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Author Topic: Northern (and Southern) Ireland  (Read 7578 times)

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Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Northern (and Southern) Ireland
« on: Monday 13 July 2009, 11:49:08 PM »
So the 12th celebrations have once again delivered violence in Northern Ireland...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8148955.stm

My question is, how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican whatever you want to call them, areas? Now some of you might be horrified and jump on me with "they have a right to march where ever they want", but im sorry, that is absolute bollocks. It beggars belief that they are allowed to march through these areas when it guarantees trouble. A shot was fired today ffs, that could have killed someone and it could have been completely prevented. The Orange Order should stick to safe zones and Unionist areas where their marches will pass peacefully and where they will even be welcomed, instead of coming into Republican areas that will only end in violence , simple as that really.

Now some might argue that people still shouldn't riot, and I would agree that they shouldn't but there is a lot of history here and there always will be trouble, there isn't anything you can do about that, not in the foreseeable future.

I would love to here some supporters of the Orange Order on here try and defend these acts that guarantee violence. If they stayed out of Republican areas then all this could have been avoided:

Quote
Ardoyne
Shots fired at police
14 baton rounds fired
Water cannon deployed
Petrol bombs and other missiles thrown
Two officers injured
Van pushed at police lines
Sinn Fein blame Real IRA for trouble
Firearm handed to police after children spotted playing with it

Londonderry
Minor trouble at return city centre parade
Missiles thrown
Trouble in Butcher's Gate
One police officer injured

Armagh
Device explodes on Friary Road
Petrol bombs thrown
Two cars stolen and set on fire
Four people arrested

Rasharkin
Stones, petrol bombs thrown
Three police hurt
One arrested

« Last Edit: Tuesday 17 May 2011, 03:48:47 PM by Decky »
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 July 2009, 11:52:35 PM »
Quote from: Decky on Monday 13 July 2009, 11:49:08 PM


My question is, how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican whatever you want to call them, areas? Now some of you might be horrified and jump on me with "they have a right to march where ever they want", but im sorry, that is absolute bollocks. It beggars believe that they are allowed to march through these areas when it guarantees trouble. A shot was fired today ffs, that could have killed someone and it could have been completely prevented. The Orange Order should stick to safe zones and Unionist areas, instead of coming into Republican areas that will only end in violence , simple as that really.

Now some might argue that people still shouldn't riot, and I would agree that they shouldn't but there is a lot of history here and there always will be trouble, there isn't anything you can do about that, not in the foreseeable future.

I would love to here some supporters of the Orange Order on here try and defend these acts that guarantee violence. If they stayed out of Republican areas then all this could have been avoided:

Quote
Ardoyne
Shots fired at police
14 baton rounds fired
Water cannon deployed
Petrol bombs and other missiles thrown
Two officers injured
Van pushed at police lines
Sinn Fein blame Real IRA for trouble
Firearm handed to police after children spotted playing with it

Londonderry
Minor trouble at return city centre parade
Missiles thrown
Trouble in Butcher's Gate
One police officer injured

Armagh
Device explodes on Friary Road
Petrol bombs thrown
Two cars stolen and set on fire
Four people arrested

Rasharkin
Stones, petrol bombs thrown
Three police hurt
One arrested


I agree with you 100%
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Stu

  • People don't like it when you're in love with Dave
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:00:26 AM »
dexter, is it possible to have a general Norn Iron thread for these things? think there should be a thread for all the different things that happen so those of us that don't live there can see the catalogue of problems and issues build up during these 'peaceful' times. also, it might help to educate a few people who don't understand "the troubles" but can have a read through of the overall thread..?
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Quote from: gbandit on Sunday  4 September 2011, 12:40:10 AM
They keep saying their strategy will take several years to implement, I accept this and realise that in the future we may be able to hold onto players much easier if we manage to achieve success without burning cash to get there. There's next to no point in overspending until you're in the s*** to get to Europe, only to fall out of it for several years and potentially enter relegation battles. Be frugal, spend the money wisely but at all times keep a core of good players in the side and try the utmost to create a core which is reasonably stable for three-four years.

I fully expect to get slayed and slated here for being a w***** apologist and maybe I'm wrong, maybe all they care about is lining their pockets and f***ing us over but you can argue it both ways. The haters have a more aggressive way of talking about it but we'll not know who's right until MA's ownership comes to an end.

Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:05:59 AM »
Quote from: stupeedo on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:00:26 AM
dexter, is it possible to have a general Norn Iron thread for these things? think there should be a thread for all the different things that happen so those of us that don't live there can see the catalogue of problems and issues build up during these 'peaceful' times. also, it might help to educate a few people who don't understand "the troubles" but can have a read through of the overall thread..?

Good idea. Could start that with this thread. Ill just edit the title etc when other things happen. The last good debate on Northern Ireland was here really:

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,60811.msg1744543.html#msg1744543

There have been 1 or 2 since but they arnt worth reading.
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:08:28 AM »
Quote from: Decky on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:05:59 AM
Quote from: stupeedo on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:00:26 AM
dexter, is it possible to have a general Norn Iron thread for these things? think there should be a thread for all the different things that happen so those of us that don't live there can see the catalogue of problems and issues build up during these 'peaceful' times. also, it might help to educate a few people who don't understand "the troubles" but can have a read through of the overall thread..?

Good idea. Could start that with this thread. Ill just edit the title etc when other things happen.
You could have it merged with the thread about what happened earlier in the year aswell. With the two soldiers
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Alan Shearer 9

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:11:39 AM »
I'm Irish myself, my mother is from Roscommon. I have not been raised on the heavily potato based diet traditionally eaten in Ireland. I have come to realise that many of the indigionous people of this region have by some form of osmosis from eating and being around  many potatoes had their brains transformed into potatoes too resulting in high levels of aggression.

One of my best mates is from Derry and is moving soon and says he is sad to leave, I can't understand it tbh, having been there a bit there's a bad atmosphere, always remember from holidays to NIre as a kid the barbed wire and police stations and general bad s***.
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Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:16:35 AM »
Quote from: Alan Shearer 9 on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:11:39 AM
I'm Irish myself, my mother is from Roscommon. I have not been raised on the heavily potato based diet traditionally eaten in Ireland. I have come to realise that many of the indigionous people of this region have by some form of osmosis from eating and being around  many potatoes had their brains transformed into potatoes too resulting in high levels of aggression.

One of my best mates is from Derry and is moving soon and says he is sad to leave, I can't understand it tbh, having been there a bit there's a bad atmosphere, always remember from holidays to NIre as a kid the barbed wire and police stations and general bad s***.

Id miss this place if I left. It has a bad atmosphere and the past still very much haunts the place and everyday life here, but its home. Irish politics is one of my favourite subjects as well, couldn't be in a better place.
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

LesPaul

  • ^^^ See, Attack of the Clones isn't all bad.
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:19:16 AM »
Tis grand and peaceful down here though :razz:
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Alan Shearer 9

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:20:51 AM »
He lives on the border of Dunegal in the countryside, it's very nice there so it's wrong for me to say I don't understand him missing it or whatever, but even having never seen ay of the troubles first hand I wouldn't want to be around when things started going off. Where are you Decky, Belfast?
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Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:21:59 AM »
Quote from: Alan Shearer 9 on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:20:51 AM
He lives on the border of Dunegal in the countryside, it's very nice there so it's wrong for me to say I don't understand him missing it or whatever, but even having never seen ay of the troubles first hand I wouldn't want to be around when things started going off. Where are you Decky, Belfast?

Nah mate im in Newry. It is very similar to Derry, a largely nationalist community on the border. Ill be living in Belfast in September though.
« Last Edit: Saturday 23 April 2011, 11:13:46 PM by Decky »
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:25:43 AM »
Quote from: Oasisandtoonfan on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:19:16 AM
Tis grand and peaceful down here though :razz:

Ever had any bad experiences with unionists/loyalists, seeing are you are from the Republic? Or are they not really bothered?
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

Alan Shearer 9

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:26:49 AM »
I'll tell you I had a thing for Irish girls that kept me fond enough of the place to keep visiting, but that one who wanked off a bald c*** next to me was from Newry so it has soured my admiration for them. I'll still be back but likely not for a good few years now, need to travel elsewhere.
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Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 02:42:06 AM »
Quote from: Alan Shearer 9 on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 01:26:49 AM
I'll tell you I had a thing for Irish girls that kept me fond enough of the place to keep visiting, but that one who wanked off a bald c*** next to me was from Newry so it has soured my admiration for them. I'll still be back but likely not for a good few years now, need to travel elsewhere.

