Author Topic: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...  (Read 1003 times)

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indi

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Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #75 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 02:23:05 PM »
Theres plenty of oil in Scotland isn't there?

There's a bit, but what industry do they have when it runs out.

Whisky and haggis farming

True, but the amount of tax made on oil must supplement quite a bit of the scottish economy.

Something that never seems to get mentioned is even if the oil ends up being under Scottish territorial waters, the companies who are exploiting it are not Scottish and will not choose to be, meaning that most of the profits from the oil would leave the country.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #76 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:13:05 PM »
Theres plenty of oil in Scotland isn't there?

There's a bit, but what industry do they have when it runs out.

Whisky and haggis farming

True, but the amount of tax made on oil must supplement quite a bit of the scottish economy.

Something that never seems to get mentioned is even if the oil ends up being under Scottish territorial waters, the companies who are exploiting it are not Scottish and will not choose to be, meaning that most of the profits from the oil would leave the country.

Would the scots not then tax the oil companies appropraitely ?

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #77 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:16:06 PM »
There's going to be one hell of an argument about where the offshore boundary goes and which oilfields belong to which country.

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #78 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:19:15 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #79 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:23:58 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #80 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:29:49 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #81 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:34:59 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #82 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:39:41 PM »
They'll have some massive problems getting finance as well (the government of the new independent Scotland).

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #83 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:41:01 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


No, the building economy, software, tourism etc were great. We just went to far and put nothing aside for a rainy day.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #84 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:44:34 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


No, the building economy, software, tourism etc were great. We just went to far and put nothing aside for a rainy day.

So where did all the money come from to suddenly start a massive building program?

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #85 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 03:48:59 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


No, the building economy, software, tourism etc were great. We just went to far and put nothing aside for a rainy day.

So where did all the money come from to suddenly start a massive building program?
We have a low corporation tax so there's a lot foreign companies here. Obviously some borrowing was required and we'd have been fine if people during the boom had been more careful with spending etc. What f***ed us up was people beeing able to take out a 110% + mortgage or mortgage top ups to afford a foreign holiday and/or new car. If we had better regulation of internal affairs we'd not be in this mess.

indi

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  • Death to David Pleat.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #86 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 04:01:01 PM »
Theres plenty of oil in Scotland isn't there?

There's a bit, but what industry do they have when it runs out.

Whisky and haggis farming

True, but the amount of tax made on oil must supplement quite a bit of the scottish economy.

Something that never seems to get mentioned is even if the oil ends up being under Scottish territorial waters, the companies who are exploiting it are not Scottish and will not choose to be, meaning that most of the profits from the oil would leave the country.

Would the scots not then tax the oil companies appropraitely ?

Yeah, but there's more to live than taxes. Every major "Scottish" company will have a major decision to make about whether to remain British, or become Scottish and there'd be a significant risk in moving from one of the world's largest economies to a brand new country which would be starting from scratch. I don't think many will see that as being in their business interests and most will stay British and pay the majority of their taxes to the UK.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #87 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 04:45:00 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


No, the building economy, software, tourism etc were great. We just went to far and put nothing aside for a rainy day.

So where did all the money come from to suddenly start a massive building program?
We have a low corporation tax so there's a lot foreign companies here. Obviously some borrowing was required and we'd have been fine if people during the boom had been more careful with spending etc. What f***ed us up was people beeing able to take out a 110% + mortgage or mortgage top ups to afford a foreign holiday and/or new car. If we had better regulation of internal affairs we'd not be in this mess.

So where has all this industry gone?  Has the Irish gov had to put taxes up to make up for the short fall in the economy?

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #88 on: Sunday 29 January 2012, 05:00:10 PM »
If they want to be Independent and a majority vote for it then it should happen, regardless of how the rest of the UK feels about it IMO.

I totally agree and i dont think anyone disagrees...I think everyone is just wondering how they will fund and maintain what they already have with only a population of 5 mil.
Well Ireland was doing fine with under 4 million(the recession is simply the result of bad management). Its possible tbh.

IMO the biggest downside in all of this is the Tory's will probably landslide every election :lol:

Ireland, was it not reckless borrowing to inflate an economy that was never there in the first place, hence why all the money has vansihed??


No, the building economy, software, tourism etc were great. We just went to far and put nothing aside for a rainy day.

So where did all the money come from to suddenly start a massive building program?
We have a low corporation tax so there's a lot foreign companies here. Obviously some borrowing was required and we'd have been fine if people during the boom had been more careful with spending etc. What f***ed us up was people beeing able to take out a 110% + mortgage or mortgage top ups to afford a foreign holiday and/or new car. If we had better regulation of internal affairs we'd not be in this mess.

So where has all this industry gone?  Has the Irish gov had to put taxes up to make up for the short fall in the economy?
The building industry collapsed because people started undercutting prices and were doing the job for less than they could afford and the arse fell out of it. Taxes have gone up alright.

