Topic: Hairies vs Skinheads - which were you? (Newcastle & the 70s)

[HTT]

re htt's post about getting jumped elsewhere when a kid. it happened in the rougher areas, probably as it still does, we would go to the coast, gosforth,ponteland, at night with no problems but would keep away from scotchy, elswick, walker, byker etc.

I remember when I was a teenager and if I was say over in Bensham or even Walker, I would always get asked "where you from" and if I replied "Scotchy" I'd either get chased/beaten-up or I'd be feared and left alone not because of who I am but because of where I was from. I used to always get into bother in Fenham and Cowgate as a kid though.

I remember once I was riding down some street in Fenham with my mate on the back of me bike and from nowhere I'm basically being dragged from my bike and my mate got punched in the head. Luckily I have the gift of the gab and talked us out of more bother and getting my bike stolen.

As a kid I always used to think Newcastle was quite a tough place but now I think its more rough than tough. There are probably less gangs but more aresholes thesedays and therefore more people willing to say stab you or cause bother. Again, I think back then gangs tended to fight other gangs and any bother was always happening in that kind of culture rather than outside of it. I reckon back then gangs and their members probably feared their parents and the law as well as respected elders more. Today younger kids just don't give a f*** one way or another.

By the way when I was like 10 or something our gang was wait for it.... the much feared.... 'moosie cat' gang We thought we ruled the school, our streets, the lot.

[HTT]

I was a hairy, and I can remember when that documentary was first on television. Was still at school at the time. Must have been 1971. (Is there a production date on your copy, HTT?) Some of it seemed pretty far-fetched at the time -- sawn-off shotguns and so on -- and I remember it going on about the Gay Trooper (under what was then the Swallow Hotel on Newgate Street) as an enclave of highly dangerous hairies. I knew the Gay Trooper as one of the few underage drinking pubs in town, and while it wasn't a place skinheeds would ever venture into, I don't remember it feeling in the least bit menacing. It was a place for 15-year-olds to drink lager and lime before going to a concert at the Mayfair.

I knew some of the local skins from school, and, if we met one-on-one, relations were usually friendly. The problem was when you ran into a pack of them. Hairies mostly didn't form gangs, but skinheeds did, and yeah, as someone said above, there was one in every district.

I grew up in South Gosforth, which was home of the rather pathetic South Gosforth Mafia. The nearby Longbenton Aggro Boys ("LBAB" was felt-penned all over the place, until they changed their name to the Longbenton Clockwork) were a lot more serious and had to be avoided. My friends and I got jumped more than once while wandering around at night. We'd be in twos and threes, but there would always be f***ing loads of them. One time I remember hopping over a gate and hiding in a garden on Church Road while a seemingly endless line of skinheeds tramped along the pavement on the other side of the hedge. Another time I got a knife in the stomach, although I was lucky -- it was just a small blade and the t*** missed; I didn't get much more than a graze across my ribs.

Skins tended to like reggae (Jimmy Cliff, Judge Dread) and a bit of soul (Ike and Tina Turner); hairies were mostly into rock music (Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Groundhogs). Skins wore harrington jackets or crombie coats, gingham Ben Sherman shirts, Levi's Sta-Prest, Doc Martens, and after Clockwork Orange they also started wearing bowler hats and sometimes carrying umbrellas with a sharpened point. Hairies never looked so smart: Levi or Wrangler denim or cord jackets, greatcoats in winter, Ben Sherman (though never gingham -- I had a striped one) or Wrangler (denim or check) shirts, Levi or Wrangler jeans, or Sta-Prest, and what we used to call "riding boots" or "riders", usually brown or oxblood. "Skaries" were the harder hairies -- hair long at the sides, but cropped short on top.

I don't know about the date but I'm sure in the documentary itself the commentator mentions 1971 and I know my mate said it was early 70s.

If I were born back then I'd probably be a hairy as I love the Who and that kind of music, although clobber wise I like wearing basic clothes like a pair of jeans and a shirt so clobber wise god knows. The actual soundtrack to the documentary is some Who songs too. The documentary also shows you SJP, around Barrack Rd and the Strawberry and mentions gangs and footy. The polis inspector talking in the documentary likened some of the gangs to terrorists

Was great listening to the Geordie accent from the 70s too, it has never changed really.

