as there is literally no benefit in them doing so.

Don't see how that's better
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Paully on Thursday 1 March 2018, 12:20:39 pm
Well said Poch!

Pochettino added: 'The first half was embarrassing. Everyone was confused and we need to respect the fans. Emotion is why you pay for the ticket, that is why you come to the game when the conditions are so bad.

'Then you (will) say 'OK, I am going to watch the game through the TV and stay at home because if I cannot shout when we score because we need to wait two minutes, you cannot express yourself'.

“I am for the new technology but be careful when you change the game that we know.'
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: ohmelads on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:12:38 pm
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

Better than with VAR in which linesmen aren't going to flag for tight offside calls in the first place as there is literally no benefit in them doing so.

True, can see a lot of this happening. Linesmen will let play go on despite their doubts and figure that if it leads to a goal, the VAR people will deal with it anyway. It's better than risking wrongly flagging and creating an injustice that VAR can't reverse and having your name in the papers. If linesman start letting anything tight go, it'll lead to a lot of goals (hopefully correctly) being disallowed for offside. When that happens, it in turn creates a situation where fans can never freely celebrate until VAR confirms they've scored a goal.  It dilutes the excitement of a goal going in, and I think that's one of the things which makes football unique compared with other sports.

I was all in favour of the concept because certain teams are getting a lot of dodgy decisions their way while others clearly aren't. But there's no guarantee it'll be applied consistently and I hadn't imagined all this mess it would cause. Sports like rugby, cricket and American football have constant stoppages anyway, so it's easier to apply to those sports.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: The College Dropout on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:17:09 pm
I think it should only be used for blatent issues.  If VAR can’t tell the ref within 30 seconds conclusively then the refs decision goes.

No replaying offsides again and again or penalty decisions.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: The College Dropout on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:19:13 pm
Goal line tech is great. It’s very quick. 

It needs to be that level of speed.

Offside is often too time consuming

Likewise with penalties. 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: pinkeye on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:23:11 pm
That match last night between Spurs and Rochdale was crazy, the ref standing there with his finger to his ear for several minutes waiting for decisions to be made.

The BT Sports team asking their token ref what he thought of the VAR decisions such as the penalty awarded to Spurs for a foul that was outside the box and continued into the box until the Spurs player fell down....  "yes, definitely a penalty"  The amount of these that are awarded as free kicks outside the box makes that decision alone ludicrous..

I honestly think if the VAR had said free kick outside the box them their commentary ref (Graham Poll I think) would probably have agreed with that as well..

If they are going to do it then it should be like rugby with the conversation being played through the PA System in the ground for all to hear.

As it stands right now I absolutely hate it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Disco on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:30:30 pm
Well said Poch!

Pochettino added: 'The first half was embarrassing. Everyone was confused and we need to respect the fans. Emotion is why you pay for the ticket, that is why you come to the game when the conditions are so bad.

'Then you (will) say 'OK, I am going to watch the game through the TV and stay at home because if I cannot shout when we score because we need to wait two minutes, you cannot express yourself'.

“I am for the new technology but be careful when you change the game that we know.'

Couldn't agree more.

There are many, many things that need fixing in football ahead of this non-broken issue.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: sixx on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:37:28 pm
Doubt it'll happen but if VAR is not going to be implemented then fans have to just accept that linesmen aren't going to get tight offside calls right all the time as they are basically guessing

Haven't we kind of accepted that anyway, over nearly 100 years of the rule being in place?

It's not the fans that have made this introduction necessary, it's the money in the game. A wrong offside call is no longer an unfortunate bit of sporting luck and something to moan about in the pub, it's the potential to lose the glorious riches of the Premier League.
This. It's just a manifestation of how football has become so horribly monetized. Also think there's a level of self-entitlement about it. Just steers football away from being fun and further towards being first and foremost a business. Just dull.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: thomas on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:38:12 pm
It seems poorly implemented now if the wait is genuinely that long. I didn't watch the match but if it's causing ridiculous stoppages then it's s****.

That said, i genuinely believe reducing the capacity for human error to be a good thing and not draining of the soul of the sport. in any sport. someone is either onside or they're not, it's not a judgement call. I think a good balance of application has to be found and maybe the results of the first iteration of an idea shouldn't be used as a bludgeon against future improvements.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Twinport53 on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:45:43 pm
For me it's s*** because it is not VAR, it's VR. The actual ref has no control, as what he decides is then overturned by some bloke 100 miles away.

VAR should only be used if the ref legitimately needs help or he's made a blatant error. Not for over analysing every tackle, foul, offside call and goal.

Last night the ref actually asked "What for?" when he was told VAR had seen something. It's to invasive.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:56:02 pm
Does anyone have a summary of how and when it's actually supposed to work?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: jdckelly on Thursday 1 March 2018, 01:57:40 pm
its been very poorly implemented, main issue I have is since the refs mic's aren't heard by anyone but themselves and at the stadiums they don't show what the hell they're doing while the game is just stopped then the crowd at the game is completely left in the dark at least with rugby, cricket or tennis they show whats being reviewed. Throw in the time it takes and it probably just doesn't work well with football and honestly I'd prefer it if they just used the additional assistant refs behind the goals as they do with the champions league.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Yorkie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 03:08:05 pm
I think it's unnecessary and, to make matters worse, is being horribly delivered. I appreciate the angle that it's a 'work in progress,' but it's been so far away from anything acceptable that I can't see the final product being anything other than clunky and s***.

Can we get a poll?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Thursday 1 March 2018, 03:13:58 pm
It seems poorly implemented now if the wait is genuinely that long. I didn't watch the match but if it's causing ridiculous stoppages then it's s****.

That said, i genuinely believe reducing the capacity for human error to be a good thing and not draining of the soul of the sport. in any sport. someone is either onside or they're not, it's not a judgement call. I think a good balance of application has to be found and maybe the results of the first iteration of an idea shouldn't be used as a bludgeon against future improvements.

In theory, but not in any reasonable practice.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Infinitely Content on Thursday 1 March 2018, 03:26:03 pm
I think the fact of the matter is that if it's to be made compulsory, people will get used to it and it will become an accepted side of the game - regardless of how much people dislike it at present. I also believe most of us would be happy with it if it was seamlessly done consistently, it's hard to argue with as a concept, but the current implication & example of it has shown it's ambiguous & ugly sides.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 03:39:25 pm
I think it's unnecessary and, to make matters worse, is being horribly delivered. I appreciate the angle that it's a 'work in progress,' but it's been so far away from anything acceptable that I can't see the final product being anything other than clunky and s***.

Can we get a poll?

Added the poll.

I really fail to understand why Sky/BT are so unanimously in favour of it. Controversial decisions form a huge amount of their analysis like, why would they want to lose that? :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Thursday 1 March 2018, 03:40:53 pm
Is the plan to eventually have all PL games using VAR or only those in the allocated TV slots?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:30:20 pm
I think it's unnecessary and, to make matters worse, is being horribly delivered. I appreciate the angle that it's a 'work in progress,' but it's been so far away from anything acceptable that I can't see the final product being anything other than clunky and s***.

Can we get a poll?

Added the poll.

I really fail to understand why Sky/BT are so unanimously in favour of it. Controversial decisions form a huge amount of their analysis like, why would they want to lose that? :lol:

The broadcasters are the ones who provide the video footage to the VAR team - is there a financial incentive? Are the FA paying them? Genuinely have no idea.

Are they that in favour though? The BT team certainly weren't last night.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:40:24 pm
I think the point about it disturbing celebrations of players and supporters is showing itself to be increasingly strong, it wasn't something I thought would be that much of an issue but it is.

Football's a game more than any other where that one moment might mean everything and this thing throws the balance right off. Points in tennis, rugby, American football, wickets in cricket, all come so regularly, yes one decision can affect a match but not like football where goals are so sparse. You don't get that explosion of a crowd for a wicket or a try unless it's particularly crucial or late.

Of course there's always been the risk of a late flag but that's not the same as this. If somebody is forensically checking each goal for an infringement and you're having to wait for confirmation, it's doing significant damage to the sport as a spectacle imo.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: 54 on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:46:20 pm
Just seen the highlights from the Spurs game, that disallowed goal decision is just flat out wrong, the penalty should have been a free-kick as contact was outside the box, I'm not sure on the rules regarding the actual penalty, but people do that run up all the time and it never gets recalled. What a s*** show. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:49:24 pm
Nah the penalty decision and disallowing it were both correct. Loads of players stutter in the run up but Son flat out stopped.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:50:34 pm
The law seems to say that Son did nothing wrong.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:51:13 pm
Nah the penalty decision and disallowing it were both correct. Loads of players stutter in the run up but Son flat out stopped.


Doesn't matter. If only matters if he actually feints the shot e.g. Messi vs Milan.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: ponsaelius on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:52:45 pm
I hate it with every fibre of my being, for a whole host of different reasons.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 1 March 2018, 04:56:13 pm
Surprised more people don't do that then. Almost a guaranteed goal.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Yorkie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:10:35 pm
I hate it with every fibre of my being, for a whole host of different reasons.

:thup:

Like you say, I don't really know where to start with all the reasons to be opposed... but I find it very sad that there is no room for consultation with supporters for something which will have potentially enormous ramifications on the very nature of the sport.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: oldtype on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:25:25 pm
Takes a few years for all the kinks to be worked out of this sort of thing.  Eventually the decision times are going to get much faster and they'll get a better handle on which decisions should be reviewed.  I wouldn't be looking to throw things out just because it's not working well immediately.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Yorkie on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:32:12 pm
I'm all for progress but I'm still yet to hear one solitary argument for why it is even needed or how it would benefit the sport, regardless of any of the negative impacts it carries with it.

After almost two centuries of matches solely featuring human participation, I honestly don't know what problem it's supposed to be solving. Aye, you get the odd car crash of a decision and it's extremely galling in the moment (and potentially enduring), but 99.9999999% of calls are justifiable, once you consider that every minutiae to a passage of play has an effect on what follows. The existing referees do an ample job of governing that and should be allowed to forever more without the aid of forensic analysis.

It's almost like VAR is some inevitable, immovable hazard which has been bestowed on the sport and we're having to come up with ways to manage it, like bad weather. As opposed to some idea which has been given the go-ahead based on risk assessment and consultation.

I honestly detest the whole thing for this and all the other reasons mentioned in this thread, and it makes me sad.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Hughesy on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:37:42 pm
Admittedly I haven't been at a game where VAR has been used, but I don't really get the idea that you now can't celebrate the scoring of a goal.  Surely you just celebrate on the assumption that you have scored a goal?  Goals get disallowed quite frequently anyway for offside or various infringements, but it doesn't stop people celebrating as if the goal is a goal.  It's the same in cricket - the point at which you take a wicket is still a moment of celebration.

Just seems a s*** argument to me.

EDIT: hadn't read Wullie's post, but I don't agree!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:39:30 pm
I think the point about it disturbing celebrations of players and supporters is showing itself to be increasingly strong, it wasn't something I thought would be that much of an issue but it is.

Football's a game more than any other where that one moment might mean everything and this thing throws the balance right off. Points in tennis, rugby, American football, wickets in cricket, all come so regularly, yes one decision can affect a match but not like football where goals are so sparse. You don't get that explosion of a crowd for a wicket or a try unless it's particularly crucial or late.

Of course there's always been the risk of a late flag but that's not the same as this. If somebody is forensically checking each goal for an infringement and you're having to wait for confirmation, it's doing significant damage to the sport as a spectacle imo.

This is the main reason I don’t want it, to be honest.

I’m the first to moan when a decision incorrectly goes against us, but I’d rather have that then dilute the game even more with VAR. Cant think of anything worse than the ‘norm’ being a 5 second pause after the ball hits the net whilst the crowd check if the referee is referring to VAR, prior to celebrating.

It’d be a complete farce and we’d see more scenes like Burton at home last season, where we have officials wandering around the pitch whilst everyone else is in total confusion.

Apparently, VAR has a 98% success rate of getting decisions right (SSN), I’d question why the f*** that isn’t 100% like :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 1 March 2018, 05:46:42 pm
Admittedly I haven't been at a game where VAR has been used, but I don't really get the idea that you now can't celebrate the scoring of a goal.  Surely you just celebrate on the assumption that you have scored a goal?  Goals get disallowed quite frequently anyway for offside or various infringements, but it doesn't stop people celebrating as if the goal is a goal.  It's the same in cricket - the point at which you take a wicket is still a moment of celebration.

Just seems a s*** argument to me.

EDIT: hadn't read Wullie's post, but I don't agree!

Where there is an infringement, there is usually a flag and/or whistle before the ball his the net - so a lot of people in the ground notice this prior to celebrating and the celebrations are never ‘full on’. It’s highly unusual that a goal is chalked off and the whole stadium is in pandemonium.

VAR would disallow the goal anywhere from 15 seconds to 2 minutes (as we’ve seen) after the ball hits the net, it’s totally different to looking up after jumping out of your seat and noticing an offside flag, imo.

Add in the waiting around tor a decision and then another round of almost plastic celebrations if the goal is given and it’s totally rancid, imo.

As others have said, VAR is used in sports that are nowhere near as celebratory as football is where there is a goal - which is why it works in those sports but wouldn’t in ours.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: timeEd32 on Thursday 1 March 2018, 06:33:49 pm
The two best implementations of video/tech in sports are tennis and football (goal-line) because they are nearly instant (and not surprising humans have been completely removed).

Video reviews in baseball and the NFL are painfully slow, but the big difference is both of those sports are naturally stop/start. Long replay reviews in basketball feel worse than those other two sports and a football match is similar. It loses all momentum.

I'm 100% in favor of using technology to ensure decisions are made correctly, but they need a system that balances accuracy with speed. If a decision can't obviously be changed within X amount of time (maybe 30 seconds?) then stick with the ruling on the field. Egregious errors will be fixed with a lot less impact on the game.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 1 March 2018, 09:38:50 pm
?s=21
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Cronky on Friday 2 March 2018, 07:11:26 am
Ours is a sport where too many decisions rest on difficult matters of opinion, rather than clear cut matters of fact. Technology isn't going to get round that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: nufcjb on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:08:26 am
surely it needs a challenge system. These ref are ruining the game by looking at everything doubtful. Give a team 3 challenges per game. up to them when to use it. each challenge and the decision should be made within 90 seconds.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:38:38 am
?s=21
I'm all for it now after reading that
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Paully on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:02:10 am
MARTIN SAMUEL: We must help paying fans to work out the chaos of VAR

http://dailym.ai/2FI6wpt
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:30:46 am
After seeing the trial, I'd say offsides and that's it. That should take 10-15 seconds for the 4th official just to see a replay with the lines etc.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: steve_69 on Friday 2 March 2018, 10:41:51 am
It's a situation that's easily rectified - if the players would stop f***ing throwing themselves to the ground at every opportunity VAR would only be needed for offside decisions. I think it's great that it's proving to be such a mess and taking ages because its frustrating the very players whose cheating has created the need for it. f*** em!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Friday 2 March 2018, 07:52:16 pm
After seeing the trial, I'd say offsides and that's it. That should take 10-15 seconds for the 4th official just to see a replay with the lines etc.

I don’t see why this isn’t how they do it. Why do they have a bloke sat in a room 100 miles away from the stadium? :lol: Why doesn’t the 4th official not just watch it and advise the referee?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Mbemba Youre A Womble on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:16:28 pm
For offside calls I think there should be a level of grey area used. The Mata against Huddersfield offside call was technically right, but we surely can agree that it's an absurd ruling. Nobody would have ever considered that to be an obvious error on the part of the linesman.

If the linesman has missed an offside upon VAR, and it falls outside such a grey area - basically factoring in the level of judgement from the human eye, and the time delay in actually raising a flag from seeing the ball being kicked - then it can be ruled out from VAR.

Factoring in a margin for error would also continue to give the linesman's continued participation at every call validity. Forcing the linesman to make every call as they would do normally - thus not effecting the judgement across their profession. (not every game they'll officiate will have VAR). If they get into a habit of letting marginal calls go, knowing that VAR will make the call anyway - that could actually seriously lower the standard of officiating.

I've got huge problems with it's implementation in certain games, but not others. Using it in selective cup matches, essentially TV games at PL stadiums is affording different privilege to certain teams than others, and ultimately brings into question the integrity of the competitions. Although unfortunate, I would have loved for an error to occurred one weekend in the FA Cup, or one tie in the League Cup where the VAR wasn't in use. This would have highlighted it's sporadic use to the favour of TV companies, and bigger teams wholly unfair.  It wasn't used in the first leg of Spurs vs. Rochdale, but it was in the second leg. How is that right?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Greg on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:29:29 pm
For offside calls I think there should be a level of grey area used. The Mata against Huddersfield offside call was technically right, but we surely can agree that it's an absurd ruling. Nobody would have ever considered that to be an obvious error on the part of the linesman.

If the linesman has missed an offside upon VAR, and it falls outside such a grey area - basically factoring in the level of judgement from the human eye, and the time delay in actually raising a flag from seeing the ball being kicked - then it can be ruled out from VAR.

Factoring in a margin for error would also continue to give the linesman's continued participation at every call validity. Forcing the linesman to make every call as they would do normally - thus not effecting the judgement across their profession. (not every game they'll officiate will have VAR). If they get into a habit of letting marginal calls go, knowing that VAR will make the call anyway - that could actually seriously lower the standard of officiating.

I've got huge problems with it's implementation in certain games, but not others. Using it in selective cup matches, essentially TV games at PL stadiums is affording different privilege to certain teams than others, and ultimately brings into question the integrity of the competitions. Although unfortunate, I would have loved for an error to occurred one weekend in the FA Cup, or one tie in the League Cup where the VAR wasn't in use. This would have highlighted it's sporadic use to the favour of TV companies, and bigger teams wholly unfair.  It wasn't used in the first leg of Spurs vs. Rochdale, but it was in the second leg. How is that right?

verb
1.
test (something, especially a new product) to assess its suitability or performance.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:33:42 pm
Tracking chips implanted in the ball and players kit would be much easier and quicker than video reviews for offside.

Doesn't solve the problem of implementing it at lower levels though. Already have that with the goal-line stuff mind.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Mbemba Youre A Womble on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:34:18 pm
Tracking chips implanted in the ball and players kit would be much easier and quicker than video reviews for offside.

What happens when your sock/part of clothing with the chip in it is onside, but your other leg is offside?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:46:50 pm
Tracking chips implanted in the ball and players kit would be much easier and quicker than video reviews for offside.

Doesn't solve the problem of implementing it at lower levels though. Already have that with the goal-line stuff mind.

That's the same with the other sports that have this technology though?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:47:34 pm
Reconsidered that post five seconds after making it and it still got quoted twice :lol:

@Mbemba  - One in each boot, one in the shirt collar.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:49:53 pm
What if you're forehead is offside but nothing else is. Or your arse, Or your knee
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:51:37 pm
Tracking chips implanted in the ball and players kit would be much easier and quicker than video reviews for offside.

Doesn't solve the problem of implementing it at lower levels though. Already have that with the goal-line stuff mind.

That's the same with the other sports that have this technology though?

Which I don't think is great either. However I don't really give a f*** about them. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 08:52:20 pm
What if you're forehead is offside but nothing else is. Or your arse, Or your knee

Well, a lino isn't gonna spot that anyway so makes no odds really.  If they do spot it they can call offside anyway. 

Spoiler
[close]
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:00:01 pm
What if you're forehead is offside but nothing else is. Or your arse, Or your knee

Well, a lino isn't gonna spot that anyway so makes no odds really.  If they do spot it they can call offside anyway. 

Spoiler
[close]

Surely it would be a bit daft to have electric chips only if your shirt collar or boots are offside and then just allow wrong decisions to be made if any other goalscoring part of your body is offside.

Mata had a goal ruled out a few weeks ago through VAR because his knee was offside, an electric chip in his boot would have said he was onside
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:08:16 pm
What if you're forehead is offside but nothing else is. Or your arse, Or your knee

Well, a lino isn't gonna spot that anyway so makes no odds really.  If they do spot it they can call offside anyway. 

Spoiler
[close]

Surely it would be a bit daft to have electric chips only if your shirt collar or boots are offside and then just allow wrong decisions to be made if any other goalscoring part of your body is offside.

Mata had a goal ruled out a few weeks ago through VAR because his knee was offside, an electric chip in his boot would have said he was onside

The ref could still rule it out for offside.  It's to assist decisions, not replace the ref and linesmen.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:09:23 pm
How would the ref know to rule it out for offside? Neither the ref or the linesman knew Mata's knee was offside the other week
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:10:09 pm
How would the ref rule it out for offside?

How do they rule things out for offside now? :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:11:50 pm
How would the ref rule it out for offside?

How do they rule things out for offside now? :lol:

(https://z55cs7m7rg43v2f4blrxlpsgy5o3pomvrlnnihlkb3p3tm6gyxfa.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1200/s/i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7791025.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/aguero-offside-main.jpg)

Will never forget this :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:12:39 pm
How would the ref rule it out for offside?

How do they rule things out for offside now? :lol:

They rely on the linesman, but with the Mata decision a few weeks ago, neither the ref or linesman saw that his knee was offside and an electric chip in his boot wouldn't have got to a correct decision either
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:19:09 pm
How would the ref rule it out for offside?

How do they rule things out for offside now? :lol:

They rely on the linesman, but with the Mata decision a few weeks ago, neither the ref or linesman saw that his knee was offside and an electric chip in his boot wouldn't have got to a correct decision either

Well, that probably wouldn't get caught then but on the other hand a lot of other decisions would and it'd be instant so no waiting around or a few minutes for a review.  I'd imagine it as and aid to the officials, not a replacement.  If a player's offside then the ref gets a notification, maybe a buzzer on his wrist or a sound though his earpiece or something, and he uses his judgement to make the call.  Keeps the flow of the game and the human aspect but improves the decision making.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:21:29 pm
It could result in plenty of incorrect deicisions though.

Imagine if we got a goal ruled out for offside but then it turned out that a defender's knee was actually playing him onside but because the chips were only in the boots it was ruled offside by the ref's buzzer
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Mbemba Youre A Womble on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:24:12 pm
Make the players all wear electronic suits under their kits. Somehow code the laws of game into them, in this example the offside rule. That can then set off a glaxon as soon as their big toe steps offside.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:29:30 pm
You're talking about complete edge cases, how often is an offside called or missed because of a knee?  The alternative is stopping the game for a couple of minutes, I like this way better.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: neesy111 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:30:02 pm
Just use cameras with AI tracking them, not revolutionary stuff nowadays to do.  Amazon has a shop that will let you walk out with groceries and will bill you for them.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: joeyt on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:30:38 pm
You're talking about complete edge cases, how often is an offside called or missed because of a knee?  The alternative is stopping the game for a couple of minutes, I like this way better.

I thought the whole technology debate was to ensure that decisions were all made to ensure 100% accuracy anyway. I'd be absolutely furious if we had a goal disallowed because a piece of technology like an electronic chip wrongly thought it was offside when it should have been onside. Much more furious than if a linesman made a human error in giving it offside.

The alternate could just be to leave things as it is without VAR, which would be my preference
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: loki679 on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:46:45 pm
You're talking about complete edge cases, how often is an offside called or missed because of a knee?  The alternative is stopping the game for a couple of minutes, I like this way better.

I thought the whole technology debate was to ensure that decisions were all made to ensure 100% accuracy anyway. I'd be absolutely furious if we had a goal disallowed because a piece of technology like an electronic chip wrongly thought it was offside when it should have been onside. Much more furious than if a linesman made a human error in giving it offside.

The alternate could just be to leave things as it is without VAR, which would be my preference

If the trade-off for 100% accuracy is stopping and starting the game like this then i'd rather not have it at all.  The system I described could improve decision making without harming the flow of the game.  Yeah, it probably wouldn't be 100% accurate but for me it's better than the current system and doesn't result in long delays and a stop-start game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Mbemba Youre A Womble on Friday 2 March 2018, 09:59:40 pm
As long as there is a human element into the decision making, you can never achieve 100% accuracy.

Goal line technology works, because it's a simple case of yes or no. It requires zero input from the officials.

In the current guise of VAR, it's just an added layer of human officiating. How it's currently being used seems wasteful and misguided, but I really can't see how it can be used in a way that strikes the balance between significantly enhancing officiating standards whilst not changing the fundamental sporting identity of football.

I've not actually heard any one in the media make the point that football is fundamentally a different sport to what Rugby, Tennis, Cricket are. Not in so much as the spectacle, and what the fans demand from an entertainment point of view; but actually the laws that facilitate the flow of the game, and existing officiating practices don't allow technology to flawlessly slot into place.

Just seems we are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with this aspect of technology, and really just throwing good money after bad. We've already got goal line technology, proven to work flawlessly. Surely better use of finance from governing bodies would be to make this a more widespread across different levels of the sport.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Nobody on Friday 2 March 2018, 11:12:25 pm
How would the ref rule it out for offside?

How do they rule things out for offside now? :lol:

(https://z55cs7m7rg43v2f4blrxlpsgy5o3pomvrlnnihlkb3p3tm6gyxfa.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1200/s/i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7791025.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/aguero-offside-main.jpg)

Will never forget this :lol:
I'm sure one of the pundits said it was poor defending while acknowledging that he was miles offside :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Saturday 3 March 2018, 12:12:44 am
Louise Taylor.

Quote
City’s breakthrough came from a free kick awarded for Townsend’s foul on Kolarov. The left back delivered an incisive dead ball but Newcastle could surely have done better than permit Agüero a free header. Barely believing his luck, the striker – who was a yard or two offside – duly registered his 100th Premier League goal for City and the 22nd of the season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Friday 16 March 2018, 09:00:29 pm
Video assistant referees will be used at the World Cup for the first time after Fifa formally approved the technology for this year's tournament.

VAR has been trialled in some domestic English cup games this season, and has been used in Germany and Italy.

"We need to live with the times," said Fifa president Gianni Infantino.

"We wanted to give the referees tools so they can make better decisions, and in the World Cup some very important decisions are made."

He added: "It's not possible that in 2018 everyone in their living room knows a few seconds after the play whether a referee has made a mistake and the referee doesn't."

VAR was first used at the Club World Cup in December 2016, and trialled in the 2017 Confederations Cup.

The system was described as "comical" and "embarrassing" after Tottenham's 6-1 FA Cup win over Rochdale in late February, when a goal was disallowed and a converted penalty overturned.

The Premier League is not expected to introduce VAR next season, and Uefa has already said it will not be used in the 2018-19 Champions League.

Spain's La Liga and France's Ligue 1 are to introduce it from next season, while the Bundesliga will decide on 22 March.

"I was sceptical at first, but without trying you cannot know what it's worth," Infantino added.

"Without VAR, a referee can make one important mistake every three matches. With VAR, the figures we have seen from the trials that have been held show that a big mistake is made once every 19 matches."

The world governing body's formal announcement comes after the International Football Association Board (Ifab) "unanimously approved" the introduction of VAR on a permanent basis earlier this month.

Ifab is made up of Fifa and the Football Associations of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Each FA has one vote to Fifa's four, with six votes required for a change in the laws.

The body made the decision to approve the technology following the results of independent analysis conducted by Belgian university KU Leuven.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: triggs on Friday 16 March 2018, 09:06:23 pm
Not a big fan of VAR in general but I think the World Cup is so big and means so much and is also only once every four years that getting the correct decisions is essential if possible. I guess the issue is that it often seems to make the wrong decision anyway [emoji38]
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: jdckelly on Friday 16 March 2018, 09:09:45 pm
f*** that s***
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: sadnesstan on Friday 16 March 2018, 09:52:12 pm
Guest of honour at the opening ceremony will be the linesman that awarded our 3rd goal in 66, to tell us all how the world would have been so different if we'd had VAR back then.

Now that i will accept as an attack on our nation.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: Wullie on Friday 16 March 2018, 09:55:34 pm
Not a big fan of VAR in general but I think the World Cup is so big and means so much and is also only once every four years that getting the correct decisions is essential if possible. I guess the issue is that it often seems to make the wrong decision anyway [emoji38]

I think the opposite, it's too much of a mess in its current form to use on such a big occasion. It'll be a proper farce.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: ohmelads on Saturday 17 March 2018, 02:17:20 am
It's obviously not ready and has turned cup games into a joke this season. Fans and players not knowing what's going on, refs using it for all sorts of decisions it wasn't designed for, ridiculously long stoppages. I bet there are plenty in the game who are already looking at how it can be used to bring in advertising like in American sports. Mental to be trialing this at a World Cup.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: nemtizz on Saturday 17 March 2018, 03:57:03 am
Genuinely tragic news.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 March 2018, 10:07:13 am
It's obviously not ready and has turned cup games into a joke this season. Fans and players not knowing what's going on, refs using it for all sorts of decisions it wasn't designed for, ridiculously long stoppages. I bet there are plenty in the game who are already looking at how it can be used to bring in advertising like in American sports. Mental to be trialing this at a World Cup.
It's worked quite efficiently on Germany apparently
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: morla84 on Saturday 17 March 2018, 10:12:09 am
Got to be the least excited I've ever been for a tournament
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) to be used at the World Cup
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Friday 13 April 2018, 04:48:38 pm
PL clubs have voted against using VAR next season. It’ll remain as a ‘test’.

Happy days.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Friday 13 April 2018, 11:16:27 pm
Hopefully by then the football world will start to realise that it’s just not for football. For sports that are slow paced or allow you to go back and watch things ok, football isn’t that sport, in fact football is probably the only sport that isn’t suitable for it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: nemtizz on Friday 13 April 2018, 11:26:06 pm
GTFI
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: huss9 on Saturday 14 April 2018, 02:48:04 pm
if VAR comes in, it needs to be requested by the managers instead of the ref.
dont need refs bottling decisions. the ref needs to do his job properly and not decide "oh, i can always VAR that incident".

each manager should get 3 VAR's  game - max 2 per half.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:32:20 pm
if VAR comes in, it needs to be requested by the managers instead of the ref.
dont need refs bottling decisions. the ref needs to do his job properly and not decide "oh, i can always VAR that incident".

each manager should get 3 VAR's  game - max 2 per half.

So the potential of 6 stoppages in a game? Each lasting up to 5 minutes? f*** that.

Plus, managers would use their VAR appeals tactically. If they are holding onto a 1-0 lead with minutes remaining and getting battered, they’d just VAR any decision to break up the play.

Just don’t implement it at all. Stifler is spot on with what he said.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:35:44 pm
If you did it properly and had a couple of VAR refs reviewing incidents as they happen, it'd work as the ref would get the decision from the video refs almost immediately. As it is right now it does not work at all because the ref himself reviews things.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Tiresias on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:42:01 pm
If you did it properly and had a couple of VAR refs reviewing incidents as they happen, it'd work as the ref would get the decision from the video refs almost immediately. As it is right now it does not work at all because the ref himself reviews things.

