Jonjo Shelvey (now playing for Çaykur Rizespor, on loan from Nottingham Forest)

I think the current setup opens up a lot more room and time for him as ASM and Almiron are afforded more room in forward areas and have to be accounted for. ASM consistently takes multiple defenders out of the game on his runs and Shelvey can get up the pitch and receive the ball with room further up.

 

The change in formation has really suited everyone really well. No idea why it took the manager so long to try it out.

 

He did, we got massacred.

 

Yeah, as a manager you don't just change it for 5 mins and then switch back again.

 

He's supposed to actually commit to it and you know, maybe coach the team? Afterall it's working now isn't it?

 

Ridiculous comment.

 

 

Rough Monday morning?

 

I agree - he should commit to it and coach it. Which he seemingly has done now, and it's working.

 

You asked why it took him so long to try it out. He did try it out. And it fell flat on its arse.

 

He tried it before, badly, and it didn't work. He's now tried it properly, and it's worked.

 

Not sure what's "ridiculous" about that.

 

I'm fine

 

Changing it one game is not trying it is my point.

 

Whatever he has supposedly done now could and should have been done previously.

He did, and as was pointed out. We got massacred.

He then went back to what was left to him and he didn't have to work with i.e. Rafa's system which got us safe and over the line, now he's decided to open up a bit when there is no pressure in the form of relegation threat and also no toxic atmosphere.

We're playing well, but let's remember we've won against a Shef Utd team that were knackered and down to 10 men after their second game of the restart in 3(or 4) days, Bournemouth who are fucking dreadful and drawn against West Ham United and Aston Villa.

Bruce is hardly some mastermind of attacking football so stop trying to big him up as something he isn't.

Your response does not follow any logic whatsoever, and completely disregards all the points made earlier on.

If you think changing the formation for one game and over reacting to the result is acceptable then good for you.

If you think it was fine to persist with the football we played earlier this season and not making any changes whatsoever was acceptable then good for you.

My response follows plenty of logic which seemingly you're incapable of grasping.

We played to Rafa/the players system and were doing OK (by our standards), Bruce continuously put down the style of play and said he wanted to attack more - a very typical statement from English managers. Tried it and got utterly fucking destroyed.

He (or rather the players) played the way would get us safe for the rest of the season and it worked. Now under a zero pressure environment he has tried more expansive football and it has yielded 2 wins and 2 draws of which 3 teams we got these results against were sitting in the relegation zone. Good, but hardly something to wank over and claim we should have played that way all season.

Well your logic stinks.

As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no!

Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results.

None of your points make any sense.

Some highlights reel tbf.

He's had a wonderful preseason tbf to him.

passing isnt the problem, its the lack of energy/mobilty.

Which made it even more bizarre that we played him behind the striker last night

Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history.

Well your logic stinks.

 

As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no!

 

Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results.

 

None of your points make any sense.

We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home.

Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history.

Another amazing stat. How do we fare on overall goals scored though. Can see it being spun that Bruce has created a much better contributing team..how amazing we have stayed up and Bruce has done the job he has with his strikers letting him down. Or is that the wrong way round too?

Well your logic stinks.

 

As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no!

 

Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results.

 

None of your points make any sense.

 

We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home.

No we did not.

Well your logic stinks.

 

As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no!

 

Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results.

 

None of your points make any sense.

 

We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home.

 

No we did not.

I was there (admittedly I left at half time) but I'm fairly certain we'd used all 3 subs by half time and then Schar got injured right at the start of the 2nd half and had to go off.

Well your logic stinks.

 

As previously mentioned, the so called destruction came against one of the best teams in the league, where we also had Hayden sent off. On the day we were also missing both Shelvey and ASM and Almiron was being played on the right side, his most ineffective position. After this result it was ditched. Without giving it another go with all 11 men and ASM and Shelvey in the team. Brilliant decision according to you. Um ... no!

 

Meanwhile in the holy grail formation that you claim was so good and got us safe, we still got tonked 3 goals to nil by the same Leicester team at home, but this time with all 11 men on the pitch for the whole game. Not to mention the bottom team in the league battered us previously in this same formation, as did Villa who are also in the relegation zone currently. Yet, according to you that was still fine to remain with that setup despite those results.

 

None of your points make any sense.

 

We played with only 10 men from the 47th minute onwards against Leicester at home.

 

No we did not.

 

I was there (admittedly I left at half time) but I'm fairly certain we'd used all 3 subs by half time and then Schar got injured right at the start of the 2nd half and had to go off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50908725

Seems you are indeed correct. My mistake.

However, my point in the original post still stands. In this game we were already down by two and were not looking a threat to score as usual. Besides, we had already been dealt with by far lesser teams in that formation as I mentioned.

Finished the season as top goal scorer with 6 goals. Our lowest top scorer in the clubs history.

Jesus.

Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club.  He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow.  When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by.  Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat.  He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively.  On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open.  He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls.  Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his.

And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace.  The club always lacks vision and anticipation.  The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion.  Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths.  The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather.  The vegetables are soggy and limp.  The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway.

When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod.

Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club.  He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow.  When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by.  Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat.  He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively.  On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open.  He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls.  Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his.

 

And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace.  The club always lacks vision and anticipation.  The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion.  Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths.  The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather.  The vegetables are soggy and limp.  The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway.

 

When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod.