:lol: I generally find southern girls better than northern girls over here. Nicer accent anyway :pow:
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

Keefaz

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 02:59:56 AM »
Not that it has any relevance here at all really (:lol:), but been working on the ol' family tree the past fortnight and great-great-grandpop on my mama's side was from Ireland. No one in the family knew at all until last week, so it's been quite interesting.
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Decky

  • Not John McClane
  • Dembaaa Baaa baa
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 03:21:35 AM »
Quote from: Keefaz on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 02:59:56 AM
Not that it has any relevance here at all really (:lol:), but been working on the ol' family tree the past fortnight and great-great-grandpop on my mama's side was from Ireland. No one in the family knew at all until last week, so it's been quite interesting.

I always thought you were alright Keefaz, blatantly the Irish in you :pow:
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“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” - Sir Bobby Robson

Blefuscu

  • There's only one Alan Shearer! His dad is Alan too
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM »
Ardoyne
Shots fired at police
14 baton rounds fired
Water cannon deployed
Petrol bombs and other missiles thrown
Two officers injured
Van pushed at police lines
Sinn Fein blame Real IRA for trouble
Firearm handed to police after children spotted playing with it

Londonderry
Minor trouble at return city centre parade
Missiles thrown
Trouble in Butcher's Gate
One police officer injured

Armagh
Device explodes on Friary Road
Petrol bombs thrown
Two cars stolen and set on fire
Four people arrested

Rasharkin
Stones, petrol bombs thrown
Three police hurt
One arrested

The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own". And before anyone says "aye but you are from a loyalist family" I will say that I was damn annoyed by the actions of loyalists who terrorised the catholic school children who were trying to get to their school a few years back. People in the UK have the right to walk wherever they want to and the Orange marches are legal. 
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League Champions 4 times, FA Cup Winners 6 times, Texaco Cup winners twice, Charity Shield winners, Fairs Cup Winners, Anglo-Italian Cup winners.

Trophy Virgins? Aye, right!



madras

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 09:54:39 AM »
it's always puzzled me why they don't tell the orangemen. ok you can march if we can. and have a nationalist march maybe on the date of the founding of the republic.
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Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

2sheds

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 11:59:59 AM »
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM
Ardoyne
Shots fired at police
14 baton rounds fired
Water cannon deployed
Petrol bombs and other missiles thrown
Two officers injured
Van pushed at police lines
Sinn Fein blame Real IRA for trouble
Firearm handed to police after children spotted playing with it

Londonderry
Minor trouble at return city centre parade
Missiles thrown
Trouble in Butcher's Gate
One police officer injured

Armagh
Device explodes on Friary Road
Petrol bombs thrown
Two cars stolen and set on fire
Four people arrested

Rasharkin
Stones, petrol bombs thrown
Three police hurt
One arrested

The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own". And before anyone says "aye but you are from a loyalist family" I will say that I was damn annoyed by the actions of loyalists who terrorised the catholic school children who were trying to get to their school a few years back. People in the UK have the right to walk wherever they want to and the Orange marches are legal. 
So you'd be fine with the BNP organising a march through Bradford or Burnley then?
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"Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?"

