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Thoughts on this summer's transfer window


Wallace
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I am quite bemused by our transfer dealings this Summer now that we are just over a week away from the window closing.

 

We went into the Summer being told that we had exciting targets lined up with 2nd and 3rd choices identified if our first choice didn't come off.  We also lost several of the first team squad which encouraged the thought that we would be getting in 3 or 4 better quality players to replace them.  Instead, we seem to have bolstered the squad with inexperienced youngsters "for the future"and not replacing 2 strikers who despite their shortcomings would have played a decent number of games this season if fit.

 

We started off prepared to pay decent money for a striker at a point when we were unaware whether Ba would be going and since then have only been linked with Carroll.  I assume we are serious about Carroll because if the lad is as keen to come back as we are being led to believe, then it will not have been fair to him if we are just playing games with Liverpol for Ashley and Llambias's amusement.

 

We are told that there is a budget to cover several new signings but at present, we seem reluctant to increase our bids even when the difference does not seem that much for a player than would improve us and who wants to come.  At this stage with the outgoings, we have only spent £1-2m and must have saved loads in wages.  Yes, Anita looks a good signing and seems pivotal in how Pardew wants us to play but surely others areas of the team needed strengthening first.

 

I keep reading the journalists saying that we are now concentrating on trying to keep our players rather than bringing in new ones but if no-one has put any offers in, what does than mean?  I saw somwhere on Twitter that an "agent" said that Man Utd had firmed up their interest in Cabaye and Pardew had told the board that under no circumstances were they to entertain any offers for him - but would they listen to him?  And if the player himself is not especially keen to move clubs would they automatically turn down the bid?

 

I'd love to know what the criteria is that would make the board listen to offers for players.  Is it purely financial or would they consider the impact on the team?  I think selling Colo would have a very negative impact not only on the team's performances but also on the players' morale but would the board care if the offer was "too good to turn down".  There are some players in the team whose sale at this stage of the transfer window would cause huge problems because they are a major reason for our style of play and would be very expensive to replace.

 

If clubs put in offers that matched our valuations of say Tiote and Cabaye, would we sell both or only one?

 

Do the board have genuine ambition to improve the team or only to just keep it ticking over with the minimum investment they can get away with?

 

Are we still pursuing all of our original targets or have we moved on to the alternatives?  And if not, why not?  Or was there never any real serious intent to recruit the players needed.  There is no doubt that the squad is lacking in certain areas.  And seeing as we seem to take an age to do any deal, is there enough time to move on to new targets?

 

Of course, maybe we are a long way down the road with new signings and a couple of players will be signed unexpectedly in the next few days which would make these musings rather pointless.  It is just that I find our transfer dealings frustrating and contradictory.  I always feel that I still don't really know what Ashley wants to do with the football club other than promote Sports Direct but it often seems as if the club are playing some sort of game when it comes to transfers and the footbal and team itself, is of secondary consideration.

 

As it stands I think we are very reliant on the kids stepping up this season to play in the Cups and hoping that we don't get any major injuries.  I personally think that we might find it harder to hold on to players next Summer especially if we don't perform as well this season and it looks like the league is going to be much more competitive this year.  (I would dearly love our current players to be the ones that win a trophy for us).

 

On a slightly different note, would it make sense to pay a little more for a player like Debuchy now because surely next season with the new TV deal, transfer prices and player's wages will increase again.

 

 

 

 

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Sorry, I did read it tbf. :lol:

 

Anyway, I think we'll have to sit tight for ten more days and wait and see how things turnout before making any judgements. A number of clubs are in the same boat, I think that in recent years it's just become more of the done thing to wait nearer the end of the window to do your dealings, not sure why that is.

 

My own guess is that our policy is to identify a few targets, bid what we feels a fair price for them and if the clubs don't accept we'll walk away. I don't think we go in to windows with a transfer budget set at any cumulative number, rather we try and do good business where we can and don't pay over our valuations even if it may set the team back and mean we miss out on targets.

 

Coud be a very frustrating window if we don't get a new RB, really hope we at least get that sorted.

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Worthy of its own thread I thought Wallace, hope you don't mind.

 

Personally I'm unsure as to how I feel about the summer. I'm absolutely delighted that we've not sold anyone of note so far, though as everyone knows it always goes a bit stupid in the final week and as I've said lots of times now I'm still braced for a big unpopular sale. But keeping the squad together feels to me like it should be a given if we're wanting to progress any further, and not necessarily held up as such a great achievement. We've not significantly added to it or upgraded on it, and that's a fact. On the other hand, we know it's already a very good squad and Simpson/Debuchy aside we probably don't have the income to be able to bring in players to take us to the next level. The genuinely top tier players are simply too expensive, we've only acquired the ones we do have due to clever contract exploitation or simple punts on players that we think can improve. That's not to say it's not commendable what we've done, but it becomes increasingly difficult to replicate.