Lol

It’s like Miggy, I love Miggy, I do think his strongest position is the number 10 role, he played there before we bought him, and arguably has had his best games for us in that position.

But on Fifa I play him up top on the right of a front 3 and press triangle every time I can

He's far from perfect, certainly, but I think he could be useful in initiating our play from the back, because we have two centre backs that are completely hopeless passing the ball forward without hoofing it. I think we really ought to use a 4-3-3 in order to achieve this. Lining up in the formation below.

---------------------- Wilson --------------------------

--- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser ---

--------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------

---------------------- Shelvey -------------------------

Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo

Ideally Shelvey should then be dropping back as far as needed to get the ball of the centre backs and should be encouraged to get the ball to the midfielders or wingers ahead of him without always looking for the longest pass, and certainly without constantly going directly to Wilson over the top. It's essentially what Leeds do with Kelvin Philips, not that we can expect to come anywhere close to being that proficient at it even, or even need to at this point.

Defensively, I don't think he should press at all, as every time he does they pass it round him like a cone and there are massive gaps behind him as he can never recover. Just ask him to sit deep and close down only when a free man is ahead of him at the edge of our penalty box. A combination of 2 from Almiron, Hayden and Hendrick can do the harrying just ahead of him.

It certainly won't be perfect but I'd like to see that given a go. At the moment Hayden is the one that mostly sits and Shelvey is going forward at times when he is never capable of getting back in position. Bruce is having Shelvey go forward more because he got 6 goals last season, which is just the dumbest thing, because it will ultimately cost us more goals than he could ever score.

I also find it weird that Bruce has previously had a similar player in Huddlestone, who he used far more sensibly, and in the way I think Shelvey should be used. No idea why he can't see it.

Plays well when teams give him the freedom of midfield like West Ham and Bournemouth did. Anyone pressing him quickly or man marking him he struggles.

He plays a lot better with Gayle or Wilson up front than Joelinton or Carroll

Shelvey is emblematic of everything that is wrong with this club.  He's slow but not just slow of pace but he thinks slow and his feet move slow.  When he has a chance to step in and make a challenge and seize a loose ball you can watch him move seconds late and then hang his head as play passes him by.  Shelvey lacks the tactical ability spot a pattern and suss it out, each situation unique within the short term memory of a gnat.  He can't anticipate anything adequately be it defensively or offensively.  On the ball the only forward passes he completes are to players who are already wide open.  He lacks the vision to unlock a player with his long balls.  Those opportunities never register, instead he'll satisfied to ping a long ball directly into the heart of the defense and stands dully watching it headed away (or easily controlled) until the fact that he's failed fully registers inside that bald pate of his.

 

And like Shelvey, the club is always a step or two off the pace.  The club always lacks vision and anticipation.  The club always plays it safe unless it takes a wild shot in the dark which invariably fails, not spectacularly, but fails in a desultory, morose fashion.  Even the times to be joyful are tinged with a sour look and a crappy aftertaste in our mouths.  The steak is overcooked and like shoe leather.  The vegetables are soggy and limp.  The coffee is tepid and the desert obviously has sat out for far too long and was only just an afterthought, anyway.

 

When I play as NUFC in FM, the first thing I always do is sell Jonjo Shelvey when in reality he and the club are indeed two peas in a pod.

I feel that's a little bit harsh, Shelvey is a good passer, and he does have some vision to suss out patterns of play given enough time on the ball to do it. Problem is, in the modern game you don't get much time on the ball and his general lack of pace or engine means he's just not physically capable of playing the game at the top level. That's his real problem, not his awareness. In most games where he's part of our midfield we'll just get overrun unless we sacrifice a forward and have an extra body in there.

I've said this since the days of Nicky Butt though. You can't have players without an engine in the heart of midfield and expect to dominate games.

 

 

---------------------- Wilson --------------------------

 

--- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser ---

 

--------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------

 

---------------------- Shelvey -------------------------

 

Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo

 

You know what would be sweet to see with this formation?  Merino in the Shelvey role.  Or even Longstaff when he first came in to the squad.

Even when (mildly) defending Shelvey you can't escape that he's a statue.  If he moved any slower he'd be bronze and have bird shit all over his head!

agree with kaka, given what bruce has done to our CBs if shelvey is on the pitch he needs to be sitting on the CBs looking for the ball

problem is you then need the other CMs to be mobile and have enough nouse to be able to move into space and make angles for passes otherwise it's hoofball all the way

 

 

---------------------- Wilson --------------------------

 

--- ASM ------------------------------------ Fraser ---

 

--------- Almiron ---------------- Hayden ------------

 

---------------------- Shelvey -------------------------

 

Lewis ----- Fernandez ----- Lascelles ----- Manquillo

 

 

You know what would be sweet to see with this formation?  Merino in the Shelvey role.  Or even Longstaff when he first came in to the squad.

 

Even when (mildly) defending Shelvey you can't escape that he's a statue.  If he moved any slower he'd be bronze and have bird shit all over his head!

A decent coach would be grooming young Matty for this role. We’d need midfielders in front of him that want to find space and give him options tho. I find Hayden just wants to play it safe a lot like Colback used to get it end give it back to a CB or sideways to a FB. Sean’s gone off the boil and looks like he can’t keep up with pace of the game at times. Haven’t seen enough of Hendrick yet to comment but hopefully he’ll offer something different.

I felt we badly needed midfielders as much as we needed a striker this summmer.