Topic: Northern (and Southern) Ireland

[Blefuscu]

My guess is bigotted sectarian housing policy is to blame.

Well that's exactly what it was. It used to be that both sides happily co-habited in the same council estates but then with the outbreak of the Troubles housing was divided on what religion you followed, which of course only increased a lot of the problems.

And is continued by small minded fuckwits who cannot realise that there is no fundamental difference between Catholics and Protestants, or Nationalists and Loyalists.

[ewerk]

My guess is bigotted sectarian housing policy is to blame.

Well that's exactly what it was. It used to be that both sides happily co-habited in the same council estates but then with the outbreak of the Troubles housing was divided on what religion you followed, which of course only increased a lot of the problems.

And is continued by small minded fuckwits who cannot realise that there is no fundamental difference between Catholics and Protestants, or Nationalists and Loyalists.

Mmmmm, no fundamental difference in Nationalists and Loyalists? Politics isn't your strong point dear, is it?

[Blefuscu]

My guess is bigotted sectarian housing policy is to blame.

Well that's exactly what it was. It used to be that both sides happily co-habited in the same council estates but then with the outbreak of the Troubles housing was divided on what religion you followed, which of course only increased a lot of the problems.

And is continued by small minded fuckwits who cannot realise that there is no fundamental difference between Catholics and Protestants, or Nationalists and Loyalists.

Mmmmm, no fundamental difference in Nationalists and Loyalists? Politics isn't your strong point dear, is it?

I meant as people. The problem with some sections of Northern Ireland is that they are more concerned about your political viewpoint than anything else. At the end of the day they forget that the person stood in front of them is a person and catagorise them as good or bad depending on what their political allegiance is. And that goes for nationalists and Loyalists alike. f***ing primitive, idiotic behaviour and something I certainly don't miss at all.

[ewerk]

I meant as people. The problem with some sections of Northern Ireland is that they are more concerned about your political viewpoint than anything else. At the end of the day they forget that the person stood in front of them is a person and catagorise them as good or bad depending on what their political allegiance is. And that goes for nationalists and Loyalists alike. f***ing primitive, idiotic behaviour and something I certainly don't miss at all.

Well the same could be said for every single conflict in the world, I don't get its relevance to the discussion on Orange marches.

[Blefuscu]

I meant as people. The problem with some sections of Northern Ireland is that they are more concerned about your political viewpoint than anything else. At the end of the day they forget that the person stood in front of them is a person and catagorise them as good or bad depending on what their political allegiance is. And that goes for nationalists and Loyalists alike. f***ing primitive, idiotic behaviour and something I certainly don't miss at all.

Well the same could be said for every single conflict in the world, I don't get its relevance to the discussion on Orange marches.

Really? Then you can hardly call me clueless then can you?

[ewerk]

Given the overall situation I don't think the 'Why can't we all just get along?' argument cuts much ice tbh.

[Decky]

Blefuscu you are missing the point, regardless of who does what in the nationalist areas, if a march through them streets causes trouble, then it should not happen. You wont get people in those areas changing their views, but what you can do is get the Orange Order to march down a different road for public safety reasons. Is that not what should happen here? Or maybe they should continue to march through areas like Ardoyne, causing all kinds of trouble, seeing as they have their right to? What about the rights of the innocent people caught up in the violence, violence cause because of these marches that could easily be avoided?

Also have you ever been to Ardoyne? It isnt about having the freedom to march where ever they want, it is blatantly obvious that the Orange Order march through areas like this in a bid to cause trouble and wind people up. The Orange Order despise people in those areas, I can tell you that with first hand experience, so it is hardly surprising.

[Blefuscu]

Blefuscu you are missing the point, regardless of who does what in the nationalist areas, if a march through them streets causes trouble, then it should not happen. You wont get people in those areas changing their views, but what you can do is get the Orange Order to march down a different road for public safety reasons. Is that not what should happen here? Or maybe they should continue to march through areas like Ardoyne, causing all kinds of trouble, seeing as they have their right to?

Also have you ever been to Ardoyne? It isnt about having the freedom to march where ever they want, it is blatantly obvious that the Orange Order march through areas like this in a bid to cause trouble and wind people up. The Orange Order despise people in those areas, I can tell you that with first hand experience, so it is hardly surprising.

Ardoyne is a blackspot in any case, and has been throughout the Troubles. The parade commissioner gives permission for the routes. People need to rise above the "winding people up" mentality. It would probably annoy the Orange order and the Loyalists more if the Nationalists ignored the marches completely and gave them no attention whatsoever.

[Decky]

it's always puzzled me why they don't tell the orangemen. ok you can march if we can. and have a nationalist march maybe on the date of the founding of the republic.

There are marches are Easter for the Easter Rising. If they went through Unionist areas it would be chaos.

[Decky]

Blefuscu you are missing the point, regardless of who does what in the nationalist areas, if a march through them streets causes trouble, then it should not happen. You wont get people in those areas changing their views, but what you can do is get the Orange Order to march down a different road for public safety reasons. Is that not what should happen here? Or maybe they should continue to march through areas like Ardoyne, causing all kinds of trouble, seeing as they have their right to?

Also have you ever been to Ardoyne? It isnt about having the freedom to march where ever they want, it is blatantly obvious that the Orange Order march through areas like this in a bid to cause trouble and wind people up. The Orange Order despise people in those areas, I can tell you that with first hand experience, so it is hardly surprising.

Ardoyne is a blackspot in any case, and has been throughout the Troubles.

So why march through there if it guarantees trouble?