Aye but i think they really want the on pitch ref to be the one to make all the calls which i can see the logic of in a way but there needs to be a less disruptive way of doing it
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:43:54 pm
If you did it properly and had a couple of VAR refs reviewing incidents as they happen, it'd work as the ref would get the decision from the video refs almost immediately. As it is right now it does not work at all because the ref himself reviews things.

Aye but i think they really want the on pitch ref to be the one to make all the calls which i can see the logic of in a way but there needs to be a less disruptive way of doing it

Honestly don't want it if the ref on the pitch has to review things. It'll always slow things down. You need refs that only reviews the footage all the time so a decision can reach the ref as quickly as possible. Should take less than 30 seconds from the second the ref blows his whistle on the pitch.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: sbnufc on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:46:21 pm
VAR is fine in Germany and Italy, isnt it?  Don't see any fans from those places saying they have to get rid of it
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Tiresias on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:49:20 pm
I think if it was Kaizeros method it would only be to convey strictly factual stuff, like ref could ask 'was it in the box' 'were they offside' or on the edge of being dangerously open to interpretation 'was there contact with the other player'
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 14 April 2018, 08:54:22 pm
VAR is fine in Germany and Italy, isnt it?  Don't see any fans from those places saying they have to get rid of it

Pretty unpopular from what I hear on various podcasts.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-italy-referees/serie-a-coaches-angry-and-baffled-over-var-decisions-idUKKBN1FI1HI

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/var-has-not-been-an-overwhelming-success-in-the-bundesliga
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: The College Dropout on Saturday 14 April 2018, 09:01:37 pm
Should only use it for facts. Clearly offside.  Inside or outside box.  Fouls are subjective.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: sbnufc on Saturday 14 April 2018, 09:09:04 pm
VAR is fine in Germany and Italy, isnt it?  Don't see any fans from those places saying they have to get rid of it

Pretty unpopular from what I hear on various podcasts.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-italy-referees/serie-a-coaches-angry-and-baffled-over-var-decisions-idUKKBN1FI1HI

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/var-has-not-been-an-overwhelming-success-in-the-bundesliga

Fair enough. All I've seen is people on reddit saying it's fine and a success on the whole

This was one about Italy https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/7qr84t/var_in_numbers_an_italian_success_link_in_italian/
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: TheHoob on Monday 16 April 2018, 09:54:54 pm
?s=21
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Mikky on Monday 16 April 2018, 10:00:10 pm
I just can't be having VAR - it will ruin football
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Twinport53 on Monday 16 April 2018, 10:12:01 pm
You can't be doing that man :lol: How much time has to pass before you can't retrospectively change a decision?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Tiresias on Monday 16 April 2018, 10:15:53 pm
Just to be a contrarian b****** instead of all this stopping loads of play for VAR mid match just embrace this, get to the end of the half, ref then watches any missed pens, gives players any red cards should have happened and have a few pens for each time for every missed foul. Half time will be 10x as exciting.  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: neesy111 on Monday 16 April 2018, 10:17:01 pm
You can't be doing that man :lol: How much time has to pass before you can't retrospectively change a decision?

Weeks if you're juventus.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: jdckelly on Monday 16 April 2018, 10:58:27 pm
is that even allowed in the bloody rules?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Elma on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 09:15:10 am
Am up for VAR, but it is being applied in the wrong way. It should only be used on goals and when penalties are given, or for cases of mistaken identity on red cards. If a penalty isn't given on the field then tough. That's the ref's call and he shouldn't be allowed to go to VAR to help him. When a goal is scored, the VAR ref should immediately it review it for obvious offsides, handballs etc, and communicate back if there is any reason to disallow it. If the offside is tight then let it go. The rule even allows for that.

I would expect Aguero's header against us a couple of years ago to be disallowed for example as it was clearly off. Watford's equaliser against Southampton this year would have been cancelled out too (for handball). You'll get fans celebrating goals which are overturned but it will be a couple a season and I think it's more important to get the decision right where a significant error has occurred.

Each review would therefore take place in a natural break in play, but they do need to rethink the speed of review and comms with the fans during the review.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 12:05:23 pm
How far in the build-up would you go back in order to rule out a goal?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Elma on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 12:14:42 pm
How far in the build-up would you go back in order to rule out a goal?

I'd only call handball when it's a hand that puts it in the net and missed by the ref, so that only leaves offsides. For me it would be any pass in the phase of play leading up to the goal, bearing in mind I'd only call obvious offsides. Anything where it is a foot here or a knee there then it goes with the onfield decision. However, in saying that, if the powers that be declared it to be the final ball only and the goalscorer themselves has to be obviously off to recall it, I'd go with that. As long as it is consistent. What they are trying to do is remove every mistake which isn't feasible.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 12:17:17 pm
I just don't see how checking on (say) a final ball offside would deliver the right outcome if you ignored (for example) a foul in the build-up. I guess it's a step forward in a way, but it really just moves the debate and controversy to something else.

I can see a very weird game, with no real goal celebrations, developing. Where everyone is waiting a minute to see if they've scored.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 12:18:01 pm
Just to be a contrarian b****** instead of all this stopping loads of play for VAR mid match just embrace this, get to the end of the half, ref then watches any missed pens, gives players any red cards should have happened and have a few pens for each time for every missed foul. Half time will be 10x as exciting.  :lol: :lol:

Better than cheerleaders, or fans trying to chip a ball into a bucket wearing brogues.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Elma on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 12:25:33 pm
I just don't see how checking on (say) a final ball offside would deliver the right outcome if you ignored (for example) a foul in the build-up. I guess it's a step forward in a way, but it really just moves the debate and controversy to something else.

I can see a very weird game, with no real goal celebrations, developing. Where everyone is waiting a minute to see if they've scored.

I take your point, but the numbers of goals it would actually rule out would be tiny, around 2-3%. Once you got used to it goals would still be celebrated. Another option is of course to give each team one or two VAR challenges a game and not allow the VAR ref to intercede unless a challenge is raised. That would cover the real injustices, although on the flip side you could see teams using them tactically like substitutions to disrupt play. Maybe one each would be sufficient?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: nufcjb on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 01:23:48 pm
i would really like them to think and do a trial for a Challenge system. say 3 challenges per team in a whole match or each half. if a team puts in a challenge over a decision they feel is wrong, VAR is used. That would stop referees or even those numbskulls in a studio miles away interrupting with play at their own will.

Edit: Just read Elma's post.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 01:27:06 pm
Challenges would be absolutely s****. Teams would just do it to slow the game down and waste time
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 01:27:13 pm
If we’re talking about 2% of decisions being incorrect, 6 ‘challenges’ per match sounds ridiculously over the top.

Challenges at all wouldn’t work anyway, as they would be used tactically.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 01:39:47 pm
If the objective is to get the most important decisions right, I don't think the power should be given to anyone who's not impartial.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: nemtizz on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 01:45:46 pm
Weird how giving more power to already incompetent referees doesn't fix the sport, f*** it off immediately.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Tuesday 17 April 2018, 02:05:17 pm
I'd rather just back referees TBH, get players to stop cheating so much would help as well.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: loki679 on Saturday 21 April 2018, 05:24:21 am
Why can't they just stick a screen on the refs arm?  He presses a button and it plays back the last 10 seconds in slow-mo.  There's really no need for this to be done off the pitch.

It's f***ing stupid anyway, just play the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Anon on Saturday 21 April 2018, 06:35:36 am
Doesn't seem half as s*** in rugby.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: jdckelly on Saturday 21 April 2018, 11:32:32 am
Doesn't seem half as s*** in rugby.
people know what's going on when it goes to the TMO in rugby, ref's fully mic'd up and you can hear what he's looking for the tv ref to look for, whereas the current implementation has nobody but the ref and his asssistants know what the f*** he's looking for and god help you if your at the stadium and want to know whats going on
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Saturday 21 April 2018, 01:49:10 pm
Doesn't seem half as s*** in rugby.
people know what's going on when it goes to the TMO in rugby, ref's fully mic'd up and you can hear what he's looking for the tv ref to look for, whereas the current implementation has nobody but the ref and his asssistants know what the f*** he's looking for and god help you if your at the stadium and want to know whats going on

Rugby is also a very stop start game and football is totally the wrong sport to implement video referees.

It’d be like stopping the F1 to check something.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Saturday 21 April 2018, 03:43:47 pm
Why can't they just stick a screen on the refs arm?  He presses a button and it plays back the last 10 seconds in slow-mo.  There's really no need for this to be done off the pitch.

It's f***ing stupid anyway, just play the game.
Why can’t they just train up decent referee’s and Linesmen?

A professional sport where the players get millions at the others levels, possibly the most money in anyway sport. You then have referee’s who meet up to train once a week, even at the grassroutes level you have to pay for expensive courses to become an official. There is no programme to invest in and train officials.

Also all this talk about the game being too fast is f***ing bullshit. How come the players have been able to keep up to speed with their reactions for challenges etc. Keepers have kept up to speed with the speed of attacking players and the change in movement modern balls make. Managers can keep up to speed with tactics and have no problem seeing challenges, offsides etc, the fans are the same. The only person who hasn’t kept up to speed is the referee’s and officials, and at the highest level it’s very much a case of them being bothered to work to do so.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Saturday 21 April 2018, 06:18:50 pm
They are decent man, fans just love to blame them.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Monday 23 April 2018, 12:31:50 pm
So, VAR was in use yesterday and a perfectly good goal was still ruled out. Great stuff.

Never a foul in a million years on the keeper.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: NobbyOhNobby on Monday 23 April 2018, 12:35:06 pm
I really hope VAR never gets used in the premier league. Goal line technology is great, but VAR is a step too far and just isn't needed. The premier league is fast-paced theatre, refereeing mistakes add to the drama, whilst VAR slows the game down and makes it far less of a spectacle.

1/10 WNB
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 08:13:47 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8eji79/var_in_italy_after_346_games_1736_checks_105/

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 08:54:50 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8eji79/var_in_italy_after_346_games_1736_checks_105/

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.

105 decisions changed and 17 of them were wrongfully changed? :lol: Even after watching it over and over again?

So 16% of VAR decisions are wrong? Aye, it’s been a great success then.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:06:32 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8eji79/var_in_italy_after_346_games_1736_checks_105/

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.

105 decisions changed and 17 of them were wrongfully changed? :lol: Even after watching it over and over again?

So 16% of VAR decisions are wrong?
No? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:09:07 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8eji79/var_in_italy_after_346_games_1736_checks_105/

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.

105 decisions changed and 17 of them were wrongfully changed? :lol: Even after watching it over and over again?

So 16% of VAR decisions are wrong?
No? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those that are changed, aye?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:27:54 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8eji79/var_in_italy_after_346_games_1736_checks_105/

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.

105 decisions changed and 17 of them were wrongfully changed? :lol: Even after watching it over and over again?

So 16% of VAR decisions are wrong?
No? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those that are changed, aye?

Literally says: "error rate: 6,05% without VAR, 0,98% with VAR – decrease of fouls (–8,8%), protests (–19,3%), simulations (–43%) – increase of penalties (+4,3%)" in the title :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:43:37 pm
Am I missing something simple here?

It states that 105 decisions were changed on the basis of a VAR review, 17 of them were wrongfully changed.

Therefore, when a decision is changed by VAR, it has a 16% chance of being wrongfully changed?

The rest of the stats are pointless really, the increase in penalties and decrease in fouls could be coincidental and not necessarily an impact of VAR. You’d have to measure those over a good few seasons to get any decent data.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:44:25 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:47:29 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man :lol:

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:51:26 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 09:59:12 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol: As I said, if someone presents me with some random numbers, I’d like to see the actual data behind them.

The difference between those %s could be based on 1000 decisions or 10 decisions, massively altering the impact. Stats on their own are worthless at times, without being put into context.

I could tell you that Mitrovic has been our most successful striker this season with some stats and %’s, which doesn’t actually tell you the true story.

Wrongfully changing 17 out of 105 decisions is shameful and further evidence that VAR should f*** off, imo. The only way I would ever accept it is if decisions were instant and there was a near enough 100% success rate in making a decision with it. Why slow the game down at all if there still remains a relatively high error rate with decisions made.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:04:06 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol:

It's a f***ing hyperlink, man.

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/23-04-2018/var-cartellini-simulazioni-club-serie-a-lezione-rizzoli-260774711797.shtml
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:06:13 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol: As I said, if someone presents me with some random numbers, I’d like to see the actual data behind them.

The difference between those %s could be based on 1000 decisions or 10 decisions, massively altering the impact. Stats on their own are worthless at times, without being put into context.

I could tell you that Mitrovic has been our most successful striker this season with some stats and %’s, which doesn’t actually tell you the true story.

Wrongfully changing 17 out of 105 decisions is shameful and further evidence that VAR should f*** off, imo. The only way I would ever accept it is if decisions were instant and there was a near enough 100% success rate in making a decision with it. Why slow the game down at all if there still remains a relatively high error rate with decisions made.
It's not the overall error rate though

VAR was USED TO CHECK A DECISION 1735 times
1631 out of 1735 it agreed (93.95%)
 105 out of 1735 it overturned it (6.05%)
  17 out of 105 (or 16% of 6%) were overturned incorrectly.

Overall 17/1735 (0.98%) were overturned incorrectly.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:08:25 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol:

It's a f***ing hyperlink, man.

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/23-04-2018/var-cartellini-simulazioni-club-serie-a-lezione-rizzoli-260774711797.shtml

Well I cant read Italian, so that doesn’t count.

The error data seems to relate to ‘before VAR’ and doesn’t state if they are microscoping every tackle, foul, offside, throw-in, corner etc. as opposed to specific match decisions with VAR.

English data stated referees have an error rate of 2%, it’s all judgemental and very difficult to measure. What they can measure though, is that mistakes are still made and that’s inexcusable for me if they have VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:09:33 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol: As I said, if someone presents me with some random numbers, I’d like to see the actual data behind them.

The difference between those %s could be based on 1000 decisions or 10 decisions, massively altering the impact. Stats on their own are worthless at times, without being put into context.

I could tell you that Mitrovic has been our most successful striker this season with some stats and %’s, which doesn’t actually tell you the true story.

Wrongfully changing 17 out of 105 decisions is shameful and further evidence that VAR should f*** off, imo. The only way I would ever accept it is if decisions were instant and there was a near enough 100% success rate in making a decision with it. Why slow the game down at all if there still remains a relatively high error rate with decisions made.
It's not the overall error rate though

VAR was USED TO CHECK A DECISION 1735 times
1631 out of 1735 it agreed (93.95%)
 105 out of 1735 it overturned it (6.05%)
  17 out of 105 (or 16% of 6%) were overturned incorrectly.

Overall 17/1735 (0.98%) were overturned incorrectly.

Again... I’m not talking above the overall error rate, I’m talking about the bit in bold, which is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:10:04 pm
Says you. If you demand perfection from it before it's used then I think that's foolish.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:11:54 pm
Says you. If you demand perfection from it before it's used then I think that's foolish.

Not perfection no, but that % is far too high to even consider slowing our game down even slightly, imo.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:12:40 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol: As I said, if someone presents me with some random numbers, I’d like to see the actual data behind them.

The difference between those %s could be based on 1000 decisions or 10 decisions, massively altering the impact. Stats on their own are worthless at times, without being put into context.

I could tell you that Mitrovic has been our most successful striker this season with some stats and %’s, which doesn’t actually tell you the true story.

Wrongfully changing 17 out of 105 decisions is shameful and further evidence that VAR should f*** off, imo. The only way I would ever accept it is if decisions were instant and there was a near enough 100% success rate in making a decision with it. Why slow the game down at all if there still remains a relatively high error rate with decisions made.
It's not the overall error rate though

VAR was USED TO CHECK A DECISION 1735 times
1631 out of 1735 it agreed (93.95%)
 105 out of 1735 it overturned it (6.05%)
  17 out of 105 (or 16% of 6%) were overturned incorrectly.

Overall 17/1735 (0.98%) were overturned incorrectly.

Again... I’m not talking above the overall error rate, I’m talking about the bit in bold, which is unacceptable.

How do we know the person that checked these and came up with the number that are wrong got the decision that the decision was wrong correct? After all many of the laws of the game state 'if, in the opinion of the referee...'
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:16:38 pm
The error rate with VAR is 0.98% vs 6.05% without VAR. That's the take away here, man [emoji38]

Would be interested to see what data they are using to calculate that.

But that’s not the point I was and still am making. The error rate of the referee still f***ing up and changing the decision incorrectly is 16%, which is ridiculous and adds to the point I made a few weeks ago where the referee on the pitch is influenced by the VAR referee as soon as they tell them to check a decision.

It's not, though. The error rate goes down to 0.98% over 6.05% - even though there still is an error percentage in the decisions they make using VAR. The numbers they'll have used will be the decisions where VAR has been used vs decisions where VAR has not been used, clearly.

I'm not a fan at all of VAR in the form it is currently being used, but I'll still not argue against it clearly being more correct than refs usually are. It's just used wrong and slows down games unnecessarily.

A random stat on Reddit could be based on the square root of f*** all like :lol: As I said, if someone presents me with some random numbers, I’d like to see the actual data behind them.

The difference between those %s could be based on 1000 decisions or 10 decisions, massively altering the impact. Stats on their own are worthless at times, without being put into context.

I could tell you that Mitrovic has been our most successful striker this season with some stats and %’s, which doesn’t actually tell you the true story.

Wrongfully changing 17 out of 105 decisions is shameful and further evidence that VAR should f*** off, imo. The only way I would ever accept it is if decisions were instant and there was a near enough 100% success rate in making a decision with it. Why slow the game down at all if there still remains a relatively high error rate with decisions made.
It's not the overall error rate though

VAR was USED TO CHECK A DECISION 1735 times
1631 out of 1735 it agreed (93.95%)
 105 out of 1735 it overturned it (6.05%)
  17 out of 105 (or 16% of 6%) were overturned incorrectly.

Overall 17/1735 (0.98%) were overturned incorrectly.

Again... I’m not talking above the overall error rate, I’m talking about the bit in bold, which is unacceptable.

How do we know the person that checked these and came up with the number that are wrong got the decision that the decision was wrong correct? After all many of the laws of the game state 'if, in the opinion of the referee...'

We don’t. Which is another reason VAR is crap, the fouls it attempts to make a decision on are very subjective.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:17:42 pm
Says you. If you demand perfection from it before it's used then I think that's foolish.

Not perfection no, but that % is far too high to even consider slowing our game down even slightly, imo.
this is another thing. football is hardly the non-stop cyclone of action everyone wants to pretend it is. there are so many stoppages that exist today it would hardly be noticed imo
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:33:51 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:37:10 pm
Tonight's match would have definitely been much more exciting if they'd stopped to check every goal, offside and the penalty decision IMO.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:39:06 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

:lol: Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:39:07 pm
Dave being a conservative traditionalist shocker :)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:40:09 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

:lol: Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:41:22 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

:lol: Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:42:07 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

:lol: Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.

They used the same arguments for gay marriage and abortion. Just sayin'. ;)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:42:34 pm
Tonight's match would have definitely been much more exciting if they'd stopped to check every goal, offside and the penalty decision IMO.
Agreed, a good and pure technological improvement would definitely worsen the game if it was misapplied in a heavy handed manner that no one is advocating for :thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:44:00 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

 [emoji38] Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.

It is. You just need a designated VAR ref that communicates with the on-pitch ref when called upon rather than the on-pitch ref taking ages looking at the videos. That's the main issue. If you had a designated VAR ref constantly looking at the replays it'd take seconds to solve something.


As it's now being used it's absolutely abhorrent and f***ing s*** up, though. Don't want VAR in its current form.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:44:39 pm
Tonight's match would have definitely been much more exciting if they'd stopped to check every goal, offside and the penalty decision IMO.
Agreed, a good and pure technological improvement would definitely worsen the game if it was misapplied in a heavy handed manner that no one is fundamentally capable of avoiding :thup:

Right on, brother.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:45:09 pm
Tonight's match would have definitely been much more exciting if they'd stopped to check every goal, offside and the penalty decision IMO.
Agreed, a good and pure technological improvement would definitely worsen the game if it was misapplied in a heavy handed manner that no one is advocating for :thup:

Dave's dangling the bait. It's been discussed ad nauseum on this forum that there are already f***ing tons of stoppages in a regular football game, many of them needless, so it's not like VAR is going to be disrupting some 90-min non-stop game of pingpong. People are just afraid of change, it seems. And that's fine. I just think it's the wrong position to hold. Once, and if, perfected, or fine-tuned, VAR in football can be an awesome addition. Like cricket, tennis, rugby and American football, we need to create a custom usage for it that works within the parameters of football, so it doesn't hinder the game we love, and instead enhances it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:45:39 pm
But then we still have a pointless VAR system that isn't necessary and hasn't been necessary since the games inception.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:46:07 pm
Tonight's match would have definitely been much more exciting if they'd stopped to check every goal, offside and the penalty decision IMO.
Agreed, a good and pure technological improvement would definitely worsen the game if it was misapplied in a heavy handed manner that no one is advocating for :thup:
:thup: You can't just bring something so radical in and expect it to work perfectly straight away
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Wullie on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:46:42 pm
But then we still have a pointless VAR system that isn't necessary and hasn't been necessary since the games inception.

I think the lack of VAR prior to the last two years is why football is so unpopular across the world.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:46:56 pm
if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:49:34 pm
I'm afraid of change when it's pointless like. VAR doesn't improve the sport. It doesn't make it any more entertaining, it just adds further pointless caveats and distances it even further from what you can play yourself on a Sunday.

Just let the ref do what referees have been doing for over a century and let us call them c***s when they f*** up. It's all good. Genuinely cannot see how any football fan would want this s**** implemented like.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:49:55 pm
if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit

I think it boils down to two groups: those that long for accurate, reality and data-based outcomes of football games, and those that are okay with a high error rate as long as the game doesn't change at all. I fall into the former category as I've spent far too long as a football fan depressed about what might have been had a particular call gone our way.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:51:00 pm
:lol: High error rate.

Aye, every game has so many match defining errors that it’s impossible to enjoy the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:52:30 pm
if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit

I think it boils down to two groups: those that long for accurate, reality and data-based outcomes of football games*, and those that are okay with a high error rate as long as the game doesn't change at all. I fall into the former category as I've spent far too long as a football fan depressed about what might have been had a particular call gone our way.

*in top flight leagues, because f*** everyone else playing the game in the literally thousands of other leagues, let's have our own rules :thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Wullie on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:53:26 pm
if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit

I think it boils down to two groups: those that long for accurate, reality and data-based outcomes of football games, and those that are okay with a high error rate as long as the game doesn't change at all. I fall into the former category as I've spent far too long as a football fan depressed about what might have been had a particular call gone our way.

I get the impression the schism is (generally, not exclusively) between people who experience football mainly in person and those who experience it mainly via television.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 10:54:57 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

 [emoji38] Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.

It is. You just need a designated VAR ref that communicates with the on-pitch ref when called upon rather than the on-pitch ref taking ages looking at the videos. That's the main issue. If you had a designated VAR ref constantly looking at the replays it'd take seconds to solve something.



This is what we've had in the trail in England and it has taken a lot longer than seconds.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:01:38 pm
Imagine being disappointed about losing VAR if your team is relegated. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:01:41 pm
if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit

I think it boils down to two groups: those that long for accurate, reality and data-based outcomes of football games, and those that are okay with a high error rate as long as the game doesn't change at all. I fall into the former category as I've spent far too long as a football fan depressed about what might have been had a particular call gone our way.

I get the impression the schism is (generally, not exclusively) between people who experience football mainly in person and those who experience it mainly via television.

Possibly, and this is a good point. I'm a foreigner so I've only experienced footie, and most sports, via the telly.

if you'd tolt the oldtimers of football's beginnings that one day a magic motion picture box could reduce the error of officiating to under 1%, their well lubricated monocles would have comically flown off their faces so hard they'd still be in orbit

I think it boils down to two groups: those that long for accurate, reality and data-based outcomes of football games*, and those that are okay with a high error rate as long as the game doesn't change at all. I fall into the former category as I've spent far too long as a football fan depressed about what might have been had a particular call gone our way.

*in top flight leagues, because f*** everyone else playing the game in the literally thousands of other leagues, let's have our own rules :thup:

This argument doesn't hold water for me because the top flight leagues are already different from thousands of other leagues. We already treat the summit of sports differently from their grassroot levels. This longing to keep the game the absolute same from Sunday leagues to the EPL seems to be unique to football fans, as I don't hear this from tennis, cricket, rugby, etc., sports where VAR has been implemented for years. It hasn't diminished enrollment into those sports, in fact those sports have only grown in popularity. Again, even though I disagree, I do understand where this argument is coming from.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:03:04 pm
I'm not even that actively hyped about getting in place as soon as possible or anything. I just remain unconvinced as to its destructive capabilities.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:07:48 pm
This argument doesn't hold water for me because the top flight leagues are already different from thousands of other leagues.

How? Light-up subs boards?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:14:45 pm
I'll give you goal-line technology, but I can just about accept that one given that it's undeniably 100% based upon fact and will never be anything but.

But aye, even that is fundamentally unfair to everyone else.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:30:17 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

 [emoji38] Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.

It is. You just need a designated VAR ref that communicates with the on-pitch ref when called upon rather than the on-pitch ref taking ages looking at the videos. That's the main issue. If you had a designated VAR ref constantly looking at the replays it'd take seconds to solve something.



This is what we've had in the trail in England and it has taken a lot longer than seconds.

The on-pitch ref always watches the replays in the matches I've seen.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Tuesday 24 April 2018, 11:57:45 pm
Basic statistics need to be taught more and at an earlier age in high school. Thomas is right, and F 1-0 F is wrong.

 [emoji38] Again, read what I put properly and you’ll see thomas and I agree on the stat I was discussing.

We’re discussing and disagree on the interpretation of the data though.

Fair enough, but I think your overall tone was unnecessarily aggressive when discussing a tech that's been used and nearly perfected across other sports. "VAR IS CRAP!" is an unnecessarily general statement that's nowhere near true.

It can be perfected in those sports, because they are suitable for it. Football isn’t.

It is. You just need a designated VAR ref that communicates with the on-pitch ref when called upon rather than the on-pitch ref taking ages looking at the videos. That's the main issue. If you had a designated VAR ref constantly looking at the replays it'd take seconds to solve something.



This is what we've had in the trail in England and it has taken a lot longer than seconds.

The on-pitch ref always

No watches the replays in the matches I've seen.

Just not been the case here.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 05:22:11 am
This argument doesn't hold water for me because the top flight leagues are already different from thousands of other leagues.

How? Light-up subs boards?

Erm, the sheer amount of f***ing money involved in every thing from having sports psychologists, data analysts and sprawling scouting systems that encapsulate the globe, things your pub team don't have access to. Television rights, global audiences, etc. When billions are at stake, and decisions impact a team's survival or relegation (i.e. potentially monetary survival in the long term) based on some numpty's wrong call at the ultimate moment, why anyone would oppose a more level playing field between the rich and poor teams *within* the top leagues is beyond me. And I feel like the anti-VAR people are amplifying the negatives without even giving an inch to the potential of positives that VAR holds, if and when done right. But to not even give it a chance due to some *ideological* stance is like holding onto this glorious present and past whilst ignoring the inherent issues in absolutely shambolic refereeing decisions that has led to people calling for VAR in the first place.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:31:51 am
None of those things are the rules.

Oh, and promotion up through the football pyramid is the single biggest hope a club can have of reaching those financial benefits on merit. But they wouldn't have access to the accuracy [sic] of VAR in crucial run-in or playoff matches because they're not already in the top flight, that's really fair.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:46:14 am
Well it is fair because the other teams they are competing with for promotion don’t have access to it either.

Do you also disagree with the use of 4th officials given they aren’t used in every league?



Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Nobody on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:14:08 am
Aye, I'm dead against VAR, but saying it's bad because it's not the same throughout football is a really weak argument IMO.
The fact that it's s****, unnecessary, takes too long, needlessly disrupts the flow of the game and, worst of all, from what I've seen it seems to favour attackers going to ground easily just because there has been "contact" are more than enough arguments for it to be scrapped ASAP.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 12:38:34 pm
Well it is fair because the other teams they are competing with for promotion don’t have access to it either.

Do you also disagree with the use of 4th officials given they aren’t used in every league?

What rules are actually different due to the presence of a 4th official though? It's the same as those numpties behind the goal, they barely even do anything. :lol:

I'm not saying this is my only issue with VAR btw, obviously. It's just a pretty fundamental one that people who only care about the top flight seem to dismiss too easily IMO. Football is massively popular because of how inclusive it is at all levels.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 01:01:44 pm
Well it is fair because the other teams they are competing with for promotion don’t have access to it either.

Do you also disagree with the use of 4th officials given they aren’t used in every league?

What rules are actually different due to the presence of a 4th official though? It's the same as those numpties behind the goal, they barely even do anything. :lol:

I'm not saying this is my only issue with VAR btw, obviously. It's just a pretty fundamental one that people who only care about the top flight seem to dismiss too easily IMO. Football is massively popular because of how inclusive it is at all levels.

What rules are different with a VAR? The VAR is still making the decision / advising on the 'game changing incident' against the same set of rules / laws?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 01:10:38 pm
They get to change a decision.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 01:18:44 pm
And existing rules become essentially redundant. Why bother raising your flag for a marginal offside? It'll be picked up by VAR if it was offside*, and it's surely better to let play continue than interrupt it. Because you can't go back.

*Well, if they can make their minds up on it anyway (teehee).

Anyway I've said all this before. I just disagree with it in every way.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: sixx on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 01:22:57 pm
For me, one of the biggest appeals of football is its universality. It's pretty much the only sport, just one of the generally few things, that the world can gather over and partake in on pretty much equal premises. Be it in Kinshasa, Singapore, Buenos Aires or Newcastle you can be rest assured that the game is played the same way with the same simple foundations available to pretty much everyone; pitch, ball, two goals. I'm probably over-sentimental but for me, things like VAR just feed the divide for pretty much the only thing the world can agree on. It's just so unnecessary, technical and bland. Feels like we have become so elitist, petulant and presumptuous after a couple of decades being spoiled by outrageously high-quality football and bonkers amount of money that now we demand to know and get everything, all the time. Don't even get me started on how it interrupts the flow of the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 01:36:03 pm
Aye, I'm dead against VAR, but saying it's bad because it's not the same throughout football is a really weak argument IMO.
The fact that it's s****, unnecessary, takes too long, needlessly disrupts the flow of the game and, worst of all, from what I've seen it seems to favour attackers going to ground easily just because there has been "contact" are more than enough arguments for it to be scrapped ASAP.

