Author Topic: SJP development plans that never happened/future development debate  (Read 63289 times)

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HTT

  • tl;dr
SJP development plans that never happened/future development debate
« on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:10:15 PM »
1921 Proposal



A proposal  by the architect Archibald Leitch. The plan fell through, although the Leazes End was covered and terracing was improved to Leitch's designs.


1964



Council Proposals for a multi purpose sports centre at St James' Park. As well as football the new development would also host Boxing, Badminton, Cycling, Athletics, Bowling and Table Tennis. Also featured would be an all weather pitch and a supporters complex. The club opposed the idea.


1967







1967 proposals designed by the Heaton born Norwegian designer Ove Arup in which Newcastle United would share sporting facilities with the nearby Newcastle University. Capacity was proposed at around 63,000 - 31,000 seated and 32,000 standing. Also included in the plans was 2 gyms, 4 multi-purpose halls, 5-a-side football and Rugby fives courts, 13 squash courts, swimming, diving and learner pools and a supporters' club and restuarant.
The plan fell through when the club became reluctant at sharing facilities with the university.


1971



1971 plans for a 47,000 all seater stadium. The project fell through when the club couldn't afford the project. However, part of the project did go ahead, with the new East Stand completed in 1973.


1991



The first of Sir John Hall's Magpie Group proposals for a new 45,000 all seater St James' Park.



The second proposal with parts of the ground on hydraulic sliding screens, allowing for a flexible capaity ranging from 30,000 to 80,000. There would also be a shopping mall, theatre, arena and office complex as part of the development.


Castle Leazes










Proposals for a new 70,000 stadium at Castle Leazes just a few minutes walk from St James, in 1997. St James' itself was to be turned into a multi-purpose indoor arena. The scheme had huge support from Newcastle fans and the City Council, but the club eventually dropped the scheme and decided to expand St James'.

Cheers to Tom_nufc for the photos, still have them will add them to the gallery soon.
« Last Edit: Saturday 8 July 2006, 05:49:46 PM by Grassroots »
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

BlufPurdi

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  • Speaking truth to stupid since 2005.
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:15:57 PM »
Very interesting.  I like the idea of Castle Leazes.
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Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:18:10 PM »
wish they'd built the castle leazes one.

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:20:22 PM »
Wait until they raise the Gallowgate and East Stand to level 7 man...
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

NE5

  • In Zumba Bumba Land
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:25:46 PM »
I think not moving to Castle Leazes was tragic. People think tradition is important and are happy we stayed where we are, but personally I'm not bothered.

The location of SJP is the best in the country too ie in the city centre, but Castle Leazes while being a bit further away is still close enough.

My mate had views opposite to mine for years, even saying if we moved outside the city or too far from where we are, he would stop going. Which was bollox, he's never stopped going since he was a kid, so he never will now.

Anyway, we had a few discussions about this when it was a possibility a decade ago. I said if we had a spanking new ground, he wouldn't give a toss about the tradition and he would love a new stadium, with a 60,000 capacity, state of the art, round shape, the same height all the way round, maybe a with roof like the Millenium. He still said bollocks.

Now though, having gone to the Cup Semi Final last year, I suspect he's changed his mind. I would have loved us to play in a stadium like that every week.

I remember the plans for some of the photos from the 1960's. Rumour had it that McAlpine offered to build one of those stadiums for seat on the board, and/or x number of seats for life, or something. They were of course, turned down.


http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?

"He wants what we want and goes to the games for the same reason as we do, he wants us to win for the pleasure that brings.  He wants to build the club up and put everything in place to make sure we can maintain a high position once we reach it." - mick [aka Stephensons Rocket], aug 10th 2008

"I think Keegan would be a daft option, he's been here and done the best he could." - mick, 6th March 2006

"Ashley will do something Shepherd has never ever done, he'll spend HIS own personal money on players as the club will be his." - mick 7th June 2007

I think we've done well in the last window - mick, 23 Oct 2008

any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006

Unbelievable!

  • Adopted Geordie
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:26:31 PM »
Where was Castle Leazes (horrible name btw) to be built?

Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:27:32 PM »
Wait until they raise the Gallowgate and East Stand to level 7 man...

that'll only happen if we've been in the champion's league for a few years imo. that would take us to around 61,000 or maybe a little more and i think that is about right for us.

Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:30:01 PM »
I know that some of the ground is grade 2 listed but is it possible to raise the gallowgate to level 7 like?

Wullie

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Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:30:22 PM »
Where was Castle Leazes (horrible name btw) to be built?

Castle Leazes. :lol:

That's the name of the area mate.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:37:46 PM »
I would have objected to a move away from SJP and while I can see the benefits that a new ground could have brought I'm very pleased we stuck with SJP and expanded in the end, even at the extra costs and logistical nightmares the regeneration produced. History and tradition is very important to a club like Newcastle so from that sense it was very important to stay but moreover from an economic city perspective it was a must. Relocation would have put a lot of firms out of business and saw a big decline in that area.

Taking 53,000 people away from the city center on match days would have made a huge negative impact on the econamy of what is a very small city center to start with, that is why St. James' Park remaining St. James' Park was so vital and why such an option should never be considered or at least targeted.

The club should try to take advantage of that and get the planning permission and funds to expand the stadium further (if we wanted to) because more people in the city center on a match day means more trade.

SJP acts like a magnet and is rightly a focal point of the city so the club shouldn't be burdened with financing it, the city should contribute too as they benefit as well.

It happens in other cities where firms pay a levy for maintenence on historical landmarks and such and so it should in Toon.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Unbelievable!

  • Adopted Geordie
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:42:40 PM »
Where was Castle Leazes (horrible name btw) to be built?

Castle Leazes. :lol:

That's the name of the area mate.

Hehe... Never heard of, but have only been living here for 2 years.. I assume it is located at the other side of Leazes Park?

NE5

  • In Zumba Bumba Land
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:49:12 PM »
I would have objected to a move away from SJP and while I can see the benefits that a new ground could have brought I'm very pleased we stuck with SJP and expanded in the end, even at the extra costs and logistical nightmares the regeneration produced. History and tradition is very important to a club like Newcastle so from that sense it was very important to stay but moreover from an economic city perspective it was a must. Relocation would have put a lot of firms out of business and saw a big decline in that area.

Taking 53,000 people away from the city center on match days would have made a huge negative impact on the econamy of what is a very small city center to start with, that is why St. James' Park remaining St. James' Park was so vital and why such an option should never be considered or at least targeted.

The club should try to take advantage of that and get the planning permission and funds to expand the stadium further (if we wanted to) because more people in the city center on a match day means more trade.

SJP acts like a magnet and is rightly a focal point of the city so the club shouldn't be burdened with financing it, the city should contribute too as they benefit as well.

It happens in other cities where firms pay a levy for maintenence on historical landmarks and such and so it should in Toon.

Fair enough, I understand all of that, some of it is what my mate said. However, it's progress. Some clubs have moved, some haven't. Arsenal are moving, Liverpool would like to, Man City have moved. The new location is only 5-10 minutes walk from where we are already. You soon adjust. The cost of it also would have been a lot cheaper than developing SJP.

ManU have not moved. If the expansion of Old Trafford had not been possible, then they would have moved I bet. And there is the biggest single reason for moving. You agree with me about our potential if we ever start to win trophies. With the ground we have, we would never be able to expand it accordingly and seriously attempt to match ManU. Arsenal now have a bigger ground than us, and so would Liverpool if they move.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?

"He wants what we want and goes to the games for the same reason as we do, he wants us to win for the pleasure that brings.  He wants to build the club up and put everything in place to make sure we can maintain a high position once we reach it." - mick [aka Stephensons Rocket], aug 10th 2008

"I think Keegan would be a daft option, he's been here and done the best he could." - mick, 6th March 2006

"Ashley will do something Shepherd has never ever done, he'll spend HIS own personal money on players as the club will be his." - mick 7th June 2007

I think we've done well in the last window - mick, 23 Oct 2008

any individual or group resourceful enough to raise the £100 million plus that would be needed today to take over the club is likely also to be intelligent and resourceful enough to make a better fist of it than the current board - ozzie mandiarse 24th Oct 2006

Wullie

  • Administrator
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 09:49:29 PM »
Where was Castle Leazes (horrible name btw) to be built?

