Topic: Hairies vs Skinheads - which were you? (Newcastle & the 70s)

[HTT]

My mate starred in a documentary from the 70s called All Dressed Up & Going Nowhere, basically about gangs in Newcastle, in particular the Hairies and the Skinheads, and of course the Scotswood Aggro Boys. Was just wondering if anyone was a member of any of those gangs? Anyway my mate had it on VHS and transferred it to DVD for me, fascinating stuff showing parts of Newcastle from back then and to hear people talk, is something else, old school Geordie. Would I be wrong in thinking this was the birth of charverism? or charvers?

Anyhoo....

[HTT]

Just been speaking to him and he said there was far more gangs in them days (one for every postcode he said) but the difference to then and now is that back then the gangs would not for example steal someone's car or kick someone's head in unless they were another gang member, whereas he says today youngsters just don't give a f***. I asked him if Newcastle is more dangerous today than it was back then and he says without a doubt today which I find kind of sad. He disagrees with my theory that those gangs or that generation of kids was the beginning of charverism and charvers like. He says kids back then would more than likely grow up and get a job, whereas kids today grow up and become worse, forever on the dole etc. Blames parents basically and Thatcher

I remember when I was a bairn, early to late 80s and I couldn't even go to the next street without being jumped on or have my bike stolen, unlike today though, I would get my bike back and days later whoever I had a fight with, would be my mate.

Seems Newcastle was and always has been a rough place, and forever will be, certainly outside the City centre anyway.

[Stu]

Aye, I was a skinnie - proper rough times.

EDIT: Or were we the skaries? I forget. Too many bonks on the head!

[TheGuv]

I wouldn't mind if I could get a copy of that or if you could hoy it on youtube mate
I've seen plenty of footage of Whitley Bay in the late 60's early 70's with 'WBAB' written everywhere. There's still a few places with it on now.

[madras]

spookily she has just bought "all right now" a book about newcastle in the 70's, you'd like it and there are plans for an 80's.

[madras]

re htt's post about getting jumped elsewhere when a kid. it happened in the rougher areas, probably as it still does, we would go to the coast, gosforth,ponteland, at night with no problems but would keep away from scotchy, elswick, walker, byker etc.

[kingkerouac]

I think everywhere was like that.
I come from a small Lake District village and we had skins and bikers. And I remember the 'boot boys' graffitti everywhere.
On a connected note, I think the reason that most of these people grew up to have jobs, was beacuse there were still jobs there.
The Tories started dismantling British Industry in 1979, so jobs became like a fair referee at Old Trafford.
Hard to find.

[madras]

htt. it wasn't just newcastle, it was all working class areas large enough to develop rivalries.

[Skirge]

I was born in 74 but growing up around here there was always fights with the likes of The West Denton Wild Bunch & The Sham Army. The Sham were local to me and I hung around them all the time, they were mostly punks but funny enough there was a Mod who was in the gang too.

Always remember one summer two of them outside of our house playing tennis with our swingball rackets and half a house brick, they were off their heads on god knows whay. Both with bright shocking pink mohicans.
I had 18 lace up DM's when I was 10 I think, I went on and on and on for them, ox blood red they were, it had a massive influence on me as a kid. Loved the music proper hardcore punk like GBH & The Exploited.


I would love to see that documentary though mate.

[Skirge]

Interesting chat about this here
http://bmodrevivalforums.runboard.com/t320,offset=0

[OzzieMandias]

I was a hairy, and I can remember when that documentary was first on television. Was still at school at the time. Must have been 1971. (Is there a production date on your copy, HTT?) Some of it seemed pretty far-fetched at the time -- sawn-off shotguns and so on -- and I remember it going on about the Gay Trooper (under what was then the Swallow Hotel on Newgate Street) as an enclave of highly dangerous hairies. I knew the Gay Trooper as one of the few underage drinking pubs in town, and while it wasn't a place skinheeds would ever venture into, I don't remember it feeling in the least bit menacing. It was a place for 15-year-olds to drink lager and lime before going to a concert at the Mayfair.

I knew some of the local skins from school, and, if we met one-on-one, relations were usually friendly. The problem was when you ran into a pack of them. Hairies mostly didn't form gangs, but skinheeds did, and yeah, as someone said above, there was one in every district.