Good point. And if I'm correct that VAR is nothing more than an attempt at more advertising space, then sponsors will be paying their players per the number of advert opportunities they create.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 02:31:55 pm
And existing rules become essentially redundant. Why bother raising your flag for a marginal offside? It'll be picked up by VAR if it was offside*, and it's surely better to let play continue than interrupt it. Because you can't go back.

*Well, if they can make their minds up on it anyway (teehee).

Anyway I've said all this before. I just disagree with it in every way.
Aye. VAR completely changes the game like. It has to otherwise it would be redundant. I disagree it’s unfair on lower league teams though, they should be thankful their game isn’t being p*ssed about with :lol:

I’m notagainst using technology for certain things like. Goal line stuff is fine imo, off the ball stuff like assault/spitting I would like delt with during the game. Offsides ‘n that though? f*** off man.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Shay's Given Tim Flowers on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 02:50:38 pm
Hans responds to rumours of being a luddite.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 03:16:27 pm
I still believe that VAR could theoretically work without it having any impact on waiting for decisions and any impact on the entertainment of the match. My point about having another official with exactly the same powers as an assistant referee or fourth official, but watching a TV is still the simple, cost effective, minimum impact answer imo. In this scenario there's no referring to the official whatsoever, Referees referee as normal, the official only speaks to the referee if there's a clear and obvious mistake in the decision made in exactly the same way that the assistant referees or fourth official would if there was something they noticed that the referee hadn't.

I still believe that they should keep trying and keep experimenting because if they can get it right then even those against it will have no complaints - no one's going to reminisce about blatantly incorrect decisions if it also means that the game's flow is left untainted, but I'm not sure if they'll ever get to that point, mainly because even when it came in this season with (imo) very clear instructions about when it should and shouldn't be used, humans are stupid and that wasn't how it panned out at all - Refs, the VAR panels, and pundits all muddied the waters. Everything became 'clear and obvious' and the whole thing was a complete joke. Refs were asking for reviews when they shouldn't, the VAR panel were sticking their oar in when they shouldn't, and the description of when VAR should be used was altered, imo, to save face with the incorrect usage of it, the reliance upon it by refs, and the even more ludicrous decisions that came out of it.

The whole exercise was such a spectacular failure that it almost seemed like it was by design and that they'd made it an advert for never ever asking for it to be used in football ever again. In that respect it was a massive success.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 03:27:40 pm
by chance i've not happened to see a match where this has been used and haven't bothered to pay attention to it at all as a result, is it a total disaster then?  anything to read that outlines the issues/status?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:01:40 pm
The whole purist perspective is funny because the same purists seem to have forgotten or not paid attention to the plethora of changes to actual laws and rules of the game from country to country, from, yes, Kinshasa to Germany, even differing from competition to competition. Golden Goal rule, constant tinkering with the official off-side rule, the 6-second rule, etc. I wasn't aware all these had such a massive impact on me enjoying a pub league when these rules were being f***ed about with from country to country, league to league.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:02:59 pm
LOL:

http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/who-we-are/the-laws/2001-2006.html

And that's just like... 6 years.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:12:32 pm
But none of those very minor changes mean I have to sit in the stadium for 5 minutes watching the referee look at a TV screen for an unknown reason.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:14:25 pm
But none of those very minor changes mean I have to sit in the stadium for 5 minutes watching the referee look at a TV screen for an unknown reason.

I agree, but the golden goal was a big change, which was scrapped. As were some of the other minor changes which added time to a game, like needing to have a player stretchered off in a head collision, etc., (which I'm for, of course). What I'm saying is, football, and all sports, are literally games which are always evolving with time and circumstance.

As much as I hate Star Wars, I'm gonna quote from it: "Do not fight the winds of change, Anakin..." ;)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:19:00 pm
But none of those very minor changes mean I have to sit in the stadium for 5 minutes watching the referee look at a TV screen for an unknown reason.

I agree, but the golden goal was a big change, which was scrapped. As were some of the other minor changes which added time to a game, like needing to have a player stretchered off in a head collision, etc., (which I'm for, of course). What I'm saying is, football, and all sports, are literally games which are always evolving with time and circumstance.

As much as I hate Star Wars, I'm gonna quote from it: "Do not fight the winds of change, Anakin..." ;)

None of those changes listed have anywhere near the level of impact or shittery as VAR.

As I’ve said numerous times, the only way VAR would ever be acceptable to me is if it was as instant and clear as goalline technology. It never will be.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:24:53 pm
I know this has been mentioned before time and again, but it would really help to look at how VAR is implemented in other sports. The review system in cricket and tennis would actually be perfect for footie. Each team gets only 2 or 3 reviews per game, decided by the on-pitch captain from each side. So this would eliminate the fears of players going down too easy or waiting "5 minutes for an unknown reason." The reason will be clear, and it will only be used in the most egregious circumstances. And if you use up all your reviews on shitty decisions or cheating, well too bad, then you lose them. That's how it works in cricket / tennis. And then we go back to just going by the ref's decision. This way, the maximum number of stoppages can be 4, for example, over a 90 minute period. 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:30:45 pm
Again, that system would never work because teams will just use their challenges tactically. Perfect way to slow the game down when you’re hanging onto a 1-0 lead away at Man Utd with minutes remaining, save all 3 challenges and keep breaking the play up by challenging any old decision.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:32:30 pm
Again, that system would never work because teams will just use their challenges tactically. Perfect way to slow the game down when you’re hanging onto a 1-0 lead away at Man Utd with minutes remaining, save all 3 challenges and keep breaking the play up by challenging any old decision.

You mean like how Allardyce & Mourinho teams have been doing for the last 10 years? Teams already slow down games tactically when 1-0 up away from home. It's actually unbearable already.

We can go back and forth here forever, but we can just agree to disagree on this topic :)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:34:43 pm
But that would only work for certain decisions. We still have things like offsides that haven't been spotted. You cannot just have the captain stopping the game like he's at Wimbledon, pointing to the VAR umpire to have a look at the video. Find out it was onside and then resume play with a drop kick. That's something football really doesn't need.

Tennis and cricket are also stop start games without a clock.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:38:51 pm
Again, that system would never work because teams will just use their challenges tactically. Perfect way to slow the game down when you’re hanging onto a 1-0 lead away at Man Utd with minutes remaining, save all 3 challenges and keep breaking the play up by challenging any old decision.

You mean like how Allardyce & Mourinho teams have been doing for the last 10 years? Teams already slow down games tactically when 1-0 up away from home. It's actually unbearable already.

We can go back and forth here forever, but we can just agree to disagree on this topic :)

Well no :lol: It’s nothing like that at all.

There’s a difference from playing defensively to making the entire game stop while we watch the referee watch a TV screen. If I wanted to do that, I’d watch Gogglebox.

See Hans’ points above too.

But aye, more than happy to agree to disagree on this one.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:47:19 pm
As long as people are authoritatively stating as FACT their OPINION that it would slow the game to a crawl as every decision would be challenged, I'm going to state my opinion as fact that it would be used judiciously and wisely and be a benefit to the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:49:08 pm
As long as people are authoritatively stating as FACT their OPINION that it would slow the game to a crawl as every decision would be challenged, I'm going to state my opinion as fact that it would be used judiciously and wisely and be a benefit to the game.

Not sure anyone is stating their opinion as a fact.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:49:55 pm
There's absolutely no reason why having a review system, even a strict one where it's only ONE freaking referral per side, so two stoppages max per game, can't be quick and beneficial to the game. It will still do more to reduce human error without getting in most poeple's way.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:53:09 pm
Challenges or referrals would literally be the worst possible way this could be implemented
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:54:32 pm
So we're back to square one :lol: No compromise or solutions can be suggested because there will always be someone who'll come by saying why the solutions to problems raised are "the worst."
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 07:58:01 pm
So we're back to square one :lol: No compromise or solutions can be suggested because there will always be someone who'll come by saying why the solutions to problems raised are "the worst."
I'm not on any side here really, probably more for the pro VAR side if anything. Challenges would be absolutely s*** though. Just use it for offsides that lead to goals, penalties and red cards
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: The College Dropout on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:00:49 pm
The more I think about it. The less I want it used. Handballs sure. Offsides maybe. Fouls? Nah. 

A foul is too subjective.  Offsides happen very frequently. Unless there whole body is offside I would rather not use it for that. 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:03:18 pm
I KNA HOW TO FIX FOOTBALL!!!

Spoiler
[close]
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:06:22 pm
I also wonder how many titles, cups, relegations (and f***ing World Cups) will be decided while we trial this s**** out too. Considering the whole point of it is meant to make the game more fair, over the next few years we're going to see some pretty unfair s*** because of it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:11:11 pm
I also wonder how many titles, cups, relegations (and f***ing World Cups) will be decided while we trial this s**** out too. Considering the whole point of it is meant to make the game more fair, over the next few years we're going to see some pretty unfair s*** because of it.
It will be more fair than if its just left the way it is surely?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:12:28 pm
The whole purist perspective is funny because the same purists seem to have forgotten or not paid attention to the plethora of changes to actual laws and rules of the game from country to country, from, yes, Kinshasa to Germany, even differing from competition to competition. Golden Goal rule, constant tinkering with the official off-side rule, the 6-second rule, etc. I wasn't aware all these had such a massive impact on me enjoying a pub league when these rules were being f***ed about with from country to country, league to league.

Every single one of those rule changes you mention could be/were/are implemented at all levels. There is no reason they can't, unlike VAR.

You clearly don't give a s*** about any football that's not televised, that's up to you. I don't watch much of the lower leagues either. But I care about the fundamental basics of the football pyramid across our country (and by extension the world) and don't believe the top flight should have special status and effectively its own rules.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:15:13 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:16:01 pm
The whole purist perspective is funny because the same purists seem to have forgotten or not paid attention to the plethora of changes to actual laws and rules of the game from country to country, from, yes, Kinshasa to Germany, even differing from competition to competition. Golden Goal rule, constant tinkering with the official off-side rule, the 6-second rule, etc. I wasn't aware all these had such a massive impact on me enjoying a pub league when these rules were being f***ed about with from country to country, league to league.

Every single one of those rule changes you mention could be/were/are implemented at all levels. There is no reason they can't, unlike VAR.

You clearly don't give a s*** about any football that's not televised, that's up to you. I don't watch much of the lower leagues either. But I care about the fundamental basics of the football pyramid across our country (and by extension the world) and don't believe the top flight should have special status and effectively its own rules.

What exactly does this have to do with televised or not? Whether in stadia or at home, you're gonna have to sit through video replays if VAR is implemented. And no need think I "don't give a s***" when I've said time and again that the goal is to make football fairer as a game, not be some elitist TV-watching w***** as you seem to have assumed I am.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:17:25 pm
It has nothing to do with being a purist, VAR just doesn't improve the sport for me. If I think something actually improves the game then I'll probably be all for it.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:17:56 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Wullie on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:18:31 pm
The whole purist perspective is funny because the same purists seem to have forgotten or not paid attention to the plethora of changes to actual laws and rules of the game from country to country, from, yes, Kinshasa to Germany, even differing from competition to competition. Golden Goal rule, constant tinkering with the official off-side rule, the 6-second rule, etc. I wasn't aware all these had such a massive impact on me enjoying a pub league when these rules were being f***ed about with from country to country, league to league.

Every single one of those rule changes you mention could be/were/are implemented at all levels. There is no reason they can't, unlike VAR.

You clearly don't give a s*** about any football that's not televised, that's up to you. I don't watch much of the lower leagues either. But I care about the fundamental basics of the football pyramid across our country (and by extension the world) and don't believe the top flight should have special status and effectively its own rules.

What exactly does this have to do with televised or not? Whether in stadia or at home, you're gonna have to sit through video replays if VAR is implemented. And no need think I "don't give a s***" when I've said time and again that the goal is to make football fairer as a game, not be some elitist TV-watching w***** as you seem to have assumed I am.

Absolutely kidding yourself if you think clubs are going to be installing video screens, or even that replays will be shown in grounds at all.

It has everything to do with television.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:20:00 pm
The whole purist perspective is funny because the same purists seem to have forgotten or not paid attention to the plethora of changes to actual laws and rules of the game from country to country, from, yes, Kinshasa to Germany, even differing from competition to competition. Golden Goal rule, constant tinkering with the official off-side rule, the 6-second rule, etc. I wasn't aware all these had such a massive impact on me enjoying a pub league when these rules were being f***ed about with from country to country, league to league.

Every single one of those rule changes you mention could be/were/are implemented at all levels. There is no reason they can't, unlike VAR.

You clearly don't give a s*** about any football that's not televised, that's up to you. I don't watch much of the lower leagues either. But I care about the fundamental basics of the football pyramid across our country (and by extension the world) and don't believe the top flight should have special status and effectively its own rules.

What exactly does this have to do with televised or not? Whether in stadia or at home, you're gonna have to sit through video replays if VAR is implemented. And no need think I "don't give a s***" when I've said time and again that the goal is to make football fairer as a game, not be some elitist TV-watching w***** as you seem to have assumed I am.

Absolutely kidding yourself if you think clubs are going to be installing video screens, or even that replays will be shown in grounds at all.

That's something I've assumed would happen. If it doesn't, as part of VAR, then yeah, the in-person watching experience is going to differ from telly. That's an interesting difference I hadn't thought about, as I'd assumed they would be installing screens.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:21:50 pm
Not sure where we could position a screen at SJP where everyone could see it, for example.

I’d imagine Man Utd may have similar difficulties.

You’d not be able to see it from the back of the away end at Liverpool or Chelsea too, just off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:22:34 pm
Fair points. Does change the way I imagined VAR being rolled out.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:23:48 pm
Make football as a game fairer by implementing a convoluted system of correcting mistakes (righto) but only for the 0.3% of English football league clubs that already have the most money by a million miles. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:24:52 pm
Clearly the conservative rhetoric in this thread is taking on toxic levels when it comes to tone :lol:

Calm down, for f***'s sake.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:25:41 pm
Make football as a game fairer by implementing a convoluted system of correcting mistakes (righto) but only for the 0.3% of English football league clubs that already have the most money by a million miles. :lol:
Is there goalline technology in the lower leagues?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:26:02 pm
I'm fine. :laugh:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:26:26 pm
I'm fine. :laugh:

XOXO
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:26:27 pm
Make football as a game fairer by implementing a convoluted system of correcting mistakes (righto) but only for the 0.3% of English football league clubs that already have the most money by a million miles. :lol:
Is there goalline technology in the lower leagues?

Nope. Already covered that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:27:09 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:27:51 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.

I can definitely see it kicking off if VAR f***s up in a major way at the World Cup :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:36:34 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.
Not really sure why you think that. I could see teams feeling aggrieved by soft but correct decisions being made alright
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:37:02 pm
Make football as a game fairer by implementing a convoluted system of correcting mistakes (righto) but only for the 0.3% of English football league clubs that already have the most money by a million miles. :lol:
Is there goalline technology in the lower leagues?

Nope. Already covered that.
Do you disagree with it then?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:45:36 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.
Not really sure why you think that. I could see teams feeling aggrieved by soft but correct decisions being made alright
Why I feel what? That there will be atleast one mistake that will cause a team to be knocked out?

If so I think it's pretty much a given, but we'll see.

I'm actually going to hoy a random figure out and say I'll drink my own p*ss if less than 4 teams are knocked out of the competition due to a negative consequence of VAR. Whether it be missing something for one side yet catching something for the opposition, or reversing a debatable decision that the ref had made only for the decision to still be debatable because - by the letter of the law - it's down to the referees interpretation. We now have about 10 referees watching the game each with their own interpretation of what is happening.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:49:00 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.
Not really sure why you think that. I could see teams feeling aggrieved by soft but correct decisions being made alright
Why I feel what? That there will be atleast one mistake that will cause a team to be knocked out?

If so I think it's pretty much a given, but we'll see.

I'm actually going to hoy a random figure out and say I'll drink my own p*ss if less than 4 teams are knocked out of the competition due to a negative consequence of VAR. Whether it be missing something for one side yet catching something for the opposition, or reversing a debatable decision that the ref had made only for the decision to still be debatable because - by the letter of the law - it's down to the referees interpretation. We now have about 10 referees watching the game each with their own interpretation of what is happening.

Although I completely agree with you, need to quote that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:51:33 pm
But the way it is is inherently 'flawed' but that's how the game has been for decades. VAR is meant to make the game 'bulletproof', so when they f*** up and lose someone the World Cup it's going to feel far, far worse than just a referee who missed something.

Losing a world cup because FIFA randomly decided to trial some s**** system?
Much lower chance of losing due to VAR than losing due to incompetent reffing though
Maybe, but I reckon the odds will be quite low for at least one team being knocked out of the competition directly due to a negative consequence of VAR. Probably multiple.
Not really sure why you think that. I could see teams feeling aggrieved by soft but correct decisions being made alright
Why I feel what? That there will be atleast one mistake that will cause a team to be knocked out?

If so I think it's pretty much a given, but we'll see.

I'm actually going to hoy a random figure out and say I'll drink my own p*ss if less than 4 teams are knocked out of the competition due to a negative consequence of VAR. Whether it be missing something for one side yet catching something for the opposition, or reversing a debatable decision that the ref had made only for the decision to still be debatable because - by the letter of the law - it's down to the referees interpretation. We now have about 10 referees watching the game each with their own interpretation of what is happening.
:lol: I'll hold you to that
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:53:36 pm
Does negative consequence include correct decisions though? [emoji38] I don't want you wangling your way out of it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:55:34 pm
Does negative consequence include correct decisions though? [emoji38] I don't want you wangling your way out of it.
If it was anyone but Hans I'd worry about this too but he's definitely done worse so it should be fine :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:55:36 pm
No one in forum history has drank their p*ss on a lost wager. Meaningless.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:58:24 pm
No one in forum history has drank their p*ss on a lost wager. Meaningless.
The conservative anti-p*ss-drinking element here is worrying. Just because it wasn't done at all levels of the forum pyramid doesn't mean the creme de la creme can't benefit from these advances in wager making technology.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 08:59:23 pm
Does negative consequence include correct decisions though? [emoji38] I don't want you wangling your way out of it.
Nah correct decisions don't count.

I mean anything where after the game we can all universally agree that VAR either completely f***ed up (ie if they miss Mitrovic flying elbowing Tim Cahill off the ball - yet in the same game award a penalty to Serbia) or if they overrule a contentious decision and replace it with another contentious decision (like a handball in the box where 50% of the board says it's a pen and the other 50% say it's not).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:00:48 pm
I'm not going to p*ss into a pint glass and drink it like, but I'd definitely p*ss on my hand a little bit and lick it off when I'm in the bog.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:01:20 pm
I'm not going to p*ss into a pint glass and drink it like, but I'd definitely p*ss on my hand a little bit and lick it off when I'm in the bog.


f***ing hell :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:01:50 pm
This thread now has everything.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Beren on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:03:21 pm
I'm not going to p*ss into a pint glass and drink it like, but I'd definitely p*ss on my hand a little bit and lick it off when I'm in the bog.

Let's meet in the middle, a shot from a deodorant lid?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:05:32 pm
Average sized shot drank through the eye.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:05:55 pm
I'm not going to p*ss into a pint glass and drink it like, but I'd definitely p*ss on my hand a little bit and lick it off when I'm in the bog.
:lol: Weird scenario to think of
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:06:03 pm
I'm not drinking p*ss through my eyes like.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:09:37 pm
I'm not drinking p*ss through my eyes like.
[emoji38]

The best thing about this is it was only you that suggested doing that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:11:30 pm
:lol: I'm just putting it out there that it isn't happening like before I get quoted.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:21:33 pm
Make football as a game fairer by implementing a convoluted system of correcting mistakes (righto) but only for the 0.3% of English football league clubs that already have the most money by a million miles. :lol:
Is there goalline technology in the lower leagues?

Nope. Already covered that.
Do you disagree with it then?

I'll give you goal-line technology, but I can just about accept that one given that it's undeniably 100% based upon fact and will never be anything but.

But aye, even that is fundamentally unfair to everyone else.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: TaylorJ_01 on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 09:23:56 pm
VAR is s****, long live the humble referee
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: thomas on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:12:05 pm
Think of it as another, better form of referee. The expectation is already there that as you climb the league pyramid the quality of officiating improves. This is just the next step of improvement. Boom. Cognitive dissonance settled.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:27:30 pm
When I grew up, a lot of times we played football we didn't even have a referee. Rules of the game remain the same, but as the game gets more professional I'd expect the refereeing to get more professional. If everything about the game was "fair" throughout all levels, that would mean the best refs should also ref kid games at schools. They don't. Because they're professionals and only ref professional games. These refs however would certainly be better at refereeing than some kids dad. The game of football has never all equal from the playground to Camp Nou, but the rules still remain the same throughout all levels even with VAR used at the highest.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: neesy111 on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:51:04 pm
When I grew up, a lot of times we played football we didn't even have a referee. Rules of the game remain the same, but as the game gets more professional I'd expect the refereeing to get more professional. If everything about the game was "fair" throughout all levels, that would mean the best refs should also ref kid games at schools. They don't. Because they're professionals and only ref professional games. These refs however would certainly be better at refereeing than some kids dad. The game of football has never all equal from the playground to Camp Nou, but the rules still remain the same throughout all levels even with VAR used at the highest.

So it's how the rules are enforced and who by?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:52:38 pm
When I grew up, a lot of times we played football we didn't even have a referee. Rules of the game remain the same, but as the game gets more professional I'd expect the refereeing to get more professional. If everything about the game was "fair" throughout all levels, that would mean the best refs should also ref kid games at schools. They don't. Because they're professionals and only ref professional games. These refs however would certainly be better at refereeing than some kids dad. The game of football has never all equal from the playground to Camp Nou, but the rules still remain the same throughout all levels even with VAR used at the highest.

So it's how the rules are enforced and who by?

It's an argument against people saying adding VAR at the top level changes the sport since "it's the same on all levels of the game". Which it really isn't. The rules are the same throughout, how they're applied is vastly different - from no ref on the playground to extra refs in certain competitions. VAR being used to enforce rules at the highest level doesn't change football as a game being the same for everyone no matter where you play it (if you follow the rules of the game), you just get better enforcing of the rules the more professional you get.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:55:16 pm
Do all sunday league games have linesmen for offsides?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Inferior Acuña on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 10:58:57 pm
I think it's an abomination like. I dread the day I celebrate a Newcastle goal then have it taken away, and after that, the instantaneous celebrating a goal will never be the same again because you know it might not count. Goals can be ruled offside but it takes a split second to look at the linesman/ref (as I always do). I'm also not inherently against technology - goal-line is fine, it's instantaneous, but VAR disrupts one of the main things that makes football great.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 25 April 2018, 11:12:17 pm
I think it's an abomination like. I dread the day I celebrate a Newcastle goal then have it taken away, and after that, the instantaneous celebrating a goal will never be the same again because you know it might not count. Goals can be ruled offside but it takes a split second to look at the linesman/ref (as I always do). I'm also not inherently against technology - goal-line is fine, it's instantaneous, but VAR disrupts one of the main things that makes football great.
Its no celebrating a goal from a penalty that turns into a free kick for the opposition for no apparent reason like
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 26 April 2018, 09:47:04 am
I think it's an abomination like. I dread the day I celebrate a Newcastle goal then have it taken away, and after that, the instantaneous celebrating a goal will never be the same again because you know it might not count. Goals can be ruled offside but it takes a split second to look at the linesman/ref (as I always do). I'm also not inherently against technology - goal-line is fine, it's instantaneous, but VAR disrupts one of the main things that makes football great.

:thup: Spot on. Another reason (added to the many in this thread already) why VAR should never come in.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 3 May 2018, 06:40:52 pm
Roma manager lost his s*** in the post match conference about VAR not already being implemented in the Champions League saying a s*** ref cost them the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Figures 1-0 Football on Thursday 3 May 2018, 06:48:49 pm
Roma manager lost his s*** in the post match conference about VAR not already being implemented in the Champions League saying a s*** ref cost them the game.

Liverpool would have had 2 penalties in the first half though, so they’d have been 4-1 down and out.

Not having VAR actually made it more of an interesting spectacle, with no pathetic stoppages. There would have been about 6 VAR stoppages last night, which would have been grim and interrupted an interesting tie.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Raconteur on Sunday 6 May 2018, 12:45:10 am
VAR failure decides the A-League Grand Final, after a pretty miserable first season of implementation.

From "The Age", Melbourne, Australia:

Quote
In a season of VAR blunders, this was the lowest of lows

2018 A-League grand final: Melbourne Victory 1, Newcastle Jets 0

Nothing short of a real villain would be enough to deny Newcastle Jets the fairytale finale in front of their own fans on Saturday night. For once, it wasn’t Besart Berisha, the Albanian striker failed to shine for the first time in a decider.

The Novocastrians couldn’t point their finger at one of the regular foes in Kevin Muscat either. The ever-dangerous Leroy George can’t put his hand up for the honour and in truth, nor could the outstanding Victory goalkeeper Lawrence Thomas.

Instead, the most hated man on the Hunter will be able to walk into any pub in Newcastle today completely oblivious to the 530,000 grieving locals. The Video Assistant Referee ruined the dream of Newcastle coming from wooden-spooners last year to winning their first-ever home grand final, ignoring a clear offside to award Victory the only goal of the match.

Replays showed James Donachie was offside as he set up Kosta Barbarouses’ goal for Victory's 1-0 win.

Confirmed by the logo of its standalone sponsor, the VAR reviewed it, yet did nothing. Of all the VAR controversies that have plagued a largely stale A-League season, this was the worst.

There was no point of conjecture, nothing went unsighted by cameras instead a slight yet decisive error from the technology brought in to end the blunders decided the champions by an error of its own.

On the biggest occasion, the calls for the VAR’s removal grew to their loudest. Had the 29,410 mostly home supporters seen the stills on the broadcaster, those calls would have been deafening and justifiably so.

Like so many others this season, their night was ruined by the VAR and every football supporter had the right to join in their chorus of moans after a year of dejecting viewing. The VAR has regularly stopped play for several minutes on end, sometimes to no conclusion. On-field referees have become more timid. Players don’t instinctively celebrate goals as they sit and await confirmation from the VAR and at the season’s crescendo, we learnt it was all for nothing. It couldn't even address the most simple justification for its inclusion - offside goals - and peak audiences watched its spectacular failure.

Had a linesman or a referee made the error then fair game, they’re only human. The margins are fine in finals and the margin for error all-but non existent now with the VAR. That it went so horribly wrong for such a basic decision left many asking why we have it.

In truth, Newcastle weren’t just the victims of one bad decision, rather the rapid commercialisation of the beautiful game and organisations desperate to find anything beyond football to make it marketable.

That’s not just Football Federation Australia, who became the first top-tier league to introduce it in hope of appeasing broadcasters, but FIFA too.

The VAR will be at the World Cup next month and there will be a whole nation that shares Newcastle’s anguish, perhaps a few. All the while, the English Premier League and UEFA will feel vindicated in their decision to take no part in the farce.


With vid and stills (may be geoblocked): https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/in-a-season-of-var-blunders-this-was-the-lowest-of-lows-20180505-p4zdls.html
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Wullie on Sunday 6 May 2018, 12:54:11 am
Seen a few important incidents lately that VAR would have played no part in (under the current guidelines) - the EL semi final between Salzburg and Marseille was decided after Marseille turned in a corner that was an obvious goal kick, and then Southampton got screwed today by Redmond being pulled up for a non-existent foul, which could cost them their PL status. I don't like the attitude that VAR is just used for the "big decisions" - in football, every decision is a big decision because it's a fluid game, unlike most other sports which use technology. If you really want VAR to make decision making in football as close to perfect as possible, and eliminate the threat of massive games being decided on incorrect calls, then you can't just pick and choose which decisions fall under its remit imo.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: loki679 on Sunday 6 May 2018, 03:14:14 am
VAR failure decides the A-League Grand Final, after a pretty miserable first season of implementation.

From "The Age", Melbourne, Australia:

Quote
In a season of VAR blunders, this was the lowest of lows

2018 A-League grand final: Melbourne Victory 1, Newcastle Jets 0

Nothing short of a real villain would be enough to deny Newcastle Jets the fairytale finale in front of their own fans on Saturday night. For once, it wasn’t Besart Berisha, the Albanian striker failed to shine for the first time in a decider.

The Novocastrians couldn’t point their finger at one of the regular foes in Kevin Muscat either. The ever-dangerous Leroy George can’t put his hand up for the honour and in truth, nor could the outstanding Victory goalkeeper Lawrence Thomas.

Instead, the most hated man on the Hunter will be able to walk into any pub in Newcastle today completely oblivious to the 530,000 grieving locals. The Video Assistant Referee ruined the dream of Newcastle coming from wooden-spooners last year to winning their first-ever home grand final, ignoring a clear offside to award Victory the only goal of the match.

Replays showed James Donachie was offside as he set up Kosta Barbarouses’ goal for Victory's 1-0 win.

Confirmed by the logo of its standalone sponsor, the VAR reviewed it, yet did nothing. Of all the VAR controversies that have plagued a largely stale A-League season, this was the worst.

There was no point of conjecture, nothing went unsighted by cameras instead a slight yet decisive error from the technology brought in to end the blunders decided the champions by an error of its own.

On the biggest occasion, the calls for the VAR’s removal grew to their loudest. Had the 29,410 mostly home supporters seen the stills on the broadcaster, those calls would have been deafening and justifiably so.

Like so many others this season, their night was ruined by the VAR and every football supporter had the right to join in their chorus of moans after a year of dejecting viewing. The VAR has regularly stopped play for several minutes on end, sometimes to no conclusion. On-field referees have become more timid. Players don’t instinctively celebrate goals as they sit and await confirmation from the VAR and at the season’s crescendo, we learnt it was all for nothing. It couldn't even address the most simple justification for its inclusion - offside goals - and peak audiences watched its spectacular failure.

Had a linesman or a referee made the error then fair game, they’re only human. The margins are fine in finals and the margin for error all-but non existent now with the VAR. That it went so horribly wrong for such a basic decision left many asking why we have it.

In truth, Newcastle weren’t just the victims of one bad decision, rather the rapid commercialisation of the beautiful game and organisations desperate to find anything beyond football to make it marketable.

That’s not just Football Federation Australia, who became the first top-tier league to introduce it in hope of appeasing broadcasters, but FIFA too.

The VAR will be at the World Cup next month and there will be a whole nation that shares Newcastle’s anguish, perhaps a few. All the while, the English Premier League and UEFA will feel vindicated in their decision to take no part in the farce.


With vid and stills (may be geoblocked): https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/in-a-season-of-var-blunders-this-was-the-lowest-of-lows-20180505-p4zdls.html


Newcastle get f***ed over. Least it's not just us I suppose.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Dave on Sunday 6 May 2018, 11:30:52 pm
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: duo on Sunday 6 May 2018, 11:48:58 pm
Goal line technology gets  O0 because it's black and white - it's either over the line or not - Ref knows in seconds - happy days.

VAR you can watch a replay a hundred times and it's still not conclusive - it's still an 'opinion' at the end of the day.  I don't get who is pushing for VAR, the clubs, FA, FIFA - but I pray it never comes.  I think La Liga are getting it next season - I hope it totally tanks and we never hear of it again.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Infinitely Content on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:19:12 pm
Can't come soon enough - in all comps. We can't blame refereeing decisions entirely of course, but we've been on the wrong end of some dreadful decisions already so early into the season, what definitely seems like more than others, too.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: CPL on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:21:15 pm
What would have happened if there was VAR at the end? Would their goal get chalked off and we get a penatly??
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:21:27 pm
Can't come soon enough - in all comps. We can't blame refereeing decisions entirely of course, but we've been on the wrong end of some dreadful decisions already so early into the season, what definitely seems like more than others, too.

The one bit of technology that has come into play even resulted in a goal against us of course. :lol: Without it, that first Spurs goal would have been tough to call.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:21:51 pm
What would have happened if there was VAR at the end? Would their goal get chalked off and we get a penatly??

Yes.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:32:46 pm
What would have happened if there was VAR at the end? Would their goal get chalked off and we get a penatly??

Yes.
No. VAR is still ruled by an incompetent referee in a room somewhere who will always back up the match referee. In the World Cup it worked because they were different officials from different countries. Here in the U.K. and specifically with referee’s etc there is a culture of backing up your colleagues to the end. The former referee’s they bring out on SkySports and Talksport always back up the match official even when they were clearly in the wrong. When it comes to a top 6 club it becomes a harder nit to crack because every football fan knows the top 6 are given decisions their way despite everything.
The referee’s will always protect themselves and protect the top 6 clubs. VAR will change nothing in England, only a total overhaul of how to train referee’s will change anything. If I was in charge of the referee association I’d be tempted to tell most of the ‘professional’ referee’s to jog on (all the Premier League ones in anyway) and replace them with foreign referee’s until we can train a new generation of them.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Greg on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:34:52 pm
:lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kasper on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:37:15 pm
Never disappoints that lad.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:40:40 pm
We all know their s*** and we all know they are bent to f***.
Why defend them? Why let them keep doing what they are doing?
There is always an excuse for them, the main one at the minute being the game is too fast.
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?
Sick of people defending them and saying they need help. They can help themselves first, they arn’t fit for purpose.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Decky on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:42:46 pm
How can they back up their fellow referees when the mistake is so blatant and they're literally watching it over and over again from every angle? It would border on match fixing.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:44:42 pm
How can they back up their fellow referees when the mistake is so blatant and they're literally watching it over and over again from every angle? It would border on match fixing.
You not seen them do it on TV before? VAR is going to change f*** all. All they will do is try an implement a rule an interpretation to the rule. Even today’s foul, all the referee would say is that the keeper had an honest intent to go for the ball. f*** all will change.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:46:29 pm
How can they back up their fellow referees when the mistake is so blatant and they're literally watching it over and over again from every angle? It would border on match fixing.
You not seen them do it on TV before? VAR is going to change f*** all. All they will do is try an implement a rule an interpretation to the rule. Even today’s foul, all the referee would say is that the keeper had an honest intent to go for the ball. f*** all will change.
Honest intent to go for the ball doesn’t mean it isn’t a foul
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kasper on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:46:34 pm
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:48:10 pm
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.



That’s part of football. Happens every game.

Refereeing decisions like that have no part.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kasper on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:50:17 pm
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.



That’s part of football. Happens every game.

Refereeing decisions like that have no part.

They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: ManDoon on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:51:22 pm
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kasper on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:54:23 pm
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:55:06 pm
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.



That’s part of football. Happens every game.

Refereeing decisions like that have no part.

They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different.

The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kasper on Wednesday 29 August 2018, 10:59:35 pm
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.



That’s part of football. Happens every game.

Refereeing decisions like that have no part.

They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different.

The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty.

Yes and he made a mistake, that happens and has always happened. If you want to take human error out of it completely then you need VAR.

I'm not sure what your point is. I was answering to Stifler who said VAR wont change anything and referees make mistakes just because they are horribly trained or something.



Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: ohmelads on Thursday 30 August 2018, 01:26:57 am
If the game is too fast then how come a player can still make a tackle, a player can make a pass, a goalkeeper can still make a save, fans can react and make an appeal to the referee, yet the referee can’t see what the f*** went on?

And the players never miss a tackle, never misplace a pass, never fail to make a save, fans never see it incorrectly...

Great comparison.



That’s part of football. Happens every game.

Refereeing decisions like that have no part.

They have a part. Atleast in the world we live and have lived so far. If you want every decision to be 100% correct the whole game of football will be something completely different.

The referee’s job isn’t to have a bearing on the outcome of a match. It’s to call what happens between the two teams. You can have all the misplaced passes, poor shots, bad quality football you like, the referee had a fairly simple call there to give a penalty.

Yes and he made a mistake, that happens and has always happened. If you want to take human error out of it completely then you need VAR.

I'm not sure what your point is. I was answering to Stifler who said VAR wont change anything and referees make mistakes just because they are horribly trained or something.

VAR won't take human error out of it, as we saw with the world cup and particularly the final. It's just another human ref making decisions but with a video. It might reduce the error frequency though and catch a few of the most shocking decisions.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Pip on Thursday 30 August 2018, 04:16:13 am
The WC was infinitely more enjoyable seeing correct decisions being made. I thought it was one of the best WC in a long time. Yes, there were a few 50/50 calls but the refs can be trained to judge these things better. Without VAR they cannot be trained to see and judge handballs like what happened in the WC final because it happens too fast for them to see it. With video the judgment can be refined over time, much like the NBA and MLB continues to refine its judgment of what occurs on the field/court. Rules can change, interpretations can change, but with video we can reduce the variation of judgment, which is more important.

The handball in the WC final can be used as an example of a correct decision or a wrong decision, and refs can be trained on that, and then they will use it as precedent in the future. If people don't like the interpretation then the rules can be changed.

Hopefully the dinosaurs get outvoted and we get VAR in the PL next season.

It's not only about reducing error frequency but reducing variation in judgment. Today one ref's judgment of what is a handball and another's is different because they see the game at different speeds and different views. With video, they can see the game at the same speed and be trained on the same footage to judge what is and isn't a handball. Over time this will reduce variation in judgment and will lead to more enjoyment because the focus will be on the action on the pitch.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: ManDoon on Thursday 30 August 2018, 10:38:23 am
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.

These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who,  the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made.  They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 30 August 2018, 10:48:11 am
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.

These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who,  the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made.  They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty.

Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are c***s and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Village Idiot on Thursday 30 August 2018, 03:29:36 pm
So far so good with VAR in La Liga. We've had quite a few key decisions called correctly thanks to VAR, and it makes the game just much more enjoyable knowing that.

It's still far from perfect. Still believe we need a system like the NFL where teams can also formally ask for a limited number of reviews, instead of just the ref.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 30 August 2018, 03:47:14 pm
I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Thursday 30 August 2018, 05:23:19 pm
I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible?
Definitely. It won’t be used often enough for challenges to be needed either
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: triggs on Thursday 30 August 2018, 05:24:26 pm
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.

These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who,  the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made.  They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty.

Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are c***s and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams.
Think that’s a bit mean spirited really. Its not like strikers are pulled in after a game and asked how they missed a sitter
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 30 August 2018, 05:24:49 pm
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.

These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who,  the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made.  They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty.

Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are c***s and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams.
Think that’s a bit mean spirited really. Its not like strikers are pulled in after a game and asked how they missed a sitter

They do that over here. Feel like post-match interviews with players and staff are very common, only a natural extension that they show incidents to ask them for their reaction to them, and see no reason for that to not be extended to referees as they are just as much part of the match as the players/staff.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Village Idiot on Thursday 30 August 2018, 06:01:38 pm
I don't really believe in team reviews, surely the point should be to get as many decisions right as possible?

Well, the things that have been still called incorrectly are usually because the referee chose not to review them. I think a limited appeal system might help here. Then there's also plays that are so close/subjective to call that are always going to be controversial.

But so far I'm really happy with VAR in La Liga, will see how it works throughout a long competition (i.e. if defenders have to adjust since we're having more penalties being called).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Infinitely Content on Thursday 30 August 2018, 07:46:01 pm
The WC was infinitely more enjoyable seeing correct decisions being made.

100% this.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: ManDoon on Thursday 30 August 2018, 07:48:39 pm
They should have to face accounatbiltiy though, explain the decisions at the end of a match. Everyone else in football does. They aren't doing the job for free

For what? If they make an obvious mistake do they need to come out and say it? Does Kenedy have to come out and explain why he took a horrible penalty? He knows it and everyone else knows it.

Just because they don't explain stuff for the media doesnt mean the referees dont get feedback and talk about what happened.

These things aren't the same. And Kenedy has to face the media scrutiny and questions constantly. Kenedy missing a penalty isn't a decision on his part. A referee looks at an incident and makes a decision. They get feedback from who,  the referees panel, great. There is no reason why they can't explain decisions that are made.  They get paid well enough and its fair to assess what they've done wrong and right. Whats wrong with a quick explanation of a decision, for clarity? As it is nobody knows why he didn't give the penalty.

Refs here (Norway) sometimes get questioned after the game and are showed incidents on video being asked if they made the right decision or not with the benefit of hindsight. A few are c***s and refuse to admit fault, whilst a few has apologies to teams.
Think that’s a bit mean spirited really. Its not like strikers are pulled in after a game and asked how they missed a sitter

Yes but missing a shot isn't a decision of right and wrong. It's not the same, and managers are instantly pulled in front of the cameras to explain mistakes they have made that are out of their control a lot of the time
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Hanshithispantz on Thursday 30 August 2018, 07:56:17 pm
I think most people would be a little bit easier on referees if they actually came out and gave their point of view after games like - explaining why they made key decisions they way they did and admitting where they've made mistakes and the reasons why. It's not like it's punishing them or anything, we know they're human and we know they'll make mistakes.

Obviously people will still rage like, and some decisions will still be 'unforgivable', but it would potentially let fans understand the referees role more instead of being slightly anonymous daft c***s who f*** us up every week.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Kanji on Thursday 30 August 2018, 08:14:40 pm
insane to me that VAR is available for the cup, but only at PL stadiums. what a f***ing rubbish system,.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: wormy on Thursday 30 August 2018, 09:41:19 pm
I think most people would be a little bit easier on referees if they actually came out and gave their point of view after games like - explaining why they made key decisions they way they did and admitting where they've made mistakes and the reasons why. It's not like it's punishing them or anything, we know they're human and we know they'll make mistakes.

Obviously people will still rage like, and some decisions will still be 'unforgivable', but it would potentially let fans understand the referees role more instead of being slightly anonymous daft c***s who f*** us up every week.

This is it. You can't compare players and managers mistakes because they do get vilified and have no hiding place. There's a whole campaign to give referees respect FFS. Whilst I appreciate the sentiment of that, it's a joke that they're allowed to make such bullshit decisions then go and hide with no repercussions apart from a couple of lines in a news article. Kenedy got a whole article dedicated to his disappointing performance against Cardiff, didn't he? Exactly how often is a whole article dedicated to one referee's performance in a national circulation?

I get your sentiment on referees being able to help themselves BTW Stifleaay. But to write off VAR as a result is insane. :lol: Anything to help there be more accountability and a chance to overturn a bullshit decision is okay in my book. Mental that you'd disregard VAR because they'll sometimes let an already bullshit decision stand.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Village Idiot on Monday 3 September 2018, 11:32:00 am
Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there.

It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: ohmelads on Monday 3 September 2018, 03:05:02 pm
Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there.

It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though!

That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately.

With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Village Idiot on Monday 3 September 2018, 05:37:18 pm
Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there.

It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though!

That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately.

With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse.
You have a point regarding abusing challenges, I guess we could draw on yanks' experience with video refs on that regard.

But overall, the occasional stoppage for VAR is a price I am willing to pay given how much we gain. Far fewer games decided by badly called penalties, offsides, cards, etc... It's so much more satisfying.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) will not be used in the PL next season
Post by: Pata on Monday 3 September 2018, 05:40:26 pm
Another week of la liga, another week of almost zero ref drama. Really liking this. The only issue was the red card in the Sevilla derby but that was a subjective decision. VAR can't really help there.

It's still weird to see players celebrating two minutes after scoring because the ref wanted to check VAR, though!

That's the biggest thing it takes away from the game, unfortunately.

With regards to teams having X amount of appeals, could this not be abused to give a team a breather when they're on the ropes? Say we're winning 1-0 and the opposition are all over us in the dying minutes but we have two appeals left. Could we not just appeal any two decisions to force a stoppage and allow us to regroup? It seems open to abuse.

Should still have strict rules about what can be appealed. Team on the ropes would rarely have anything that they could appeal if it was restricted to for example penalties and red cards.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Colo's Short and Curlies on Monday 3 September 2018, 08:35:34 pm
The speed of getting to a decision should improve in a couple of years as well, understandable that they are taking a bit of time during its infancy to make sure the decision is as uncontestable as possible
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 11:29:56 am
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 11:30:59 am
Can't see how that's fair like. The rules should be the same for everyone.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Infinitely Content on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 11:34:30 am
Can't see how that's fair like. The rules should be the same for everyone.

Interpretation of rules seem to change from game to game, and from ref to ref anyway, so I don't think it particularly matters that VAR will be used in some games and not others. If anything it will help to show how glaringly necessary it is, and how the games it will be used in will be more enjoyable knowing more correct decisions are being made.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: SteV on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 11:37:52 am
Let's hope they make a better fist of it than the absolute shambles that took place in the FA Cup last season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Paully on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 11:52:47 am
Can't see how that's fair like. The rules should be the same for everyone.

Yep - bollocks that - it has to be the same for every match in the competition - I said the same last week about it being used only for Premier League ground-held League Cups ties - s****!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Dave on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 12:20:49 pm
Unless they use it for every match one weekend, but even then the fixture list will obviously mean it's inherently different for each club.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 5 September 2018, 05:36:00 pm
Its not going to be used to affect actual decisions during this trial. They’re just doing it to get used to the logistics of monitoring all the 3pm games in the same place in preparation for next season
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Raconteur on Sunday 21 October 2018, 10:09:22 pm
Australia had VAR last season, and it was woeful - in the news almost weekly because of some bad call or another.

First week of the new season, and an outrageous decision is made. Enjoy Mark Bosnich ranting about how appalling Australia is doing VAR (coked up, judging by his near-hysteria):

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/video/1348902467958/bosnich-launches-half-time-var-tirade?playlist=

(Link includes footage of the penalty. Just, wow).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: 54 on Thursday 15 November 2018, 02:51:10 pm
Officially going to be introduced from next season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Ketsbaia on Thursday 15 November 2018, 02:55:59 pm
Damn. Stopping the game for 5 minutes is such a momentum-killer. What a buzzkill.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Bimpy474 on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:12:27 pm
Unless they use it for every match one weekend, but even then the fixture list will obviously mean it's inherently different for each club.

Don't suppose it's any different for when they use it for certain cup games, but not all the games for whatever round it is.

I guess points are at stake mind in the league, can of worms if that happens.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Fenham Mag on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:17:44 pm
Might win a penalty now  :smugdog:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: jdckelly on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:19:38 pm
ugh
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: triggs on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:20:48 pm
Had to be done
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Aiston on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:25:17 pm
It's about time.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Hughesy on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:27:30 pm
Good.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:35:38 pm
Amazing news.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Kasper on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:35:58 pm
Great news
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Thursday 15 November 2018, 03:53:41 pm
A leveler, at last.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: 54 on Thursday 15 November 2018, 04:06:14 pm
This is VARy good news.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: neesy111 on Thursday 15 November 2018, 04:06:49 pm
:dog:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Thursday 15 November 2018, 04:49:55 pm
Really don't get how VAR can be implemented in anything other than a positive manner. Video assistants have been wildly successful in almost every other major sport.  It can't be that hard to look at how it's been done elsewhere and take those models forward.

Although on the other hand, football referees are so ball-shrinkingly poor across the board, if FIFA/UEFA/The FA can't even get some referees who aren't comically incompetent and/or manifestly bent, then there is no hope for anything other than free penalties for 'Big' clubs for ever more.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Kid Icarus on Thursday 15 November 2018, 05:16:12 pm
Unless they use it for every match one weekend, but even then the fixture list will obviously mean it's inherently different for each club.

Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but it's the same with Goal Line Technology I suppose.


Anyway, good-ish news I think.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Nobody on Thursday 15 November 2018, 05:18:14 pm
Awful news
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Thursday 15 November 2018, 05:25:26 pm
FINALLY. Fabulous news. We finally may start getting some decisions in our favour, after suffering for decades.

Having said that, people need to be patient. I'm sure the naysayers will be in full-force at the beginning, holding up the initial jitters with the new process and tech like Luddites hellbent on destroying machines. We need to give VAR time, and deal with all its inherent issues that will surface right away, and refine it over the years so that it works seamlessly and flawlessly. But this will take time, I just hope patience is something that's implemented along with it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: SEMTEX on Thursday 15 November 2018, 06:07:29 pm
Aye. It's definitely going to be s**** for at least a year. Maybe 10.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: HaydnNUFC on Thursday 15 November 2018, 06:16:50 pm
It was good in the WC, a few absolute howlers aside. But what makes me sceptical is our s**** refs: when it was trialled in the FA Cup last season it was absolutely awful. The Liverpool v West Brom comes to mind where there was up to 10 minutes of stoppage in the first half alone.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: NEEJ on Thursday 15 November 2018, 07:23:43 pm
We're definitely getting shafted if we're in the Premier League next year like. No doubt. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Thursday 15 November 2018, 07:28:17 pm
Until match going fans know what’s going on when they’re using it, it’ll always be gash.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Thursday 15 November 2018, 07:52:48 pm
We're definitely getting shafted if we're in the Premier League next year like. No doubt. :lol:

This is true with or without VAR.  We're makeweights in the PL now and are absolutely interchangeable with any other English club that isn't in the 'Big Six'. The FA would happily f*** us over to help out one of the 'Big clubs'.  VAR doesn't change this, it just means that the FA will have to find away to allow their bent refs to favour the big clubs without being caught out by VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Fugazi on Thursday 15 November 2018, 10:51:35 pm
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Thursday 15 November 2018, 11:04:35 pm
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Thursday 15 November 2018, 11:43:40 pm
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

Definitely didn’t ruin and probably improved the World Cup. The penalty scenario near the start was because of stupid players not var
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 15 November 2018, 11:59:19 pm
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

It was 100% the best thing about the World Cup. Rules actually were enforced.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Friday 16 November 2018, 02:01:28 am
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

It was 100% the best thing about the World Cup. Rules actually were enforced.
Except when they weren't :lol: Partly because of their own "Clear and Obvious Mistakes" rule, which wasn't enforced at all, but mostly the stoppage time rule was just completely ignored. Don't remember which game, but there was a game when there should have been about 8 minutes of stoppage time in the last 10 minutes alone, and barely none was given.
Anyone thinking this will lead to fairer games with fewer big decisions being given to big teams are in for a rude awakening IMO, it's just another step towards the big teams not missing out on a late penalty.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Friday 16 November 2018, 09:23:12 am
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.
How did it ruin the World Cup? :lol: There was a few bad decisions but much less than there would have been without it

Can’t understand a Newcastle fan not wanting VAR
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Friday 16 November 2018, 09:27:17 am
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

Because other genuine football fans think it improved the World Cup? It needs ironed out, but VAR at the World Cup was generally seen as a success and with good reason.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Friday 16 November 2018, 09:59:23 am
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

You've had a shocker there, mate!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Friday 16 November 2018, 02:00:31 pm
Also, VAR improved significantly as the WC progressed, so much so that we even forgot about it — it stopped getting in the way — in the semi finals and final.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: neesy111 on Friday 16 November 2018, 02:04:23 pm
VAR was a relative success at the world cup, still some s*** decisions with it mind.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Friday 16 November 2018, 02:12:32 pm
Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 12:19:42 am
Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.
In what way?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ohmelads on Saturday 17 November 2018, 02:38:21 am
I thought VAR might make the game fairer and that surely they couldn't just disregard the 'clear and obvious error' concept. But if the World Cup final was anything to go by, it'll just be another corrupt tool to manipulate games as you see fit if the little side is going against the script. I think the game is becoming increasingly corrupt and this only hands more power to influence results. In theory it should be good news but it ruined the world cup final.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Saturday 17 November 2018, 02:57:12 am
I genuinely can't wrap my head around how genuine football fans thinks this is good news. Did its absolute best to ruin what otherwise was a class World Cup IMO.

It was 100% the best thing about the World Cup. Rules actually were enforced.
but mostly the stoppage time rule was just completely ignored. Don't remember which game, but there was a game when there should have been about 8 minutes of stoppage time in the last 10 minutes alone, and barely none was given.

That isn't VAR's fault, it's the referee's

Teams deliberatley make subs in or just before stoppage time if they are winning as they know the refs never add all the time on.

Refs not having a backbone isn't VAR's fault.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:17:28 am
Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.
In what way?

Seriously? Ok.


Take our recent game against Man U, If we could have stopped the game for 5 mins at the end and thenonly added 3 stoppages, we would have come away with a point.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:32:25 am
That doesn't make any sense. You can't just randomly stop the game ffs.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: 54 on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:36:38 am
That doesn't make any sense. You can't just randomly stop the game ffs.
Exactly, it's only going to be used in game changing moments, a red card that maybe got missed, a goal that should have been allowed/ disallowed. If a team is try to get VAR to be used, it'll likely be for a red card offense, so it'll ultimately be a detriment of said team.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: covmag on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:46:52 am
the big clubs will still get the big decisions, fact   O0
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 12:04:23 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning. 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Bimpy474 on Saturday 17 November 2018, 12:17:43 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Saturday 17 November 2018, 12:50:35 pm
the big clubs will still get the big decisions, fact   O0

End of? Simple as?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: loki679 on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:24:14 pm
the big clubs will still get the big decisions, fact   O0

End of? Simple as?

He's just telling it like it is.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:42:53 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:44:51 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: STM on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:48:11 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.


The players have no say when VAR is used.   :lol:

If anything, this will prevent big clubs getting decisions. The refs will have nowhere to hide when they are looking at a video of the incident.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: STM on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:48:24 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:50:14 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:51:29 pm
Jumpers for goalposts, hmm? Lovely.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 01:58:59 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.


The players have no say when VAR is used.   :lol:

If anything, this will prevent big clubs getting decisions. The refs will have nowhere to hide when they are looking at a video of the incident.

I didn't say players could. Pay attention. My whole point is that it provides the opportunity to take everything out of the players hands.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 03:57:16 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 04:55:01 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Saturday 17 November 2018, 05:10:56 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.

In the fact that you say players could abuse it. If anything it’s the opposite
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 05:11:30 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.
Yes, in order to make the correct decision when a mistake is made by the referee
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:03:28 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.

In the fact that you say players could abuse it. If anything it’s the opposite

Quote, or f*** off.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:06:01 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.
Yes, in order to make the correct decision when a mistake is made by the referee


The VAR team ask the ef to look at something that they have seen, theref does not have to change his mind.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:09:56 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.
Yes, in order to make the correct decision when a mistake is made by the referee


The VAR team ask the ef to look at something that they have seen, theref does not have to change his mind.
And? That will take at most 2 minutes and if the ref doesn’t add the time on then that’s his fault
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:12:13 pm
You all seem to be assuming that I mean it can be exploited by the team winning.

It can't be exploited by either team, only the officials on the pitch in conjunction with those in front of the screen can bring the use of VARS.

Not sure what your point is really in regard to delaying the game, for the gain of whatever team that might be.


Same reason players on the leading side will feign injury, to interrupt the flow and reduce the pressure. You've never seen a game where the losing side are hammering the oppositon, but then they have a long injury and the game just fizzles out?

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have a clue what VAR is

5 mins to go leading team being bombarded, balls into the box, bit of a shirt tug, ball to hand, slightest touch on an attacker in the box, there are many ways VAR could end a game five minutes early.
The game is only stopped if the VAR team think the wrong decision was made or if the ref needs help. Did you watch the World Cup?


Where have I contradicted this? The point is the VAR team have the ability to stop the game.
Yes, in order to make the correct decision when a mistake is made by the referee


The VAR team ask the ef to look at something that they have seen, theref does not have to change his mind.
And? That will take at most 2 minutes and if the ref doesn’t add the time on then that’s his fault

Plus, as we know from the WC, the ref can choose to ignore the VAR team.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:16:17 pm
OK then, it's totally non-corruptible by the powers that be.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:18:42 pm
OK then, it's totally non-corruptible by the powers that be.

No more susceptible to corruption than refs being paid to do betting scams, with the exception that the world is literally watching how these decisions would be given compared to it normally only being the ref knowing why. This meaning VAR would be harder to use for corruption than the situation preceding VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 06:27:55 pm
OK then, it's totally non-corruptible by the powers that be.

No more susceptible to corruption than refs being paid to do betting scams, with the exception that the world is literally watching how these decisions would be given compared to it normally only being the ref knowing why. This meaning VAR would be harder to use for corruption than the situation preceding VAR.


Except I'm talking about the FA/SKY using it to give an advantage to the top teams. But like I say, the powers that be would never do such a thing.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 17 November 2018, 07:17:17 pm
OK then, it's totally non-corruptible by the powers that be.

No more susceptible to corruption than refs being paid to do betting scams, with the exception that the world is literally watching how these decisions would be given compared to it normally only being the ref knowing why. This meaning VAR would be harder to use for corruption than the situation preceding VAR.
Except I'm talking about the FA/SKY using it to give an advantage to the top teams. But like I say, the powers that be would never do such a thing.


How? You keep saying this, but you also keep not saying how they would use VAR to do this. If you're thinking they'll use VAR to stop the game to review incidents in added time when a big team is leading, the only thing that will do is review the incident VAR wants to review. Compared to using subs to waste time, the time VAR stops the game gets added on. If it doesn't, there'll be an uproar. The added time at the WC showed that VAR actually helped getting a more realistic amount of added time.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 07:43:19 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Saturday 17 November 2018, 07:57:25 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Saturday 17 November 2018, 08:04:45 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Saturday 17 November 2018, 08:18:10 pm
f***ing hell, I thought stan was bad
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Adam^ on Saturday 17 November 2018, 08:20:28 pm
If you have 3 or 4 subs who can sub on or off at any time then a player going down injured isn't an issue as they just get subbed off for a fit player.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Saturday 17 November 2018, 08:27:23 pm
f***ing hell :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Raconteur on Saturday 17 November 2018, 09:52:34 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:35:11 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Saturday 17 November 2018, 11:53:17 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 12:26:16 am
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Sunday 18 November 2018, 01:45:24 am
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Bimpy474 on Sunday 18 November 2018, 02:24:23 am
I'm not sure that chuckle brother actually died.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 02:57:44 am
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

Not to mention it's been a rule since the inception of association football.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Sunday 18 November 2018, 03:52:05 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

Not to mention it's been a rule since the inception of association football.

Very wrong.  Not only was it non-existent in the early days of football, it's been amended several times including notably recently with the inactive player rule.

http://www.sidelinesoccer.com/history-of-the-offside-rule (http://www.sidelinesoccer.com/history-of-the-offside-rule)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Sunday 18 November 2018, 03:54:16 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

No.  Changing one rule out of dozens doesn't make it a completely different sport.  This reminds me of that Peep Show scene where Callie asks what you would do if you had a chocolate bar that was half chocolate and half actual s***. Answer - snap of the s*** half.  Why keep doing something bad?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:02:42 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

No.  Changing one rule out of dozens doesn't make it a completely different sport.  This reminds me of that Peep Show scene where Callie asks what you would do if you had a chocolate bar that was half chocolate and half actual s***. Answer - snap of the s*** half.  Why keep doing something bad?
Its not bad. Football would be completely unrecognisable without offside
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:05:58 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

No.  Changing one rule out of dozens doesn't make it a completely different sport.  This reminds me of that Peep Show scene where Callie asks what you would do if you had a chocolate bar that was half chocolate and half actual s***. Answer - snap of the s*** half.  Why keep doing something bad?
Its not bad. Football would be completely unrecognisable without offside

I'm pretty sure if there was a game going without the offside rule, you'd be able to tell it was football.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Fugazi on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:15:45 pm
Getting rid off offsides :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morpeth mag on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:33:25 pm
My rule change proposal:

Game (clock) isn't stopped for subs. All managed by 4th official.
Sub comes on when player leaves the pitch as at present but game is running as this happens as in various other sports.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:33:54 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:34:03 pm
It's really f***ing simple.

Currently, if a team is winning by a single goal, but looking likely to concede because the opposition are dominating ("It's only a matter of time, surely"), then feigning injury is a commonly applied tactic, with the intention of taking the sting out of the game.

But as I have said The FA/SkY would not entertain the idea of using anything to afford the top teams an advantage, so it doesn't matter.

This sort of change would need to be implemented at FIFA level.  I've been saying for years that the rules of the game need updating.  Almost every other team sport reviews it's rules to keep pace with tactical developments, so why not football?

If I were King FIFA, my new rules would include:

1) 30 mins per half with clock stopped every time play stops - would completely eliminate time wasting overnight.
2) Scrap offsides completely - goalhanging (the reason offsides were brought in) was an archaic issue and won't be an issue in the modern game due to the need for all players to be involved in all phases of the game.  Would also open up more space on the pitch and get rid of contentious offside decisions completely.
3) Get rid of the penalty box.  Take a free kick from the point of foul instead - currently a penalty kick is way too valuable and leads to players preferring to take a tumble rather than try and shoot.  Also means that defending as an art is dying.
4) Goal line tech in all professional games.
5) TV Officials in all televised games.  Rather than VAR, have an official to give advice on all requested decisions.
6) Red card for simulation.  Simulation includes exaggerating contact - would encourage players to play the game and combined with TV officials, should all but eliminate diving.

However, the game flat refuses to evolve, and the fact that goal line technology took an age to bring in and VAR is somehow being implemented badly gives me no hope of change.  As a result, games will be one long diving fest, with timewasting, simulation and dodgy penalties continuing to win the day.


Have you thought of a name for this new sport you've invented?

Football?  Without offsides or pels it would still be football...

Maybe we should just carry on what we're doing for no other reason than because it's what we've always done?   Tactics have changed massively and there are some seriously cynical ways to exploit the rules.  Either football changes or it continues to be the pathetic shitfest it has become.
No offside makes the game a completely different sport. Its a ludicrous suggestion

Not to mention it's been a rule since the inception of association football.