Aye the mention of sawn-offs and cleavers sounds far fetched.

[OzzieMandias]

I'd love to see it again.

[OzzieMandias]

This is a really interesting thread because it's so foreign to me.  Keep the stories the coming guys, they are a great read.

yes, please do.  love reading about how it was in parts of england and comparing it to where i grew up in the usa around the same time. 

pretty sure it wasn't a uniquely newcastle thing.

Skinheads were everywhere. I can't remember "hairies" or "skaries" having those names anywhere else, though. The idea of hairy gangs was pretty local, I think.

There were also "greasers", of course, who a friend of mine once accurately described as being "like hell's angels without motorcycles".

[cp40]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

Yeah it got nutts, at one time they never used weapons it was really frowned upon by most of them. I remember the footbridge bridge over West Denton way was spray painted with a warning from the west denton wild bunch, it was there for years.
There was a Denton Burn gang to but cannot rememberer what name they went by.

guess i'm lucky most of it bypassed me, i was just into my teens when the worst of it was kicking off, then the football casual thing came along and a lot of the local rivalries died away, be it area or tribe.

Went from a skin to a casual overnight in 83, swapping doc martens for puma g villas, stonewash jeans- fila tracky.

Around this time  Whitley Bays Boys  were trying to make a name for themselves, I was working in the Olive grove at the time. the lads who worked the spanna and the bars were full of stories how theyd ran wallsend, or the rec all over whiltley etc. I had to keep quiet I was from Wallsend- Summers 84-85 South parade was like the f***ing Wild West.

[madras]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

Yeah it got nutts, at one time they never used weapons it was really frowned upon by most of them. I remember the footbridge bridge over West Denton way was spray painted with a warning from the west denton wild bunch, it was there for years.
There was a Denton Burn gang to but cannot rememberer what name they went by.

guess i'm lucky most of it bypassed me, i was just into my teens when the worst of it was kicking off, then the football casual thing came along and a lot of the local rivalries died away, be it area or tribe.

Went from a skin to a casual overnight in 83, swapping doc martens for puma g villas, stonewash jeans- fila tracky.

Around this time  Whitley Bays Boys  were trying to make a name for themselves, I was working in the Olive grove at the time. the lads who worked the spanna and the bars were full of stories how theyd ran wallsend, or the rec all over whiltley etc. I had to keep quiet I was from Wallsend- Summers 84-85 South parade was like the f***ing Wild West.

i was an 83 aswell, trim trab, ellesse lightweight jacket,fila tee, stonewashed jeans cut slightly up the side at the hem. hadn't been a skin though. anonymous looking through school so i could hide away, slightly mettalish or punkish if anything depending on how recently i'd had a hair cut. underwent quite a big change on leaving school, not least growing about 8ins in about that many months.

i guess you mean the olive grove down the coast ? i used to get in the olive grove beside the central station. i remember some of the older 'casuals' still having a bit of area rivalry with other newcastle fans (or the NME as they styled themselves)

[OzzieMandias]

Me, I wrote the first-ever magazine feature about casuals.

Honest.

[Big Geordie]

I was born in 73 and grew up in the wilds of Northumberland (Stakeford) - local gang there was STAB (Stakeford Aggro Boys) who had regular run-ins with gangs from Ashington, on the Black Bridge (railway bridge) that goes over the Wansbeck.  If I remember the question correctly that was going around school at that time (early 80's) was are you 'Heavy, Mod or Punk?' I always used to answer mod as there were more of them about, though not that I was involved in owt like that. Was a good lad, me!   

I'd love to see this documentary, btw. Just asked wor lass (she's lived in Fenham all her life - born in 68) and she remembers the West Denton Wild Bunch and the Fenham Sham.

[magpie418]

Great thread, I really want to see that doco.

