Topic: Sexual Abuse

[Ian W]

Not a far comparison at all, bit surprised you think it is.

Smoking causes damage to the body that will eventually lead to disease (presumably to everyone if they lived for 100s of years).

But the link between thought and action is far more complex than that. Given long enough, anyone who has ever had a deviant thought will act that out? I totally disagree.

Can you please give a full elaboration of why you disagree ? I am most interested to hear, since I am arguing on Facebook that watching porn is harmless, despite all the abusive messages porn contains. (ie your position)

My opponent rebut by showing me a correlation between porn prevalence and sexual abuse case no. I am lazy to quote the studies, take my words for it.

Determinism plays a huge part in our debate. In effect, he has provided me scientific studies showing that determinism works. I have nothing concrete to rebut bar my own personal experience (which of course is subjective and bias)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

Determinism doesn't say a single deviant thought will be acted out. Determinism says that the single thought is part of the huge complex web of factors that contribute to your eventual action.

So, the more abusive thoughts you have, the more likely you will be carrying out abusive actions and be phyisically abusive.

So those who indulge in porn, is more likely to abuse sexually etc.

It makes sense to be honest. Which mean Ia m being an asshole for taking up my position of arguing porn is harmless.

I'm not disagreeing with determinism really, I agree that mental states lead to actions. This is a slightly different question to where we started though, which was me arguing that a thought could not in itself be abusive.

I also don't have any info on whether porn is or isn't harmless, as a whole. Personally I don't believe it always is. But if you are supporting an industry in which people are abused, then you have to take your fair share of the responsibility (although individually it might be small). A similar reason to why I wouldn't buy drugs.

You could argue that watching porn in which the participants have consented is actually avoiding any potential abuse, as it allows sexual release.

[Kaizero]

I'm betting Delima has a big fat w*** to this thread right now, abusing all of us reading about us saying we abuse people. "Acedemic interest" my arse.

[Blefuscu]

Have we somehow accidentally stepped into "1984". Are there now thought police around. FFS how can a thought or fantasy that is not acted out be abusive if the person you are thinking or fantasising about never knows about it? Naivity (nearly wrote nativity there,  ) to abuse not being an excuse is only applicable if you are the person doing the abusing surely. If someone fantasises about you and you don't know about it how can you claim to have been abused ffs?

No, Blefuscu. Don't put words into my mouth.  Would that be considered as sexual abuse? 

As I have repeatedly stated, I am not here to judge. I have defined what constitutes sexual abuse, for the sake of polling and discussion within this thread. If you disagree with my definition, dispute it, as others have done. Don't claim I am here to superimpose my morals and judgements to anyone. What are you on about? When did I claim that you have "superinposed...morals and judgements"?

I said the thought is abusive. I said the thought carrier is being abusive. I did not say that the subject of fantasy is being sexually abused. Read properly please, a polite request.Surely if there is an abuse committed then there is an abused? A thought that doesn't become a the action that was initially thought of cannot be abuse, its just a thought.

[Mowen]

FFS anyone replying to this thread seriously is as bad as Delima. Just ask a silly question about jizzing into a bucket or something.

[Colo's Short and Curlies]

FFS anyone replying to this thread seriously is as bad as Delima. Just ask a silly question about jizzing into a bucket or something.

Did the bucket consent?

Does a latex doll/sheep consent?

These questions need answering. I'm rigning Alan Robson to put it to the nation (is he still alive/doing the Nightowls/perving over young girls doing cheerleading?)

[Mr Logic]

Thought is ultimately more important than action. Action follows thought despite how we often get the impression it's the other way round. Quantum physics 101.

[Colo's Short and Curlies]

Thought is ultimately more important than action. Action follows thought despite how we often get the impression it's the other way round. Quantum physics 101.

Trust me, some of the beasts I woke up with were definitely a case of acting before thinking

[Chief Piggum]

My hand never says no

[Delima]

Have we somehow accidentally stepped into "1984". Are there now thought police around. FFS how can a thought or fantasy that is not acted out be abusive if the person you are thinking or fantasising about never knows about it? Naivity (nearly wrote nativity there,  ) to abuse not being an excuse is only applicable if you are the person doing the abusing surely. If someone fantasises about you and you don't know about it how can you claim to have been abused ffs?

No, Blefuscu. Don't put words into my mouth.  Would that be considered as sexual abuse?  No Blefuscu. It is nothing sexual.

As I have repeatedly stated, I am not here to judge. I have defined what constitutes sexual abuse, for the sake of polling and discussion within this thread. If you disagree with my definition, dispute it, as others have done. Don't claim I am here to superimpose my morals and judgements to anyone. What are you on about? When did I claim that you have "superinposed...morals and judgements"? I apologise for my misintepretation

I said the thought is abusive. I said the thought carrier is being abusive. I did not say that the subject of fantasy is being sexually abused. Read properly please, a polite request.Surely if there is an abuse committed then there is an abused? A thought that doesn't become a the action that was initially thought of cannot be abuse, its just a thought.You have a point there if there is an abuse there should be an abused. However the abused does not realise that (s)he has been abused. You yourself said "If someone fantasises about you and you don't know about it how can you claim to have been abused ffs?". Of course I cannot claim to be abused if I am not aware of it. However in the abusive perpetrator's mind I have been abused, despite me not knowing about it. An abusive thought may or may not develope into a physical abuse, it remains an abusive thought nonetheless

[Blefuscu]

Thought is ultimately more important than action. Action follows thought despite how we often get the impression it's the other way round. Quantum physics 101.

May well be, but just because you think something doesn't mean you will go on and do it does it?

[Delima]

I'm betting Delima has a big fat w*** to this thread right now, abusing all of us reading about us saying we abuse people. "Acedemic interest" my arse.

I kindly ask you to stop all these abusive sexual innuendos on me. Otherwise I may have to report you.

[Kaizero]

I'm betting Delima has a big fat w*** to this thread right now, abusing all of us reading about us saying we abuse people. "Acedemic interest" my arse.

I kindly ask you to stop all these abusive sexual innuendos on me. Otherwise I may have to report you.

You are such an amusing person, you have no idea

[Delima]

I'm not disagreeing with determinism really, I agree that mental states lead to actions. This is a slightly different question to where we started though, which was me arguing that a thought could not in itself be abusive.Point taken regarding topic of discussion. I maintain that the thought can be abusive, as have been explained previously

I also don't have any info on whether porn is or isn't harmless, as a whole. Personally I don't believe it always is. But if you are supporting an industry in which people are abused, then you have to take your fair share of the responsibility (although individually it might be small). A similar reason to why I wouldn't buy drugs.For the sake of the argument/discussion, let us restrict the scope to porn that carries abusive slant, eg voyeurisitic porn, group rape porn, sexist porn, paedophilic porn etc. I agree that by sourcing the porn ethically (by buying from reputable legal porn company) we help reduce the abuse suffered by the porn stars (rape, economic abuse, working condition, welfare etc). However this does nothing to the abusive content of porn

You could argue that watching porn in which the participants have consented is actually avoiding any potential abuse, as it allows sexual release.Determinism, which you agree to, argues that watching abusive porn contributes to abusive action. To avoid this yet to be sexually fulfilled, You could and you should achieve sexual satisfaction via non-abusive means such as f***ing your girlfriend, f***ing a con-sensual female friend, f***ing a prostitute, f***ing a male friend, watching erotica (non abusive porn) etc

[Delima]

May well be, but just because you think something doesn't mean you will go on and do it does it?

No, but your thinking of it betrays your intent and if you are Ok with the intent, you are more likely to act it out.

[Delima]

You are such an amusing person, you have no idea

I don't typically use smilies to express the satisfaction of seeing my deadpan working.

Shitty humour aside, - the message is real.

[Pilko]

I'm betting Delima has a big fat w*** to this thread right now, abusing all of us reading about us saying we abuse people. "Acedemic interest" my arse.

I kindly ask you to stop all these abusive sexual innuendos on me. Otherwise I may have to report you.

Better pack it in lads, don't want the boys in blue to get us.

[Kaizero]

I'm betting Delima has a big fat w*** to this thread right now, abusing all of us reading about us saying we abuse people. "Acedemic interest" my arse.

I kindly ask you to stop all these abusive sexual innuendos on me. Otherwise I may have to report you.

Better pack it in lads, don't want the boys in blue to get us.

Nah man, they can't touch us. It would be sexual abuse.

[Interpolic]

The funniest thing about this for me is that Delima has implied that he holds the more moderate views on abuse out of him and the guy he is debating with. 

[Delima]

The funniest thing about this for me is that Delima has implied that he holds the more moderate views on abuse out of him and the guy he is debating with. 

Can you please be specific, Interpolic.

[Kaizero]

The funniest thing about this for me is that Delima has implied that he holds the more moderate views on abuse out of him and the guy he is debating with. 

Can you please be specific, Interpolic.

Just read almost  all of your posts in this thread man

[Kaizero]

On a serious note though, Delima. Can I ask how old you are? You see, I just don't feel right talking down to someone if they're 12 years and just a bit sexually curious.

[Interpolic]

The funniest thing about this for me is that Delima has implied that he holds the more moderate views on abuse out of him and the guy he is debating with. 

Can you please be specific, Interpolic.

OK, just had a quick look through your posts (you're mental btw, well done) and your friend takes the position that all porn is abuse, does he not?  That means you're fundamentally more moderate, and more in line with the popular modern outlook on it.

[Pilko]

On a serious not though, Delima. Can I ask how old you are? You see, I just don't feel right talking down to someone if they're 12 years and just a bit sexually curious.

[Colo's Short and Curlies]

On a serious not though, Delima. Can I ask how old you are? You see, I just don't feel right talking down to someone if they're 12 years and just a bit sexually curious.

I also thought Delima was a lass :colo:

[Delima]

The funniest thing about this for me is that Delima has implied that he holds the more moderate views on abuse out of him and the guy he is debating with. 

Can you please be specific, Interpolic.

OK, just had a quick look through your posts (you're mental btw, well done) and your friend takes the position that all porn is abuse, does he not?  That means you're fundamentally more moderate, and more in line with the popular modern outlook on it.

Sorry I misunderstood you the first time. You are right.

Technically I shouldn't say I am more moderate, but I commit and am tolerant of certain mental abuse.

And what is more popular and modern has nothing to do with abuse. Vast majority of the modern, popular  food are very abusive, and alot more abusive than "historical" food, for example.