Very wrong.  Not only was it non-existent in the early days of football, it's been amended several times including notably recently with the inactive player rule.

http://www.sidelinesoccer.com/history-of-the-offside-rule (http://www.sidelinesoccer.com/history-of-the-offside-rule)

The link you used literally says it's been implemented since the esrly days of association football (1863) ffs :lol: Minor adjustments to a rule is not the same as removing the rule entirely. Before the FA made the "actual" rules of football, schools had their own version of the offside rule - bit they still had the offside rule.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:40:24 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: xLiaaamx on Sunday 18 November 2018, 04:45:33 pm
I wouldn't be getting rid of pens or offsides, but in the last couple years I've certainly started to agree with stopping the clock when the ball's out of play rather than using stoppage time.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:14:19 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:24:03 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's realistic, or would be utilized by anyone even if it was. Whereas instead of engaging in the discussion you just keep saying you've not said the stuff that's led to the discussion, when you have. It's pointless.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:25:41 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's neither realitsic or would be utilized by anyone.

Double negative says you agree.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:27:07 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's neither realitsic or would be utilized by anyone. Whereas instead of engaging in the discussion you just keep saying you've not said the stuff that's led to the discussion, when you have. It's pointless.

What is pointless is you making claims about what I've said, when even your own evidence demonstrates  you're full of s***.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:29:03 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's neither realitsic or would be utilized by anyone. Whereas instead of engaging in the discussion you just keep saying you've not said the stuff that's led to the discussion, when you have. It's pointless.

What is pointless is you making claims about what I've said, when even your own evidence demonstrates  you're full of s***.

The main issue here is that instead of specifying what you meant when faced with apparent misunderstanding, you just keep re-iterating you didn't mean what - everyone - assumes you meant. It's extremely non-contributive, not to mention disruptive for actual discussion in this thread.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:38:00 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's neither realitsic or would be utilized by anyone. Whereas instead of engaging in the discussion you just keep saying you've not said the stuff that's led to the discussion, when you have. It's pointless.

What is pointless is you making claims about what I've said, when even your own evidence demonstrates  you're full of s***.

The main issue here is that instead of specifying what you meant when faced with apparent misunderstanding, you just keep re-iterating you didn't mean what - everyone - assumes you meant. It's extremely non-contributive, not to mention disruptive for actual discussion in this thread.


Well if people's assumptions are wrong then I'm going to correct them. If they continue to persst with those assumptions that is on them.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:46:02 pm
Players can still feign injury even when VAR is introduced. They cannot however make VAR come into action.

Are you completely pig ignorant? I have already stated that I'm not talking about players abusing it.

The FA preferring the big clubs aren't news, but saying they actively make refs give them decisions is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Rather, it's the refs bending over to the pressure of standing up against the big clubs, if anything, to create the perceived big club reffing bias - it will be incredibly harder to do after VAR is implemented as VAR isn't as subjective.

Again with the fantasist accusations. Where have I claimed that referees are doing anything at the behest of the FA?

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

Favoring big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

The FA pays for the service, going by the above point, the FA favours big clubs and could, according to you, abise VAR to favour the big clubs.

Every post since then has been following up on these two standpoints, giving arguments why they cannot abuse VAR this way. Nobody's saying you've said anything other than what you've said, but the argument has moved forward to use examples of why the things you have said are dumb.


You've just taken two comments and made an assumption. And a wrong assumption at that. My whole point is based around the fact that VAR gives them this opportunity.


And we're arguing why that's not an opportunity that's neither realitsic or would be utilized by anyone. Whereas instead of engaging in the discussion you just keep saying you've not said the stuff that's led to the discussion, when you have. It's pointless.

What is pointless is you making claims about what I've said, when even your own evidence demonstrates  you're full of s***.

The main issue here is that instead of specifying what you meant when faced with apparent misunderstanding, you just keep re-iterating you didn't mean what - everyone - assumes you meant. It's extremely non-contributive, not to mention disruptive for actual discussion in this thread.


Well if people's assumptions are wrong then I'm going to correct them. If they continue to persst with those assumptions that is on them.


You haven't corrected them. You've just said they're wrong without giving any reason as to why, which makes it easy to assume you're more interested in being flippant rather than actually wanting to participate in discussing the subject at hand.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:46:45 pm
And the reason I am forced to repeat those two standpoints, is precisely because they are the only two standpoints I have made.

1. That an advantage can be gained as a result of the game being interrupted in the dying minutes.

2. That VAR has the capability of stopping the game in the dying minutes.

1+2=3. Var presents an opportunity to afford an advantage to a team who is hanging on for a win. I know I said the big clubs, but it's not restricted to them. It could easily be used in a relegation battle. Just to keep things exciting for the final weekend of televisual spectacular.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:51:31 pm
And the reason I am forced to repeat those two standpoints, is precisely because they are the only two standpoints I have made.

1. That an advantage can be gained as a result of the game being interrupted in the dying minutes.

2. That VAR has the capability of stopping the game in the dying minutes.

Revisionist history, these were your actual standpoints:

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

Much more leading, clearly implying VAR will be used as a tool to aid big clubs. Which is what people have discussed as a result of your posts.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 05:56:27 pm
And the reason I am forced to repeat those two standpoints, is precisely because they are the only two standpoints I have made.

1. That an advantage can be gained as a result of the game being interrupted in the dying minutes.

2. That VAR has the capability of stopping the game in the dying minutes.

Revisionist history, these were your actual standpoints:

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

Much more leading, clearly implying VAR will be used as a tool to aid big clubs. Which is what people have discussed as a result of your posts.

No. Clearly pointing out that it could be. Which was my original comment, supported by the other two standpoints.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Sunday 18 November 2018, 06:05:24 pm
And the reason I am forced to repeat those two standpoints, is precisely because they are the only two standpoints I have made.

1. That an advantage can be gained as a result of the game being interrupted in the dying minutes.

2. That VAR has the capability of stopping the game in the dying minutes.

Revisionist history, these were your actual standpoints:

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

Much more leading, clearly implying VAR will be used as a tool to aid big clubs. Which is what people have discussed as a result of your posts.

No. Clearly pointing out that it could be. Which was my original comment, supported by the other two standpoints.

Again, what people have been discussing is how unlikely the exploitation would be, because of you pointing it out - which you did.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 November 2018, 06:12:05 pm
And the reason I am forced to repeat those two standpoints, is precisely because they are the only two standpoints I have made.

1. That an advantage can be gained as a result of the game being interrupted in the dying minutes.

2. That VAR has the capability of stopping the game in the dying minutes.

Revisionist history, these were your actual standpoints:

Great way to disrupt the game if somebody is getting close to an equaliser against one of the big clubs.

As for who can abuse it, I'm pretty sure those paying for the service will be able to do whatever they like.

Much more leading, clearly implying VAR will be used as a tool to aid big clubs. Which is what people have discussed as a result of your posts.

No. Clearly pointing out that it could be. Which was my original comment, supported by the other two standpoints.

Again, what people have been discussing is how unlikely the exploitation would be, because of you pointing it out - which you did.

Well maybe I am guilty of assumption on this occasion, because I thought they were pointing out reasons why it wasn't possible, or beneficial.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: newsted on Sunday 18 November 2018, 06:15:18 pm
Stop pls.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Sunday 18 November 2018, 07:04:55 pm
Stop pls.
This thread has taken a bit of a turn :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:26:57 pm
Come in, sweet prince.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Yorkie on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:28:31 pm
Not gonna go clamouring for VAR just because we've been hard done by again. The referee should absolutely have seen the offence. He was looking right at it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:29:35 pm
Not gonna go clamouring for VAR just because we've been hard done by again. The referee should absolutely have seen the offence. He was looking right at it.

And that’s the actual point, he DIDN’T see it. Refs are s***, something needs to be done.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Yorkie on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:30:17 pm
S'pose.

Urgh. So f***ing f***ed off.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:30:49 pm
Not gonna go clamouring for VAR just because we've been hard done by again. The referee should absolutely have seen the offence. He was looking right at it.

“Not gonna call for gun control just because we’ve had another mass shooting.”
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Sunday 9 December 2018, 06:32:02 pm
Not gonna go clamouring for VAR just because we've been hard done by again. The referee should absolutely have seen the offence. He was looking right at it.

And that’s the actual point, he DIDN’T see it. Refs are s***, something needs to be done.

He saw it, but what he saw was the ball hitting Perez in the face. :lol: It's a f***ing joke at this point like.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Sunday 9 December 2018, 07:09:58 pm
VAR won’t change a thing. The referee in the VAR room will just have a different interpretation of the rules, will make s*** up about their footage not catching it etc. In England our referee’s look out for one an other and look out for the FA’s agenda, someone in the room out of the way will just back them up.

You also have to remember that unless it’s something like a goal then the referee has to request for VAR feedback, Mike Dean wouldn’t have requested for feedback on the incident today because he saw what he wanted to see and made the decision that he wanted to make.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Sunday 9 December 2018, 07:12:04 pm
Not true. The VAR panel would have advised him to review it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Sunday 9 December 2018, 07:14:38 pm
Not true. The VAR panel would have advised him to review it.
Depends how they implement it.
There is different ways of doing it.
Some where only goals, red cards, and penalties are automatically reviewed, and the referee requests feedback. Others where the incidents are always reviewed and Mike Dean would have been told to look at it. At the end of the day Mike Dean would still have been in charge of the decision and the decision was never going to change.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Sunday 9 December 2018, 07:15:06 pm
I want VAR to be implemented simply to show up the conspiracy theorists who’ve been trying to convince us it’ll be a drunk Paul Merson smashing buttons in front of a screen, in a dark room somewhere.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: wormy on Sunday 9 December 2018, 07:19:08 pm
VAR won’t change a thing. The referee in the VAR room will just have a different interpretation of the rules, will make s*** up about their footage not catching it etc. In England our referee’s look out for one an other and look out for the FA’s agenda, someone in the room out of the way will just back them up.

You also have to remember that unless it’s something like a goal then the referee has to request for VAR feedback, Mike Dean wouldn’t have requested for feedback on the incident today because he saw what he wanted to see and made the decision that he wanted to make.

I don't get the concept of 'no point in VAR because refs will still be s***'. Is it an offshoot of our club's Stockholm syndrome with Ashley? :lol:

Anything that helps to resolve the absolute joke that refereeing has become even slightly is needed imo. How there's Newcastle fans of all people still out there who think VAR isn't a good idea astounds me.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Sunday 9 December 2018, 08:14:31 pm
VAR won’t change a thing. The referee in the VAR room will just have a different interpretation of the rules, will make s*** up about their footage not catching it etc. In England our referee’s look out for one another and look out for the FA’s agenda, someone in the room out of the way will just back them up.

You also have to remember that unless it’s something like a goal then the referee has to request for VAR feedback, Mike Dean wouldn’t have requested for feedback on the incident today because he saw what he wanted to see and made the decision that he wanted to make.

I don't get the concept of 'no point in VAR because refs will still be s***'. Is it an offshoot of our club's Stockholm syndrome with Ashley? :lol:

Anything that helps to resolve the absolute joke that refereeing has become even slightly is needed imo. How there's Newcastle fans of all people still out there who think VAR isn't a good idea astounds me.
We have had a longer period of time with the referee's being s*** and looking out for their own teams' agenda's than Ashley has owned us.
How many times did Winter referee us despite being a Boro fan? He also called off their match against us due to snow when there was none because Boro had key injuries.
How many times have we played a Manchester team with a referee from Manchester refereeing us? Or the same when we had a confessed Huddersfield fan refereeing us against Huddersfield and other matches that affected Huddersfield's chances of staying up or going down?

Look at when they brought in booking for diving. They only did it when the teams from outside the Sky 6 started doing it, but how often do the Sky 6 players who are the worst offenders get booked for it compared to when the smaller teams do it?

Look at when it was normal for only 1-2, or at most 3 minutes to be added on at the end of games, that was unless Man Utd needed a goal and 5-6-7 minutes were normal? They even named it Fergie time and eventually after 1 too many incidents did it start becoming more normal to see 4-5 and 6 minutes added on in-game not involving Man Utd.

Referee's in this country and the Premier League have had an agenda, an agenda to be biased towards the Sky 6 clubs, and against any other teams, they do not like, as Mike Dean does against us. They also have an agenda to stand by each other. That's why the referees aren't forced to be interviewed after games like managers and players are. That's why managers, players, and owners get fined if they dare say anything bad against a referee, and that's why the former referee they have going on TV and the radio always backs up the referee's decision.

So yes, I don't think VAR will change anything, one because it will never be clarified when an incident is looked at with VAR, if the referee can dismiss being told he was wrong, and the age-old excuse of (It's how he interpreted the law). Mike Dean today eventually and reluctantly walked over to Perez who was down with a head injury, had blood coming out of his nose, and told him he had been elbowed, and his response was 'The ball hit you'.

Do any of you ever think these c***s will ever change and won't use new technology to their advantage?   
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Sunday 9 December 2018, 08:45:40 pm
Good interview with Mark Clattenburg happening on talksport right now. Interesting bloke.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 9 December 2018, 11:46:09 pm
Not gonna go clamouring for VAR just because we've been hard done by again. The referee should absolutely have seen the offence. He was looking right at it.

“Not gonna call for gun control just because we’ve had another mass shooting.”
the point is it shouldn't take technology to spot something like that, for the richest league in the world at the moment the refs are unbelievably s*** and nothing is being done to correct it and I have no faith VAR will fix it because it will still be those morons involved anyway.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:16:02 pm
Did anyone here watch the World Cup- any serious incidents are brought to the refs attention, he then has to re look at it or take their advice.

Last night we 100% would have had a pen

Why in any world that would be a bad thing I really don’t know
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: LoveItIfWeBeatU on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:20:38 pm
The fact is clubs get relegated or stay in the Premiership due to the human error/incompetence/corruption of match officials. With £200m riding on it, I'm sure all clubs would rather their fate was decided by VAR correct decisions rather than real time human incorrect decisions.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: madras on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:33:00 pm
Would VAR have cleared up either of the major decisions yesterday ?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kanji on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:39:02 pm
Mike Dean would have been insulted by video evidence
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kanji on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:41:38 pm
Did anyone here watch the World Cup- any serious incidents are brought to the refs attention, he then has to re look at it or take their advice.

Last night we 100% would have had a pen

Why in any world that would be a bad thing I really don’t know

Probably the same people who hate goal line tech.

You have tech out there to help improve the game and take out human error in GOV the game. The whole point of rules set is to have them provide fair results. When human eyes can’t see all and videos can help - use it. f***ing idiotic not to. Arguments against it are worthless
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:44:46 pm
Would VAR have cleared up either of the major decisions yesterday ?

I was going to ask that too.

It wouldn’t have been used on the elbow because the ref allowed play to continue.

On the Yedlin red, it’s a matter of judgement. Even if VAR was used they could easily have agreed it was a red.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wilson on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:52:06 pm
Would VAR have cleared up either of the major decisions yesterday ?

I was going to ask that too.

It wouldn’t have been used on the elbow because the ref allowed play to continue.

On the Yedlin red, it’s a matter of judgement. Even if VAR was used they could easily have agreed it was a red.

Is that the rule? Genuine question. Once play did stop could he not have went back to it?  The useless prick should have stopped play for the head injury anyway.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:52:45 pm
I’m not sure either. But why would he if he didn’t see anything wrong?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:53:19 pm
Would VAR have cleared up either of the major decisions yesterday ?

I was going to ask that too.

It wouldn’t have been used on the elbow because the ref allowed play to continue.

On the Yedlin red, it’s a matter of judgement. Even if VAR was used they could easily have agreed it was a red.

What? VAR is still used when play isn't stopped.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:53:55 pm
I’m not sure either. But why would he if he didn’t see anything wrong?

The VAR panel alert the ref to it, not the other way on (in that example).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:53:57 pm
I honestly don’t know when it gets called for.

I got the impression it was more restricted than people just watching the whole game and reporting things to the ref.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wilson on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:55:17 pm
I’m not sure either. But why would he if he didn’t see anything wrong?

Fair point.  I'm just wondering if he could have went back to it once it was obvious something had happened (which should have been when he noticed the head injury).  Suppose it's all ifs and buts really.

The VAR panel alert the ref to it, not the other way on (in that example).

Makes more sense.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:56:05 pm
Don’t listen to me, I don’t know either :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:56:49 pm
There are three ways VAR can play out during the game:

1. The video referee speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, who will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed. If satisfied there is no error, he will signal for play to re-start.

2. VAR decides. In this instance the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen. The video referee will review the incident and the referee will make the same signal if he wishes to change his decision.

3, An 'on-field review', as we saw when Italy were rewarded a penalty at Wembley earlier this year. With more subjective decisions, the video referee will instruct the referee to watch a replay on a pitchside screen. He will make the 'TV signal' before communicating his final decision.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 12:58:00 pm
But on option 2, what constitutes an incident or a decision? Just anything seen on TV?

If so I guess that’s good, I just thought it was more restricted for some reason.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 01:00:17 pm
But on option 2, what constitutes an incident or a decision? Just anything seen on TV?

If so I guess that’s good, I just thought it was more restricted for some reason.

It's not just "on TV". The VAR panel have loads of screens and loads of camera angles. No way they would have missed it last night.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Monday 10 December 2018, 01:07:37 pm
But on option 2, what constitutes an incident or a decision? Just anything seen on TV?

If so I guess that’s good, I just thought it was more restricted for some reason.

It's not just "on TV". The VAR panel have loads of screens and loads of camera angles. No way they would have missed it last night.

Exactly really don’t understand how people don’t think the decision would be changed?

Also of course the game could be pulled back after continuing- even if wolves had scored
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Adam^ on Monday 10 December 2018, 01:12:09 pm
From my understanding with the elbow yesterday, play would have continued with the VAR ref altering Dean once he had seen the incident. So even if Wolves had gone up the other end and scored, they could have reviewed the elbow and brought play back to that point. Makes more sense to let play continue till it stops with the ball out of play or play stagnates, then call the review.

Either way its needed sooner than later, no excuse for it not be used already.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 01:16:03 pm
From my understanding with the elbow yesterday, play would have continued with the VAR ref altering Dean once he had seen the incident. So even if Wolves had gone up the other end and scored, they could have reviewed the elbow and brought play back to that point. Makes more sense to let play continue till it stops with the ball out of play or play stagnates, then call the review.

Either way its needed sooner than later, no excuse for it not be used already.

To the actual letter of the law ref should have stopped the game for the head injury. During the break in play he would have reviewed the incident (either after being alerted to it, or actually being a good ref and taking a look at it himself).


The whole incident is indefensible.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Monday 10 December 2018, 02:31:30 pm
From my understanding with the elbow yesterday, play would have continued with the VAR ref altering Dean once he had seen the incident. So even if Wolves had gone up the other end and scored, they could have reviewed the elbow and brought play back to that point. Makes more sense to let play continue till it stops with the ball out of play or play stagnates, then call the review.

Either way its needed sooner than later, no excuse for it not be used already.

To the actual letter of the law ref should have stopped the game for the head injury. During the break in play he would have reviewed the incident (either after being alerted to it, or actually being a good ref and taking a look at it himself).


The whole incident is indefensible.

Does the ref have to stop the game every time somebody clutches their head? Or is the decision down to whether he thinks the injury is genuine? If Dean thought Perez had been hit in the face with the ball, he would likely assume he is faking it. Doe sthe ref have to stop the game anyway?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 10 December 2018, 02:41:24 pm
But on option 2, what constitutes an incident or a decision? Just anything seen on TV?

If so I guess that’s good, I just thought it was more restricted for some reason.

It's not just "on TV". The VAR panel have loads of screens and loads of camera angles. No way they would have missed it last night.

Exactly really don’t understand how people don’t think the decision would be changed?

Also of course the game could be pulled back after continuing- even if wolves had scored

No but what I mean is, VAR are just watching the game effectively as an always-on video referee who can tell the on-pitch ref anything at any time?

I thought there were more restrictions than that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thomas on Monday 10 December 2018, 03:29:57 pm
Is the panel guaranteed to be neutral ala the matchday refs and not supporting certain clubs?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mickthemagpie on Monday 10 December 2018, 03:45:42 pm
Is the panel guaranteed to be neutral ala the matchday refs and not supporting certain clubs?

Probably about as neutral as Mike Dean.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: midds on Monday 10 December 2018, 06:04:24 pm
VAR is all well and good but at the end of the day a c*** like Mike Dean still has to have another look at it has to admit he got it wrong and that's always going to be the issue. Dean absolutely loves the attention and goes out of his way to turn each match into the Mike Dean show. He's supremely arrogant and that's always the flaw, the officials in the studio can say he got it wrong but it's ultimately up to Dean to change his mind. VAR wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference on Sunday imho.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Monday 10 December 2018, 06:19:53 pm
From my understanding with the elbow yesterday, play would have continued with the VAR ref altering Dean once he had seen the incident. So even if Wolves had gone up the other end and scored, they could have reviewed the elbow and brought play back to that point. Makes more sense to let play continue till it stops with the ball out of play or play stagnates, then call the review.

Either way its needed sooner than later, no excuse for it not be used already.

To the actual letter of the law ref should have stopped the game for the head injury. During the break in play he would have reviewed the incident (either after being alerted to it, or actually being a good ref and taking a look at it himself).


The whole incident is indefensible.

Does the ref have to stop the game every time somebody clutches their head? Or is the decision down to whether he thinks the injury is genuine? If Dean thought Perez had been hit in the face with the ball, he would likely assume he is faking it. Doe sthe ref have to stop the game anyway?


Ref HAS to stop the game for any injury deemed serious, regardless of the cause. However, he’s a bit of a w*****, so I reckon if Perez had taken a machete to the throat he still wouldn’t stop it.

Even a ball to the face can knock a player out, break a nose etc, so the game needed to be stopped.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Bimpy474 on Monday 10 December 2018, 06:26:22 pm
You can just guarantee the first time VARS gets used in a game involving us, it's going to go against us and we get a goal ruled out, or get a penalty given against us  :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Tsunami on Monday 10 December 2018, 06:35:27 pm
After the elbow Dean made a conscious decision not to look back to check on Perez and simply ran up the pitch as Wolves broke. It was bad enough that he didn’t see the elbow but he also deliberately disregarded a head injury.

Yedlin was fouled for the sending off and that’s mostly been glossed over, clear pull on his shirt but he didn’t dare throw himself to the ground in case it wasn’t given.

Has to be said though; we let in 2 poor goals.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: LoveItIfWeBeatU on Tuesday 11 December 2018, 06:47:44 pm
You can just guarantee the first time VARS gets used in a game involving us, it's going to go against us and we get a goal ruled out, or get a penalty given against us  :lol:

On the positive side, for that to happen it would mean we had avoided relegation this season and were playing in the Premiership next season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Saturday 15 December 2018, 04:29:49 pm
After the string of bent decisions we've had against us this season, the debate is over.  Someone please lock this thread.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TRon on Saturday 15 December 2018, 04:56:18 pm
Still half expecting one of these refs to award a pen against us, then run up and whack it in himself.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: BlueStar on Wednesday 19 December 2018, 08:34:11 pm
Going to be used in our cup game vs Blackburn
http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/dec/19/fa-cup-third-round-var-191218
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Wednesday 19 December 2018, 08:36:29 pm
You can just guarantee the first time VARS gets used in a game involving us, it's going to go against us and we get a goal ruled out, or get a penalty given against us  :lol:

Nailed on.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Wednesday 19 December 2018, 11:37:25 pm
Going to be used in our cup game vs Blackburn
http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/dec/19/fa-cup-third-round-var-191218

We're gonna win the cup!  :frantic:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Elric on Thursday 20 December 2018, 03:25:23 pm
Going to be used in our cup game vs Blackburn
http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/dec/19/fa-cup-third-round-var-191218

We're gonna win the cup!  :frantic:

Blackburn to win by a VAR-awarded goal :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sbnufc on Friday 8 March 2019, 12:59:39 pm
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2594607.html?iv=true&iv=true

Quote
Paris Saint-Germain – Manchester United FC
Penalty award - 90'

The VAR, after checking various different angles available to him, recommended to the referee an on-field review following the penalty area incident.

Given that the referee did not recognise the incident clearly during live play (referred to as serious missed incident in the VAR protocol) an on-field review was conducted.

Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty kick.

All the above-mentioned decisions were made in full compliance with the VAR protocol.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Friday 8 March 2019, 01:29:21 pm
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2594607.html?iv=true&iv=true

Quote
Paris Saint-Germain – Manchester United FC
Penalty award - 90'

The VAR, after checking various different angles available to him, recommended to the referee an on-field review following the penalty area incident.

Given that the referee did not recognise the incident clearly during live play (referred to as serious missed incident in the VAR protocol) an on-field review was conducted.

Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty kick.

All the above-mentioned decisions were made in full compliance with the VAR protocol.

Looking forward to everyone defending like penguins from now on...
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: JCONA on Friday 8 March 2019, 04:46:55 pm
Absolute bullshit. The ball was blasted at him and had a trajectory towards the moon.

Mcmanaman was almost laughing about it on the commentary, if it was awards against man u they'd all be furious.

VAR is absolutely awful
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Friday 8 March 2019, 05:01:33 pm
VAR is great.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Friday 8 March 2019, 06:13:14 pm
"Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty kick."

Not sure how you can blame VAR for this. This is about interpretation. It's like blaming your glasses for watching a volcano erupt.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: neesy111 on Friday 8 March 2019, 06:15:49 pm
"Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty kick."

Not sure how you can blame VAR for this. This is about interpretation. It's like blaming your glasses for watching a volcano erupt.

The referee had 2 mins to check the incident, if he can't see the distance to speed in that time then he shouldn't be in the job.  There's no point in var if it's not going to correct the clear and obvious errors, would rather see left it as it is.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Friday 8 March 2019, 06:19:14 pm
"Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty kick."

Not sure how you can blame VAR for this. This is about interpretation. It's like blaming your glasses for watching a volcano erupt.

The referee had 2 mins to check the incident, if he can't see the distance to speed in that time then he shouldn't be in the job.  There's no point in var if it's not going to correct the clear and obvious errors, would rather see left it as it is.

We're in agreement with the outcome, but you and I seem to be blaming two different things. I don't think it's the technology's fault here, and VAR, like all tech, can be used for good as well as bad. Clearly the incompetent refs are the issue. I'd say let VAR expose these frauds, over time this will FORCE the refs, FA and UEFA to improve.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 10:20:16 am
It struck me when looking at that glorious picture of the crowd following Perez's second goal, this is the kind of thing that VAR is going to take away from us. And I don't just mean because it was offside, and hence would subsequently have been disallowed. Even if Rondon had been onside, they would have referred it to be checked. So you would have had those few seconds of total joy, then the ref would have been like, hold on lads, we're just checking VAR to see if it counts. So everybody puts celebrations on hold while they check it for a couple of minutes. Oh, it's alright, start your celebrations again.

VAR will undoubtedly result in more 'right' decisions being made, certainly in respect of offside anyway, so in that sense it's difficult to argue it's a 'bad' thing. But, IMO, it's definitely going to take something away from the matchday experience. Even if you're just watching on the telly. Those spontaneous moments of sheer joy in the aftermath of a goal, so well captured in the Perez picture, are going to be diluted, and that is to the detriment of the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 10:30:45 am
:thup: One of the things I hate most about it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: samag on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:05:19 am
It struck me when looking at that glorious picture of the crowd following Perez's second goal, this is the kind of thing that VAR is going to take away from us. And I don't just mean because it was offside, and hence would subsequently have been disallowed. Even if Rondon had been onside, they would have referred it to be checked. So you would have had those few seconds of total joy, then the ref would have been like, hold on lads, we're just checking VAR to see if it counts. So everybody puts celebrations on hold while they check it for a couple of minutes. Oh, it's alright, start your celebrations again.

VAR will undoubtedly result in more 'right' decisions being made, certainly in respect of offside anyway, so in that sense it's difficult to argue it's a 'bad' thing. But, IMO, it's definitely going to take something away from the matchday experience. Even if you're just watching on the telly. Those spontaneous moments of sheer joy in the aftermath of a goal, so well captured in the Perez picture, are going to be diluted, and that is to the detriment of the game.
To be honest the V.A .R has not done the game any favors  here in Australia  . Seems to be just as many bad decisions. 
Rather  not have it myself , 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:09:19 am
I can't believe any NUFC fan doesn't want VAR like. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:20:28 am
I can't believe any NUFC fan doesn't want VAR like. :lol:

My point isn't really about whether it's going to benefit NUFC particularly (although just because we've had the rough end of decisions over the past couple of seasons, and would have theoretically benefited from it's use, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to play out like that going forward, but anyway). It's more about what it takes away from the game as a whole (from a fan perspective).

Perhaps we shouldn't care about being joyous in the moment, during a game. Perhaps we should all just be happy afterwards that the correct decision was made and we can all agree on that (unless it involves a handball decision obviously, which is a complete shambles at the moment).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:24:17 am
Yup, that's the price we will have to pay to get more correct decisions, which is fine with me.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:28:13 am
Yup, that's the price we will have to pay to get more correct decisions, which is fine with me.

We fundamentally disagree there then.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:33:43 am
:thup: One of the things I hate most about it.

Yup. It's s****.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:45:27 am
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:49:50 am
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:51:51 am
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:52:04 am
It's very different. The linesman is unlikely to flag for a possible throw in thirty seconds earlier.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:53:17 am
It's very different. The linesman is unlikely to flag for a possible throw in thirty seconds earlier.

I'm on about offside mainly.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Away Day Gadgie on Monday 11 March 2019, 11:54:03 am
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:

I do, it’s not weird at all.  If there’s a chance of an offside/foul/handball in the build up then i always hang fire in case it gets disallowed. 
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:00:49 pm
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:

I do, it’s not weird at all.  If there’s a chance of an offside/foul/handball in the build up then i always hang fire in case it gets disallowed.

Yes, joking aside, we probably all do glance at the linesman, if we think there's something, usually offside, potentially wrong with any goal. But as I say, that's a second or so that doesn't impede upon the spontaneity of your celebration. Hanging fire while they check 17 different camera angles to look at something will. It was very evident in that brilliant goal Tadic scored at Madrid last week.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:05:02 pm
That's just how it has to be though, do you want more correct decisions or not?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SteV on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:11:11 pm
That's just how it has to be though, do you want more correct decisions or not?

Potentially not, if it's going to spoil my enjoyment of the game.

Suppose it's all about the degree of intrusion you're prepared to put up with. You're prepared to wait up to a few minutes to (supposedly) get the correct decision. I'm not, as I think it devalues both the moment and the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:11:59 pm
It doesn't have to be like that though does it? Source: the last 120 years of football becoming by far the most popular sport in the world.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:19:35 pm
If i actually thought the referees were fair to every team then i MIGHT have a slightly different view on it.

But they blatently aren't, this will at least even it out a bit.

No more bias decisions to the 'big' teams.

Or, fewer anyway.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:21:38 pm
It doesn't have to be like that though does it? Source: the last 120 years of football becoming by far the most popular sport in the world.