 

My biggest concern about sticking with what we've got is that if we don't have quite as successful a season as last due to the additional strains of the Europa League etc, our collection of excellent players may decide they want to play elsewhere to win things. That would bring about its own set of challenges if we are to replace them. I suppose we're approaching something of a glass ceiling.

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What is most frustrating is that we are on the cusp of having a very very good squad, but as always seems to be the way with NUFC, we never seem to push on and bolster the squad to take us to that next level (see SBR and the Bowyer season and to a certain extent the selling of Ferdinand). If you bought debuchy, a centre half and a back up striker, we really would have an exceptionally good squad, one that could genuinely push the top 4.

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Do the board have genuine ambition to improve the team or only to just keep it ticking over with the minimum investment they can get away with?

 

A happy medium. The board have genuine ambition to improve the team, with the minimum investment.

 

Sorry for picking out only one part of your post, but for me it is an important point. Our team has got better and better over recent seasons so I find it pretty depressing that people still demonstrate the fear that Ashley is still just a few steps away from his old asset stripping caricature.

 

As it stands I'd argue we are already a more exciting squad than last year. If we can hold onto our top players (and like any club, it's a valid concern that bears repeating from Pardew), and add one more to the four already through the door, I'll be absolutely delighted.

 

 

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Although, at the time of writing it's unfair to judge because there is still plenty of time to get a few new faces in but if hypothetically we get ot September 1st and we haven't got anyone else in, I must admit i'll be a bit disappointed.

 

We're a few players away from mounting a serious push for the CL and a challenge in the Europa league. I think everyone can see the three signings we could do with; A replacement right back for the blatant weak link that is Danny Simpson, another centre half so we've got 3 good defenders that we can rotate and another option up top. Now I'm not expecting to get all 3, but if we come out of this window light up top, at the back and without another RB then I really cannot see us building on last season and I really cannot see a CL push which would be a huge shame as, like hughesy said, we're on the cusp of a top quality side.

 

Now if we go into the season as we are now, we'll more than likely see Simpson, Shola and Williamson all featuring regularly and although they're decent players, they're not good enough to be a big part of the side if we want to really build on last season. I really hope we push on these last few days and the board shows a little bit more ambition.

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What is most frustrating is that we are on the cusp of having a very very good squad, but as always seems to be the way with NUFC, we never seem to push on and bolster the squad to take us to that next level (see SBR and the Bowyer season and to a certain extent the selling of Ferdinand). If you bought debuchy, a centre half and a back up striker, we really would have an exceptionally good squad, one that could genuinely push the top 4.

 

My thoughts too. Still hoping we'll get 1 or 2 in before the window closes though..

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I think and suspect that most people agree, that we are three quality players away from being in a position to seriously challenge for a Champion's League position. A Debuchy, Douglas, De Jong/Carroll type investment of around 25Million would give us a better starting 11 and some serious depth in the positions that we are short of cover.

 

Maybe Ashley is just not prepared to make that kind of investment. Maybe Pardew hasn't convinced him that we need to invest that much to seriously strengthen the team. Maybe Ashley thinks, well we did finish 5th last season with this squad, and we haven't (so far) lost any key players. However we haven't strengthened the starting team and I'm pretty sure that finishing 5th this season is going to be a lot more difficult than last season, Chelsea have certainly improved, so have Everton, and Liverpool are not really going to be that bad again are they?

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I can't be happy with things as they stand, we haven't really improved the team much, and i'm not one to be content with just not selling players. I don't think it is necessarily a lack of ambition holding us back though, just that we are maybe trying to be too clever negotiating with teams, trying to call their bluffs or whatever. I don't agree that there is plenty of time to go either, there's little over a week, we're not going to get 3 players in that time, we would be lucky to get 2 major signings(meaning not kids).

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We also need to consider and accept the state the transfer market is in this summer. It is not really moving at all. Clubs are focused on keeping their good players, clearing out the rubbish.

 

The current state of the transfer market shows this, normally PL clubs will be signing players that I would be disappointed we don't go for, but as it stands there are only 6 players out there we could have afforded and are good enough who would have been content with the role in the team on offer.

 

3 central midfielders which instead we signed Anita, 2 unproven Championship players, and one forward carrying huge baggage.

