Topic: Gaza....(the place, not the bloke)

[Newcastle Fan]

I support Isreals behaviour tbh. Somebody must someday end this endless war!

if you think the israeli behaviour will end it you are at best naive.

this war must somehow anywhere end. how should it end in your opinion. the isreal want that land. the terrorists want their land. so what to do?

You've got to be f***ing kidding me..Wind up surley.

I just don't know the english word for. sorry.

You really need to read into this a bit more.

[Jaypee]

Not that easy when the goal of Hamas is to remove Israel from the world map. The only solution is if more moderate forces gain power on both sides. With the current situation there's bound to be escalation. But it's really complicated all of this, so there's a hell of a long way to go beyond reaching an agreement of a ceasfire in this specific situation.

[Newcastle Fan]

Not that easy when the goal of Hamas is to remove Israel from the world map. The only solution is if more moderate forces gain power on both sides. With the current situation there's bound to be escalation. But it's really complicated all of this, so there's a hell of a long way to go beyond reaching an agreement of a ceasfire in this specific situation.

I don't think it'll be solved, not in our life time at least, it's not about Hamas anyway..it's always been like that, Problem is it keeps repeating itself and people keep forgetting about it and pretending its something new everytime.

[Toon's Taylor]

Excuse my ignorance but hasn't this holy turf war been going on since King Richard and the crusades, and it was in fact us giving Israel to the Jews after WWII that's sparked the current s*** off?

[Newcastle Fan]

Excuse my ignorance but hasn't this holy turf war been going on since King Richard and the crusades, and it was in fact us giving Israel to the Jews after WWII that's sparked the current s*** off?

Yep..its all your fault

[Adam^]

Well you are wrong, Israel doesn't want the land. Most of the people I know in Gaza/West bank don't want to destroy Israel either. Infact everyone I know in Israel/Palestine wants peace, no need for walls, checkpoints so they can just live their lives.

Hamas fires rockets due to Gaza being a ghetto, so Israel bombs more rockets etc etc etc. The only way to get peace from what I've read, and heard from people on both sides is for the Israeli govt. to stop holding all the cards and give the Palestinians some control over their lives. They will never give Hamas any control even if elections were held that the Israelis oversaw. It doesn't help that the western leaders sit back and harp on about terrorists when a state is allowed to blow up who it wants. If hamas attacked a military target it would still be terrorism, so they can't win.

"David Miliband, said the escalation of the conflict would cause alarm and dismay." - This is from the beeb, seriously if you are going to say something, say something that has meaning . The French seem to be acting the best, but I think they said before the ground forces are a "defensive" move, so they all seem to be sitting in the s***.

As for 3/4 of the world. Maybe some leaders may not like it, but I'm sure most people on here don't hate Palestinians or Israeli's for that matter. Obviously Israel is going to be covered by the US at the UN, so the most likely way to resolve the conflict is going to be vetoed, maybe Obama will change the Israel "$3bn" aid thing but I doubt it.

This is an interesting article on the beeb - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7809371.stm

[Jaypee]

Not that easy when the goal of Hamas is to remove Israel from the world map. The only solution is if more moderate forces gain power on both sides. With the current situation there's bound to be escalation. But it's really complicated all of this, so there's a hell of a long way to go beyond reaching an agreement of a ceasfire in this specific situation.

I don't think it'll be solved, not in our life time at least, it's not about Hamas anyway..it's always been like that, Problem is it keeps repeating itself and people keep forgetting about it and pretending its something new everytime.

I agree, the real problem isn't Hamas, it's just one of the "sub-problems" that are hampering the way forward. It's been going on for so long that new difficulties continue to arise all the time and the original problems such as what to do with the Palestinian refugees and so on grow larger and makes it even more difficult to resolve. But all the other factors aren't for this particular tread anyway.

[Parky]

Ground invasion of Gaza has begun.

[Adam^]

Considering where we have troops ATM and the number of civilians "we" have killed, I'm sure a lot of the comments in here could just as easily be aimed at us. </Devils Advocate>

Just to look at this, I suppose in the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan could count, but you didn't see US/UK troops dropping bombs on Basra/Baghdad. When the USA went in to Falluja, they gave the population time to leave (also time for militants to enter). Of course Britain has killed civilians in the past, but if the RAF started bombing a build up urban area, there would be quite a big outcry in this country.

[La Parka]

Considering where we have troops ATM and the number of civilians "we" have killed, I'm sure a lot of the comments in here could just as easily be aimed at us. </Devils Advocate>

Just to look at this, I suppose in the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan could count, but you didn't see US/UK troops dropping bombs on Basra/Baghdad. When the USA went in to Falluja, they gave the population time to leave (also time for militants to enter). Of course Britain has killed civilians in the past, but if the RAF started bombing a build up urban area, there would be quite a big outcry in this country.

Exactly. I am reading this.



Similar kind of war, whole different kind of action taken.

[Andy]

We should just go in and blow the s*** out of them all. Teach them a lesson. Steal some of their resources whilst we're there too. They're bound to have some rocks we can use or something.