I grew up in South Gosforth, which was home of the rather pathetic South Gosforth Mafia. The nearby Longbenton Aggro Boys ("LBAB" was felt-penned all over the place, until they changed their name to the Longbenton Clockwork) were a lot more serious and had to be avoided. My friends and I got jumped more than once while wandering around at night. We'd be in twos and threes, but there would always be f***ing loads of them. One time I remember hopping over a gate and hiding in a garden on Church Road while a seemingly endless line of skinheeds tramped along the pavement on the other side of the hedge. Another time I got a knife in the stomach, although I was lucky -- it was just a small blade and the t*** missed; I didn't get much more than a graze across my ribs.

Skins tended to like reggae (Jimmy Cliff, Judge Dread) and a bit of soul (Ike and Tina Turner); hairies were mostly into rock music (Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Groundhogs). Skins wore harrington jackets or crombie coats, gingham Ben Sherman shirts, Levi's Sta-Prest, Doc Martens, and after Clockwork Orange they also started wearing bowler hats and sometimes carrying umbrellas with a sharpened point. Hairies never looked so smart: Levi or Wrangler denim or cord jackets, greatcoats in winter, Ben Sherman (though never gingham -- I had a striped one) or Wrangler (denim or check) shirts, Levi or Wrangler jeans, or Sta-Prest, and what we used to call "riding boots" or "riders", usually brown or oxblood. "Skaries" were the harder hairies -- hair long at the sides, but cropped short on top.

[Skirge]

I was a hairy, and I can remember when that documentary was first on television. Was still at school at the time. Must have been 1971. (Is there a production date on your copy, HTT?) Some of it seemed pretty far-fetched at the time -- sawn-off shotguns and so on -- and I remember it going on about the Gay Trooper (under what was then the Swallow Hotel on Newgate Street) as an enclave of highly dangerous hairies. I knew the Gay Trooper as one of the few underage drinking pubs in town, and while it wasn't a place skinheeds would ever venture into, I don't remember it feeling in the least bit menacing. It was a place for 15-year-olds to drink lager and lime before going to a concert at the Mayfair.

I knew some of the local skins from school, and, if we met one-on-one, relations were usually friendly. The problem was when you ran into a pack of them. Hairies mostly didn't form gangs, but skinheeds did, and yeah, as someone said above, there was one in every district.

I grew up in South Gosforth, which was home of the rather pathetic South Gosforth Mafia. The nearby Longbenton Aggro Boys ("LBAB" was felt-penned all over the place, until they changed their name to the Longbenton Clockwork) were a lot more serious and had to be avoided. My friends and I got jumped more than once while wandering around at night. We'd be in twos and threes, but there would always be f***ing loads of them. One time I remember hopping over a gate and hiding in a garden on Church Road while a seemingly endless line of skinheeds tramped along the pavement on the other side of the hedge. Another time I got a knife in the stomach, although I was lucky -- it was just a small blade and the t*** missed; I didn't get much more than a graze across my ribs.

Skins tended to like reggae (Jimmy Cliff, Judge Dread) and a bit of soul (Ike and Tina Turner); hairies were mostly into rock music (Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Groundhogs). Skins wore harrington jackets or crombie coats, gingham Ben Sherman shirts, Levi's Sta-Prest, Doc Martens, and after Clockwork Orange they also started wearing bowler hats and sometimes carrying umbrellas with a sharpened point. Hairies never looked so smart: Levi or Wrangler denim or cord jackets, greatcoats in winter, Ben Sherman (though never gingham -- I had a striped one) or Wrangler (denim or check) shirts, Levi or Wrangler jeans, or Sta-Prest, and what we used to call "riding boots" or "riders", usually brown or oxblood. "Skaries" were the harder hairies -- hair long at the sides, but cropped short on top.