Blefuscu

  • There's only one Alan Shearer! His dad is Alan too
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:19:00 PM »
Quote from: 2sheds on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM
Ardoyne
Shots fired at police
14 baton rounds fired
Water cannon deployed
Petrol bombs and other missiles thrown
Two officers injured
Van pushed at police lines
Sinn Fein blame Real IRA for trouble
Firearm handed to police after children spotted playing with it

Londonderry
Minor trouble at return city centre parade
Missiles thrown
Trouble in Butcher's Gate
One police officer injured

Armagh
Device explodes on Friary Road
Petrol bombs thrown
Two cars stolen and set on fire
Four people arrested

Rasharkin
Stones, petrol bombs thrown
Three police hurt
One arrested

The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own". And before anyone says "aye but you are from a loyalist family" I will say that I was damn annoyed by the actions of loyalists who terrorised the catholic school children who were trying to get to their school a few years back. People in the UK have the right to walk wherever they want to and the Orange marches are legal. 
So you'd be fine with the BNP organising a march through Bradford or Burnley then?

Go for it. Seeing that the BNP got into European politics in Yorkshire and Greater Manchester I can't see how that would cause a problem  O0
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League Champions 4 times, FA Cup Winners 6 times, Texaco Cup winners twice, Charity Shield winners, Fairs Cup Winners, Anglo-Italian Cup winners.

Trophy Virgins? Aye, right!



ewerk

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:26:23 PM »
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM
The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own".

So you reckon that a march by a completely bigotted organisation through nationalist areas celebrating a 300 year old victory against nationalists isn't deliberately antagonising? Clueless.
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ewerk

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:28:00 PM »
Quote from: madras on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 09:54:39 AM
it's always puzzled me why they don't tell the orangemen. ok you can march if we can. and have a nationalist march maybe on the date of the founding of the republic.

There are marches for St. Patrick's day over here, if they tried getting up the Shankill Road I'd like to see the reaction of the Unionists / Loyalists.
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Blefuscu

  • There's only one Alan Shearer! His dad is Alan too
Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:30:02 PM »
Quote from: ewerk on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:26:23 PM
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM
The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own".

So you reckon that a march by a completely bigotted organisation through nationalist areas celebrating a 300 year old victory against nationalists isn't deliberately antagonising? Clueless.

Nationalist areas?  :lol: Should they rename them "no go areas"? Northern Ireland is in the UK, the nationalists are as bigotted as the unionists ffs. Its only antagonising if you are simple-minded enough to let it antagonise you.
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League Champions 4 times, FA Cup Winners 6 times, Texaco Cup winners twice, Charity Shield winners, Fairs Cup Winners, Anglo-Italian Cup winners.

Trophy Virgins? Aye, right!



ewerk

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:34:50 PM »
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: ewerk on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:26:23 PM
Quote from: Blefuscu on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 08:57:52 AM
The majority of this violence was committed by Republicans who use the Orange marches as an excuse to cause trouble and blame it on the marchers. The problem is that a lot of people in Northern Ireland still have the mindset of "how on gods name are the Orange Order allowed to still march through catholic/nationalist/republican...areas". Hello! They are not areas that people "own".

So you reckon that a march by a completely bigotted organisation through nationalist areas celebrating a 300 year old victory against nationalists isn't deliberately antagonising? Clueless.

Nationalist areas?  :lol: Should they rename them "no go areas"? Northern Ireland is in the UK, the nationalists are a bigotted as the unionists ffs. Its only antagonising if you are simple-minded enough to let it antagonise you.

Yes, nationalist areas. Areas where the residents are overwhelmingly Catholic, what is so hard to understand about that? It's hardly a no go area but it's not advisable if you're wearing an orange sash and a bowler hat. I'm not saying that there isn't bigotry on both sides but organising that bigotry and then parading it through their 'enemies' area is a bit too much.

Let me ask you, why can't they stick to non-nationalist areas? That way there'd be a lot less trouble.
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2sheds

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:50:25 PM »
A better question would be who created the nationalist areas in the first place?

My guess is bigotted sectarian housing policy is to blame.
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"Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?"

ewerk

Re: "The Twelfth" results in yet more violence.
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:58:23 PM »
Quote from: 2sheds on Tuesday 14 July 2009, 12:50:25 PM
My guess is bigotted sectarian housing policy is to blame.

Well that's exactly what it was. It used to be that both sides happily co-habited in the same council estates but then with the outbreak of the Troubles housing was divided on what religion you followed, which of course only increased a lot of the problems.
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