To get the correct decision it does though, which is what we are discussing.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:28:09 pm
How important is "getting the right decision" when it impacts this much on the game itself, which has been so popular without needing it before now?

You must agree that there's a line somewhere (unless you're in favour of doing away with on-field officials altogether and just having a referee with a camera make every single decision, with players waiting for a signal for each contentious throw in etc) and for me VAR crosses the line into overly intrusive.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:31:18 pm
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:

I do, it’s not weird at all.  If there’s a chance of an offside/foul/handball in the build up then i always hang fire in case it gets disallowed.

Yes, joking aside, we probably all do glance at the linesman, if we think there's something, usually offside, potentially wrong with any goal. But as I say, that's a second or so that doesn't impede upon the spontaneity of your celebration. Hanging fire while they check 17 different camera angles to look at something will. It was very evident in that brilliant goal Tadic scored at Madrid last week.

Quick glance at the linesman is a part of winding up the spring.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:33:36 pm
Commercial opportunities abound. The referee is consulting VAR! What's his decision? We'll find out after the break.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Cookie1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:41:53 pm
the ref in the man utd game yesterday desperatley needs VAR

the fat moron got nearly every decision wrong
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Mattoon on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:46:47 pm
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:

I do, it’s not weird at all.  If there’s a chance of an offside/foul/handball in the build up then i always hang fire in case it gets disallowed.

Yes, joking aside, we probably all do glance at the linesman, if we think there's something, usually offside, potentially wrong with any goal. But as I say, that's a second or so that doesn't impede upon the spontaneity of your celebration. Hanging fire while they check 17 different camera angles to look at something will. It was very evident in that brilliant goal Tadic scored at Madrid last week.

Quick glance at the linesman is a part of winding up the spring.

I held my breath for what seemed like an eternity after that 3rd goal against Everton, then I went mad when I realised it wasn't given. If it's a fine margin then yes I will glance to see if a call has been made before celebrating.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 11 March 2019, 12:55:22 pm
How important is "getting the right decision" when it impacts this much on the game itself, which has been so popular without needing it before now?

You must agree that there's a line somewhere (unless you're in favour of doing away with on-field officials altogether and just having a referee with a camera make every single decision, with players waiting for a signal for each contentious throw in etc) and for me VAR crosses the line into overly intrusive.

Umm, if you want correct decisions, very important.

Things like throw ins are still going to be wrong, i can accept that.

Blatent offsides etc nah, they NEED to be correct.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Away Day Gadgie on Monday 11 March 2019, 01:00:09 pm
To be honest when i'm at the match and we score, i always delay my celebration by a second to see if the lino has his flag up or anything anyway.

Bit weird mate  :lol:

Nonetheless, hanging fire for a second or so is a bit different to a couple of minutes...

So no one else looks at the lino to check? :lol:

I do, it’s not weird at all.  If there’s a chance of an offside/foul/handball in the build up then i always hang fire in case it gets disallowed.

Yes, joking aside, we probably all do glance at the linesman, if we think there's something, usually offside, potentially wrong with any goal. But as I say, that's a second or so that doesn't impede upon the spontaneity of your celebration. Hanging fire while they check 17 different camera angles to look at something will. It was very evident in that brilliant goal Tadic scored at Madrid last week.
I agree that it will take away some excitement in certain instances, can’t argue with that.  I just think that using current situations as to why VAR is s*** isn’t that relevant as the system is still in it’s infancy.   It will almost definitely improve over the next few years and soon we should have a pretty fast, effecient system that takes away that element of injustice most of the time.  Also, it doesn’t get used on every goal, so i think a lot of people are watching 1 clip of when the decision has taken too long and exaggerating the overall impact VAR has.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 01:01:21 pm
It does get used on every goal.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Monday 11 March 2019, 01:07:00 pm
It does get used on every goal.
Every goal gets looked at. It doesn't stop the game unless there's an error or a perceived error
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Away Day Gadgie on Monday 11 March 2019, 01:07:55 pm
It does get used on every goal.
Every goal gets looked at. It doesn't stop the game unless there's an error or a perceived error

Yeah it was the stoppage i was referring to, poor wording from me.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 11 March 2019, 01:08:58 pm
:thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Raconteur on Tuesday 12 March 2019, 12:54:49 am
It struck me when looking at that glorious picture of the crowd following Perez's second goal, this is the kind of thing that VAR is going to take away from us. And I don't just mean because it was offside, and hence would subsequently have been disallowed. Even if Rondon had been onside, they would have referred it to be checked. So you would have had those few seconds of total joy, then the ref would have been like, hold on lads, we're just checking VAR to see if it counts. So everybody puts celebrations on hold while they check it for a couple of minutes. Oh, it's alright, start your celebrations again.

VAR will undoubtedly result in more 'right' decisions being made, certainly in respect of offside anyway, so in that sense it's difficult to argue it's a 'bad' thing. But, IMO, it's definitely going to take something away from the matchday experience. Even if you're just watching on the telly. Those spontaneous moments of sheer joy in the aftermath of a goal, so well captured in the Perez picture, are going to be diluted, and that is to the detriment of the game.
To be honest the V.A .R has not done the game any favors  here in Australia  . Seems to be just as many bad decisions. 
Rather  not have it myself , 

The way we have done it is more due to the incredible incompetence of the FFA and everyone associated with it. s*** refs referring s*** decisions to s*** reviewers. At the start of the season there was an objectively incorrect decision being made after review every week.

It effects the behaviour of referees (ours, at least). They become more conservative, knowing they have a safety net. Seems that way to me, anyway.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:21:15 pm
VAR  :clap:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:24:43 pm
VAR  :clap:

Can’t wait for it too :thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ketsbaia on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:32:34 pm
I think the combination of Rafa leaving and VAR coming in will be it for me, like :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:33:30 pm
vArCe mOrE lIkE
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:35:57 pm
I think the combination of Rafa leaving and VAR coming in will be it for me, like :lol: :lol:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: The Prophet on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:40:21 pm
Overall, made the correct calls this evening.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:42:18 pm
Wonder if people will soon stop celebrating until they’ve seen a replay?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:47:14 pm
Most goals aren't reviewed. Don't know how you can complain about decisions against us if you're against VAR like
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:49:52 pm
Handball decisions aside (which is more of a rulebook issue anyway IMO) it does seem to be after improving a lot since the World Cup too
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sbnufc on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 10:58:27 pm
Why show one set of replays for TV and others for refs? The best view of the Llorente handball wasn't even shown to the ref, despite it being shown on TV seconds before

VAR is good, but there's a lot to work on.  The whole celebration ruining thing does sit well with me either, but not much can be done about it
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 11:15:04 pm
f*** VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: 54 on Wednesday 17 April 2019, 11:19:25 pm
f*** VAR.
Do that and you may get some sort of Virus.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:21:56 am
As if any NUFC fan doesn't want VAR.

Want us to keep getting f***ed over like? :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thomas on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:27:20 am
f*** VAR.
(https://i.imgur.com/P0qrMHM.png)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sbnufc on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:33:03 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:35:11 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too

Sounds awful imo.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sbnufc on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:44:18 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too

Sounds awful imo.
How's it any worse than them checking every single thing and potentially delaying the game/stopping celebrations multiple times?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Thursday 18 April 2019, 01:50:46 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too

Sounds awful imo.
How's it any worse than them checking every single thing and potentially delaying the game/stopping celebrations multiple times?

Because if someone makes a challenge which is wrong then a blatant offside is unable to be challenged it removes the whole need for var
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sbnufc on Thursday 18 April 2019, 02:00:08 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too

Sounds awful imo.
How's it any worse than them checking every single thing and potentially delaying the game/stopping celebrations multiple times?

Because if someone makes a challenge which is wrong then a blatant offside is unable to be challenged it removes the whole need for var
Shouldn't waste the challenge on a correct decision then  O0

Fair enough I guess. Still don't like it how it is, it's hard to change it for the better though
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Thursday 18 April 2019, 02:04:37 am
I wonder if a challenge type system would be a better way to implement it tbh

1 per team, per half or something. Let's the ref/linesmen get on with their job for the most part that way too

Sounds awful imo.
How's it any worse than them checking every single thing and potentially delaying the game/stopping celebrations multiple times?

Because if someone makes a challenge which is wrong then a blatant offside is unable to be challenged it removes the whole need for var
Shouldn't waste the challenge on a correct decision then  O0

Fair enough I guess. Still don't like it how it is, it's hard to change it for the better though

I think visibility of what they are doing ( especially in ground ) will help

Think people are over egging the celebration problem- a 30 yard screamer will never need it

I’m actually glad they have gone more “all in” than just checking obvious penalties etc

Will take a lot of foul and shitty play and pulling shirts on corners etc out of the game

Think it seems to be speeding up aswel which is great , people forget that refereeing is literally s*** 99% of the time
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kaizero on Thursday 18 April 2019, 02:51:32 am
The celebration thing is bullshit anyway. Goals have been ruled out for f***ing decades. People don't wait to celebrate to check if the linesman has flagged or wait to see if the ref is gonna blow for something before celebrating. You celebrate, then you go "oh s***, f***" when/if something is amiss after.

"Linesmen flagging for offside will ruin the way fans celebrate goals as they'll have to wait and see if it's actually a goal or not!!11!!11!"

Get to f***.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ohmelads on Thursday 18 April 2019, 03:53:04 am
As if any NUFC fan doesn't want VAR.

Want us to keep getting f***ed over like? :lol:


I felt the same way when the tech first came in, but not so sure now.

When you have a top side against an also-ran, refs and video refs will still bottle it with tight calls. It's just so much easier to f*ck over the also-ran and it doesn't make headline news. If you're a ref under massive pressure, I think you're always going to be more lenient towards the top sides. Same goes for VAR. 

Whether it'll benefit us is hard to tell. We've already seen a lack of consistency with it but it's early days. It'll surely get more decisions right than refs without video do, but it's about which teams get those big calls. What makes me sceptical is that FIFA wanted this so much and they're hardly known for being above board or having the game's best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Cronky on Thursday 18 April 2019, 07:34:19 am
I still think VAR should be restricted to issues of fact, like offsides and goal-line issues, rather than opinion.

What seems to be happening with handball is it's being re-defined as an issue of fact, in order to suit VAR. The discretion on the part of officials to decide whether the offence was deliberate or avoidable seems to be going.

We're liable to end up with some long delays and, in the end, poor decisions. The Llorente goal would probably have been chalked off if the VAR staff had the right angle, but the contact was minimal and accidental.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 18 April 2019, 07:56:01 am
As if any NUFC fan doesn't want VAR.

Want us to keep getting f***ed over like? :lol:



I felt the same way when the tech first came in, but not so sure now.

When you have a top side against an also-ran, refs and video refs will still bottle it with tight calls. It's just so much easier to f*ck over the also-ran and it doesn't make headline news. If you're a ref under massive pressure, I think you're always going to be more lenient towards the top sides. Same goes for VAR. 

Whether it'll benefit us is hard to tell. We've already seen a lack of consistency with it but it's early days. It'll surely get more decisions right than refs without video do, but it's about which teams get those big calls. What makes me sceptical is that FIFA wanted this so much and they're hardly known for being above board or having the game's best interests at heart.

I’m convinced next season we will get more penalties AND the opposition will get more Red cards with VAR than they currently do.

Not exactly a risky prediction mind but :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 18 April 2019, 08:16:17 am
Milivojevic will score 30 next season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 18 April 2019, 08:48:42 am
Milivojevic will score 30 next season.

Now that definitely isn’t a risky prediction :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Village Idiot on Thursday 18 April 2019, 09:19:09 am
The Referee Committee of La Liga releases some VAR stats regularly. These are up to Game 31, so nearly the full season:

- A VAR decision has been made every 3,56 games
- 6,25% of goal decisions have been changed after checking VAR
- Average delay has been 69 seconds when the referee didn't ask to watch the replay himself, and 115 when he did
- They also estimate that the rate of right decisions made by refs in the penalty box has gone up 4,79% (to 98,24%) thanks to VAR. Given that VAR usually only gets involved in key decisions, that seems like a very positive change (note that it's the refs themselves releasing this info, so it will be skewed to make them look good).

All in all, I'm really happy with VAR, and my only issues with it are ones of procedure (what gets and doesn't get checked). Most controversy in La Liga nowadays is why this key decision wasn't reviewed by VAR, or decisions that were unclear even with VAR. But when VAR gets drawn into it, it usually provides a good decision and it's refreshingly healthy to know that refereeing errors are much less influential in the game.

The dreaded "we're going to get 3432354 penalties every game!" effect was real in the first weeks of the season, but the number of penalties has gone down to more normal levels since - whether that's players or referees adjusting I don't know, though. Probably a bit of both.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Tyne81 on Thursday 18 April 2019, 09:27:16 am
Despite originally being against VAR when it was first announced i'm now all for it. Thought the decisions last night were spot on and added a ton of drama to an already brilliant game. The world cup was a huge success partly down to it and something which England benefited from which over the years we would have missed out on. The levels of shithousery that goes on will reduce and more correct decisions should only be a good thing for the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Thursday 18 April 2019, 09:30:10 am
No way Llorrente deserves to be credited with a goal for that.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: JCONA on Thursday 18 April 2019, 10:19:11 am
I'm angry when it even f***s over teams I despise. That's how much I hate this system.

The delay is hideous and the decisions suspect
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: 1964 on Thursday 18 April 2019, 10:24:36 am
I am, perhaps optimistically, hopeful that it removes the obvious bias officials have toward the big 5 or 6 clubs.  They seem to get more decisions which the rest of the division doesn’t get.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Boo Boy on Thursday 18 April 2019, 10:47:49 am
I am massively in favour of it. we get so many absolutely appalling decisions against us that will get changed by VAR. probably get us an extra 10 points a season.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Thursday 18 April 2019, 10:51:50 am
Accidental or not while it’s not yet the law, no way on earth should a goal that goes in after hitting a player’s hand count.

Baffling as well that VAR didn’t get the angle BT Sport showed.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:06:17 am
I don't see why a goal off the hand can't count, if it's accidental or touches the hand as part of another movement. Obviously if you punch the ball in then it's not a goal.

There are going to be hundreds of dodgy handball calls next season, it'll be awful.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shearergol on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:26:54 am
I don't see why a goal off the hand can't count, if it's accidental or touches the hand as part of another movement. Obviously if you punch the ball in then it's not a goal.

There are going to be hundreds of dodgy handball calls next season, it'll be awful.

Or just make the rule that if your hand touches the ball it's no goal? Which personally I think it should be anyway.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:41:23 am
I don't see why a goal off the hand can't count, if it's accidental or touches the hand as part of another movement. Obviously if you punch the ball in then it's not a goal.

There are going to be hundreds of dodgy handball calls next season, it'll be awful.

Or just make the rule that if your hand touches the ball it's no goal? Which personally I think it should be anyway.
The rules are changing to be just that on the first of June (the day of the CL final, incidentally).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: LFEE on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:50:16 am
Accidental or not while it’s not yet the law, no way on earth should a goal that goes in after hitting a player’s hand count.

Baffling as well that VAR didn’t get the angle BT Sport showed.

But even that view showed the goal should of stood.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:51:53 am
It's funny how handball is sort of seen as the worst possible offence. I'd put it as much less of a problem as things like diving and bringing someone down through on goal. Handball's the one that seems to generate the most interest.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:55:39 am
The Referee Committee of La Liga releases some VAR stats regularly. These are up to Game 31, so nearly the full season:

- A VAR decision has been made every 3,56 games
- 6,25% of goal decisions have been changed after checking VAR
- Average delay has been 69 seconds when the referee didn't ask to watch the replay himself, and 115 when he did
- They also estimate that the rate of right decisions made by refs in the penalty box has gone up 4,79% (to 98,24%) thanks to VAR. Given that VAR usually only gets involved in key decisions, that seems like a very positive change (note that it's the refs themselves releasing this info, so it will be skewed to make them look good).

All in all, I'm really happy with VAR, and my only issues with it are ones of procedure (what gets and doesn't get checked). Most controversy in La Liga nowadays is why this key decision wasn't reviewed by VAR, or decisions that were unclear even with VAR. But when VAR gets drawn into it, it usually provides a good decision and it's refreshingly healthy to know that refereeing errors are much less influential in the game.

The dreaded "we're going to get 3432354 penalties every game!" effect was real in the first weeks of the season, but the number of penalties has gone down to more normal levels since - whether that's players or referees adjusting I don't know, though. Probably a bit of both.

Funny how Pochettino said it has been an absolute disaster in Spain and every hates it there and we shouldn’t have in our Premier League :lol:

Seeing that man benefit from it so much yesterday made me sick :anguish:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Kid Icarus on Thursday 18 April 2019, 11:58:30 am
Uh oh, sounds like we have a new entry in GE's inexplicable League of Unextraordinary Gentlemen.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 18 April 2019, 12:07:51 pm
Uh oh, sounds like we have a new entry in GE's inexplicable League of Unextraordinary Gentlemen.

I don’t mind Pochettino my only issue is he has tried to fight against improving the correct ratio of decisions.

Opposite to Guardiola who has been very much in favour of it and shown his support in trying to help improve the ratio of correct decisions :thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Thursday 18 April 2019, 12:28:06 pm
It's funny how handball is sort of seen as the worst possible offence. I'd put it as much less of a problem as things like diving and bringing someone down through on goal. Handball's the one that seems to generate the most interest.
Because handball is open to interpretation, everybody has an opinion on what the handball rule is. Its not seen as a worse offence than diving
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Thursday 18 April 2019, 12:43:25 pm
No way Llorrente deserves to be credited with a goal for that.

:serious:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thenige on Thursday 18 April 2019, 02:41:30 pm
The goal was given last night to Llorente and even in here there's no conclusive decision as to whether it should have been handball or not despite us having ages to watch numerous angles/replays etc. At the time it could only have been disallowed if it conclusively was deemed a foul.

If the goal had been disallowed and they'd overturned it, then fair enough there's an argument for the wrong decision. Think the decisions last night were the correct ones.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TRon on Thursday 18 April 2019, 03:04:20 pm
The decisions looked fair enough tbh, it was probably because everyone thought City had scored a dramatic last gasp winner which made it harder to swallow.

Much prefer VAR tbh, I don't trust referees to get it right at all, especially in our leagues.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: matta on Thursday 18 April 2019, 03:28:51 pm
I think it has been fantastic  the last CL games. Spot on.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mighty__mag on Tuesday 23 April 2019, 04:50:54 pm
I can't wait for VAR in the premier, although it slows things down a bit, I personally believe like others posting above, it will benefit the rest of the league outside the top 6. I also think after the Sterling goal vs Spurs it makes it very important. Spurs deservedly went through, but without VAR they wouldn't have.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 09:45:00 am
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: neesy111 on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 09:47:28 am
:anguish:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 10:07:51 am
We all knew it was going to happen.

VAR brought to you by Gatorade!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morpeth mag on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 10:09:54 am
VAR brought to you by Specsavers
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Sean on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 12:35:30 pm
Ugh, thats f***ing grim.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 01:50:59 pm
VAR brought to you by Specsavers
Hawkeye in GAA is sponsored by Specsavers :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Away Day Gadgie on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 01:59:04 pm
Presumably match officials would be instructed to make sure there were a minimum amount of VAR breaks in order to satisfy the exposure that sponsors are looking for?  :huff:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 02:02:28 pm
How do other sports do it? Seem to remember sponsor logos on the big screens in cricket, not sure about rugby.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: LV on Wednesday 8 May 2019, 03:16:15 pm
f*** it, let’s just not bother with the football and have a 90 min advert and be done with it.

They can just simulate the match using a computer to get the result, save us all the bother.

What an utter mess.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shelvey's Hair on Sunday 19 May 2019, 02:56:37 pm
Some rule changes to League as well.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premier-league-rule-changes-next-16298032

Handballs

The IFAB has clarified the situation in regards to handball decisions ahead of next season.

Goals will be disallowed if the ball accidentally strikes a player's hand in the build-up.

A free-kick will also be awarded outside of the penalty box if a player has accidentally created an advantage by handling the ball.

Drop balls

The IFAB has also had its say on drop balls and is aiming to get rid of 'manufactured' restarts.

"The current dropped ball procedure often leads to a ‘manufactured’ restart which is ‘exploited’ unfairly or an aggressive confrontation," the IFAB explained.

"Returning the ball to the team that last played it restores what was ‘lost’ when play was stopped, except in the penalty area where it is simpler to return the ball to the goalkeeper.

"To prevent that team gaining an unfair advantage, all players of both teams, except the player receiving the ball, must be at least 4m (4.5 yds) away."

Substitutions

Another rule which has been introduced for next season sees some major alterations to substitutions.

Now players will have to leave the pitch at the nearest point rather than walk slowly across the field late in games and waste time.

Freekicks

Attacking teams will no longer be allowed to have a player in the defensive wall for a free-kick.

When there is a wall of at least three players, those on the attacking team are not allowed to stand within one metre of the wall.

"There is no legitimate tactical justification for attackers to be in the ‘wall’ and their presence is against the ‘spirit of the game’ and often damages the image of the game," an IFAB statement explained.

Penalty kicks

This has certainly been overdue with goalkeepers taking advantage on penalty situations for a while now.

But from next season they will have to have one foot on the line.

Not only must keepers be touching the line, they will not be allowed to touch the goalposts before the ball is kicked.
Cards for coaches

Premier League referees will now be able to show them a yellow card or a red card in the same way they do with players on the pitch.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 19 May 2019, 05:11:02 pm
"There is no legitimate tactical justification for attackers to be in the ‘wall’

Isn’t it so you can peel away and create a little gap? Why are the attacking team being penalised?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: HaydnNUFC on Sunday 19 May 2019, 05:55:15 pm
"There is no legitimate tactical justification for attackers to be in the ‘wall’

Isn’t it so you can peel away and create a little gap? Why are the attacking team being penalised?

Apparently for fouls through pushing the defenders in the wall. I can't remember any instances of such fouls myself but that's what I've heard that the change is for.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Optimistic Nut on Sunday 19 May 2019, 05:59:07 pm
Shearer’s free-kick at Man U in the 5-3 would probably be disallowed for a foul by Jenas now.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: madras on Sunday 19 May 2019, 06:01:57 pm
"There is no legitimate tactical justification for attackers to be in the ‘wall’

Isn’t it so you can peel away and create a little gap? Why are the attacking team being penalised?

Apparently for fouls through pushing the defenders in the wall. I can't remember any instances of such fouls myself but that's what I've heard that the change is for.
Tedfy Sheringham was a master in the art of pulling the last man in the wall away to create a gap.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 19 May 2019, 10:14:57 pm
Changing the rules to make life easier for the VAR people. No more ambiguity with handballs, if it hits a hand, and it can be seen on camera it's a handball.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: alijmitchell on Sunday 19 May 2019, 10:30:26 pm
Changing the rules to make life easier for the VAR people. No more ambiguity with handballs, if it hits a hand, and it can be seen on camera it's a handball.

So are we saying that intention doesn't matter at all? I guess there is a good argument for that (since it's extremely hard to judge), but it sets a bit of a precedent that whether you intend to commit any foul or not, all that matters is whether or not a foul was committed. Implications being - diving/gamesmanship, violent conduct, the difference between a yellow and red card challenge, bringing someone down on the break (accidentally or not)...
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Sunday 19 May 2019, 10:52:08 pm
Be way too many games decided by penalties if we start giving unintentional hand balls too.

Crystal Penalty Fc already win enough matches via penalties than to have a rule change that will give them even more.

Last thing Newcastle want is it to become a penalty league table we’d get relegated every year :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Monday 20 May 2019, 12:44:41 am
Probably not footballers operating the system, so they won't have a clue about intent. It's a technical solution seeking technical confirmation.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 20 May 2019, 01:22:36 am
:lol: it can't be any handball is a foul man, you would have attackers deliberately kicking the ball at defenders arms to win a penalty if that's the case.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Monday 20 May 2019, 05:40:10 am
VAR brought to you by Specsavers

:lol: very good
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Shelvey's Hair on Monday 20 May 2019, 07:49:17 am
:lol: it can't be any handball is a foul man, you would have attackers deliberately kicking the ball at defenders arms to win a penalty if that's the case.

I think it just applies to attackers and whoever tries to seek an advanage from it.

"Goals will be disallowed if the ball accidentally strikes a player's hand in the build-up."


"A free-kick will also be awarded outside of the penalty box if a player has accidentally created an advantage by handling the ball."

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 20 May 2019, 10:26:59 am
I thought goalkeepers already had to have one foot on the line when the penalty is struck?

Not that they ever enforce it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 20 May 2019, 10:43:42 am
Can’t wait for Andre Marriner to book Rafa Benitez next season for giving him a thumbs up from the touchline :lol:

Mike Dean is going to absolutely have his way with that cards for manager rule.

Bet that rule was thought up by him.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 10:39:10 pm
Every syllable is bang on.

https://www.football365.com/news/on-the-scourge-of-var-football-should-be-poetry-not-mathematics
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 10:53:08 pm
 :lol: mathematics ffs, it's just about trying to get more right decisions than without it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:19:50 pm
Did you even read it?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:24:44 pm
Unfortunately yes, utter mawkish bollocks.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:26:05 pm
I take it you're content to extend VAR to every single thing that happens on the pitch? As the article points out, being pro-VAR and not wanting that to happen is preposterous and inherently contradictory because in football, every decision is potentially as big as every other one.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:27:09 pm
Every syllable is bang on.

https://www.football365.com/news/on-the-scourge-of-var-football-should-be-poetry-not-mathematics

Writes a lot of good stuff.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:28:04 pm
Every syllable is bang on.

https://www.football365.com/news/on-the-scourge-of-var-football-should-be-poetry-not-mathematics

Absolute horseshit article. I will never understand people that think refereeing errors somehow add to the game and experience.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:35:42 pm
I will never understand how anyone thinks standing around waiting for someone hundreds of miles away to watch a video of where somebody's toenail was adds to the game or experience. As he says, it's very much a personal thing. I already liked football enough before this total nonsense was introduced.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:36:02 pm
I take it you're content to extend VAR to every single thing that happens on the pitch? As the article points out, being pro-VAR and not wanting that to happen is preposterous and inherently contradictory because in football, every decision is potentially as big as every other one.

Erm no, that's why it's only been brought in for the bigger moments.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:37:58 pm
I will never understand how anyone thinks standing around waiting for someone hundreds of miles away to watch a video of where somebody's toenail was adds to the game or experience. As he says, it's very much a personal thing. I already liked football enough before this total nonsense was introduced.

We get it, you are prepared to put up with wrong decisions, to me that is just batshit crazy, especially as an NUFC fan.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:38:15 pm
There are no "bigger moments" in football. A foul not given 2 minutes ago in the centre circle is as big a moment as any if it leads to a goal. Every kick affects every other.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:38:51 pm
I will never understand how anyone thinks standing around waiting for someone hundreds of miles away to watch a video of where somebody's toenail was adds to the game or experience. As he says, it's very much a personal thing. I already liked football enough before this total nonsense was introduced.

We get it, you are prepared to put up with wrong decisions, to me that is just batshit crazy, especially as an NUFC fan.

I'm lost, did NUFC invent it or something?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thomas on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:40:38 pm
:lol: we've seemed to have a monopoly on the s*** for a decade or so tbh


Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:42:09 pm
Steve Parish Crystal Penalty F.C. chairman is “Worried” there might be even more penalties next season due to the handball rule :spit:

What so everyone else might get as many as you always do Steve? :azn:

Sounds like a man that is worried about a more even playing field next season haha.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:43:52 pm
There are no "bigger moments" in football. A foul not given 2 minutes ago in the centre circle is as big a moment as any if it leads to a goal. Every kick affects every other.

:yao: howay mate.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:46:41 pm
There are no "bigger moments" in football. A foul not given 2 minutes ago in the centre circle is as big a moment as any if it leads to a goal. Every kick affects every other.

That's just pedantic. There are numerous sports where the replay is integrated well and it's not used for everything.

Football should have got rid of the 90 minute continuous clock ages ago and instead use a 60 minute clock that would stop whenever the ball is not in play. Would get rid of so much time wasting and unnecessary controversy. People also wouldn't be so much against VAR for stopping the play for a minute or two.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:49:19 pm
What other sports is it used in that are as fluid as football?

What part of this statement can possibly be argued with?

"When a goal is ruled out for offside by VAR but another goal is allowed because the contravention of a law happened in a phase not checked by VAR, the game’s result is actually distorted more by the technology, not made more correct. It is, in effect, an inherently contradictory model unless it is used for all decisions wherever and whenever they happen on the pitch or in the game, just to make sure they are right because any mistakes at all will affect the game. It cannot be otherwise."

Getting rid of the clock is a f***ing daft idea as well, would encourage shithouse behaviour but without the current sanction of a "timewasting" card. I don't understand all these people who seem to hate football as it has existed for over a hundred years, absolutely desperate to change the rules fundamentally to suit the way they want the game to be, really weird.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:51:56 pm
What other sports is it used in that are as fluid as football?

Rugby league.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:58:18 pm
What other sports is it used in that are as fluid as football?

Rugby league.

f***ing Rugby League. :lol: A game where the teams take turns to attack and defend is "as fluid as football." Must be why it's so popular. I'm off to bed.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:59:37 pm
Me when we get over 10+ penalties next season like Crystal Palace always get every season to win matches :fwap:

Also me when we get the amount of penalties Bournemouth and Palace get to win matches :fwap:

Also me when the opposition get more Red cards against us than they have since 2013(1) :fwap:

Bring VAR on man at least we’ll finally get more penalties and the opposition will get more Red cards than they usually do every season.

Bring it on :indi:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Monday 10 June 2019, 11:59:49 pm
I don't understand all these people who seem to hate football as it has existed for over a hundred years, absolutely desperate to change the rules fundamentally to suit the way they want the game to be, really weird.

Because trying to improve something doesn't mean you hated it. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:01:40 am
What other sports is it used in that are as fluid as football?

Rugby league.

f***ing Rugby League. :lol: A game where the teams take turns to attack and defend is "as fluid as football." Must be why it's so popular. I'm off to bed.

Ball (egg) is probably in play more than football.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:02:09 am
Oh I get it now, you mentioned Newcastle United because everyone hates the club and don't give us any penalties. Yes we should definitely change the game forever because of your bizarre paranoia.

What if the people in your little cupboard hate NUFC too? Why wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:04:21 am
You are having a bit of a mare here Wullie :lol:

Neet.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:12:08 am
Oh I get it now, you mentioned Newcastle United because everyone hates the club and don't give us any penalties. Yes we should definitely change the game forever because of your bizarre paranoia.

What if the people in your little cupboard hate NUFC too? Why wouldn't they?

Next season with VAR we will get more penalties and the opposition will get more Red cards than the last 2 seasons put together.