Skins did love their two tone and reggae, its where my love of reggae comes from.. In the link I posted above there is a story of how the Feham Sham came to hate the West Denton Wild Bunch, all to do with .. fk it paste it in.

the sham army newcastle division (SAND)to give it its full title started about 1978 out of several gangs in west newcastle like the Elswick Mafia, Bobby Shafto aggro boys and the Fenham Sham.
There was quite a few of them,people like Karva,pottsy,sager,dingle,steda,bulger,chink,matches,gorney,wardy.
they hung around clubs like young tiffnys,the west end youth club and their main rivals were Long benton clockwork and the Wild Bunch from West Denton who they detested with a vengence because they blamed them for the death of Tony Livingston who was ran over by a bus during a gang fight in 1981.

I remember this even though I was only 7, I think Tony was a black lad or mixed race anyway they affectionately called "Tony The Wog". Its strange as skinheads are known mainly for being racist scum but I have no recollection at all of the Fenham Sham being in any way racist, they were not neo nazi skinheads in any way.

[OzzieMandias]

In the late '60s/early '70s, reggae just seemed like the worst s**** ever: one crap novelty record after another. All the Judge Dread records got into the charts but were never played on the radio because of their "obscene" content. We hairies were into prog (though it wasn't called that yet) and we just knew it was superior stuff. (The Nice were really popular in Newcastle, as were Free -- both bands with local connections; in this period I also developed a lifelong fascination with Zappa and Beefheart.)

Later in the decade reggae became all about Jah and smoking ganja and skins couldn't stamp their bovver boots to it anymore. Yeah, and then they all got into Sham 69 and stuff – especially the local version, the Angelic Upstarts. Very "white" music, all that. Two-tone was a revival, its music and image a sort of idealized hybrid of skinhead and mod, and much of it cooked up in the vision of one man. Jerry Dammers probably did more for race relations in Britain than any other individual, ever.

[madras]

In the late '60s/early '70s, reggae just seemed like the worst s**** ever: one crap novelty record after another. All the Judge Dread records got into the charts but were never played on the radio because of their "obscene" content. We hairies were into prog (though it wasn't called that yet) and we just knew it was superior stuff. (The Nice were really popular in Newcastle, as were Free -- both bands with local connections; in this period I also developed a lifelong fascination with Zappa and Beefheart.)

Later in the decade reggae became all about Jah and smoking ganja and skins couldn't stamp their bovver boots to it anymore. Yeah, and then they all got into Sham 69 and stuff – especially the local version, the Angelic Upstarts. Very "white" music, all that. Two-tone was a revival, its music and image a sort of idealized hybrid of skinhead and mod, and much of it cooked up in the vision of one man. Jerry Dammers probably did more for race relations in Britain than any other individual, ever.

there was a bit of crossing over from that very white music in the clash and the stranglers. many punks liked a bit of reggae (particularly burning spear, marley then latterly misty in roots) but not the punks "look at me" mohican and safety pin variety for whom image was all.

[madras]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

[Skirge]

In the late '60s/early '70s, reggae just seemed like the worst s**** ever: one crap novelty record after another. All the Judge Dread records got into the charts but were never played on the radio because of their "obscene" content. We hairies were into prog (though it wasn't called that yet) and we just knew it was superior stuff. (The Nice were really popular in Newcastle, as were Free -- both bands with local connections; in this period I also developed a lifelong fascination with Zappa and Beefheart.)

Later in the decade reggae became all about Jah and smoking ganja and skins couldn't stamp their bovver boots to it anymore. Yeah, and then they all got into Sham 69 and stuff – especially the local version, the Angelic Upstarts. Very "white" music, all that. Two-tone was a revival, its music and image a sort of idealized hybrid of skinhead and mod, and much of it cooked up in the vision of one man. Jerry Dammers probably did more for race relations in Britain than any other individual, ever.

there was a bit of crossing over from that very white music in the clash and the stranglers. many punks liked a bit of reggae (particularly burning spear, marley then latterly misty in roots) but not the punks "look at me" mohican and safety pin variety for whom image was all.

Hmmm the punks I knew were all into mohicans, bondage pants, crombies, DM's and they loved their reggae once they were all stoned mind.

[Skirge]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

Yeah it got nutts, at one time they never used weapons it was really frowned upon by most of them. I remember the footbridge bridge over West Denton way was spray painted with a warning from the west denton wild bunch, it was there for years.
There was a Denton Burn gang to but cannot rememberer what name they went by.