 

If a player doesn't leave their club it is hard to justify saying that we should be signing this this and this when their club hasnt been willing to let them go. And in the slow state of the transfer market you can see why because if a player leaves it is hard to sign a replacement which is just making the club worse.

 

Therefore unless when the transfer window shuts it can be shown that we are missing out on loads of available players, the club are adopting the correct policy.

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Guest BooBoo

If the window shuts without any further additions I will think we've missed a fantastic opportunity to push on and maybe challenge for that 4th spot.

 

We started the summer with intent, trying to tie up deals for Douglas and de Jong but Anita aside, the last six weeks have seen no activity. More than ever we are seemingly playing hardball with both Lille and Liverpool, expecting them to fold at that eleventh hour and hand over their players on the cheap. Risky tactic and I foresee more than a few irritated souls come Sept 1st. Then again, when do we ever get a window right?

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Honestly though, I don't think that keeping your squad together should be taken as a given. A lot of teams in your position get pillaged every season from a few key players by bigger clubs. See how Spurs lost Carrick, Berbatov, probably Modric... since they started their current revival. Hell, Arsenal are being taken the p*ss off every summer lately, and they are legitimately a step or two above you in the football ladder.

So keeping your squad together is already a big positive to take from this window. That doesn't mean of course, that new signings are/weren't necessary, of course, but I'd put more value in it than most people in this board seem to do.

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Disagree with the undertone of the OP tbh. I'm very pleased with the business we've done. Thought this question was a bit harsh especially

 

Do the board have genuine ambition to improve the team or only to just keep it ticking over with the minimum investment they can get away with?

 

Especially after we were the "big-spenders" of January with Papisto. They just don't want to pay over the odds - even by £2m.

 

Could be wrong, but the reason I think we made a move for Carroll was because being young and English, he'd have greater resale value if he came here at that price (funny, I know :lol:) and did well. Don't think necessarily that money formed part of our ordinary transfer budget, but I'm making this up as I go along O0

 

Alternatively, we could have just wanted him on loan for the season/to weaken Liverpool for a season, and then never intended to exercise the deal - or only when we did have the funds for it. We weren't going to pay the money upfront/now, remember. So to question why we're not spending the "Carroll money" on Debuchy doesn't make sense (if that is what you were driving at!).

 

The squad is lacking in certain areas, but in no area is it frighteningly lacking (eg Sunderland up front). Keeping the squad together, upgrading certain positions and bolstering one or two others would constitute a great summer for me IMO. Can't help but feel there is an expectation of too much, too soon in terms of squad development and seeking new players/targets. We don't have the financial clout to be where you seem to want us to be (e.g always seeking targets/improvements). We don't even have guaranteed Europa League football yet (and any extra income that brings). Think Ashley has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to operating within our means, personally.

 

Having said that, I'm still optimistic about the Debuchy deal going through. Waiting for the business end of the window, I think.

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I've gone on record in the past as being very cynical about Ashley's level of ambition and critical of his actions, but the way things have gone since the close of the last summer window, including this one, I am totally on board with what he's trying to do. Ultimately, he has delivered what he has set out to do, which was make the club more financially stable (not running at a loss anymore) and work towards making us competitive for the fight for European places as outlined in their five year plan. Not only has he delivered, but he has done so ahead of target and in some style too.

 

Of course I have to agree with those who are saying we have an excellent chance to challenge the top 4 if we strengthen in 3 more positions and as long as our big hitters stay fit and have a season as good as last year's. As it is, I think we are already a better side than this time last year. We've replaced Best with Cisse and Guthrie with Anita, and brought in some promising youngsters (Bigi, Amalfitano, Good) replacing some older players on higher wages, who weren't getting many games (Smith, Lovenkrands). Also, we will hopefully have a fully fit Ben Arfa in the first team for the whole season, as well as getting more games out of Saylor and Marveaux than last year. We have kept all our important players, which was always going to be crucial and shouldn't be taken for granted. Other teams have arguably strengthened too, but I feel we are good enough to aim for another European qualification, which is good enough for me at this point in time.

 

The one thing I would like clarification on is the status of Ashley's promise to invest 20 million per year into the club on an ongoing basis. As I see it, judging from the last accounts, we are almost at the point where our outgoings are covered by our incomings, so presumably any supplemented investment such as that promised 20 million could go straight towards transfer fees and wages to strengthen the squad. Also, with the new TV deal coming into effect next season, almost guaranteeing an additional income of 30 to 40 million to all Premiership clubs, we have to keep investing to stay ahead of the chasing pack whether we want to or not.

 

In summary, as long as we keep what we currently have I would classify this transfer window as good despite the lack of significant net investment. If we manage to add a full back for the first team, that would make it very good, and if on top of that we manage to strengthen the squad with dependable squad options in central defence and central attack I wouldn't hesitate to call it excellent.

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I think this summer transfer window has been an average one for us, it could have been better although it could have been a lot worse. When the club said they were interested in making several signings, I believe that was because they felt more would be off. Loven, Smith, Best and Guthrie is all that's gone and we've brought in Anita, Bigi and Amaflitano. I think the club were worried that Ba, Cisse, Cabaye or Tiote etc. would get one big bid that they couldn't turn down or the player would demand to leave. So far that's not happened and if we get to the end of the transfer window with nobody leaving it will be a fantastic achievement as we still have all the key players that got us 5th spot plus removed some dead wood and brought in some young and promising players.

 

We are still weak in a few positions though. Centre back is a little worrying, but Perch seems an acceptable stop gap assuming it's a game or two only at a time. I'm also uncertain whether Curtis Good will be ready to first team football yet. Right back is a poor position that needs strengthening as the demands on a team pushing for top 6 or more needs a stronger player in that position who is also going to offer more when pushing forward too. No idea why we haven't sealed up a deal for Debuchy, the fee issue seems a little petty as we can afford to stretch a bit further to get a great player for that position. We are pretty much sorted for wide and central midfield positions with lots of talented first team players and youth players. Up front we have 3 experienced strikers, two of them exceptionally talented, however we are weak in terms of depth. Beyond Shola, Cisse and Ba we don't have much nailed on goal scoring talent for Premier League level, yet hopes are there that Vukic, Sammy, Campbell etc. could start to contribute or may even grow to be very talented forwards.

 

I was a little against the Anita signing because I felt he would interfere with Gosling's first team chances. I'm warming to the idea more and more though as I get that Cabaye/Tiote will not always play so there will be more games for everyone with Europe added in as well. I don't mind if we don't get in a striker, but I think it's critical that we get Debuchy in for anything up to £10m, and also pick up a centre back, even if it's an experienced one over an up and coming one just so that we don't have repeat of games like the Norwich away one last year. If we can get those two players in before the transfer window closes it will be a good window. As it's stands I stick by it being average, but on the verge of plunging if we do sell a big star before then.

 

On another note, although we don't need more players for the wing I can't help but feel Adam Johnson would be brilliant if he were to leave Man City and get first team football elsewhere. Logically we shouldn't get him if it hurts our funds for a centre back and right back, but if we could get Johnson in addition to both then we would have a scary team with good depth in a variety of positions that should get us more points than last year.

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Incidentally, if we beat Spurs and Chelsea in our opening two fixtures, I wouldn't be surprised if a silly bid or two didn't come in for one of our players. Deadline window makes certain clubs crazy/reactionary/desperate.

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We are clearly practising brinkmanship on the rest of our deals, that's why Pardew can't say whether one, two or none of them will come off. Still waiting for specific situations to arise, like Liverpool being forced into sell Carroll and Lille missing the Champions League etc.

 

It's the nature of our transfer policy and it has got us good deals in the last few years. We were never going to come into this summer and splash the cash on our primary targets, we are working with much more patience than that.

 

Not suprised, but a bit tired of it. Frustration sets in slowly when you realise that we have the foundations of a very, very good squad that could seriously challenge the top four with just a few more additions.

 

On the other hand, I'd much rather have this approach than that of QPR.

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The one thing I would like clarification on is the status of Ashley's promise to invest 20 million per year into the club on an ongoing basis.

 

I know that other clubs are apparently pissing on it from great height, but wouldn't this endanger your compliance of FFP?

 

Personally, I think that Top 4 is a closed shop between London and Manchester, which is not to say you shouldn't be ambitious. But I wouldn't frustrate myself demanding a Top 4 challenge this season, or even thinking you're just 2-3 signings (that probably won't happen) away from being in that position. Rather, focus on building a team where finishing 5th-6th isn't seen as an overachieving season, but your natural place in the PL. I think you have made big strides on that regard, with the signing of Arnita and - again - retaining and having people like Santon, HBA, Cissé, Cabaye, etc... fully adapted and able to spend an entire season with you.

Look at Sunderland, they have retained Sessegnon but look at the other outstanding players they had these past years... Bent, Gyan, Cana... did any of them spend more than 18 months at the club?

Have in mind that you were promoted two years ago, and you have covered a lot more ground than anybody could expect. But building the structure and the reputation to consistently attract players and always be "in the mix" still takes more time than that. Personally, I think the aim this season is to show the world that you weren't a flash in the pan (and I think you have the quality for it).

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