Castle Leazes. :lol:

That's the name of the area mate.

Hehe... Never heard of, but have only been living here for 2 years.. I assume it is located at the other side of Leazes Park?

Yeah, it's where the student flats are beyond Spital Tongues, near the BBC TV Centre.
Jeff's Garage - Cheaper than some other garages.

Nobody

  • That chick was like the Pele of anal
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:00:48 PM »
Wait until they raise the Gallowgate and East Stand to level 7 man...
Are there plans to do that?

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:11:42 PM »
I would have objected to a move away from SJP and while I can see the benefits that a new ground could have brought I'm very pleased we stuck with SJP and expanded in the end, even at the extra costs and logistical nightmares the regeneration produced. History and tradition is very important to a club like Newcastle so from that sense it was very important to stay but moreover from an economic city perspective it was a must. Relocation would have put a lot of firms out of business and saw a big decline in that area.

Taking 53,000 people away from the city center on match days would have made a huge negative impact on the econamy of what is a very small city center to start with, that is why St. James' Park remaining St. James' Park was so vital and why such an option should never be considered or at least targeted.

The club should try to take advantage of that and get the planning permission and funds to expand the stadium further (if we wanted to) because more people in the city center on a match day means more trade.

SJP acts like a magnet and is rightly a focal point of the city so the club shouldn't be burdened with financing it, the city should contribute too as they benefit as well.

It happens in other cities where firms pay a levy for maintenence on historical landmarks and such and so it should in Toon.

Fair enough, I understand all of that, some of it is what my mate said. However, it's progress. Some clubs have moved, some haven't. Arsenal are moving, Liverpool would like to, Man City have moved. The new location is only 5-10 minutes walk from where we are already. You soon adjust. The cost of it also would have been a lot cheaper than developing SJP.

ManU have not moved. If the expansion of Old Trafford had not been possible, then they would have moved I bet. And there is the biggest single reason for moving. You agree with me about our potential if we ever start to win trophies. With the ground we have, we would never be able to expand it accordingly and seriously attempt to match ManU. Arsenal now have a bigger ground than us, and so would Liverpool if they move.



I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with you in many ways, but SJP being bang smack in the city center, it's location perfect for inbound and outband transport and other amenities and facilities, acts like a cycle that the club feeds on. SJP on match day brings in the punters who spend money in the city center, this creates jobs and wealth which trickles back into the club in the shape of shirts and so on.

Being pushed back to Castle Leazes, or further out from the city center would make a big difference to the city's weekend economy.

That is one of the reasons why this club is so unique and of much more importance to the area than say Man Utd for example or Liverpool.

Regarding the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, their stadium plans obviously raise a question of how an we further compete with them and we will have to find ways to compete.

One way and perhaps the only way is further expansion. I still believe we could fill an 80,000 seater SJP for League games if pricing and demographic targeting was spot on, I also believe in the notion of where there is a will there is a way so I think we could expand to that type of capacity if we pushed for it. Obviously that would cost a lot of money and would involve some restructuring of surrounding land but this is what I mean about how the club should take advantage or use the importance of SJP to the City as a tool to push through planning and funding.

Imagine SJP raised level, all four stands? I seriously doubt there would be a more impressive stadium in world football, bigger, costlier and maybe more advanced aye, but such a towering monument bang smack in the center would take some topping in my view.

One for the future I know but when the last expansion was drawn up, plans for further expansion on top of that were also drawn up, they do exist. From what I've heard it involves the Gallowgate End and a floating tier for the East Stand. Although I've never seen those plans so it's all speculation but knowing they exist, even if it's just a drawing on a bit of paper, is very exciting.

In my view why build from scratch when you have the foundations right there already built?
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:13:08 PM »
Wait until they raise the Gallowgate and East Stand to level 7 man...
Are there plans to do that?