You can quote me on it :thup:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Yorkie on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:12:31 am
There are no "bigger moments" in football. A foul not given 2 minutes ago in the centre circle is as big a moment as any if it leads to a goal. Every kick affects every other.

That's just pedantic. There are numerous sports where the replay is integrated well and it's not used for everything.

Football should have got rid of the 90 minute continuous clock ages ago and instead use a 60 minute clock that would stop whenever the ball is not in play. Would get rid of so much time wasting and unnecessary controversy. People also wouldn't be so much against VAR for stopping the play for a minute or two.

:thup: It's about time they introduced another ball to the field, too. And walls.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:17:16 am
:lol:

Love the theory of VAR.

Cannot see a version of it that I think would be acceptable in the game. It actively detracts from the enjoyment of the game. Right decision or not. Which is often still debatable.

Technology needs to come a long way for me not to hate it. The only thing I think they could feasibly do anytime soon is have offside be adjudged by a robot lino. Other than that, nee chance VAR can be implemented in a manner that isn't tiresome as f***.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:24:24 am
Oh I get it now, you mentioned Newcastle United because everyone hates the club and don't give us any penalties. Yes we should definitely change the game forever because of your bizarre paranoia.

What if the people in your little cupboard hate NUFC too? Why wouldn't they?

Next season with VAR we will get more penalties and the opposition will get more Red cards than the last 2 seasons put together.

You can quote me on it :thup:

I think discussing a core rule change to the game with people whose main criteria is whether it specifically benefits their team or not is one of the more pointless exchanges I've had on here in fifteen years. Might as well discuss whether or not we should automatically disallow any goal scored past a Slovakian goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:41:54 am
There are no "bigger moments" in football. A foul not given 2 minutes ago in the centre circle is as big a moment as any if it leads to a goal. Every kick affects every other.

That's just pedantic. There are numerous sports where the replay is integrated well and it's not used for everything.

Football should have got rid of the 90 minute continuous clock ages ago and instead use a 60 minute clock that would stop whenever the ball is not in play. Would get rid of so much time wasting and unnecessary controversy. People also wouldn't be so much against VAR for stopping the play for a minute or two.

:thup: It's about time they introduced another ball to the field, too. And walls.

https://talksport.com/football/315919/average-ball-play-time-each-premier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506/

:lol: Tell me one positive thing about the current 90 minute continuous clock that isn't "that's how they decided it to be in the 1880s". I also have trouble seeing how it would encourage shithousery.

I really love wondering about how much added time there will be and at which point the ref decides to blow the whistle, then complain about it in the match thread. Part of the charm of the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thomas on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:43:37 am
Immediately assert that people who would just like to see fewer refereeing errors are somehow being unpoetic and also in favor of VAR of every second of the game. It's no more "the logical conclusion" to being in favor of VAR than saying the death penalty for shoplifting is the logical conclusion for people who want to see crime punished. :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:45:35 am
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40993250

Quote
A 90-minute match but only 47 minutes and 40 seconds of actual football.

At Turf Moor on Saturday, Burnley and West Brom played out a game in which the ball was in play for only 160 seconds more than it was out.

Though these are early days, no Premier League match so far this season has seen less action.

Two months ago, football's lawmakers revealed they were considering scrapping 45-minute halves, instead introducing two periods of 30 minutes, during which the clock would be stopped every time the ball went out.

The proposal, the International Football Association Board said, was one of a number of options to deter football's "negativities".

So would the rule have benefited supporters at Premier League matches so far this season? In a word, yes.

Of 19 top-flight games across the opening two weekends of the campaign, the ball has been in play for more than an hour in only two of them.

And no game has featured more than 61 minutes of play.

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Dr.Spaceman on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:46:53 am
Just because a load of people love to whinge about something, doesn't make it a good thing.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 12:57:00 am
Oh I get it now, you mentioned Newcastle United because everyone hates the club and don't give us any penalties. Yes we should definitely change the game forever because of your bizarre paranoia.

What if the people in your little cupboard hate NUFC too? Why wouldn't they?

Next season with VAR we will get more penalties and the opposition will get more Red cards than the last 2 seasons put together.

You can quote me on it :thup:

I think discussing a core rule change to the game with people whose main criteria is whether it specifically benefits their team or not is one of the more pointless exchanges I've had on here in fifteen years. Might as well discuss whether or not we should automatically disallow any goal scored past a Slovakian goalkeeper.

No disallowing it becuase they saw they had their arms(Boly) around his neck will be nice though :thup:

You know giving the Ref the best possible view to decide if it was a fair goal or not?

Wonder why Nuno Santo doesn’t want VAR :shifty:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ohmelads on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 01:01:47 am
I like the idea of VAR. We've got a great game administered by corrupt organisations and poor officials.

The problem is VAR is administered by the same corrupt organisations and poor officials. With regards to Newcastle, let's wait and see. This could go either way.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 07:37:11 am
Oh I get it now, you mentioned Newcastle United because everyone hates the club and don't give us any penalties. Yes we should definitely change the game forever because of your bizarre paranoia.

What if the people in your little cupboard hate NUFC too? Why wouldn't they?

Next season with VAR we will get more penalties and the opposition will get more Red cards than the last 2 seasons put together.

You can quote me on it :thup:

I think discussing a core rule change to the game with people whose main criteria is whether it specifically benefits their team or not is one of the more pointless exchanges I've had on here in fifteen years. Might as well discuss whether or not we should automatically disallow any goal scored past a Slovakian goalkeeper.

No disallowing it becuase they saw they had their arms(Boly) around his neck will be nice though :thup:

You know giving the Ref the best possible view to decide if it was a fair goal or not?

Wonder why Nuno Santo doesn’t want VAR :shifty:

Didn' all the experts pundits say it was a goal, that Dubs was at fault?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TheNE40 on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 09:43:38 am
The problem with VAR is the timing - like in the England v Holland game it takes too long to reach these decisions, and the procedure is currently communicated very poorly to spectators in the stadium and the viewers at home (we never got a full replay of the actual incident until after full time). This along with the very hardline handball directives that will be in play next season will mean there'll be a lot of penalties given (like in the UCL final) that are very harsh (but by the letter of the law are handballs). It'll cause its fair share of drama, I just hope it doesn't leave a sour taste in the mouth for everyone.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 03:38:15 pm
The NBA is frenetic, end to end and pretty fluid as a sport, and they use video to consult on important calls. I've been watching almost every single game of the playoffs and hasn't impeded my or any other fans' enjoyment, as far as I know. Of course, I don't know the history about how this was introduced, implemented, etc., maybe some other basketball followers can chime in.

I'm fully #TeamVAR anyways as I've been used to it in other sports I watched growing up (tennis, cricket, etc.), but I do understand some of the reservations with how it's going to be rolled out in football -- there also doesn't seem to be a coherent plan around it, in typical FA, UEFA, FIFA fashion. The initial pains will be rough but if they're willing to listen and change the process based on fans' and experts' advice as it's slowly implemented, I can see it evolving into a seamless thing in a few years.

Of course, nothing will get the naysayers on-side, and that's okay too.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 03:39:53 pm
It's absolutely f***ing miserable in basketball man :lol: It takes them forever and then they have to f*** around with the clock as well.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: DJ_NUFC on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 03:41:26 pm
It's absolutely f***ing miserable in basketball man :lol: It takes them forever and then they have to f*** around with the clock as well.

When was it introduced? And have they taken steps to address this criticism? One thing I don't like is how long it takes, you're right, and you only see the two officials huddled around a monitor. Again, it didn't really affect my overall excitement of the game, it was a minor stoppage in play. In football, especially, watching teams like Stoke comes with far more stoppages and pain.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 04:42:34 pm
It's absolutely f***ing miserable in basketball man :lol: It takes them forever and then they have to f*** around with the clock as well.

When was it introduced? And have they taken steps to address this criticism? One thing I don't like is how long it takes, you're right, and you only see the two officials huddled around a monitor. Again, it didn't really affect my overall excitement of the game, it was a minor stoppage in play. In football, especially, watching teams like Stoke comes with far more stoppages and pain.

I would say that the major difference is the importance of a goal in football vs scoring in basketball. The feeling of celebrating a goal in football really isn't mimicked in basketball unless you're in buzzer beater territory, at which point the VAR/stare at the monitor process is a little more palatable anyway. VAR in it's current implementation robs the fans of really feeling that rush after their team scores. Whether it's chalked off or not.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Teasy on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 07:34:04 pm
I like the idea of VAR. We've got a great game administered by corrupt organisations and poor officials.

The problem is VAR is administered by the same corrupt organisations and poor officials. With regards to Newcastle, let's wait and see. This could go either way.

Officials will always get things wrong, or at least do things people disagree with.  Its rare people agree on here or anywhere else after seeing incidents many times over.  At least VAR removes the "ref didn't see it/was in a bad position" excuse.  It should also improve in how its used given time as well, so I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Teasy on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 07:38:13 pm
It's absolutely f***ing miserable in basketball man :lol: It takes them forever and then they have to f*** around with the clock as well.

When was it introduced? And have they taken steps to address this criticism? One thing I don't like is how long it takes, you're right, and you only see the two officials huddled around a monitor. Again, it didn't really affect my overall excitement of the game, it was a minor stoppage in play. In football, especially, watching teams like Stoke comes with far more stoppages and pain.

I would say that the major difference is the importance of a goal in football vs scoring in basketball. The feeling of celebrating a goal in football really isn't mimicked in basketball unless you're in buzzer beater territory, at which point the VAR/stare at the monitor process is a little more palatable anyway. VAR in it's current implementation robs the fans of really feeling that rush after their team scores. Whether it's chalked off or not.

I never feel that rush about us scoring in the moment even without VAR, because I always expect our goals to be disallowed.  I mean even our penalties get f***ing disallowed after we score FFS!
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Segun Oluwaniyi on Tuesday 11 June 2019, 08:08:42 pm
It's absolutely f***ing miserable in basketball man :lol: It takes them forever and then they have to f*** around with the clock as well.

When was it introduced? And have they taken steps to address this criticism? One thing I don't like is how long it takes, you're right, and you only see the two officials huddled around a monitor. Again, it didn't really affect my overall excitement of the game, it was a minor stoppage in play. In football, especially, watching teams like Stoke comes with far more stoppages and pain.
To echo the previous comment, review in basketball is awful. The delays take far too long for fairly unimportant decisions, and just like football we are now stuck with reviewing the intent of someone's arm position when they are quickly moving in tight areas or zooming in to molecular level to see if the ball clipped someone's fingertip, well beyond anything the naked eye could interpret. They limit a lot of this to the last two minutes of the game or half, just to limit the annoyance of seeing a 47 year old part-time worker from Baton Rouge, Louisiana attempt to decipher how many tenths of a second are left, whether a small part of the ball was still in the cylinder, and other minutiae of a game that is played a very high speed. The quality and fairness of officiating has also not improved with review, imo.

Basketball and football are both games that are primarily enjoyable to watch and play because of the free-flowing and creative nature of the games. Review interruptions are more harmful here than other sports.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Raconteur on Wednesday 12 June 2019, 08:31:46 am
:lol:

Love the theory of VAR.

Cannot see a version of it that I think would be acceptable in the game. It actively detracts from the enjoyment of the game. Right decision or not. Which is often still debatable.

Technology needs to come a long way for me not to hate it. The only thing I think they could feasibly do anytime soon is have offside be adjudged by a robot lino. Other than that, nee chance VAR can be implemented in a manner that isn't tiresome as f***.

This is the start and the finish of it for me, really. Nice idea, pity it can't be involved in a practical way that doesn't diminish the sport as a spectacle.

I've also seen how terrible VAR can be when the most awful version of it was implemented in the Australian A-League.

As for the continuous clock, I often compare the play (i.e. tactics and movement) of Australian Football to real football to outsiders, and they stop the clock in a way that positively effects the play. It's certainly a more fair comparison than league, which is about as stop-start as sport gets. Does Gaelic football use a continuous, or stopped, clock?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 12 June 2019, 09:53:46 am
:lol:

Love the theory of VAR.

Cannot see a version of it that I think would be acceptable in the game. It actively detracts from the enjoyment of the game. Right decision or not. Which is often still debatable.

Technology needs to come a long way for me not to hate it. The only thing I think they could feasibly do anytime soon is have offside be adjudged by a robot lino. Other than that, nee chance VAR can be implemented in a manner that isn't tiresome as f***.

This is the start and the finish of it for me, really. Nice idea, pity it can't be involved in a practical way that doesn't diminish the sport as a spectacle.

I've also seen how terrible VAR can be when the most awful version of it was implemented in the Australian A-League.

As for the continuous clock, I often compare the play (i.e. tactics and movement) of Australian Football to real football to outsiders, and they stop the clock in a way that positively effects the play. It's certainly a more fair comparison than league, which is about as stop-start as sport gets. Does Gaelic football use a continuous, or stopped, clock?
Continuous. My issue with a stopped clock is that I think it would lead to longer stoppages as there isn't the need to get it back started as quickly as possible
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Raconteur on Wednesday 12 June 2019, 10:03:06 am

Continuous. My issue with a stopped clock is that I think it would lead to longer stoppages as there isn't the need to get it back started as quickly as possible

In AFL there is a "shot clock" for what is (I guess) the equivalent of free kicks (which could also be applied to throw ins).

I'm not all-in for a stopped clock, and I can't see FIFA or UEFA ever going for it, just saying there is a comparable sport that works in a way that could be translated to football
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 11:07:37 am
So yesterday, France got to retake a missed penalty because the Nigerian keeper was an inch off her line thanks to VAR. However, on the retake, a French player encroached by a yard but it wasn't retaken (or given a free kick to Nigeria, as would be the Championship protocol). Glad that VAR is making things fair, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the host nation gets the advantage here.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: LFEE on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 11:58:22 am
So yesterday, France got to retake a missed penalty because the Nigerian keeper was an inch off her line thanks to VAR. However, on the retake, a French player encroached by a yard but it wasn't retaken (or given a free kick to Nigeria, as would be the Championship protocol). Glad that VAR is making things fair, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the host nation gets the advantage here.

Not only that but the first penalty wasn’t saved it actually missed the target.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 01:19:04 pm
So yesterday, France got to retake a missed penalty because the Nigerian keeper was an inch off her line thanks to VAR. However, on the retake, a French player encroached by a yard but it wasn't retaken (or given a free kick to Nigeria, as would be the Championship protocol). Glad that VAR is making things fair, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the host nation gets the advantage here.

On average it is :thup:

Impossible for VAR to get everything right with the stupidity of some of the Refs using it.

VAR is all about improving the ratio which it is thankfully.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Nobody on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 01:54:55 pm
So yesterday, France got to retake a missed penalty because the Nigerian keeper was an inch off her line thanks to VAR. However, on the retake, a French player encroached by a yard but it wasn't retaken (or given a free kick to Nigeria, as would be the Championship protocol). Glad that VAR is making things fair, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the host nation gets the advantage here.

On average it is :thup:

Impossible for VAR to get everything right with the stupidity of some of the Refs using it.

VAR is all about improving the ratio which it is thankfully.
As long as it benefits the right team
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Johneddy on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 02:05:22 pm
So yesterday, France got to retake a missed penalty because the Nigerian keeper was an inch off her line thanks to VAR. However, on the retake, a French player encroached by a yard but it wasn't retaken (or given a free kick to Nigeria, as would be the Championship protocol). Glad that VAR is making things fair, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the host nation gets the advantage here.

On average it is :thup:

Impossible for VAR to get everything right with the stupidity of some of the Refs using it.

VAR is all about improving the ratio which it is thankfully.

I agree and even 'when' it pisses us off royally next season if it was a correct decision we can live with losing the odd goal knowing it has happened to Liverpool and City too. Our home game against Liverpool was in fact 2-2 and maybe next year VAR helps the small teams live with the biggies.

How many goals would Manure have lost in this last 30 years with VAR - a damn site more than most due to Fergies intimidation etc.

More penalties next season though I reckon...watch what you're doing in your own box...The Hills Have Eyes.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Tuesday 18 June 2019, 02:11:19 pm
Just seen the penalty in the France Nigeria game. :mackems:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: chopey on Tuesday 2 July 2019, 10:21:36 pm
So linesmen are just there to check subs studs now then ?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Wednesday 3 July 2019, 01:10:26 am
So linesmen are just there to check subs studs now then ?

What aboot throws.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Wednesday 3 July 2019, 02:59:32 am
So linesmen are just there to check subs studs now then ?

What aboot throws.

Why should we risk these vile human inaccuracies?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Wednesday 3 July 2019, 11:08:22 am
So, just when we might get a few fairer decisions, nothing even matters anyway :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: chopey on Saturday 6 July 2019, 04:42:42 pm
It takes the spontaneous celebration away from goals a lot more than I thought it would
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TaylorJ_01 on Saturday 6 July 2019, 06:20:24 pm
Oh well, another reason not to watch football anymore.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Saturday 6 July 2019, 07:24:50 pm
It takes the spontaneous celebration away from goals a lot more than I thought it would

Yeah players can’t celebrate anymore :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: joeyt on Saturday 6 July 2019, 07:32:47 pm
It takes the spontaneous celebration away from goals a lot more than I thought it would

Yeah players can’t celebrate anymore :rolleyes:

That's not what he said
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TooonDoom on Saturday 6 July 2019, 07:36:38 pm
It takes the spontaneous celebration away from goals a lot more than I thought it would

Yeah it’s the glance at the linesman * 100
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 8 July 2019, 12:42:32 pm
Mike Riley.
I actually think handball is in a really good place in this country, and that's the message that we get from all the clubs - from the managers and the players - when we go and talk to them.”

”We have a philosophy that says we want handball to be something that has an impact on the game.”

Can’t wait for VAR to be blamed for harsh handballs :laugh:

Handballs need to have less of an impact not more.

I’d like to see handballs be indirect free kicks unless it’s a clear case of deliberate/moving of the arm to hand ball/stop the ball in the penalty area.

Someone deliberately moving their arm to stop the ball in the area(Penalty) compared to someone having the ball strike their arm(Indirect free kick) = Less harsh handball penalties.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pata on Monday 8 July 2019, 06:01:29 pm
I'm pretty sure you have understood that wrong.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Monday 8 July 2019, 07:34:36 pm
It takes the spontaneous celebration away from goals a lot more than I thought it would

Yeah it’s the glance at the linesman * 100

:thup:

Super robot future VAR will be great. I'll love that s***.

Current VAR sucks all the enjoyment out of the game.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: D. Yimentov on Monday 8 July 2019, 07:39:48 pm
I'd rather just go back to the days of gross incompetence and not being allowed to get penalties at Anfield and Old Trafford.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Monday 8 July 2019, 07:54:06 pm
I'd rather just go back to the days of gross incompetence and not being allowed to get penalties at Anfield and Old Trafford.

I reckon 2019/2020 will be right up your alley
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 8 July 2019, 08:35:16 pm
I'd rather just go back to the days of gross incompetence and not being allowed to get penalties at Anfield and Old Trafford.

I reckon 2019/2020 will be right up your alley

Nope the opposite :smug:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Monday 8 July 2019, 09:26:58 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/rCQO1X9.jpg)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Monday 15 July 2019, 07:45:00 pm
Mike Riley.
I actually think handball is in a really good place in this country, and that's the message that we get from all the clubs - from the managers and the players - when we go and talk to them.”

”We have a philosophy that says we want handball to be something that has an impact on the game.”

Can’t wait for VAR to be blamed for harsh handballs :laugh:

Handballs need to have less of an impact not more.

I’d like to see handballs be indirect free kicks unless it’s a clear case of deliberate/moving of the arm to hand ball/stop the ball in the penalty area.

Someone deliberately moving their arm to stop the ball in the area(Penalty) compared to someone having the ball strike their arm(Indirect free kick) = Less harsh handball penalties.

Sources close to the IFAB say directives on the new handball law are to make NO distinction as to how the ball came to hit a hand/arm. Even if deflected on to it. Or apparently blasted against. If the arm makes the body larger (as it does) that is penalised.

Hmm.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Monday 15 July 2019, 07:49:46 pm
Another reason I’m glad I won’t be watching matches.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: loki679 on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 04:37:02 am
Mike Riley.
I actually think handball is in a really good place in this country, and that's the message that we get from all the clubs - from the managers and the players - when we go and talk to them.”

”We have a philosophy that says we want handball to be something that has an impact on the game.”

Can’t wait for VAR to be blamed for harsh handballs :laugh:

Handballs need to have less of an impact not more.

I’d like to see handballs be indirect free kicks unless it’s a clear case of deliberate/moving of the arm to hand ball/stop the ball in the penalty area.

Someone deliberately moving their arm to stop the ball in the area(Penalty) compared to someone having the ball strike their arm(Indirect free kick) = Less harsh handball penalties.

Sources close to the IFAB say directives on the new handball law are to make NO distinction as to how the ball came to hit a hand/arm. Even if deflected on to it. Or apparently blasted against. If the arm makes the body larger (as it does) that is penalised.

Hmm.

This is gonna be really dumb, attackers are going to be trying to deliberately play the ball off a defenders arm.  What the hell is going to happen to defenders in the wall at free kicks too?  Some choice, defend your balls and give away a penalty or potentially take one in the nards.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 05:28:05 am
Mike Riley.
I actually think handball is in a really good place in this country, and that's the message that we get from all the clubs - from the managers and the players - when we go and talk to them.”

”We have a philosophy that says we want handball to be something that has an impact on the game.”

Can’t wait for VAR to be blamed for harsh handballs :laugh:

Handballs need to have less of an impact not more.

I’d like to see handballs be indirect free kicks unless it’s a clear case of deliberate/moving of the arm to hand ball/stop the ball in the penalty area.

Someone deliberately moving their arm to stop the ball in the area(Penalty) compared to someone having the ball strike their arm(Indirect free kick) = Less harsh handball penalties.

Sources close to the IFAB say directives on the new handball law are to make NO distinction as to how the ball came to hit a hand/arm. Even if deflected on to it. Or apparently blasted against. If the arm makes the body larger (as it does) that is penalised.

Hmm.

This is gonna be really dumb, attackers are going to be trying to deliberately play the ball off a defenders arm.  What the hell is going to happen to defenders in the wall at free kicks too?  Some choice, defend your balls and give away a penalty or potentially take one in the nards.

Clearly the focus on Women's football has muddied their thinking.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: ToonArmy1892 on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 09:34:22 am
Watch us get loads of favourable decisions this season now we don't want them.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: BergenMagpie on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 09:41:05 am
Imagine having Perez for loads of years where he couldnt even get a penalty after being elbowed by Boly, then selling him in the transfer window before VAR is introduced  :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Raconteur on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 09:53:25 am
Imagine having Perez for loads of years where he couldnt even get a penalty after being elbowed by Boly, then selling him in the transfer window before VAR is introduced  :lol:

He gets kicked to bits and knows how to fall over - Leicester might rival Palace for pens :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Tuesday 16 July 2019, 12:01:12 pm
Imagine having Perez for loads of years where he couldnt even get a penalty after being elbowed by Boly, then selling him in the transfer window before VAR is introduced  :lol:

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Bimpy474 on Thursday 18 July 2019, 12:52:20 am
Watching Atlético Mineiro v Cruzeiro and Cruzeiro just broke to score, after five minutes of mayhem VARS has shown an iffy foul by Cruzeiro as they broke, goal ruled out and a free kick to Mineiro just outside Cruzeiro's box.

Utter mayhem  :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Thursday 18 July 2019, 12:56:51 am
Watching Atlético Mineiro v Cruzeiro and Cruzeiro just broke to score, after five minutes of mayhem VARS has shown an iffy foul by Cruzeiro as they broke, goal ruled out and a free kick to Mineiro just outside Cruzeiro's box.

Utter mayhem  :lol:


Massive derby n all. Trouble?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Bimpy474 on Thursday 18 July 2019, 01:01:13 am
Watching Atlético Mineiro v Cruzeiro and Cruzeiro just broke to score, after five minutes of mayhem VARS has shown an iffy foul by Cruzeiro as they broke, goal ruled out and a free kick to Mineiro just outside Cruzeiro's box.

Utter mayhem  :lol:


Massive derby n all. Trouble?

Just s**** loads of handbags, ref totally lost it, not that it looked easy to control tbf.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TheNE40 on Friday 19 July 2019, 01:29:08 pm
It'll definitely take a very long time for it to bed in and to be accepted by everyone. Problem is fans will no longer want to celebrate goals (or anything else) for fear that it can easily be ruled out / taken away by VAR. Whilst it will get the correct decision 99.9% of the time, it'll take the drama out of the situations and ultimately I fear the viewing experience could suffer.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: SEMTEX on Friday 19 July 2019, 01:34:59 pm
:thup: Current version of this s*** makes the game less enjoyable. That's all I really care about.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Friday 19 July 2019, 01:56:26 pm
I just can't believe how VAR has managed to be implemented so badly.  DRS in cricket has been wildly successful. TMO in Rugby has worked wonderfully. Reviews in Tennis are fantastic.

But somehow, video refs in football has become a referee looking at a screen under a blanket and then making a completely unaccountable decision based on his/her interpretation of the rules.

Almost every other sport updates its laws to counter tactical developments that harm the game.  But still, football refuses to change it's rules (beyond tinkering around the edges).  The fundamental problem is that rulings on fouls are completely down to referees' interpretations because that's how the rules are written.  I would propose a couple of things could fix this:

1.  Re-write the rules on fouls.  New rules is that is one of three conclusions have been reached. A - the attacking player has slipped or accidentally fallen over, ruling - play on/drop ball to restart. B - attacking player has exaggerated contact, ruling - yellow card for attacking player, free kick for defending team. C - defending player has physically impeded attacking player in a manner that is not intended to play the ball itself, ruling - free kick/penalty for attacking player, yellow/red card as necessary.  Notice that the word contact does not appear here anywhere.  Contact is completely irrelevant.  It's all about the players' intent.  If they intend to unfairly influence the outcome of the game, then they are penalised.

2.  All refs, linesmen and 4th refs wear microphones.  Video decisions are decided by a 5th ref that sits away from the pitch i.e. the ref refers decisions and takes advice.  This conversation is all broadcast so the world can hear it.  This gives transparency and stops corrupt decisions from referees.  Also, bad language/abuse directed towards the referee is an instant red card.  This stops the world hearing Wayne Rooney call the ref a c*** for the 90th time every game.

Doubt any of this would happen though, it's in FIFA/UEFA/FAs' interests to be able to manage results through referees to suit their agenda.  Bent as f***.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: joeyt on Friday 19 July 2019, 02:08:17 pm
Comparing it to cricket and tennis isnt the best because they're a lot less fluid of a sport than football.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Friday 19 July 2019, 02:11:07 pm
I just can't believe how VAR has managed to be implemented so badly.  DRS in cricket has been wildly successful. TMO in Rugby has worked wonderfully. Reviews in Tennis are fantastic.

But somehow, video refs in football has become a referee looking at a screen under a blanket and then making a completely unaccountable decision based on his/her interpretation of the rules.

Almost every other sport updates its laws to counter tactical developments that harm the game.  But still, football refuses to change it's rules (beyond tinkering around the edges).  The fundamental problem is that rulings on fouls are completely down to referees' interpretations because that's how the rules are written.  I would propose a couple of things could fix this:

1.  Re-write the rules on fouls.  New rules is that is one of three conclusions have been reached. A - the attacking player has slipped or accidentally fallen over, ruling - play on/drop ball to restart. B - attacking player has exaggerated contact, ruling - yellow card for attacking player, free kick for defending team. C - defending player has physically impeded attacking player in a manner that is not intended to play the ball itself, ruling - free kick/penalty for attacking player, yellow/red card as necessary.  Notice that the word contact does not appear here anywhere.  Contact is completely irrelevant.  It's all about the players' intent.  If they intend to unfairly influence the outcome of the game, then they are penalised.

2.  All refs, linesmen and 4th refs wear microphones.  Video decisions are decided by a 5th ref that sits away from the pitch i.e. the ref refers decisions and takes advice.  This conversation is all broadcast so the world can hear it.  This gives transparency and stops corrupt decisions from referees.  Also, bad language/abuse directed towards the referee is an instant red card. This stops the world hearing Wayne Rooney call the ref a c*** for the 90th time every game.

Doubt any of this would happen though, it's in FIFA/UEFA/FAs' interests to be able to manage results through referees to suit their agenda.  Bent as f***.

He's already up to 131 so that problem has been fixed.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Friday 19 July 2019, 03:28:41 pm
Comparing it to cricket and tennis isnt the best because they're a lot less fluid of a sport than football.

Rugby?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: joeyt on Friday 19 July 2019, 03:58:34 pm
I've no idea about rugby, I try to avoid watching it as much as possible but it was incredibly stop start when I have caught it on the telly
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Friday 19 July 2019, 04:41:44 pm
I've no idea about rugby, I try to avoid watching it as much as possible but it was incredibly stop start when I have caught it on the telly

Fair one.  I think if you don't/haven't played it, then it's a tough watch.  I think in terms of gameplay it's fairly similar to football (ignoring tackling) except that in football the ball can be passed forwards to players ahead of the ball causing the gameplay to move up and down the pitch more quickly.

In refereeing terms, the laws of rugby are often black or white.  In football they are often shades of grey, which doesn't help referees, hence why I propose modifying the rules to help refs out more (and making their decisions more transparent).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 03:59:14 pm
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/explained-new-goal-kick-rules-3127183

Just watched this new rule in the Juventus vs Inter match.

Premier League using it next season too.

Pep Guardiola is going to love it.

So will Potter :hmm:

Yay :thup: or Nay :thdn:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 04:10:23 pm
Strange explanation of the purpose of the rule. People used to kick the ball upfield so we introduced a law that encouraged it.


Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 04:31:56 pm
Don't really understand it, couldn't they have just have made it a freekick to the attacking side if a defender touches it in the box?

Guess they want to cater for teams who pass it out, which is fine I guess.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 07:42:06 pm
Was explained poorly in that article. My interpretation was that the ball is now fair game as soon as the goal kick is taken, it's just that players need to start from outside of the box.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Belfast Boy on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 07:59:08 pm
Was explained poorly in that article. My interpretation was that the ball is now fair game as soon as the goal kick is taken, it's just that players need to start from outside of the box.

Attacking players need to start inside the box, defenders can stand right next to the keeper and take a short pass, giving them a few seconds before they can be closed down.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: triggs on Wednesday 24 July 2019, 08:53:23 pm
Won't make much difference but it might speed the game up a bit which is good
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Thursday 25 July 2019, 12:24:48 am
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/explained-new-goal-kick-rules-3127183

Just watched this new rule in the Juventus vs Inter match.

Premier League using it next season too.

Pep Guardiola is going to love it.

So will Potter :hmm:

Yay :thup: or Nay :thdn:

No way you’re an adult.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 25 July 2019, 12:42:01 am
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/explained-new-goal-kick-rules-3127183

Just watched this new rule in the Juventus vs Inter match.