[Andy]

I mean, can somebody tell me why we haven't just f***ing nuked all of these useless countries who just cause us problems all of the time? If they're not causing problems they're just pissing and moaning about their problems, which is worse in some cases. "OH NO, WE'RE GETTING KILLED BY THE NASTY MAN NEXT DOOR AND WE'RE TOO WEAK TO DEFEND OURSELVES" etc etc. Reminds me of the woman at work who's always got an upset stomach. Just go for a f***ing s*** or we'll wipe you out you c***s. That should be our approach. Look at how powerful we are compared to them for f***'s sake. Let's flex our muscles a bit. All these scientists are designing Nukes that we're not even f***ing using. Complete waste of talent.

[OzzieMandias]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/israel-gaza-hamas-hidden-agenda

[HTT]

If Germany had of topped all the Jews, we wouldn't be having this problem today. Its Hitler's fault really.

[Parky]

Considering where we have troops ATM and the number of civilians "we" have killed, I'm sure a lot of the comments in here could just as easily be aimed at us. </Devils Advocate>

Just to look at this, I suppose in the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan could count, but you didn't see US/UK troops dropping bombs on Basra/Baghdad. When the USA went in to Falluja, they gave the population time to leave (also time for militants to enter). Of course Britain has killed civilians in the past, but if the RAF started bombing a build up urban area, there would be quite a big outcry in this country.

Quite right there would.

The cicilian death toll is unnacceptable.

The bombing totally unwarranted on this scale and a massive overeaction to what essentially are a few very low tech rocket attacks that were so poor they didn't even kill anyone for 3 months.

[Parky]

Depleted uranium found in Gaza victims
Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:16:21 GMT
Medics tell Press TV they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Gazan residents wounded in Israel's ground offensive into the strip.

Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies.

The report comes after Israeli tanks and troops swept across the border into Gaza on Saturday night, opening a ground operation after eight days of intensive attacks by Israeli air and naval forces on the impoverished region.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned on Sunday that the wide-ranging ground offensive in the Gaza Strip would be "full of surprises."

A ground offensive in the densely-populated Gaza is expected to drastically increase the death toll of the civilian population.

The latest assaults bring the number of Palestinians killed to over 488 with 2790 others wounded. The UN says that about 25 percent of the casualties were civilian deaths - including at least 34 children.

According to Israeli army officials, at least 30 of its soldiers have been wounded since the start of the ground campaign.

Amid global condemnation of the ongoing violence in the region, the UN Security Council failed to agree on a united approach to resolve the crisis.

" Once again, the world is watching in dismay the dysfunctionality of the Security Council," UN General Assembly chief Miguel d'Escoto said Sunday.

According to diplomatic sources, the US blocked a Security Council resolution, with US Deputy Ambassador Alejandro Wolff arguing that an official statement that criticizes both Israel and Hamas would not be helpful.

The White House has so far declined to comment on whether an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza is a justified measure.

[Jaypee]

There are only two Norwegian medics in Gaza atm and both are known to be on the radical left side of politics, with one of them being a politician for a Norwegian communist party, so I wouldn't automatically trust what they are saying.

[Parky]

There are only two Norwegian medics in Gaza atm and both are known to be on the radical left side of politics, with one of them being a politician for a Norwegian communist party, so I wouldn't automatically trust what they are saying.

There is no need use DU in Gaza so it would be a mightly silly thing to make up.

I have seen phosphorous bombs being used in the BBc footage. Wholly indiscriminate weapon that burns through skin over a wide area.

[Adam^]

Still ridiculous how, Israeli armed forces kill 500 people, yet aren't terrorists, even though they are bombing/shelling a civilian area. Yet Hamas militants fire some rockets and are the terrorists. Its interesting how the media seems to miss the fact that being bombed is just as terrifying as having some rockets fired at you.

[Parky]

Still ridiculous how, Israeli armed forces kill 500 people, yet aren't terrorists, even though they are bombing/shelling a civilian area. Yet Hamas militants fire some rockets and are the terrorists. Its interesting how the media seems to miss the fact that being bombed is just as terrifying as having some rockets fired at you.

The media have been useless over the last week or so.

[Adam^]

Last few years imo. Even the BBC you an see it wants to have a go at Israel but it never really does.

That guardian article is very good especially this paragraph

In the first hours of the attack, Israel repeated the same messages to the wider world. Livni and the Labour defence minister, Ehud Barak, were widely quoted on international TV. The government's national information directorate sought to focus foreign media attention on the 8,500 rockets fired from Gaza into Israel over the past eight years and the 20 civilians they have killed, rather than the punishing blockade of Gaza and the 1,700 Palestinians killed in Israeli military attacks since Jewish settlers were pulled out of Gaza three years ago.

[Pip]

The guardian and the independent do a good job but they've always done so, in my opinion.

[indi]

The guardian and the independent do a good job but they've always done so, in my opinion.

Yeah, Fisk is the man when it comes to the middle-east.

[Adam^]

Shame no one really seems to give a s***, and are completely blinded by the Israeli bullshit.

[Newcastle Fan]

Shame no one really seems to give a s***, and are completely blinded by the Israeli bullshit.

I noticed