On paper, I believe they do exist, although for all we know it could just be a mock example of how the current version would look, raised and symetrical.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Ally

  • Retired admin
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:15:12 PM »
The expansion is unlikely to happen in the near future though due to the listed buildings behind the East Stand. Bloody students. ;)

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:18:06 PM »
They could be incorporated into the stadium or a floating tier could hang over them, maybe?
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:20:49 PM »
BTW for those saying forget history or tradition, maybe these pics may change your mind...

Ground Development Work - 1899





Levelling the pitch to reduce the slope and constructing a small timber stand.


1905 - 1930



Extensive redevelopment of St James' Park was completed in 1905, with larger terracing and a new main stand, which at the time was state of the art, containing club offices and boardroom, changing rooms, a players' billiards room and even a swimming pool. Capacity increased to over 60,000 although no limits were placed on the stadium and crowds were often above this.

This picture was taken in 1929, shortly before the Leazes End was given a roof.


1930s



St James' Park during the 1930s, staging an Athletics meeting, which it did regularly just before, during and after World War 2. The Leazes End is now covered.


Strawberry Place/Gallowgate Entrance - 1950s




1958



St James' in 1958 shortly after the installation of floodlights.


1960s



St James' pictured during the 1960s.


1970s



St James' during the 1970s, with the East Stand, completed in 1973.


Demolishing the Leazes End - 1978





In 1978, the large Leazes End was demolsihed and reduced. The hardcore supporters were transfered to the Gallowgate End, whilst the new smaller Leazes End predominantly housed the away support.


Early 80s



St James' pictured during the early 1980s.


Demolishing the West Stand - 1987

In 1987 the 82 year old West Stand was demolished to make way for a new main stand.

Milburn Stand - 1988



The new West stand nears completion.



The completed new stand in 1988. It was named the Milburn Stand after Jackie Milburn who died as the stand was being finished.


Barrack Road Gates



The Barrack Road gates in the early 90s. The building behind the gates is the old club shop. Behind that is the Milburn Stand.


Early 90s



St James' pictured in the early 1990s.


Building the Leazes



Construction on the new stand at the Leazes End begins towards the end of the 1992/93 season, which saw Newcastle promoted to the Premier League.


Building the Gallowgate





With the Leazes completed,  a replica stand was built at the Gallowgate End in 1994.


Ground Expansion



During 1999/2000, St James' underwent a massive expansion on the Milburn and Leazes to take capacity from 36,000 to 52,000.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:25:37 PM »
From this



To this



Who would have thought?

Why not from that to this?

Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had

Ally

  • Retired admin
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:29:22 PM »
That really is f***ing awesome.

Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:29:45 PM »
Believe it or not, we'd still have these photos and memories if we stay at St James' or not. ;)

Mums are the creatures that hold the world together and if it wasn't for your mum then you probably wouldn't have even ever been born.

Nobody

  • That chick was like the Pele of anal
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:31:02 PM »
What is that last picture of? Model of extended SJP?

Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:36:37 PM »
From this



To this



Who would have thought?

Why not from that to this?



a) The Metro
b) Housing
c) Money
Mums are the creatures that hold the world together and if it wasn't for your mum then you probably wouldn't have even ever been born.

HTT

  • tl;dr
Re: Stadium development proposals that never happened
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 5 July 2006, 10:37:37 PM »
Believe it or not, we'd still have these photos and memories if we stay at St James' or not. ;)



But would we be able to marvel at SJP from within knowing that this monument before our eyes has risen from wood, smell that sense of history, hear the ghosts of teams, players and feats past?

When I'm at SJP today I get an overriding sense of history and tradition, I can feel it, on some nights, always nights, I swear you can feel something in the air, a presence or something.

Ever walked down Barrack road in the wee hours of a winter's morning with mist, drizzle and fog clinging to the air? You can hear the crowd of eras gone by and that smell, I just can't describe.

Nah, you can keep your purpose built plastic boxes with no sense of feeling and atmopshere.

I'll take wor stadium any day, regardless of capacity or disrepair.
Wee Hughie - the greatest centre-forward Newcastle United ever had