80

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Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #89 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 02:01:06 AM »
The Money Fairy, what are you stupid or something?

Stupid me aye.

But seriously, they'll have to have some serious reform if they think they can give all the pubilc "free" services.

Knew you'd get chippy at that :lol: I agree with you. Even 'if' they got all the oil and it all went smooth as butter re: taxation, it wouldn't cover all the things they get now, let alone the extra stuff the SNP claim they could have. I made a post in the politics thread the other day which set out some stuff.
Maturity is not Passivity.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #90 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 02:20:56 AM »
one way to look at it is that we in the north get left with a tory government for years.

the other way is that we allow the shortbread tins independence then invade the twats, aside from stepping round the sheep s*** it woulodn't be too difficuilt.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Decky

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Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #91 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 03:00:40 AM »
A whole host of opportunities could appear for Newcastle being a border city. Places like Newry on the Irish border thrive with southern shoppers trying to escape the euro.
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Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #92 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 03:13:43 AM »
Ireland also received a lot of support (and still do) from the EU during there boom and decline.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #93 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 03:29:16 AM »
Theres plenty of oil in Scotland isn't there?

There's a bit, but what industry do they have when it runs out.

Whisky and haggis farming

True, but the amount of tax made on oil must supplement quite a bit of the scottish economy.

Something that never seems to get mentioned is even if the oil ends up being under Scottish territorial waters, the companies who are exploiting it are not Scottish and will not choose to be, meaning that most of the profits from the oil would leave the country.

Would the scots not then tax the oil companies appropraitely ?

Yeah, but there's more to live than taxes. Every major "Scottish" company will have a major decision to make about whether to remain British, or become Scottish and there'd be a significant risk in moving from one of the world's largest economies to a brand new country which would be starting from scratch. I don't think many will see that as being in their business interests and most will stay British and pay the majority of their taxes to the UK.

Wonder if Alex Salmond would answer the question of what would've happened had scotland been independent during the financial crisis - two of the world's top banks, and most affected banks, HBOS and RBS, were based in Scotland. It would've basically finished the country off to bail them out. the bailouts would've been many magnitudes larger than those needed in Ireland.

Scotland needs to admit they have the best of both worlds right now - ability to make their own policies and get the rest of the UK to help pay for it, or at least to shield scotland from the full-on financial consequences of their policies.

there'd be no such fiscal freedom in an independent state. all this free tuition, free prescription stuff isn't going to last once they have independence. personally having lived in scotland i think they've got it great - one last hold-out against the evil forces of neo-liberalism who seek to f*** over everything and turn all our cherished services into profit-driven entreprises. i used to think it was unfair that Scots got their university tuition for free, and it basically is unfair on the English students, but now i just see it as "oh well, at least there's one place that's not f***ed it up yet".

Then there's all the f***ing bureaucracy and mind-numbing minutiae that would have to be addressed and sorted out in the event of independence. not least for the hundreds and thousands of english in scotland and 800,000 scots in england. or anyone who frequently travels or does business in both countries. which is every company in the UK. and how do you divide up north sea fossil fuels? or the london-based companies who mine there? and the armed forces loyal to the Queen? what do they do with their currency? make a new one? then what happens if exchange rates fluctuate so that bread costs twice as much in gretna than in carlisle? basically they'd have to peg it to the UK pound sterling - so much for true independence there. maybe they'd join the Euro after all. superb timing that would be  :iamatwat: What about crossing the border - as a new EU nation will they sign up to Schengen? gonna need passport checks at Edinburgh Waverley then? It'll no doubt make moving house or moving jobs between one area of what is now the UK to another more of a hassle too.

Nah, it's a f***ing s*** idea when you get down to it, based on little more than a bloody mel gibson movie.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #94 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 03:38:57 AM »
A whole host of opportunities could appear for Newcastle being a border city. Places like Newry on the Irish border thrive with southern shoppers trying to escape the euro.

it's not really though - Berwick is, Gretna is, Carlisle is to an extent. we're 50 miles from the border. and as the southern govt hate us they're never likely to give us a proper motorway to Edinburgh to speed up integration and connections between those two cities. c***s.

I think England would be eternally f***ed if scotland left. we work well together to limit the amount of elections the tories can win. without our scottish brethren i can't see the tories losing another election for decades.

Re: Scottish Independence - Whats Your Take On It...
« Reply #95 on: Monday 30 January 2012, 07:54:28 AM »
Quote
Knew you'd get chippy at that  I agree with you. Even 'if' they got all the oil and it all went smooth as butter re: taxation, it wouldn't cover all the things they get now, let alone the extra stuff the SNP claim they could have. I made a post in the politics thread the other day which set out some stuff.

I forgot to put my smiley in man  :lol:  Knew what you were getting at  :thup: