Author Topic: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0  (Read 176616 times)

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Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9200 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 06:53:38 PM »
Maybe the numbers add up and this is stupid of me to ask, but why has our national debt doubled in 7 years if we've had 7 years of austerity and deficit reduction? surely smaller deficit would shrink the pace of our debt rising? and surely it would have a lowered our debt % as ratio of GDP?

it feels like deficit down through austerity, but debt level and % of gdp rising rapidly.

I know interest plays a part but I just don't get how can go up so fast like it has. Deficit down by 3 x 1/4s yet it's not working? It's as if the money we are saving isn't really transferring to slowing debt.

Inferior Acuña

  • (Grant) Geordie in Chicago
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9201 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 06:57:39 PM »
Maybe the numbers add up and this is stupid of me to ask, but why has our national debt doubled in 7 years if we've had 7 years of austerity and deficit reduction? surely smaller deficit would shrink the pace of our debt rising? and surely it would have a lowered our debt % as ratio of GDP?

it feels like deficit down through austerity, but debt level and % of gdp rising rapidly.

I know interest plays a part but I just don't get how can go up so fast like it has. Deficit down by 3 x 1/4s yet it's not working? It's as if the money we are saving isn't really transferring to slowing debt.

Because we still have a large deficit, and as long as that exists (even if it's reducing), the debt will be increasing.

BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9202 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 07:10:39 PM »
Maybe the numbers add up and this is stupid of me to ask, but why has our national debt doubled in 7 years if we've had 7 years of austerity and deficit reduction? surely smaller deficit would shrink the pace of our debt rising? and surely it would have a lowered our debt % as ratio of GDP?

it feels like deficit down through austerity, but debt level and % of gdp rising rapidly.

I know interest plays a part but I just don't get how can go up so fast like it has. Deficit down by 3 x 1/4s yet it's not working? It's as if the money we are saving isn't really transferring to slowing debt.

Because we still have a large deficit, and as long as that exists (even if it's reducing), the debt will be increasing.

Aye, and it went up so suddenly because we bailed the banks out, and continued to rise because of Quantitative Easing (I'm sure?  Please correct if not).   
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9203 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 07:30:24 PM »
Maybe the numbers add up and this is stupid of me to ask, but why has our national debt doubled in 7 years if we've had 7 years of austerity and deficit reduction? surely smaller deficit would shrink the pace of our debt rising? and surely it would have a lowered our debt % as ratio of GDP?

it feels like deficit down through austerity, but debt level and % of gdp rising rapidly.

I know interest plays a part but I just don't get how can go up so fast like it has. Deficit down by 3 x 1/4s yet it's not working? It's as if the money we are saving isn't really transferring to slowing debt.

Because we still have a large deficit, and as long as that exists (even if it's reducing), the debt will be increasing.

I get that, but what I'm asking is why has it been  so ineffective? does it really add up to what we have saved in deficit reduction versus the debt increase? 7  years in to it and our debt has still doubled? our % of debt to gdp has leapt something like 30% to nearly 90%? Are we really hemorrhaging at that scale/rate even on top of austerity to still double the debt?

Just feels like we will be in austerity for decades if you add Brexit impact on top kicking our numbers further backwards.

I'm assuming Tories banked on better growth results which in reality hasn't materialised as by product of the austerity applied?


BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9204 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 07:35:45 PM »
Austerity strangled the economy, so the deficit grew.  As far as I know, we were only as recently as last week removed from EU nations with 'extreme' deficits or words to that effect.  And aye, if Tories stay in power, we will be in austerity for decades.  I'm sure it was reported after the most recent budget that it would be at least 2030 before we were anywhere close to moving into surplus, but I could be wrong on that.  That's providing everything goes to plan, which hasn't happened a single time since they came to power.

That's what I was saying.  If they had been serious about reducing the deficit, there wouldn't have been the slashing of corporation tax, or the other tax cuts for the wealthy we've seen.  Admittedly, they did get the economy on the move again, but it was shagged out (and lopsided in favour of the rich), because most people don't have any disposable income.  Economies thrive when the poor and poorer have money to spend. 
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9205 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:03:31 PM »
Austerity strangled the economy, so the deficit grew.  As far as I know, we were only as recently as last week removed from EU nations with 'extreme' deficits or words to that effect.  And aye, if Tories stay in power, we will be in austerity for decades.  I'm sure it was reported after the most recent budget that it would be at least 2030 before we were anywhere close to moving into surplus, but I could be wrong on that.  That's providing everything goes to plan, which hasn't happened a single time since they came to power.


Nah that's right, think they said 2031. Osborne said the deficit would be gone by 2015 at one point, then 2020, and probably several other dates in between. Even tried to write it into law that a surplus was required at one point iirc.

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9206 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:10:17 PM »
‘Fury as Philip Hammond suggests disabled workers are suppressing economic productivity‘

:serious:

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9207 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:19:45 PM »


This guy should be way more famous, only person I see talking sense about the whole austerity bullshit

BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9208 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:21:00 PM »
‘Fury as Philip Hammond suggests disabled workers are suppressing economic productivity‘

:serious:

Shame I highly doubt that's the reason.   Cause it'd make it a touch ironic given all those disabled people they've spent 7 years f***ing brutalising and humiliating back into work.  Work they've been trying to tell you they can't do, you know?  And when you don't listen, quite often try and kill themselves?  How bizarre. 

You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9209 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:21:27 PM »


This guy should be way more famous, only person I see talking sense about the whole austerity bullshit

Love him.  I think it's the accent.  :aww:
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9210 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 08:33:41 PM »


This guy should be way more famous, only person I see talking sense about the whole austerity bullshit

Love that, cheers!

Dave

  • Administrator
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9211 on: Wednesday 6 December 2017, 10:42:58 PM »


Cool.

Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9212 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 07:58:39 AM »
It's awful, and sadly I don't think our country can be fixed. We've failed.

Jail terms for tax avoidance.
Fixed.

Jail terms for people doing something legal?

It would fix f*** all anyway.  It's the cruelty of our benefit system that is the problem.  People that have no idea of poverty telling those in poverty how much they need, how much is fair, to survive on.  Like the Ronaldo attitude from a few years back.  People that just arbitrarily decide that the benefits cap of 23k instead of 27k, is "fair", "more than enough", "puts you in a higher category than most people around the world", sort of bullshit.  I've had some horrible experiences over the last 6 years, and know plenty more also.  Particularly since I broke up with my ex, but aye.  Frank Field story sounds all too familiar.  Christmas is constantly miserable.  Personally speaking, I was lucky to have acquired so much in times of 'boom' that it doesn't really feel like poverty, but as far as disposable income goes, it's pretty much nonexistent. 

I'll never understand why we went down this route.  Surely you'd be prouder of being a generous nation, that, if anything at all, gives more than people need?  I don't get it, but that's what the Tories seem to do.  It's sad, and why I'll never be as content to accept their better ideas until they change the brutal tactics.  Ultimately, it's to create desperation, a desperation to do any work available, but it doesn't even f***ing work because there's only so any low skilled jobs that these poor c***s can do. 

You could stop all the tax evasion in the world, but if we don't look at our inherent cruelty to the unseen face, the unseen family, it doesn't matter a jot.  And to be honest with you, we can all be guilty of this, especially those in poverty.  They can often be the bitterest, and you see that in many on the left, and also many on the far right.

Agreed Bluf, but the state sponsored leakage of tax revenue is what gives them the economic excuse to roll out their 'benefit-scrounger' circus of hate again.

Northerngimp

  • Brexit W*nker
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9213 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 09:04:39 AM »


This guy should be way more famous, only person I see talking sense about the whole austerity bullshit

You should hear what he has to say about the EU  :iamatwat:

Ian W

  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9214 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 09:15:51 AM »
Was it Thatcher who started the idea that national debt is like personal debt? Obviously very common idea now, but quite a crafty bit of misinformation.
« Last Edit: Thursday 7 December 2017, 09:26:05 AM by Ian W »


BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9216 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 10:13:21 AM »
What a load of s****.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Ian W

  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9217 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 10:37:21 AM »
I think they back Corbyn, rather than the other way around.

Darth Crooks

  • I find your lack of Christmas hat disturbing...
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9218 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 10:50:25 AM »
Well it's a good job they mentioned Aron banks in there for credibilitirs sake.

BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9219 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 11:51:21 AM »
I'm sure they've already been looked into and nothing was found.  But along with May and other Tories going on about the student debt stuff again yesterday, they're clearly just flinging s*** and hoping it sticks.  Almost makes you wonder if they're preparing for a GE in someway.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Darth Crooks

  • I find your lack of Christmas hat disturbing...
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9220 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 12:24:52 PM »
Smart player would.

BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9221 on: Thursday 7 December 2017, 02:49:11 PM »
Hope the Scottish Labour leader gets a bit better.  Has a bit of the early days Corbyn jitters about him.  The stuff he says is fine, but the delivery a bit garbled and stuttered.     
« Last Edit: Thursday 7 December 2017, 03:00:42 PM by BlufPurdi »
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

BlufPurdi

  • Administrator
  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9222 on: Friday 8 December 2017, 10:58:58 AM »
Oh dear, even Osborne's peddling the 20% lead bullshit now:

https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938775071358930944

:facepalm:

Got a right cheek to talk about ability.  Only got a job because he was his boss' personal arse licker, soon got chipped out when Cameron left.  ABILITY~!
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.
We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.
Student says " I am very discouraged. What should I do?" Master says, "encourage others."
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
It takes a wise man to learn from his mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.
This is what should be done. By one who is skilled in goodness, and who knows the path of peace: Let them be able and upright, straightforward and gentle in speech. Humble and not conceited, contented and easily satisfied. Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways. Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful, not proud and demanding in nature. Let them not do the slightest thing that the wise would later reprove.

Ian W

  • plus d'argent, plus de problemes
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9223 on: Friday 8 December 2017, 11:16:34 AM »
Beating them but not by enough, righto.

Darth Crooks

  • I find your lack of Christmas hat disturbing...
Re: UK Politics: The Tory Years 2.0
« Reply #9224 on: Friday 8 December 2017, 11:17:03 AM »
Oh dear, even Osborne's peddling the 20% lead bullshit now:

https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938775071358930944

:facepalm:

Got a right cheek to talk about ability.  Only got a job because he was his boss' personal arse licker, soon got chipped out when Cameron left.  ABILITY~!

Waste of skin man.