[madras]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

Yeah it got nutts, at one time they never used weapons it was really frowned upon by most of them. I remember the footbridge bridge over West Denton way was spray painted with a warning from the west denton wild bunch, it was there for years.
There was a Denton Burn gang to but cannot rememberer what name they went by.

guess i'm lucky most of it bypassed me, i was just into my teens when the worst of it was kicking off, then the football casual thing came along and a lot of the local rivalries died away, be it area or tribe.

[Skirge]

i remember that kid getting run over by the bus. it wasn't long after a someone dropped a concrete paving slab on someones chest in a fight with the hewbiggin hall agro boys (NHAB) on marley dip.

Yeah it got nutts, at one time they never used weapons it was really frowned upon by most of them. I remember the footbridge bridge over West Denton way was spray painted with a warning from the west denton wild bunch, it was there for years.
There was a Denton Burn gang to but cannot rememberer what name they went by.

guess i'm lucky most of it bypassed me, i was just into my teens when the worst of it was kicking off, then the football casual thing came along and a lot of the local rivalries died away, be it area or tribe.

Yeah the football violence really took the postcode gang thing and moulded it into one, I was really young but remember seeing them roam the streets, I lived really close to a lot of the Fenham Sham Army and being young they looked out for me.. I got no stick
People like Alex Duncan who was well known as a hard fker.

[OzzieMandias]

In the late '60s/early '70s, reggae just seemed like the worst s**** ever: one crap novelty record after another. All the Judge Dread records got into the charts but were never played on the radio because of their "obscene" content. We hairies were into prog (though it wasn't called that yet) and we just knew it was superior stuff. (The Nice were really popular in Newcastle, as were Free -- both bands with local connections; in this period I also developed a lifelong fascination with Zappa and Beefheart.)

Later in the decade reggae became all about Jah and smoking ganja and skins couldn't stamp their bovver boots to it anymore. Yeah, and then they all got into Sham 69 and stuff – especially the local version, the Angelic Upstarts. Very "white" music, all that. Two-tone was a revival, its music and image a sort of idealized hybrid of skinhead and mod, and much of it cooked up in the vision of one man. Jerry Dammers probably did more for race relations in Britain than any other individual, ever.

there was a bit of crossing over from that very white music in the clash and the stranglers. many punks liked a bit of reggae (particularly burning spear, marley then latterly misty in roots) but not the punks "look at me" mohican and safety pin variety for whom image was all.

The whole mohican thing came later. The fascination with reggae was strongest in early punk, and it wasn't just the Clash -- also the Members and other bands. A lot of it had to do with Don Letts being the DJ at the Roxy in Covent Garden, and in the absence of punk records (no one had made any yet) had span a bit of reggae. But also some punks had been skins.

There was no real continuity between the original skins and Two-Tone, though. In the wake of the Specials it all came back in a different form.

[cubaricho]

This is a really interesting thread because it's so foreign to me.  Keep the stories the coming guys, they are a great read.

[bulivye]

This is a really interesting thread because it's so foreign to me.  Keep the stories the coming guys, they are a great read.

yes, please do.  love reading about how it was in parts of england and comparing it to where i grew up in the usa around the same time. 

[madras]

This is a really interesting thread because it's so foreign to me.  Keep the stories the coming guys, they are a great read.

yes, please do.  love reading about how it was in parts of england and comparing it to where i grew up in the usa around the same time. 

pretty sure it wasn't a uniquely newcastle thing.

[HTT]

Wow, I didn't even think I'd get a reply. I love owt like this me, anything to do with Newcastle and its history, especially if its close to home so to speak, so cheers for the responses, makes for really good reading. I have the documentary on a CD my mate made for me and I can happily post it to one of yous. Sadly I wouldn't know how to make copies or put it up on the web. Drop me a PM whoever wants it.

[madras]

Wow, I didn't even think I'd get a reply. I love owt like this me, anything to do with Newcastle and its history, especially if its close to home so to speak, so cheers for the responses, makes for really good reading. I have the documentary on a CD my mate made for me and I can happily post it to one of yous. Sadly I wouldn't know how to make copies or put it up on the web. Drop me a PM whoever wants it.

better still, pass it onto someone on here who can youtube it. (lets face it i mean tooj)