[Blefuscu]

Blefuscu you are missing the point, regardless of who does what in the nationalist areas, if a march through them streets causes trouble, then it should not happen. You wont get people in those areas changing their views, but what you can do is get the Orange Order to march down a different road for public safety reasons. Is that not what should happen here? Or maybe they should continue to march through areas like Ardoyne, causing all kinds of trouble, seeing as they have their right to?

Also have you ever been to Ardoyne? It isnt about having the freedom to march where ever they want, it is blatantly obvious that the Orange Order march through areas like this in a bid to cause trouble and wind people up. The Orange Order despise people in those areas, I can tell you that with first hand experience, so it is hardly surprising.

Ardoyne is a blackspot in any case, and has been throughout the Troubles.

So why march through there if it guarantees trouble?

I dunno. Its up to them where they march. Would you want to be told where you can and cannot go? There is blame on both sides, but being hypersensitive about stuff like some stuffed shirts marching, followed by a bunch of hangers on who are being heckled by an equally idiotic lot who disagree with them is just madness.

[Decky]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

[Blefuscu]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads. I see where you and Ewerk are coming from. Aye it antagonises people, but the parades commission exists to decide where parades in Northern Ireland are allowed to go. There is part of me that would like to see them avoid Drumcree, Ormeau Road and the likes, but then I also agree that the Orange order and the green orange order should have the right to march where they want to.

And I am leaving it at that.

[Decky]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads.

If they were marching in Britain, then yeah.

[Blefuscu]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads.

If they were marching in Britain, then yeah.

Don't start that Decky.

[SEMTEX]

Blef's bedroom...

[Blefuscu]

Blef's bedroom...

  You forgot my Michael Jackson poster dan. 

[SEMTEX]

I just liked the picture tbh 

[ewerk]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads. I see where you and Ewerk are coming from. Aye it antagonises people, but the parades commission exists to decide where parades in Northern Ireland are allowed to go. There is part of me that would like to see them avoid Drumcree, Ormeau Road and the likes, but then I also agree that the Orange order and the green orange order should have the right to march where they want to.

And I am leaving it at that.

Oh dear, 'The Queen's highways', straight out of the Orange Order's excuses book.

Clearly you're not grasping the point here so I'll try to dumb it down for you. Say the Mackems hammered us in a Cup final 50 years ago and decided to parade through the streets of Newcastle every year to celebrate this victory, there'd be hell on. Yes, it would be petty to carry out such a march and you could guarantee that there'd be plenty of people abusing the march and causing trouble. Should such a march be allowed to happen because people have the 'right' to march on the Queen's highways? Or should it be banned in order to avoid trouble on the streets of Newcastle?

I know its a silly scenario but I'm trying to make things as easy as I can for you.

[Blefuscu]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads. I see where you and Ewerk are coming from. Aye it antagonises people, but the parades commission exists to decide where parades in Northern Ireland are allowed to go. There is part of me that would like to see them avoid Drumcree, Ormeau Road and the likes, but then I also agree that the Orange order and the green orange order should have the right to march where they want to.

And I am leaving it at that.

Oh dear, 'The Queen's highways', straight out of the Orange Order's excuses book.

Clearly you're not grasping the point here so I'll try to dumb it down for you. Say the Mackems hammered us in a Cup final 50 years ago and decided to parade through the streets of Newcastle every year to celebrate this victory, there'd be hell on. Yes, it would be petty to carry out such a march and you could guarantee that there'd be plenty of people abusing the march and causing trouble. Should such a march be allowed to happen because people have the 'right' to march on the Queen's highways? Or should it be banned in order to avoid trouble on the streets of Newcastle?

I know its a silly scenario but I'm trying to make things as easy as I can for you.

 

[GM]

Blef's bedroom...

  You forgot my Michael Jackson poster dan. 

And the Rangers posters.

And the orange sash hanging from the wall.

[SEMTEX]

Seems like that photo could be rife for some MS paint style customisation...

[Blefuscu]

Blef's bedroom...

  You forgot my Michael Jackson poster dan. 

And the Rangers posters.

And the orange sash hanging from the wall.

Oooh and my portrait of the Queen, mustn't forget Lizzie must we?

[Decky]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8149217.stm

... at least they got their march

[ewerk]

They probably wouldn't like to be told and in typical N.I. fashion there would be political uproar, but the fact remains that public safety comes before any march and if a march guarantees trouble then it should not happen. I know the republicans have a share of the blame, but you arnt going to tell them to put their differences and views aside for a day, much easily to just reroute the march. Thats my point really.

But then you get to the point of British people having the right to walk down British Roads. I see where you and Ewerk are coming from. Aye it antagonises people, but the parades commission exists to decide where parades in Northern Ireland are allowed to go. There is part of me that would like to see them avoid Drumcree, Ormeau Road and the likes, but then I also agree that the Orange order and the green orange order should have the right to march where they want to.

And I am leaving it at that.

Oh dear, 'The Queen's highways', straight out of the Orange Order's excuses book.

Clearly you're not grasping the point here so I'll try to dumb it down for you. Say the Mackems hammered us in a Cup final 50 years ago and decided to parade through the streets of Newcastle every year to celebrate this victory, there'd be hell on. Yes, it would be petty to carry out such a march and you could guarantee that there'd be plenty of people abusing the march and causing trouble. Should such a march be allowed to happen because people have the 'right' to march on the Queen's highways? Or should it be banned in order to avoid trouble on the streets of Newcastle?

I know its a silly scenario but I'm trying to make things as easy as I can for you.

 

Not dumbed down enough for you? I'm afraid I can't take it any lower.