I remember visiting relatives in South Shields in the mid to late 70's, they used to live around the Hill area, which was pretty rough (there was a huge Doc Martin boot spray painted on a wall with a square around it and 'Incase of Emergency Break Glass' written underneath

I also remember the Sham Army that used to hang around the Handyside Arcade in town, was always hearing stories of my mates getting filled in by them.

I remember getting a Chelsea skinhead (fringe left on) when I was about 12 and getting my first pair of Doc Martins... I also remember when the older lads I knocked about with and went to the football with changed their style and started calling themselves Casuals - wearing Fila cagoules (early 80's) - I think they were impressed with the look after a run in with the Leeds Service Crew

You'll find similar stories of gangs all over the country, and I'm sure many similar stories. I think an important point made previously is back in those days you would often become mates with those you fought with, a mutual respect of each other - you don't get that these days, the whole respect thing has become one way only.

I'm currently in Oz and have been interested in gang culture and history here, here's a little clip of the Melbourne Sharpies from the late 60's (a sort of early proto-skinhead movement) and the Mods at the time.

Sharpies and Mods - Melbourne 1966

Sharpies in 74'

Rare 1974 insight to Sharpies in Melbourne

[magpie418]

Me, I wrote the first-ever magazine feature about casuals.

Honest.

Tell us more mate, is it online?

[magpie418]

I was born in 73 and grew up in the wilds of Northumberland (Stakeford) - local gang there was STAB (Stakeford Aggro Boys) who had regular run-ins with gangs from Ashington, on the Black Bridge (railway bridge) that goes over the Wansbeck.  If I remember the question correctly that was going around school at that time (early 80's) was are you 'Heavy, Mod or Punk?' I always used to answer mod as there were more of them about, though not that I was involved in owt like that. Was a good lad, me!   

I'd love to see this documentary, btw. Just asked wor lass (she's lived in Fenham all her life - born in 68) and she remembers the West Denton Wild Bunch and the Fenham Sham.

I grew up near Seaton Delaval and remember massive battles with both Annistsford and Cramlington, always in the fields between the villages (and normally under/next to a bridge)

[madras]

I was born in 73 and grew up in the wilds of Northumberland (Stakeford) - local gang there was STAB (Stakeford Aggro Boys) who had regular run-ins with gangs from Ashington, on the Black Bridge (railway bridge) that goes over the Wansbeck.  If I remember the question correctly that was going around school at that time (early 80's) was are you 'Heavy, Mod or Punk?' I always used to answer mod as there were more of them about, though not that I was involved in owt like that. Was a good lad, me!   

I'd love to see this documentary, btw. Just asked wor lass (she's lived in Fenham all her life - born in 68) and she remembers the West Denton Wild Bunch and the Fenham Sham.

I grew up near Seaton Delaval and remember massive battles with both Annistsford and Cramlington, always in the fields between the villages (and normally under/next to a bridge)

we went to bedlington one summer saturday night about 1985 long after the tribal battles had died out in newcastle and down the main street was a battle, bedlington v blyth v ashington, just like on it's a knockout but violent, it was like an andy capp fight with a cloud of dust with feet and fists sticking out of it.

[magpie418]

Interesting chat about this here
http://bmodrevivalforums.runboard.com/t320,offset=0

Aye, interesting thread that - There's a bloke posting on there that was mentioned on another thread I've been reading recently discussing the emergence of bonehead (fascist) skinheads within the Oi! movement, bands like the Angelic Upstarts (who always classed themselves as punk but got labeled as Oi! by the likes of Garry Bushel) and the Cockney Rejects used to get loads of bother at gigs from the fascists, but what seemed to set these two bands apart from other bands who were getting attacked by fascists at the time (like Sham 69, SLF), is that both the Upstarts and the Rejects could look after themselves, and normally gave the boneheads a good kicking. The Rejects were allied with the ICF and pretty much all their gigs outside of East London turned into a riot.

I suppose that's another trajectory to this, the infiltration into working class culture of fascist politics, the late 70's early 80's skinhead scene was the perfect vehicle to be appropriated by fascist nonces like the NF - get them while they're sniffing glue...