Premier League using it next season too.

Pep Guardiola is going to love it.

So will Potter :hmm:

Yay :thup: or Nay :thdn:

No way you’re an adult.

Love you too :rose:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Gallowgate End on Thursday 25 July 2019, 12:45:53 am
Wait till you lot watch it.

Very amusing :laugh:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: sadnesstan on Thursday 25 July 2019, 08:16:34 am
How long before the first goalkick that leads to a penalty?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Stifleaay on Saturday 3 August 2019, 11:41:04 pm
Baffling one in the MLS just now. Atalanta were on the attack in the box, LA Galaxy player makes a tackle and clears the ball. Atalanta make another attack which comes to nothing then attack again when one of their players is obstructed and it’s an obvious penalty. The referee immediately points to the spot but wants to check with VAR, he goes to check it and the replay is showing the first incident which happened a minute earlier. The commentators think the wrong images are put up, however the replay is a feed from the referee’s VAR system and he’s slowing it down etc. It clearly shows that there was no foul, the referee points to the spot for the penalty and books the defender.

Atlanta should have had a penalty, but not for that incident.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: matta on Monday 5 August 2019, 10:44:47 am
How long before the first goalkick that leads to a penalty?

Not a penalty, but a nice screw up:
https://youtu.be/sdhAd57wzqg?t=576

This is from Bournemouths last friendly vs Lyon on saturday. Interesting.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 5 August 2019, 04:47:08 pm
How long before the first goalkick that leads to a penalty?

Not a penalty, but a nice screw up:
https://youtu.be/sdhAd57wzqg?t=576

This is from Bournemouths last friendly vs Lyon on saturday. Interesting.

Still baffled as to why he ran across the box when he found himself in danger. As you're always told, if in doubt...
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 10 August 2019, 10:54:29 am
https://youtu.be/o6p2n6QSymI
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Saturday 10 August 2019, 01:14:12 pm
Bollocks that he meant it
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: AsprillasShinPad on Saturday 10 August 2019, 01:43:08 pm
Wow. Offside VAR decision made on completely arbitrary lines drawn on players' arms.

That is dogshit, and will be horrific when it's used against us to make sure the big clubs get the win.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Disco on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:12:36 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: duo on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:18:31 pm
Quote
You pay god knows what to actually turn up to an experience that now only makes any sense to anyone on television.
So true - one thing I love about football over other sports is the speed of the game.  VAR just kills it - stop/start without a clue what's going on.  And for what? We'll still get wrong decisions - that offside today - ridiculous.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Tsunami on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:21:53 pm
Why weren’t Watford given a pen?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:25:47 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morla84 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:28:44 pm
They should call it VARmite, because you either love it or hate it. Am I right folks? 😎
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:30:20 pm
They should call it VARmite, because you either love it or hate it. Am I right folks? 😎

I've reviewed it with the team and the decision is you're a c***




:wink:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:31:53 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Do you think every single thing that happens on the pitch should be reviewed? Every throw in, every coming together in the centre circle?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morla84 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:32:51 pm
They should call it VARmite, because you either love it or hate it. Am I right folks? 😎

I've reviewed it with the team and the decision is you're a c***




:wink:
Who's on your team buddy?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:34:31 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Do you think every single thing that happens on the pitch should be reviewed? Every throw in, every coming together in the centre circle?

I do not.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:34:58 pm
They should call it VARmite, because you either love it or hate it. Am I right folks? 😎

I've reviewed it with the team and the decision is you're a c***




:wink:
Who's on your team buddy?

The VAR Boyz
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morla84 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:37:29 pm
Destined to be 'Toon VARmy' headlines when it wins us some points 😎 might try sell that one to Lee Ryder as well
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:38:15 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Do you think every single thing that happens on the pitch should be reviewed? Every throw in, every coming together in the centre circle?

I do not.

That's mental by your own admission - "less accuracy"
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:41:32 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Do you think every single thing that happens on the pitch should be reviewed? Every throw in, every coming together in the centre circle?

I do not.

That's mental by your own admission - "less accuracy"

Pathetic argument. There's no sport on the planet where they review every play regardless of impact or intent etc.

Honestly that's f***ing tragic from a Titan of NO like you :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Andy on Saturday 10 August 2019, 04:52:31 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:03:42 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:08:09 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Do you think every single thing that happens on the pitch should be reviewed? Every throw in, every coming together in the centre circle?

I do not.

That's mental by your own admission - "less accuracy"

Pathetic argument. There's no sport on the planet where they review every play regardless of impact or intent etc.

Honestly that's f***ing tragic from a Titan of NO like you :lol:

It's not pathetic at all, it's literally what you said, that it's mental to want less accuracy, which you do, because you don't want every decision reviewed. Cricket and tennis, at the levels the technology exists, are both under review for every single thing that happens are they not? ???

Every decision on a football match is crucial depending on what's happened afterwards. A throw-in the wrong way which leads to a goal a minute later is just as important a factor on the match result as a penalty, football's very different to cricket and tennis in that sense. It's highly contradictory to be pro-VAR and not want every decision reviewed. Yes, that would obviously be mental but I think the whole thing is f***ing insane to start with.

John Nicholson puts it much better than me:

Quote
Once you insist on VAR, you come up against a big problem: you cannot separate any moment in a football game from the last. It is an interrelated network of events each influenced and geared by the previous. So a wrongly awarded throw that leads to a goal 28 passes down the line is, in this authoritarian universe, an affront to fairness. Such a goal should be checked and disallowed, but right now it wouldn’t be. Yet VAR is nothing if it is not an absolutist religion. To restrict its use is to compromise the premise upon which its existence relies: the desire to get decisions right. So once you welcome VAR, how can you argue against the expansion of it? You can’t. It’s not a sustainable position to take because you’re going against your very own reasons for adopting VAR in the first place.

When a goal is ruled out for offside by VAR but another goal is allowed because the contravention of a law happened in a phase not checked by VAR, the game’s result is actually distorted more by the technology, not made more correct. It is, in effect, an inherently contradictory model unless it is used for all decisions wherever and whenever they happen on the pitch or in the game, just to make sure they are right because any mistakes at all will affect the game. It cannot be otherwise.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Andy on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:12:32 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.

I agree with that, but this should have all been in place before it came into the premier league.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:17:14 pm
The obvious solution to the offside mess, short of the best solution of throwing the whole thing out the window or making it so if any part of the body is onside then you're onside, is surely an "umpire's call" type of thing, with the benefit going to the attacker. If the margin is less than 'x'cm then the on-field decision stands.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: jackyboy on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:30:05 pm
They should run VAR AFTER the games then penalise, give goals, take goals away, suspend the divers and deliberate fouls.  Suspend people like Colback for trying to impersonate a footballer. It would make for good viewing and a longer period of excitement  as you wouldn't know the actual result until well after the game
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: tgarve on Saturday 10 August 2019, 05:56:55 pm
Would actually make for great viewing
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Ian W on Saturday 10 August 2019, 07:22:04 pm
The obvious solution to the offside mess, short of the best solution of throwing the whole thing out the window or making it so if any part of the body is onside then you're onside, is surely an "umpire's call" type of thing, with the benefit going to the attacker. If the margin is less than 'x'cm then the on-field decision stands.

I guess they don’t believe they need that because the line the computer draws is perfect?

FWIW I agree with that John Nicholson quote above, I’ve said the same thing before. Seems odd that some decisions are corrected and others don’t matter.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: WarrenBartonCentrePartin on Saturday 10 August 2019, 07:26:40 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

I'm guessing we've not put a second screen up? Be totally odd for anyone in the East Stand especially, who can't see what it says.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: jdckelly on Saturday 10 August 2019, 09:20:04 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
or we could just go back to the old rules which worked just fine and throw var in the bin rather than try and mutilate the rules so var fits.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Rod on Saturday 10 August 2019, 10:12:58 pm
Or just get the correct decision.  Which VAR does.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: David Edgar on Saturday 10 August 2019, 10:14:54 pm
Does it though?

?s=19

Read the thread.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: thomas on Saturday 10 August 2019, 10:22:36 pm
IMO it's really not about correct or incorrect. I see the VAR brouhaha as a proxy war between the romantics of a more grassroots, non-commercialized era of football and the ruthless corporatization of it by those who also want to protect their investment.

Truthfully I think the war is over and the latter have already won. Granted I do also support VAR but not because I worry about the "multimillion dollar pound decisions at stake".
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 02:56:49 am

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
or we could just go back to the old rules which worked just fine and throw var in the bin rather than try and mutilate the rules so var fits.

Which ones, they've been changed countless times in small ways over the years like. Look at offside, has gone from daylight to the width of a fingernail man.

Rules don't have to be changed wholesale like, they just have to make sense with VAR.

So of the 4 things they're saying it's used for, as an example:

Offside: needs to be a practical advantage taken by the attacker, this mm bullshit is nonsense. Make it daylight again which var can easily capture with very little controversy. Advantage goes to the defender if it's in doubt, imo.

Red card incidents: is there an issue with it for this? I guess the main one would be you can't review things like 2nd yellows right? Not sure anything needs to change there

Mistaken identity: again any issue?

Penalties: main one is surely this f***ing nonsense about the hand being in an unnatural position or whatever it is. They need to adjust the rules so every f***ing ball kicked at a defender won't result in a penalty

As regards the overall point about something happening 28 passes ago that led to a goal, it's going too far imo. Off the top of my head make it active in areas or something, so if there's a foul in the final third of the pitch prior to a goal then it's eligible for var review and the goal can be chalked off.

I get that a foul could be committed next to your own box to win the ball then you go up and score right away. You'd feel aggrieved but at the end of the day if you take the ball 90 yards and score the other team has had ample opportunity to stop you doing it and haven't.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Wullie on Sunday 11 August 2019, 08:49:54 am
Am I right in thinking a dive on the edge of the box to win a free kick would not currently be reviewed but a dive in the box for a penalty would be? An incident like the free kick that Liverpool beat us with at the death last season?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: morla84 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 08:55:42 am
Wonder whether this will cause VARnage at the match today...or whether everything will be wonderVAR, as the germans say 😎
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Colo's Short and Curlies on Sunday 11 August 2019, 09:13:17 am

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
or we could just go back to the old rules which worked just fine and throw var in the bin rather than try and mutilate the rules so var fits.

Which ones, they've been changed countless times in small ways over the years like. Look at offside, has gone from daylight to the width of a fingernail man.

Rules don't have to be changed wholesale like, they just have to make sense with VAR.

So of the 4 things they're saying it's used for, as an example:

Offside: needs to be a practical advantage taken by the attacker, this mm bullshit is nonsense. Make it daylight again which var can easily capture with very little controversy. Advantage goes to the defender if it's in doubt, imo.

Red card incidents: is there an issue with it for this? I guess the main one would be you can't review things like 2nd yellows right? Not sure anything needs to change there

Mistaken identity: again any issue?

Penalties: main one is surely this f***ing nonsense about the hand being in an unnatural position or whatever it is. They need to adjust the rules so every f***ing ball kicked at a defender won't result in a penalty

As regards the overall point about something happening 28 passes ago that led to a goal, it's going too far imo. Off the top of my head make it active in areas or something, so if there's a foul in the final third of the pitch prior to a goal then it's eligible for var review and the goal can be chalked off.

I get that a foul could be committed next to your own box to win the ball then you go up and score right away. You'd feel aggrieved but at the end of the day if you take the ball 90 yards and score the other team has had ample opportunity to stop you doing it and haven't.

Go back a couple of seasons, Everton at home when we lost to a last minute header from a corner that should have been a goal kick.

So literally 3 touches after a wrong call, VAR rule that one out?

I'm actually curious, I haven't read up enough on what it is to be used for.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Pilko on Sunday 11 August 2019, 09:27:04 am
I loved the idea of VAR after seeing us get conned out of obvious penalties each week and no opposition red card for 140-odd PL games or whatever it was.

In my head I had some kind of cricket or tennis style system where the manager or coaching staff would have access to a dugout screen and could challenge 1 or 2 calls a game each, to eliminate blatant offsides or obvious pen shouts going unnoticed. Even then, the game is stopped for a little bit but at least you don't get stupid goals given like the Azpilicueta one at Cardiff last year.

The current thing is a mess and that Sterling offside yesterday made me very sad (and not cos he's my FF captain and missed an assist) as it was basically impossible to tell. VAR was only pushed for because the standard of refereeing in this country is f***ing s*** and wildly inconsistent and there are ludicrous calls made all the time. The referee and linesmen now can effectively do the same s*** job, just now another s*** referee with a video system miles away can do it for them and competely knack the momentum and atmosphere of a game by spending a few minutes looking at a blade of grass in relation to someone's shoulder blades.

Hawk Eye is class and one of the best additions we've ever had IMO, they should only have implemented VAR if the speed of decision was the same i.e. a few seconds.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 09:49:09 am

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.

But the point isn't what works on or off TV. The point is that decisions are corrected.

If it's a problem in ground, which I'm sure it is, they need to solve that with some commentary or whatever.

The box has been opened, there's no going back. You can't now wish for less accuracy it's mental.

Surely it depends on your personal view as to whether inaccuracy was ever really a problem? When VAR was used in the world cup a few years ago it was sold to the world under the impression that it would be used to correct "clear and obvious errors", and to-date that tournament has been the only good use of the system that I've seen. It's gone way beyond the clear and obvious now. Those offsides in the city game today were mental, there's no way it's an obvious error from the linesman if different frames of the ball being kicked show different results... If they have to analyse things frame-by-frame and still need a computer display to figure out whether it was actually offside then it's definitely gone too far. If they want to get those decisions perfect then why bother having people there to review it anyway? In this day and age you could probably just whack a GPS on every player and every ball and have it work as efficiently as goal line tech anyway; I'd rather wait for a solution along those lines if we're aiming for perfection, because at least the decision would be instantaneous rather than the shambles it is now.

Something in the way VAR's used needs to change like. Almost every time a goal goes in now we're just waiting to see if it'll actually count, that just isn't right IMO. It's a bad enough experience on the tele with the commentators telling you what's going on, it must be a complete mess for match-goers.

My point on VAR would be they've tried to make it fit existing rules and it won't. They need to amend the rules to fit the technology. Then we can move on.
or we could just go back to the old rules which worked just fine and throw var in the bin rather than try and mutilate the rules so var fits.

Which ones, they've been changed countless times in small ways over the years like. Look at offside, has gone from daylight to the width of a fingernail man.

Rules don't have to be changed wholesale like, they just have to make sense with VAR.

So of the 4 things they're saying it's used for, as an example:

Offside: needs to be a practical advantage taken by the attacker, this mm bullshit is nonsense. Make it daylight again which var can easily capture with very little controversy. Advantage goes to the defender if it's in doubt, imo.

Red card incidents: is there an issue with it for this? I guess the main one would be you can't review things like 2nd yellows right? Not sure anything needs to change there

Mistaken identity: again any issue?

Penalties: main one is surely this f***ing nonsense about the hand being in an unnatural position or whatever it is. They need to adjust the rules so every f***ing ball kicked at a defender won't result in a penalty

As regards the overall point about something happening 28 passes ago that led to a goal, it's going too far imo. Off the top of my head make it active in areas or something, so if there's a foul in the final third of the pitch prior to a goal then it's eligible for var review and the goal can be chalked off.

I get that a foul could be committed next to your own box to win the ball then you go up and score right away. You'd feel aggrieved but at the end of the day if you take the ball 90 yards and score the other team has had ample opportunity to stop you doing it and haven't.

Go back a couple of seasons, Everton at home when we lost to a last minute header from a corner that should have been a goal kick.

So literally 3 touches after a wrong call, VAR rule that one out?

I'm actually curious, I haven't read up enough on what it is to be used for.

I've not read the intricacies of it if I'm being honest, just on about the bits I've seen and read and what I would do.

I think there has to be balance to the cost (time) and benefit like anything else. So in the example you give, for me, if the wrong call leads to a direct free it should be reviewable, however if it gives a corner or indirect free kick then no as you have the opportunity to defend what's coming as a team. I think they should allow some kind of challenge system as well, maybe 1 per half on key calls.

That kind of balance, to do otherwise leads down the path Wullies quote was on about.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: Sima on Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:11:06 am
I think one of the worst things as a fan of a club is that VAR will strip away the excitement and adrenaline rush of your team scoring a goal.

The joy that comes with a last minute winner?  Don’t bother anymore because even if the officials on the field give it, your joy might be pulled back and even if it is given you’ve got to hang around while it is confirmed to celebrate which won’t feel instinctive.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: loki679 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:13:00 am
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: neesy111 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 10:13:29 am
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.

This 100%.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: bigfella on Sunday 11 August 2019, 11:14:28 am
I think one of the worst things as a fan of a club is that VAR will strip away the excitement and adrenaline rush of your team scoring a goal.

The joy that comes with a last minute winner?  Don’t bother anymore because even if the officials on the field give it, your joy might be pulled back and even if it is given you’ve got to hang around while it is confirmed to celebrate which won’t feel instinctive.

This is the truth. Football is the best game in the world, because good sport from the spectator's point of view, is all about tension and release.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Mike on Sunday 11 August 2019, 04:19:49 pm
:lol: Wolves' disallowed goal feels dead harsh.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR) - to be used in the Premier League next season
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Sunday 11 August 2019, 05:18:43 pm
I think it's a half measure tbh and I hate the stopping of the game all the time.  We have the technology to automate offside calls and goal line decisions so they should be out of the referees hands.  The rest just leave up to the referee imo.

Get rid of VAR and implement a player and ball tracking system which needs no unnecessary stoppages, instant decision and accurate.

This 100%.

The f*** are you two daft c***s on about man?

Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: LFEE on Sunday 11 August 2019, 06:43:36 pm
:lol: Wolves' disallowed goal feels dead harsh.

Just seen it. Another VAR classic. Wonder if someone will bring a compilation DVD out of the best ones :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: sbnufc on Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:26:56 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/RqfDK0E.jpg)
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:48:57 pm
It's absolutely s****, but it's here to stay and the rules will be adapted to fit the technology.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: duo on Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:53:16 pm
Why such the push for VAR? What's it achieved? Instead of discussing a ref decision where discussing how poor VAR is.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: jdckelly on Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:54:04 pm
the fundamental problem I have with it boils down to does it make football more enjoyable to watch, thus far the definitive answer for myself has been hell f***ing no
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: duo on Sunday 18 August 2019, 03:57:43 pm
the fundamental problem I have with it boils down to does it make football more enjoyable to watch, thus far the definitive answer for myself has been hell f***ing no
This^

Absolute s*** what happened yesterday at Man City - takes the joy out the game for a decision no one would have questioned before.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: sadnesstan on Sunday 18 August 2019, 04:42:19 pm
Won't be long before you can bet on the outcome of VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 02:39:14 pm
The problem with VAR is that we asked for it. We wanted to reach the correct decisions. What it's taking away (as others correctly identify) is the drama behind it. Yes it was the correct decision in the Man City game, but we need to work out where we want the balance, either with VAR and getting decisions right (with reduced drama / enjoyment for viewers) or the reverse. Also throw into the mix that a referee also has discretion to refer / not refer certain incidents to VAR and the picture gets even more complicated.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 02:47:03 pm
It was only the "correct decision" because the laws have been changed this summer for the purposes of accommodating VAR.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 02:50:04 pm
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 02:58:55 pm
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.

If you read the 4th bullet point from the bottom on this link highlighting the changes to the Laws of the Game, you'll find it does. In that situation, it hit the attacking player's (Laporte's) arm. Whilst accidental it hit his arm and under this definition it was the correct decision to rule the goal out.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of the new law change, but the decision based on the reading of the law in this instance was correct. I believe the overriding rationale behind provisions like this is that they don't want attackers to be seen to be scoring with their hand/arm (although they have taken this to an extreme here).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 02:59:15 pm
It wasn't the correct decision anyway tbh, I don't know what I'm on about there. Even reading the new law, it simply was not.

If you read the 4th bullet point from the bottom on this link highlighting the changes to the Laws of the Game, you'll find it does. In that situation, it hit the attacking player's (Laporte's) arm. Whilst accidental it hit his arm and under this definition it was the correct decision to rule the goal out.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of the new law change, but the decision based on the reading of the law in this instance was correct. I believe the overriding rationale behind provisions like this is that they don't want attackers to be seen to be scoring with their hand/arm (although they have taken this to an extreme here).

Helpfully I've forgotten the link, here it is: http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:08:19 pm
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm
and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity

How does that in any way describe what happened on Saturday?

Laporte did not gain control or possession of the ball at any point. The only way you can get that paragraph to disallow the goal on Saturday is to add extra meaning to the words that aren't there, "oh yeah they meant if it goes to a teammate obvs". If they meant that, they should have written it.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:14:18 pm
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm
and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity

How does that in any way describe what happened on Saturday?

Laporte did not gain control or possession of the ball at any point. The only way you can get that paragraph to disallow the goal on Saturday is to add extra meaning to the words that aren't there, "oh yeah they meant if it goes to a teammate obvs". If they meant that, they should have written it.

The bold part applies here. By Laporte's handball and touch onto Jesus, it created a goalscoring opportunity from which Jesus scored.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:18:18 pm
He has to gain control or possession of the ball first, before that part of the sentence applies.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:23:33 pm
He has to gain control or possession of the ball first, before that part of the sentence applies.

'New handball rules introduced this season state that any goal resulting from handball, accidental or otherwise, must be ruled out and Man City found out to their cost just how strictly these laws will be applied.'

Taken from the post-match report from BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49302583).

As I said before, I don't agree with these rules, but they are what they are and will be enforced to the letter of the law.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:26:04 pm
:lol: We're reading the laws themselves, why are you quoting a BBC article at me?

"By the letter of the law" which is what we're talking about, that goal was entirely legal. Laporte did not gain control or possession and BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW he (personally) has to do that, before scoring or creating, for it to be an offence. He did not, therefore it wasn't.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: TheNE40 on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:33:39 pm
:lol: We're reading the laws themselves, why are you quoting a BBC article at me?

"By the letter of the law" which is what we're talking about, that goal was entirely legal. Laporte did not gain control or possession and BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW he (personally) has to do that, before scoring or creating, for it to be an offence. He did not, therefore it wasn't.

Because the BBC (and their writers) are aware of the laws and their contents and wouldn't go out to misinform their readership.

I'll agree to disagree on this one. Looks like both myself, the refereeing team (Michael Oliver and the VAR crew) and anyone else who think it was correct to deny the goal were all wrong !
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Segun Oluwaniyi on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:35:09 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.
Are stadiums in England also not showing any replays of VAR incidents to supporters? To me, this was the biggest problem at the World Cup with VAR. For the most part, people in the crowd didn't have any idea what was going on outside of the VAR review notification and the end result. During Argentina-Nigeria, a header by Rojo flicked off his arm in the box (would have been a clear penalty under the new rules I believe), but it wasn't anything noticeable for me, sat closer to the other end. Between our players crowding the ref, the referee having to communicate to the VAR official, and the actual review; there was probably a three-four minute break in the match, during which we received no clear explanation as to what was happening. The experience with it is much worse for people who are actually at the match compared with those watching at home or in the pub, which is not acceptable. If this is the way forward, they need to go full Yankee with this and at least engage the crowd and keep them informed.


I would think it would be even worse in the Premier League when an incident we did not see is then adjudicated by some third party we also cannot see. It should be the referee for any judgement based decision.
Does it though?

?s=19

Read the thread.
This is pretty reflective of my views of the VAR calls for players offside by a millimetre or two. We are reviewing the position of a minimum of three bodies (two players and a ball) that are in motion and stopping time at the indeterminable point in time that a ball is "passed". The idea that this is an exact science is laughable and ruinous to the game of football. Offside is at its essence a simple rule, now we are using freeze-frame and trying to determine the point where Raheem Sterling's scapula turns into his humerus. This is what replay does in a sport. In the NFL, we are stopping the game to determine if the ball touched one blade of grass, and in the NBA we are stopping the game to see if a player's fingernail contacted the ball. Football will head the same way. It is inevitable.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Jimburst on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:37:13 pm
It's a question of grammar there like. I'm not English expert but I'd have read it like Wullie has.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Monday 19 August 2019, 03:44:20 pm
I have absolutely no doubt what the law is meant to be doing, and the referees and the press are all going off how the law should have been written for what it is intended, not what it actually is.

Ignore the BBC, Michael Oliver, whoever - read the words that have been written down. There's a typo in there for good measure ("touches", should be touched). It's appallingly written, which is ironic seeing as the whole thing has been done solely for the benefit of people obsessed with accuracy and the LETTER OF THE LAW.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Disco on Monday 19 August 2019, 04:01:31 pm

Sounds class. Must be even better when the game isn’t even on TV.
Are stadiums in England also not showing any replays of VAR incidents to supporters? To me, this was the biggest problem at the World Cup with VAR. For the most part, people in the crowd didn't have any idea what was going on outside of the VAR review notification and the end result. During Argentina-Nigeria, a header by Rojo flicked off his arm in the box (would have been a clear penalty under the new rules I believe), but it wasn't anything noticeable for me, sat closer to the other end. Between our players crowding the ref, the referee having to communicate to the VAR official, and the actual review; there was probably a three-four minute break in the match, during which we received no clear explanation as to what was happening. The experience with it is much worse for people who are actually at the match compared with those watching at home or in the pub, which is not acceptable. If this is the way forward, they need to go full Yankee with this and at least engage the crowd and keep them informed.


I would think it would be even worse in the Premier League when an incident we did not see is then adjudicated by some third party we also cannot see. It should be the referee for any judgement based decision.
Does it though?

?s=19

Read the thread.
This is pretty reflective of my views of the VAR calls for players offside by a millimetre or two. We are reviewing the position of a minimum of three bodies (two players and a ball) that are in motion and stopping time at the indeterminable point in time that a ball is "passed". The idea that this is an exact science is laughable and ruinous to the game of football. Offside is at its essence a simple rule, now we are using freeze-frame and trying to determine the point where Raheem Sterling's scapula turns into his humerus. This is what replay does in a sport. In the NFL, we are stopping the game to determine if the ball touched one blade of grass, and in the NBA we are stopping the game to see if a player's fingernail contacted the ball. Football will head the same way. It is inevitable.

Not as far as I’m aware. A message just pops up on screen if they’re reviewing however even if they did a fair few grounds don’t have big screens (Man Utd, Liverpool) or if they do they’re not in position for everyone to see (ourselves) so that’s another issue.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Amir_9 on Monday 19 August 2019, 07:07:00 pm
All for VAR to be honest. I'd rather watch a game with the correct rules applied as much as possible. That's just me personally.

VAR doesn't make any of the new rules any less confusing or surprising.

It's there to highlight the sort of decisions that can have teams avoid relegation rightfully and teams to qualify/win what they deserve correctly. Over the span of the season for me this is more important than "but we can't celebrate like we usually do"
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: morla84 on Monday 19 August 2019, 07:11:13 pm
Surely they could use the electronic advertisement hoardings to send a message to the fans of what is being reviewed and show what the official is seeing on the big screen, put a limit on the review time and ask everyone to sit in their seats for 5 mins after a goal before its approved?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: neesy111 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 06:55:34 am
?s=19

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Groundhog63 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 07:10:50 am
?s=19

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Thick.As.Whale.Spunk.

There's a fair few believe twoddle like that tho.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: 1964 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 07:11:39 am
This is a man given television time who thinks that the EU, which for all intents and purposes is a trade organisation governs football
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 09:56:42 am
that is remarkable
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: mrmojorisin75 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 10:16:51 am
I think Holloway has made a push for the Brexitland PFM Prime Minister slot there, a dark horse but it's a bold pitch

Allardyce could be his Chancellor, need to find a role for Redknapp probs
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Ian W on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 10:26:43 am
Redknapp would want Chancellor.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: leffe186 on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 10:40:02 am
I have absolutely no doubt what the law is meant to be doing, and the referees and the press are all going off how the law should have been written for what it is intended, not what it actually is.

Ignore the BBC, Michael Oliver, whoever - read the words that have been written down. There's a typo in there for good measure ("touches", should be touched). It's appallingly written, which is ironic seeing as the whole thing has been done solely for the benefit of people obsessed with accuracy and the LETTER OF THE LAW.

I suppose you could argue that he “gains possession” because if it doesn’t hit his arm it goes straight through to Ndombele, whereas his arm diverts it straight to Jesus. Like, if somebody punches the ball into the net they didn’t control the ball themselves, but they effectively gained possession.

It’s clearly an accident, but they also clearly scored a goal as a direct result of it hitting his arm. The question then is simply what we want refs to do with that information, plus all the other information on a video (pushing, offsides etc).
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Nobody on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 11:32:39 am
I have absolutely no doubt what the law is meant to be doing, and the referees and the press are all going off how the law should have been written for what it is intended, not what it actually is.

Ignore the BBC, Michael Oliver, whoever - read the words that have been written down. There's a typo in there for good measure ("touches", should be touched). It's appallingly written, which is ironic seeing as the whole thing has been done solely for the benefit of people obsessed with accuracy and the LETTER OF THE LAW.

I suppose you could argue that he “gains possession” because if it doesn’t hit his arm it goes straight through to Ndombele, whereas his arm diverts it straight to Jesus. Like, if somebody punches the ball into the net they didn’t control the ball themselves, but they effectively gained possession.

It’s clearly an accident, but they also clearly scored a goal as a direct result of it hitting his arm. The question then is simply what we want refs to do with that information, plus all the other information on a video (pushing, offsides etc).
Aye. Guess Laporte "gains possession" the moment the ball hits his hand, according to the rules. It's still absolute horse s*** that they have another rule depending on what happens after the incident. Either it's a foul or not, it shouldn't matter what happens after.
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Wullie on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 11:42:11 am
Scenario: Blue defender handles the ball accidentally in his own penalty area, clearly not a penalty, arms by his side, whatever. He immediately boots the ball downfield to his striker, who scores. The original handball in his own box is now an offence because of the goal.

Is it a) a penalty to Red, b) an indirect free kick in the Blue box to Red or c) nobody knows because IFAB haven't thought their daft rule change through?
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: Nobody on Wednesday 21 August 2019, 11:45:48 am
Scenario: Blue defender handles the ball accidentally in his own penalty area, clearly not a penalty, arms by his side, whatever. He immediately boots the ball downfield to his striker, who scores. The original handball in his own box is now an offence because of the goal.

Is it a) a penalty to Red, b) an indirect free kick in the Blue box to Red or c) nobody knows because IFAB haven't thought their daft rule change through?
C :lol:
Title: Re: Video Assistant Referees (VAR)
Post by: GeordieDazzler on Thursday 22 August 2019, 03:43:51 pm
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/sport/2019/08/football-s-adoption-var-another-symptom-era-can-t-stand-nuance