 

[Big Geordie]

I was born in 73 and grew up in the wilds of Northumberland (Stakeford) - local gang there was STAB (Stakeford Aggro Boys) who had regular run-ins with gangs from Ashington, on the Black Bridge (railway bridge) that goes over the Wansbeck.  If I remember the question correctly that was going around school at that time (early 80's) was are you 'Heavy, Mod or Punk?' I always used to answer mod as there were more of them about, though not that I was involved in owt like that. Was a good lad, me!   

I'd love to see this documentary, btw. Just asked wor lass (she's lived in Fenham all her life - born in 68) and she remembers the West Denton Wild Bunch and the Fenham Sham.

I grew up near Seaton Delaval and remember massive battles with both Annistsford and Cramlington, always in the fields between the villages (and normally under/next to a bridge)

we went to bedlington one summer saturday night about 1985 long after the tribal battles had died out in newcastle and down the main street was a battle, bedlington v blyth v ashington, just like on it's a knockout but violent, it was like an andy capp fight with a cloud of dust with feet and fists sticking out of it.

Used to be regular rucks between Bedlington High School (where I went) and St Benet Biscop (catholic HS) - I went to watch one, but from a very safe distance. Was like something out of the old Wild West! Locals also used to scrap in 'The Domino' (the old nightclub in Bedlington Station) - regular fights between Bedlington, Ashington, Blyth and Newbiggen.

[madras]

Interesting chat about this here
http://bmodrevivalforums.runboard.com/t320,offset=0

Aye, interesting thread that - There's a bloke posting on there that was mentioned on another thread I've been reading recently discussing the emergence of bonehead (fascist) skinheads within the Oi! movement, bands like the Angelic Upstarts (who always classed themselves as punk but got labeled as Oi! by the likes of Garry Bushel) and the Cockney Rejects used to get loads of bother at gigs from the fascists, but what seemed to set these two bands apart from other bands who were getting attacked by fascists at the time (like Sham 69, SLF), is that both the Upstarts and the Rejects could look after themselves, and normally gave the boneheads a good kicking. The Rejects were allied with the ICF and pretty much all their gigs outside of East London turned into a riot.

I suppose that's another trajectory to this, the infiltration into working class culture of fascist politics, the late 70's early 80's skinhead scene was the perfect vehicle to be appropriated by fascist nonces like the NF - get them while they're sniffing glue...

 

remember there was an anti fascist angle to it aswell. for all rock against racism was started the mid 70's there was an unorganised anti fascist stand before that.

[OzzieMandias]

Me, I wrote the first-ever magazine feature about casuals.

Honest.

Tell us more mate, is it online?

I hope not as I own the copyright.

[bobbydazzla]

Be class if someone could do the honours and get the vid on Youtube. Would really like to see it.

[TheGuv]

Be class if someone could do the honours and get the vid on Youtube. Would really like to see it.

[Tooj]

I'm happy to do it if HTT   sends me it.

[TheGuv]

[bobbydazzla]

There will always be an element of rose tinted nostalgia when looking back at youth movements that were fuelled by violence. A feeling that it was more "honourable" in those days.

From Teds slashing cinema seats, Mods battling in Brighton, provincial Skins in crombies twatting anything that moved, the ICF dressed in Lacoste polo's taking an away end with a firm of 500.

But at least most of those movements were also focused on music and clothing, not just violence. So the kids must have had some sort of passion in their lives beyond kicking people's heads in.

These days, from what I can see, the scrotes who are out causing bother are just braindead little c***s in s*** tracksuits listening to utterly s**** Blue Monkey music. They seem to have no appreciation of anything other than cheap drink, s*** drugs and violence.

Or maybe it's just that I'm getting old.

[HTT]

I'm happy to do it if HTT   sends me it.

Send me a PM with details where to send and I'll gladly send it, cheers.

[bobbydazzla]

This is an interesting 1960s BBC documentary about Skinheads. Part of the Man Alive series.

Also has some good footage of original Chelsea skinheads at St James' Park in the 60's

Man Alive - What's The Truth About Skinheads - Documentary - Part 1

[TheGuv]

Did anyone sort this out?

If not i'd upload it to youtube like